In Episode 4 of the Sales Today mini series, Fred Copestake and James Michael tackle a growing tension in modern selling: the contrast between SaaS-led sales thinking and the realities of selling in CEMMT industries - construction, engineering, manufacturing, mining, and transport.

At the heart of the discussion is Fred's work on Ethical Selling and why ethics isn't an abstract concept, but a practical, tactical necessity - particularly in complex, long-term, high-consequence sales environments.

This episode challenges hype-driven sales narratives and asks a bigger question: are we optimising sales processes for speed and scale, or for trust and outcomes?

In this episode, they explore:

Why Fred felt compelled to write Ethical Selling - and why the timing mattered
How ethics fits alongside existing sales frameworks rather than replacing them
Why values, alignment, and conscience directly affect sales performance
The difference between selling software and selling solutions that must last decades
Where SaaS sales thinking adds value - and where it can fall short
The rise of SDRs, AEs, and sales jargon - and how it lands in traditional industries
Why ethical selling must be practical, tactical, and usable tomorrow
The importance of ownership, continuity, and trust in CEMMT sales cycles

Key insight

Ethical selling isn't about being "nice". And it isn't about abstract principles.

It's about being aligned, acting with intent, and selling in a way that creates value for the buyer, the business, and the salesperson.

When ethics are practical and embedded into how sales is done, trust increases — and performance follows.

Why this matters in CEMMT sales

In CEMMT environments, sales decisions often involve:

Long time horizons
Multiple stakeholders
Real-world consequences
Assets that must perform for decades

In these contexts, fast, fragmented, or overly mechanised sales approaches can undermine trust.

Ethical, end-to-end ownership of the sales process isn't old-fashioned. It's essential.

About the guests

Fred Copestake Founder of Brindis and author of Selling Through Partnering Skills, Hybrid Selling, and Ethical Selling. Fred has spent over 25 years working with sales teams across 38 countries, helping them move from personality-led selling to structured, collaborative approaches.

James Michael Founder of Justified Talent, James uses behavioural psychology and psychometric assessment to identify what truly predicts success in modern B2B sales. His work challenges outdated assumptions about personality, performance, and selling capability.

Connect with James

· LinkedIn: James Michael (Australia) https://www.linkedin.com/in/smesalesrecruiter/

· Website: www.justifiedtalent.com

Part of the Sales Today - CEMMT Sales Series

This is Episode 4 of a 5-part Sales Today mini-series, exploring how sales must evolve to reflect buyer behaviour, ethical expectations, and industry realities.

Subscribe to Sales Today to catch the final episode in the series.

Follow Fred: https://linktr.ee/fredcopestake

Watch this episode on YouTube: https://youtu.be/1or4nrGzOOs

Watch Fred's FREE YouTube Course: Sales Mastery for Engineers: https://bit.ly/Sales-Mastery-For-Engineers

Useful resources

Take the Collaborative Selling Scorecard – free Check how well your sales approach fits today's buying environment https://collaborativeselling.scoreapp.com/