Alice (3:34)

Thank you so much.

Wes (3:36)

Yeah. And you had this experience in Newfoundland. We're going back about 15 years ago, prior to actually seeing this creature. What was kind of your thoughts on Bigfoot?

Alice (3:47)

I had zero thoughts on Bigfoot. Never even considered it. Spent most of my life in the woods in different areas of the country and around the world. Never Considered it.

Wes (3:57)

Well, if you would, would you take me back 15 years ago when you were in Newfoundland? What were you doing and what happened?

Alice (4:07)

We were on our summertime vacation. It was my son, one of my friends and we picked Newfoundland as a destination to go and see. I had been up as far as, am I saying this right? New Brunswick in the area up in Canada before you get to the ferry. But I wanted to see Gros Morne park and it just happened to be the year when the, one of the big icebergs had broken loose and was actually floating between Newfoundland and Labrador. So we thought that'd be something fun to go see while we were up there. And it was, it was as expected. It was just absolutely, just beautiful scenery. It was really rather open. The trees were not near as tall as further south mainland us. They were kind of adorable little stubby trees. We got to see a moose and her baby and I think that was probably the one thing that was that scared me the most because they are definitely mean animals and huge. But other than that it was just, it was beautiful scenery. It was a fantastic vacation. We were camping, meeting locals, finding great places to go eat. We drove up to go see the iceberg because I think it was somewhere about kilometer long floating in the water. You could see it from the north western point of Newfoundland so we thought we'd give it a try from one of the towns up there to actually go view the iceberg because it was supposed to be massive, like a big chunk of land floating by. And it really was during the daylight hours we were up there. It was quite a drive up from where we were camping in Grossmoorn park. And it was just one of those fun things to just see it. It just off, it wasn't that far off the shore so you can really get a good look at it. So we wander around the beach, got bit up by mosquitoes, had a great drive up and headed back after dark hours. And think about, it was probably about like a couple hour drive so maybe I might be mistaken on the exact amount of time. But as we're driving south we were watching for moose because we did not want to crash into a moose with a Ford or sedan. We would have preferred not having a massive crash up there because it was in the middle of nowhere. We were probably about maybe an hour or so still away from where we were camping in Grossmore Park. And the whole drive kind of runs along the coastline for where the hot, not really a highway system but where the road runs north and south there and as we're driving south, I'm keeping my eyes out. I'm the passenger, so I'm keeping my eyes out along the edges for moose. And my friend Shelina was driving, and from my side, all of a sudden, there something was that jutted out across the road in front of us. And I'm yelling at her to slam on the brakes so we don't hit it, which she does, thank God. And we came to a stop. It was gone just that fast. I got out of the car, shined my flashlight, which was not a fantastic one at the time, and tried to see what the hell it was we had just seen. It was definitely on two legs, and it was furry. And the best thing I could describe it was. Was like a gorilla had just run across the road in front of us. It was definitely on two legs. It was definitely. And it was running as fast as you could imagine across the road. And I was expecting to see a moose, so that was what I was anticipating. So it was on two legs, slightly bowed, like, its shoulders were slightly bowed forward. Probably speed. And also just the body shape of. Wasn't big. It wasn't what everybody describes as what they see with bigfoot. It was probably my height, maybe five, four, lean forward. And running across the road in front of us. And furry. It was definitely furry. I would have sworn it was a great ape.

Wes (8:39)

And I realize all of this is happening very, very quickly, but what details kind of stay with you from what you saw and what made you think great ape?

Alice (8:50)

Well, I guess more gorilla. More gorilla than great ape. But the way that its body was leaned forward because you could actually see the swinging of the arms and they came down. Maybe it's because of how it was hunched over, because we didn't see anything standing straight up, but the arms were longer than they should have been for being a human. They kind of hung down. And there was no backside of it, so there were no back legs to it. It was just up on two legs running. Couldn't see a face. It just looked like fur running across the road, but it wasn't. I don't think they even have bears up there. And if they do that, they don't run like that.

Wes (9:34)

Yeah, I think Newfoundland actually has the largest black bear population out of anywhere in North America. And, I mean, I'm. I'm sure a Canadian will correct me if I'm wrong on that, but they definitely have black bears. And I think as you get to Labrador, kind of on the coast, that's where you'll run into Polar bears. But having said all that, bears don't run like that. Well, what was going through your mind when you saw this? Because you really didn't buy into Bigfoot.

Alice (10:06)

I. I just. I. I was looking at this, and I'm talking to both my son, who was in the backseat. I'm not even positive he got a good look at it. And I was talking to Shelina, who was driving. I'm like, what the hell was that? They were kind of both silent. They're like, I. I don't know. Nobody could figure out what the heck we had just seen. And we pulled over to the side of the road because I'm like, hit the brakes. Because I wanted to get out and see what the heck we just seen. Because I was there for the wildlife. I was there for the scenery, but that wasn't the wildlife I was expecting to see. None of us could figure out what the heck it was. And we didn't have Internet service there, so we couldn't even do a quick Google search of it. The best I could do is I grabbed a napkin, drew a sketch on a napkin of the basic body shape of what I saw. So when we found the Internet about a day later at a McDonald's, I was scanning the Internet to see what wildlife possibly could have been in Newfoundland to figure out what I had just seen, and there was nothing.

Wes (11:06)

And I know you've spent your whole life as a trained observer, you know, going from a military police officer to a federal officer. I would imagine this had a major impact on you. And you said you guys stopped and kind of looked out with a flashlight. How long were you guys there?

Alice (11:25)

Probably about. We were there probably about 15 minutes or so, because I just kept looking, just kept trying to see if I could see it. And it wasn't as if I could look off into the woods because the trees really weren't much taller than me. There wasn't. It wasn't forested. It wasn't woods like what it is in most of the, you know, the lower 48. Everything's so short there. There were a few houses kind of scattered off in the distance in different places, but there wasn't really a great set of woods to have gone running off into. So I was looking in the ditch next to the road. I knew we didn't hit it, but it was. It was close. Yeah, I just. And then we just kept going. And that was kind of a very silent drive, except for periodically one of us just bringing up again, what the heck was that? And it was a very Silent drive back to the campground that night.

Wes (12:20)

Did you have any concerns going to the campground after seeing this thing?

Alice (12:25)

No, it was about an hour away from where we were. It was more just not concerns, more just complete confusion.

Wes (12:33)

You know, I've gotten many reports out of bc, Alberta, Northern Ontario, Manitoba, But I really haven't gotten anything out of Newfoundland or Labrador. And, you know, they're there. It's such a remote area, and it makes me wonder if it's because of the lack of people and maybe the lack of people who want to come forward. It's kind of like Alaska. I think there's a lot more of these creatures in Alaska. But you don't hear a ton of reports come out of Alaska. I mean, you do hear of reports, but not as many as you would imagine. And I say this on every roadside crossing. I just don't get their behavior. And I get why a deer would cross a road or maybe a moose or. You know, I wouldn't put them up as very intelligent animals. But Sasquatch is supposed to be highly intelligent, and you hear this a lot. And I've noticed over the years that the bulk of the reports are from younger ones, or what I would assume to be younger ones, because they're not King Kong coming across the road. You do get those from time to time. I just don't get that behavior. I just don't understand it yet.

Alice (13:49)

For the life of me, I can't even figure that one out. I mean, a moose, I can get it. They really don't understand cars. They don't understand that. And maybe that's what it comes down to, is the understanding of what the headlights coming towards them really is. Doesn't make any sense. It was coming. So it was traveling. We were traveling south. It was traveling east, away from the water, which is the big. I don't know if you would consider the channel that goes between Newfoundland and Labrador, but it's. It's obviously a very large body of water. You have to take a ferry to get over, across. We weren't right next to the water. We were in from the water quite a distance, But I don't know. I mean, is there a possibility they could cross over between mainland Canada over to the island? I have no idea.

Wes (14:42)

Yeah, it makes you wonder. You wouldn't think they would be able to. What is that? The Strait of Belle Isle. It's full of ice. It's strong. I think it's known for its really strong currents. And, I mean, there's no way you could even talk me into getting into. Into that water. I don't think I'd survive anyway. You wouldn't think that they would swim across it, but it really wouldn't shock me if they did. You know, in. In Alaska, there's reports of them swimming two different islands in between different islands. And I remember a famous report here in Washington. There's a ferry that goes from Seattle to Vancouver. It's rough seas. It's real rough seas out there. And it's cold. I mean, it's not like the Straight of Belle Isle, but it's cold. I don't think I'd want to get in that water. And I remember this report of these people being on a ferry. And this was in the 80s. All of these people on this ferry said they saw a. What they thought at first was an African American man swimming that channel. And. And he was doing pretty well, apparently. And as they kind of got closer, they realized that wasn't a man. And again, I. I don't think any man is swimming that channel.

Alice (16:06)

I would hope not. I mean, I would hope. I just. It's just absolutely mind baffling of maybe there's a population that are in Newfoundland. I mean, around that area. I've heard the theory of like the traveling corridor and going, you know, through north to south on the west coast of the US and. But it's really hard to find anything even now about Newfoundland and any reports of anybody seeing anything. But I know what I saw. I just couldn't at the time completely rationalize or explain it. It just did not make any sense.

Wes (16:45)

Yeah, I have no doubt you saw what you saw. And it doesn't shock me one bit that they're out there. You know, I've often wondered what would happen if a polar bear and a Sasquatch cross paths. I think a polar bear can actually smell a human 20 miles away. Think it's over 30 kilometers for. For my Canadian audience. Hope I got that right. But I've often wondered what would happen if they cross paths. And I guess that's the conversation for another time. Tell me about what's going on out there in Pennsylvania. I know you're working on your family farm. When did this happen? And what's happening out there?

Alice (17:27)

Oh, that's happening now. The. So we were outside with a fire pit after dark. Was the. After dark. It was getting pretty chilly. And we're outside a lot more than I would say what. Normally people are outside here maybe just because of the fact that we're working on a house that's in Rather bad shape. So we don't have. We're. It's almost like we're squatting, which is terrible to say, but we're trying to renovate. But not all of the utilities are working as they should. So we're outside a lot more than we should be. And it's cold and there's snow outside right now. And we're still outside continuously because we're working on stuff. We had a fire pit going and it was before the first fall of snow for this year. And across the valley from us where they're logging. We heard the best I could describe it as. It wasn't a human woman yelling, but it was a higher pitched yell. And my boyfriend played the Ohio. What is Ohio Howler? Is that what it's called?

Wes (18:36)

Yeah, the Ohio Howl.

Alice (18:38)

Yeah. Yeah. And that is definitely what it sounded like, but a little bit higher pitched than that. And it was either two of them yapping back and forth to each other or it was one moving in an incredibly fast pace through the woods and then yelling a second time. I don't know for sure which, but there's some very odd noises happening at night.

Wes (19:04)

Yeah, I don't have it queued up, but since it's Christmas, let me pull it up here. This is the Ohio Howl. And this is just starting out there. You're hearing this weird stuff.

Alice (19:45)

Nobody has been. And occupying this specific house for. We calculated it was 18 years ago when my grandma was living here. We do have neighbors, but we're a half mile off the main road and it's still kind of in the middle of nowhere. We're not. It's not super, super in the middle of nowhere, but we're surrounded by a lot of woods and national forest type area. So there's plenty of woods, farms, things like that. And even the towns that are here are not really that big, but there's plenty of woods between all the towns as well. So it's western Pennsylvania in the. My mom always called it the Appalachian Mountains when she was a kid. That's what they referred to it as. So it's western Pennsylvania, middle of nowhere and not a lot of people. And everybody's kind of, you know, it's sparsely populated outside of the bigger town, which isn't really that big from where I'm originally from anyway. But yeah, and two nights ago he heard what he said were wood knocks and he came running up to get me. I was working on insulation in the attic and I didn't make it out in time to hear them, but he Heard something knocking on. He said it sounded like something slamming. It's like slamming another piece of wood up against a tree in the woods. And unfortunately I missed that one. But that was after dark and during the snow and over kind of around where they're doing, where they're ripping trees out. But it's at nighttime, so they weren't working on trees that late at night.

Wes (21:26)

Makes me wonder if it's because of the activity in the area. You mentioned they were cutting down trees and with what you're doing to the farm home, if it's kind of stirring them up. Have you taken a look around the property to see if you could find any evidence of them?

Alice (21:44)

We have to a degree. We were finding some odd trees knocked over in odd places and in odd ways. And we found like the smaller ones, roughly, you know, 4 inch diameter pine trees pushed over where nothing else appears to have been able to have knocked them over. Wind wouldn't have been able to because they're not really the biggest of the big trees. Just odd little things like that. Nothing to the extent of what I've seen in some of the now, like what I've seen in some of the documentaries, but still things that kind of catch your attention and go, why the hell did that happen?

Wes (22:20)

Yeah, I would actually get some audio recorders. You can set them up and you can get the ones that can survive the weather and you can set them to record a certain DB that it'll pick it up. So like if you don't want them to pick up the wind, it won't pick that up. But if there's an actual, the audio level is loud enough, the recorder will kick on. I would set up a couple of those just to see if you could capture some audio.

Alice (22:48)

We have, we have a couple trail cams out in the back that we've been periodically moving around catching the wildlife that is known with, you know, the white tailed deer, we've got turkeys, we did see a bear and we know there are bears here because there have been bears here before I was around because I remember our family of bears that has been here since I was a kid. So we definitely have bears. We have all the regular run of the mill animals but nothing caught on camera other than the normal stuff at this point in time. But we have a couple trail cams out there that we're, we're watching just.

Wes (23:24)

To see, you know, going back to that. Oh, howl, howl. I find that one of the weirdest vocalizations that these creatures make for something so elusive. You Would think that would be the last vocalization that they would do because it gives away their position. And I've wondered over time, maybe it's a call meant for them. They're doing it back and forth to each other. It's not really. It's more like a locator call. It's not really meant for us.

Alice (23:55)

Well, that would make sense. I mean, if, you know, with all the other animals that are out there, if you hear coyotes yapping away at each other, they're talking to each other. If you hear the foxes calling for each other at mating season, they're calling for a buddy. They are calling for their own kind. So that would make sense.

Wes (24:14)

Yeah. I'd be really curious what happens over time out there, Especially with all the activity going on. And you're renovating the farmhouse. You guys aren't building a home out there?

Sam (24:26)

No.

Alice (24:26)

Well, we're actually renovating the original farmhouse that's here. So it's been in our family for as long as it was built. We're not 100% sure how old it is. It's definitely 100 plus years old. And it was the original family farm that my family bought over a hundred years ago. So we're. We're renovating the actual farmhouse itself. So there's quite a bit to go, but at least there's indoor plumbing, because my grandpa added that back in the day.

Wes (24:59)

I think that's so cool that you have that rich history there of this farm home that daze back a hundred years. I wish I had something like that in my family. Did your grandparents ever talk about anything weird going on out there?

Alice (25:15)

My grandpa's one story from right after they bought the house from my grandma's parents Just after World War II when they came back to this area. He was working in the bigger town that's closer by. And on his drive back, he said he was followed by three orbs. And I don't think that Bigfoot and the orbs have anything to do with each other. I think it's more just a desolate area. But the story always was that he was followed by the three orbs until he got to the creek. That's like a big hill down before you come back up to hit the driveway. And at the bottom of the creek, they shut off in the direction of the creek, One one or two upstream, the other one or two downstream.

Wes (26:09)

I kind of believe your grandfather. Did anyone else in the family see the lights?

Alice (26:15)

It was just my grandfather.

Wes (26:18)

Yeah. Like I said, I actually believe your grandfather. It's so specific. You know, it's something you hear often now. But I would imagine back when he saw them, maybe they weren't mentioned as much. I. I don't know when he would talk about this. I mean, what did you think those lights were he was actually talking about?

Alice (26:39)

I don't know. But I do know that when he was much, much older, they had done a. Either an MRI or a CAT scan, something along the lines of that. And they found what they thought was shrapnel in him, like three pieces of unknown metal. And they made the assumption that it was a World War II injury. But he was actually a religious objector, so he never was in the war. He worked at the Goodyear factory in Ohio during the war before they came back here. So they asked him. Well, this is. You know, they assumed it was some type of shrapnel that was in him. And he said he'd never. He'd never had any injuries or any. Any chance of having something like that in him. So we never figured out what that was.

Wes (27:31)

Yeah, that's very strange. It's very, very strange. Do you think he had something to do with those lights he saw?

Alice (27:39)

Well, you don't know, because there's no. He never talked about anything like that. And I was in. See, I was in the army and in my 20s when he passed away. So I was in my 20s when the CT or MRI was done on him that found those. So I was definitely old enough that I wasn't just a kid hearing the stories. I remember that pretty clearly. But there was never a given explanation for that. He had no memories of anything. It was kind of one of those. Well, how the heck did that happen?

Wes (28:13)

Do you remember your grandfather talking about any other details about the lights? Did he mention the color?

Alice (28:19)

That I don't remember. I kind of am, like, thinking blue, but that's just kind of me trying to remember details that I just. I don't have.

Wes (28:29)

Yeah, I understand. You have to keep me up to date. Let me know if anything else happens on that property. Probably everything going on on the property and around the property is kind of stirring them up, I'm assuming. And that's just kind of my opinion. And I really do think it's nice that you do have a family property that's been in your family for a hundred years. And, you know, most people don't have that. I ask everyone on the show, what do you think Sasquatch is? What's kind of your take.

Alice (29:02)

Legitimately? I do think Sasquatch is 100% real. After just simply seeing that critter run across the road in front of us, I think it's closer related to humans. Everything that I've learned and understood and you know, the documentaries that you watch and the reading that I have done, I'm not a scientist by any stretch of the imagination, but there if we are all, if you're of European descent, you're roughly 3%. Oh, what the heck. Is it not we are CRO magnon but 3%. What the heck is the name of that valley where they found the other human creatures?

Wes (29:46)

Are you thinking Neanderthal?

Alice (29:49)

Yeah. Yeah. So if we're 3%, roughly 3% Neanderthal. They found other human species that have lived along at the same time as humans have been here. So humans came across and ended up in the US somehow. Which means other human type creatures could have been wandering the same way as modern day human has. They could just simply be in the family tree that is a close relative of us and we just haven't figured out what they are exactly. But they could be just living parallel to us and we just don't realize it. And maybe Neanderthals went extinct or blended with humans and maybe these at one point mixed with us. That's why the human DNA always pops up on the blood work that they've done. We might not be as far disconnected from them as we think.

Wes (30:53)

Yeah, and that's a fair answer. I know when I talked to Melba Ketchum in her DNA study, there seemed to be a lot of human in the actual DNA samples. If you ever had the chance, would you want to see another one?

Alice (31:09)

As long as it's not like some of the other interviews of people that you have talked to. Absolutely. Some of those sounded absolutely horrifying. Mine, there was zero, zero sense of a threat. It was just like any other creature you would see running across the road trying to get the heck out of the way of the car. So as long as it wasn't like as the threatening part of it. Yeah, I definitely would.

Sam (31:38)

Yeah.

Wes (31:38)

I think if I had a roadside crossing I'd probably feel the same way. I'd want to see it again. And I know that you served our country and thank you so much for your service, not only with the military but being a federal police officer. I wanted to ask you, is there one thing from your career that really stays with you? Maybe like the weirdest thing that happened?

Alice (32:03)

Well, nothing paranormal, nothing Bigfoot related. There's so many, it's hard to even pin down one until I Kind of sit there and come up with a batch of different things that have happened. And I haven't really been retired for that long. As far as weird, I don't know, people do weird things. Things that you wouldn't expect them to do were kind of a. An unfriendly creature. The last couple of years I spent probably more almost face to face interaction with people directly because I was a negotiator and met a lot of people at their worst moment. And a lot of those do stick with me more. So one of the guys I worked with nicknamed me the hugger just because of the fact that I ended up at the end of many, many, many of my interactions with people just either hugging and holding on to them because that just kind of seemed like what they needed at the moment. Which turned out to be right. I had one person that was trying to jump off of a bridge, and whether he hit the water below or the massive amount of rocks that were below him, it would have been ugly either way. And though I grabbed him and my other guys came in to grab behind him and grab him behind me and we held on to him long enough to tie him off to the bridge, that would be what I would call a failed negotiation because I certainly didn't talk him out of that. I just talked him into staying with me long enough until I got just the right angle to grab him, that, that kind of thing. I talked a lot of people out of their vehicles and into ambulances to go get, you know, help for wanting to commit suicide, that kind of a thing. So more face to face and individual type things.

Wes (34:05)

God bless you. You minimize it so much calling it a failed negotiation. I mean, you saved a life. I would imagine it would be soul draining to do that for a living. And it probably doesn't hit you in the moment until it's all over with.

Alice (34:23)

Yeah, that, that adrenaline rush takes a long time to settle. And they do stick with you. They like all of those incidents, the minor ones. Don't you just kind of like hope for the best for them and you know, you get them into the ambulance and you hope that they get the right help when they get where they're going. But the one on the bridge, that one that was, that was definitely one of the bigger ones. Towards the end of my career, yeah.

Wes (34:49)

My heart breaks for people who are in that position mentally to where they feel like that is the only option left. And I would imagine it's so rock bottom and you might call it a failed negotiation, but I call it, you're an angel. He saved that guy.

Alice (35:08)

Well, I'm thankful for my guys behind me because that squishy sweater that he was in, it was, like, in the middle of the winter, too. So it's like, it was cold, cold, cold. It was New Year's, actually, as a matter of fact. DC's not as cold as, say, Pennsylvania is at New Year's, but it was cold out, but he had a big, poofy sweater on. And I went back, told my guys, hey, I'm gonna get as close as I can, I'm gonna grab him, be ready to come in behind me and help out. So. And they were. They were really great. There was. We were two different agencies grabbing this guy and holding on to him. And I was face to face with him, holding on to him for dear life, even though we already had him handcuffed to the bridge, but holding on to make sure he wasn't going to try to slip out until they, the fire department, cut us together, cut the piece of the bridge off, and pulled both of us back off the bridge. So that one definitely stuck with me for quite a while. I would call that a failed negotiation because we saved him, but it wasn't for the negotiation. It was just I got him to stay long enough.

Wes (36:13)

Yeah, I disagree with you. I don't think that was a failed negotiation by any means. I mean, at the end of the day, you saved his life. And, you know, life isn't black and white. It's a big gray area. You know, sometimes you can't talk people out of things. You can't. You can't negotiate with them, especially when they're at rock bottom. And I'm sure when he came to his census, he was thinking, God bless her. You know, she's my angel that saved me.

Alice (36:43)

I really hope he does. I don't think he's quite. You know, he was. He was 19. So he's probably. If he's still alive now, he's probably about 21 or so. So he's a young kid. He's got another couple years before his prefrontal cortex is fully matured, and he realizes what he almost did. So my hopes are he does grow and that I get him some help and he does make it past that stage and doesn't end up jumping off another bridge somewhere.

Wes (37:09)

But I really do think it's an amazing thing that you did kind of a selfless act to save him. And you're right. 19. He's just a kid. I'm telling you, one day he will wake up and he'll look back and go, wow, she saved my life. It's an amazing account. I really appreciate you sharing it and I really appreciate you sharing your encounters. I've enjoyed chatting with you. Thank you so much for coming on.

Alice (37:36)

Yeah, thank you so much for, for having me on here.

Wes (37:51)

Next up on the show, I want to welcome. Thanks for coming on.

Sam (37:56)

Hey, Wes, thanks for having me.

Wes (37:58)

Yeah. And I know you're out of Ohio and there was an incident when you were 16, and then I'd like to chat about the most recent one in July of 2024, but if you would take me back. When you were 16, what were you doing and what happened?

Sam (38:17)

So this was like late summer, early fall, I would say. So maybe end of September. I was camping. It's a canal, Fulton area. You know, it's not totally, you know, forested. It's. I would say it's semi rural, you know, just camping there, you know, quite a few people in the campgrounds. But once it got to like around midnight or past midnight, I was camping with my, with my buddy and then his dad. After midnight, we ended up using the restroom. They had like an outdoor restroom use the restroom. Walked out. We're just walking back to the camp area and then walked up to the side of. It's basically a pond, or call it a small lake. But walked up to it, just standing there, just, you know, small talk, chatting, very quiet. There's no one out. We're the only people walking around the camp area. But from across this lake, just out of nowhere, I hear just the most blood curdling female scream. You know, I'm just, you know, when you hear something like that, you just, your gut, you know, kind of talks to you a little bit. And, you know, I'm like, okay, there's a woman getting murdered 100 yards away, whatever. Right across the lake, there's this wooded area that it was coming from. And it just sounded like a woman was getting. Yeah. Tortured. Murdered, like disemboweled. And. And it lasted for about, you know, let's. 3 to 5 seconds silent, like, just totally shocked. I'm like, okay, that was weird. And then after a couple moments of silence, heard another scream. Started off as a scream, very high pitched. And then the way it inflected its voice, it turned from a scream to like a roar. And that lasted, you know, at least over. Over five seconds. I would say. It was very. That one was more a stronger. I. It just, it just got to this deep tone and I couldn't, I'm like, okay, that's not a person anymore. Like, you know, I'm just listening. You know, when you hear something like that or you react to something without thinking, it's like, okay, well that's not a person. That's not an animal that I recognize. You know, all the hair, you know, just stands up on the back of your neck. And my, my friend's daddy's like, that's a, that's a freaking Bigfoot. And I'm like, I. It, you know, didn't. Didn't even cross my mind at that time that that's, you know, something that it could be. But, you know, that was, yeah, pretty, pretty short after that. Dead silent. Nothing else happened. I kind of, kind of just left my mind after that point. I was just like, wow, you know, that didn't even, you know, think that. Never heard that before. So I was just a little bit bewildered. And later on I didn't look back because I was looking at a map just to see like where it would be standing. And there's just this small patch of wooded area just right across from the small pond where, where it was coming from. But I didn't hear any footsteps. I didn't hear any movement. I just heard, you know, just the screams and then, and then that was it. But nothing else happened. You know, just carried on, ended up going to bed. Nothing. No other, you know, surprise or anything. You know, after hearing that, were you.

Wes (41:42)

Ever able to find that vocalization online, kind of what you heard?

Sam (41:48)

So this didn't. I just kind of let this go out of my mind. I didn't know, I didn't research anything until this past year when I, I mentioned I had a second experience. After that second experience, I started listening to your show and I started like just hearing how people describe their screams, describe their, you know, describe their vocalizations. And it's exactly like a woman getting murdered is what it sounded like to me. And just the, yeah, just the. And then listening to your show, I haven't heard like a howl or anything. Like it was just a blood, a full out scream. And then I've heard roars like, like a, like I couldn't pinpoint exactly when it turned it from a loud pitch scream into a roar. It. That sounded like some things that I've heard, you know, from your show. And I can't really tell you exactly what, you know, what recording that was, but I haven't heard. I don't think you've played a blood curdling scream on your, on your show. Or maybe you have One. But no, I haven't heard any or found anything online. I specifically look for it.

Wes (43:02)

Oh, I gotcha. Well, take me to July of this year. What were you doing and what happened?

Sam (43:11)

Yep, so I ended up going camping in Salt Fork Lake State Park. I was there with my cousin and then another friend. And I was actually just getting over reconstructive knee surgery. So three months prior, I dislocated my knee. I had my, my full knee repaired. You know, three out of four ligaments in my knee, I had to get that done. So I was, I was on crutches for two months, got off crutches for about two to three weeks. And I'm like, you know what, I want to go and I want to go hiking. I want to, you know, do something outside where I can move around because all I was doing was, you know, just doing rehab, moving very little besides, you know, going to do my exercises and you know, just crutch around the house or, you know, wherever. But went to, went to Salt Fork. This was the weekend after 4th of July. Decide to go on a trailhead. It's, it's called Shadbush was the trail. So it's actually pretty close to the lodge area. About 2:00', clock, I would say 2:00pm in the afternoon. Just started walking right at the front of the trailhead. As soon as I, as soon as I walk in, my cousin's on one side, my. My buddy is on the other side. And I just see this all black figure moving away from me at a very quick rate. And the way that it was moving away from me, I only saw its back. It was hunched over. I couldn't make out really any sort of details besides, it was one solid color. And it was moving so quickly that if you, if you blinked, you would have missed it. And that's exactly what happened to my, my, my friend and my cousin. All they saw were the bushes move, but my eyes were locked. As soon as I saw it moving away, I did not blink. I did not look away. As it was moving away, it was sort of hunched. And this is how I describe it because I've seen like videos of this before. But like if you've ever watched Mike Tyson shadow box really close up to a camera and you see how he's bobbing and weaving. That's what it looked like. Like how quickly it was like reacting to us. It wasn't, it was just in motion when I saw it. So it took a 90° ° cut like, like a, like an F, like a, like a Very athletic. Moving away from me in a straight line cut to the left and then just made a small cut to the left and then did a 90 degree cut to the right. There's this little ridge that it was, it was on the other side of. So I could really only make out maybe it's, maybe it's upper torso or its butt, I would say maybe, or you know, part of its legs. And then, you know, it was hunched over so I could see its back, but it cut to the right. I couldn't see it for about another couple seconds. And then. So this was about 75ft away from where I was standing to where I could see it. It made that 90 degree cut, went all the way down this. And I, that was the first time I've ever been on that trail. So I don't, I don't know what the, what the lay of the land looked like until I studied it after what I saw. But about 150ft away, it popped up again and it was stand. It was on. All I could see one solid tall figure. The, the opening of, of this little grassy area, wooded grassy area that, that connects to the trails, which is what it was, what it was going down. There's a little bit of a grade, maybe one to two feet from where I was standing. But when it was moving, it was at my eye level. And I'm six foot one. So I, I would say it's over seven feet tall. And the way it moved, like if you watch someone walk in this, if you ever see someone like walk, you know, in the woods or a trail, especially from a farther distance, you can see them bouncing. You can see their head going up and down. You could see how their body moves. This didn't bounce. It was one solid just gliding motion, just walking from, from my right to left. And then it disappeared. So it's very quick. My cousin and my buddy didn't see anything. I was watching it the whole time except when it disappeared. And then I'm studying, I'm looking at, I'm like, okay, all right, there's a, there's people walking back there. At first I thought there were two people because I'm just being rational about this. I'm thinking like, okay, you know, there's someone wearing all black and they're, you know, I, you know, I don't know, you know, what they're doing. But I'm like, okay, well, you know, there's, you know, if there's people there, then I would be able to see them. So we walk around to the trail, totally silent. No person on the trail. Didn't even see a person on the trail as we progressed through the walk. But that was it. Like, it was, it was there for a moment and then it was gone. And what was, what was interesting about this area was there was a very high concentration of deer that were just in the area because it was like a grass type field connected to thick woods and thick brush. And then where it was standing was a mix of brush, but it also opened up to a field. And that weekend, nothing else happened while we were there. When I ended up coming back in this past year, I had my cousin go back there. We went in September. I had him go back there just to get like a reference, like for the size. And my cousin's 66364, so he's like a, you know, broad, tall person. And he couldn't even move back there. It was, it was so thick with thorns. He couldn't even, he couldn't walk. Like, he could barely walk a foot. He had to like, you know, wiggle his arms to just move the branches out of the way. And it was, what I saw was like, like imagine a track athlete. Just the gun goes off and it's. And it's in motion and it's running. And it wasn't a, you know, this wasn't a small thing. When I saw him for size, you know, it was pretty comparable in terms of his, like, shoulder width. And, and what I think was when I saw it moving away, I don't know if it was hunched down and then got on all fours as it cut, because it's following this little ridge to where it opens up into the trail. And that's where I saw that on two feet, walking upright and then going from the right to the left. But my cousin couldn't move back there. And you know, at that point I'm like, okay, that's not a. That's not a person. But, you know, when I first saw it, I'm like, okay, that's very strange for how quickly and how big it was. And, you know, just being rational, I'm like, okay, well, you know, maybe there's people walking back there. And at first I'm like, there's two of them. But I realized there was just. It just was the same color when I saw it upright first, when I saw it crouched, it was the same color, the same, the same figure.

Wes (50:12)

Makes you wonder if the creature was doing something else and noticed you guys or if something else was going on there. What do you Think the creature was doing.

Sam (50:23)

So I. With the amount of deer there, I think it was watching deer. I think it also saw us when we were coming through the trail, because I didn't see any. I was like. My eyes were, like, fixed forward as I was walking in, and my eye just must have caught the movement of it. Of it moving away from me, but it was. I didn't see anything standing there. I just saw it pure motion moving away from me and then upright. But I think there's quite a, like, tons of deer over there, like, in terms of, like, going down different trails in that park, that area, for whatever reason, the deer, like, even going back there the next day looking. There's just tons of deer that are just hanging out in that area. And it was pretty hot that weekend, too. So, you know, I don't know if they're bedding in the, you know, the grass there or they like the, you know, that. That part of the park. But, you know, there was a ton of deer there. So I would say is watching deer.

Wes (51:21)

And nothing about it sounds like a man. I realize all of this is happening very quickly. What are some things that really stick with you?

Sam (51:30)

Looking back, how quickly it was moving and the thickness of the brush that was over there. And that's why I wanted my cousin. I used him as a dummy to go over there, but he couldn't move without getting sliced up by the thorns. And then also when I saw it walking upright, because when it moved from the right to the left, it was, you know, for another couple seconds, so I could see it clearly. One solid, dark figure, all black from head to toe, just walking away. I couldn't make out any features, but I could see that it was at my eye level, which there's a slight grade, as I mentioned. So it was, in my. In my view, at least 7ft tall. And the way it moved was just. I mean, it's the fastest thing I've ever seen. And then for my. My buddy and my cousin, I'm like, did you see that? And they're like, yeah, I saw the brush move. I'm like, no, no, no. You didn't see. You didn't see that walking back there? And they're like, no, no, we just saw the brush move. It was that quick that if you blinked, if you looked away, if you. You would have never seen it. And it was, like, made no sound like a ninja. That's what I would call it. It just moved like a. Like a professional athlete. Like, you'd see someone like. Like, as I described it like, kind of bobbing and weaving. It looked like Mike Tyson back there. That's what it. That's what it looked like. When I. When I see. When I saw it moving away, it was a big, thick, all dark figure. And I could see the hair, too, so I could see that it was covered in hair, but just the speed of it just astonished me.

Wes (53:09)

Yeah, the way that they move will definitely capture your attention. And you talked about something happening that night. You didn't really go into it in your email. What happened that night?

Sam (53:21)

So nothing else physical happened from that encounter or from hiking or anything else after that. When I came back home, it was Sunday night. I went to bed and I. I woke up in the middle of the night, and this, like, you know, I've never had this happen before, but I. I heard inside my head, I heard a very loud scream, like, a very loud scream, very similar to what I heard when I was. When I was a kid, when I was 16. And. And then I'm just awake. I'm. I'm wide awake. My. My. My mind is awake. My eyes are still closed. And then I hear a loud wood knock. Like a. Like a loud. Like the clearest thing that you could hear. Like if I were to hit a, you know, baseball bat or, you know, something against a, you know, piece of wood, just so clear in my head. And I'm. And I'm just wide awake. And then I just see the vision of a Bigfoot's face up close. I could see. It's just, like, spontaneously appeared in my head. A vision of this Bigfoot's face. It was black. The hair was black. It had massive eyes. Its skin was gray. And at first, I'm like, I've never heard of a Bigfoot with. With gray skin. I've never even. I'm just like, okay, you know, I. I don't. I don't know what to think about this, but as I was listening, you know, to the show after I. I had this experience that kind of opened me up again, you know, to, okay, you know, these things are real, but there's a lot of. I heard a lot of people saying that they do have gray skin and its mouth was. Was wide. I could clearly see its mouth. It was. It was very large. It's. Its hair tapered around its brow to it. To its cheekbones and then tapered back around so there was no hair on its face. It had a flat and a round face. I didn't see, like, the conical shape. It was just. It was a pretty Rounded, very large head. But what was very intriguing was that that happened the night I came back. And in that moment when I. When I heard the scream in my head, when I. When I heard the. The. The knock. The knocking sound, I'm just wide awake, and I'm not scared when I see its face, I wasn't scared. I wasn't startled because I was in a very. When you come out of, you know, when you come out of that sleeping state, you're, you know, you're. You're somewhat open, I guess. But in that moment, I. I just felt that it was that individual that I saw in. In Salt Fork. And I can't. You know, obviously there's no way I could possibly prove that or whatever, but.

Wes (56:21)

Yeah, you know, I'm not trying to take away from this experience of this dream that you had, or if it was a dream, I don't know, but I can't tell you. After my encounter, there was like eight months where I barely slept. I'm sure I was slowly killing myself, but every time I went to sleep, I had this reoccurring dream that me and my brother were being attacked by that very large creature, and there was nothing we could do to stop it. And I would wake up and I'd be like, oh, my God, thank God that was a dream. But there was many times where I would swear I was awake. But looking back, I know I wasn't. I was actually falling into sleep. And there's that moment when you're falling into sleep. I would hear that growl over and over and over. And a few times I woke up and realized I'd been sleeping. But after my nightmare, I would sit there and I'd look at the ceiling, not really wanting to go back to sleep. And I would close my eyes and I would assume I was awake. But obviously I was drifting back into sleep and I would hear that growl. And I'm telling you this not to, like, take away from your experience, because it's your experience, not mine, but I can tell you that there was many times where I felt like I was awake. And I know I wasn't. I was actually drifting back into sleep. Has any said this never happened to you before?

Sam (57:54)

No, I've never, like, heard something in my head. I've never heard. No, I've never heard. It was like. It was like, projected into my head. Like I could hear, like, if someone were in my bedroom and smacked it, you know, smacked a tree with a baseball bat. That's what it sounded like. But just inside my head. And I could hear it scream in my head. Which, you know, you would think that would be startling. But I wasn't startled. I was just more like, okay, what. What's going on? And then I see its face inside my head. And it was. This was like three in the morning. I don't know what it was. Nothing like that has happened since. I'd never had any other sort of experience like that.

Wes (58:41)

And again, I wasn't trying to take away from your experience. I just kind of wanted to share with you what I experienced afterwards. And I'm telling you, there was moments where I thought I was awake and I. And I wasn't. But that could be very different from what you're experiencing. What do you think that these creatures are?

Sam (59:01)

I have, like, a very. I feel like they. They could read you pretty well. I feel like they understand people very well. I think that they've been around here for. For as long as this. This. This planet has been around. They've. They've been here and they. I think they watch. They've watched us. They know a lot about us. They know a lot about, you know, if you think about, you know, all the wars we've had, all the, you know, all the events, like, they've been around for those things. Like, they understand. This is just my opinion. I feel that they are a very. A gifted. A gifted being, a gifted forest spirit. That's physical, but they. They can communicate in ways that we don't understand yet. They're surviving in the wilderness. They're a primal. Very simple. But. And I've had. And I've thought about this very hard, like, just how they move. They. They move with the weather. They're so in tune with the nature. If they don't want you to see them, you'll never see them. If they don't want you to hear them, you won't hear them. If they want you to, you know, if you have an encounter or something, you know, I think it's a very. A very special thing. Obviously, I've heard people have really negative experiences with them. And a lot of it is, you know, I'm a very open person to that, so I'm open to a. A gentle experience with them. And obviously, you can't pick, you know, how things happen or when they happen. But I, you know, I feel that they are very intelligent. Very intelligent being. I think there's, you know, maybe something a little, you know, there's definitely something spiritual with them too. I really do appreciate a lot of the, like, the Native American view on, on what they are and they, you know the best thing is, you know I think yes, leave them alone. Give them the respect that they need. But I, I do think they're a very intelligent and you could say spiritual being is my, my view.

Wes (61:06)

Yeah, I could understand the way you feel and I appreciate you leaving that last portion in and I mean you could have left it out but just because it hasn't been my experience doesn't mean it doesn't go on. And thank you so much for coming on Sam and sharing what happened to you.

Sam (61:24)

Yeah, thanks Wes. I appreciate it and yeah it feels good to just kind of, you know, talk about it so thank you.

Wes (61:31)

Thanks so much Sam. And that's it for tonight everyone. Remember if you've had an encounter, shoot me an email. My email address is wesasquatchchronicles.com have a great weekend everyone. Sam sa.