Caller 1 (3:23)

That's not the crop top part.

Dan Savage (3:24)

I'm.

Dan Savage (3:24)

No. What were we looking at?

Caller 1 (3:26)

Well,

Dan Savage (3:28)

the phrasing of it sounds a little bit inappropriate. I didn't see it.

Caller 2 (3:32)

You said it.

Dan Savage (3:33)

Okay, I'm not going to say that. Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, I mean, well, what they want you to do. Exactly.

Dan Savage (3:43)

That's what they're asking you to do.

Dan Savage (3:46)

You got to do what they want you to do. We all want to help the city of la. We're doing what we can. Yes. They had to know. They had to know. They are adults. They had to know. All right, now two assholes. In the news, scientists discovered the first hole pick ever taken. It wasn't taken with the first gen smartphone. It wasn't taken with a Polaroid 60 years ago. It was taken with mud, boiling hot mud, 300 million years ago. That is when a volcano erupted in what is now central Germany. Because of course, the world's first hole pick was taken in Germany. And after the eruption, a tiny reptile squatting nearby was. Or a tiny reptile with its butt in the air. Whatever the Paleozoic era's Bergain was. That tiny reptile was buried under 100ft of boiling hot mud. And the little guy's cloaca is clearly visible in what is now the fossil record of that eventful day. The scientist who discovered this fossil, this very important first hole pick in world history, Jacob Vinther, a paleontologist at the University of Bristol, described the cloaca to Scientific American as the Swiss army knife of rear openings. One hole for everything. Pooping, peeing, sex and laying eggs. Which means this tiny reptile, if it showed up at our era's Burgain, would be let right in. So next time you send a hole pick to someone, think of how easy you have it. You just had to bend over, point and click. You didn't have to get buried in 100ft of boiling hot mud and wait 300 million years for your fossil to download. All right, one more asshole to talk about. Unsolicited pics of this asshole fill my news feed every day and yours, too. You know the asshole I mean? I am not going to say his name. This asshole was asked over the weekend whether Americans in the United States were going to die on US soil as a result of the war he started in the Middle East. And you know what this asshole said? I have the tape. I am not going to make you listen to it. I cannot stand the sound of his voice, so I'm just going to read it. Asked if US Citizens would die on US soil as a result of the war he started in and on Iran, he said, I guess some people will die when you go to war, some people will die. Okay, okay. People are already dying. Thousands of people are already dead. I just want to say, if he's allowed to be this unbothered by the thought of our deaths, by the thought of your death, by the thought of my death, we are allowed to be unbothered by the thought of his. And by unbothered, I mean positively fucking delighted. We did what we always do around here when we get an unsolicited pic or news story about that asshole. We bought another bottle of champagne at the little wine shop near our house and put it in the basement for the big day. We have about, I don't know, 300, 400, 2000 bottles of champagne in the basement already. Our plan for the big day, the day he dies, join the street party, pass all that champagne out to all of our friends and neighbors, and then do what we did the night he won in 2016. Get really drunk and ride the D. All right, coming up on today's show, lots of our callers are telling us that the Epstein files are messing with their heads. We're going to talk about that Then, after a bad experience, a man asks if it's wrong to mention sex, the particular kind of sex he is interested in on his dating profiles. And a woman who is leaving her abusive marriage asked me and is asking you, my listeners, for a pep talk. And then on the Magnum version of the show, which you can and should subscribe to, at Savage Love, a trans woman is struggling with anger at CIS people and non binary people and gay people and lesbians. I brought on Hayden Johnson, a trans comedian with at least one CIS boyfriend, to talk about how trans people like her are managing to keep a sense of humor at this dark time and not hating on all CIS people, and certainly not hating on non binary people that's on the Magnum that you can subscribe to at Savage Love. And this week I am putting out a special extra show for Magnum subs. Because you, me and everyone we know really can't get enough of heated rivalry. I brought my pal on the show, TV expert Matt Baum, author of a very entertaining history of the representation of gay characters on tv, to talk about the horny hockey show that will come out on Thursday. Again, just for my Magnum subs. And hey, if you're not a Magnum sub, when you become a Magnum sub, you get access to bonus shows like My Convo with Matt. You get Sex and politics. You get the Lovecast with no ads Invites to Savage Love Live Zoom Hangouts More questions and more answers in Savage Love. The column Becoming a Magnum Sub is a great way to support the work we're doing here at Savage Love International World Headquarters. We appreciate your support so much. All right, onto the first question. This episode is brought to you by VB Health Dr. Formulated supplements that work to learn more about Load, Boost, Drive Boost and soaking wet and to get 10% off, visit VB Health and use the Code Savage.

Dan Savage (9:03)

This episode of the Lovecast is brought to you by the good folks at Squarespace. They make it easy to build a beautiful website, blog or online store. Head on over to squarespace.com savage for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use the offer Code savage to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. This episode is brought to you by mill odorless, effortless, fully automated food recycler. Try mill risk free for 90 days and get $75 off@mill.com savage and use savage at checkout.

Caller 3 (9:35)

Hi Dan, I'm a mid-30s straight cis male living in a metro area in the US. I'm attractive, successful and fit and I'm changing my voice for this cult. You see, about a year ago after my divorce, I had a phase. I was a daddy for younger women in university. Found an ample pool of young women who want a spectrum of relationship types from a completely transactional sugar daddy to a Dom daddy dynamic, and each has led to better outcomes than most traditional relationship types have experienced. Everyone gets what they want for that period of time in their life and both parties are satisfied. In fact, it led me to my current partner with whom I am now in a committed relationship. Wish me luck. I understand this dynamic is not accepted by most, but all these encounters have been through consensual online apps where age ranges are set in other Words both parties knew what they were doing. Funny enough, my high range was set near to my age and I matched with younger women more often. I do now have somewhat of an ethics concern, which has been amplified by the files. They have to be mentioned in this context. Don't get it twisted. They're gross. There are disgusting and terrible victims, need justice and they are par exemplar of older successful males taking advantage of younger females to detriment. I guess the cultural zeitgeist is giving me some guilt. So how do we talk about this and where do you draw the line? Should I have not matched with younger women who also want an older man for their own pleasure? I feel like this should be a bigger conversation because while the legal limit is clear, the ethical line is blurry and there are far more young women who want a daddy than like to admit it.

Dan Savage (11:37)

There are terrible men out there doing terrible things to young women. That is all over the Epstein files. Trafficking, abuse, rape, coercion, the singling out of vulnerable young women to manipulate and take advantage of and really harm. Doesn't sound like you're guilty of that. You got on the apps and you were introduced to via the apps. Young women who are interested, who are interested in you, an older man, not that much older. You're in your 30s. The young women that you were being matched with were adults. They were 18 and over. So we're talking about at most age gap year of 15ish years or less. And you can be an ethical actor and a dom daddy. You can be brought together with somebody on an app who has an interest in the kind of emotional or sexual dynamic that interests you and talk with that person and get their consent and have some respect for their agency. There are young women out there who are into kink. There are young women out there who are aroused by power exchange and power imbalances. You think about human beings and human sexuality and you zoom out. We are at once on the left told that any sort of imbalance of power is evidence that the relationship couldn't possibly be consensual. And then you see people in consensual relationships where there is no power imbalance, just for fun, manufacturing them, creating a DS dynamic and a relationship of equals. There is just something about power that arouses us as the primates that we are, the status conscious primates that we are, who are constantly aware of where we fall in the hierarchy. And to be able to toy with that and play with that is a way of taking some of the power back from that and if it's consensual, it is consensual. Now someone might consent to something under duress and that could make their consent meaningless. And there are people out there who will be technically correct about obtaining consent, but who know or should know that they obtained consent under duress or a dubious kind of consent and took that as license. And that is an unethical actor. You don't strike me as an unethical actor. You seem very conscientious, a little hand wringy even. And I think that's good. And that should be encouraged. Anybody who's out there on one of the kink apps seeking people who are DOMs or subs, better to err on the side of more hand wringing and more conversation and more time invested in making sure that it is consensual and mutually pleasurable. And that seems to have been your experience in these relationships. And you know, we only have your word to go on here. But the women that you were with also enjoyed their time with you. In fact, one of the women that you were with, who you were brought together by these apps in a sugar baby or dom daddy arrangement is now your partner in a committed exclusive relationship, which I love, because I love it when a committed, loving relationship had a kind of sleazy start. Whether it's the friends and family version of the story of how you met and then the real version that only your best friends and sex advice podcast hosts get to know about, I think the release of the Epstein files, if it puts it in people's heads that they don't want to be that kind of monster, that they want the air on the side of making sure, absolutely sure, that the person that they're with wants to be with them for their own reasons, because of their own desires or needs, then maybe some good will come of it. But it would be a shame the release of the Epstein files aren't having any impact on Donald Trump. It would be a shame if the takeaway from the release of the Epstein files is that people who could be out there behaving ethically conscientiously and meeting the needs of people whose they're capable of meeting consenting adults with agency and desires of their own, if those people, guys like you, left apps like those en masse, leaving them just to the Epstein's and the Trumps. That would be a shame and a tragedy.

Caller 4 (16:29)

Hi Dan, 30 something queer person in the Northwest calling about something. I can't be the only one who feels this way. All this Epstein file stuff all this pedophiles and rapists in the news. My brain just can't stop thinking about it. I'm dreaming about it, I'm thinking about it, I'm talking to people about it. And it's really fucked with my libido. And it's also got me in my head of like, I don't know. I think it's making me feel crazy. Talk, talk. Thinking about pedophilia all the time is making me feel gross and not horny. And besides turning off the news, what are we to do? What are normal, non pedophilic people that just want to have sex with their lovers supposed to do here?

Dan Savage (17:14)

You can turn off the news. You rule out turning off the news. You say, besides turning off the news, what can I do? You can turn off the fucking news. You can take a fucking break. That's your question. What are normal, non pedophilic people who just want to have sex with their lovers supposed to do here? I think you should have normal, non pedophilic sex with your lovers. I don't think that you should see the sex that you have with the adults that you have sex with who want to have sex with you. Through the prism of the sexual abuse of minors. This isn't the first scandal involving powerful institutions, powerful people, and the systematic rape and abuse of children. Have you heard of this thing called the Catholic Church? Yeah, we've seen this before. And it can burst into our consciousness. There can be a terrible news dump, a terrible story, a terrible scandal can stumble into public view. And because we are all sexual beings who experience desire and sometimes taboo or transgressive desires that we do not act on because we are moral and ethical people, we can feel implicated in crimes that we had nothing to do with and didn't commit. Or we can feel as if the sex we do have is somehow tainted by what is not sex, is abuse, is rape, is violation. And it can just sometimes require an act of will for us to push those two things further apart, to see the sex that we have with consenting adult partners, the non pedophilic, normal, healthy sex we have with our adult consenting partners, we can push that away. We can will ourselves to make a clearer distinction. And I think having that kind of consensual, adult, normal, non pedophilic sex with our partners that creates joy and connection and intimacy and cements bonds helps make that distinction or make it starker. The difference between what you do with your partner and what Jeffrey Epstein and everyone implicated in the Epstein files did with their victims. If you're lumping those things together consciously or subconsciously, you're guilty of a category error there. What happened on that island to those girls and on that plane and in those fucking mansions in Palm Springs bears, I want to say, no resemblance. Bears some resemblance because it is driven by Eros improperly channeled abuse. And what you have is Eros properly channeled. You know, after 9 11, a lot of people talked about whether their libidos cratered or soared. And a lot of people went out there and had what they called terror sex. In the wake of it, the bars in Lower Manhattan were full of people hooking the fuck up. During COVID there were people whose libidos cratered and people whose libidos soared. And eventually people whose cratered sort of evened back out, rose back up. If you're not feeling sexual right now, you don't have to force yourself to be sexual to make the distinction I was talking about. It might be helpful for you to make between rape and the sex that you have with your partners. And you can just trust that just after Covid, for people who libido's tanked and after 911 for people whose libido's tanked, your libido will kick back into gear as you have more time to process this horror. I think though, that it can be helpful to lean into it, to lean into healthy sexuality when you have examples out there, as I did growing up in the Catholic Church, of unhealthy sexuality and rape and abuse and systematic violation of children. That was going on all around me as we found out. And nothing made me feel better about the sexual person I was than having the kind of sex with my sex partners that I had that was bore no resemblance to the rape of children by priests. Just as I assume the sex that you have with your partner bears no resemblance to anything that you've encountered reading about the Epstein files.

Dan Savage (21:49)

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Caller 1 (23:07)

Hey, Dan Rand Into a little problem recently with my dating life with sex positivity. Somebody not being sex positive. Started seeing somebody recently and you know,

Dan Savage (23:17)

she was pretty cool.

Caller 1 (23:18)

She was fit and intelligent and very attractive and the sex was fantastic. And we ran into a little roadblock in the beginning where I shared my completely negative STI results with her and she kind of freaked out about it and she was like, why would you share these? And why did I think she thought that I was exposed and we were having unprotected sex. I was not having sex with anybody else. We got through that, but it was definitely a red flag and then decided to be exclusive. And then a few weeks later, I was discussing an issue with a female friend about something that she she was setting up a threesome for a different female friend for her birthday. And you know, there was some drama with the boyfriend about this and yada, yada, yada, I mentioned this to my girlfriend and it caused a huge freaking problem to the point that she broke up with me and said something like, I wish all your poor girlfriends would find their own dating site and stop contaminating the dating pool for the rest of us. And I was shocked. I was like, this is wild stuff to me because I'm coming from kind of, you know, a more sex positive dating culture and I don't know what this is about. So I'm trying to think of a way to kind of assess this early on in the dating because this was two months and and I thought she was pretty great and she was not. I don't think it's a good idea to put anything sex related on a dating profile because as a straight guy dating women, I think there's a lot of guys out there that are crappy and women are looking for any indicator that a guy might be just looking for sex. And that's not what I'M looking for. So I don't think I can put, you know, must be sex positive and a dating profile. Because I think a lot of women will see that word sex and go, eh, he's only interested in sex. Bye. So I'm trying to come up with a way to sort of assess this early on in the dating, you know, first, second, third date without putting sex on my dating profile. And I think you might, I think you might have an interesting perspective.

Dan Savage (25:40)

It was a bad sign when you told her about your STI results and she reacted so negatively. It's good to share the results of a regular STI test with someone that you're having sex with, particularly someone you're having unprotected sex with. When you began having unprotected sex together, you were, each of you were taking a chance that the other was not currently carrying a sexually transmitted infection and didn't pose a risk. And then the results of your STI test were a confirmation that that was true about you. And the fact that she freaked out about it, as if you were implying something about her or guilting her somehow into going out and getting a full battery of STI tests herself, that was a bad sign. And then came the freak out about your female friends and how she wishes your whore female friends would stop polluting the dating pool. And they need apps of their own. They do have apps of their own. Field adult friend finder. Open three find. There are plenty of apps out there, even OkCupid, even some mainstream apps for people who want to have three ways and sex adventures. And there's Farmers Only and Christian Mingle, and lots of sites for people who don't want to have crazy sexual adventures. So it's entirely possible for this person to sequester herself from the kinds of whore friends of yours who might want to have three ways with their partners. Look, you met somebody who was hot, fit, intelligent, attractive, and the sex was good. That's how a relationship starts, how most relationships start. You meet somebody, you're into them, hopefully they're into you, the sex is good, and then you progress from there. Then you determine whether this person is in good working order, whether you enjoy spending time with this person when you're not just staring at their fit body and admiring their intelligence and basking in the glow of the great sex. That's dating. That's fucking and dating. And the discovery process. And what you discover during the discovery process is whether there is a chance that this could be an open ended, ongoing, potentially committed, loving relationship. And what you discovered is it wasn't possible with her if she wasn't in good working order. I don't know what you could possibly put on your website to prevent or on your profiles on the apps to head off at the pass or before the pass, attracting another person who freaks out about routine STI tests and the sharing of that information, which should be what everybody does, or freaks out that there are people out there having sex that she wouldn't want to have herself like three ways with their partners. That's only something you'll be able to discover about the women that you date in the future now that this relationship is over, now that this woman did you the favor of ending this relationship after you enter the discovery process again with some new partner. So don't put sex positive on your profile if you feel like that's going to turn off some women who will feel like all you want is sex or you're not interested in a commitment. And don't put must not be an immature lunatic on your profile either, because immature lunatics like this one, they don't think they're immature lunatics. So that wouldn't. That wouldn't keep her away from you, at least at the start either. Just continue to be you and open and honest and transparent about your feelings, your intentions, your expectations, and your STI test results when they come in next time, because you were having unprotected sex with your last partner, you will need to get a new battery of tests for your subsequent partner or partners. You continue to do you just as you've been doing you, and count your lucky stars you are no longer doing her.

Dan Savage (29:39)

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Caller 3 (31:08)

savage hey Dan, 40 year old straight Canadian here. I used to think I had mild ed but realized something recently. I always had issues from staying hard from when foreplay ended to putting the condom on and inserting. Now I've realized it's the condoms that's making me go somewhat limp. I've done Viagra and all that and it's still 5050 if I stay hard enough. Recently I've been going at it without the condom and found that I have absolutely no issue. What can I do? Obviously would like to be safer about it, but not sure what my options are.

Dan Savage (31:53)

So what you're telling me is that you're one of those rare penis having persons who prefer sex without a condom. How odd. How strange, how unique. Look, everybody with a dick would rather have sex without a condom. Here's a tip back from the days when we had to wear condoms to save our lives and we had to make them fucking work. You say you get hard, you pause to put on the condom the moment before penetration and then you begin to go limp. Put the condom on well before penetration, put the condom on as a part of foreplay, continue to go down on her while you stroke your dick with the condom on it. Or if you're having a same sex gay encounter, continue to eat his ass, getting it ready for your dick while the condom's already on your dick and you stroke your dick so that the condom comes to body temperature and it feels like a familiar part of you, an extension of you and your dick at the moment of penetration and not this thing that you had to interrupt the action for because the action is ongoing. Not this thing you had to interrupt the action for before the moment before penetration. Yeah, it will derail you if you stop to put the condom on the second before you want to stick your dick in. But yeah, there are some people who condoms throw them. Physically, it is not the same sensation with a condom, not as the sensation isn't as great. Although I would argue that once you're really going, once you're really the out of somebody, the sensation is very, very similar. And the proof, I think incontrovertible evidence that this is true is that a dude will be fucking with a condom. And it can happen that a condom breaks or tears without the dude becoming instantly aware that the condom broke. If there was really such a stark difference in sensation and a condom broke mid fuck, it would like your dick would feel like it got hit by lightning or something. You would instantly know. So yeah, I do buy it that a condom decreases sensation at the start, which is why you want to put the condom on well before you start and remind yourself as you get going that you'll reach a tipping point where it feels the same. For all intents and purposes, condom or no condom. But if you just can't wear condoms, you have lots of options. Oral sex, mutual masturbation, rolling around, toys, vibrators. And you can reserve penetrative PIV for regular established partners that you have negotiated with around having bareback sex exclusively going without condoms PIV bear. But that is something that you need to negotiate. So you'll want to keep those condoms on hand because your choice sometimes may be sex with a condom or no sex at all. I don't hope I would expect at those moments, like most men you will choose, you will condescend to have sex with a condom if required, then not to have sex at all. This episode of the Savage Lovecast is brought to you by Soaking Wet by VB Health, the world's first probiotic specifically designed for vaginal and vulva health and wellness. Kombucha. Save that for your gut health. When it comes to vaginal health, you need very specific probiotics and Soaking Wet from VB Health packs a punch with a blend of probiotics, prebiotics and vitamins that are like sending your vagina to a soothing spa. And not only does soaking wet combat BV and yeast infections, it really increases lubrication. Thus the name Soaking wet. Make every encounter slipperier, more slippery, sexier and downright sensational. It's time to get soaking wet and keep the good times coming and coming and coming and rest assured. Soaking Wet is formulated by medical doctors at VB Health. Visit soakingwet.com and use code SAVAGE for 10% off or click the link in

Caller 5 (36:03)

the episode Description Description hello, I'm 43 year old queer woman on the east coast of the United States and I have a question about developing a long distance relationship. Last summer I was in Europe and I worked during an event with someone who I formed A really, really strong connection with. We had a chance to explore that on the last night of the event. And I went back to Europe last month for a couple of weeks and had the chance to spend a weekend with her again. And it's almost like it, it reignited the thing for both of us of like, how can we do this? Like, how can we have a relationship across the ocean? I have never done that and I wouldn't consider myself very good or naturally inclined towards building a long distance relationship like that. But in this case I really want to. I know we're going to see each other again later this year. We have chances to work together through the hobby that we're both involved in. So I wanted to ask your advice about a new long distance relationship as it's developing. How can I get to know her better as a person? How can we make this work?

Dan Savage (37:23)

So I have some personal experience with what you describe with this kind of situation with the long distance relationship. Met my boyfriend in Europe in August, didn't see him again until the following May, then didn't see him again until that summer, then didn't see him again until that fall. How do you make it work? Well, you thank you lucky stars that you live in the Internet era because you can be an instant and constant communication with someone. You can text, you can email, you can video call, you can have cyber sex, you can have online sex. There's lots of ways now to keep an LDR fresh, growing and alive. And that's kind of what we did. We spent a lot of time talking and having video chats when we couldn't see each other. And we still do. I am in this long distance relationship 13 years later. I see my boyfriend as often as I can for as long as I can. But then months will go by where I can't see him. And it makes me very sad. I feel his absence acutely and it motivates me to write him a long email or get on the phone and have long open ended teenagers laying on the floor with the phone cradled up against their heads, kinds of conversations with each other. And it's in a way wonderful because Esther Perel says the desire is to want. And one of the problems that people in relationships who live together have to confront is how do you want what you have? And there's a little bit of constant want and ache that's built into the long distance relationship because you don't have that person with you all the time. You don't have them as much as you want them. And Then you do continue to want them intensely. And that is everybody talks about the downsides of the long distance relationship. That's one of the perks or benefits of the long distance relationship. When it comes to relationships of many years, and ours is a relationship of many years now, the question is always, how do you keep the spark alive? Well, in a long distance relationship, I think it's a little easier to keep that spark alive because of the absence, because of the time you spend apart. So how do you make it work? Text, write, call, video messaging, video calls, zoom and go. Go to see her as often as you can and have her come to see you if she's willing to step foot in this country while they're throwing British tourists into ice detention cells for weeks at a time before deporting them. Oh my fucking God. I don't know why anyone would come here from Europe right now. But if she's willing to risk it to be with you, let her come. And lady, my God, if it works out, marry her. Go get that EU passport, get the fuck off the Titanic.

Caller 6 (40:27)

Hi, Dan. Nancy and the tech savvy at risk youth. I'm 34 years old and right in the middle of leaving my abusive husband, who I've been with for nearly a decade and married for the last years. He's been become increasingly volatile and recently got physical during an argument, at which point I knew it was time to go. And no, I'm making the right decision and I'm lucky to be able to lean on an incredible support system as I, as I go through this. But as someone who was raised to be a good Catholic girl and who's always dreamed of being a parent, there's still a voice in my head telling me that I'm giving up on my marriage vows and that 34 is too old to start over. I'm focused on myself right now and definitely don't plan on pursuing any new relationships for a good long while. And I'm so, so grateful that I didn't scramble my DNA together with this asshole, to use your parlance, Dan. But I'd love to hear from you and your listeners that 34 is still young and that I have a shot at creating the family that I've always wanted. Just looking for a pep talk.

Dan Savage (41:31)

34, I say from my current vantage point, is so young. You have plenty of time. You have decades to meet new people, to find a new partner, to find a decent, loving, kind, generous male partner. Some man who deserves you, who wants to have kids and a family and isn't violent. They're out there. Those good guys are out there. And absolutely you should leave a man who is violent. It can be scary to be 30 something, early 30s. And we're going to round you down to early 30s because from my vantage point, 34 sounds like early 30s. Still scary to be early 30s and single again. I was in a relationship and it lasted a year and it was a total shit show and broke up and I was 30 and I just thought, yeah, maybe I can't do this thing. And three months later I turned around and met Terry in a bar. You just don't know who you're going to run into when you start moving through the world again free of the encumbrance that is not just your shitty soon to be ex husband, but the zap on your head that is the way you were brought up. What you were taught to believe about sex and relationships and desire by your Catholic family, Catholic parents, nuns, if you're. You had any significant exposure to nuns in childhood. I had a lot of exposure to nuns in childhood. Everyone who wasn't in a relationship had never been in a relationship. All these priests and nuns, boy did they have opinions about how relationships ought to work. And I had to let all that go and I did and I'm better for it. And you get to let all that go now. You could think of it as a lovely parting gift. As you leave this relationship, this opportunity, you have to let go of the bullshit that you were told about how relationships should work and what a good Catholic woman is and does and what's expected of her. I let go of the expectations of what a good Catholic boy is does and what's expected of him when I was a teenager. You need to let it go now. And if I could do it as a teenager on the north side of Chicago in the early 80s, you can certain do it now. It's a 34 year old grown ass adult woman in 2026. It's scary. It's a little like coming out, getting a divorce. It's a little like coming out where all the bad comes immediately you come out. You tell your parents you're gay, you tell your friends you're gay, you lose friends, you're estranged from your family, people have lost jobs, people have had to move. It's not as bad now as it used to be, but individual results may vary and it can still be really terrible. And I'm often telling people who are coming out to brace themselves that it's gonna be a shit show and all the bad lands on you all at once like a piano falling on you or 2,000 pounds of shit. And it might feel in that moment like it wasn't worth it because all this grief and then a couple years later, you've made some friends, you've had some relationships. If you're gay and you came out, you've sucked some dick, maybe you've gotten your heart broken, maybe you've fallen in love. And then you look back and you think, okay, it was worth it. It was worth having that piano fall on me. It was worth the price that I paid to be myself. And I feel like the same will happen for you a couple of years from now, as awful it is now. Right now you're getting a divorce. Right now you're getting this awful man out of your life. You're having to tell your family you're getting divorced. You feel like you're losing face. Maybe you're getting guilt tripped by your still Catholic parents about what you're doing and being encouraged to stay and try and make it work with this violent man. And you're going to push back against all of that, all of those expectations, and you're going to say no. And you're going to come out and get the fuck divorced. You're going to get out of this marriage and get divorced, and it's going to be awful. And then two, three years from now, there's going to be new people in your life. You dig in your mouth, be like me when I was 18 years old, and you're going to think, well, if I hadn't gone through that, if I hadn't have went and stood under the falling piano or the £2,000 of shit, I wouldn't have all these wonderful new things in my life, new people in my life. I wouldn't have had these amazing experiences, gone places, done things, done people, been done by people, if I hadn't have kicked down the closet door. And for you, it's going to be kicked down not quite a closet, but the cage door, the prison that you're in, the prison of the expectations of the faith in which you were raised and the kind of woman that you thought you had to be. There's the kind of guy I thought I had to be when I was 15 years old and I realized I didn't have to be that kind of guy. And you don't have to be that kind of girl. You don't have to be that Catholic girl. You get to be you. Good luck. This is the worst part, the hardest part. And it will, if I may coin, slash revive a phrase here, it will get better. All right, time for the listener feedback portion of the show. First up, a couple of comments listeners left in the comment thread about last week's show. If you remember, last week I asked listeners to please jump into the comments and share some upbeat, positive stories about sex and the good it did in their lives to balance out all the downbeat negative stories about sex dominating the news. And you guys delivered. Here are my two faves says Vithoki, 90 I was married for 27 years to my college sweetheart. I was his first, he was my second. And the sex never got any better. It was painful due to, as I now know, the complete lack of foreplay. I never once came with him. The first time I had sex that included oral as foreplay, I came during PIV and my mind was blown. So I started saying yes. Yes to being a unicorn, yes to play parties, yes to being part of an orgy. And now for the past year, I've been in an amazing relationship with a man 11 years my junior who is open to everything. Threesome sex parties, even pegging divorcing me was the best thing my ex husband ever did for me. Thank you for sharing. Bethoki, 90 and I'm just gonna say it. Age gap relationships are good actually says onwards. 47 year old woman in a sexless marriage. For 19 years I thought that part of my life was over. Then one day a new guy was hired at my job. The chemistry was immediate, we flirted and eventually I wound up at his house drinking a glass of wine while he played Bob Clock on the piano. Then he stopped, turned, looked at me and said, I can't stop thinking about you. My heart nearly burst. We kissed, we had sex, and then on the way home, Spotify randomly played Happy by Pharrell Williams, a song I never listened to before I turned it all the way up. For the last five years, that guy from work has been my fwb. Workplace romances, I'll just say it, are good and actually more positive stories about sex in that comment thread on last week's show and lots of criticism for my response to the caller whose friend was giving a blowjob to a guy that she really wasn't that into for 45 long ass minutes. And that blowjob ended with that guy pissing in the mouth of the caller's friend. If you didn't like my advice for that caller, you'll find plenty of people who agree with you in the comment thread. As ever, if You've got something to say about something I said on the show, go to Savage Love and say it in the comment thread. And now, Savage Love listeners who left voicemails on our answering machine about last week's show get to have, as they always do, the last word on this week's show.

Caller 4 (49:24)

Hi, this is a comment on episode 1008 for the caller whose friend boyfriend peed in her mouth accidentally. I actually disagree with Dan's advice. My husband and I have been together for 24 years and early on this happened to me. He was incredibly apologetic and embarrassed and it was certainly not the best surprise. And yes, it was a little bit hard to suck his dick again for the short term, but We've been together 24 years. Never happened again. They say if he's genuinely apologetic, trust him. And if there's something more worth considering or continuing the relationship, don't let this hold you back.

Caller 2 (50:11)

This is a response to episode 1008, the caller asking if BDSM is ever used as a form of self harm. As Dan said in his response, I would actually be less concerned about this young person's intentions and if they're using BDSM as a form of self harm, and more concerned about the caller's partner, a man in his 50s who is engaging in extreme kink with someone who is so disempowered on so many fronts. If there's anything I've learned in years of extreme kink play, engaging in such play, even with all the prep in the world, can still bring up feelings and incidents in a scene that you don't expect. You could get seriously hurt or you could have a negative emotional response. It can be a lot of fun to explore kinky edge play, but it comes with risks, and most those risks are for the bottom. So any good top will ensure that a bottom can, at minimum, freely advocate for themselves. Caller, you said this woman has no income, she can't drive herself, she has a history of abuse, and she has a 30 year age gap with your partner. Among other things, this makes her extremely vulnerable. People that are vulnerable are more likely to put themselves at risk. If the payoff for that risk is affection, attention, sex, basically any kind of people pleasing that leads to validation. Your partner is at best an idiot and at worst a totally toxic user of vulnerable people who has no business engaging in such play. I dump him.

Caller 5 (51:33)

Hi Dan, this comment is in response to the woman from episode 1008 who likes to eat edibles before she and her male partner get it on, but they get cottonmouth There's a product that I really love called Flints Mints. It's spelled F L I N TTs and they have a flower extract that makes you drool. I'm obsessed with them. I'm an online sex worker and I use them for my spit content, but also for sloppy blowjobs.

Dan Savage (52:03)

And we are going to leave it there. Got a sex problem? Got a relationship issue? Go to Savage Love Askdan to record your question directly onto our website. Or you can record a voice memo on your very own phone and email it to us at Qavage Love. Or you can call us on our landline at 206-302-2064 and leave us a message on our answering machine. And hey, if you tried something new and you want to share all the dirty details with me and my listeners, send us an email about what you did to Qavage Love and you might be my next guest on after action report. The Hump 2026 Spring Tour is in full swing and no hump season is complete without a few cream pies in celebration of National Pie Day Day this month. Use code creampie at checkout@humfilmfest.com to get $3.14 off tickets to Hump valid until midnight Pacific on March 14th at participating venues. Check out humpfilmfest.com where you can watch the trailer and you can get tickets to a screening in a city near you. Follow me on bluesky@dansavage. Follow me on Instagram at Dan Savage. Follow Hayden Johnson on Instagram at haydenjohnson. The Savage Lovecast is produced every week by Nancy Hartunian and me and the tech savvy at Risk youth. We will all be back at you next week. Another installment of the Savage Lovecast. Thank you so much for telling.