Loading summary
Transcript62 lines
- [00:03]
Rick Artistrain
It looked like somebody was bent over and had their head in the window of the deer blind. And it either heard me or smelt me. And he pulled his head out of
- [00:14]
Dr. Jack Trammel
the tent and stood straight up.
- [00:16]
Rick Artistrain
And that, that shocked me. They don't make people that. That big. The way moved almost as if it was gliding across the beach.
- [00:39]
Wes
I've never seen anything move like that in my life.
- [00:45]
Rick Artistrain
They were screaming at each other in gibberish.
- [00:49]
Wes
It sounded like a language.
- [00:51]
Rick Artistrain
And they were chuntering away, back and forwards, back and forwards, back and forwards. I know what a bear looks like and there is no way on this planet that what I saw were bears. Nine, one, one, what are you reporting? Jesus Christ. You better see him. Hello? Get somebody out here. What's going on now, sir?
- [01:22]
Wes
That son of a is about 6 foot 9. I don't know.
- [01:25]
Rick Artistrain
Do you see him now, sir?
- [01:26]
Wes
Yes, I'm looking right at him. Uh oh. Hi, I'm Becky.
- [01:33]
Rick Artistrain
And I'm Mercedes. We're looking for a guy, big feet,
- [01:35]
Dr. Jack Trammel
six, eight, brown eyes, always hides.
- [01:38]
Wes
We found him on our favorite podcast, Sasquatch Chronicles. Welcome to the show. Tonight we'll be speaking with Rick Artistrain and Dr. Jack Tremel. I interviewed Rick probably two or three years ago and I remember him making the comment to me, why don't ufo, paranormal and cryptid researchers get together and compare notes? Maybe there's something there, maybe there's not. And I, you know, I thought it was a fantastic idea. Rick was the state director for MUFON there in Virginia, and he investigated UFO sightings and reported abduction cases there in Virginia. And he created this group, Quantum Bigfoot Project, and it was to include cryptID, paranormal and UFO researchers. And also many scientists were welcomed into the group. And the goal was to kind of search for answers and hopefully provide people with answers. So we'll be going into that tonight along with their experiences. If you've had an encounter and you'd like to be on the show, shoot me an email. My email address is wesasquatchchronicles.com and if you get a chance, check out sasquatch chronicles.com you can become a member and get additional shows. Let's jump into it tonight. I want to welcome Rick to the show. Rick, thanks for coming back.
- [03:35]
Rick Artistrain
Thanks for having me back. I appreciate it.
- [03:37]
Wes
Yeah. And I also want to welcome Dr. Jack Trammell to the show. Jack, thank you so much for being here.
- [03:45]
Dr. Jack Trammel
I am delighted. Thank you.
- [03:47]
Wes
It's my pleasure having both of you on. And I wanted to talk a little bit about the quantum bridge Project. How did it start? If you would walk me into kind of the goals of it and where you're at today.
- [04:02]
Rick Artistrain
Okay. For your listeners that haven't heard me before on your last show. I'm retired law enforcement. I have been involved with mufon. I was a state director for about five years here in Virginia. Each MUFON chapter, you know, each state has a MUFON chapter, which is the Mutual UFO Network. And basically they investigate UFO sightings and file reports with the parent organization and in an objective, scientific type manner. I did that for five years I was state director for Virginia. And then I went into the paranormal realm because us in the UFO field I found there's certain crossover elements of paranormal. I mean sometimes, especially with abduction cases, they experience paranormal type of activity in their homes and around their persons. Kind of like poltergeist type activity, haunting, classic, haunting type of activity intrigued me. So I went ahead and transitioned to the paranormal and joined the center for Paranormal Research and investigations back in 2002. I've been with them ever since. And the CPRI, short for center for Paranormal Research and Investigation. They're very credible organization as far as I'm concerned, more credible than most paranormal groups because they adopt the scientific method philosophy and they approach it that way. And they're very objective, very critical and they look and they're basically data oriented and data data based organizations. They don't necessarily rely on experience. They're more interested in the data associated with the experience itself. So I've found them to be very credible. So I started working with them and throughout the course of that, my investigations in the paranormal. I started coming across, you know, certain cases in the literature where people involved in paranormal incidents start seeing these cryptid creatures like Dogman, Bigfoot, crawlers, that type of thing. And then my, my focus seemed to shift a little bit. I stuck with the paranormal, but I started to looking a little bit more into the, this cryptid field because again, like I said before, the crossover elements were there. I talked with you and I talked with you a little bit about it and some of my experiences that I had. And after we talked I got, you know, more in depth in it and I started to think, you know, brainstorm about a project that a paranormal group, a reputable paranormal group, which I believe CPR is, CPRI is, if they can get involved in the cryptic area, bringing their, their, their philosophy, their equipment and all this into the, into the fold, then maybe we would come up with some of the answers, you know, or at least develop new questions. That need to be addressed. Now. We needed some data associated with these sightings of these creatures to see if, you know, there's an environmental change with them. We have certain, you know, we have data loggers and equipment that might be able to measure that. And then we got into the orb phenomena. A lot of orb phenomena is witnessed around the Bigfoot and the Dogman areas. And that, that increased my interest because CPR had a case we investigated back in 2003 involving orbs that apparently went through a screen. We got a hold of the screen, had it now analyzed with by a radiochemist, and the results of that were extraordinary. But in short, in short, that's what, that's where we're at right now. And I've developed quantum bridge with cpri, works with a crypto researcher in his area of responsibility, in his research area to try to find some data associated with these things. That's everything in a nutshell.
- [07:47]
Wes
Man. Do I have a case for you guys. I talked about it on the last member show, so I won't really go too much into it. But this gentleman, he contacted me because of the, these cryptids on his property. So as we're talking, he how it all kind of started was he saw this gray alien kind of down in the bushes near his home and he didn't know what it was and he took a picture of it. In fact, he took several pictures of it and it does look like a freaking gray alien. I'm waiting to get all of his videos and pictures before I post a show, but he told me, he goes, you know, and he didn't know what Dogman was, He goes, you know, it sounds crazy, but I saw a freaking werewolf on my property. Ever since he saw that werewolf on his property, or Dogman, whatever title you want to give it, the activity actually started in the home and a lot of this weird paranormal poltergeist type activity is going on in the home. He describes seeing this weird black fog come out of his mother's bedroom. He's kind of an older gentleman and he's taking care of his mom in her old age. And he describes this weird black fog that comes out of her room and he claims to have it on video. But basically what he told me goes, imagine like a black electrical fog that looks like it's alive. It'll crawl down the wall, it'll crawl up the ceiling. And he goes, I don't know if this is demonic, I don't know if this is aliens, I don't know what's going on. I just want it to stop. But then there's way more to it than what I'm saying. But that's kind of the gist of it. And you do see with UFO encounters, alien encounters, oftentimes people will report paranormal stuff going on in their home after an event like that. What about yourself, Jack? How did you get involved in this? And what was kind of your interest?
- [09:49]
Dr. Jack Trammel
So, for those who are just meeting me, I'm a sociologist. I work at Mount St. Mary's University in Maryland. And I'm really interested in the supernatural and in the unexplained. And so I teach a lot of courses related to that, and I've done a lot of research related to that. So I'm kind of like what you would call a sociologist of the unexplained. And for me, what Rick is talking about with the quantum bridge dovetails very nicely with some theories I'm evolving as a result of my research about people experiencing these things. And by the way, I just saw before we got on air that there's a report that says 3.5 million Americans claim that they have had an encounter or have been abducted by aliens. And I still can't believe that number. I'm going to check it out, but that's mind blowing that one out of every 100Americans has experienced that or claim to have experienced that. And so I look at it through the lens of three things. The physical, the psychological, and the phenomenal. And things like spiritual belief and religion fall into that phenomenal area. And what people believe has is tantamount to me, because as a sociologist, if people believe something, then sociologically speaking, it's true, because they're going to arrange their life as if it were true, and they're going to live their life as if it were true. And so it becomes true in that sense. And so as I've developed my studies of the supernatural, including cryptids and aliens and all kinds of things in addition to just the classic what people would call paranormal, I've really become to appreciate that the science is only a teeny part of the equation. And if people believe they've experienced something, whether they did or not in a scientific way is less important to me than it used to be. And it's more important to me that they're living their lives as if it was something that happened.
- [11:58]
Wes
Jack, did you ever have an experience that kind of led you down this path?
- [12:03]
Dr. Jack Trammel
It's funny, I tell my students a story about when I was a kid in New York City, living in an old Crumbling brownstone. My parents were not very well off at all. We were very poor. And so we were living in this creepy old brownstone on the seventh floor. And I would always see a woman come into my room late at night. In white, of course. There you go stereotype. The classic woman in white. And I never was scared. She looked like she was taking care of me, Almost like an angelic kind of feeling to it. And when I told my mother about this, I got a spanking and was told that was her coming in to check on me and never talk about it again. And so early in my life, I was shamed into not asking questions about things like that. So when I grew up and became a sociologist, I decided, nobody's going to tell me I can't study this anymore and be interested in it. And so many other things have happened to me in my life. But that's sort of like the. What would you call it, the founding story of how I got interested as a very young child and then pursued it later as an adult.
- [13:10]
Wes
Yeah. And I didn't realize the woman in white is more common than I originally thought. The very first time I heard about it was actually from a Bigfoot researcher. And he was a hardcore. This is an ape, flesh and blood. There's nothing odd about this. And I remember around a campfire one night, he was telling me about running into this woman in white. And it was weird. He was kind of like describing a spirit. And if you look into that Ape canyon attack that actually happened in Washington back in the 20s, Fred Beck talks about the woman in white. In fact, they found the mind because of the woman in white. He describes a spirit. Then shortly after that, everyone knows the rest of the story that, you know, they were attacked by these quote unquote apes in Ape Canyon. But that whole encounter of Fred Beck and those miners is a lot more strange than most people think. Have you ever looked into that?
- [14:09]
Rick Artistrain
Yeah, I've read things about the encounter itself and some side notes about it that weren't readily available to the public. There were a lot of paranormal type events that occurred around that incident. The woman in white, they kept seeing, you know, light phenomena, that type of thing before. And even I don't know if it happened after the incident because they fled. But before the incident, that was. That was their claim. And it wasn't readily. That information wasn't really put out. Readily put out there because it didn't meet the narrative, I guess. But yeah, there's a lot more that went on with that whole event than Most people realize.
- [14:49]
Dr. Jack Trammel
And, wes, if I can add something, the woman in white motif Is almost a misnomer, in my opinion, because what people may be seeing Is some kind of entity or aura that has no color at all. And it may be that it is manifesting Through a part of the visual spectrum in the ultraviolet, perhaps, or where there wouldn't be any color. You're not going to see a woman in red. You're not going to see a woman in blue. And that. That aura comes closest to people thinking, well, it's glowing in the dark. Or I see it, you know, I see it there. I just. It doesn't have any color. And so I think maybe it's a misnomer to call it the woman in white, because it may be that people are seeing something that's in a different part of the visual spectrum.
- [15:42]
Wes
Yeah, I think in most cases. I would agree with you on that, Jack. Like I was telling you, that bigfoot researcher, we were sitting around a campfire, and he had kind of gotten lost in the woods, and he describes coming across this woman in white. And based on his description, I would agree with you. It just seemed like something bright. I don't know that I would call it white. He did, but I've heard other accounts where I think your theory applies. I've also heard accounts where that theory doesn't apply. I remember had these two brothers on, and they talked about this homeless woman in white they would see all the time, and she would cross over their property and never speak to them. They would try and talk to her, but she would never speak to them. But they would always bring her up, and they would see her during the daytime, and it never clicked with them that she was never dirty. You know, they're wearing snake boots, and they have mud up to their knees. But it never clicked with them why she was never dirty. The reason why they thought she was homeless Is because none of her clothes fit her. And that's a whole nother story. But I understand where you're coming from, Jack. Tell me about different events that have happened with this group. I. I know there's one in particular with the lights.
- [17:01]
Rick Artistrain
Sure. Pre quantum bridge, or from, you know, before moving into the present or.
- [17:11]
Wes
I know from your email, you'd brought up harley. I think he's a bigfoot researcher down south. I want to say Tennessee.
- [17:19]
Rick Artistrain
Yeah, Harley. Yeah. He's the. He's an investigator in eastern tennessee that I'm working with. He. Harley's a good guy. He's very enthusiastic. He's very he's very much a go getter, but he's, you know, in the beginning was very inexpensive, inexperienced with regard to this type of thing. I think you had him on your show at one point where he related or related an experience he had in Virginia at a work site where he actually saw these things and actually recorded vocals. Well, ever since that point, he became very, very interested in this and started doing some research in, in eastern Tennessee. He, he started seeing things and experiencing things that, you know, you know, I had initially, I had some doubts about until he started inviting other independent researchers on these treks with him. And they were experiencing these things and seeing the, you know, Bigfoot type creatures and so forth. And my interest peaked at that point and I started to work with him. I said, well, it's a good possibility we might be able to get some, something out of this particular area. So we started working with him. I've been out there to the Cosby area, Cosby East Tennessee, maybe five or six times and experienced something on three, at least three different occasions there. I have never seen anything as far as Bigfoot, Dogman, any type of cryptid or anything like that. But I have heard screams and roars that I couldn't readily explain, especially the roar that I heard back in July of 24. But. And I've also seen unusual light phenomena out there. I had a thermal imager and I was scanning the wood line around this particular cemetery, which seems to be the focal point of this activity. We go and sit up at the cemetery and we just sit there, listen and record and, you know, observe. And I saw this light, the pinpoint of light, white light. Well, it appeared white in the thermal because I had it on white heat setting and it was going through the wood line. Appeared to be intelligent, intelligently operated. And I would take the thermal down and I wouldn't see it. I put the thermal back up to my eye and it would appear so apparently it was, whatever it was, was invisible to the eye, but visible to the, in the heat spectrum. So, you know, I thought this was interesting. And I was following it and Harley was standing next to me and I gave the thermal to Harley. Well, he asked for it and he said, let me take a look. I gave it to him. He looked at it and it was approaching this dirt road which led from the road to the cemetery itself. And he says that whatever it was, the slight transitioned into a, a some type of creature, upright creature, exhibiting heat. And it took two or three steps across the road and went up an incline toward a A knoll on the other side. I, you know, shocked me when he said that. I said, well, let me see. And by the time I got the thermal, I didn't see anything. But about a minute later, up on the knoll, I actually heard a scream, rather loud scream, which lasted maybe two to three seconds. I couldn't identify the scream, but later it sounded primate. Sounded like a primate. If you can recall what a chimpanzee sounds like when it screams, that's what this particular scream sounded like. And I didn't know of any other wildlife in the area that could produce that type of sound. I may be wrong, but right after this scream, Almost immediately after the scream, I heard what sounded like a barn owl hoot three times right at the very end. I thought that was interesting. And then I started reading and watching your show and looking at past cases, and it seems like this owl sound is very common with bigfoot phenomena. And that just sparked my interest. And I continued going out there with him. We've said we found unusual tree structures. We also, I think we found a. What looks like a, you know, very footprint, but wasn't very discernible because it was on an incline. It was slid down the. The. Whatever step on this particular spot slid down and kind of disoriented or, you know, the print itself. And I did cast it, but it's, you know, somewhat. It can't very. You can't see it very clearly even in the cast. We've, you know, I've heard a roar. Like I said, Last July 24, we were outside at the cemetery at night. I was. We were sitting here doing the observation surveillance, and on adjacent ridge, probably straight line distance, maybe a mile and a half, two miles. I heard this. What sounded like a roar sounded like a T. Rex, like, Sounded like a T. Rex from Jurassic Park. And I just. It gave me chill bumps. The hair stood up on the back of my neck. And we just looked at each other. And I said, you know, that sounded threatening. And the roar itself sounded like it had rage to it. And I told him, I said, well, let's. Because we had. I had my vehicle there. I had the tailgate up, and I had a tarp over the back of the tailgate set up and everything in case it rained. And I said, let's take everything down and put everything in. And if we have to make a quick exit, we can just hop in the vehicle and leave, because we will point it toward the, you know, road, that road that leads to the road, you know, adjacent road. So we Make a quick exit. It bothered me. It really did. I didn't, I, I, Unless there was somebody on that hill with a loudspeaker playing the T. Rex sound, you know, from the Jurassic park movie. I, I can't, I can't see someone doing that. So that was perplexing to me. And some, somewhat, somewhat bothered me a little bit. But, you know, we continued investigating and he eventually he reported to me that he actually saw a dogman type creature when he was hiking up on the hilltop near that ridge. And he said the dogman creature came out, looked at him from behind a tree, and he took off running. And he said, whatever it was, paste him in the W to his right. And he couldn't see it anymore, but he could hear, actually hear the footfalls. And it paced him all the way out, ran with him all the way out to the trailhead, but it stopped at a creek. I guess it couldn't jump the creek or whatever. But he looked at that dogman creature, and he was somewhat upset about that. And, you know, he's, he had a lot of experiences at home, too, some paranormal stuff. Something was banging on the side of his house or in a shed. And he lives in somewhat of a residential area, so I can't see these things coming down and doing that without being readily seen. He had a lot of experiences, some paranormal, and that's, that's what, you know, keyed me in to work with him a bit more.
- [24:27]
Dr. Jack Trammel
Wes, since you had mentioned that black crawling like thing earlier, Rick, you should also throw in that one of our investigators, more recently when we were there, saw a black mass with indistinct edges around it moving across the ground. And with the naked eye, there's, there was nothing there, but he saw that. Am I describing that correctly, Rick?
- [24:54]
Rick Artistrain
Yeah, he, our, one of our members is an archaeologist, and I'm not gonna mention his name because I don't know if he wanted me to do that. But very credible guy, very good guy, and he's very objective. He's not prone to fantasy or anything like that. He was sitting in my rv, which was set up down there at the cemetery, and the RV was facing the cemetery itself. He jumped up and said, did you see that? And I said, no. He says something just moved across the cemetery. And he was, he looked a bit, he looked visibly shaken by it a little bit. He says he, he. We went outside, looked around. We couldn't find anything. And he says it was large, dark, no discernible edges to it. It was just a dark mass. That crossed in front of him from right to left. We start to think about it, and he's. He had a iWatch or Apple Watch, rather. And in the Apple watch, there's a biosensor that measures heartbeat. His heartbeat at that particular moment jumped from 62 to maybe 120 some beats per minute in that short period, second or two. So he. Something happened that affected him by, you know, affected him physically. So. Yeah, that's. That's true, Jack. That was an interesting encounter that we can't explain to this day. Was he seeing things? I don't think so, but yeah.
- [26:29]
Wes
Yeah. It'd be kind of hard to fake your heartbeat, like, doubling in speed. The. The light that you saw, how big was it?
- [26:37]
Rick Artistrain
Through my image, thermal imager is probably. It was just a pinpoint of light. It wasn't. I couldn't see any distinct large mass to it. It was just a pinpoint of light, and I was moving. That's all I could see at the point. At that point, I had the settings on white hot, which would have. You know, it would have shown up white. I didn't have it. I didn't switch it at that time. I was just more concerned about what it was I was looking at. I didn't know. I thought it might have been, you know, somebody walking through the woods or something, but there were no. There was no sound associated with it. The distance I would guesstimate would probably be 50 to 70 yards, maybe. And, you know, then when what Harley claims to have seen, you know, that just was kind of icing on the cake. And, you know, I had some doubt about what he might have seen. But then when he said it went up the hill toward a specific knoll. And from that particular knoll, I heard that scream and those owl sounds. So something happened. I didn't get a chance to look at it. And at this point in time, I don't doubt what Harlan said or saw.
- [27:46]
Wes
So I find it interesting that you guys are using thermals to actually capture these lights. It seems like every time I've tried to use a thermal or I've talked to other people that have used a thermal, you never see them when viewing it through the thermal. The minute you take your eye off the thermal camera, bam, there's a light. But that's not necessarily set in stone. I remember one time I was out there with a buddy of mine, and he was looking through the thermal, and he's looking up at the sky, and he's like, oh, wow, check that out. It's a ufo And I remember looking up and there was nothing there. When I looked through the thermal, I was like, oh, wow, there's actually something there. It's very strange in this genre, you know, after I captured the. The very first time, when I captured that light, it was just this pretty ball of light. I captured it on a night vision camera, and I don't know what they are. I remember I had a. An Aboriginal elder from Australia contact me, and he said they travel through the lights. And I thought this guy was insane. I was like, okay, I'm sure there's medication for what you have. I, you know, I don't know about all that. And he, and he told me, he goes, if you look at the light, you'll see a face in it, or you'll see faces in it. And I mentioned that one time on the air, and one of my members actually took still shots of the ball of light that we captured. And it did look like there was a freaking face in the ball of light. And I know pareidolia, you know, if you look at the bushes long enough, you'll see 20 Sasquatches. But this kind of stood out to me. I kind of looked at it and was like, oh, wow, that actually looks like a face. What's your theory on the lights, Jack?
- [29:36]
Dr. Jack Trammel
It's confusing because I've had different kinds of light experiences, including seeing faces inside a light. And I've shown those pictures to my CPRI colleagues who say it's paradoia and it's matrixing, but I have those. If you ever want to take a look at them, they clearly look like faces to me. But then I've also seen some lights that clearly have something like a plasma trail around them, and they have intentionality. They stop and start and move as if they are trying to make decisions consciously about where to go and not go. Or maybe they're controlled by somebody that has that intention. And then I've seen lights that are more like auras that almost seem to be associated with other events, like some kind of, you know, auditory kind of event happening shortly thereafter, or seeing something visual that you can't explain. And so, as far as cryptids go, I have limited experience with this, but I do think there's one story in my past where there has been a light, and I was being followed through the woods. And I don't know if I've ever told Rick this story. My kid left a blanket on the top of a mountaintop, and we were on a hotel because it was snowing furiously. And I. I. My wife made me go back and hike a mile and a half up the top of the mountain in a snowstorm to get the little kids blanket because they weren't going to go to sleep without it. And when I got up to the top of the mountain, I was hearing strange kind of animal noises that I don't know how to describe. And I assumed it was a bear. Plenty of bear in that country. And it started following me the way down. And I didn't have any equipment with me. I just. I would freezing my butt off to begin with. And I just wanted to get back to the car. But it. It mirrored my movement all the way down the mountain. And when I got to the bottom of the mountain, I was close enough to my car that I felt like I could run there and get in if necessary. And I turned around to confront when I did see this kind of weird light on the mountain further up the trail. And it was moving in and out of the trees indistinctly, but it was clearly there. And it's snowing like crazy. So it's not. It's not something that would be reflecting from moonlight or something like that. And I'm like, whatever it is, I'm out of here. And I got in the car and left. But I just assumed that was a bear. I had never connected the fact that it might be something else and that that light might be tied to that.
- [32:34]
Wes
Yeah, that's really interesting, Jack, that not only did you see the light, but it was mirroring your movements as you came down the mountain. And you hear eyewitnesses say that, you know, like, when they stop, it stops. When it. When they move, it moves. And I'll say over 90% of the time, they don't see what it is. And I've said this a million times on the show. I would say about 10 years ago, maybe 11 or 12 years ago, is when I really started becoming interested in the lights, Because I would interview people who would have these things on their property, these creatures. They would talk about the bigfoot encounter. They would talk about what's going on on the property, and they always seem to end the conversation with, oh, and by the way, I'm also seeing these weird lights that show up. And it wasn't until about half a dozen times where I stopped and go, well, wait a minute. Tell me about these lights. Bigfoot aside, tell me about these lights. And people would go on and on about seeing these lights, and they seemed to show up about the same time the creature showed up. Most of the time, though, people won't see the lights and the creature at the same time. What is your theory, Rick, on why people are seeing these lights in these cryptid encounters?
- [33:53]
Rick Artistrain
To be quite honest, I don't know. I don't know what they represent. I know they are associated with the phenomenon in some way. Shape or form or the activity on the property is associated with the lights. Maybe there's some type of environmental situation or environment that, you know, produces these lights on some occasions. I thought these lights might have been what they refer to as the willow wisp, which is the methane, you know, the swamp gas, which is methane that ignites and. But the problem is, you know, it only happens under certain circumstances. There has to have been a recent rainstorm, rotting foliage, humidity, and they only appear in like a green violet type of color and pretty much, you know, close to the ground. But some of these lights that people are seeing and what I've saw doesn't, doesn't fit that at all because what I saw was off the ground. The terrain I was looking at was hilly. It would go into ravines, up on top of a hill, another knoll would go down into another ravine. And this light appeared to be straight, lined. It was coming right across that. I mean, it didn't follow the terrain whatsoever that I could tell, you know, that just. It's weird. I don't know what it represents. Like I said, back in 2003, we CPRI investigated the case near Bedford, Virginia, where a lady was reporting some type of a weird phenomena in her. Her house. She owned a farm. And we went there, we did an investigation and went through the, went through the numbers. And we found out from her later that in, I think it was early 80s, she experienced orb activity or witnessed some orbs in her bedroom. She was getting ready for bed, turn the lights out, was getting ready to get into the bed itself. She looked at the foot of her bed. She saw three orbs floating at the foot of her bed in a straight line. They were about the size of a softball. They had different colors. It was orange, reddish, bluish, and then yellow. And she says that after a second or two they started moving in unison in a line formation down her hallway and made a sharp 90 degree turn left into her dining room. It shocked her, so she went into looking in the hallway, looked in the dining room, couldn't see them, so she decided to go to bed. Somewhat upset her, but she went to bed anyway. And the next morning she got up and went into the dining room to check around and one of her dining room windows was open and just a screen was in the window. And she looked at the screen and she saw three discolored spots in the shape of a circular shape of about the size of a softball. And she. She surmised that they probably went through the screen, you know, and because they weren't there prior to this incident, they were about the same size. And, you know, she just surmised that that's probably what it was, that these orbs or whatever it was, whatever they were, went in through the window. She eventually took the screen out, rolled it up, stuck it in her barn. Well, when she told us about this, we asked her if she still had the screen itself. She said she still. She says she believes she did. And she went out to the barn, pulled it out, and luckily she still had it after 20 years. And she. We looked at the screen. It did have certain. What I wouldn't say burnt, but discolored spots on it, three circular spots on it, and thought that was interesting. We asked if we could have it analyzed and she agreed. So we took the screen and had one of our members who was a radiochemist, worked for a lab in eastern Virginia. And he decided that, you know, give it to me, I'll check it out. And we gave it to him. And a few weeks later he sent us a report. The report was extraordinary. If you want me, I can, you know, I've got the report, excerpts of the report itself, and if you'd like, I can touch base on it.
- [37:52]
Wes
Yeah, please do.
- [37:54]
Rick Artistrain
That's a little lengthy, but I think your listeners would probably find it interesting, especially those who are radio chemists or someone of a scientific background. They might find this analysis interesting in and of itself. Now, I can't vouch for what he's saying here to be accurate because I'm. I'm not qualified to. He's a. He was a very credible guy, very serious about his work, very objective, very critical. But this is what he. I received a large piece of window screen and on the screen were four discolored spots. He said four. The marks consisted of three large circular spots and one smaller irregularly shaped spot. I took eight 1 inch by 1 inch samples of the screen. The first four samples were of the spots in question. The samples all included a part of the border of the affected and unaffected area. The other four samples were randomly spaced cuttings across the rest of the screen. I tested all eight screen samples for carbon residue using a gentle swipe technique. No carbon residue was present. I then tested for Any loose particulate using a very mild solvent rinse. Aside from a bit of normal particulate that would be expected on any type of window screen. There was and there was no other loose particulate on the screen itself. I then analyzed the screen using a KEVEX KEVX X ray fluorescence spectrometer, model 770. The screen is composed of a fiberglass material that has been evenly coated with an aluminum powder coating to resist wear. The aluminum coating contained many non aluminum metallic impurities. The spectroscopy showed that there was a smaller amount of iron impurities in the affected samples. The iron seemed to have been replaced with a new isotope that wasn't present in other samples. The isotope is cobalt 60. It is my opinion that the iron impurities were barraged with a strong neutron flux. This would also explain the increased level of brittleness that is present in the affected samples. As opposed to the very flexible nature, not the coating on the unaffected areas. Neutron flux causes defects in the crystalline structure of most metals. That would explain why the aluminum coating had become so brittle and stiff. However, the strangest anomaly would have to be the fact that the events witnesses were still alive. Neutron radiation is particularly harmful to the human body. The levels of radiation that would need to be generated in order to activate the pieces. A screen in such a short length of time would have been quite high. Much higher than what is considered a lethal dose would have to have been absorbed by the witnesses. This leads me to believe that the radiation was somehow contained within the spheres observed. There is no known theoretical way that a free floating, non silent sphere could emit much less contain such a high level of radioactivity. Especially neutron radioactivity, which is usually associated with transceranic elements. This leads me to believe that some force of unknown origin passed through the screen and while doing so entered a large emitted a large burst of radiation. But for a short period of time as to not seriously harm or kill the witnesses. So he was, you know, there was much more to it. But that's. Those are the highlights of his particular analysis. We thought that was very interesting. When we found out about the radiation, potential radiation exposure of this lady, we started interviewing her further. She said that she told her about the results. And she said, well, you know, within two weeks after that happened, I got a bad case of the flu. And she remembered it distinctly. She said she had, you know, weakness, vomiting, nausea, that type of thing. And she said that, you know, it lasted about a week or two. And she just, when it. When it cleared, clear it up. She just, you know, forgot about it later in a few years later, she had hip replacement surgery. And after the surgery, the doctor who did the hip replacement asked her, have you ever been subjected to radiation therapy? And she said, no, not that I'm aware of. He says, well, you're the, the bones in your joint were porous and similar. Porous in a way that's similar to have been subjected to radiation therapy or some type of radiation exposure. She said, well, not that I'm aware of. So that's, that's interesting in and of itself, might be another data point that might want to take into consideration with regard to his analysis. But yeah, that's interesting. I'm not sure that these, these orbs that people are seeing would associate with these Bigfoot creatures or cryptids are irradiated. But in this particular case, it appears that these particular orbs, witness worse, were irradiated to a high degree.
- [43:01]
Wes
I kind of think that they are. And you know, it's interesting that his paper, his research found that cobalt 60, because that's an artificial isotope, I think it has like a half life of
- [43:15]
Rick Artistrain
like five years, I think so, yeah. I think I've done some research on it, but I've forgotten most of the research. Yeah, but the cobalt 60 and the isotope that's, that's manufactured somewhat similar to what you get in a nuclear reactor. That's in the. And what I understand, speaking to him, he says that the, the radiation was so high that it would have been, you know, if you were standing next to a nuclear reactor for a few seconds, that would probably produce the same results. But she didn't, you know, she didn't die or anything like that. She was just sick. I don't know if the radiation was a emitting constant, that constant amount, or it took that amount to get through the screen itself. If that's the case, I don't know. And I can't, I can't comment on the scientific evaluation because I don't, I'm not qualified to. I can just relate to what he
- [44:07]
Wes
said, you know, when me and my brother captured that light on night vision, and the inside of the light look like power. I mean, it wasn't, it didn't hurt your eyes to look at. It was kind of a pretty light. But my night vision camera had almost died because I had spent so much time trying to figure it out on our way there. And that's probably the reason why I actually got it on video, is because I had the camera in my hand. And I can't really prove this on a Scientific level, because you can't really say feelings. You can measure feelings. But I had a feeling that this thing was intelligent. This thing was just as interested in us as we were in it. But I didn't want to get too close. And I remember even telling Woody, like, keep your distance. Don't get too close to this thing. It made me nervous. And when we left, that light followed us. It wasn't like a high speed chase. It was like, wow, that light's still there. It's still coming through the trees. And it went on for miles. That light followed us. I interviewed this guy, gosh, many, many years ago. He was an Australian, and he had these lights on video, pictures, videos. And he kind of had this claim of like, oh, I can call them in. And I was like, okay, sure. But this guy could actually call them in. I mean, they would show up. And he had gotten so comfortable with these lights that one day he decided he was gonna go touch it. And he had his dog with him. So he reaches out to touch this light that's in his yard, and he described it as like a softball size. I think it was a blue light. He reached out to touch it, and that was the last thing he remembered. He woke up in the hospital. His dog had actually died of radiation poisoning, and he was on death's doorstep. I interviewed him probably a year later. And from the previous couple years that I interviewed him to. When I interviewed him at this point, the second interview, we were doing it over zoom. He looked like a cancer patient that had about two days left to live. He looked like he was dying. And I asked him, I said, what. What happened? And he said, you know, I. I went to touch this light, and that was the last thing I remembered. He goes, I ended up in the hospital. And the doctor said, do you. Do you work in a nuclear power plant? He was like, no, I don't work in a nuclear power plant. And they couldn't figure out there was so much radiation he was giving off. They're like, you should be dead. And I remember hearing that thinking, what in the world are these lights? And why are they showing up when these cryptids are around?
- [47:03]
Dr. Jack Trammel
Very interesting anecdote to go along with this. Rick and I could send you this footage of this light that was captured on surveillance camera. So no human was present. But later we saw it on review, and in this case, it. It moved with intention. It was solid in the center, but you could see a little bit of an aura around it. And when it moved, it left a plasma trail, which Intrigued, my physicist friend. But there was a horse nearby, and the horse was grazing in the middle of the night while this is happening. And as the light gets close to the horse, you can see it reflecting off the horse's skin and body and fur, but the horse did not see it. And so, as best we can tell on this full spectrum camera, it was luminescing in the ultraviolet range, but it did move, apparently with what looked like intentionality. But the anecdote related to this is that in addition to not being able to explain the light, this horse died not too long after this incident happened. And because it was 29 years old, we chalked it up to old age. But now we're talking about these things, possibly irradiating. And this thing was all around that horse. And so there's no way to prove it or disprove it, but it's just an interesting thing to think about. I'm always intrigued by the fact that there were three of them in the story with the woman and the screen. Why three? But in one of the video clips that the Air Force released last year of unidentified objects, there were three of them, or circular three, moving together in tandem. And I noticed, if I'm allowed to mention that I watch Skinwalker Ranch every now and then, they've had a couple of incidents where they had three of them moving in tandem with each other, and they were circular, light like objects. And so I wonder what magic there is in three.
- [49:12]
Rick Artistrain
Interesting number. Like I can get into a whole
- [49:15]
Dr. Jack Trammel
new realm of conversation.
- [49:18]
Rick Artistrain
Conversation, exactly. With the number three in paranormal. But yeah, that's. That's very interesting.
- [49:25]
Wes
That is interesting, Jack. I didn't think about that. That lady that had the three orbs in her home and how they went through this screen, I know in the paranormal world, and I've been told this by a few exorcists, that anytime you see things show up in threes, it's a way of mocking God, kind of a way of mocking the Trinity.
- [49:48]
Rick Artistrain
In my experience, I think it is, because about 15 years ago, and I think I mentioned this the last time I was on your show, I investigated a very serious haunting situation in Manassas Park, Virginia, lady and her husband. She was being brutally attacked, scratched, beaten, thrown about by something unseen. And I did an investigation on that. And after about two years, I was able to get some video evidence of it. Got in touch with a religious demonologist that I know from Connecticut, Dave Considine. And he's a pretty much a protege of Ed Lorraine Warren, if you're Familiar with them. He. I told him what was going on. He says it could very well be a type of influence called oppressive, demonic, oppressive activity or oppression. And so I started to look at it in that respect from that vantage point and started, you know, researching. And he told me precisely what I needed to do because I'm Roman Catholic and so is he. And I started using certain things to help her out. And it apparently happened, apparently helped her a lot. But in her scratches, when she got scratched, she would get scratched on her arms, legs, thighs, her back, neck. They were always in sets of three, all of them, and they were very similar in that two. There was three linear scratches side by side. And it was all. They were always similar in that two were longer than the third one, which I thought was interesting. I've got photos of photos of those things if you'd like me to send them to you. But, you know, they. She, you know, she was, you know, what we did was Roman Catholic in the realm of Catholic tradition. You know, holy water and blessed incense was very efficacious against the demonic spirits. So she started using those and certain specific prayers that we gave her and seemed to put a halt to a lot of this activity for a long time until it kind of came back on her with a vengeance, attacked her more. And that's when we got involved and Dave Considine and I started communicating with each other. Eventually, you know, I was able to get video evidence of her getting scratched, and I was able to confirm that. And I sent the evidence to Dave. He. He consulted a Roman Catholic priest in the Chicago area. And the Chicago priest, this particular Chicago priest, was an exorcist that he had worked with in the past. The exorcist says it looks like it's legitimate demonic oppression. And he says he wanted to give a, you know, another diagnostic test to see if it was, in fact, spiritual in nature instead of her just, you know, something happening other than that. But she was a cutter or whatever. But anyway, he. He said what he was going to do is he was going to do a Catholic mass in her name on a Sunday morning at about 8 o', clock, which would have been 9 o' clock, central or Eastern rather. And he wanted us to be there. And we made up the excuse that it would go in and get something or maybe take her to church. So we went in there at about 9 o'. Clock. My wife and I, we, you know, talked with her and met her. And she was. At exactly 9:00 o', clock, she became very, very ill. She had a Migraine headache, she was nauseous. She was light sensitive. She couldn't leave the curtains open. Her. And she's not prone to that, that I recall. She's not prone to those type of headaches. And it happened, you know, around the time that this mass was going on. Her name we confirmed later, later that the Price priest did in fact do that. And when she had that violent reaction, we kind of surmised that, hey, you know, maybe there's something going on here. We got seven days a week, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, and this happens on one. At one point during that period of time, it would. The reason dictates that there might be something to it. So in short, they authorized me to do what's referred to as a deliverance type of exorcism, a regular solemn exorcism in the Catholic Church. No one can perform that unless you're an ordained priest with permission of your mission. Well, they gave me permission to do this with a specific prayer, and I'm not going to mention the prayer, but it's a specific prayer to St. Michael. And St. Michael happens to be my. My. My confirmation name, my middle name of, you know, St. Michael, Michael after St. Michael. You know, I went in there, had this, you know, had holy water. So that told us, said that specific prayer. There was no grand finale or anything like that. It was quiet, peaceful. But there was a sense of the environment changed and environment became very calm and soothing. And I was, you know, did something, you know, inside me said, this is over, it's done. From that point on, she never had another attack. And it's been over 10 years. And we pretty much keep track with her, track of her on Facebook. She has no. She's had no further attacks since then. I thought that was interesting. And when we got to the investigation and we us, I'm pretty sure that her ailment came from an accurse that a co worker had put on her because he made certain statements, he did certain things that indicated that. So I'm not certain that that was the case, but surely sure lend itself to being the case in this particular instance. So, you know, that everything in a nutshell, that's. That's the three scratches and the number three with regard to negative entity haunting in these cases.
- [55:29]
Wes
I appreciate sharing that, Rick. I've heard many accounts like that where people get scratched. And so it's always three scratches. Or sometimes even in alien abduction encounters, they always show up in threes, which I think is weird. And as you look across the different genres, you'll see common things like, for example, this mindspeak. It shows up in bigfoot encounters. It shows up in dogman encounters. When you look at the alien encounters where people are being abducted or they're communicating with these things. If you listen to the eyewitnesses, the aliens never talk with their mouth. It's always to their mind. And, you know, even going back to dogman for a second, if you listen to the behavior most of these dogman encounters, it doesn't sound like an animal. It sounds more like a demon. I remember had this one guy on the show one time, he shot at one. And this thing would torment this guy. It would focus on him. And if you really listen to how he described the behavior, it sounds like a demon, like getting off on tormenting this guy. Do you think it's all kind of related, or do you think these are all separate things going on and there's just a lot of weird coincidences?
- [56:56]
Dr. Jack Trammel
I'll go first. And having my base in the paranormal side of things, it's pretty typical to think about residual versus active. And those categories seem to work okay for a lot of the data that people get. There are certain things that happen over and over at certain locations, Whereas active events often, in my experience, seem targeted at specific people. We have a member of our, our team who constantly gets touched. Why. Why not the other 35 people in our organization? Why always this person is the one getting touched. And so just speaking purely about the paranormal world, it does seem like some people get targeted specifically by some of the more active phenomena.
- [57:53]
Rick Artistrain
There's something about something else I didn't add in my email to us. Harley. I told you that Harley was experiencing some paranormal activity while investigating this bigfoot stuff going on in eastern Tennessee. Well, I told you that he experienced a dogman sighting and which pretty much bothered him a great deal. It bothered him. He was upset with it somewhat, and it was kind of an obsession with him. He's always thinking about this particular dogman that he encountered because it bothered him. And then one day he said that he called me up later one day and he says, something happened that I think you should know. And I said, what was that? He says, I was sitting in my car. I just gotten. I just came out of the grocery store, I was sitting in my car, and I started thinking heavily about this dogman incident that I had, and it was starting to bother me. And while I was sitting in the car, I felt this warm stinging sensation on the side of my neck. And I said, well, what happened? He says, well, I looked at myself in the rear view mirror and I had scratches on my neck. And I said, was any way it could have happened, he could have accidentally done? He says, no, I was just sitting here still when it happened and they weren't there before. And I just felt this warm heat and then this pain, stinging pain. And he took a photograph of it and sent it to me. There were scratch marks on his neck. 3 scratch marks similar to the ones from the lady I spoke about before too long, one shorter than the other. I don't know what the implication of that is, but I start to think heavily on that. I said, could this be demonic in some way or is it something else that's similar, that even if it weren't demonic, is there some other type of phenomenon that's occurring that's similar to the demonic? I don't know. But I didn't mention that in my email because, you know, I don't know. I want to put a lot of information in there in a short period of time, but that's what happened to him, which is interesting.
- [60:00]
Wes
Yeah, I appreciate sharing that. It crosses my mind a lot, you know, being in this field. Is it deception and it's all kind of related or are these truly separate things going on? I'm not so sure. You know, I think about in Scripture where it talks about the fallen angels landing on Mount Hermon. Why would they have to land on Mount Hermon if it's an interdimensional being the way they describe it, it almost sounds like they're landing some sort of ship or something on Mount Hermon. And that's the scripture version. If you read the Anunnaki version, there are aliens that landed, and on and on and on. It's the same story, just a different perspective. And I appreciate you guys coming on and sharing your insight. What's kind of next for the Quantum Bridge project?
- [61:00]
Rick Artistrain
Well, we're looking at continuing our research. We're trying to find as many locations as possible that we could work in and as many researchers, cryptid researchers as possible so that we can gather the data that we need. Like I said, CPRI is data oriented. If we can, you know, maybe one may not be able to explain the phenomenon completely, but if we can, if we can correlate environmental data, changes in the environment with the sightings of these creatures, then that, you know, that may give us some data points to work off of and we can just proceed further from there. But it's got to start somewhere. And you know, as far as I know there's, there are no other groups like this that are working in tandem with cryptid researchers to try to, to collect this data. And we're going to keep trying. We're going to drive forward and we'll see what happens in the future. Yeah.
- [61:59]
Wes
And how can people reach out to you?
- [62:01]
Rick Artistrain
You can contact us. Center for Paranormal Research and Investigations in Virginia. I don't precisely know what the email address is but we do have a Facebook page and I think the website. So you can contact them that way or you know, you can put my email address in the comments on your show. That would be, that'd be okay too, I think.
- [62:26]
Dr. Jack Trammel
The generic email is infocenterpri.org thanks so
- [62:34]
Wes
much Dr. Trimmel and I hope people go and check out the Quantum Bridge project. I welcome more eyes and different mindsets into this subject. Hopefully we'll get answers. And like I said, maybe it's all not connected and I'm reading too much into it and I'm not so sure about that. The Quantum Bridge Project. I really appreciate you coming on Rick and Jack. Thank you so much for taking the time.
- [63:04]
Dr. Jack Trammel
It was great. Thank you.
- [63:06]
Rick Artistrain
Thank you, Wes. I appreciate you having me back.
- [63:09]
Wes
Thanks again guys. And that's it for tonight everyone. Remember if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address us as wes@sasquatchchronicles.com and if you get a chance check out sasquatch chronicles.com you can become a member and get additional shows. Until next time everyone. Will some tone go alone the lights on maybe she know that you gone put the lights on this is my home Place your eye memories of you dear until your eyes close at the sky I miss my alright memories of you de I. Grew whiter the light must be a little wiser the light sound to insert quieter with the lights on this is my home don't survive memories of you dear until your eyes close it the sky I miss my bright memories of you dear.
- [64:59]
Rick Artistrain
Sam.
- [65:24]
Wes
Memories of you dear until your life close up the skies I'll miss my memories of you.