Spiritual Oppression, Battling Anxiety and Obedience w Clarissa Rojas

Summary

Saved Not Soft Podcast: Episode Summary

Title: Spiritual Oppression, Battling Anxiety and Obedience w/ Clarissa Rojas
Host: Emmy Moore
Guest: Clarissa Rojas
Release Date: March 5, 2025

---

1. Introduction and Guest Introduction (00:00 - 02:27)

Emmy Moore opens the episode with enthusiasm, highlighting the rarity and significance of having guests on the "Saved Not Soft" podcast. She introduces Clarissa Rojas, her best friend of nearly four years, emphasizing their deep spiritual and personal connection.

Emmy Moore:
"We've just known each other from social media. It's my real life in person, all around the world, everything. My best friend."
(00:50)

Clarissa Rojas:
"It's God's timing. That's what it is."
(01:35)

---

2. Deepening Friendship and Spiritual Growth (02:27 - 07:24)

Emmy and Clarissa delve into the foundation of their friendship, rooted in mutual faith and spiritual growth. They discuss how their relationship has been a testament to God's work in their lives, fostering maturity and accountability in their Christian walk.

Clarissa Rojas:
"When you came into my life, my faith strengthened so quickly... I found so much freedom in just having you as a friend who I can trust."
(05:22)

Emmy Moore:
"You talk about this all the more, like, behind the scenes... love actually does go the distance if you're just committed to it."
(06:38)

---

3. Clarissa’s Testimony: Battling Anxiety (07:24 - 12:32)

Clarissa shares her personal journey with anxiety, revealing a long history of panic attacks starting in first grade. She recounts how self-righteousness and reliance on others' faith led to spiritual dryness, culminating in a pivotal moment in 2020 when she realized the need to lean directly on God.

Clarissa Rojas:
"I battled with anxiety, fear... it's all rooted to one thing. And it's dying. It's death."
(16:19)

---

4. The Turning Point: Humbling and Seeking God (12:32 - 19:01)

Clarissa describes her transformative experience during college, where she confronted her self-righteousness and sought a deeper, more personal relationship with God. This humbling process involved recognizing her own sinfulness and the necessity of God's grace for true deliverance.

Clarissa Rojas:
"God humbling me was that moment, like him showing me his glory, his goodness, and being like, you are nothing like this without me."
(12:32)

Clarissa Rojas:
"I have to recognize what a wretched man I am and then have that work of the Holy Spirit done in me."
(19:07)

---

5. Prayer, Fasting, and Deliverance (19:01 - 33:32)

The conversation shifts to the practices of prayer and fasting as essential tools for spiritual growth and overcoming anxiety. Clarissa emphasizes how fasting has deepened her dependence on God, leading to significant breakthroughs in her faith and personal struggles.

Clarissa Rojas:
"Fasting truly taught me that it isn't as important as I am. I'm the daily bread that you eat."
(25:40)

Emmy Moore:
"The Lord enjoys our process that we have to go through because we need Him through the process."
(22:54)

---

6. Spiritual Oppression vs. Possession (33:32 - 38:04)

Emmy poses a critical question about experiencing spiritual oppression despite a strong relationship with God. Clarissa clarifies the distinction between oppression and possession, explaining that oppression involves demonic pressure without overt control, while possession is more severe and falls outside the typical Christian experience.

Emmy Moore:
"If you're a Christian and you're in perfect harmony with God, then how is it that Christians still go through demonic oppression?"
(34:04)

Clarissa Rojas:
"Oppression is experiencing demonic pressure. It's not overtaking you like possession."
(38:04)

---

7. Understanding Grace and Accountability (38:04 - 46:37)

The discussion deepens into the nature of grace, emphasizing that true grace transforms individuals rather than enabling perpetual sin. Clarissa critiques the superficial understanding of grace prevalent in society, advocating for a faith that leads to obedience and continual personal growth through accountability.

Clarissa Rojas:
"Grace is supposed to change you. You need to humble yourself to receive grace and have grace transform you."
(42:27)

Emmy Moore:
"Grace is the beginning of the process, and your job is to respond in faith."
(44:43)

---

8. The Role of Compassionate Correction (46:37 - 60:55)

Clarissa and Emmy explore the importance of delivering constructive and compassionate correction within the Christian community. They highlight how true accountability stems from love and understanding, contrasting it with harsh condemnation which only breeds rebellion and resentment.

Clarissa Rojas:
"Condemnation is never going to make anyone change. It's the loving kindness of God that leads someone to repentance."
(55:17)

Emmy Moore:
"Accountability should be paired with compassion, not condemnation."
(55:47)

---

9. Embracing Humility and True Obedience (60:55 - 66:17)

The conversation concludes with reflections on humility and obedience as foundational aspects of a thriving Christian life. Clarissa shares insights on prioritizing others and serving selflessly, embodying Christ-like humility to foster genuine relationships and spiritual growth.

Clarissa Rojas:
"It's about serving others and helping others, understanding that it's through Christ we are validated."
(64:23)

Emmy Moore:
"God wants us to rest in the midst of our struggles, relying on His grace and timing."
(65:55)

---

10. Closing Thoughts and Encouragement (66:17 - End)

Emmy and Clarissa wrap up the episode with personal anecdotes and affirmations of their faith journey. They encourage listeners to seek accountability, embrace humility, and rely on God's grace to navigate spiritual battles and personal challenges.

Emmy Moore:
"That was such a good combo. I can't wait to watch it back."
(69:16)

Clarissa Rojas:
"Accountability is huge in our walk with Christ. It's the loving kindness that leads to repentance."
(59:43)

---

Key Takeaways:

• Spiritual Oppression: Even committed Christians can experience demonic pressure, which requires reliance on God and spiritual disciplines to overcome.
• Battling Anxiety: Personal struggles with anxiety can be addressed through deepening one's relationship with God, prayer, and fasting.
• Humility and Accountability: True Christian growth involves humility, confession, and accountability within a supportive community.
• True Grace: Grace should transform and convict believers, leading to obedience and personal growth, rather than serving as a license for perpetual sin.
• Compassionate Correction: Effective accountability is rooted in love and compassion, fostering genuine repentance and spiritual maturity.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Emmy Moore (07:24):
  "Love actually does go the distance if you're just committed to it."

• Clarissa Rojas (16:19):
  "All fear, all intrusive thoughts, all anxiety is all rooted to one thing. And it's dying. It's death."

• Clarissa Rojas (25:40):
  "Fasting truly taught me that it isn't as important as I am. I'm the daily bread that you eat."

• Clarissa Rojas (55:17):
  "Condemnation is never going to make anyone change. It's the loving kindness of God that leads someone to repentance."

• Emmy Moore (46:37):
  "Faith without works is dead."

---

This episode of "Saved Not Soft" offers a profound exploration of spiritual oppression, anxiety, and the essential role of humility and accountability in the Christian life. Through Clarissa Rojas' heartfelt testimony and insightful dialogue with Emmy Moore, listeners gain valuable perspectives on overcoming personal struggles and deepening their faith journey.

Transcript

[Emmy Moore]

Hello. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Saved Not Sauce. What's going on, everybody? Y'all? Today I'm so very, very, very, very excited, and I have. Because, you guys know, it's rare occasions when we have guests, but when we do have guests, it's super important, super valuable to me into this ministry that God has graced and blessed me with. And. And before I get into who, my guess is first, if you don't know me, my name is Emmy Moore. I'm the host of this podcast, and this is Save Not Soft. And what is Save Not Soft? Save Not Soft is a podcast navigating your Christian lifestyle of what it means to be heard, love, and seen by God. That's the mission statement. Literally, this journey is not easy. It's a little hard. So this podcast is pretty much here to help you navigate those seasons and what it's like to walk in the Christian lifestyle in this day and age and in this culture. Okay, now, we had to get that out of the way so I could get to my guest, because I'm like that. That's like, kind of like the roll call. We do that every episode. But, y'all, this isn't just like, a regular schmegular friend or, like, oh, I go to church with this lady, or they. They. We just know each other from social media. It's like, this is my real life in person, all around the world, everything. My best friend. So give a round of applause for my bestie, Clarissa Rojas.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Hello. Hello. Thank you for having me.

[Emmy Moore]

It's the first time on the pod.

[Clarissa Rojas]

I know.

[Emmy Moore]

Which is weird, because I feel like we should have done this.

[Clarissa Rojas]

It's God's timing. It's God's timing. That's what it is.

[Emmy Moore]

We've already been friends for so long. Like, I feel like this almost happened really naturally.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

To where I feel like if this would have happened, I don't know, even, like, two years ago would have been like, okay, yeah, you know, like.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah, no, it's definitely God's divine timing.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah. It definitely flew really well, and we're.

[Clarissa Rojas]

More mature in the faith.

[Emmy Moore]

Oh, for sure. Yeah. Well, we've been friends the past. It's literally. I feel like it's about. It feels like it's coming up four years, but I think it's three. About to be four. Yeah, it's about to be four, which is really insane. But it feels like I've almost done my whole life with you, even though, like, I have it. But I think it's because we've Just seen each other so much and have prioritized our friendship so much. And God has been so magnified through our relationship. It's been great.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Well, kind of almost the start of your whole life. When you gave your life to Christ, that's when I met you.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

It was right after. So like your life was just starting.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah. Yeah. Technically. Right? It was. It was really insane. And I think it was so funny because whenever we met, we. We prayed each other into our lives.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Oh, yeah. A lot of prayer.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah. And a lot of crying out.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yes.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

No, literally.

[Emmy Moore]

And just like God bless me with someone who's like minded. And even we get. People tell us who. Who say we look alike too. And I'm always like, you think I look Latina?

[Clarissa Rojas]

No. Really quick. In Mexico, we had this guy come up to us and he's like, are you guys twins? We're like twins.

[Emmy Moore]

We get. I was. I was flattered.

[Clarissa Rojas]

We get sisters, but twins.

[Emmy Moore]

Twins was od. I was like, buddy, you see the height difference, right? I was like, I'm pushing six foot. I'm like, larissa, she's just like six centimeters. Like, she's just six centimeters. No. That was so insane. But anytime anybody. I don't know, I just feel like maybe this is a terrible analogy. I'm just going to say, you know, this might be terrible. I'm just going to say it now. How like you get a dog and then the dog start to look like you. Every person. Every person I know, the dog that they have looks like the owner.

[Clarissa Rojas]

I've heard that. But I think something more people might resonate with is like a boyfriend and a girlfriend becoming like looking alike. They start looking like, yes.

[Emmy Moore]

And it's like you just. You just mesh well.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

So I think it's because not only. I think, I don't know, maybe some like. I think maybe because we have dark features, that's where people could like make that alignment. But I also think spiritually, emotionally, like, physically, like our personalities, there's also a lot of crossovers in that too with like our mannerisms and etc.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Especially.

[Emmy Moore]

We've meshed so much.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Especially with personality.

[Emmy Moore]

Definitely personality and things that like we say as well, just kind of having that same language and stuff. So I don't think it's just even like a physical appearance. It's also just like a. It's a. Honestly, it was funny because we were talking about this. Yes. Was it yesterday about like a yoke? It's like being equally yolked. It's like Carrying same strength, straight like, same tendencies and. Etc. But yeah, I think that's really good.

[Clarissa Rojas]

No. Yeah. When you came into my life, dude, my faith, like, strengthened so quickly. Like, I was so weak in my faith, and I had just rededicated my life to the Lord. I had been walking with the Lord, you know, since childhood. Like, my dad was a pastor. My uncle became my pastor, and it wasn't until like 2020 Covid hit Lord was like, smack. I'm a humble you because you haven't humbled yourself. And. And then, you know, you met me when it almost felt like I was a baby in the faith too. In some ways.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

But I think you being new to the faith too, was like, okay, like iron sharpening iron here now, like, we're. We're both right there going at the same race, same pace. And like, man, I can go on and on about how you helped me in my faith. So much accountability and Accountability, Confession. Nah. Like, I found so much freedom in just having you as a friend who I can trust and be like, I'm talking about going to the deep end where people will never know that about me except you.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

And it's just like being able to confess things to you and keep me accountable. You're like, hey, like, you're not doing what you're supposed to be doing or you're not. Like, this isn't right. You shouldn't be acting like that. Doing, like, it keeps me accountable, keeps me aligned with the word of God, and it really just sharpens me so. Yeah, like, God knew what he was doing and he was like, I mean.

[Emmy Moore]

That freedom that you're talking about, one of those times broke out in this very room we're in right now. That was insane. That was in the same night.

[Clarissa Rojas]

No. Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

But, yeah, I. I think, like, everything you just said, I could say in confidence even more you've done for me. I think that was. I think that's one of the things I admire most about our friendship, is there's areas where you just, like, get me and I don't have to over explain myself. It's just like, you get it. Yeah. And I think that relatability and that comfortability has given me this pathway to go down, that confession and that accountability and gives me that confidence of I could bring this to you because I trust you. And I also think just our relational equity has played a really huge part in our friendship. You talk about this all the. All the more, like, behind the scenes. But I think the way we've committed to each other in the friendship. Like, I felt like you've always shown up for me in areas where I just needed people to show up. And, like, you physically didn't have people showing up for you. And, like, I was driving all the way out there to la, which is about three, four hours away from me, like, to show up for you. And it's like. It's like love actually does go the distance if you're just committed to it.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Literally, I. I can talk about that all the time. I think whenever I talk about our friendship, I think of love in action.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Like, literally, I hadn't ever had friendship on display like that. I'm like, the first time we hung out, you were like, oh, yeah, I'll drive three hours to see you.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

I was like. I was kind of one. I was like, nah, something's up. Like, I don't know that.

[Emmy Moore]

What's she gonna do to me? Right?

[Clarissa Rojas]

Like this.

[Emmy Moore]

Why she want to come here so bad?

[Clarissa Rojas]

Seem right. But the Lord was really showing me. He's like, this is what commitment looks like immediately. And he's like, that's how I am with you. The minute you gave your life to me. It's like you demonstrate the love of God so well in that area. Like, just being committed, a committed friend. And even at a distance, you're still three hours away. Like, we've been friends for three years, and it's like, you're still three hours away. Distance hasn't changed, but it's like, even with the distance, you feel like, closer than ever still.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Like, so.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah. I think a lot of that, too, is, like, spiritual intimacy. Because the reason as to why I did drive the three hours in the first place wasn't because cam gonna meet up with some random girl. It was also just a. A leading of the Holy Spirit and just something I knew I had to do because I knew God had something in store for me. And then the moment we met, all of it made sense. And it was just like, oh, God. Like, this isn't just like a seasonal friend. This is a friend you want beside me for the rest of my life.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

And so I think that's really refreshing. And like, how you said earlier we were on the same path, and I feel like we've always kind of been on the same path. And I feel like even if, you know, there's areas where we could be different, that's gonna be every friendship.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

We've always grown at the same pace. Like, when I'm growing, you're growing. When you down or something. Usually I am too. It's like we. We've been on the same level of things, and that's been really refreshing because that allows us to sharpen one another and to bring up one another when the other person does fall and we know each other's weaknesses. And that's just like, really beautiful. A part of your testimony. Because I wanted to ask you this question. Okay. Because. Because I was like, okay, I just want to ask her one question. We'll just flow from there. But the one question. Because I feel like I could have asked you a million things, but you kind of talked about in your testimony. You rededicate your life to the Lord. You grew up, your dad was a pastor, then it became your uncle. Like, you knew the image of Christ. What was the turning point in your life where Jesus became Lord to you and not just like a historical figure you heard on a Sunday?

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah. Honestly, the turning point, because I rededicated my life in 2020. I had grown up in the church. I think I was born in the church. Like, my mom gave birth to me and she started taking me to church like that. So I just grew up hearing about other people's faith all the time or hearing about having faith in God. So a lot of it was just. I was being taught all this stuff. But I really believe growing up, it was. It was more religious than. And it's. I feel like it's tacky to say religious than. It was relational between me and God.

[Emmy Moore]

Right.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Not to discredit everything I learned, because everything I learned I still carry with me to the day because it literally helped define.

[Emmy Moore]

Right.

[Clarissa Rojas]

And it still helps build and equip my relationship with God for sure. But I want to say the turning point was not leaning on my pastor's faith and my family's faith.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

And start realizing, like, oh, wait, I have to do this alone.

[Emmy Moore]

Right.

[Clarissa Rojas]

This is between me and God. I can't lean on, like, my. What happens when my dad can't pick me up? My dad travels for work. He's on the road a lot. So I'm like, when he's not here, then who can I go to for advice? It's like. So I was running to. I would call my uncle. I'm like, uncle, I'm going through all this, blah, blah. So it's like I was leaning on so much of, like, their faith that the Lord had to, like, crush me, completely wreck me about my sin, like, my own sin. Because a lot of, like, what I was dealing with was self righteousness. I thought I was good. I thought I was better than everything. I thought because I can quote scripture off the dome, that I was cool, I was solid. But my lifestyle was reflecting so differently. And so it wasn't until 2020, when I had a lot of time to think and reflect, the Lord was like, you are an awful person in the most gentle and loving way.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

But I. I felt like Isaiah in that moment, coming face to face with God in a moment of prayer and being like, I hate myself, but not, I hate myself.

[Emmy Moore]

No.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yes, I'm hateful. But I see who I. Who I am for who I am, but who I could be because of the blood of Jesus. And so that's the turning point. I had just being in my prayer closet with God and him showing me exactly who I am without him.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

And so that is, like, where the turning point of that relationship happened. And thank God he saved me because I was literally like, I know it all. You can't tell me anything about Christ that I don't already know.

[Emmy Moore]

And, yeah, blah, blah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

So it's like. And I always tell you this, I tell everybody this, but I'm like, if you don't humble yourself, God's gonna humble you.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

And that's what happened to me in that moment.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah. What did that humbling look like? What? Like, practically in that moment, what was. Whether it was like an instance or just like a word, like, what was that experience of you being humbled by God or even you having to humble yourself at times?

[Clarissa Rojas]

Well, God humbling me was that moment, like him showing me his glory, his goodness, and being like, you are nothing like this without me, without my blood. That was him.

[Emmy Moore]

Sorry.

[Clarissa Rojas]

No, you're good.

[Emmy Moore]

I just have a question. Yeah, like, follow up question. Like, where were you in your life when that happened, though?

[Clarissa Rojas]

Oh, like, what was I doing?

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah, like, what were you doing to where he had to encounter you like that.

[Clarissa Rojas]

So I was in college. I was in my third semester of college, and I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna do with my life. And I feel like everybody ask anyone who's fresh out of high school, right? Trying to figure out what they want to do, even if they say they know what they want to do. Yeah. Like, it's like, then I have, I have my friend, she just graduated, she's like, I don't know what I want to do with my degree. You hear so many people say that. It's just like, you know, going through the motions. And I didn't want to do that.

[Emmy Moore]

Right.

[Clarissa Rojas]

I didn't want to just be like, okay, I'm a pursue this degree and then figure out what to do with it later. I'm like, no, I want to know what you want from me now. Yeah. And I think that was kind of like where I was at in my walk. I'm like, I'm confused. I don't know where I'm going. And then it made me question, I'm like, wait, have I always been lost? Yeah, I'm like, have I always been confused? Because growing up in school, I hated school because like, it felt like everybody around me knew what they wanted to do and I didn't know what I was supposed to be doing. All I knew is, I love Jesus. That was it. All I knew is, I love the word. Like, I may have had a hard time having that relationship with him, but I knew I love this.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Like, you know, and my uncle, who grew up being like my mentor and somebody who taught me the word, like, I. That's all I, like understood. I didn't understand math, I couldn't understand history. Sometimes, like I couldn't understand. The only thing I was probably good at was English. And I'm like, I genuinely think that's God though.

[Emmy Moore]

Well, cuz it's writing.

[Clarissa Rojas]

No. Yeah, I genuinely think that was God. But in other areas I felt like such a failure. And so going to college and like everybody around me is like, yeah, I'm gonna pursue this, I'm gonna pursue that. I'm like, God, I don't know what you want me to pursue. So it felt so dry. Felt like I was deserting in a dry land, the wilderness. Like, I don't know where I'm going. I'm like looking for the water he's promising, like to flow through. And I'm like, I don't know where I'm going. And that's kind of where I was at when the Lord humbled me because he's like, you're lost because you're not following me. You're following what the world wants you to do and what the world's telling you to do. Because I was going to counselors and at the time I was battling anxiety, so I was going to doctors all the time, trying to see if they can help me with my health and all that stuff. So when I was going to my counselors, how can I do school? Which way should I go? Seeking. Seeking them?

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

And not seeking God.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

At all. So that was God humbling me as well in that area. And then a Lot of self humbling. And we see throughout scripture ways to humble yourselves is through fasting and prayer and. But also just ridding yourself of pride. Because I thought I had everything I needed to succeed. I had my counselors, I had my teachers, I had the finances to go to school. So I was like, I don't need, like, what? Like, why would I go to God? Like, I already know what I'm doing. Like, you know what I'm saying? There wasn't, I wasn't aware of a need that I had. So he had to humble me to the point where he's like, you need this.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

You need direction, you need wisdom, you need discernment. And so my uncle at the time, because I had struggled with a fear of choking and eating.

[Emmy Moore]

Can you talk a little bit more about that?

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah. So, well, anxiety. My first panic attack was in first grade in my bathtub. I fainted because I scared myself so badly to the point where I passed out.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Mom didn't know what was going on. She's like, what? Like, you know, we go to the hospital and ever since first grade, all the way up until like my first semester of college, I was passing out, like, I want to say, like 14 times a year in the. In and out of the hospital because I'm like passing out so much from fear. From fear. Like literally just from thoughts that weren't real.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Like thoughts that I'm going to die. Like, all fear, all intrusive thoughts, all anxiety is. It's, it's all roots to one thing. And it's dying. It's death.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

And so. But I didn't know that I was in first grade. I'm like, I don't know better. I don't know what's going on with me.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

If anything, my parents should have known.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

But like, I'm not holding that against them because then I wouldn't have the testimony of endurance and hope that I have now if I didn't go through that.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

But like, I battled with that, like, anxiety, fear. And it got rooted deeply so bad in this one instance where I was eating a bagel and I thought I was choking. I did not choke, but I thought I was right. And so it traumatized me so badly in my mind. Like my mind fully deceived itself into thinking that I couldn't eat hard foods anymore. So for three months straight, I was just eating mashed beans, mashed potatoes, rice. But the rice had to be a little bit mushy. And then protein shakes because I was like, Scared to eat.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

And because you were scared to die. Yes. Yes. That's another instance where the Lord was humbling me. He's like, you believe your life is yours. You're afraid to die. Why? I conquered that.

[Emmy Moore]

Right.

[Clarissa Rojas]

So.

[Emmy Moore]

And it's funny that it's like the whole gospel is literally a testament of how we're supposed to die.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yes. Literally. So I was humbled by that.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Because I was like, oh. Like, I am prideful because I'm leaning on my own understanding. I'm trying to control my own life when I thought I had given it to Christ.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

And so I'm in that season, you know, 11th grade to, you know, my freshman year of college, and the Lord was like, you didn't really give your life to me. And I was, like, broken.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

I was crushed because I was like, what do you mean?

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

I thought, I've been walking with you.

[Emmy Moore]

This. Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

And it's like the Lord's like, it's not that you haven't been walking with me. It's that I've been with you. You just haven't really been with me. You know, it's like, I've been here at the table, but you keep getting up. Like, you know, and so that's where I kind of was. And because of that fear, mind you, my uncle, who was helping me a lot with Scripture in trying to help me with my anxiety. And it's funny, because people could tell you the truth all you want, you're.

[Emmy Moore]

Not gonna listen to it.

[Clarissa Rojas]

You're not gonna listen until God really is like, you got it now.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Because he would be like, don't be afraid. Like, don't be anxious for nothing. He's like, you know how many times he quoted that verse to me? Don't be anxious for nothing. But in everything, like, prayer petition. Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

He's like, that's the key. You'll be free. And I'm like, kept reading. I'm like, I'm.

[Emmy Moore]

I don't see it.

[Clarissa Rojas]

I don't see it.

[Emmy Moore]

How do I get out of anxiety? Like, it's like, one of those things. And you see even, like, the world talking about it and people who struggle with, like, anxiety or depression, whatever it may be, and it's like they express that they're experiencing fear or that they're experiencing certain emotions, and they get triggered almost when people are like, oh, well, don't be afraid. And it's like, well, easier said than done. I want to be afraid. But there is, like, almost an accountability that has to be taken. Because it's like there actually is a part of you that's comfortable of being afraid. Even if I were to make a bed in my fear and insecurities, you will come and find me. Because if God is going to find you in hell, he could definitely find me when I'm not in my right mind or when I'm stuck in fear or when I'm ashamed or insecure. Like God could do that. So it's just a matter of being okay with dying with. To yourself, because essentially that's what Christ wants and that's what he died for. So.

[Clarissa Rojas]

No. Yeah, the dying, the dying to self and the dying to pride is truly what rescued me because I. I didn't think I was prideful. I mean, I didn't even fully know what pride was. And so I was learning about humility. And humility in the Hebrew means ana, and it means to be wretched and needy.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

And I was like, wretched's a crazy word. No. Yeah. And that's why Paul says, well, what a wretched man I am. Who will save me from this body of death. Thanks be to God in Jesus Christ, because only he can truly rescue you out of whatever it is that you're going through. But you first have to recognize what a wretched man you are. Like. And I don't think for the longest time, while I was battling my anxiety, I didn't think I was needy or tried to convince myself that I was okay. Because I'd be lying if I didn't say that there were moments where I'd be begging God, literally. I'm like, do you not hear me? I am in need. God, please save me from this. Like, we're talking from first grade all the way up until my freshman year of college, there were moments where I was literally like, God, why won't you rescue me?

[Emmy Moore]

And why aren't you showing up?

[Clarissa Rojas]

Like, why aren't you, like, coming in? And in my case, and in a lot of people's cases who I've spoken to about this, the reason is, is because we want a quick fix. We don't really want the work of Jesus Christ.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

You know, the. The building up, the molding of the clay. We don't really want him to snatch us up in the miri clay and then build us up and then put us through the fire. Like, we just want it to be completely done with and dandy. Like, that's not how God works, though. And so all my prayers without me knowing, but I know now, is that I just wanted that quick fix. I just want you to deliver me and that it be done. Like, I don't want to go through the fire after this.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah, but it would no longer make you needy of him.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Exactly.

[Emmy Moore]

And it's like one of those things where it's like, God enjoys the process that you might hate because he's in it.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

So it's like God enjoys our process that we have to go through because we need him through the process. So it's like, as soon as we are not in a place of neediness, like, we don't need God. Then. Like, even when we was at the flea market and we were studying 2nd Corinthians 12, where Paul is talking about the thorn of the flesh. Like, he. He said, a messenger of Satan has afflicted me with this thorn so God could humble me. And it's almost as if God has allowed you and I both to experience that anxiety for so long, or all these areas and avenues of our lives to where it was very traumatic. And God, why don't you snatch me up from this God? Why don't you fix it right away? Because it makes us dependent of Him. It keeps us in a hu. Humble position. And it's like, there's been a lot of places where I've been dead wrong and I've been caught up in a lot of sin, or I was tempted and accused and oppressed by a lot of things, whether it was my fault or not. But God allowed it to happen because. Because he allowed to use that thing for me to need Him.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

And that I will never take back any of those moments in my entire life because I'm like, I got to see the goodness of God.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

Like, I don't know. During the time you're like, dang, I don't want to go through this depression, or I don't want to go through this anxiety, or I don't want to go through the nightmares or seeing scary stuff in my bedroom. I don't know. This is personal stuff that I would deal with, but I'm just being transparent. But I was like, dang, like, why is this stuff happening? And God's like, because you have to see my glory through it. And it's like, I would do those things over again if I knew I was going to seek such a big revelation from God, which is what Paul wrote about. He said the reason, asked why this message, this messenger of Satan is oppressing me so much is because God has given me such great revelation and got to keep me humble. It's not God permitting evil because he doesn't want that, but it's almost as if God is allowing him. It's like God is sharing to an extent because he's so generous. He's like, I'm going to share myself with you, but not too much. So where to? Where, like, self righteousness is birth and you make it all about you and you think we can share this platform.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

Like, you're. You're just my kid. Like, you go out and you talk about me and you testify, but it's like, you don't. You don't get to be me.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

So it's almost like God allows the consequences of the earth to like, reside on his children sometimes. Not because he permits evil, but because he wants us to just stay humble.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

And we could keep ourselves humble or we even humble ourselves just by being insane.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah. When it comes to humility and how I humbled my. Humbled myself or practiced humbling myself was because, circling back to the fear of eating, I didn't want to fast because I was already like, I'm not eating. Like, why would I want to give up food? Like, I need to eat. I'm. I look weak. I look like a twig. Like, I need to eat. So it's kind of weird because, I mean, I could have sat there and been like, well, I'm already not eating. Might as well. But then that would have been wrong too, because then it's just like, there's no, like, actual intention of humbling myself before the Lord. It's just like, I'm already not eating. So now I'm not do it. But I had this fear of not eating because I was already not eating. So I was like, I'm gonna die if I don't eat.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

You know, so, like, what do you do? So I'm like, yeah, like, I'm in this predicament because I'm like, the Lord is like, I need you to humble yourself. And I didn't really fully understand the need for fasting, but ultimately, I mean, it's just like you're taking your most basic need because humans need food to like, or they need food to survive for sure. Like water to survive. So you're taking those most basic need, saying, I don't need that. I need your spirit more.

[Emmy Moore]

Yep.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Like, you're prioritizing dependency on the spirit more than the food you depend on. Daily. You wake up, well, I don't know about you. The first thing I do, I eat.

[Emmy Moore]

Like, I work out first. Then I Eat.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Well, okay. Yeah, no, but I'll eat a snack before I, I go to the gym. But like, that's my, my thing. Like, I wake up and I eat, and then after the gym, I'm like, all right, big breakfast time.

[Emmy Moore]

Eat again.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah, eat again. And then it's like, I do what I got to do throughout the day. Run errands for my parents, whatever it is I got to do. When's lunch? Yeah, like, and then I'm like, what's for dinner? Yeah, like, you know, we're so.

[Emmy Moore]

Everything's about food evil. When you in church. What am I gonna eat after this?

[Clarissa Rojas]

Right?

[Emmy Moore]

Yes.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Or what am I gonna eat before this? Yeah, what am I gonna eat? But we, we've become so dependent on it. Like, fasting truly taught me, like, that is, isn't as important as I am. I'm the daily bread that you eat.

[Emmy Moore]

It's like gluttonous. Yes, it's literal gluttony. Like, I think people think gluttony is being obese. Like, gluttony is making food and consumption an idol. Yes. That's what gluttony is.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

So if you're in church and you're thinking about what I'm gonna eat after the service, like, you're gluttonous because you want a Big Back for a Big Mac. And it's like God just wants you to sit down and read Proverbs for a moment and then you could have your number four later.

[Clarissa Rojas]

No, for real though. No, there's no. Seriously, bro, big bag for a big bag is crazy.

[Emmy Moore]

No, but it's no bags. No, it's facts though, bro. Well, actually, when I met you, that's when I fasted for the first time. You remember that?

[Clarissa Rojas]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

So I remember the first time I fasted, it changed my entire life because I was reading my scriptures and like, I knew the Bible. I've always been, you know, super into like God's word and just really receptive off of everything that God was saying and, you know, being obedient, my walk and all this stuff for like the stage that I was at. But one place where I was really weak in the beginning of my faith was fasting. I remember the first fast I did was a three week fast, a three week intermediate fast. So I was eating from 6am to 6pm for three weeks straight. It was like 21 days. And when I tell you the amount of blessings I got out of that fast absolutely changed my life. And I did it through my other best friend. Amoya's church. And well, they just, they just come with a fire. I mean, whenever she'd be staying over, she'd playing their services out loud and it just sound like they going to work in the spirit. But yeah, shout out kingdom, full tabernacle. They're great. But yeah, so I did their fast and it was their marriage and destiny fast. And I did that for three years straight. That's how I know it's been three years, because I, I would have done it this past year would have been three years. But yeah, it completely changed my life. It showed me areas in my life where God was there and I'd even know, like how you said earlier places where you didn't know you needed him. Yeah, it humbled me a lot. It showed me really how weak I was, how I couldn't do everything on my own, how God in Christ is magnified of how Jesus truly is and needs to be the center of it all for my whole entire life. And then he showed me areas in my life where I was down bad, like really down bad. Emotionally, physically, psychologically. He showed me even, even things I hated about those around me that I even picked up for myself, like a lot of hypocrisy. He was like, Emmy, like, you get so mad that people around you are doing this, but you're doing the same exact thing. Like, even when it came to my family, I'd be like, oh, hey, my mom's doing this. I hate that my brother's doing this, or my dad. And he was like, you're doing the same exact things that they're doing. And let me show you why in the spirit, because they're caught up in all this fear. They've been oppressed, they've gone through tragedies and whatever it may be and it's poured on to you. So child, what are you going to do about this? Are you going to come into agreement with the same stuff they've been doing? Are you going to like push forward and, and create something new with me? Because I'm also a first generational Christian, so that was like a different fire. But fasting, every time I fast, I always get massively humbled. And in fasting is always Holy Spirit led to like, I just feel the Lord just been like, you have to fast. And I fast. I try once a month. Like at like at least once a month, I fast. Even if it's just for a day or two or three for a while. I did the first three days of the month and it completely changed my Life because you're needy for God. And even Mark, chapter five, whenever he's talking about the spirit of Legion and the disciples couldn't cast that dating demon out. And they're like, why couldn't we do this? And Jesus said, there's only certain spirits that can be casted out through prayer and fasting. And you know how much stuff is probably in the aroma in the room with us? It's like we got the blood of Christ. Yes. But it's like there's other things we're still needing to die to. And it's like if we're failing to pray and fast, it's like, how do we expect God's going to give us that provision to partner with him?

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

No, because he could do it on his own. But it's like God is like, faith without works is dead. So it's like God will grace us so we can have the faith. So then work through that faith to do the dang thing that he has called us to do.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah. No, and going off of that verse too, that was one of the scriptures that set me free from my anxiety and depression, fear, all that stuff. Because mind you, I was learning about the importance of fasting because I had come across that verse, right? And I was like. Because like I said, I had knew the word. So the word was like, the word's important, don't get me wrong. Like, but it's like I only, like, knew it to just have head knowledge, not to have intimacy with God. So the Lord really highlighted to me through that scripture. And that's how I think the Lord got me with intimacy through prayer and fasting. Because he's like, if I can't get you with this, Clarissa, because you're misusing it for the wrong reasons, then I'm gonna get you right here.

[Emmy Moore]

Right?

[Clarissa Rojas]

So my prayer life changed completely because I was just like, oh, thank you, God for this and thank you, God for that. Like, when I started, like learning the power of prayer and like praying things off of me and like, demons and literally like darkness, evil thoughts, laying those at the feet of Jesus, casting every thought to him and like holding it captive at the feet of Jesus, like, literally, that's when I found deliverance. Like, I can tell the day I went to the hospital, like, I passed out in the hospital, ended up throwing all. Throwing up all over their floor. It literally felt like a demon was coming out of me. Yeah, it literally hold deliverance in the room. Like, my mom literally said she stepped back from the gurney because she thought I Was gonna throw myself off because I was yakking so hard.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah, I remember you said that. She said it even looked like you.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah, she. Yeah, she was like, you look so pale, like your vein was popping out. And I was like, bruh.

[Emmy Moore]

And to me, it probably wasn't me, bro.

[Clarissa Rojas]

No. Yeah, right.

[Emmy Moore]

Probably something else.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Right? Right. Well, I'm like, literally, after that day, I was laying in that hospital room, and I was like, God, I'm like, I do not want to be here again. These same four walls. I'm like, I hate it. I hate it here. And then obviously, that's when God revealed to me through his word, that scripture in Mark about prayer and fasting. Yeah, yeah. And humbling myself before him. But also the scripture. David is praying in Psalms. It's. What is it? It was like, seek the Lord with all your heart. And he would.

[Emmy Moore]

Oh, wait.

[Clarissa Rojas]

It was like, those who seek him, he delivers them from all their fears. And I was like. It was like something clicked in my head. Like a key. It was like the passage, right.

[Emmy Moore]

Is that Psalms 118 or 55? Or it could be 23. I'mma look. You keep talking.

[Clarissa Rojas]

I thought it was. I want to say it's like in the 50s. No, I'll look. But he basically says, I sought the Lord with all my heart and he delivered me from all my fears.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

And I was like, that's it. That's the key.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Seeking God. And. And I connected it with the other scripture of through prayer and fasting. And God's like, you're gonna find me there. So it was through the fasting and the prayers and.

[Emmy Moore]

Oh, it's 30s. It's like 34. It has to be like the 30. 34.

[Clarissa Rojas]

I think it might be 34.

[Emmy Moore]

I think it might be34 too.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah. Taste and see.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah. I sought the Lord and he answered me, and he delivered me from all my fears. Y. I was like, it's one of the. One of the double digit psalms.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah. No, that's good. That. That was before we go off track.

[Emmy Moore]

Just because we talked about it. And I could totally see people listening to this, having this question. How is it that you could be a Christian, you're getting oppressed by demonic spirits. We could both tackle it. Either you could start or I could start.

[Clarissa Rojas]

You start with that.

[Emmy Moore]

I just want to prompt the question because I bet people are probably hearing your testimony. They're like, wait, you're telling me that she gave her life to Jesus and she loves Jesus and he loves her, and they have Us, they have a relationship and yet you're dealing with demonic oppression. How does that look?

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah, well, from what I've learned through scripture, salvation is a daily thing. You're being saved daily, his mercies are new daily because we sin daily. Like if we think we going on perfect like day to day, like you're lying to yourself. Yeah, like. And I think that's how we get into the self righteous attitude. And this prideful attitude is thinking we better in like than anything and like forgetting to thank God that we are sinners or recognizing who we are without Christ and the blood to carry us through. But it was like this continual like acknowledgment of what was inside of me because it's here. Let me make this clear though too. Sometimes it's not always a demon. Like let's talk about what Paul says about your evil inclination within you. Yeah, it's you sometimes that gives birth to sin. We give too much credit to Satan sometimes or his demons. And I'm like, bruh, like, no, it's you sometimes. Like. And in my case I had to come to terms with it was myself, my negative ways of thinking, what I was feeding, my mind, the music I was listening to, things I was watching. Like a lot of my problems and anxieties, I promise you, didn't really stem from Satan or demons I could possibly be a factor. But I truly believe a lot of it was through my own evil inclinations, my selfish desires, my passions and all those things and like things I've opened doors to for sure. So that's what was kind of like that whole relationship between me and God of like, okay, you need to die to this part of yourself today and now because like you gonna go away with the wind if you don't humble yourself.

[Emmy Moore]

And I think it's also like seeing too, of understanding what Satan can actually do.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

So if you give Satan more power, you're giving him the power to rule in those areas where you're fearful or you may be afraid, or you don't want him to have terrain in those areas. And it's like the only thing, and this is factual, the only thing that Satan can do is leverage your flesh. He cannot make you make a decision. He cannot decide anything for you. He does not call out your destiny. The only thing Satan can do is a leverage what you're already experiencing in the natural. And so I think sometimes we give the enemy in the dark side open realms, territories and areas and aspects of our lives for him to creep and crawl in and Infiltrate them because the door is being swung open by fear.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

And like a hyper vigilance and like a, almost, almost like I'm too scared to where I don't even know what to do. To where it's just like, okay, come on in then. Yeah. And it's like that's actually like operating in fearlessness and in faith is going to be the thing that like shuts the door. It doesn't necessarily mean that demonic oppression isn't going to exist. So. Yeah, okay, wait, back to the original question because I want to squash it real quick. So people have the question, if you're a Christian and you're in perfect harmony with God, then how is it that Christians still go through demonic oppression? So there's a difference between possession and oppression. Every person who's possessed in the Bible were people who were not believers of God, but God had, but Jesus had used the deliverance from their possession to bring them to him. Right? Yeah, but oppression is experiencing demonic pressure. Not necessarily to where it's dictating the inside of you and your thinking and all these things. Cuz like how I said the only thing that Satan can do is leverage your flesh, but it's oppressing you. It's oppressive, it is damaging, but it's not, it's not overtaking you in other areas like how possession would. And so they're like, okay, well if you're perfectly in harmony with God, how could that happen? So we could go to two instances in the Bible. First one, we could go to Matthew chapter four where Jesus is in the garden and he's fasting for 40 days and 40 nights and he's oppressed by Satan himself.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

So how is it that the son of God, who was quite literally imperfection, being oppressed by Satan himself. So if Jesus was oppressed by Satan, how much more could we be oppressed by evil once again? And so it's knowing how to conquer these things, not, you know, invite them, sit at a table and let's like play chess or something like that, but instead like seeing it for what it is. And what Hebrews 4:14 says is that we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weakness, just as he has been just how he has been tempted just like us, but yet did not fall into sin. It's, it's just understanding that the earth is, it has was made and orchestrated to be good. But because sin entered the world, there is a, a ruler here and it's, and it's a prince. It's not a king because the king of all kings is Jesus. Yeah, but Satan is the prince of evil, and he was casted down here to reside. And so even when we look at the garden of Edom, even before all sin broke out, how is it that Adam and Eve were made perfect in God and they're being oppressed by a serpent in a garden? Right. So you're telling me two perfect human beings were oppressed by Satan? And it's because love requires risk and freedom. So in order for us to experience true compassion with God we first had, he first has to limit his power in order for us to make a choice. So evil happens not because God permits it, but because it's allowed. So we can make a choice of what we want to choose. So, honestly, just being flat out honest, I don't know how many people have dealt with, like, demonic oppression. It could even be like, addiction. Sleeping with somebody you're not supposed to sleep with, doing witchcraft, whatever it may be. Those things, those temptations could feel really easy for you to fall into. But God is asking you, how much do you love me and want to choose me? Like, will you choose me? Even though this feels easy, even though everybody else is doing it, even though the majority of Gen Z is doing all this, like, witchcraft, tarot card reading, they sleeping with whoever they have, hookup culture and all this stuff. Like, those things look easy, but like art. But are you going to choose me? Like, there's another option? Yeah, it's like God just allows that to happen. Not because he wants us to choose evil, but actually because he wants us to choose him. And if God forced us to choose him, then it wouldn't feel fair. Like, God is just. And he's fair. So, like, if God didn't orchestrate freedom and risk because love can't exist outside the parameters of that, then, like, we wouldn't have a free choice to freely choose them. Therefore, it wouldn't actually be a relationship. It would be dictatorship. I did a whole podcast episode on this. If there's people who are listening who are like, bro, what? There's a whole episode talking about, why does God allow suffering? But it's kind of like that question, like, dang, God. Like, why do you like, I bet even Paul had that question with God in 2nd Corinthians 12. Like, why did you allow the messenger of Satan to come and put the storm in my flesh? But he answered it.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

He was like, because it keeps me humble and it keeps me needy. And I understand why you did this, guys. Not because you want this to happen. It's because you want my neediness.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

And it's because if that wasn't allowed to happen, it's almost as if God allowed that to happen because Paul can infiltrate that. That behavior for himself.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

Like, I bet if we were to keep ourselves needy all the time, and if we humbled ourselves all the time, like, we'd be good.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

But, like, God has to humble us because we fail to humble ourselves, you know?

[Clarissa Rojas]

Exactly. No, I even think when it comes to, like, our own selfish inclination and desires that we war within the spirit. Paul, he's like. Is it in Second Corinthians where he's like, I do what I do not.

[Emmy Moore]

Want is Romans 7. It says, I do not want to do. And what I do want to do, I don't do it because of sin that lives within me.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah. So it's like this constant, like, bad that. Does that mean, like, you can't have a relationship with God or get. God can't grant you grace again? Like, literally, God says, God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble. Like, you can't even have grace without humility.

[Emmy Moore]

True.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Like, to even think about that is crazy because everyone's like, oh, free grace, blah, blah, blah. Everyone's living by this grace that enables them instead of changes them. And that's the problem in our society. It's like, you know, oh, he, I can do whatever I want, blah, blah. And we're living by this false doctrine of grace. And it's like. Like, no, it's supposed to change you. Like, you need to humble yourself in order to even receive that grace in the first place. Recognize your need and then have that, you know, work of the Holy Spirit done in you.

[Emmy Moore]

So what do you think is, like, this fake grace and this, like, superficial grace that we're seeing people embed into their lives today?

[Clarissa Rojas]

It's. Honestly, I think it's who we're allowing ourselves to be taught by, and not taught by the word of God or taught by God himself. So in our society, like, realistically, we're on Tick Tock a lot. We're on Instagram a lot. And we're looking for pastors who fill our needs, our passions, and pour into those things instead of literally ripping us to shreds. I don't know about you. I know you like this. Being convicted and being, like, corrected. Like, so do I. I want somebody to tell me if I'm not walking right, because I want to walk right. I want to be made right with God. I want to be righteous with God. Like, yes. You know, so it's like desiring to always be a student and always like understand that you're never gonna like reach this like perfect perfection where, where Jesus was. But I bring all that up just to say because it's like a lot of the teachings we listen to and the sermons we listen to, they're like this grace that. Oh, like if you messed up, grace is here for you and blah, blah. And while that is true, it's like, are you going to keep going back into your habitual sin and your iniquity or are you going to repent because sin is missing the mark?

[Emmy Moore]

Right.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Iniquity is living in a consistent cycle of your sin.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Like that you're not supposed to be like living in. And a lot of freedom from that comes through confession. Like literally it says confess your sins to one another and that's where you'll find the most freedom actually. But confession comes through having accountability. And so it's this whole cycle of things. It's like you humble yourself, you receive grace. Once you receive grace, the grace should change you. If the grace is not changing you, then it's not the grace of God, because the grace of God should change you. If you're not seeing this active like change in yourself, this added, this renewing of your mind, shall I say, then you're not living by grace, you're just living by this, this tolerance.

[Emmy Moore]

I have a question. Do you think people are operating in a false doctrine of grace because they actually don't understand what salvation is a thousand percent? Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

I think people, I think people think that grace, God's grace alone in accepting it is what makes you saved.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

But Ephesians tells us that we are saved by grace through faith. So it's a two step process. It's like God extends the grace onto us and whether if you accept it or not, it's already given.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

Your job is to respond to that in faith.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

So I think it's a false teaching that people could either give or. Yeah. False teaching that people have infiltrated upon themselves. Yeah. To where they think grace is just a one step process. When it's not a response, it's the.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Start of the process.

[Emmy Moore]

For sure. It's a beginning which like we think we think it. Like I love, I think it's 1st John 4 and it says we only love Christ because He first loved us. So the only reason as to why we have our faith and we're able to exercise works and all these Things in reciprocation of our faith is because God first gave us the grace and the compassion that we need to do those things in the first place.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Right.

[Emmy Moore]

So it's like. It's not even like a God don't even need you all that much. He really picked up his end and did what he needs to do. Your job is to just respond correctly. And I think that's where, you know, the saddest thing is seeing people walk around swearing up and down. They think that they're saved.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

Because they're accepting a superficial grace upon their terms, but not from the terms of God, which is found in Scripture.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah. And I want to add language to what you said about, you know, receiving the grace and then after that comes that faith.

[Emmy Moore]

Right.

[Clarissa Rojas]

But then after that faith comes obedience. Because literally in. I think it's in First John 4, it literally says, if you love me, you will obey my commands.

[Emmy Moore]

It is in first.

[Clarissa Rojas]

So it's like faith without works is dead. And everyone's like, oh, I didn't need to work my way to salvation. You don't. But the faith, your works and your. Your attitudes, the renewing of your minds are just fruits of the faith you have in God.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Like, we can't obey God and walk in unity with God, in oneness with God without having that faith. And then. Yeah, without that faith. Grace.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah. So for sure.

[Clarissa Rojas]

But it's grace, faith. It's almost like a math. That's the math I can do. Like, I couldn't do math in high school, but that's like math I can.

[Emmy Moore]

I can do God math.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Right. Like grace, faith, obedience, provision. And I mean, we see that with Abraham, like, the Lord graced him. The Lord was like, go out and do this by faith. It literally says by. By faith. Abraham obeyed in Hebrews 11. Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

And Noah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah. All of them, by faith, they obeyed. If then faith they obeyed went into places that they didn't know. They had no direction on, no instructions, they weren't given, no blueprint. God was just like, go and do this and do it well. And they went and did it anyway.

[Emmy Moore]

And what they had to do was hard. It. It was even just like a. Hey, like, you know what? If you come here, you're gonna be fine. Like, their lives were on the line.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Literally laying their son on the altar, building an ark so their families could be saved and that, like, literally, the Lord can deliver them like Noah. And then it's like. But you also see provision come right after that. The Lord provided a land for Abraham and then for Noah, like, literally the new land that lives on and, like, so much more. But literally, like, you know, we can sit here and be like, oh, yeah, the equation's so simple, but it's a daily thing.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

The mercies are new. It's continually doing that. And I think what keeps. I can speak for myself, but what keeps me on track with that equation is accountability.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

And this is coming from someone who never had accountability up until, like, two years ago.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Like, getting plugged into my church and allowing someone to be like, you're wrong to me, and being okay with that and being okay with it, because that happens a lot. Yes.

[Emmy Moore]

Me too.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah. And it's like. And there's sometimes where to, like, really hit me deep. I'm gonna bring up Len for a second, because that girl will be real with me.

[Emmy Moore]

We love Elena.

[Clarissa Rojas]

She will be real with me to the brink.

[Emmy Moore]

She'll be real with anybody. And I'm like, it's not just you. We love her, bro. That woman is a prophet. I already told her. I know she's a prophet, but.

[Clarissa Rojas]

And I've learned how to take correction from her, because here's the thing. Not only does she tell the truth and have it pierce me right in the heart, but she has so much grace. She knows how to balance grace and truth so well. And that's what a good teacher does.

[Emmy Moore]

It's met with a compassion that.

[Clarissa Rojas]

That's what a good discipler does. That's what a good teacher does. Like, and because she's been so gentle and graceful and truthful with me and has those working together so well, it keeps me accountable. Even the same with you. Like, literally having that great. Hey, look, Clarissa, like, this is wrong, and you need to fix that. But also, look, like, here's some scripture to help you. Like, there's grace for that. And, like, let's keep moving forward. Like, don't let the enemy kick you while you're down. Like, right. You don't belong down. Like, you know, whatever the encouragement is. And it's just like, in order to keep walking in obedience, walking in faith, walking into the unknown, being obedient, even though I can't see the outcome, relying on God's grace and learning to accept God's grace, because I can become so prideful that I don't receive his grace, I'm like, I don't deserve you, God. And even that's prideful.

[Emmy Moore]

Like, disobedient. Like, not receiving grace. Do you know what that reminds me of? That. That reminds me whenever Jesus is washing Peter's feet. And he's like. He's like, jesus, I'm not worthy for you to wash my feet. And he was like, if I don't wash your feet, you have no part of me. He said, the. The duck be in the water. Jesus, us dump me, bathe me, do put it on my head. And Jesus was like, no, just your feet, my boy. Like, just your feet. And it's like, that's how we be, though. It's like. Like, God, I don't need you to wash me. And he was like, you have no part of me to do all of me. And he's like, not like, just let me do what I wanted to do, because I know what you need. Yeah, that's so funny. But accountability is like, man, that's like, one thing that's absolutely changed my life. I think when I started getting friends that started to hold me accountable because I felt like I always held myself accountable because I never had friends who were comfortable or. I don't know, they never, like, it was even they were. Weren't comfortable. Like, there wasn't that level of being equally yoked to where they weren't able to call me out.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Right.

[Emmy Moore]

And so, like, now that I have, like, best friends like you and like, Amoye and like, Amani, like, people on the top of my head like, y'all, like, do not hold a bag. But it's because conviction from the Holy Spirit should always be, yes, convicting, but it's married with a compassion. Like the moment condemnation comes into play, that's from the pits of hell.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

And so it's. It's. It's being and living in the grace of God and not living in a spirit of offense, I think that's the biggest thing. Like, once I got out of the offensive state of mind and I. And. And the moment I stopped making everything about me, I started taking the convictions that people would give me a lot less defensive. Yeah, I should be like, oh, yeah, you're right. And that's cool. Like, I think one of the attributes, like, I feel I'm really blessed that I have, which I see lacking a lot of other people, is, like. Which. I didn't have this for a really long time. I'm finally in a place in my life where I'm really okay with being wrong. Why actually enjoy being wrong? Because when I'm wrong, I get to learn. But whenever I wasn't accountable and I had, like, a rebell. This, a rebellious attitude towards authority, every time I was told I Was wrong. Oh, I'd freak out. Yeah. Like, I would hate being wrong because there was a part of me that wanted to call shots and, like, be right. But once I surrendered that fully on to God, it truly changed my life and I was able to be truly accountable and not just, like, accounted for in areas, but transformed as well. But I also wanted to talk about, like, how that accountability, like, the conviction that comes with that, also flows into the obedience that God has called us into in certain situations. Like, say, if I could just give you one. On the top of my head, my mentors called me out on something where I, you know what it is? I'm gonna talk about it another episode because I'm like, bro, that is a different story. But they called me out on some stuff where I was like, like, oh, I'm down so bad. But when I tell you that that moment immediately made me turn around and repent towards God and, like, go through with obedience. It really did.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

And that's the point of conviction. It's God showing you. Hey, like, conviction should always be compact compassion. Because it's like, I love you so much that I'm showing you this. I told you this the other day. I was like. Because there was something that you reached out to me, and you're like, dang. Like, I hate that I'm seeing this right now. And I was like, clarissa, this is by the grace of God. He's showing you this because he tells you he doesn't want you to be in it. No, more. Like, that's actually compassionate God. Like, he's not condemning you. He's actually being very compassionate by showing you where you're wrong.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

I think we would be okay with being more wrong if we just allow the Holy Spirit to convict us. And, like, stop seeing. Because whenever you talk to me, I know it's not Clarissa and what she thinks it's like. No, God is using Clarissa to speak to me right now.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

Does that make sense?

[Clarissa Rojas]

No. A thousand percent. And I think a lot of accountability, when people do give accountability, you know, it's from the Spirit, when it's directly connected to his Word.

[Emmy Moore]

For sure.

[Clarissa Rojas]

If someone comes to me and they're like, you're doing this wrong, and look at the scripture that proves it. I'm not denying that absolutely. Because I'm like, I'm not going to deny scripture, because then I'd be calling God a liar, and I'm not going to do that.

[Emmy Moore]

Well, First John 4 says, Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the Spirits to whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the spirit of God.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah. And not only that, but a lot of why we've grown to become more receptive of correction and take accountability, I really do believe is because of the loving kindness that is displayed through the spirit of God in the people who we've chosen as our mentors because. Or who God has placed in our lives as our mentors because Scripture literally says it is the loving kindness of God that leaves a man leads a man to repentance. Your. Your condemnation, your harsh words, your. Your mean attitude towards what I'm going through or, like, whatever. Here's. Here's what I'm gonna tell you from experience. When I was dressing very immodestly, I had people throwing stones at me. It wasn't until this woman in my church, she was like, hey. Like, I just wanted to add. I can't fully remember the conversation, but I remember, like, her being so kind about it and, like, really just, like, it's just, you're. And she was talking more about my spirit than she was about my outward modesty. And that really convicted me. But it was her kindness about it, her language, her voice, her tone about it that made me want to change.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Forget all those other people who told me thousands of times, you shouldn't be doing that. You shouldn't. Blah, blah, blah. That didn't make me want to change. In fact, it made me want to rebel a little bit more. Like, I'm gonna be honest.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

But it is truly the loving kindness of God that leads someone to repentance. Condemnation is never going to make anyone change. You see something wrong on the Internet, you see something wrong in your friends. You see something going on in the congregation that shouldn't be happening. How are you going to approach that?

[Emmy Moore]

For sure?

[Clarissa Rojas]

Like, you know, and people can sit here and be like, oh, but Jesus flipped tables. Blah, blah, blah. You ain't Jesus.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah, you're not Jesus.

[Clarissa Rojas]

You ain't Jesus. Like, and it's like, always approaching people with kindness. Like, or how I approach. I would want to be spoken to because I know from my experiences, like, kindness has always been the reason, like, I've desired to change.

[Emmy Moore]

Right.

[Clarissa Rojas]

It's the love.

[Emmy Moore]

And kindness is not tolerant. That's where people get it mixed up. It's like, just because I'm kind doesn't mean I'm being tolerant to your behavior. It's actually, I'm empathizing with you, and I see The Spirit for what it is behind you and realize that I'm not worrying against flesh and blood, it's against principalities in the spiritual realm. So what you were going through with like immodesty or living in secularism, whatever it may be, that wasn't actually you. That was a bigger spirit behind you. But if people are going just to attack and feel this self righteousness and this like Pharisaic hole in their heart. Yeah. Then they're going to condemn you and you're going to receive it as condemnation. But they come. I know what scripture you were talking about was second second Timothy, chapter two. And I think it's verses 24 through 26. And it's like his loving kindness is intended to bring you back to repentance. To what? To remove the scales up out of your eyes and to remove you from the trap that the devil has ensnared you in. So you can no longer be a vessel to do his will, but now do the things of God. And I think it's like I even have a similar testimony too with the modesty thing. People would. Because I was an influencer before I was an influence for Christ. So people were on as I was, you know, getting saved. People were on my page throwing stones at me. And I never heard any of them. But the moment people started to sit me down, my mentor at the time sat me down. And then Amoye sat me down, she. And they were just like, look, we gotta be honest with you here. And that's what changed me, was so kind and compassionate. And it was people who had the authority to call me out and all these randos on the Internet, that's a big one. They were able to see my fruit and they were able to see my relationship with God, unlike all these people on the Internet. And I think another area where I was really ignorant for a really long time was, was also living a part of the world and listening to a lot of secular music that. Because that played a huge part in my faith. And then also like going out and hanging out with people who weren't really edifying my walk whatsoever. It's like people were telling me, throwing stones at me to not live this lifestyle. Stop listening to that music. Why are you making tick tocks to that sound? I'll just be like, I can listen to whatever I want. I don't have to accept that. All these things, things. And then the moment I actually got sat down and met the compassion of God, I realized, oh man, like I actually am wretched and I suck. And. But.

[Clarissa Rojas]

But.

[Emmy Moore]

But the tone does matter.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

Because you see, like, do you. Do you think Jesus was yelling at the prostitutes? No. Like, he sat and ate with them, but he told them the truth.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah. But it's like, there's a way to do it.

[Emmy Moore]

People don't understand the context of when he flipped the tables. Like, everyone who set up the temple to be a marketplace, they knew they shouldn't have done on that. So what's that? Like, these prostitutes and the tax collectors, like, they were in sin, and it was like they didn't understand, like, the full entirety of who God is versus these people who've been in the temple their whole entire lives. You set it up stands.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Right.

[Emmy Moore]

And it's like, God's like, Jesus is like, y'all, if anyone should know better as y'all.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

So if anything, there is, like, a higher conviction for those who are deeply invested into Christ.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

Because. Which is why whenever Moses hit the dang rock out of water or with this stone, and the water came out.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

It took one moment for Moses to drop the whole entire ball because God was like, you should know better out of everybody else.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

It's not a. There's a lack of grace. No, Grace is always there.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

God could have fully taken Moses off the planet Earth after he did that. But he didn't.

[Clarissa Rojas]

But it.

[Emmy Moore]

But it was a. It's a responsibility. Which is what James writes about in. In Chat in chapter three. He says, teachers, like, understand what you do is highly responsible work because you know better.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

So it's like, when you don't know better, there's a grace for that, and it shouldn't be met with condemnation. It needs to be met with a conviction. Married with compassion. Right?

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah. No. A thousand percent. Like, accountability is huge in our. In our walk with Christ.

[Emmy Moore]

I don't think repentance, like, accountability. That which leads to repentance. No.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah. And I mean, literally going back again. Literally. Just. I can't tell you. I see people throwing stones at people, and I'm like. Like, they're not gonna change if you do that.

[Emmy Moore]

Right.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Like, and not only that, like, encourage them to go to church and find leadership or, like, something like somebody who can pour into their lives. And, like. Like, when I see somebody who's rarely coming to Christ, I'm not gonna sit here and be like, you know what? The outfit you wore to church today, don't wear it again the next time you come, bro. They're not gonna.

[Emmy Moore]

This is your first day out.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah. They're not gonna come back, like.

[Emmy Moore]

Right.

[Clarissa Rojas]

You know what I'm saying? So it's just like, it's that slowly, like, sanctification isn't a one day thing.

[Emmy Moore]

No, it's not.

[Clarissa Rojas]

It is a daily. Yeah, it's a daily thing. And so it's. That's having. That's literally showing the grace of God, like, literally being like, I see where they're at right now and I'm going to be patient with them because that's what love is. And I'm going to, you know, just help them in their walk with that because, you know.

[Emmy Moore]

Well, it's not calling you to keep you in your iniquity.

[Clarissa Rojas]

It's just showing you there's a higher hope. No. Yeah. And that's through Christ and then understanding that you're not God, you can't deliver them.

[Emmy Moore]

True.

[Clarissa Rojas]

You're not. You're not the deliverer. You're not the one and you're not the convictor. Right.

[Emmy Moore]

Like, God is like, it's never you who convicts. It's the Holy Spirit inside of you who convicts. Like the moment it's like, oh, like Clarissa convicted me. You already in the wrong. Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Right.

[Emmy Moore]

And so am I. Yeah. For allowing that, like, the Holy Spirit uses you to convict me.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

Like, it's never a you thing and it's never like, we're right. Like, honestly, what I think it is, I think it's two things. I think it's fake rage. I think people are pissed off for no reason and they act and, and they're. And they're, they're so mad for a moment and then like they forget about it. But these people actually aren't taking your circumstances that deep.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

One, two. It's people wanting to be right so bad. And it's people wanting to be God.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

People just want to be right.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

It's like what happens when you're right. It's like, it's like an ego thing.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah. It's like it fills them up or fuels them somehow.

[Emmy Moore]

I don't freaking know. But yeah, I think. Well, even being transparent, I think early on in my walk. Well, we even talked about that. I had a lot of those problems. Like, I wanted to be right so bad to where I was actually proving myself absolutely so wrong when I was doing that. But I think the, the wanting of wanting to be right comes from wanting to be heard, seen and loved with no consequences or afflictions.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

But knowing that you're hurt, seen and loved through Christ alone and you don't have to beg all these people to hear and see you or whatever it may be, when Christ already validates you and what you proclaim is his truth and not yours. So even the responsibility doesn't even fall on you. It falls on the Lord. Because it's his truth.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

It's not your knowledge, it's His.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah. I even believe with. When a person is kind of, like, eager about those things, like. Or like. Like you said that fake anger of like, oh, you need to change, or like, you need to do this, you need to do that. Whatever it is, it's this one. If you haven't been through the problem either, don't go talking about it like, for example, like, if.

[Emmy Moore]

Or if you're dealing with the same exact thing.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Like, if you haven't been delivered from it either, don't go like, right. Trying to deliver somebody else from it. But, like, for example, if I never struggled with modesty or being modest, I would never go to someone and be like, blah, blah. Because I don't. I can't sympathize with you in that area. I don't know your struggle in that. But if anything, I could encourage you and be like, hey, look, like. Like, you know, the Lord can sympathize with you in this or in this area, in that area, and whatever areas you're struggling with.

[Emmy Moore]

Right.

[Clarissa Rojas]

And it's just like, I would just never correct somebody in an area that I haven't gone through myself because I haven't learned it or I haven't taught.

[Emmy Moore]

Been taught or even. There's times where, like, this is me being so transparent. I be at, like, church services, and I feel like. Because I love to just pray for people and help people. That's just me. And I remember there was one girl beside me, like, they were like, if you're dealing with, like, fear and anxiety, raise your hand and have people come lay hands on you or whatever. And this girl said she was dealing with, like, fear and anxiety, and they're like, go pray for her. And I felt the Lord be like, don't pray for her, because you're struggling with the same exact thing. And how could you deliver another person when you can't even allow me to deliver you, man? And I was like, yeah, let me just. Just sit back and deal with this. It's like, in other areas where I know, like, I'm not gonna advise somewhere, someone in an area where I'm also struggling.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

And so I think that that moment, though, like, I remember it, I stood back and I was like, dang. Like that made me actually want to heal. Not just for the sake of myself, but also for the sake to help other people.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yes. Consider others as more important than yourself.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Because that's really what it's about. It's about serving others and helping others. Like even the king didn't come to be served, he came to serve.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

And I want to add language a little bit more to that. The anger and the getting mad because we've talked about this where it's like it becomes this self righteous thing because you already know.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

And so you're eager for the other person to know.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

But their eyes haven't been open to that. And that's such a tricky place to be in self righteousness and like pride really at the root of it. It. Because it's like you're like, I know what? And it stems into anger because it's like the other person's not getting it. They're not getting it clicked. It's not going through their head. They're not learning from it.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

And so it's like, then that anger starts to arise. But it's like God's like, I haven't, you know, given them the wisdom about this and it's probably because they haven't asked for it.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Because you know, you have to ask for wisdom to get it.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

You want to know why you're dealing with what you're dealing with. You can know.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Ask for wisdom and discernment about. He literally says, like, ask for wisdom and I will give it to you.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah. Like what?

[Clarissa Rojas]

What Father Gen wouldn't genuinely and generously give you wisdom? Like, he literally says that. And so it's just like in First James or in James, not First James, but yeah. Like you want to know like what you're dealing with more. Like, get wisdom on it, ask for it.

[Emmy Moore]

Like, it's like literally everything's just found in the scriptures, boy.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah. It's all there. Fasting, accountability, church, man. There's a whole bunch that plays into.

[Emmy Moore]

But there's grace to learn it and there's time.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Right.

[Emmy Moore]

And it's okay if you don't got to figure it out right now because there's room for you to grow.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Right.

[Emmy Moore]

And that's that. I think it's like knowing like, yeah, there's work that needs to be done, but there's grace and time for that to be done.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

And like God also wants you to rest in the midst of it. So don't be overwhelmed with all these things because you're like, yeah, sure, it's great. And like, yeah, you need step in obedience. You need to do the things of God. But it's like, it's by his grace and by his timing, not by yours.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Right. Because we don't serve a God who's consumed or confound by time.

[Emmy Moore]

No, he actually don't get phased by it at all. Because he made it. Right. He just created it.

[Clarissa Rojas]

No.

[Emmy Moore]

How silly. A God, like, that's so crazy to think about. Yeah. I'm gonna create this thing called time.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Right.

[Emmy Moore]

Which I don't exist in, but it'd be fun for my creation to be in. Like what? Like, the mind of God is actually insane.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

Because he could have chose anything, but chose this. This.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Right.

[Emmy Moore]

But he actually had to choose this because if he didn't choose this, it wouldn't have lined up with his nature.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

So it is perfect that he chose this because it makes sense for God.

[Clarissa Rojas]

God is really God. Like, that's just. He's big.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Remember when we were at, what is it, the horseshoe in Arizona.

[Emmy Moore]

Yes.

[Clarissa Rojas]

And that big rock. We were like looking down at them.

[Emmy Moore]

I'm like, bro, I feel like I'm looking at like, like, like a hair of God right now.

[Clarissa Rojas]

No, when you said that, that still sticks with me to this day. When I was coming down from that mountain, I was looking at it so differently from when I usually drive down here.

[Emmy Moore]

Literally felt like I saw the face of God.

[Clarissa Rojas]

I was like, I'm like, God is way bigger than this.

[Emmy Moore]

It was so ginormous.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Immediately, fear of the Lord overcame me.

[Emmy Moore]

Every time I go on go by a cliff, I always go, what happens if I jump? Like, that's just always my thought. But it's because I'm like, this is so big and like, so massive.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Right.

[Emmy Moore]

And it's like, like, like I am nothing compared to this. Like, if I were to fall down this clip, like, I die.

[Clarissa Rojas]

You know what's crazy about a thought like that? Because I'm pretty sure other people are like, like looking over something like that. It's like if you don't believe, you have choice. Like, you can literally choose to jump off of it. And like, that's it, that's done.

[Emmy Moore]

Sometimes what I do too, I, like, spit and then count how long it takes to like, hit the floor. Sometimes I just spit. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. Okay. It's a five second drop.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Oh, God have mercy on us.

[Emmy Moore]

Just curious. Not like I was gonna do anything.

[Clarissa Rojas]

No, a thousand percent. Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

It's those intrusive thoughts. No, I think it's just child in me too. I would just spit everywhere. As a kid. That was me. Like in the bleachers. When you watch a football, you turn you at the top one, turn around, spit. I'm also from the country. Maybe that's why I was about to say I've never, never done that. I was like, it's definitely like a country thing.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Maybe on a ride, actually.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Spitting gum out.

[Emmy Moore]

Oh, yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

And then watching how long it fall.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah.

[Clarissa Rojas]

I'm like, drop a boon or something.

[Emmy Moore]

I'll drop it to misgrace. Somebody finna drop a doom. Somebody gonna get a peppermint extra gum. Or was it worb it or whatever.

[Clarissa Rojas]

That's bad.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah, I mean, I feel pleased with that.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah. In Jesus name. Well, thank you for coming on.

[Clarissa Rojas]

No, thank you for having me.

[Emmy Moore]

Finna. Well, this podcast is gonna come out later, but we gonna get some jammies and have a party. Yes, A Christian party.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Not a right don't.

[Emmy Moore]

You can still have a party. No.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah, a friends gathering.

[Emmy Moore]

Friends gathering.

[Clarissa Rojas]

Yeah. Which is fun and festive live.

[Emmy Moore]

Yeah, super fun.

[Clarissa Rojas]

No, I love you so much.

[Emmy Moore]

I love you too. This is such a good combo. I can't wait to watch you back. Well, we love you guys very much and we pray that God has been glorified through this conversation and that you guys go blessed in Jesus name. All right, love you guys. Bye.