Negotiation with the Devil | 5

Summary

Scam Factory: Episode 5 – "Negotiation with the Devil"

Introduction

In the gripping fifth installment of Wondery's Scam Factory, titled "Negotiation with the Devil," host Denise Chan delves deeper into the harrowing reality of human trafficking operations disguised as legitimate businesses. This episode centers around Charlie, a key player in the scam factory, and her tumultuous journey from unwitting participant to a determined rescuer seeking to save her family and others entangled in the syndicate's web.

Colonel’s Confrontation with Charlie

The episode opens with Colonel and his assistants choosing a cozy Filipino restaurant to meet with Charlie, who has been evasive about her involvement in the scam operations. Colonel's strategy is to build trust rather than resort to interrogation, aiming to extract crucial information from Charlie.

Colonel [01:21]: "I know she did not tell everything."

Charlie had previously withheld significant details about her travel agency's role in facilitating human trafficking, her connections with high-level recruiters within the compound, and the dire circumstances of her two brothers trapped in the scam factory. Recognizing the value of Charlie's insider knowledge, Colonel adopts a "good cop" approach to encourage her cooperation.

Colonel [02:39]: "I told her, okay, just think first, what is good for you?"

Colonel [02:47]: "You have to gain trust. If she trusts you, she will not tell you a lie."

To demonstrate his sincerity, Colonel arranges for Charlie to meet with representatives from the International Justice Mission, a nonprofit dedicated to combating human trafficking. This meeting is designed to show Charlie that her situation is being taken seriously and to facilitate a more open dialogue.

Charlie’s Reluctant Cooperation

As the meeting progresses, Colonel's subtle interrogation leads Charlie to begin opening up about her role in the scam operation. Despite her initial resistance, the fear of severe legal consequences and the potential loss of her brothers compels her to start revealing critical information.

Colonel [04:29]: "Based on that story, she is involved. She has a deep connection with the Syndicate."

Colonel [05:47]: "You have to reveal everything you know so that we can help you. Because if we don't know what's the real thing that happened, we cannot help you."

Facing mounting pressure, Charlie finally acknowledges her involvement and provides Colonel with a comprehensive list of individuals her travel agency had trafficked. This includes 59 people who were intercepted by immigration and 31 who were successfully sent to various compounds, including those where her brothers were held.

Charlie [10:06]: "It has to be like a two way. Like, they will help me, but I have to be honest with them. I will say everything, Even single detail that you need to know. Just help me get them out. That's it."

Planning the Escape

With the evidence now laid bare, Colonel emphasizes the necessity of public cooperation to facilitate the escape of the trafficked individuals, including Charlie's brothers. He instructs Charlie to reach out to the 31 people still trapped and provide them with his contact information to begin organizing their escape plans.

Colonel [13:07]: "We will not pursue a case against you, but you have to help us get these people out of the compound."

Charlie agrees to assist, outlining that the responsibility lies with each victim to approach the complaint desk and navigate the perilous process of reclaiming their freedom. Meanwhile, she remains in Bangkok, coordinating with Colonel to ensure the success of the rescue mission.

Internal Struggles and Rising Tensions

As plans for the escape are set in motion, internal dynamics within the compound begin to unravel. Jane and Max, Charlie's siblings, become increasingly desperate to leave. Their clandestine efforts to organize with other victims are met with brutal retaliation from the syndicate's leadership.

Charlie [14:16]: "I want to leave the place. I want to leave the compound."

Charlie [24:17]: "They're trying to send the message that this is what will happen to you if you try to escape the compound. The only thing that I can remember is they told me, no one can escape. No one can escape."

A turning point occurs when Max and Jane are violently assaulted for allegedly plotting an escape, as presented through doctored evidence resembling a group chat.

Max [23:34]: "I think I'm going to die."

Charlie [24:30]: "During that time, I thought, I'm going to die. I just surrendered. I just thought to myself that maybe this is the end of my life."

Colonel’s Strategic Move

In response to the brutal crackdown, Colonel devises a leverage strategy to negotiate the release of Max, Jane, and others. He instructs Charlie to use the newly revealed evidence of torture and threats as a bargaining chip with the syndicate, aiming to secure the safe exit of the entire group.

Colonel [27:47]: "We will use this as leverage."

Colonel [27:53]: "If you want to get out of the compound, this is the perfect time. You approach the complaint test and show them that you were being beaten and you don't want to work in that company again."

The Cliffhanger: A Desperate Plea

As plans intensify, Charlie remains the lynchpin of the operation. Her unwavering trust in Colonel and her faith that the escape will succeed are tested when Dev, the syndicate leader, confronts her directly, undermining her confidence and threatening her safety.

Charlie [30:18]: "Do you think that you are so powerful that you can get these people out? You are absolutely wrong."

The episode culminates in a nail-biting cliffhanger, leaving listeners eager to uncover the outcome of Charlie's desperate negotiations and the fate of her family in the final episode.

Conclusion

"Negotiation with the Devil" masterfully intertwines tension, strategy, and emotional depth, highlighting the complexities of dismantling a human trafficking syndicate from within. Denise Chan's narration, combined with poignant dialogues and strategic revelations, paints a vivid picture of Charlie's perilous journey toward liberation and justice.

Notable Quotes

• Colonel [02:39]: "I told her, okay, just think first, what is good for you?"
• Charlie [10:06]: "I will say everything, Every single detail that you need to know. Just help me get them out. That's it."
• Colonel [13:07]: "We will not pursue a case against you, but you have to help us get these people out of the compound."
• Max [23:34]: "I think I'm going to die."
• Charlie [30:18]: "Do you think that you are so powerful that you can get these people out? You are absolutely wrong."

Production Credits

Scam Factory is crafted with meticulous attention to detail by a dedicated team, including story editor Lou Okowski, senior producer Claire Chambers, associate producer Evangeline Barras, and reporting by Wijitra Duang Di. The episode's sound design and mixing were expertly handled by Jamie Cooper, with an original score by Tangeline Bolton and music supervision by Scott Velasquez.

Next Episode Tease

As "Negotiation with the Devil" concludes, the stage is set for the final episode of Scam Factory. Listeners can anticipate the resolution of Charlie's high-stakes negotiation and the ultimate fate of her family's struggle against the entrenched syndicate, promising a dramatic and satisfying conclusion to this intense true-crime saga.

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This summary captures the essence and key developments of "Negotiation with the Devil," providing a comprehensive overview for those who have yet to experience the harrowing narrative of Scam Factory.

Transcript

[Denise Chan]

Wondery subscribers can binge all episodes of Scam Factory early and ad free. Join Wonder plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Wondery Colonel and his assistants stepped into a small, laid back restaurant. On the wall above the cashier hung the words Bringing the Philippines closer to you. The place was warm and welcoming and served really good Filipino food. Which was exactly why Colonel had chosen it. Almost immediately, he spotted Charlie at a table in the corner. She was with her girlfriend and another man. They were chatting away. Colonel gave his assistant a knowing glance. His plan was working. They made their way over to a table and sat on a pair of stools. He wanted to be close enough to keep tabs, but far enough to give them some privacy. You need privacy for a confession. And that is exactly what Colonel was hoping for. He'd set this meeting up because he wanted Charlie to be straight with him. And because he knew that up until this point, she had not.

[Colonel]

I know she did not tell everything.

[Denise Chan]

The list of things Charlie had not confessed in their first meeting was long. She hadn't admitted the role her travel agency played in the entire Scam operation, or explained why she had such a friendly relationship with a high level recruiter inside the compound, or revealed how exactly she had such a huge amount of insider knowledge about how the compound operated. She hadn't even told him the whole truth about the two brothers she wanted to rescue.

[Colonel]

She did not admit she is the unresponsive mori to bring her brothers there.

[Denise Chan]

That she was how they ended up there. And Colonel knew all this, or enough to piece it together. He'd warned Charlie that he would investigate her if she didn't tell him the truth. But he'd stopped short of forcing her to confess because he'd also decided she was much more valuable as a source than as a suspect. The kind of information she had could not just help with rescues. It could help them understand the Syndicate and who was responsible. But he needed to know she was trustworthy. So he decided to play nice cop to see if he could get her to open up that way.

[Colonel]

I told her, okay, just think first, what is good for you?

[Denise Chan]

If she was going to talk, he needed to earn her trust.

[Colonel]

You have to gain trust. If she trusts you, she will not tell you a lie.

[Denise Chan]

So instead of interrogating her again, Colonel asked Charlie to come to lunch to talk to someone from the International Justice Mission, a non profit organization he worked closely with that focused on helping human trafficking victims. It was a way to show he took the situation she was in seriously. Plus Colonel hoped maybe the nonprofit would have better luck getting information out of Charlie, since they weren't the police. So that's why they were all here in this restaurant towards the end of a lunch rush. Colonel watched their conversation from a safe distance. Charlie seemed much more relaxed than she had in his office.

[Colonel]

She is very confident about telling everything.

[Denise Chan]

Then the man asked her directly about her role.

[Colonel]

How does she help in terms of how these victims travel? Going to Myanmar?

[Denise Chan]

This was the question Colonel was most interested in.

[Colonel]

I'm just waiting for her revelation, or she will admit that she is one of those silk of this syndicate.

[Denise Chan]

Colonel wanted Charlie to confess to sending people to the scam factory using her travel agency. The name of Charlie's travel agency had already come up several times. And statements from people Colonel had helped get out of the scam compounds. But Charlie didn't take the opportunity to come clean. Colonel was going to have to do this the hard way. After the meeting, he put it to her plainly.

[Colonel]

Based on that story, she is involved. She has a deep connection with the Syndicate.

[Denise Chan]

I know you're involved and you know that.

[Colonel]

I know our information is now pointing at you. And I know that you know that because there are some who mentioned her name already.

[Denise Chan]

The evidence was damning. The authorities would have a good case and the punishment would be severe.

[Colonel]

Do you know if the case of human trafficking will be filed against you? That's life imprisonment and no bail.

[Denise Chan]

If Charlie went to jail, she might never get her brothers out. She might never see her brothers again.

[Colonel]

She's really scared. There's a case that will be filed against her.

[Denise Chan]

But if she admitted to what she'd done, if she gave up information about Dev and the Syndicate, if and when it got back to them, her life could be in danger. Her whole family could be in danger. Colonel knew exactly the position he'd put Charlie in. He saw her value and he saw how much she wanted to prove her value. So he turned the screws. He only had one lifeline to offer her.

[Colonel]

You have to reveal everything you know so that we can help you. Because if we don't know what's the real thing that happened, we cannot help you.

[Denise Chan]

Charlie was trapped again. If she was going to get out of this mess, it had to start with the ugly truth. Hey.

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[Denise Chan]

From Wondering. I'm Denise Chan and this is Scam Fact. This is episode five, Negotiation with the Devil. Over the next few days, Charlie started to admit what she'd been doing for the last five months.

[Colonel]

She told me about her role. Her travel agency was used to book.

[Denise Chan]

Trafficking victims exactly what Colonel had suspected.

[Charlie]

So he was like, basically you were part of them.

[Denise Chan]

With Charlie's admission, he wanted to know if she was willing to cooperate.

[Charlie]

He asked me, are you willing to give me the information of these people, their pictures, what it is look like when you visited that place?

[Denise Chan]

Colonel wanted names, he wanted specifics. He wanted any receipts or evidence that she had. At this Charlie got nervous.

[Charlie]

I told him that I will just provide all the information, like the very sensitive information once my brothers are out because I'm just scared that some of the information might leak and it will reach Dev.

[Denise Chan]

Colonel could see she was scared, rightfully so. She was dealing with dangerous people. But Charlie hadn't exactly shown herself to be the Most trustworthy person to deal with either. After my brothers are out was not a blanket condition he could agree to. After all, it was the information she had that would allow him to offer her protection.

[Colonel]

I told her that, okay, we have to work together so we can get her siblings out.

[Denise Chan]

Colonel could only help her if she helped him. She had to trust him. Charlie understood.

[Charlie]

It has to be like a two way. Like, they will help me, but I have to be honest with them. I will say everything, even if you'll judge me. I don't care anymore. I will tell you everything, Every single detail that you need to know. Just help me get them out. That's it.

[Denise Chan]

And she was ready to cooperate.

[Charlie]

So I provided them how it went, how I got involved, and who's the person giving me instructions and all.

[Denise Chan]

Charlie told Colonel how the recruitment process worked and the names of people she worked with. She shared photos from inside the compound. She offered evidence of financial transactions and details of her travel agency. She even admitted to having recruited five women herself, Two of whom were now recruiters.

[Charlie]

And then he told me that. All right, so here's what we are going to do.

[Denise Chan]

First, Colonel wanted Charlie to make a promise.

[Charlie]

After this, just make sure that you will not be involved in recruiting again. I said yes, that's a guarantee.

[Denise Chan]

She needed to be done with the syndicate for real. Then he wanted to know about the victims. Colonel had been stationed with the embassy in Bangkok to help Filipino nationals who had been trafficked and sent to these compounds. He knew there must be dozens of them sitting in compounds because of her.

[Colonel]

I told her to submit another names of those who were booked in her traveling agency.

[Denise Chan]

Colonel wanted a list of everyone Charlie had booked tickets for. Charlie went through her records and made a spreadsheet with every single person. A list of 59 people she indicated who never made it to the compound because they were stopped at immigration. For the 31 who did make it. She color coded to show which compound they were sent to. Golden State. Like her brothers in Yuki, KK park, like Jella, or the compound where Dev was based. Dongfang. Among those names were the five women she had recruited. As were Yuki and Jela and Josh and Max. Colonel knew it was those last two names that really mattered to Charlie.

[Colonel]

Her objective is to get her two siblings out. But I told her, if you want to get them out, we have to get those people also who you booked to go to Myanmar.

[Denise Chan]

Colonel wanted to help every Filipino he could. This was why he wanted that list from Charlie. He could share the names of victims who had been offloaded with Philippines immigration to keep them from getting through in the future. And he could offer assistance to the people she'd sent to the compounds who were still there if Charlie agreed to help. If Charlie wanted Colonel's protection, she needed to do what he was asking.

[Colonel]

I told her, we will not pursue a case against you, but you have to help us get these people out of the compound.

[Denise Chan]

So Colonel told her she needed to reach out to the 31 people on her list. She needed to see if they wanted to leave and give them his number. This was her chance to let them know there was a way out, including her brothers. It was time to start organizing plans for their escape. But Colonel warned Charlie there were no guarantees. Her brothers and their co workers would have to find the complaint desk and convince their bosses to return their passports. It wouldn't be easy, and it would not be without danger. Charlie didn't care how risky it was. She was already in danger. She was out of options. How much worse could things get inside the compound? Jane was starting to crack from the endless hours of scamming. Sitting in their dorm room, she confided in Max.

[Charlie]

I want to leave the place. I want to leave the compound.

[Denise Chan]

It had been six long months. Jane didn't know how she would make it to the end of her contract. Max asked if she could keep a secret. He is also planning to leave. And not just planning to leave. Had an actual plan to leave with his sister. She was in Bangkok working with a colonel from the embassy, getting things ready for an escape. Jane couldn't believe what he was telling her. An escape.

[Charlie]

Please help include us.

[Denise Chan]

Jane asked if he could help her get out, too. Max told her, don't worry. His sister was trying to get a bunch of people out. She suddenly felt something she hadn't in a long time.

[Charlie]

I'm hopeful.

[Colonel]

I'm excited.

[Denise Chan]

There is a hope that I can.

[Charlie]

Give the compound without anything bad happens to me.

[Denise Chan]

Jane volunteered to help Charlie and her brothers plan their rescue mission. Charlie was feeding Max information in pieces. They spoke in code, knowing the bosses had eyes on almost everything. They agreed that the escape should happen in a few weeks after everyone got their next paycheck. That would give enough time for Max and Jane to gather the names of all the Filipinos from their compound who wanted to get out. But Charlie warned them they needed to be very, very careful. There were rumors that workers were given a cash reward for snitching on each other, Especially if they had intel that someone was trying to escape. And if someone Told the bosses what they were planning. That would be it. While her brothers and Jane were busy organizing on the inside, Charlie stayed put in Bangkok working with Colonel she had rented an apartment and she wasn't going anywhere until her mission was complete. And on this night, Charlie and her girlfriend stepped out for a bite to eat. They decided on a Filipino restaurant called Lola's Kitchen. It was a cozy place with bright yellow walls and bold patterned booths. And it felt like home.

[Charlie]

I was eating some of my favorite food at that restaurant. Sinigang, some bangus, the milk fish, chop sui, the mixed vegetables stir fry.

[Denise Chan]

She was still a chain smoking ball of nerves, but it was the calmest she'd felt in a long time. If everything went according to plan, in just a few short weeks, she would be helping her brothers escape.

[Charlie]

It was like a thorn that was taken out from my chest.

[Denise Chan]

But she still felt her stomach drop every time she saw a message from Dev pop up. She was terrified he'd find out what she was doing, that she'd gone and ratted him out. She'd also promised Colonel she wouldn't send anyone else into the scam factory. So she was stringing Dev along, sidestepping him every time he asked if she had any new recruits.

[Charlie]

I was like, oh yeah. I just waiting for them to send me the path details, to send me a typing test, to send me an introduction video, stuff like that. But I don't have any. I'm just making excuses.

[Denise Chan]

So far the excuses seem to be working. So Charlie let herself relax and enjoy this moment with her girlfriend.

[Charlie]

There's a videoque in the restaurant as well. So my partner is a singer. So she sang some songs.

[Denise Chan]

As Charlie's girlfriend belted out Dancing Queen, Charlie couldn't help but daydream about what it would be like when her brothers could be at that table eating and laughing with them. After dinner, they caught the bus back home. Charlie was still in a good mood, still daydreaming about the reunion with her brothers. Feeling like she could keep up this act with Dev for just a few more weeks. The end of this nightmare all felt so close. And that's when Josh called.

[Charlie]

I said, what's going on? And then his voice is shaky. That time he said that they took Max and Jane.

[Denise Chan]

Charlie knew they meant the bosses.

[Charlie]

And then he said, do something. Do something right now. They will kill my brother. They will kill my brother.

[Denise Chan]

They were so close to getting out of this, but was it already too late?

[Charlie]

So I was like, fuck, fuck.

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[Denise Chan]

The day had started like most other days in the scam factory. Wake up at 3pm, have breakfast, go to work at 4.30pm, hand over your personal phone, grab your multiple work phones, pull up one of your fake profiles and start sending messages to unsuspecting people all over the world. Like always, Max and Jane had been very careful to delete any sensitive messages from their phones before getting to work, especially anything that had to do with the plans they were making with Charlie. But when Max got called to see the boss during his shift, he immediately got a sinking feeling. As he stepped into the manager's office, he could see five men waiting for him. The men were enraged. Their eyes are very red, like they want to eat someone. Immediately they were confrontational. Tell me what you know. Tell me what you know. But Max didn't know what they were talking about.

[Colonel]

Then they just told me, oh, you don't know.

[Denise Chan]

The men pulled up a screenshot and shoved it in his face. The screenshot showed a group chat. It looked like it was between Max, Jane and one other co worker, but Max didn't recognize it. He wasn't in a group chat with Jane and this co worker. The bosses pointed to the screenshot and claimed they were trying to warn a customer. Don't deposit anymore because it's a scam. Don't deposit anymore. It's a scam. That wasn't all. The bosses of the group chat showed them plotting an escape. Max didn't know what the fuck was going on. Had someone snitched on them? They'd heard people got paid to tell on their co workers. Charlie had warned them. They'd been so careful. But did their bosses know what their real plans were? Had someone set them up and doctored this screenshot? Max tried to tell his bosses the messages weren't real.

[Colonel]

I'm telling them that it's fake, but.

[Denise Chan]

They don't believe me. Max kept insisting the screenshot was fake. He didn't send those messages. That's when the men began to beat him. They smashed me in the back. They kicked me in the legs. They are kicking me in the body. Every time. He insisted it was fake, they hit him again. One man had a wire wrapped around his fist. Another had a bat. They were beating him relentlessly that time.

[Colonel]

I think I'm going to die.

[Denise Chan]

Then the men took Max out of the office and into the work area. He spotted someone in the corner, crying. Crying so hard was Jane. She was covered in bruises. Jane had been confronted with the same screenshot. And when she denied any involvement, she was brutally beaten, then dragged into the work area.

[Charlie]

During that time, I thought, I'm going to die. I just surrendered. I just thought to myself that maybe this is the end of my life.

[Denise Chan]

The bosses continue to beat Jane in front of all her co workers.

[Charlie]

They're trying to send the message that this is what will happen to you if you try to escape the compound. The only thing that I can remember is they told me, no one can escape. No one can escape.

[Denise Chan]

No one can escape. It was a message not just to Jane and Max, but to everyone. And that message was spreading quickly from the office floor to the dorms to the cafeteria, which is how Yuki and Josh found out. They were on a short break when they spotted a big group of Filipinos huddled together.

[Josh]

Almost all of them are crying. And then they told us that Max and Jane got beaten up.

[Denise Chan]

Hearing the news of Max's beating, it was like a switch flow flipped in Josh.

[Josh]

I am just looking at Josh during that moment because seeing his eyes, you know that he can kill people. Each and every one of us know how much he loves his brother.

[Denise Chan]

Josh bombarded the group with questions like, where are they?

[Josh]

Where are they? If they got beaten up, are they okay? Are they really badly hurt?

[Denise Chan]

When they did find them, the moment.

[Josh]

We saw Jane and Max, we're all very shocked.

[Denise Chan]

There was blood. They were covered in cuts. Jane's eyes were swollen from crying.

[Josh]

I cried of course, because I'm very close with Jane. Seeing her in that kind of situation, that broke my heart. I saw her crying during that moment, so I cried as well. She told me that Yuki, I thought, I'm going, going to die. Like she already welcomed her fate. She told me that Yuki, I want to leave, like right now. I was like, I'm coming with you. I'm coming with you. We're all calming her down. She's repeating herself. She really wanted to go home. She don't want to stay there anymore.

[Denise Chan]

The beating wasn't going to stop them from trying to escape. In fact, it only made them more determined. But it had also made one thing absolutely clear. There would be a heavy price to pay for leaving. And this had just been a warning.

[Charlie]

The time that I saw the pictures, I felt like my soul is separating from my body.

[Denise Chan]

Charlie looked at the photos she was getting from the group at the compound. Max had gashes on his shoulder and his neck. His arms were bruised from where he'd been hit with a wooden bat. On the back of his head, a huge bump peeked out from underneath his short hair. He was alive and resting in his dorm, but he and Jane had been hurt badly. It was 10:00 at night, but she immediately forwarded the photos to Colonel.

[Colonel]

They were being tortured.

[Denise Chan]

Charlie was in a panic.

[Colonel]

She's very worried, of course. I just told her, don't panic.

[Denise Chan]

They needed to be swift and clear headed because this was a dangerous situation. The group needed to leave as soon as possible. And Colonel saw a way that this terrible turn of events could help them do just that.

[Colonel]

We will use this as leverage.

[Denise Chan]

Use this as leverage for their release.

[Colonel]

If you want to get out of the compound, this is the perfect time. You approach the complaint test and show them that you were being beaten and you don't want to work in that company again.

[Denise Chan]

Yep. Even though Max and Jane were brutally beaten, they'd still have to go to the complaint desk and wait it out like everyone else. The only way out of this hell was to know there was a complaint desk, find it and lodge a complaint, even if you were still bleeding from being beaten to a pulp. Colonel walked Charlie through what the Group would need to do from there. Wait, Stay put. It could take a few minutes or it could take a few hours, but at some point, their bosses would show up and they would try every tactic in the book to persuade them to stay at the compound.

[Colonel]

They will promise everything to you, so just don't believe the group needed to.

[Denise Chan]

Stand firm and insist on leaving the compound. It would be a waiting game. Meanwhile, Charlie would have her part to play because this was unlike any other escape Colonel had been involved in. He was working with someone who worked for the syndicate.

[Colonel]

They have the leverage on Charlie because of her two brothers who are working there.

[Denise Chan]

Yes, they would be negotiating Max and Josh and the rest of the group's release, but really, they'd be negotiating Charlie's. From the moment Charlie had peppered Dev with a million questions at that recruitment luncheon, he had set his eyes on her. She was sharp. She was brazen. She was more than a little fearless. She was someone who could be very useful to him. Max and Josh were just pawns. They were low level scammers, totally replaceable. But they were Charlie's brothers. And as long as they were in that compound, Dev could get Charlie to do anything he wanted. Why would he willingly let go of that? Her brother's fate was in her hands. And even after all she'd gone through, Charlie still believed she could beat Dev.

[Charlie]

I'm just trusting myself. I'm trusting Colonel. I'm trusting God that this will work. This will work.

[Denise Chan]

The devil, though, had other ideas.

[Charlie]

I was kind of shaking. He told me that. Do you think that you are so powerful that you can get these people out? You are absolutely wrong.

[Denise Chan]

That's on the next and final episode of Scam Factory. Follow Scam Factory on the Wondery app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes early and ad free right now by joining Wondery in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short [e-mail] survey if you have a tip about a story you think we should investigate, please write to [e-mail] tips from Wondery. This is episode 5 of 6 of Scam Factory, a story about a brother, his sister, and the big business of lies. Scam Factory is written, reported and hosted by me, Denise Chan. Our story editor is Lou Okowski. Senior producer is Claire Chambers. Associate producer is Evangeline Barras. Reporting by Wijitra Duang Di. Additional reporting by Johnvik Matthew. Additional production assistance from Emily Locke, Malachi Wade. And Mariah Dennis. Audio assistance by Daniel William Gonzalez Sound design and mixing by Jamie Cooper Sound supervisor is Marcelino Villapando Original score by Tangeline Bolton Music supervisor is Scott Velasquez. For Frison Sink Senior managing producer is Latta Pandya Managing producer is Heather Baloga Senior development editor is Rachel B. Doyle. Fact checking by Jacqueline Colletti Executive producers are Julia Lowery Henderson, George Lavender, Marshall Louie and Jen Sargent. For Wonder.

[Narrator]

Are you captivated by the dark and mysterious world of true crime? Wondery offers you the ultimate true crime experience with early access to new episodes, exclusive content and a seamless ad Free listening journey with Wonry. Plus you'll get access to hundreds of podcasts, including more than 50 true crime series like Dr. Death, the shocking true story of a trusted surgeon who brought unimaginable pain and suffering to his patients. This was not an operation that was performed.

[Denise Chan]

This was attempted murder.

[Narrator]

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[Denise Chan]

This case is one of those rollercoaster.

[Narrator]

Rides where it's like, no, he did it for sure.

[Denise Chan]

No, for sure he did it.

[Narrator]

Each story is crafted to keep you enthralled, revealing the complexities and motivations behind every crime. Subscribe to Wondery on the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify today. Unlock the door to a world of true crime like never before. With Wondery, the best true crime stories are always at your fingertips.