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- [00:00]
Denise Chan
Wondery subscribers can binge all episodes of Scam Factory early and ad free. Join Wonder in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Wondry. Imagine a new side hustle has just landed in your lap. Like literally landed in your lap. All you had to do was respond to a random Facebook post and boom.
- [00:29]
Luna
Hi, I'm Luna from Hotel Hub. Our recruitment team sent us your application. Are you looking for an online booking assistant job?
- [00:37]
Denise Chan
Luna gets you set up in the company's WhatsApp group called Deal Smashers. With a dollar sign, eyes emoji and its tongue sticking out. The gig is super easy. Review a few hotels and make a couple hundred bucks.
- [00:51]
Luna
Now that you've gone through the training, I'll start assigning you reviews so you can get started.
- [00:56]
Denise Chan
Plus, Luna seems really nice.
- [00:58]
Luna
You can add my personal WhatsApp. We can chat there.
- [01:02]
Denise Chan
Her picture on WhatsApp shows a pretty, smiling woman who looks very approachable. She sends you photos of her dog, her meals, shares tidbits about her day, asks how you're doing.
- [01:14]
Luna
Have you eaten yet? I just sat down to eat lunch.
- [01:17]
Denise Chan
You come to like Luna, to trust her. She uses a lot of emojis. She really likes the smiling one with the blushing cheeks.
- [01:26]
Luna
Good morning. Are you starting your workday? I just got to the office.
- [01:31]
Denise Chan
But you're definitely paying attention to the wrong things about Luna.
- [01:36]
Luna
You're really easy to talk to because.
- [01:38]
Denise Chan
With her, nothing about your chats are casual.
- [01:41]
Luna
I'm so happy we're co workers.
- [01:44]
Denise Chan
It's all part of a plan.
- [01:47]
Charlie
That's the time that I started calling him darling.
- [01:51]
Denise Chan
The truth is, there is no Luna.
- [01:54]
Charlie
I got all the photos on Instagram.
- [01:57]
Denise Chan
There's just a man on the other side of the world using stolen Instagram photos to make you believe Luna's real. A man armed with a fake profile and a script with exactly what to say to earn your trust. To butter you up so so that you'll eventually give him your own money. You're being fattened like a pig before the slaughter. But while your new job is going to cost you hundreds, maybe thousands of dollars, this man's job might just cost him his life.
- [02:37]
Rhea
Hotels.com knows that planning your book club's annual field trip can get chaotic. Rhea, the romance reader wants to stay in Prince Charming's cast. Self improvement. Steve needs a hotel gym. Leila and Jeff, the horror fans ghosted the group chat about budget. And you've read enough True Crime to know that murdering them isn't a real option with the Hotels.com app. Invite all your friends to collaborate and find the perfect hotel together. Share properties, vote on your favorites, and book all in one place. Find your perfect somewhere with hotels.com.
- [03:11]
Denise Chan
From Wondery I'm Denise Chan and this is Scam. One of my first jobs right out of college was doing sales and man, it was stressful. I had to cold call hundreds of strangers a week to pitch them something they'd never heard of before. And there was the added pressure of closing the sale because part of my pay was from commission. No quota, no pay. I had to learn quick. Luckily, the formula to selling is actually quite simple. You start by casting a wide net. It's a numbers game. The goal is just to tell as many people as possible about your offer and see what bites. After you get the right person on the phone and deliver your memorized pitch, you hit the next stage. Objection. Handling. You'll get some variation of the question. Is this product too good to be true? What's the catch? Is it worth the money? Now here is where the very good salespeople rise above the others. How you address those concerns will determine whether the person on the other line will choose to trust you. If they trust you, you've already closed the sale. And that's the formula. You pitch, you handle objections and you make promises earnestly. Which isn't unlike the formula to scamming. A scam artist does all those same things, but the difference, and it's a big one, is that those earnest promises are false. But it makes you think. If you can turn a regular person like me into a salesperson with a little bit of training and a script, couldn't you just as easily turn them into a scam artist? Most people don't want a scam, but what if they didn't have a choice? This is Episode one Shoot to Kill. It was a beautiful, warm Sunday and the atmosphere was atmosphering. It was only November, but the Christmas spirit was in full force. At a mall in metropolitan Manila in the Philippines, cheerful shoppers took pictures in front of a gigantic orange Christmas tree sculpture. A woman in her late 30s with buzzed hair and sunglasses walked past the tree. She stepped into an upscale, modern Filipino restaurant.
- [06:10]
Max
It's a fancy place, alright.
- [06:12]
Denise Chan
She looked sharp. She was dressed in a men's white T shirt tucked into gray slacks. And she was here to learn more about a job.
- [06:20]
Max
It's just going to be like a simple launch, like meet and create and we have a chance to talk and ask questions for this employer.
- [06:29]
Denise Chan
I'm going to call her Charlie. It's not her real name. Like almost everyone in this story, their names have been changed for reasons that will become obvious. Anyway, Charlie and her girlfriend were here with Charlie's youngest brother, Max, because he was very interested in a new job opportunity abroad.
- [06:46]
Max
I was like, okay, can I join? Because I was very curious, what's going on, what he's into.
- [06:53]
Denise Chan
Max was in his late 20s now with young kids of his own. But to Charlie, he was still her kid brother.
- [06:59]
Max
I am the eldest. I am always the one who take care of everything because my parents are already old. They always say ate, because when you say the word ate, that's what we call the older sister. So everyone's like, ate, can you help me on this? Ate, can you help me on that? So I am really eager to know everything.
- [07:18]
Denise Chan
Charlie knew that Max was worried about money. He was making about $250 a month giving rides to people in their family van. But after the pandemic, business had fallen off and nowadays the rising price of gas meant when Max did get a booking, sometimes he wouldn't even make a profit off it. So Charlie understood why Max was interested in this job in Thailand. He'd said it was some sort of online casino gig. And more importantly, it paid about $1,000 per month.
- [07:47]
Max
He just wanted to have a good future for his kids.
- [07:51]
Denise Chan
Charlie had never heard of this company, but she knew working outside of the country could be sketchy.
- [07:57]
Max
I wanted to make sure first that they will be going in a legitimate company.
- [08:03]
Denise Chan
As Max and the group made small talk, Charlie kept her eye on the entrance.
- [08:08]
Max
So I was looking at, who is this guy? Who's this guy? So I was like, maybe this guy, maybe this one, maybe not. I was expecting someone like in a business casual attire because he's an employer.
- [08:21]
Denise Chan
But the man who walked in wasn't that.
- [08:24]
Max
He was somewhere in late 30s, not very tall guy, curly hair. He was wearing shorts, T shirts, like a body bag. They call it a body bag.
- [08:34]
Denise Chan
Body bag, like a fanny pack and then slippers. The guy with the fanny pack and slippers sat down. He looked Chinese.
- [08:44]
Max
His first words were, why did you not order it? And then he started calling the waiter and then distributing the menus to the people. And then he said, order what you want to eat and I will pay for it. He was like very generous.
- [08:57]
Denise Chan
The man introduced himself. We'll call him Dev. Dev was friendly, chill, even.
- [09:03]
Max
You will not feel intimidated at him. Even though he is like the quote unquote employer, he was cool. He sounds so nice.
- [09:12]
Denise Chan
Dev got down to business. He reiterated the basics of the job. Thailand online casino. Thousand dollars a month.
- [09:20]
Max
And he just said that everything will be for free.
- [09:23]
Denise Chan
Accommodations and food would be provided and that they'd be staying at a job campus that had everything they needed. Workers wouldn't even have to leave. As the others around the table piled pieces of pork and fish onto their plates, Charlie kept focused on Dev, asking question after question.
- [09:41]
Max
The thing is, this is going to be about my brother. That's why I kept on asking questions.
- [09:47]
Denise Chan
She asked Dev about visas, work permits, and how they get employees out of the country. She asked whether they were licensed and even the logistics of travel.
- [09:56]
Max
He was very, very, very friendly. Like he was ready to tell everything or answer every damn question that I throw at him.
- [10:05]
Denise Chan
And when Charlie asked Dove about whether it was actually Safe, he said 100% safe.
- [10:10]
Max
He looks very sincere. He's talking like eye to eye. He's having an eye to eye contact.
- [10:15]
Denise Chan
After that lunch, Dev even offered Charlie a free, free plane ticket to go see for herself. She flew to Bangkok and traveled to the place where Max would be working. After three days checking things out, she felt reassured. She flew home and told Max the place was cool. If he wanted to take the job, it seemed safe to do so because.
- [10:36]
Max
I already have an idea. If shit happen, I know where to find you.
- [10:45]
Denise Chan
A week later, Max sat in the back of an SUV on his way to his new job. He had finally landed in Bangkok. He was 1400 miles away from home, with the South China Sea between him and his family for the next year. But his journey was only just getting started. Beside him sat a woman who was also from the Philippines heading to the same area.
- [11:09]
Charlie
I think she was 23 or 24 years old.
- [11:14]
Denise Chan
Max, as you'll hear, is a pretty matter of fact kind of guy. He doesn't elaborate much on details. Max just isn't a man of many words. And so he sat largely in silence in the back of the suv. The driver turned onto the highway and Max looked out his window, watching the crowded cityscape outside. Colorful billboards with Thai advertisements hung in front of buildings. Street vendors lined the sidewalk. Motorbikes darted between cars. An hour passed, then another. They had left the city far behind, and now all Max could see were trees and the occasional gas station and roadside vendor. They tried to ask the driver where they were going, how much longer it would take, but the driver just responded with no English and kept driving. How far was this campus exactly? The sun had set, and beside him, his travel companion looked antsy. The Driver had turned off the big highway and now they were driving up a mountain.
- [12:22]
Charlie
The place is so dark and the driver drives so fast.
- [12:27]
Denise Chan
The car swayed from side to side as the driver zigzagged on the windy road. The two of them held onto whatever they could grab to steady themselves. Outside, Max could see they were surrounded by trees in the middle of a forest. He looked at his phone. It had been five hours since they'd started driving. There was no cell service.
- [12:51]
Charlie
We don't have any signal.
- [12:54]
Denise Chan
Max is companion was getting worried and he tried to comfort her. He told her, don't worry. I'm here just to make her feel better. But even Max was getting a little anxious. At 11pm that night, seven hours after they left the airport, the driver turned down an unmarked road and slowed to a stop in front of a hotel. As the two of them got out of the car, it was eerily dark and quiet outside. A wooden sign with the name of the hotel in Thai was nestled between two trees. Other than a few houses on the road, it was mostly farmland.
- [13:33]
Charlie
A guy told us, just rest for now.
- [13:36]
Denise Chan
Someone told them, go inside and rest. They'd continue in the morning. Wait. They still weren't there. Max and the woman stepped into their hotel and slept for just a couple hours. By 5am the next morning, they were back on the road. 25 to 30 minutes of drive, 25 to 30 minutes of off road driving. The whole car shook as it sped along an unpaved path. When the car parked, Max and the women were met by some local men. They gestured to follow them. They walked down a dirt path covered in shrubs to the edge of a muddy river. A small metal boat that could fit maybe five people waited for them at the shore. This was the way to the office. Max and his companion were told to climb in and keep quiet. Neither of them knew what was going on, but they obeyed. A couple minutes later, the boat made its way to the other side. The local men told them to grab their luggage and help them to climb a steep hill up from the riverbank. As soon as they got to the top of the hill, that's when they saw the men with guns wearing military uniform. The men in military uniforms told them to get into their pickup truck. Another 20 minutes later, the truck drove down an unmarked road alongside a tall cement wall with barbed wire at the top. It looked like a prison. The car slowed down when it reached a gate. Men wearing sarongs with guns slung over their shoulders stood by a hut manning the entrance. They waved the car through. Max Peered out the window. Suddenly the large patches of farmland were gone. Rows of tall buildings with manicured bushes and trees surrounded him. Expensive German cars were parked right on the street. It was like he'd entered a mini pop up city. Lines of Chinese restaurants, boutique shops selling clothing, stores selling electronic gadgets, Basketball courts, a hospital, grocery store, bars, even a casino. His driver dropped him off and a guide came to greet him. The guide brought him to the store to purchase a mattress and pillow. Then they walked over to the employee canteen to get him sorted with a meal card. After the quick tour, Max's guide brought him back to a block of identical four story buildings. The rows of boxers, T shirts and pants hanging off each balcony were a dead giveaway that these were the dorms. His guide showed Max to his room and said he'd be back to bring him to the office at 5pm when his shift started. Max took a look around. He could see a balcony and four bunk beds. It looked decent. Max walked over to his bed and set his things down quietly. His new roommates were asleep even though it was the middle of the day. Like Max, they were working the night shift. He'd meet them later. For now he was glad to finally rest after the long journey here. At 5pm Max walked into his new office. It was huge. Hundreds of people were sitting in rows and rows of desks typing away on computers and smartphones. It looked like a typical call center. Max's team leader took him over to his team section. Max counted 14 co workers staring blankly at their screens.
- [17:22]
Charlie
But they are so busy they cannot chit chat.
- [17:25]
Denise Chan
They were all too busy working to talk. It was awkward, like how first days at work usually are. Max sat down at his new desk and was given some training materials. He was told to read the script. There would be a test. Max did what he was told, watching his co workers screens so he could follow what they were doing. But he was starting to get confused. The training material had nothing to do with online gambling. He looked around. No one had a slot machine or blackjack or anything that looked like gambling on their screens. And the script on his screen was all about recruiting people for a new part time gig. They were offering people jobs to review hotels. Finally, one of his co workers looked up from their screen.
- [18:15]
Charlie
I asked them what they are doing actually.
- [18:19]
Denise Chan
Max told her that his sister had toured this company before. He was supposed to be working for an online gambling company. He asked his co worker, where's the gambling?
- [18:30]
Charlie
She told me that I think this is different company.
- [18:33]
Denise Chan
How could this be? He then asked his co worker what exactly were they doing.
- [18:38]
Charlie
Then she told me, our job will be a scammer.
- [18:43]
Denise Chan
Our job will be a scammer. Max went up to his team leader. He told him this couldn't be right. This wasn't what he had signed up for. His team leader told him this was his job now and he should be careful because if he tried to escape this place and someone caught him, it's.
- [19:04]
Charlie
A shoot to kill order.
- [19:05]
Denise Chan
It's a shoot to kill order. I'm Denise Chan, host of Scam Factory and I have a brand new vintage of podcast for you. Fresh off the grapevine. Blood Vines is a full bodied podcast that uncorks the never before told story of the Licciardi family, one of the most powerful wine dynasties in California's history. Jack Licciardi was the patriarch of one of the country's biggest grape suppliers for America's most popular wine, white Zinfandel. But things turned sour when the government began to investigate the business for multimillion dollar wine grape fraud. The case spilled over into a bloody battle for succession, for the family business that almost brought down the entire industry and ended in murder. If you loved succession, then Blood Vines is the series for you. Grab a glass of your favorite wine and dive into a story that has notes of fraud and betrayal capped off with a big murder. Listen to Blood Vines exclusively on Wondery. Join Wondery in the Wondery app, Apple podcasts, or Spotify. Charlie was working away in her office, which was really a room on the first floor of her family's home in the Philippines. The room had WI fi and clean white walls, perfect for Charlie to snap photos of thrifted clothes and post them to her online shop. It was the middle of the night, which was normal for her. She was a night owl.
- [20:42]
Max
The items that I'm selling there are used clothes, so I have to make them look nice on the pictures.
- [20:49]
Denise Chan
As she hung the wrinkled shirts on hangers and tried to smooth them out, her phone buzzed. It was Max.
- [20:55]
Max
He messaged me that this is wrong.
- [20:59]
Denise Chan
Max told her about the scamming.
- [21:01]
Max
Max confirmed that it was not the job that they promised us. It was different. I was like, oh shit.
- [21:08]
Denise Chan
And it wasn't just the job that was different.
- [21:10]
Max
He asked the guy, how about the pay? The guy answered, what did he told you? They said $1,000. The guy laughed at him, like really hard. And then he said, you really got scammed. It's only $300. So I was like, fuck, where the.
- [21:28]
Denise Chan
Hell did she just Send her brother.
- [21:30]
Max
I asked him to describe me the place, so he described the gate and the area. He sent some clips of the buildings. This is not the place that I went. This is not the place that I visited.
- [21:42]
Denise Chan
She took a deep breath.
- [21:44]
Max
I tried to calm down. As soon as I panic, I cannot think properly anymore. So I made a strong decision that calm down, calm down. We will figure out everything.
- [21:55]
Denise Chan
Once she got her own emotions in check, she texted Max back.
- [21:59]
Max
I told him just to relax. So I just asked him to play along. Just calm down. Play along, play along, she told me.
- [22:06]
Charlie
Okay, listen, what they want you to do, for now, just don't complain.
- [22:12]
Denise Chan
Don't complain because Max was not in a safe place. Whatever they asked him to do, just do it for now. She would figure it out. But Charlie would soon find out. It was even worse than she thought. Max wasn't in Thailand. He was actually in Myanmar. That little river with the little boat was a border. The men with sarongs and rifles, they were Burmese, not Thai. Fuck.
- [22:45]
Max
There's no law in that place.
- [22:48]
Denise Chan
Myanmar was in the middle of a violent civil war. Some areas were controlled by the military, other areas were controlled by different rebel groups. And some areas were completely, completely lawless. No government, no law enforcement, no one to help you, no one can get in there.
- [23:08]
Max
It's like if they killed him, we will not be able to find his body. If they do something bad to him, I don't think we can get him alive.
- [23:22]
Denise Chan
Max stood outside the office and took another drag of his cigarette. They were only allowed a few minutes a day to get outside for some fresh air, so he savored it, even if it was hot and sticky. As he stared off into space, grateful for a break, he saw someone approaching him with a giant smile spread across her face.
- [23:43]
Charlie
She's very excited.
- [23:44]
Denise Chan
Her eyes twinkled from beneath a pair of clear framed glasses and her short blonde hair bounced around her face. She introduced herself as Jane and asked to bum a cigarette.
- [23:55]
Charlie
She's so happy. Oh, at last I can smoke Marlboro blue.
- [23:59]
Denise Chan
At last, a Marlboro blue. She grabbed a smoke and explained that she arrived at the compound a few days earlier. Like Max, she was from the Philippines and she was promised the moon, $1,000.
- [24:13]
Jane
And free accommodation, free food, free of everything.
- [24:18]
Denise Chan
Jane was told she'd be working for Amazon. Of course, Jane soon learned her recruiters did not work for Amazon, and nor did she. She'd be scamming.
- [24:29]
Jane
I refuse. I refuse to do it. And that is the time that really threatened me. Just Stay here and work. Remember, we control this land. We can kill anyone here.
- [24:41]
Denise Chan
Jane didn't feel like she had much of a choice.
- [24:43]
Jane
I do not want to make my family worried. My plan is just to work to finish the contract and leave that place.
- [24:52]
Denise Chan
After that day, the two spent a lot of time together. Since they worked for the same company, their shift would start in the evening, which would be morning time for their customers over in the UK. They would wake up at 3pm, have breakfast, then head upstairs to their office. First stop their boss's desk where they dropped off their phones.
- [25:14]
Jane
That is the time the boss will check our phones. They're going to check if we are doing something bad or something inappropriate. They are checking if we are trying to contact people outside.
- [25:27]
Denise Chan
Max learned very quickly that whatever he sent to Charlie, he had to delete immediately. They were constantly being monitored.
- [25:35]
Jane
There is a 24.7ccTVs in all the corners of the floor.
- [25:40]
Denise Chan
Under the watchful eye of security cameras, the two of them sat down at their desks and pulled up their scripts. A word doc with line after line of text messages and screenshots of sample conversations. The work was pretty self explanatory. Pick up one of their many work iPhones, start chatting and don't go off script. It would always start off the same. Jane reached out with her opening line to some random person in the uk.
- [26:07]
Jane
Hi Celine, we would like to inform you that you passed the initial assessment.
- [26:13]
Denise Chan
If I were say one of Jane's targets in the uk, I'd get a message out of the blue. Not from Jane, but from one of her characters.
- [26:22]
Jane
Actually, most of our characters are females. The name of my character is Shina Lucas.
- [26:28]
Denise Chan
Shaina would introduce herself as the HR manager for a hotel company on the search for part time remote workers. I would then naturally ask her how she got my contact information.
- [26:39]
Jane
Your contact was provided by the Robot Health recruitment agency. So every time the customer asked question, we already have answers.
- [26:46]
Denise Chan
Oh, a recruiting agency recommended me. Honestly, I'm flattered. Tell me more. What's the job? What's the pay?
- [26:54]
Jane
In just one to two hours, you might earn 200 to $300.
- [27:00]
Denise Chan
A couple hundred dollars for a few hours of work? That sounds sweet. Shayna would explain that all I'd have to do was rate and review hotels and earn commission for each review. Easy. I'd go through a quick one hour training. Then Shayna would show me how to set up an account for my earnings. A crypto account that would link directly to my personal bank account. Then she would start Assigning me hotels to review. But after working through a dozen or so reviews, racking up commissions, my earnings would suddenly drop. I would freak out because what the fuck happened to all my commissions? Why do I now see a negative number in my account?
- [27:43]
Jane
Actually, that is what you call a bonus.
- [27:46]
Denise Chan
A bonus. And Shayna would tell me, oh, no, don't worry, this is a good thing. You can make even more money by. By booking hotels too.
- [27:55]
Jane
The hotel that you book is giving big commission, giving 5 to 10% commission.
- [28:02]
Denise Chan
The hotel is willing to pay a big commission if I complete the booking because it makes the online reviews more legitimate.
- [28:09]
Jane
So all you need to do is, for the meantime, you need to deposit this amount.
- [28:16]
Denise Chan
Shayna tells me to just pay the negative amount displayed on the screen with my own money.
- [28:22]
Jane
That is one of the hardest part, because I know most of the people will not believe it. The trick is, how are you going to convince the customer on putting money? How are you going to approach the customer to make them believe that everything there is true?
- [28:36]
Denise Chan
At this point, I have doubts. I've never heard of something like this. So I'd ask Shayna, are you sure I need to put my own money in? Are you sure I'll get my money back?
- [28:49]
Jane
My approach, I do not want to convince the customer. I'm just saying. I'm just telling the customer, okay, if you do not want to do it, just leave it.
- [28:57]
Denise Chan
Wait, wait, wait, wait. If I don't do it, what would happen to all the money I'd already earned? I've already raided a dozen hotels.
- [29:04]
Jane
If you don't want to continue, so you just leave it there.
- [29:08]
Denise Chan
She's like, pay for the hotel booking, don't pay for the hotel booking. It's up to you. But, hey, you'd be leaving money on the table if you quit now. Ugh, I'm conflicted. I don't want to lose the money I made raiding these hotels. That's my money. I did the work. I asked Shayna again, are you sure I'm going to make the money back?
- [29:30]
Jane
That is a time. That's a catch. That's a time that you're going to tell the customer that, of course, once you complete the reservation in your account, you might earn $150, $200. I assure you that I am giving you my full assurance.
- [29:43]
Denise Chan
With Shayna's full assurance, I decide to go for it. I complete the booking, and just like Shayna said, I get that extra 10% commission and I can transfer that money to my bank account, like, right away.
- [29:57]
Jane
And of course, the customer will be happy. And you're going to be happy also. You're going to congratulate the customer. If you're going to do this every day, you return money.
- [30:05]
Denise Chan
That worked out. Shayna pulled through. The next day, I'd start work again, leaving those reviews while sitting on the couch. But after a few more reviews, that negative number would appear again. I'd be told I have to pay for another booking, only this time, it was even more expensive. I'd ask Shayna, wait, if I deposit this higher amount for this new booking, would that mean I'd get a higher commission?
- [30:34]
Jane
Of course. All the money that you're going to deposit here will be doubled once you withdraw.
- [30:39]
Denise Chan
By this point, I trust Shayna. If she says, do it, I do it. And eventually, I'd see the negative number again. But now it's so high, I can't pay it with my own money. I tell Shayna, I don't know what to do. I don't have enough money to unlock my earnings.
- [30:57]
Jane
We are going to make the customer feel that you are there to help him anytime he wants. How much do you have there?
- [31:05]
Denise Chan
Say, I need $500, but I can only afford to pay $300.
- [31:09]
Jane
Okay, can you deposit your $300? And I promise that I will help you to clear the other 200.
- [31:16]
Denise Chan
Wow. Shayna was offering to help me pay the deposit out of her own pocket just so I could unlock my earnings.
- [31:25]
Jane
The customer will be happy. The customer will think that you are there to help, that he will be able to get his money back.
- [31:33]
Denise Chan
But that would never happen. Eventually, when any of Jane's customers tried to get their money out, they couldn't.
- [31:42]
Jane
We call it killing. That is the killing day of the customer.
- [31:47]
Denise Chan
The killing day. See, Jane was trained to build trust with her customers, to encourage them to add more and more money. It was all by design, like pigs before the slaughter. She would fatten them up until the customer had no more money to give, until it was time for the kill.
- [32:08]
Jane
Of course I'm not proud. I feel embarrassed myself.
- [32:13]
Denise Chan
Especially when Jane had customers who really trusted her. Sometimes for months.
- [32:19]
Jane
I feel so sad to her because she keeps on finding money. She borrowed money from her friends, from her roommates, from her boss, just to invest, because she believes that she will be able to get all the money that she invested, telling me, at the end of the month, I'm gonna get my salary and I'm gonna deposit again. Please wait for me and help and guide me.
- [32:45]
Denise Chan
And even though Jane wanted So badly to tip her. Customers off.
- [32:49]
Jane
Our desktop are all monitored by our boss and leaders. I cannot reply. I cannot respond to her, that I feel so sorry. Also that I scammed her. If the boss or the leader will see it, my God, I'm going to receive a big punishment.
- [33:08]
Denise Chan
But there'd be punishment, too, if she didn't scam every day.
- [33:12]
Jane
We have $25,000 target. 25,000 divided to 13 people. Every agent should have at least $2,000 every day. Our leader keeps on pressuring us, you need to find sales. You need to get sales. You need to work hard. You need to double your work. Sometimes you are working 14, 15, or 16 hours a day.
- [33:33]
Denise Chan
If they're still not meeting quota.
- [33:35]
Jane
The first punishment is you're not allowed to eat in the whole day. Second punishment is you need to pay. And after that is the time that you're going to receive physical punishment.
- [33:47]
Denise Chan
A physical punishment, like a beating. So Jane just tried her best. Seven days a week with maybe one day of rest a month.
- [33:57]
Jane
I'm scared and sad because I need to do this job, because I do not have options.
- [34:04]
Denise Chan
Jane did what she needed to, but she was also pretty good at all of this. And she brought in more and more money. 10, 20, $30,000.
- [34:15]
Jane
The biggest sales that I contributed to the company is $50,000 in one month.
- [34:20]
Denise Chan
Max, on the other hand, scraped by hitting just the minimum to avoid punishment.
- [34:25]
Charlie
I don't have the luck to get that big customer.
- [34:28]
Denise Chan
His biggest scam was about $12,000. But even as they slowly got used to it, the guilt weighed on them. Max would spend his time between shifts trying to get his mind off the job, drink a beer or two, call his girlfriend, try to erase his day. He didn't want to do any of this, but to survive, he had to do what they told him. And all he could do was hope that Charlie would find a way to get him out soon.
- [34:59]
Charlie
I always tell her that I want to grow out of this place. Help me to get out of this place.
- [35:06]
Denise Chan
Help me get out of this place. But Charlie was already 10 steps ahead of him. From the moment she'd heard Max was in trouble, she knew she was responsible.
- [35:19]
Max
I screwed up. Why did I allow him to go there? I was blaming myself. It's me who created the mess.
- [35:27]
Denise Chan
Charlie had created this mess, and she knew she had to find a way to clean it up.
- [35:34]
Max
So I have to do everything, whatever it takes, I just have to get him out of that place.
- [35:42]
Denise Chan
Factories were created for peak optimization to scale the output of our labor to its maximum and beyond. We've gone from working alone to working in small groups to mega factories of workers laboring day and night to build or package or assemble an incredible volume of product amounts that just a generation or two ago would have been unthinkable. And in a similar way, scamming has also transformed from a single scam artist targeting small groups to something much bigger in scale. Now there are scam factories whose output is astronomical, whose revenue rivals some of the biggest companies on the planet. And these factories are built on the backs of regular people. Regular people who have been armed with a script, a formula that teaches them to persuade others into terrible situations. Regular people who get pretty good at scamming because the formula works. Because human beings are by and large wired to give trust and to earn trust. And once they have someone's trust, they can do almost anything. And they will, in order to survive until they can find a way out of this hell. This season on Scam Factory.
- [37:13]
Max
I'm scared. My hand is trembling.
- [37:16]
Jane
They are beating us, hitting us with everything. He think we are just bluffing.
- [37:20]
Denise Chan
We are serious.
- [37:21]
Max
I was like, fuck it, you're all fake.
- [37:23]
Jane
If you don't want to cooperate with.
- [37:25]
Denise Chan
Me, I will be forced to investigate you.
- [37:28]
Max
I need be smart. I will be playing chess with the devil. He told me that it was killing him. Day by day. We just have to play his game. I messaged my family that this will be my last message. He told me that, do you think that you are so powerful that you can get these people out? He can do anything he wants to me. Just give me back my two brothers.
- [37:57]
Denise Chan
Follow Scam Factory on the Wondery app, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey@wondery.com survey if you have a tip about a story you think we should investigate, please write to us@wondery.com Tips from Wondery this is episode one of six of Scam Factory, a story about a brother, his sister, and the big business of lies. Scam Factory is written, reported and hosted by me, Denise Chan. Our story editor is Lou Okowski. Senior producer is Claire Chambers. Associate producer is Evangeline Barros. Reporting by Wijitra Duang Di. Additional reporting by Jonvik Mateo. Additional production assistance from Emily Locke, Malachi Wade and Maria Dennis. Audio assistance by Daniel William Gonzalez. Sound sound design and mixing by Jamie Cooper. Sound supervisor is Marcelino Villapando Original score by Tangeline Bolton Music supervisor is Scott Velasquez. For Frison Sync Senior Managing Producer is Lata Pandya Managing Producer is Heather Baloga Senior Development Editor is Rachel B. Doyle Fact checking by Jacqueline Khaleesi Executive producers are Julia Lowery Henderson, George Lavender, Marshall Louie and Jen Sargent. Rawundary.
- [39:59]
Narrator
Are you captivated by the dark and mysterious world of true crime? Wondery offers you the ultimate true crime experience with early access to new episodes, exclusive content and a seamless ad. Free listening journey with Onery plus, you'll get access to hundreds of podcasts, including more than 50 true crime series like Dr. Death, the shocking true story of a trusted surgeon who brought unimaginable pain and suffering to his patients. This was not an operation that was performed, this was attempted murder. And there's Morbid, the hit podcast that's a light hearted nightmare. With Wondery plus you get access to exclusive bonus content too, allowing you to dive deeper into the cases you love. Like in Suspect, where an ordinary Halloween party turned into a terrifying murder mystery that left its mark on the community.
- [40:46]
Denise Chan
This case is one of those rollercoaster.
- [40:48]
Narrator
Rides where it's like, no, he did it for sure. No, he for sure he did it. Each story is crafted to keep you enthralled, revealing the complexities and motivations behind every crime. Subscribe to one Wondery on the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts or Spotify today, unlock the door to a world of true crime like never before. With Wondery. The best true crime stories are always at your fingertips.