RK (3:22)

Glad to be here.

Wes (3:23)

Yeah, I'm glad to have you, rk and normally I ask people, you know, what did you think about Bigfoot prior to the sighting? But you had a lot of weird things happen when you were growing up and I know we're going back to the 80s and this takes place in Kansas. Before we get to the main incident, tell me about some of these other weird things that happened to you.

RK (3:47)

My first encounter was back around 77 but was out of my dad's farm with my brother deer hunting. And I saw someone about 300 yards away. Cause a man in a ghillie suit. And I looked at him through my scope, and, you know, I had no intention to pull the trigger. Because, you know, I thought it was a man in a ghillie suit. But then I got to look at him through the scope, and I'm like, that's too large to be a man. I wonder what that is. I was young then. I was 17. So I, you know, I hadn't heard that much about bigfoot or anything at that time. And when my brother went over there, he found footprints in the dust. And he said that they was about 16 to 18 inches long. Because we didn't have A tape measure. But we measured the tree he was standing by, and he had to be at least 10 foot tall. And we said that was no man in a ghillie suit. And that that was a real brief encounter. It probably lasted maybe 20, 20 seconds, 30 seconds. But we heard Some strange noises in the timber that day. And what I know now Is probably what, as sasquatch calls, you know, a lot like what I know. You know who bobo is. Bobo fay from finding bigfoot. A lot like what he does on there. And a couple of them was like, what cliff does. Those quick chirping sounds like cliff makes.

Wes (5:10)

And I know the call that bobo does. I don't know that I know the one that cliff does. The noises that you heard, Were they After you saw this thing?

RK (5:20)

Yeah, after we saw it.

Will (5:22)

Yeah.

Wes (5:23)

And I know this thing is, like, Several hundred yards away. And you're trying to look at it Through a scope. And what was that conversation like with your brother? And then what was the conversation like afterwards. When you guys walked over there. And you're finding these tracks?

RK (5:39)

Well, he was at another hunting blind at the time I saw this. And when he came over to join me for lunch, he was telling me about the sounds that he'd been hearing over his blind. And I told him what I saw. And I was like, back then, People didn't talk about it. Because he's either seeing things. Or on some kind of drugs or something. And just didn't talk much about it, except when I told him what I saw. And he went over to check it out.

Wes (6:06)

Do you think that the creature Was aware that you were there, Looking back at it?

RK (6:12)

I don't think he did. But, you know, these things Are more aware Than what we. What we are. They're more aware of their surroundings. I'm quite sure yeah, it could be.

Wes (6:23)

Tell me, leading up to this main encounter, had anything else happened to you when you've been out there?

RK (6:30)

Well, I had two others before I had this one, because I had one. I was out in western Kansas, up around Norton. That's. That's the northwest corner, the state of Kansas. I was coming back from Hayes, and the driver of the car and the front passenger was pointing to something on the driver's side of the road. And they pulled over to look at it. So I turned naturally to look, see what they was looking at. And I seen this creature dragging a Jersey cow by its hind leg. And he stepped behind a. One of those big round hay bales, but you could still see him over the top of the hay bale. They had stopped and pulled alongside the road and was sitting there pointing at it. And after it kind of disappeared into the timber, the driver turned around, looked at me and says, you didn't see that, did you? Like, we're not going to tell anybody if you don't tell anybody type thing. I said, I didn't see anything. If you didn't see anything. He said, that's a good answer. The second encounter is I was down at Pomona Lake, and it was like one o' clock in the morning, was out there fishing, and I felt like something was near. You know, I just had that feeling because I'm a hunter and, you know, out in the outdoors a lot. I just had this feeling that something wasn't quite calm. And I stood up to look around and there's a street light about 150 yards away. So I had a little back illumination and I seen this big Shadow move about 20ft from me and just basically walk across my field of view. And he didn't stop. He didn't look around. He was like he was on a mission or something.

Wes (8:14)

And I know these are very brief encounters. Even the one that you saw that you thought was a huge guy in a ghillie suit, you know, at the time, I know it's back in the 70s and 80s, but what did you think you were looking at? What did you think that they were?

RK (8:31)

Well, back in the 70s and 80s, I, you know, I wasn't sure. I mean, like I said back then, you didn't hear too much about Bigfoot or Sasquatch because people didn't want to talk about it because, you know, people thought she was crazy if you. You've seen something. But this last, the last three all took place here in the state of Kansas in the, in the 2000s. What the one out of Norton was in 22. And then I had one on October the 14th of 26 or 25. Excuse me, that was the one out at Pomona. And I had the big one that everybody's talking about out of Clinton Lake in September 13th of 25.

Wes (9:22)

Yeah. And I know the most recent one, Sybilla Irwin did a drawing of what you saw and I'll post it underneath this episode. But if you would take me back to 20, 25. What were you doing and what happened? What'd you end up seeing?

RK (9:39)

Well, it started out that we, me and my fishing partner was dropped off because his, his girlfriend had to go to work in Lawrence. And so we was out there with the two pit bulls and we was out fishing on that Bloomington east courtesy dock there at Clinton Lake right after sundown, which was like 7:30 I think it was. I usually give sasquatch calls just to see if we can get any kind of response. You know, sometimes I get a sasquatch, sometimes I get coyotes, sometimes I get owls. And there's other times it just goes dead quiet. But after I gave my call, we got a very faint response. So I gave another call and got a response to that. Then it went silent. I mean everything went silent. You couldn't hear the geese or anything. And about 20 minutes later, those couple of rocks splashed down beside the dock beside us. And they were pretty good sized splashes, so. Pretty good sized rocks I'm estimating. So we turned them to the parking lot to see what or who might have threw the rocks because we thought maybe someone was up there screwing with us. And we seen the eye shine. And my fishing partner said, I'm gonna stay here at the dogs because I told him I was gonna go up and check it out. And I had my machete with me just in case it was something that, you know, I might need to defend myself from. And when I got up to the parking lot, these eyeshine kept backing up a ways. And we finally got to a point where he was about 70ft apart. And he stopped and I stopped and we sat there and exchanged grunts for about, I'm guessing 20 to 30 minutes. The whole thing took place over about a 40 minute period of time. But some of his grunts were real quick grunts like, some of them were real long like. But none of them felt threatening or dangerous. And I put my machete away and he lowered his shoulders and we just kind of sat there and running back and forth at each other for about 20 minutes, 20, maybe 30 minutes, you know, I wasn't watching my watch. And yeah, when stuff like that goes on, sometimes it just seems like it's taking longer than it is. I got a bite on one of my fishing poles and the bell rang, so I turned to look to see what my fishing pole was doing. And when I turned back around, he started walking away. And as he walked away, he was letting out a real soft whistling sound.

Wes (12:14)

So, rk, do you, when you walk up, do you see the creature and then you start grunting or it starts grunting and you're mimicking it?

RK (12:23)

Yeah, after we got within, like, we started grunting probably before I was at 70ft, but right around the 70 foot mark, I came to a stop and he stopped. And, you know, if I moved to my right, he'd move to his left to mimic my moves. And if I step forward, he'd step backwards, and if I step backwards, he'd step forward, you know, just totally mimicking my moves. And then, like I said, we grunted each other, mimicking each other's grunts. I was definitely close enough to tell that this wasn't an old man in a costume or no bear or anything like that. There's no bears in this part of Kansas.

Wes (13:02)

And I'll post the. The artwork or the drawing that Sybilla Irwin did of what you saw that day, and it'll be underneath this episode, but for the audience. Would you describe what you were seeing?

RK (13:16)

Well, this guy was. We measured him out because he was standing right beside a tree. We was able to measure him to a branch. We measured him out at 8 foot 3 inches tall, and we estimate between 1100 and 1200 pounds. He had a. His, his fur was like 2 to 4 inches long, different lengths in different places, but it was kind of like the color of a timberwolf. You know, the salt and pepper, the grays and browns and different shades, but it's like a timberwolf's coat. If anybody knows what a timber coat or timberwolf looks like, they have an idea what I'm talking about. It wasn't black or anything like that. Real broad shoulders. We guesstimate four to five foot shoulders, arms down almost to his knees. He kind of stood in a. Not a crouch, but a little slouch, you know, kind of like, you know what a Groucho walk is or Groucho stance, like the police use. That's kind of how he was standing. Like he was ready to respond and if something went down. But definitely seen muscular, his chest muscles and everything. It was warm Enough I couldn't, you know, it was like 55, 60 degrees out there that day. So he wasn't, couldn't see his breath, but you could see his chest rising and falling as he breathed and lift, moving. And got a real good look at him. Like I described it to a lot of other people, the artist rendition, she finally got it right when I told her that his nose looked like more like Morgan Freeman's nose than an H nose, like everybody thinks they do. He was a lot more human looking than I thought he was. He looked more like a caveman than a, than an ape. Definitely larger than a human, but like I said, a lot of proportions were similar to humans. He had the big brow ridge like the Neanderthals, a conical shaped head like a gorilla. But like I said, most of his features was like a human. He had no facial hair. His skin tone was like someone that had a real good tan with maybe a little bit of ash color to it, eyebrows, deep set eyes. And the only reason his eyes glowed was that was, I'm pretty sure was just because of my headlamp that I had on.

Wes (15:37)

Did you notice at any point during this encounter did his expressions change at all?

RK (15:45)

I didn't notice him that much. I was more concerned about watching what he was doing, like kind of keeping an eye on his arms and his legs. Because I knew as close as we were, if he decided to do something, there wasn't much I was going to be able to do about it anyway. But I wanted to be at least be able to react. People say, well, he was either really brave to go up there or crazy. And I said, well, maybe I was crazy stupid brave, but I was more curious and I think he was more curious about me.

Wes (16:15)

Yeah, I know everyone reacts different. I don't know that I would have reacted the way you did. Did it not concern you at all? You know, 70ft sounds like a long distance away, but you blink and this thing's on top of you. Did it concern you at all, being this close and interacting?

RK (16:34)

No, not really because like I said, I didn't feel threatened. But everybody says, well, well, you didn't feel threatened up there. Well, I've been in a lot of situations when I was in the Navy and, you know, I faced danger and I've looked it down the gun barrel and I just didn't feel any of that threat. I was in the moment and I didn't have that flight mode.

Wes (17:00)

Well, you're definitely a stronger man than I am. I must be a weak man. You Know, when I was a bouncer, I've had guns pulled on me on two occasions and I could tell you every detail about both of those guns, including the barrel. And I'm sure those two men could probably do the same as they looked down my barrel. And, and that's not bravado, that's just self preservation. But you know, I was scared. I mean, you know, it. I think shooting someone would be the worst day of my life in my heart anyway, especially over nothing, words, hot air, but it, you know, I was scared. Sasquatch, on the other hand, terrified me. And maybe I'm just a weak man, but the overall size of it, I mean, I could have, and I was armed at the time, I could have shot this thing, emptied the clip, it would have smiled and just kept coming. There had been nothing I could have done to stop it. Having said all that though, you know, this grunting over the years I've heard that and I've kind of come to the conclusion of my opinion anyway that that grunting is an acknowledgement. I know some people it comes across as being aggressive. I don't think that's meant to be aggressive. Still would have scared me. At no point during this whole time did he get frustrated that you were mimicking him.

RK (18:26)

He didn't seem to be agitated to me. He seemed very relaxed. And like I said, once I put my machete away in his sheath, he lowered his shoulders and his facial expressions. That's the one time I did notice him. He seems to relax. So I think he realized that I wasn't there to hurt him. And I was hoping that he wasn't there to hurt me. I think the worst thing anybody can do is to actually turn around and run from them because they're a predator that's going to trigger a attack response.

Wes (18:57)

I think for normal predators I would agree with you on that. Sasquatch on the other hand, doesn't behave like a normal predator to where they'll run into that chase response if you take off running. I still wouldn't. I'm with you on it though. I still wouldn't recommend anyone take off running. Ever gone back?

RK (19:17)

Oh yeah, I went back here. I was back here for the next three months almost every night because she was going to Lawrence to work and I was watching the dogs and that was a great way to do it because I love to fish and it didn't bother me when I was out there. I'd hear him back there because he, when he walked by, he'd let out a holler and just keep going. And if I caught a couple, two or three fish, I'd leave him leaving one up there by the tree where we originally had our encounter. And I'd hear him in the. In the brush behind there. And I. Occasionally I'd say, this is for you, my friend. And then I'd just turn around and walk away. After I laid the fish down.

Wes (19:58)

I get the obsession of wanting to go back. Did you. Was it mainly vocalizations? Is that what you're hearing, or did you ever see him again?

RK (20:08)

Since that time, mostly just vocal. I've seen movement that I thought was him, but I couldn't be 100% sure. I wouldn't even say I was 80% sure it was him, But I've seen movement that I thought might have been him.

Wes (20:22)

You know, I've heard many accounts of them grunting. There's one in particular I can think of where it was a hunter. I want to say he was in virginia, somewhere on the east coast. And this thing was. There was two of them. And the one that started grunting, he shot it. And even through his encounter, I didn't think that it was really being aggressive with him. And like I said, I'm kind of convinced that it's more of an acknowledgement type vocalization that they do when they grunt. What do you make of that behavior of you going down there and this thing starts grunting, and you start mimicking it, and it kind of hangs around?

RK (21:02)

Well, I thought it was educational because I got to. Got to see really, what he looked like and how he responded. And, you know, I'm. For a long time, I've known that they're not the monsters we humans make them out to be. I don't really think us humans are more monsters than the bigfoots are.

Wes (21:23)

Yeah, I don't think that they're the killing machines that some people think they are, But I think if you push your luck, you'll find a healing machine pretty quick. I ask everyone on the show, what do you think sasquatch is? What. What's your take? I mean, you got a really good look at this thing.

RK (21:41)

An offshoot of the human chain, maybe. Maybe a cross between, you know, something along the evolutionary chain between an ape and a human. I mean, he walks upright. He's got a fur coat. Everybody refers to him as a hominid, But I said he looked more human than ape to me, but other than his size.

Wes (22:06)

And I know that hominids actually do cover humans. So kind of what. I mean, you were thinking it was more human, like, especially in the face. And everything that you saw that day. It would be much easier to catch an animal than a human. Why do you think it's so difficult? Why do you think no one's caught up with them?

RK (22:26)

I think they're smarter than we are. But if you go back in time, the Native Americans, A lot of the Native Americans, said they used to sit down and be outside their circle when they had powwows and they would communicate with them. They had a running dialogue with them. Like, they would trade goods with them. The Sasquatch would bring them things. And, you know, even the. I believe it was the Potawatomi tribe had here in this location that a chief. His name. They call him Chief Bigfoot, but I forget what his real name was, but. And Lakota Sioux had. Had one they called Chief Bigfoot, too. So, you know, they go back and they say the Native Americans have had interactions with them for thousands of years. I forget. I forget which one it is. I think it's. The Navajo believe that he is a dimension shifter, that he's a. He's a spirit walker. But I've been doing a lot of research into it over the years, and I'm not sure because I have had times when I found footprints that I knew was a Sasquatch, and I'd be following, try to see if I could see, figure out where he's going. And it'd be in the snow, and they'd go out onto this lake and then just disappear. There'll be no forwarding tracks, no backtracking. If he backtracked, he was a hell of a good backtrack, Stepped in the same exact spots, but. And I've been tracking a lot of animals, and I didn't see any sign of backtracking. It just seemed like he just disappeared in the. And the bloodhounds we had looking for them, they just got to that spot and circled and stopped. Like, where'd he go?

Wes (24:06)

Yeah, I've heard of accounts like that, and I've actually seen pictures to where I had no explanation where it went. Or like you said, it looked like the. The tracks just stopped. And I know you've been a hunter most of your life. I wanted to ask you. You know, on the show, we talk about balls of light. Sometimes they make an appearance in people's encounters. Sometimes they. You know, has nothing to do with Bigfoot. They just see these weird balls of light. Out of all these years of being out there and hunting, have you ever seen anything like that in the forest.

RK (24:41)

I've seen balls of light, but I've never seen them that I know of anyway, in conjunction with the Sasquatch. But I've heard people say that they have. That they've seen Sasquatches with balls of lights around them or they disappear into a ball of light. I've also seen them, had people say that they've seen them walk into oak trees and disappear.

Wes (25:03)

Tell me about the time you saw the lights.

RK (25:07)

Well, I was up in. My dad's farm, was out one night coon hunting. And, you know, we're just walking through the timber trying to chase down the coon dogs, see if they've got anything. And these balls of light just kind of. Just kind of drifted across in front of us. And me and the guy I was hunting with was like, did I really see what I think I saw? And he says, yeah, you saw what I thought I saw. And we started describing what we saw, and it's like, yeah, a few minutes later, it comes drifting right back by. And it's like there was no wind that night that I can recall. And even if it was, it would have been going against the wind at one point. But it was a ball of light about maybe larger than a basketball. A little bit larger than a basketball. Kind of a bluish white light. He said he thought he saw it flickering, but I didn't. Didn't recall seeing a flicker. But, you know, according to the Native Americans, those balls of lights are willow wisps or something like that. That the forest spirits.

Wes (26:10)

Yeah. It seems throughout history and through different civilizations, they all have kind of a theory or opinion on what they are. And the Native Americans, it depends on the tribe you talk to. They'll give you a different story on what it is. And it makes you wonder. I've heard spirits, too. Some of the Native Americans will actually call them water spirits. And it's weird, you know, it's one of those weird things out there that no one really has an answer for. And I'll post this picture that Sybilla Irwin did of the creature that you saw underneath this episode. And I really appreciate you taking the time to come on. I've enjoyed chatting with you.

RK (26:54)

All right. I sure enjoyed it. And like I said, if you have any other questions, I've got pictures of the scene if you want me to send them to you.

Wes (27:02)

Yeah, please send them over. And thank you again. Rk. Next up on the show, I want to welcome Will. Will, thanks for being here.

Will (27:23)

Thank you, Wes. I appreciate it.

Wes (27:25)

Yeah. And you had this very strange encounter, it involved more than just a creature. I know it takes place in Kansas and it's a relatively recent encounter. How many years are we going back?

Will (27:39)

That would be six years. Well, almost six years. It was in the September to, you know, November time frame of that year. I don't remember exactly.

Wes (27:51)

Well, if you would, would you start from the very beginning? What were you doing and what happened?

Will (27:58)

Yeah, so I was. I was a route driver for a beverage distributor in Lawrence, Kansas at the time. I lived about four or five miles from the University of Kansas. And yeah, so at that point I was driving to work, which was exactly 3.3 miles. I had to look on the GPS the other day. It was over 3 miles from University of Kansas and I was just driving into work. It was about 2, 3 in the morning. Sometimes I get nervous thinking about it because it's just. It was very surreal. So I was heading to work and I remember the road I was on was called North 1800 Road. In Kansas, there are roads that are like, numbered, like North 1800. They don't have names. And a lot of the roads will not have names when you're in the countryside. And I. Tulsa, not Tulsa, Topeka, Kansas was to my west. And I was heading eastbound into Lawrence. And I remember that specifically because as I had turned on the road, there was some heat lightning in the sky. And I saw some flashes in the sky and it was beautiful. Some. Some yellow, orange heat lightning behind me. I could see it in my rear view. And I'm driving into work and I'm looking over and I see this. This bright, bright neon blue flash in the sky. And I knew it wasn't lightning, it wasn't heat lightning, and it was in the clouds. It was like. If I could explain it in a way, the cloud was lightning. I don't know how to explain it. It looked like almost as if the clouds were masking or there was a shielding device. So what I was seeing was UFO the sky. And it looked like it was trying to like, be like a. A cloud. Like Almost like the Predator movie where it's got the. The film over it, translucent, but I can see the outline of a. Like a. I want to say mothership, but it's a big, big ufo. If I would give us. I don't know how to scale it. It was just. It was massive. And I. I put two and two together. That, that flash was the UFO in the sky. And about 20, 30 seconds after I see that flash, this. This Dogman runs. So I'M driving on a linear road. There's no curves, nothing dead straight away and flat as can be. They just mowed down. The, the field was mowed down from the corn. And so, so it ran out in front of me. I couldn't obviously believe my eyes. And in one stride this, this dogman from, from running out of the field in one step. That was a sprinting step. It was one, one sprint. It's right foot was on the double yellow line and it left. It was all like one motion. It was so unnatural. So it left from the, the field to the yellow line up into a tree on my right. And the other thing about Kansas is a lot of times the trees are far from the road. But this one was right near a little stream because there's a little lake on the other side of the field. And it jumped into this tree right over this creek. And it turned around in one motion. It jumped up, it spun around and looked at me and it was crouched. It was so crazy how it just jumped. And this tree, this tree Limb was probably 20ft in the air. And it must, it must have been going 60, 65 miles per hour. It was so fast across the road. So fast. I imagine it was going faster than my car. I was going about 55. It had to be going faster than my vehicle. And it just looked at me and it was, it was pretty terrifying.

Wes (32:09)

Yeah, sounds like it. And I want to come back to that thing you saw in the sky prior to seeing this creature. Would you, for the audience, would you describe what you saw?

Will (32:22)

My. The only way I can describe it is Google the Amarillo Zoo creature. That picture came out after my sighting. But that it looks exactly like the Amarillo Zoo. If you type in the Amarillo Zoo animal. They were trying to figure out what it was outside the Amarillo Zoo in Texas. It looks exactly like that. Like to the T. Skinny, skinny. It was not super jacked and muscular. I say maybe seven and a half, eight feet tall. I was driving a Chevy Suburban. 1998 Chevy Suburban at the time. And I would imagine it had to be at least a foot and a half taller than my Suburban. Maybe two feet taller than my Suburban. And it had long arms, arms went down about knee length. And it had the almost like goat hinges at the feet, very unnatural bend. It bent backwards almost like an L at the ankles. Very, very fine scraggly fur. Like hair. It wasn't like a fur, it was like a hair. Kind of matted looking. It was gray and it had like a grayish skin. A grayish black skin. Almost like, like gray paint, like milky, Milky kind of color to it. And, and mind you, this is in the flash of a second, but I had my high beams on as there's, There's, There's. There's no lights out there other than the heat lightning and the flash of ufo that was it. You know, it's pitch black out there. But I was able to see it all in my headlights, and it, you know, was not menacing in appearance. I. I mean, when it, you know, it hopped up and spun around and looked at me from the tree limb, like, obviously I was, I was terrified. But it looked, it looked right at me. We locked eyes and yeah, I couldn't see an eye color or anything by the time I'm just seeing it in the trees and some of something, and it's still like, barely in front of me. So a little bit of his face is illuminated, but I'm about passing it at that point. But I, I couldn't see what eye color. There was no eye shine. You know, my lights weren't directly in its face either, like, you know, head on. So I don't know if that changes anything. I'm not familiar with wildlife, so. But yeah, it just, it looked at me. It was looking right at me and face, you know, in my face.

Wes (35:03)

Yeah. And I know all this is happening, you know, within seconds. I'm sure it felt like years. And everyone's kind of heard about Bigfoot. Maybe not so much Dogman. Maybe nowadays they have. What did you think it was?

Will (35:18)

So I had actually been interested in Sasquatch and Dogman. Well, initially Sasquatch. So I had watched. Seen a documentary about the Patterson, Patterson Gimlin film. I've seen that as a child. And I had some other stuff happen in North Carolina that I'm looking back. I was like, oh, that could have been a Bigfoot. But to keep on the Dogman thing, you know, I was, I was familiar, but I wasn't not familiar with Dogman at that time until, you know, maybe shortly before this encounter, which is kind of ironic is I just, you know, kind of got more fascinated. I think I discovered your podcast around the time or shortly after, I don't remember, but I was, you know, as a truck driver, as a route driver. I'm constantly driving some, you know, looking for new podcasts all the time. So long story short, I had through the grapevine and through, you know, TV and other, you know, like shows like Terror in the woods and other things, was quite familiar that they do Exist.

Wes (36:26)

I gotcha. So you kind of knew what it was. It's a lot different seeing it in person though, I would imagine. I've never seen a dogman, but I've heard enough encounters to where I'm convinced it's out there. Can we back up for a moment? That thing you saw in the sky, would you describe it?

Will (36:46)

Yeah. So I knew immediately there was an object in the sky. It was round. It was almost like an oval cut on a diamond. It looks like if you chop off the top of a NFL stadium, like the round, like a oval shaped NFL stadium. That's what it looked like. It's more oval. It was definitely not circular. It was oval shape and I couldn't see like the depth of it and so to speak as how, you know, how tall it might have been. I just thought it was quite long. You know, when it's that high in the sky, I don't have any field of reference, but it wasn't high enough. Like it wasn't, it wasn't a thousand feet in the air. It was, it was far less than that. Like it looked like it was sitting beneath the clouds and trying to mask itself with the clouds. Yeah, it was, it was. Maybe it's more than a thousand feet. I don't know how high, you know, how high clouds sit. I'm sorry, that sounds extremely ignorant, but, you know, if anyone's familiar with how high up, you know where cloud level starts. I know clouds can. Height can differ when there's storms in the area, but it was just heat lightning. There wasn't, you know, any rain or anything. I don't know. It was, it was definitely larger than a football field, but I wouldn't say much larger if you're gonna say like lengthwise, probably, probably is that long as. As long as a football field.

RK (38:13)

Yeah.

Wes (38:14)

You know, it's interesting, it reminds me of what Les Stroud told me he saw when he was filming Survivorman. Even your descriptions kind of like what he saw. And the size, he told me, was just huge. The, the flashes of light, were they coming out of the ufo?

Will (38:34)

No. So there was lightning behind me, which was yellowish orange in color, but this lightning was directly in front of me. So there's heat lightning to my west towards Topeka, as Topeka was due west of me, like immediately due west. And then I was heading directly eastbound and it was front and left of me. So I don't know if that'd be like north, northeast, northwest, whatever, whatever it was, it was, it was, it was definitely not lightning. Because I, I could see the outline. Like it wasn't just lightning. I could see the, the UFO light up, but it was only that one bright. And it wasn't persistent flashing. It was just that one bright flash, that neon blue. Totally different color than the heat lighting behind me.

Wes (39:25)

Yeah, I would imagine something like that would be creepy to see, but then to see this creature, that's very strange. I wanted to ask you about the face of the creature. Would you describe the face? I mean, was the head more like a German shepherd or a wolf or something like that?

Will (39:44)

It was very wolf like. It was sharp, sharp features and very sharp, sharp pointed ears. It had a very pronounced snout. And I kind of got this vibe from it that like, if it were to attack me, there'd be nothing I could do at all. But it definitely, it definitely looked like a wolf. For sure. It was. It. You could, you could kind of maybe throw German shepherd in there with some of the, the hair around the cheeks and so like the, the puff here on the outside of the face. But, but when it came to the snout, it, the snout narrowed and it was a very, very pronounced snout. The head wasn't super large. I, if I was going to give a, a size of the head, it would probably be a little larger than a German shepherd's.

Wes (40:42)

And when you saw this creature, was it on two legs the whole time? Kind of like a man running the whole time.

Will (40:50)

The only time it was on how to use its, if you can even call them hands, was when it spun around. And I can't remember which hand, but it's put it between its legs to stabilize itself as it like hunched over and looked at me as if like to keep it stabilized so it wouldn't fall off the branch.

Wes (41:11)

Yeah. The scary part is it didn't keep going. It kind of stopped to look at you. I think that's the part that, well, all of it would have bothered me, but that part in particular. And do you remember having a tail? And I think you said it in the beginning and I might have missed it. How tall was it?

Will (41:30)

I did not see a tail. I would say it was probably. Gosh, I wish I knew how tall my suburban was. I'm 6:2, just under 6:3, but I'll just say 6:2. And it definitely would have had another foot and some change on me. So I'd probably say it was definitely, I would say absolute maximum eight feet. I mean, I don't think it was eight foot. It might have been seven, seven and a half feet tall. Then again, it was moving so fast, you know, but it was definitely very tall. There was another experience I had in Kansas. This is actually after my dogman. I don't know what it was, but it crossed a remote road. I was heading. Heading down to do my. Heading towards like Americus, Kansas, which is like middle of nowhere Kansas. And this is early in the morning. Something crossed the road and it reminded me almost of like a mountain lion or a cougar, some. Some big, big cat when it's. It wasn't a cap, but the way it moved, how it was like getting ready. It looked like a cat getting ready to pounce when they get super, super low to the ground. But it was army crawling. But it looked as if a person was army crawling on their tippy toes and the tips of their fingertips. It was so unnatural. And I don't know what it was. I couldn't get it. I saw it in my truck headlights. My truck headlights were very dim. They didn't have LED headlights on the truck, probably. Thank God, because if I'd saw what it actually was, I probably would have freaked out. Because I was like, oh, no, here we go again. Because ever since my dogman encounter, I was paranoid. Like, I don't want to see anything ever again like that. Anyway, I didn't. And I was going to go turn around and see what this was. And I'm a firm believer in. In Jesus. I just believe the Holy Spirit was speaking to me is don't turn around, don't. Because I wanted to turn around and look at it. I wanted. Which is very bold of me because normally I'm not like that. I'm like. I seem like something like that. Like I don't want to want any part of this. But something in me was kind of intrigued after my dogman encounter. I guess something subconscious was kind of wanting to want to know and seeing the dog man so clear. But I couldn't see what this was hardly. I don't know if it was a Bigfoot or whatever it was. Anyway, I didn't turn around. Probably for the best.

Wes (44:01)

Yeah, it doesn't sound like a dog. I mean, I don't know what it was, but I don't know that I've ever heard of dogmen doing kind of that spider crawl movement or that army crawl movement. Sasquatch, on the other hand, there's been many reports of them doing that. And I know from your email and you mentioned it earlier that you had some things happen when you were younger and you kind of look back now and it makes you wonder, what were those things that. That happened? I realized it wasn't a sighting, but what were those things that kind of make you look back now and go, hmm, I don't know.

Will (44:37)

Yeah. So I lived with my grandmother in the mountains near Asheville, Hendersonville. That area, I'm going to be specific, is in Polk County. Very, very tiny. I went, lived on top of a mountain, maybe two neighbors. And there's this creek that ran through our backyard. I don't know if you can call it a creek. It's probably a stream, you know, 2, 3 inches deep. When it rained, it got like 6 inches deep. You know, this just low body water through our backyard. But every time I'd go to that body of water, I knew something in me. And I was 10 or 11 years old at the time, something in me told me, do not cross that creek. And I wouldn't for the longest time. We lived there for like two or three years. One day I did, and it was like a magnet. Like every other time, there's a magnet keeping me from going across. Something in me would not let me cross. And that sounds silly, but I didn't second guess it. And then one day I did. I had this massive, just knot in my stomach. I had this, this terrible feeling of I need to turn back, I need to go back. And mind you, this is only like 2 or 300 yards from. From the house. I would play basketball and we had this terribly hilly spot, but it was a flat spot. And then about 15ft from the flat spot was a hill. And I played baske there. And I was about 2, 2 or 300 yards from there, from that basketball hoop I had out there. And I was like, I need to go back, I need to go back. And I didn't. And I took a couple more steps and mind you, this is all going on in my head for about 30, 40 seconds. And then something in me was like, I just, I have to. So I have to turn around. I felt like something was going to happen. I. Like, I knew I was in danger, but there was nothing going on. It was always abnormally quiet up there, which I, you know, but like, like a lot of people say, thinking back to like, oh, that was weird, but in the moment, they thought nothing of it. So that was just like a feeling. But at that same house about. I don't know what the time frame would be from. From just those constant feelings to another point where I woke up in the middle of the night. This might have been a year later. I don't remember, but I woke up in the middle of the night and I had this little curtain blocking a window. Had this very tiny windows, very old home. And I woke up and something was watching me, but I couldn't see what was watching me. But I woke up immediately, looked out the window. Something's watching me through my window, but I couldn't see because that curtain was there. And I was going to get out of bed and move the curtain. Like that's how intense the feeling was. I wanted to know who's watching me outside my window. I couldn't muster up the courage. I like just, you know, just started to swing my feet out of bed and I'm like, I'm not doing this. And I spun my feet back into bed. That was like, like 10, 10, 11 years old, maybe 12 at that point. But that feeling was just so strong of some. Something's watching me and through my window. That. So that was weird.

Wes (47:54)

Yeah. It's hard to say. I mean, it's very strange that you had that feeling. And you know, usually whenever in the past when I've had that gut feeling, and I'm not just talking about like with Bigfoot, but when you have that gut feeling, like something's very wrong here, it's been right for me. I would say almost every time there was something wrong. Strange. Makes you wonder what was going on there. I want to go back to your encounter for a moment. That ufo. I'm still thinking about that. Do you think it was a coincidence, like there was two separate things going on there that you were experiencing, or do you think the creature and the UFO were related?

Will (48:37)

I 100% believe the dogman came out of that UFO. 100. There was no doubt in my mind. And it's kind of like an and knowing. And if I remove all logic, it feels just there's this, like this, this knowing. But I also, if I'm, if I'm, you know, going to use logic, I don't, I don't. It was just too coincidental, you know, I see this big UFO flash a massive bolt, not a bolt of light, but just illuminate this, you know, itself in the clouds. And then all of a sudden this thing is crossing the road less than 45 seconds later, you know, it seems a little too coincidental for me.

Wes (49:19)

Yeah. And I know there's no way to prove that. It's not like you saw it come out of the craft, but if I was in your shoes, I honestly, I probably would have felt the same way. I'd have Felt like these two things are. These two things are related. It's strange, man. I've heard of accounts in the past of creatures coming out of these UFOs, and I've always just kind of brushed it off. But I don't know. We live in a weird world, man. It seems like every day this world is getting worse and it's getting weirder. You know, normally ask everyone, what do they think Bigfoot is? But, you know, in your case, I mean, you saw this creature. It was pretty close. I mean, it was a relatively close encounter. It's right there in front of you. What do you think that they are?

Will (50:04)

I. So I personally think they're demonic, but physical. And my rationalization for that is I believe they're an abomination of some sort where some, some fallen angel or, or something, some kind of entity is having its way with animals, you know, in the woods, and they're creating these abominations. That's how I can only justify, you know, like you, you know, people hearing about Bigfoot appearing and disappearing and vanishing or turning into a ball of light. You know, that's the only way I can justify this dog, man, having that supernatural speed where. And it didn't even look like it was trying. If it was running, if it was going full bore, I don't see why that dogman couldn't run 100 mph. It looked effortless and graceful. Long story short, it's not natural, but it is physical. It's very, very real. I just, I chalk it up to a satanic or demonic abomination from the, from the pits of hell that is unfortunately been allowed to be loosed on earth on occasion.

Wes (51:26)

Yeah, I kind of agree with you. I mean, I really don't know what to make of the Dogman. You'd be hard pressed to really convince a skeptic or a scientist that this Dogman creatures out there running around biologically. It makes no sense. But, you know, I've been kind of going through the Epstein files, which I don't recommend. It's hard on the soul, but I mean, he was in there. That's way off topic. But he was in there talking about cloning himself, like you and I talking about going to the store to pick up milk. So who knows what's going on in this world, man? At the time of the encounter, did you get the feeling like this thing might be evil?

Will (52:09)

I, you know, I hate to cop. It's not copycatting because there's so many other encounters, you know, who have Said there's. If there's nothing they could do if it wanted to have its way with him and kill him. But that thought immediately popped in my mind. It was not super bulky. It did not look huge. You know, it didn't look like it was some steroided out wolf on two legs. But I just knew if it wanted to jump down and tear my car up and, and rip me out of it, I couldn't have done a thing. I'm a big dude. I'm six two, almost 26260. I power lift. The biggest I've gotten is 275. And I'm a large, very large man. And there's not a whole. There's nobody that scares me. And I don't want to sound arrogant when I say that I'm just like most people stay away from me. And I know in that moment there's nothing, not a thing in the world I could have done. I didn't get a sense of evil. I didn't get a sense of. I mean, I guess you can say it's inherently evil if you get that feeling of there's nothing you could do for one to kill you. But it did. It wasn't menacing, like I said, it was just looking down at me, keeping an eye on me, which is just almost like it wanted to know me, to know that it saw me. But it didn't. It didn't go out of its way to harm me. It didn't. It didn't look like it had malicious intent. But if it, if it suddenly turned on a dime and had those emotions, it could have killed me. Absolutely.

Wes (53:49)

Yeah. I understand what you're saying and I guess you kind of said that earlier, so I apologize for the. The question. Running into one of these things would absolutely terrify me. And it's such a weird mystery. I tend to think that they're demonic as well, but it's hard to prove that. It's hard to prove any of this, but people see it and see it more often than most people realize. And I really wanted to hear this account. So I really appreciate you coming on Will and sharing what happened to you, man. I enjoyed chatting with you.

Will (54:24)

Thank you for having me. This. This show has helped a lot. It helps me feel vindicated. I had a girlfriend call me crazy. I called her immediately after I saw the Dogman. She's like. She's like, you're crazy. You're running a lack of sleep. And I felt further vindicated when the Amarillo Zoo picture came out because then I had. I finally had something to show somebody and say, this is it. This is what I saw. So thank you for having me and thank you for your platform. That is just a blessing. You know, thank Jesus for you and the good work you're doing allowing people to just talk about what they went through.

Wes (55:05)

Thanks for the kind words. I really appreciate it. And thank you again for coming on. I need to look up that Amarillo Zoo picture he's talking about. I don't think I've ever heard of that. Anyway, that's it for tonight, everyone. If you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is wesasquatchchronicles.com and if you get a chance, check out sasquatch chronicles.com you can become a member and get additional shows. Until next time, everyone. And rec.

Will (56:08)

Looking for a white star.

Wes (56:18)

I'm fine. I'm a liar.

Will (56:48)

Sam Moving backwards.

Wes (57:34)

To leave the ground looking like a white star.

Will (58:01)

I. Sa. Okay, let's let it drift in like this. Slowly. Okay? Look like that. I don't carry my back Moving backwards. Sa. With my.