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- [00:00]
A
You're listening to the Savage Lovecast, Dan Savage's sex and relationship show for grown ups. If you're under 18, get out of here, youngin. If you're stuck in a relationship quandary, or if you're looking for sexual harmony,
- [00:18]
B
well, there's nothing you can't ask on the Savage Lovecast.
- [00:27]
A
I should have watched the Oscars this weekend. I didn't. I never watched the Oscars. Not even the prospect of Conor and Hudson walking the red carpet could get me to watch. And I should have watched that new documentary on Netflix about the toxic male influencers out there poisoning the brains of our boys Inside the Manosphere by BBC documentarian and cultural critic Louis Thoreau. And I want to watch it. And I will. And you should too, Especially if you have boys. But I didn't. Not this weekend. I couldn't because I had a busy weekend. Seeing the boyfriend again after three months recovering from jet lag, which gets harder as you age. What a drag it is getting old and throwing my boyfriend a birthday party. I had my hands full this weekend. And not just my hands. Ha ha ha. I also couldn't pay too much attention to the poly discourse online, which is raging again. The current firestorm was kicked off by the release of Lindy West's new memoir, Adult Braces, which is about her journey into polyamory, an even bigger firestorm than the absolutely enormous one kicked off by the publication less than two years ago of Molly Rodham Winter's A Memoir of an Open Marriage, which was about Winter's journey into polyamory. Rachel Krantz wrote about her journey into polyamory, An Open An Uncensored Memoir of Love, Liberation and Non monogamy. Sophie Lucido Johnson wrote about her journey into polyamory in Many A Memoir of Polyamory and Finding Love Loves. And Sadie Smith wrote about her journey into polyamory and Open all the Way, confirming confessions from My Open Marriage. And I could go on. Lots of the exact same people, some of them awful but some of them sympathetic, jumped online this week to make the same point about West's memoir that they made about Winters. It wasn't her idea initially. Opening up the relationship was his idea. Natalie Davis, who's going to be a guest on the podcast soon, wrote about her journey into polyamory and saying, yes, my adventures in polyamory. And in Davis's case, opening up the relationship was his idea, just like it was in West's and Winter's. It was her husband's idea, an idea that only occurred to Davis's husband after she caught him cheating twice. It seems that a lot of journeys into polyamory, at least the ones we read about in memoirs, begin when the husband or boyfriend demands an open relationship or gets caught cheating and doesn't want to stop. Now, I haven't read all the books I just mentioned. I didn't even list all the Pauli memoirs currently out. So I don't know if all these journeys started in the exact same way. I don't know if poly was his idea in all of these cases. But there is something or something else that all of the big poly memoirs that have come out in the last decade or so have in common. All written by women, written by women who were puds, at least at first, Poly under duress, but who eventually came around and embraced polyamory. There are a lot of married people out there, married women out there in poly relationships that they love. People like West, Winter and Davis who. Who were all puds at first, now notallpuds. Not all women who reluctantly agree to an open relationship or polyamorous relationship wind up falling in love with polyamory or embracing it or even staying with the person who demanded it of them. If I had to guess, I would say there are probably more divorced former puds out there than puds who woke up one morning and thought to themselves, hey, this thing that was imposed on me that I hated at first is actually the thing I wanted all along. But puds that stay unhappy get divorces. So they aren't the ones writing memoirs about their journeys into polyamory because they didn't journey in. They journeyed the fuck out. Emma Camp, an opinion columnist for the Wall Street Journal who's working on a book about Gen Z and sex. Gonna be a short book considering how little sex Gen Z is having. I look forward to reading all 20 pages of it. Camp wrote a piece headlined, polyamory isn't progressive. I don't read the Wall Street Journal, and I don't want to give Rupert my money, so I can't read the piece. But Camp summarized her thoughts in a tweet. The dust up over Lindy West's new memoir brought into public view an uncomfortable truth. Almost always when a straight couple opens their relationship, it's because the male partner is using the polyamorous label to launder his desire to cheat. Almost always that may be true, and if you're going from just the memoirs, it certainly seems to be true, at least of the memoirs that published. But it's really hard to quantify. Almost always. And I don't think, actually I know for a fact that opening up a straight relationship isn't always his idea. I get calls every week from men who are puds. I get calls every week and letters from straight women trying to figure out how to ask their straight male husbands for an open relationship. But when I looked around for a poly memoir written by a guy, when I looked for a book written by a male pud, all I found was open by Andre Agassi, which turned out to be a memoir about tennis, not polyamory. Now, the memoir, the confessional memoir, the memoir about feelings and relationships, that's a genre dominated by women. Women write memoirs, women read memoirs. But to combat the impression or correct the misimpression created by all these poly memoirs written by women, I really feel like the next poly memoir that gets published, maybe the next two or three needs to be written by a man. And then once we've balanced the scales, once we've corrected the impression that it's always his idea or even almost always his idea, which it is not, maybe we take a break from writing, reading and reviewing poly memoirs for a while. And PS I get way more calls and letters from people who could be described as monogamous under duress, but no one writes think pieces about them for the Wall Street Journal. All right, coming up on today's show, a polite, submissive woman wonders how to set boundaries with an over demanding dom or doms. And the caller wants to know what I thought of Pillion, the new DS Dom, starring Alexander Skarsgard. Well, I am going to tell you. And a man who loves kissing more than anything finds himself married to a woman who has discovered long after the wedding that she hates kissing more, more than anything. And speaking of kissing, our Magnum guest this week, evolutionary biologist Dr. Matilda Brindle returns to the show, who's here to tell us about some new research she's done into the evolution and the evolutionary purpose of kissing. Oh, and we now know, thanks to her research and others, that your great great, great, great, great great great grandmother times 10 had a thing for hairy Neanderthal dudes. And is there kink in the animal kingdom? Dr. Brindle has the answer. All that coming up on today's show. Nancy, hit me with that first call. This episode is brought to you by Field, an app where curious people come to connect. Download Field on the App Store or Google Play and find out why so many of my listeners are already using it. This episode is brought to you by Helix Sleep, makers of the best mattresses ever. And right now my listeners get 27% off site wide when you go to helixsleep.com savage this episode is sponsored by Sundays for Dogs Dog food using the same ingredients and care you'd use when cooking for yourself and your family. And really dogs part of the family. Go to sundayfordogs.com savage50 and get 50% off your first order or just use code savage50 at checkout.
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C
Hey Dan, I have a question. I really don't want people to think that I'm weird, but the last three months of my life have been the most stressful months I've ever had with work, with relationships, with, with moving, with family deaths. And basically 10, 10 days ago, my grandmother died quite suddenly and I went back home for the funeral in the midst of kind of this whole stress period going on. And when I came back the night I came back quite late, I took a shower and then I touched myself in the shower. And when I came, I cried. I cried really hard like, and, and it was weird because I didn't feel sad. I felt like a release, like a relief. I felt like I was traumatized. But, but it came at the moment of orgasm, which was so strange. So I'm really freaking out about it and I don't know what happened and I can't talk to anybody about this. So what, what is this? What does this happen to other people?
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A
There's that moment when you're about to come, that moment when you climax where physically you're not in control of your body. At that moment you're going over the falls and there is this release and it is possible and it happens to people. You're not the only person who's had this kind of reaction to climax in a particularly stressful period of their lives. You've probably been bottling up a lot of emotional tension and holding onto it physically. And when you were coming in the shower, you weren't physically able to bottle yourself up anymore. You weren't able to hold on to that tension and grief. You weren't able to grip it physically anymore. And it all came pouring out. And isn't that grand? You had a good cry, you had a good orgasm that you needed to have. You experience self pleasure at a moment. You really needed to experience some pleasure and transcend the grief and the stress, work challenges and the move. And it all came pouring out of you, all these emotions that you were bottling up or setting aside to feel later when you had the time or the bandwidth. And then along comes this orgasm And a little post nut clarity that says, you know what? We're going to feel these feelings right now. At a moment when you were alone, you felt connected to your body, you were safe, it was private, and it all came pouring out in the shower. You say you didn't feel bad after, and I'm not surprised you don't feel you didn't feel bad in the moment after. Right now what you're doing is you're trying to reinterpret it somehow in a way that self pathologizing or pathologizing of this moment. And you just need to let it be what it was, a moment of physical release that triggered a moment of emotional release. It's very, very, very simple. First time I had sex after my mother died, I came and I cried. It's a thing that happens to people, you know, we can't be going to pieces. We walk around, we have to hold our shit together, we have to get through the funeral, we have to greet the people at the wake, we have to get the shit into the car for the move. We gotta unpack everything in the house. We have to take care of our relatives and our kids and families and pay our bills and sign our lease. There's just so much that we have to do that we just can't be going to pieces all the time. And then we need to. And our body and our psyche, erotic imagination will find that moment. Because if you had time to come, if you had time to masturbate in the shower, you also had time for that cry that you needed to have. You gave yourself an orgasm and your orgasm gave you a gift in that moment, that emotional release that you needed. Don't worry about it. Nothing is wrong with you. This was something very, very right.
- [12:10]
D
Hey, Dan Nanzian at Tech Savvy at race youth. 35, cisgendered straight male, married, two kids, living on the east Coast. I look back on my what I'm missing in life and I really miss making out. Like, I miss making out. Kissing. That's just something that's always been part of who I am and what I've enjoyed about, you know, my sexual experiences and things like that, like just coming of age and in. Ironically, around the same time, my wife realized that she never liked kissing, doesn't like making out, and at this point of her life, like really finds it's gross. It grosses her out. She doesn't do it. We don't share the pecs before walking out of the door. We don't make out now I'm trying to kind of figure out how to operate in this world. Like we have the conversations, she offered to kind of push the pecs. But the making out part is completely kind of off the table. And for me that's kind of always been a part of the experience, the sexual experience. And I kind of long for it. I miss it. It was just part of that for me. First relationships, great, wonderful parent, things like that. Wonderful co parent kids are amazing. Kind of lacking sex wise. We're only having sex maybe once a month. I think we're in a two month right now. But honestly I'm probably part of that problem because if I, I'm not connecting in not connecting, not having intimacy with, with kissing, with making out, rolling around and many different plethoras of what intimacy means, it kind of puts a dampen on the sex. And so I'm not too inclined to initiate it when it's just like doggy style, whatever, in and out, carrying on your day. So I'd love to get your thoughts on that. What am I supposed to do in this spot where like one of my needs aren't being met? Like this is a, this is a need of mine. I long for it.
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A
All right, you have two young kids. Frequency falling to once a month or so. When you have two young kids, which is not twice as much work as one kid, it's kind of one kid squared. It's kind of 10 times as much work as one kid. It becomes this never ending relay race. Frequency falling to once a month until your kids are a little older, able to take care of themselves, able to get themselves breakfast in the morning, put themselves to bed at night. Understandable, but that's not the issue here. The issue isn't we are not finding time for sex because we're stressed out parents of young children. The issue is there's a kind of intimacy that you require that makes sex meaningful to you, a kind of touch. And that's not going to be a part of your marriage anymore because your wife doesn't like to kiss. Your wife would rather be used as a flashlight when you do have sex just doggy style and get it over with, which maybe that's the kind of sex she prefers. Maybe she's a free use girl or maybe she was never that into sex but wanted to parent and loved you and does love you. You say that you have a good relationship and a nice home life and a wonderful home life and great kids, but you're being put in this position where you're probably going to cheat on her at some point because you're going to be. Your lips are going to be touch starved. And even if you don't throw yourself at temptation, temptation is probably going to come along at some point in the form of somebody who might just want to make out with you. And who could blame you for not being able to resist that temptation at that moment. I wouldn't blame you for not being able to resist the temptation at that moment. It's always the partner with lower sexual desire or wants to take, I think, things that are reasonable. Reasonable expectations a romantic and sexual partner might have, particularly one that you've already made a commitment to. Reasonable expectations, reasonable acts off the menu forever because they were never that into them or they've discovered they're not that into them. We're not talking about anal here or double penetration. We're talking about kissing. You're a married man. It's a monogamous relationship. She probably doesn't want you kissing anybody else. And this is a need of yours. Okay, how will it be accommodated? You probably don't want to make out with your wife with the thought in your head that she's hating every single second of this. So how do you accommodate this completely reasonable need of yours for this particular kind of intimacy without blowing up your marriage potentially? And the sad reality is you can't. You're either going to cheat or you're going to go to your wife and ask for permission to sometimes go out to the bars or go dancing or have a makeout buddy and she's going to say no, or she's going to be so angry that you even asked that it maybe doesn't end your marriage, but casts a pall over it. Listening to your call was reminded my conversation on episode 998 of the Savage Love cast When Subs Date Subs is the title of it with Dr. Alicia Walker, who's recently published a paper that she came on the show to discuss about why people cheat instead of asking or leaving. And it's because asking might wind up ending the relationship. Sometimes the ask becomes the leave. The other person leaves you because you asked. And so people regard cheating in certain circumstances as the less or the least. Not just, least worst option, as I sometimes describe it, but the least risky or dangerous option. You know, if you ask for permission and you get a no and you do it anyway and you get caught, you could blow your wonderful sounding marriage up. But I wouldn't blame you. I mean, I. God, I don't know what to say. Like, anytime I say okay, do what you need to do to stay married and stay sane. A whole bunch of people jump into the comments, really mad at me because I'd never tell a married person that I should tell a married person with small children, do the right thing and ask for permission to get some of this that they're not getting at home elsewhere or divorce because that's better. That's the right thing to do. Leaving your wife, tearing your kids home apart, that's the right thing to do. That's the thing you should do before you touch anybody else with your. Just your lips. I'm not even talking about your dick here, just your lips. Call me crazy, but I think discreetly, if this need of yours cannot be accommodated in your relationship and your wife will not agree to this reasonable need of yours being met at some point, yeah, I don't want to tell you to go out and look for it. Don't want to tell you to get on the apps. But I wouldn't blame you if an opportunity came along and you seized it. You're 34 years old. You're going to be on the planet another 50 fucking years. Is it reasonable for your wife to expect you never to be kissed again romantically by anyone for the rest of your life for 50 fucking years? I don't think that's reasonable. So do what you need to do to stay married and stay sane. This episode is brought to you by Sundays for Dogs. We have two dogs, Pepe and Triscuit. Pepe will eat literally anything. Triscuit is super fussy, which has been a problem for us because Triscuit is super tiny and we don't want Triscuit getting any smaller. I kind of wish Triskit could do this endorsement. I wish Triscuit could read this ad for you because she would tell you how much she appreciates having fresh and healthy food to eat. And when we feed her, usually with the food we used to feed her, she would walk away. She would hold out for maybe food from the table. Now with Sundaes for dogs, she pounces on it when we set her bowl down. Sundaes was founded by a veterinarian and mom who got tired of seeing so called premium dog foods full of fillers and synthetics. So she designed sundaes, air dried real food made in a human grade kitchen using the same ingredients and care you'd use to cook for yourself and your family. Every bite of sundaes is clean and made from real meat, fruits and veggies with no kibble. That means no weird ingredients you can't pronounce and no fillers compared to Kibble and other brands out there. Sundaes invests 50 times more in its ingredients to ensure premium quality and happy, healthy dogs. And it's easy. You just scoop and serve. No freezer, no thawing, no prep, no opening cans, no mess. Just nutrient rich, clean food that fuels their happiest, healthiest days so you get more out of them to share together. All of our dogs make the switch to Sundays we did and you should go right now to Sundays for dogs.com 50 to get 50% off your first order. Or you can use the code savage50 at checkout. I can't tell you really. I'm not exaggerating how much our dogs are Dogs love this new food that's suddenly in the house. Sundays for dogs that's 50% off your first order at Sundays for dogs.com Savage50 SundaysForDogs.com Savage50 or use code Savage50 at
- [21:42]
B
checkout I am a 37 year old cisgendered kinky lady. My question has to do with DOMSAV etiquette and best practices. So I fully admit my struggle with codependency and people pleasing. But I need help trying to set clear boundaries. So I was seeing this guy from FetLife. He was trying to expand submission IRL even when I was with my kids or my sick dad who's dying of cancer finally blocked him because he's an idiot. But he was my dom and I'm looking. I at least want to raise a flag for folks that are also submissive and looking for someone to dominate them in scenes, not in real life. So for me it's not like a lifestyle, it's just a fun thing I do and I really don't need somebody texting me all the time asking what I'm doing. So my question for Dan is how do enthusiastic subs set boundaries outside the bedroom?
- [22:52]
A
You use your words and you do what you did. This guy that you were enjoying some DS play with? I don't know. I can't tell from your question whether it was all online, all virtual, or there were IRL in person meet space interactions as well. He had expectations and he was making demands of you that didn't align with your interest in ds. You want to play cops and robbers for grownups with your pants off every once in a while. You don't want to have a 24, 7, 365 TPEDs relationship and you just have to say that out loud. Which I'M thinking you must have done or you might have done before. You blocked this guy, but this guy was being demanding in ways that made you feel uncomfortable and you set the ultimate boundary. You blocked that. So it doesn't seem to me like you need help setting boundaries. And it seems to me like you're call your question your experience that you just shared with other people out there listening, winning other subs is a great example of how it is done. You have clarity about what it is you want. Maybe the next time you meet a Dom, this is something you need to get out in front of. Maybe instead of waiting until Adam starts to make unreasonable demands, you could let him know in advance that it's just cops and robbers for grown ups with your pants off and orgasms for you, not 24 7. And you will submit to him and his control when you choose to give him that control when you choose to submit to him. But he shouldn't be texting you at three o' clock in the morning when you're taking care of your dying father. And my heart goes out to you and your family at this moment about cancer. He can't be texting you like that. You have commitments and there's a certain space in your life for this kind of play. And for you it is play. And you let him know when it's playtime and when it's not playtime. He could be your friend, he could be supportive, he could be kind. But he can't be dominant and he can't be ordering you around. Sleep it doesn't exactly come easy these days, but it helps. It helps a lot to have the most cozy, comfortable mattress. And that is my comforting, comfortable Helix Sleep Mattress. The helix lineup offers 20 unique mattresses, including the award winning Luxe collection that is ours. Of course, Terry will accept nothing less than luxe the Helix Elite Collection, a mattress designed for big and tall sleepers and even a mattress made just for kids. To figure out which mattress is right for you, take the Helix Sleep Quiz to find your perfect mattress in under two minutes and your personalized mattress will be shipped straight to your door free of charge. And with Helix's 100 night sleep trial, you can try out your new mattress, see how your body adjusts, and if you decide it's not the best fit, you are welcome to return it for a full refund. They offer models with memory foam layers to provide optimal pressure relief if you sleep on your side like I do, or models with a more responsive foam to cradle your body for essential support in stomach and back sleeping positions and other stomach and back positions too. Plus enhanced cooling features to keep you from overheating at night. Right now my listeners get 27% off site wide. Now is the time to invest in your coziness again. Go to helixleep.com savage for 27% off site wide. Make sure you enter Savage Lovecast into the post purchase survey so they know the Lovecast sent you. That's helixsleep.com Savage Dan, can you please
- [26:35]
B
discuss the movie Pillion? I found this movie incredibly unsettling. I've been to Hump several times and I found this more confronting than a lot of hump films. It was billed as the most romantic movie of the year. Were they just trolling or do people actually think that? Does Colin actually have this 247 submission kink or is he just putting up with bullshit from Ray because he thinks he's so hot? Can you please talk to a sub who does this and we can understand why they like it and why this is not just like abuse. Thanks.
- [27:09]
A
You know, when you think about it, Beauty and the Beast is really fucked up. Cinderella, Snow White, really fucked up. A lot of our fantasies about romance, a lot of the films, a lot of the narratives that we consume that we sit children down in front of the television to watch are really up. So there's this hideous monster and the spell won't be broken until he can lock a pretty girl up in his castle and force her to date him and get her to fall in love. What the is that movie about? And we let kids watch it. Particularly damaging for little girls. Puts it in their heads that their love can turn a monster into a decent human being. That, yeah, that your pussy is magic and it ain't. And people have to be in good working order. And you are not chemotherapy. Your love isn't chemotherapy. It's not going to cure somebody. And so I watched Pillion and I thought, okay, this is Beauty and the Beast for kinky gay kids or kinky young gay men. This is not real. It is a fairy tale. And it's a little fucked up in the way that ravishment fantasies can be fucked up. A lot of people have ravishment fantasies, AKA or fantasies formerly sometimes described as rape fantasies, but always about being taken by someone you wish to be taken by, to be ravished, to be leapt on by someone that you secretly kind of want to leap on you and by some miracle in exactly the way you wish to be left on. And that's what happens in Pillion, like the sub meets the Dom and they never have to talk about it. There's no negotiation, there's no discussion. Just the Dom kind of magically knows what the sub wants and needs before the sub knows it and imposes it on him. And he loves it and hates it and loves how much he hates it and hates how much he loves it. And there's a little bit of a hero's journey in this film. Spoiler alert for everybody. A little bit of hero's journey in this film where the sub is better and more assertive and better able to communicate about his desires and his limits at the end of the film than he was at the beginning of the film for having had this experience that as you watch it, you think, well, this isn't how it's done. Which is a feeling I've had watching romantic comedies and Beauty and the Fucking Beast. This isn't how it's done. And yet you can still become emotionally invested in the characters and in their story and in their romance, which I do think happens. Watching this film. Is it the most romantic film I've seen? No. Oh, my God. I found the sex in it depressing, not quite squalid, but just a little off putting. There wasn't intimacy or connection. There was just DS vibes which aren't enough to sustain a sexual connection, a romantic connection. So, yeah, I saw it, didn't love it, but didn't hate it. Still, I think it needs to be judged the same criteria that we judge films like Beauty and the Beast or Stories, Rom coms, romantic comedies where we see somebody who you know has been rejected and refuses to take no for an answer and somehow gets the girl in the end. That's stalking in real life, but somehow that's romance and movies. Yeah, this, what you see in pillion in real life is abusive, but in somebody's fantasy about magically meeting a hot guy who abuses you in precisely the ways you wish to be abused. It's a romance, It's a fantasy. What it isn't is a how to manual. What it isn't is best practices when it comes to DS sex or BDSM sex or gay sex or anything else, so long as you don't view it expecting it to be. That you can click into it and enjoy it and enjoy the journey that the characters are on together, but you have to see it as a very fucked up Beauty and the Beast with a tall Scandinavian dude with a giant pierced cock stepping into the role of beast. This episode is brought to you by FI eeld, the dating app you keep hearing about on this show. I hardly need to endorse Field if you're a regular listener. You have heard so many of my other regular listeners endorse Field already themselves, organically, because they're using it. And why are they using it? Because Field meets people where they are. Swipe culture. Not a thing. On Field, you can browse profiles without having to say yes or no right away, and take your time making intentional decisions about who you engage with. Put your interests and desires right on your profile. Desires like being a brat, exploring DS or bdsm, and even friendship. Field supports honesty in its very architecture. Your bio can be as long as you like, but if you have something you only want to say to people you're vibing with that you've connected with, you can write a hidden bio which you choose when to share with potential future lovers and friends. And active consent is embedded into the very design of Field. For example, DM'd photos with nudity are automatically blurred to give the recipient the opportunity to decide for themselves if they want to see them. And Field has a new feature called Reflections. It's designed to reveal you to yourself what you desire. The relationship style that works best for you. Your boundaries. By answering these deeper questions about yourself, you can reflect before you connect. What are my actual boundaries? What do I deeply desire? What type of relationship do I really want? If you have the language to say what you want, if you can use your words, you will be so much closer to getting what you want. You know, it sounds a lot like the advice I give people on this show. Know thyself. Little introspection. Use your words. Try Reflections right now by visiting Field co Reflections, or by downloading Field on the App Store or Google Play Field. It's where it's at and it's where my people are at. And if you're one of my people, you're going to want to get on Field.
- [33:44]
B
Hi Dan, Something I want to ask about is finding women partners who are tops or doms. It's really something I've struggled with while I've been dating. When I bring it up, I often find people or women who I'm dating. They're often not interested in it or uncomfortable with it or, you know, even it doesn't turn them on. And so that's kind of the question is where? How do I go about finding someone who's into this? Or are there any better avenues apart from just casual dating? I've tried dating apps, but it's frankly been quite difficult.
- [34:26]
A
You can Find a dominant woman. Dominant women are scarce. There's a supply and demand issue when it comes to subby guys looking for dominant women. That's why dominant women can charge 300, $400 an hour to dominate men, whereas dominant men can't charge subby women those same rates. So you can find one or you can build one. A lot of people out there have DS relationships, have DS dynamics with partners who fell in love with them and grew into their kink together with them. They were motivated to explore their partner's kink with their partner because they loved their partner and wanted to make them happy in the best situations, awaken something in them that was there or it was a graft that took. I know people in dom sub relationships. I know subvi guys with dominant girlfriends or wives and I can't think of one where the wife or girlfriend, although they may have. There may have been clues or hints along the way, but I don't know of one where the wife or girlfriend was a full blown self conceptualized dom before they met a subby guy that they fell in love with. I often joke when I talk about gay men in kink that there's two kinds of gay guys that you meet at the big kink fetish events. You meet the guy who's tying himself up when he was 12 and you meet the guy who fell in love with that guy when he was 22 or 32 and got kinky for that guy. That's what you have to do here. You have to be the best possible version of yourself, the most desirable possible version of yourself. And you need to date women. And then when that moment comes to disclose your kinks, to lay your kink cards on the table, just be honest about the fact that it's always turned you on, the idea of being submissive to a dominant woman. You say that you've shared this with some women and it didn't turn them on. Okay, that's fine. What I would like to know what I would ask the woman that you disclosed that to if she were my bestie and came to me, was, all right, doesn't turn you on? Does it turn you off? Which is a different question. Doesn't turn me on. Wasn't my idea. Wasn't something I thought about is different than the idea repulses me or it's a libido killer or it makes it impossible for me to be intimate with this person because like the emotional dynamics doesn't work for me. But if it doesn't turn them off, maybe it's something that you could low key explore and who knows, you know, I say that the two kinds of guys at the big, you know, Folsom Berlin or Folsom and SF, the guy was tying himself up when he was 12. The guy who fell up with that guy when he was 22, he didn't fall in love with that guy at 22. And then like immediately just all the kinks jumped from one dude to the other, like fell in love and like began to explore. And there was a sort of positive feedback loop around the play and the gratitude when Amy Muse, who's been a frequent guest here on the podcast, she's a sex researcher, has described as communal sexual motivation and how that can benefit a relationship where somebody basically does for the other person, indulges them in their kinks that do not turn them off, but don't necessarily turn them on yet, and then finds that giving their partner this pleasure is a pleasure for them as well. And they grow into them. That's how you find. That's how you find the dom woman of your dreams. If you can't just get on field or the other kinky apps and hang a shingle, if that doesn't work for you, then you're going to be on this treadmill for a while where you date women that you meet through the normie apps or in normie ways and you demonstrate to them that you're good and giving in game yourself and that you're good at sex and that you are emotionally viable as a potential male partner. You don't let them make too enormous an investment in you. You don't let it go on for two years and have a kid before you lay your kink cards on the table. But you let them get to know you and then you tell them about your sexual interests, about your ideal emotional sexual dynamic in a relationship, about your fantasies about being with a dominant woman at the same time that you ask them about their sexual interests and their fantasies and demonstrate a willingness to meet their needs too be cognizant of their kinks too to be GGG in both directions. But you're gonna get rejected along the way. You're gonna meet women that you tell this to who are like, what? No, fuck this, I'm out. But then you're going to meet a woman where she likes you. And if some other dude had said to her, I'm interested in a dominant partner, she might have cut and run, but she likes you enough that maybe she will explore with you. And then there she is, there's your dominant partner and you both found and built her.
- [39:28]
E
Hi Dan.
- [39:29]
F
This is a 40 year old woman. I have a superpower, but I want to understand how it is compared to other ladies. So I'm wondering, for those who are multi orgasmic, what does that mean? Like how many orgasms are we talking about every day or every session? I was always multi orgasmic. I even in my teens I used to come, I don't know, 10, 20 times in a session and that's amazing. And now my husband and I are exploring, opening up our relationship and that just opened up a whole new can of worms that now with this new relationship that I'm having, I can even come in one session like 60, 70 times and that's not even in a day. So yeah, I just am wondering with other ladies, what does that mean multi orgasmic? Like how many orgasms are we talking about?
- [40:37]
A
I'm just going to toss your question out there for the other ladies who can experience multiple orgasms. I am curious how you keep track. When you say you've had 60, 70 orgasms, you have a clicker in your hand. How are you putting a number to this? I would lose count. When I have to put six eggs in the batter of a cake I'm making, I lose count of the six eggs. I'm constantly having to recount the eggs. That's just six in the one cake batter. I like to make the cake I like to make and I can't quite manage that. But you're racking up these 60, 70 orgasms and keep in count at an accurate count. How do you do it? And other ladies out there listening who can have multiple orgasms. How many can you have? Is there a point at which so many is too many or are you able to go and go and go? How does it work for you? Give us a call, let us know. Let us know how it works for you and we will play your calls on a future show. All right, time for listener feedback. First up, a few comments. Listeners left in the comment thread about last week's show at Savage Love, says Steve mick to the 34 year old woman leaving her husband. Well done. You are already breaking with dysfunctional traditions by prioritizing your safety, happiness and well being. You have been with him since you were 24, so you never got the chance to find out who you are apart from being coupled. A loving relationship is wonderful, but also shed the notion that becoming first person plural is the only way to have a fulfilling life. Says Amanda Rama to the guy who can't keep an erection with a condom. Try different condoms. My partner had this issue and it wasn't about the loss of sensation but a pinchy feeling from the ring at the bottom. He got custom sized condoms online and it totally solved the problem for him. And finally says SF Jeff to the caller who wants to meet sex positive women but not come off like a creep in your profile. Why not have one of your likes as Dan Savage? This is going to tell your potential date so much about and if they don't know who Dan is already, maybe they will look him up and Dan will get more subscribers. Love that suggestion. SF Jeff, thank you very much. Lots of great comments in the thread. Lots more great advice. Lots of great pep talks for that caller who is exiting a bad marriage at age 34. And the trans caller who hates everyone who isn't trans jumped into the comment thread. Worth a read. And Ruby shared her own story of an early age gap relationship with the Daddy Dom caller who was worried about the age gap relationships and in his past. All right, if you've got something to say about something I said on last week's show, go to Savage Love and say it in the comment thread. And now Savage Love listeners who left voicemails on our answering machine about last week's show get to have the last word on this week's show.
- [43:27]
G
Hey Dan, this is a response call to episode 1009 to the call that you and Hayden Johnson took about the guy who had the very generous daddy and was looking for a name for that kink. Dan, you were so close. You had it right in the tip of your tongue. You just didn't seal the deal. You said it's not fin doming but maybe fin indulging. Boom. Fin dulging. Hi, this is a bi guy with a response call for the straight guy who was having erectile issues, particularly related to condoms. Dude, I am totally 100% with you. I also have ED problems that are exacerbated by condoms. I have a Viagra prescription as well. One thing that Dan didn't mention to help you out is a vasectomy. I actually have my vasectomy appointment coming up. It is scheduled for next week and that combined with regular STI testing is my solution to the problem moving forward. So I don't know where you're at in your family planning, but yeah, maybe a vasectomy would be an option for you as well.
- [44:30]
E
Hi Dan, I'm listening to episode 1009 and your advice for the caller in her early 30s going through a divorce. Divorce was spot on. As someone who went through that herself, I just want to add that the caller should designate two trusted people in her life for the following task. The first one is a girlfriend or someone that you really love who you have a lot of mutual friends with. Have them tell everyone else that you know in your social circle that you're getting divorced and you're going to do the same thing with a cousin or a sibling, someone your age in your family. They're going to be your designated teller for the rest of the family. That way if someone is going to judge you or have feelings or whatever, you have your designated people to push back and to talk about what an asshole this guy is and how you deserve better. And the bonus is that if someone wants to reach out to offer you sympathy or support, it's not because they're obligated it too, because they just got that news in real time and they don't know what else to say to you. It's because they're thinking of you and they love you. And then you get that support and that love without having to re traumatize yourself and tell everyone how shitty your life has been. Someone did this for me and it was the best divorce advice that I could possibly pass on. You're going to do great post divorce. I'm 40 years old. My life could not be better or more peaceful without that douche in my life anymore.
- [46:08]
A
And we are going to leave it there. Got a sex problem? Got a relationship question? Go to Savage Love Askdan to record your question directly onto our website. Or you can make a voice memo on your very own phone and email it to us at Qavage Love. Or you can call us at our landline at 206-302-2064 and leave us a message on our old school answering machine. And if you tried something new and you want to share the dirty details with me and my listeners, send an email to Qavage Love and volunteer to come on after Action Report the Hump spring tour our 21st smutty season has it all. From glory holes to horny trolls to sexy Poles. It's our first ever Hump film made in Poland starring Poles. This weekend Hump visits Kansas City, Los Angeles, Bend, Oregon, Sacramento and Madison, Wisconsin and we are in an all new venue in the Central District in Seattle. You can watch the trailer and order tickets for a screening at a theater near you right now@humpfilmfest.com follow me @blueskyansavage follow me on Instagram @dansavage. Follow Dr. Matilda Brindle on Instagram Dr. Matilda Brindley and you can learn more about her fascinating work and read her new paper@matildabrindle.com the Savage Lovecast is produced every week by Nancy Hartunian and me and Nancy and the tech savvy at risk youth. We will all be back at you next week. Another installment of the Savage Lovecast. Thank you for downloading.