Calling the Shots w/ Katie Nolan

Summary

Scam Goddess Podcast Episode Summary: "Calling the Shots w/ Katie Nolan"

Release Date: February 18, 2025

Introduction

In the episode titled "Calling the Shots," hosts Laci Mosley (aka Scam Goddess) and sports commentator Katie Nolan delve into the intriguing world of fraud within college football. This episode focuses on a sensational sign-stealing scandal involving a dedicated fan-turned-intern, Connor Stallions, at the University of Michigan. Through witty banter and insightful analysis, the duo explores the motivations behind such scams, their impact on sports integrity, and the broader implications for NCAA regulations.

Guest Overview

Katie Nolan, renowned for her sharp commentary on sports and culture, joins Laci Mosley to dissect the complexities of the Connor Stallions scandal. With a background that includes hosting podcasts for ESPN and winning a Sports Emmy, Katie brings a seasoned perspective to the discussion, enhancing the episode's depth and engagement.

Perspectives on Scams and Scammers

The conversation begins with Mosley and Nolan sharing their personal views on scams. Laci expresses a nuanced fascination with scammers, stating:

"I love them. I love hating them... I'm fascinated by looking at how a scam... anyone, like, comes up with the idea and decides, I'm just going to scam now." (03:40)

Katie echoes this sentiment, highlighting her intrigue with scams that "punch down," targeting greedy corporations rather than vulnerable individuals:

"There are some scammers that I do fuck with just because they were scamming up. Like, they were scamming greedy corporations... I fuck with it." (04:13)

Historic Hoodwink: The Connor Stallions Sign-Stealing Scandal

The heart of the episode centers on the story of Connor Stallions, a passionate University of Michigan Wolverines fan whose obsession led him to orchestrate a sophisticated sign-stealing operation. Beginning as an intern with aspirations to coach rather than play, Connor's dedication took a controversial turn:

"He was like deciphering signs because nobody wanted to do." (21:38)

Connor's method involved purchasing tickets under his name to attend over 30 games across 11 different Big Ten schools, sending operatives to record opposing teams' sideline signals. These collected signals were then analyzed to gain a competitive edge for Michigan's football team. The duo discusses Connor's transformation from a volunteer to a paid staffer, highlighting his creation of a vast "game day sheet" comprising over 2,000 sideline signals:

"He created a database of more than 2,000 possible sideline signals in what he called the game day sheet." (37:53)

NCAA Regulations and Institutional Response

As Michigan's football team surged to an undefeated season under suspicious circumstances, the NCAA intervened by raiding Connor's office and seizing his work computer, culminating in the scandal's exposure. The hosts critique the NCAA's stringent regulations, which forbade the use of modern headset technology for play-calling, thereby indirectly fostering environments where such scams could thrive.

"Starting in 2024, the NCAA began allowing helmet headsets for play calling, effectively eliminating sign stealing. It was known by many as the Stallions rule." (57:31)

This regulatory change, dubbed the "Stallions Rule," aimed to curb sign-stealing by modernizing communication methods, albeit much later than necessary.

Impact and Ethical Considerations

Mosley and Nolan debate the actual impact of Connor's sign-stealing on Michigan's performance. They ponder whether the alleged advantages significantly influenced game outcomes or if Michigan's success was a mere coincidence. Katie muses:

"We'Re taking out completely the talent of the football players." (58:41)

Meanwhile, Laci suggests that while the strategy might offer an edge, the fundamental execution of the game remains a testament to the players' skills:

"They do still have to execute... tackle the guy, catch the pass." (58:32)

Conclusion and Reflections

Wrapping up the episode, the hosts reflect on the paradoxical nature of sports integrity versus competitive advantage. They acknowledge the fine line between strategic ingenuity and ethical misconduct, ultimately questioning the true value and consequences of such scandals.

"It's either a coincidence or it's like a big deal and it helped them and they won." (57:49)

The episode concludes with promotional segments for upcoming content, including Katie's new podcast "Casuals" and the Scam Goddess TV show premiere on Freeform and Hulu.

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Laci Mosley (03:40): "I love hating [scammers]. I'm fascinated by how anyone comes up with the idea to scam."
• Katie Nolan (04:13): "There are some scammers that I do fuck with just because they were scamming greedy corporations."
• Laci Mosley (21:38): "He was like deciphering signs because nobody wanted to do."
• Katie Nolan (37:53): "He created a database of more than 2,000 possible sideline signals in what he called the game day sheet."
• Laci Mosley (57:31): "The NCAA was finally in 2024... we'll adopt the widely used technology... the Stallions rule."
• Katie Nolan (58:41): "We'Re taking out completely the talent of the football players."
• Laci Mosley (58:32): "They do still have to execute... tackle the guy, catch the pass."
• Katie Nolan (57:49): "It's either a coincidence or it's like a big deal and it helped them and they won."

Final Thoughts

"Calling the Shots" offers a compelling exploration of the intersections between sports, ethics, and fraud. Through engaging dialogue and thorough analysis, Laci Mosley and Katie Nolan provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of how obsessive dedication can morph into questionable practices, challenging the very fabric of sportsmanship and competition.

Stay Tuned

Listeners are encouraged to tune into the Scam Goddess TV show premiering on Freeform and Hulu, and to follow Katie Nolan's "Casuals" podcast for more entertaining and insightful sports discussions.

Note: All timestamps correspond to the podcast transcript provided.

Transcript

[Lacy Mosley]

Saturday, February 22, the NAACP image Awards returns for a night of Black excellence.

[Katie Nolan]

Amen.

[Lacy Mosley]

The 56 NAACP Image Awards.

[Katie Nolan]

Make some money live.

[Lacy Mosley]

Saturday, February 22nd at 87 Central on.

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[Katie Nolan]

Robbery and fraud. Scam, robbery and Frau what's Poppin congregation, it's your girl, Lacy Mosley, aka scam goddess. And we're back for another installment of the podcast, all about robbery, fraud and those who practice it. Sometimes we love them, sometimes we hate them. Also, I will remind you this is a comedy show cuz some of y'all forget. My guest today is known for her sharp commentary on sports and culture. She formerly hosted weekly podcasts for ESPN and won a sports Emmy award. Okay. For show garbage time. And has been nominated for more. I know that's right. I know that's right. This genius girl is a sports journalist and television personality. And today she's the host of Casuals, a sports podcast for everyone. I couldn't be more thrilled to welcome the sports queen Katie Nolan into the congregation today. Katie, thank you so much for being here.

[Lacy Mosley]

Lady. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here. So honored to meet you.

[Katie Nolan]

Same. And also, this is such a perfect episode for you because you are a sports queen. An Emmy. Sports queen.

[Lacy Mosley]

Like yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, important to note about the sports Emmy. I point this out all the time. It is the same size as like a regular Emmy. It's not like smaller or anything. So it's basically.

[Katie Nolan]

I know that's right. She said, no, it's an Emmy. It's an Emmy.

[Lacy Mosley]

No doubt about it. It is. It is regulation size.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah. Because people be trying to play, they'd be like, oh well, it's a daytime Emmy. Or it's a this.

[Lacy Mosley]

No, it was a local Emmy. Emmy It's Emmy. Yeah.

[Katie Nolan]

Period.

[Lacy Mosley]

Do you have an Emmy period? Yep.

[Katie Nolan]

Exactly. Yes. I love it. So I do have to ask you, Katie, what is your relationship with scams? Do you love them? Do you hate them?

[Lacy Mosley]

I love them. I love hating them. I. I feel very passionately about scams and scammers. I think they're, you know, especially depending on who they're scamming. I think they're, like, the lowest of the low. A lot of the times it's like, preying on vulnerable people who, you know, I'm thinking of, like, Belle Gibson is the first one who comes to mind, like, scamming people by telling them that you're dying and actually you're not, and you're turning that into a. But I'm fascinated by them. And I think. I like to think it's because I am not capable of doing that myself. So I'm just kind of fascinated by looking at how, like, a scam. How anybody, like, comes up with the idea and decides, I'm going to. I'm just going to scam now. And the fact that they think that just, like, repercussions will never come. I envy that part the most. I wish I had the ability to.

[Katie Nolan]

Just, like, I don't want no repercussions.

[Lacy Mosley]

I just. I wish I had the ability to just do and never go, like, well, what would happen if I did this? Like, I wish I had that. And I feel like scammers have that in an abundance. And so I'm always fascinated by them just going, yeah, I'm going to do it, and. And no one's ever gonna catch me. It's always, you know, fascinating to watch that downfall.

[Katie Nolan]

I mean, that's generally how I feel as well. There are some scammers that I do fuck with just because they were scamming up. Like, they were scamming greedy corporations, people who are already thieving from us. Like, I'm like, okay, I fuck with it.

[Lacy Mosley]

But that, yes, exactly. That is important.

[Katie Nolan]

If it's a scam that, like you said, is punching down, I'm absolutely on the same wave. But they are interesting and I do wanna know what they do and, like, if I could get away. But as I said on Good Morning America, I am not a criminal. Which was very weird to start a conversation with Michael Strahan telling him I'm not a criminal.

[Lacy Mosley]

He does need to know, though. You have to tell him. You just gotta say, listen, Michael, don't get the wrong impression I'm interested in them. I am not one of Them.

[Katie Nolan]

I'm not one of them. And I do have to bring up y'all scam goddess. The television show is still airing Wednesdays on Freeform and Thursday on Hulu. So get into it. I love that y'all have been watching it. Spread the gospel. Let the girls know we've been trending on Hulu, so, you know, like, let's keep it up. But yeah, that's me shamelessly plugging in the middle of the show.

[Lacy Mosley]

But to your podcast, that's what it's for. Absolutely.

[Katie Nolan]

But then they get the visuals. Like be people were mad at Beyonce for not getting no visuals. I'm like, I'm giving you the visuals. I didn't say you are the visuals. Okay, but so your relationship with scams is more like you like to on look and see what's going on. It's like a voyeur.

[Lacy Mosley]

I like to hear like a picked apart story about a scam. Like how it came to be, how they pulled it off and then what happened when they got found out. Like, that is my perfect type of content. I like to hear about it and try to like, put myself in their shoes and be like, well, how did you even. And then I just like to watch the message that it creates.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah, I feel like that's like, it always reminds me of Cinemax. And I've said this before. Like, you know, they used to have like skin a Max after dark and they would have like TV shows like Sex Court and it would be like, oh, the judge is calling the lawyer into the chambers and then they start doing fake sex. But then this, the stenographer comes up to the window and she's watching like, ooh, O. And I'm like, I'm the stenographer. I'm watching like, O. That's how I watch Scams. I'm like, O.

[Lacy Mosley]

Like, like I'm interested and they're doing it and I don't. But I'm not. And I just.

[Katie Nolan]

I'm not gonna join.

[Lacy Mosley]

Right, right, right, right. And I was just doing my job. I was just here to do my job. But if this is happening, I'll come take a peek at it, see what's up. Right.

[Katie Nolan]

I wait till y'all finish. I gotta drop off the, you know.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Katie Nolan]

These reports, but. So let's get into the historic hoodwink because you are a sports expert.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah, well, you know, I like sports. I like sports. And I hate when people call me an expert. Only because this isn't your fault. Sports is so like, who Won the World series then in 1952, and you're like, I don't know. I don't know and I don't care. I like sports a normal amount. So, like, I'm. I'm into it. I like the culture of it. I. I'm not. I'm not, like, I would still say expert.

[Katie Nolan]

I feel like being an almanac makes you, like, an expert. Like, okay, you remembered a bunch of facts. Ooh, look at you, girl.

[Lacy Mosley]

In the sports world, it is, like, it's very important to them for whatever effing reason. But you're right. To a non sports audience. Fine. Sports expert. Makes sense. Sure. I wear that with pride. And shoulders back.

[Katie Nolan]

Yes. Come on. That's. That's your scam.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah, exactly. Oh, wait, wait, wait.

[Katie Nolan]

Before we get into the historic hoodwink, I have to ask you, what is your opinion on LeBron dropping out of the All Star game? Like, like two hours before. Dude, was that a scam?

[Lacy Mosley]

I mean, kind of. The NBA All Star Game needs to figure it out. It's so boring. And especially this year, we saw LeBron drop out, but also, like, a couple of, like, big players in the skills competition figured out that if you read the rules, like, to the letter of the law, you could just, like, not shoot the ball and win. And so they were just like, not even participating in the thing. They're literally there to do. So, I mean, the LeBron thing, look, we're seeing more and more, like, players don't want to participate in these events. And like, on one hand, I get it. On one hand, I'm like, you know, pay me if I'm going to be play. Like, give me a. Make it worth my time.

[Katie Nolan]

Right? Because also, you're risking injury. And if you're in the season, it's.

[Lacy Mosley]

Like, yeah, yeah, and I get it. But it's also like, well, then we need to use the, like, the players union that we have and the collective bargaining that they do with the league to, like, okay, let's talk about changing the All Star Game then. Because if, like, you. And also, maybe you could have told us, like, two days before. Maybe you could have let people just, like, adjust to the fact you weren't gonna be doing.

[Katie Nolan]

I have a theory.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah, what's that?

[Katie Nolan]

I have a theory that he told Adam Silver, like, I'm not gonna play. Like, I'm not gonna do it. And then Adam was like, okay, but don't tell nobody, because we gotta get these ticket sales and we need the girls to come. We need the girls to pull up.

[Lacy Mosley]

A very, very good theory.

[Katie Nolan]

Okay. So then it's like two hours before. Whatever. You'd be like, oh, my leg. Like, SpongeBob. Like, my leg.

[Lacy Mosley]

I think I'm sick.

[Katie Nolan]

Right. And then everybody's already there. So it's, you know.

[Lacy Mosley]

Right.

[Katie Nolan]

What's the difference?

[Lacy Mosley]

Cancel it. Nobody can be mad. We must go on with the show.

[Katie Nolan]

Right?

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah, it's a good. That's a pretty good theory.

[Katie Nolan]

And wasn't it changed, like, the format this year and it was like, young versus old or something?

[Lacy Mosley]

I think they did. I think they do a rising stars game that's like that, but maybe not. I don't. I didn't watch it. I didn't care.

[Katie Nolan]

I didn't watch it.

[Lacy Mosley]

Any NBA All Star game. I'm like, who cares? It's not interesting. I love it because, girl, after the.

[Katie Nolan]

After the All Star game, when I was younger, like, we would go to the club, the Curb, and all the NBA players would be there, all the celebrities would be there, and then we'd be sneaking in because we were not nobody. But I remember, like, we were in black dresses, and we pretended we were bottle service. And that's how we got into VIP at the 4040 club. And I was with Beyonce and Jay Z and all and all the sports players. And I was like, yes. Yeah, it was a good scam.

[Lacy Mosley]

And now it's.

[Katie Nolan]

But now it's like, nobody cares. And I didn't even know it was happening.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah. The dunk contest, I think, was where it all started to go wrong when they stopped, like, people stopped wanting to participate in the dunk contest because they didn't want to be embarrassed. They didn't want to, like, put themselves out there and not be able to perform. So then now, basically, the dunk contest is a bunch of guys you've never heard of who barely play in the league, but they love to dunk. They're like dunk specialists. And so you're just like, okay, dunk specialists.

[Katie Nolan]

We had to bring in the specialists to do the dunk.

[Lacy Mosley]

It's weird. It's weird. They need to fix it. And sports media will spend the next four days arguing about how to fix. It's a very exciting week for sports talent.

[Katie Nolan]

It is. Also. They need to bring it back because it was a hoochie holiday.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah.

[Katie Nolan]

Like, the hoochies would be out trying to get a baller. Like, it was. It was a big spectacle. People were everywhere. Yeah. It used to be, like, fun. So I hope they get that fixed because it was enjoyable.

[Lacy Mosley]

Bring it back. Make All Star Weekend great again. While we're supposedly doing that to things.

[Katie Nolan]

Right. Do it for the hoochies. Yes.

[Lacy Mosley]

If not, if for nothing else, because.

[Katie Nolan]

I know Fashion Nova was probably hit really hard by this.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah, they're really.

[Katie Nolan]

Nobody was buying dresses.

[Lacy Mosley]

This is a Fashion Nova recession. They really planned for a lot more purchasing around this time of year.

[Katie Nolan]

Right. You know, they sent out their all star game text and the girls were not responding. So, you know, do it. Do it for the hoochies. Do it for Fashion Nova. Do it for the economy. Yes, please. The bottle service economy down, down bad. Okay. I had to get that off my chest before.

[Lacy Mosley]

I'm so glad. No, I'm actually really glad we got that out there.

[Katie Nolan]

Yes.

[Lacy Mosley]

Saturday, February 22, the NAACP image Awards returns for a night of black excellence.

[Katie Nolan]

Amen.

[Lacy Mosley]

The 56th NAACP Image Awards live Saturday, February 22nd at 8, 7 Central on BET.

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[Katie Nolan]

So let's get into historic hoodwings. This is where I'll regale Katie with a famous Connor caper. Group of criminals we don't know yet. Maybe we love them, maybe we hate them. We'll see along the way. But this was in 2023. The University of Michigan's football team was undefeated, having one of their best seasons of all time. Until a low level staffer named Connor Stallions. I like that last name, Stallion. Maybe I'm saying it wrong. Stallone Stallions.

[Lacy Mosley]

No, it's. I think it was Stallions.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah, Stallions. Oh, yeah. I have a pronunciation here. Okay, we right. Remember that? Different, y'all. I got it right the first time. So until this low level staffer, Connor Stallions bootleg video cheating scandal almost brought all of college football to a standstill. Let's see. Because I'm curious, like bootleg video. What. What were you doing?

[Lacy Mosley]

Could be anything, right? It's gonna be the least interesting version of what you're picturing I promise.

[Katie Nolan]

So no one's ever been more obsessed with College football than 29 year old Connor Stallions. Yes, that's his real name. Connor was born obsessed with college football, specifically the University of Michigan Wolverines. His parents had both gone to Michigan and taught him to worship their football players and to hate their rivals, Ohio State, with a burning passion. This was his religion. They were like, we worship Michigan, Amen. And Ohio State is the devil and we rebuke them.

[Lacy Mosley]

I mean, yeah, much more common than you would think. This is the religion of many families, I believe, across the United States. College football, Yes.

[Katie Nolan]

I was watching this show on Netflix that was like, about old people love. And like they had like people in there, like 70s, like going on dates and stuff. I gotta remember the name of it, Jess. If you could Google this, it's like Netflix. I hope it's just called People Love Love. But they were like going out on dates this year and there was a woman on there who was obsessed with. God damn it. What university was it? I wanna say Auburn. But she was obsessed with this university, right? And the men that she was dating, she was like, they have to like this university. Like. Cause like, this is my religion. And like, she was not kidding, like at all.

[Lacy Mosley]

I respect it. Especially in an old woman where you're like, oh, this hasn't been a. Probably a very kind landscape to you for a long time, sports. So I'm glad you have like a devotion religiously to a teenager when you're older.

[Katie Nolan]

I'm like, you got. What are your.

[Lacy Mosley]

I know.

[Katie Nolan]

I'm already giving up on deal breakers that I had. You know, like, I used to be like, I don't like club guys now. I'm like, okay, if you go to the club like two times a month, that's.

[Lacy Mosley]

Two times a week is fine. Yeah, Yeah.

[Katie Nolan]

I used to be like, I don't like women with tiny tattoos because they always crazy. And now I'm like, maybe a little crazy would be fine in my life. Like I'm already making, you know, downgrades. And she was like, no, I'm not gonna accept it. Like she stopped dating one guy.

[Lacy Mosley]

It was a non negotiable. She's like, absolutely not. She has. She's like, you can be short, you can be ugly, but you have to love Auburn or whatever. And I, you know, she was like.

[Katie Nolan]

I will die alone. Like, don't, don't play with me, okay? I will be at the football game dead, honey. Okay? That's where I want to die. It's called the later daters. Thank you, Jess.

[Lacy Mosley]

Later daters.

[Katie Nolan]

Later daters. Okay.

[Lacy Mosley]

I think old people love was better if I'm honest, but, you know, whatever.

[Katie Nolan]

I feel like old people love is rude. Later daters is, like, cute, sure, but.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah, but it's, like, cute in a condescending way. We're like, later daters. I'm out of time. I'm running out of time, and I want to be loved. Maybe we could call this Please love me before I go.

[Katie Nolan]

Like, One foot in the grave, One foot on a date.

[Lacy Mosley]

Okay, perfect.

[Katie Nolan]

Love that for them. Back to Connor. Connor didn't dream of playing for Michigan. He dreamt of coaching the team. So at age 7, he dressed as a Michigan head coach. Bo Schembecher. Schembechler. There we go. Bo Schemblacker. Y'all got some names for Halloween. So he dressed as, like, a coach for Halloween. And let's look at this guy. He's giving coach energy. Like, he looks like a football coach. He's got the.

[Lacy Mosley]

He certainly doesn't look like a football player, I'll tell you that.

[Katie Nolan]

No, he's got the beard that's, you know, doing. Trying his best. That's a 20, 25 beard if I've ever seen one. Like, we're just all trying our best.

[Lacy Mosley]

It's just. It's, like, half here, and it lets you know that it had the idea to show up, but it doesn't show up fully in a way that he can even really do anything with it.

[Katie Nolan]

So it's like a side boob.

[Lacy Mosley]

It's, like, in bikinis with, like, the under boob. Now, like, that's all I'm getting of the. Oh, my God, look at him. As a coach for Halloween, I kind of respect anybody, and, like, respect has a little asterisk next to it. But if you're a kid and instead of dreaming for the obvious thing to do with football, which is I'm gonna play it to just, like, kind of know yourself so well that early, and go like, well, I'm not gonna play it, but I could coach it, probably. That probably saved him a lot of time in his life to just kind of cut that step out and go straight to the dorkier side of sports.

[Katie Nolan]

And this is a cute Halloween costume with the Michigan hat and the big headphones. I'm into it. I like it.

[Lacy Mosley]

And easy. If you're a parent, that's easy to pull off. Put the kid in a sweatshirt and pants and just put a headset on his head. Boom. There's Your costume.

[Katie Nolan]

Take him out to the neighborhood. Let em. Trick or treat. It's over.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah. Put a little name tag on em so people stop asking.

[Katie Nolan]

Done right? And they probably gonna love it. Cause they love the hat. But I feel like. I feel like he was in one little league game and he got hit, and he was like, you know what? I am a coach.

[Lacy Mosley]

You know what? That's bench does seem more my speed. Perhaps I'll spend my time there.

[Katie Nolan]

I can't wait for somebody to pour Gatorade on me when we win. Like. Yeah, I love that.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah. Like the way a player dreams of lifting up a trophy. He dreams of being drenched.

[Katie Nolan]

He dreams of being drenched.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah.

[Katie Nolan]

He's at home, like, pouring Gatorade on.

[Lacy Mosley]

Himself in the shower, and you're like, what are you doing?

[Katie Nolan]

I'm getting ready for my future, Mom.

[Lacy Mosley]

I'm practicing.

[Katie Nolan]

I got to make sure I don't get it in my eyes.

[Lacy Mosley]

That's true.

[Katie Nolan]

So Connor enrolled in the Naval academy at age 18, not because he wanted to serve in the Navy, but because he noticed that most great college football coaches had served in the military.

[Lacy Mosley]

I mean, that's wild.

[Katie Nolan]

Wow.

[Lacy Mosley]

That is an insane level of dedication to wanting to be a coach. To find out that they mostly all served and then be like, well, I'll just go to Navy, and I won't actually. I mean, I'd be nervous that I'd end up, like, in the Navy, right.

[Katie Nolan]

Having to. Like having to do water war. I don't. I don't want tough to be a.

[Lacy Mosley]

Coach if you die in a water war.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah. I don't want to be. I don't want to be doing that, but shout out to doll who served, but I'm a coward.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yes, you exist so that we can live, and we appreciate that so much. I just think it's kind of like borderline stolen valor to join the Navy just in service of becoming a football coach. It's like, well, no, you should have to join the Navy.

[Katie Nolan]

I mean, he did join, so he does.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah. Okay.

[Katie Nolan]

The intentions. Everybody has different intentions, right, when they join. Some people want to get their school paid for. Some people, you know, want to get out of poverty. You know, everybody's got a different reason for joining. So he joined the military. Right. He walked into the Navy football coach's office and asked what he could do to help the team as an unpaid volunteer. So, Katie, you were right.

[Lacy Mosley]

Oh, my God.

[Katie Nolan]

Like, he's supposed to be in his whites. He's supposed to be at Fleet Week, and he already Walking into the coach's office like, hey, y'all, I'll be an unpaid intern.

[Lacy Mosley]

Let me do extra credit for the football team for free, right?

[Katie Nolan]

According to Connor, the staff suggested he tried deciphering opposing team signals since they didn't have anyone doing that already. Connor said, in a nutshell, hell yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

Now here is the birth of the scam, right? We're seeing now the. We're laying the foundation.

[Katie Nolan]

We are beautiful. Because he was supposed to be doing water war, and he. And he didn't somehow figured out to be an intern in the football.

[Lacy Mosley]

They said, listen, kid, listen, kid. Do this thing that nobody wants to do. You can go do this. And he was like, I'm going to do this the best anyone has ever done this before. And that's going to explain a lot. Spoiler alert.

[Katie Nolan]

So signs from the sidelines. In college football, coaches decide what the offense is going to do for the next play and have to let players know what they've decided. We have to break down sports because, you know. No, of course, sometimes the girls.

[Lacy Mosley]

Anybody? No, listen, I'm not judging you. This is actually important to know in general.

[Katie Nolan]

So are they gonna run the ball? Are they gonna throw it, and if so, to whom? Things of that nature, right? So for a long time, they did this by messenger service, sending substitute players in from the sidelines who would announce the play to the offense. Huddle on the field. So that feels like a good scam in itself. Like, I don't have to play in the game, but I. I get paid to just run in and be like, 22, 41x.

[Lacy Mosley]

Like, yeah, we'd be good at that. Put us on. Put us in, coach. Let us run in and go, okay, gals, here's what we're running. Here's the plan.

[Katie Nolan]

We're doing X's, we're doing O's.

[Lacy Mosley]

That's right.

[Katie Nolan]

All right, y'all got it. All right, bye.

[Lacy Mosley]

It's like, I'm gonna go get the orange slices. When you guys come off the field, come see me. I have the orange slices.

[Katie Nolan]

But around 1990, most teams stopped using a huddle. There's no secret meeting on the field anymore. So coaches have to signal blue 42 from the sidelines using signals that look like sign language but are all made up. So everybody's making up their own code on the side and, you know, doing. Doing the dance. Like, if I do the Cupid Shuffle, we gonna run it, okay? If y'all see me doing the daddy, that means we don't throw it to Brian.

[Lacy Mosley]

Like they have these, they have these big signs that have like four quarters to them and then they have these big pictures and it looks ridiculous. When you're watching a college football game, you're like, what is that? What is any of, what's that chart trying to show me? But they know what it means because in the NFL when you watch a game like the. They can talk directly into the headset helmet of the quarterback. Yeah. So through those headsets they'll be like, they'll do this exact thing. But they don't have that in college. So they have to like use like cue cards. They have to like draw it out and hold them up.

[Katie Nolan]

It's like snl.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yes, exactly, exactly. And then when all the colleges stopped running, like, they started doing no huddle offenses because the game was moving so fast that it was like almost detrimental to them to even have a huddle because they, it was. Teams were using that to their advantage and running no huddle. Then everybody got rid of the huddle, which then made that person who used to run out there useless. And now it's all basically visual on the sidelines.

[Katie Nolan]

Destroyed his job. I hate that for him. He showed up one day stealing jobs.

[Lacy Mosley]

From people, from hard working people.

[Katie Nolan]

He showed up one day, read run. And they were like, we don't need you anymore, John. I'm sorry.

[Lacy Mosley]

Can you imagine the look on his face and his shoulders droop and he's like, right, okay.

[Katie Nolan]

Because he could say that he was on the team. Technically he was on the team.

[Lacy Mosley]

Right. If Connor was in the navy, this kid was on the team.

[Katie Nolan]

Exactly. They're one one in the same. So there can be up to eight people on the sidelines sending these signals at the same time. Some of them are doing fake ones. One called the live signaler, doing the real ones. Here's for, for confused looking guys doing it. We have an example video because I'm. I guess it's like they're holding up the play signs, but then some of them are holding up fake signs so that people can't catch on to what the play is. Okay. Which makes sense if you're running, like if you're watching other people's footage and then you're like, oh, we're starting to figure out what the play is with the sign. So, okay, so we're going to watch this video because I need help.

[Lacy Mosley]

And then they'll have a formation guy, maybe a play guy, maybe one person's doing everything. It all depends on what their synchronicity is and how they're signaling those plays in now. These short play calls, so stupid.

[Katie Nolan]

So it's like they have one real guy for the game, and then they have three other fake guys.

[Lacy Mosley]

It's basically like smoke and mirrors to try to get you to think. It's basically a deterrent to reading signs. It's like, look, if you don't, you might do it wrong. You might be actually listening to one of our fake signalers. So I think the entire purpose is to basically be like, look, it could be any one of these guys. Don't even bother. Let's just play football, okay?

[Katie Nolan]

And their signal was like. They were, like, rubbing their hand across their chest. Like they were scratching their chest. I'm like, okay. I think doing the Cupid Shuffle would be better.

[Lacy Mosley]

I agree. I do agree. I think that, like, if we're gonna make them more complicated, we might as well use some, you know, like, dance vocabulary we're familiar with.

[Katie Nolan]

If I crank that Soulja Boy, we're going for the field.

[Lacy Mosley]

I don't know. Look back at that video and look at what those guys look like. And do you think any of these Alvin and the Chipmunks are gonna crank that Soulja Boy? I don't know. I'm not saying anything. I'm just saying.

[Katie Nolan]

Also, I don't understand how this is gonna be confusing to people because three people are doing the same sign, and then the one in the blue is doing something different.

[Lacy Mosley]

That's true. Well, it's possible that the one in the blue is doing something different and it's to distract from the fact that they're all doing that. I don't know. I just feel like the. It's such a silly part of college football where it's like, we have to go through to these great lengths to make sure that nobody will know the play. What we're. I mean, look at these guys. They look like cheerleaders.

[Katie Nolan]

They really do look like cheerleaders. They have them in, like. They do look like Alfin in the Chipmunks. They have them in these sweatshirts and matching hats, and they're all in different colors. It's very funny.

[Lacy Mosley]

Very, very funny.

[Katie Nolan]

Very unserious. Love that. For them.

[Lacy Mosley]

Look like an M M's commercial.

[Katie Nolan]

They really do. They even have the sexy green one.

[Lacy Mosley]

The green one whose pants are a little tighter than maybe you want them to be.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah, he giving a little hoochie moment so players on the field can look over and see these signs. And so can fans, passersby, and the staff of the opposing team. If they try to deciphering your opponent's signal is called sign stealing. And it's not illegal to do it with the naked eye. That's what Connor started out doing for the Navy team. Right.

[Lacy Mosley]

So he would be on the sidelines looking at the signs and signals being sent by the other team and in real time trying to decide like, okay, when they hold up, up a picture of Tweety Bird, that's them saying that they're gonna. It's a designed run for the quarterback or something. They're basically. He's like, in real time with no assistance from video or like old footage. He's just going like, oh, it looks like every time that sign is up, they're running this play.

[Katie Nolan]

That's.

[Lacy Mosley]

That was his. Basically his free job that he did.

[Katie Nolan]

And when he started at the Navy and immediately decided not to do the water war, that was his internship. Right. He was like deciphering signs because nobody wanted to do.

[Lacy Mosley]

Right. Because it's not really necessary. Like, it. It's an edge if you can do it. Right. But like we said, they have all these guys that are basically red herrings giving their signals. And if you do it wrong and then you're playing based off of, well, you said he was gonna run the ball and they threw it, it could actually really hurt you. So you have to do it perfectly in order to do it well. And so it would make sense to me that they're like, yeah, if we got an extra body, have him try to do it. But if he doesn't do it, we'll just fire him from a non position we weren't paying him for anyway.

[Katie Nolan]

We'll let him go from working for free.

[Lacy Mosley]

Go try this. Go play with this and see what you figure out.

[Katie Nolan]

So as a side note, this only even happened in college football because they're not allowed to use headsets in their helmets like you mentioned before, like the NFL and they're not allowed to coach two player audio technology. I don't know what that means.

[Lacy Mosley]

I think it just means they're not allowed to have the coach directly communicate to the player via audio technology.

[Katie Nolan]

Okay.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah, I should probably know why that is, but I don't.

[Katie Nolan]

Well, we're gonna know now.

[Lacy Mosley]

Let's find. Oh, good. Perfect. Oh, great.

[Katie Nolan]

The ncaa, which famously cares deeply about equability and fairness. Yes, of course, as they don't pay their players, wants to protect the college programs that might not be able to afford a fancy Bluetooth headset. So they had outlawed them.

[Lacy Mosley]

Sure. Which made sense like ten Years ago, but probably doesn't make sense now when it's very, very easy technology to procure.

[Katie Nolan]

And it's also. Most schools are raking it in from their athletic programs.

[Lacy Mosley]

Right. And like, oh, would it kill you NCAA to provide for the schools that the few schools that can't.

[Katie Nolan]

No, we gotta provide all the money. They're the Mr. Burns of college football. They're not giving you nothing. So traveling to games other than your own games in order to steal an opponent's signs is also illegal, according to the ncss. Again, protecting those little football programs that wouldn't be able to afford sign stealing. Scouts traveling all over the conference so you couldn't pull up to another game that you're not involved in. And they just watch the signs?

[Lacy Mosley]

Yes. Yeah. So you can't, like, do homework and go watch the team you're gonna play next week and go, well, if I can't record them, maybe I can do it live with my eyes a week early against somebody else. And of course, you're running the risk that they might change their signs between then and. But these are college kids who have a lot of stuff to do, so I bet they're not changing them that much. So they basically made it so that you can't forward scout. You can't, like, go look at your opponent before your opponent comes to play you and steal their signs that way. Which must have been devastating for Khan.

[Katie Nolan]

Right. Because he's like, that's what I do. I'm. I'm a spy for the Navy.

[Lacy Mosley]

Let me go look.

[Katie Nolan]

Come on.

[Lacy Mosley]

In the, in the least cool, least like, relevant to actual Navy affairs way possible. He's like a governor. He's like a military spy that's not at all involved in the military, just doing it for their football team. Exactly.

[Katie Nolan]

I love and I hope there was a moment where they were like, hey, Connor, we. We got a battleship and we gotta. We gotta sink the battleship. And he was like, I can't go. I gotta scout for these games. This is what I'm doing for my country.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yes, but the picture of Sylvester the cat, I cannot crack what that means. And I've really gotta get to the bottom of that. So I can't come on this excursion to take out pirates in the ocean or whatever, you know, whatever the Navy does.

[Katie Nolan]

So. It's also illegal in college football to use electronic equipment to record opposing team signs at your own game. Like you said, you got to do it with the eyeball. The NCAA hates electronic equipment almost as much as it hates paying college Athletes for the work they do on the field.

[Lacy Mosley]

Burn. Absolutely burned. Roasted.

[Katie Nolan]

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[Katie Nolan]

The volunteer in 2018, Connor was serving in the Marines stationed in California. Okay, okay, but. But his Michigan football obs session was as strong as ever. He volunteered to sign steel for Michigan football using his Navy discipline and experience. So he flew from California to Detroit on the weekends on his own dime.

[Lacy Mosley]

Oh, my God.

[Katie Nolan]

He was like a weirdly obsessed volunteer. But I mean, he's been loving this since he was 7. And he would go to games and watch opposing team signs, putting his house on the Airbnb, like, so maybe that's how he could afford it because he was like, I'll Airbnb my house and then I'll Go to Detroit. So around the same time, Michigan football was on the rocks. Their beloved coach, Jim Harba, couldn't figure out how to beat their nemesis, Ohio State. They kept losing, losing and losing that most important game every year. So in 2021, Connor transitioned out of the Marines and was promoted from intern to permanent staffer with an actual salary. Just, it was low salary, but they, they started paying him because he was good. He was getting paid now to be a signal decipherer for Michigan football. His dream was starting to come true. Now, I thought you wanted to be a coach, but I guess sign like signal stealing is, is that the pathway?

[Lacy Mosley]

Like coach? I guess you could, you know, in, in like pro football, a lot of times you'll see a kid who was a ball boy when he was younger with a team because he like only got that through a connection. Then when he gets older, becomes a coach. So there are like, like non traditional pathways to get. Like once you're in the door, it's kind of like, you know, you, you can make it happen if you move the right way and align with the right people. I guess you could see a world where you go from being the signal stealing guy to being the head coach or a coordinator, which is basically a coach. So like, I, I, I guess it could be a pathway. I don't off the top of my head know if anyone's ever taken that specific pathway, but I feel like when you're obsessed with a football team the way that Connor is and you have no interest in actually playing, right, you're basically just like, well, then let me get in the door and then prove myself to be so useful that they just can't be without me. And so far in this journey that you're telling us about, it sounds like he's gone from being like a guy who did it for free for the Navy to a guy who did it for free for his favorite team. And then to the point where they were like, okay, we'll pay you. It's not gonna be a lot, but he's already moving up. So he's like, this is my key. This is my ticket in. This is my meal ticket. I'll just get, I'll be the best guy at stealing signs that there ever was.

[Katie Nolan]

I'll be in the hall of Fame.

[Lacy Mosley]

For, yeah, that separate hall of Fame for not the athletes, not the coaches, but the guys under the coaches who.

[Katie Nolan]

Help them do just random dudes who did stuff well.

[Lacy Mosley]

Right.

[Katie Nolan]

So he created a database of more than 2,000 possible sideline signals in what he called the game day sheet.

[Lacy Mosley]

Okay. Could have been. Could have had a better name for that. I feel like. Yeah, it's like your big. It's like a Bible, and you're just going to name it the game day sheet.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah, the Signal Bible. But, you know, he was just like, the Game day sheet.

[Lacy Mosley]

Like, he's like, look, it's paper and it's got words on it for game day.

[Katie Nolan]

That same season, Michigan started playing. Well, suddenly in 2021, they beat Ohio State. And in 2022, they won the Big Ten Conference and beat Ohio State again. Connor got the game ball for their victory against Iowa that season. So.

[Lacy Mosley]

Wow, look at that. What an honor.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah. And it's got his name on it and everything.

[Lacy Mosley]

I mean, listen, picture Conor the way that you've been picturing him, right? Imagine getting from the team the game ball. An indication that you were the guy who, like, did this for us. You're the reason we won 2714 against Iowa. You deserve this one ball that we have to give to anybody. We're giving it to you. This kid must be over the. I don't know what I can say on this podcast, but he is going in his pants.

[Katie Nolan]

That's what I thought. I was like, he probably immediately, absolutely.

[Lacy Mosley]

Went home and took care of some tension.

[Katie Nolan]

I think it happened when they handed it to him. He was like, yes.

[Lacy Mosley]

He's like, oh, my God, it's everything I ever wanted.

[Katie Nolan]

Like, also, the NCAA being cheap again. This man helped y'all get the teams back together, make all this money. And then y'all were like, okay, we gotta do something for him. Y'all call the Monogram people and have him put. Put his name on a ball. That's all we're gonna do. Not a raise.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah. No, no, no, no, no. Not pay. No. Just something that he'll like, and it will mean a lot to him and will cost us nothing.

[Katie Nolan]

Yes. So in 2023, this is the new season. It looked like Michigan could go all the way to win the national championship for the first time in more than 20 years. In mid October, they were rocking an undefeated season when suddenly the NCAA raided Connor's office and seized his work computer, triggering a scandal that would taint Michigan's legacy for the foreseeable future. So the NCAA was like. Like, y'all winning too much, and y'all gave this random man the game ball. What's going on?

[Lacy Mosley]

It is funny, though, when you hear of, like, his office got raided and they took his hard drive.

[Katie Nolan]

You're like, and why is the NCAA trying to act like the f. To be in the eye?

[Lacy Mosley]

Like, yeah, I don't know. I do not know.

[Katie Nolan]

A raid.

[Lacy Mosley]

I do not know. Pretty crazy.

[Katie Nolan]

Like they kicked down his door.

[Lacy Mosley]

And my first thought when I heard that report in 2023 was not like, oh, I bet he's on a part of a sign stealing scandal. I was like, oh, what have on Batman's hard drive?

[Katie Nolan]

Right?

[Lacy Mosley]

What are we about to. And it was. It wasn't the bad. The really bad thing that I thought it was. It was this funnier bad thing.

[Katie Nolan]

What was the really bad thing you thought it was?

[Lacy Mosley]

Child porn. Whenever I hear that somebody take. Raids somebody's house and takes their hard drive, I'm like, oh, geez Louise.

[Katie Nolan]

That's typically what it is, right?

[Lacy Mosley]

Cuz you're like Jared from Subway. What do you mean they took his hard drive? And then you find out that, you.

[Katie Nolan]

Know, it's something else.

[Lacy Mosley]

It was creepy. Really bad. Really bad guy.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah, usually. Usually, yeah. So according to the ncaa, Connor had purchased Tick in his own name for more than 30 games over three years at 11 different Big Ten schools. He sent operatives to the games to record the signline signalers, to send him footage which he would like, decode it. Right. So some of the operatives were friends or associates, and some were other military veterans. It was an organized espionage operation. Now this sounds like somebody snitched.

[Lacy Mosley]

It had to be, right? Because where would they have even gotten the idea that that was what was happening? I mean, honestly, I don't mean to keep harping on how, like almost. I don't want to say pathetic, because that feels really mean, but like, this guy bought his own tickets. Like, he knew they weren't. They couldn't send him to these games because it wasn't allowed. So out of his own pocket in a job that's already not really paying him that much, he's. He went and did it on his own.

[Katie Nolan]

He couldn't use a pseudonym, like for the names. Like you buying too many tickets for all the Big Ten games. Yeah, somebody snitched though. I just feel like somebody had to.

[Lacy Mosley]

They had to. They had to.

[Katie Nolan]

So Connor says this wasn't illegal because he wasn't going himself in person to scout the games. And he claims he bought the tickets for friends out of friendliness, and they sent him the sideline footage out of friendliness, as friends do.

[Lacy Mosley]

Oh, oh. Of. Oh. Oh, my bad. I. I forgot that you were gonna invoke your. The friend defense. What. What is that? Oh, we Went. Cause I bought. I mean, I bought the tickets.

[Katie Nolan]

I'm leave the friend.

[Lacy Mosley]

If it's like, I bought the tickets because they're my friends. Okay. I could see that being like, no, I just wanted to send conveniently one friend to every single game. It just. I just happen out that way. Fine. But if you're gonna say that they sent it to you out of friendliness, that's.

[Katie Nolan]

They just had stuff that was illegal out of friendliness.

[Lacy Mosley]

I mean, at least. At least tell these friends of yours to make it look like they're filming something else. Like, make it look like your creepy friends were filming, like, the cheerleading team. And in the background, they just happen.

[Katie Nolan]

To be the signs.

[Lacy Mosley]

But don't be like, they sent you straight up videos of the sideline. And then you're like, well, they're my friends. What the hell is.

[Katie Nolan]

And then, like, zoomed in on the.

[Lacy Mosley]

Signals, like, bro, there's like arrows. They're like, connor, look. Right here. Right here is what you asked me to get footage of as a friend.

[Katie Nolan]

As a friend.

[Lacy Mosley]

As a friend, though. Just as a friend.

[Katie Nolan]

So Connor was first suspended with pay, then resigned from his job at Michigan with three games left in the season, he was trying to throw himself on the sword and save coach Jim Harburg from blame, preserving Michigan's untainted season. So he was like, I love Michigan so much that I'm not even gonna stay on my paid leave. I'm just gonna be like, it was me. It was all me.

[Lacy Mosley]

I mean, this kid is built to sacrifice himself for what he perceives to be the greater good. I mean, I can't picture a more loyal soldier.

[Katie Nolan]

It's very Christlike for Michigan State. You know, that's his religion. He was like, I'll get on the cross for Michigan State.

[Lacy Mosley]

By the way, Lacy, I don't think you were looking at the screen when your producer showed us Jim Harbaugh. So I just do think.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah, can we bring him back up?

[Lacy Mosley]

Oh, there you go. Oh, that's the coach he fell on his sword for.

[Katie Nolan]

And look at him. Okay, look, this. This sweater is fire. I would wear that. And he's got the.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah, that is nice.

[Katie Nolan]

He's got the whistle in his mouth. All, like, aggressive, like. I don't know. It's. It's given. Like, this is very important, and I don't think sports are that important, but a lot of people do.

[Lacy Mosley]

Shirt tucked into his khakis, too. He's a. He's quite a character.

[Katie Nolan]

That's hard.

[Lacy Mosley]

I think his brother his brother John's also a coach, the Ravens. He coaches the Ravens in the NFL. But they. I think it was Jim who once said he doesn't eat chicken because it's a nervous bird.

[Katie Nolan]

He's not nervous. Look at him.

[Lacy Mosley]

I mean, what a weird. What a weird guy. Just in general, felt important to note for your listeners.

[Katie Nolan]

Tucking a sweatshirt into your khaki's is wild, though.

[Lacy Mosley]

It's something else. It's certainly a statement, what it says. I'll leave that up to a listener, but it says something.

[Katie Nolan]

But even though Connor threw himself on the sword on the cross, it was too late. It was tainted. At their next game, the opponents were so scared of the scandalous sign stealing school, they didn't use signals at all. They used old timey messenger services running plays out to the field. So there was no way the signs could be stolen. They lost 49 to 0 anyway.

[Lacy Mosley]

Dang.

[Katie Nolan]

So Michigan was still whooping ass. Yeah, but everybody's scared now. They're like, we can't use signs.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah, you could say that's proof that they didn't need the sign stealing. Which people did say, I just like the job creation, Bringing that job back, getting those messengers back out there, sending the messages to your huddle. I love that we missed those guys. They lost their job and now they're back.

[Katie Nolan]

I love have like a messenger getting a call that was like, laid off. And they're like, hey, hey, Tom, actually, we need you back. And Tom's like, I'll be there. Oh, my God. I'm back, baby. I'm back. Like, your industry completely went out of business. And they were like, actually, we're back. I love that. So evidence emerged that Connor may have gone in disguise to a Central Michigan game months earlier, pretending to be a coach on another team, which would definitely be illegal. And also comically overboard. His genius disguise of wearing sunglasses at night didn't exactly work. Oh, my God.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah, there's your picture. There's a photo for you.

[Katie Nolan]

Okay, first of all, how did he get on the sidelines?

[Lacy Mosley]

I think he had a friend. Again, I don't know a lot of friends for this guy, but I think he had a friend maybe at that school that he called in a favor with.

[Katie Nolan]

I don't know, Connor, I feel like you should have added like a fake beard or like some type of prosthetic.

[Lacy Mosley]

Just draw on the rest of your beard and make it that way. We'll know it's not you because that person can fully grow facial.

[Katie Nolan]

Go as Mrs. Doubtfire for the NCAA, you know, like, really commit.

[Lacy Mosley]

The sunglasses are giant. Like, they are not really incognito sunglasses. Those things are huge.

[Katie Nolan]

He was like, I gotta have sunglasses that cover my whole face, whole face. He really thought he was low key. And he's kind of keeping his head tucked down. Yeah, that's wild.

[Lacy Mosley]

Almost a bad look for our military that a man trained to be in our military thought this was sufficient undercover to protect.

[Katie Nolan]

Well, you know, he wasn't ever really doing military stuff. He was just doing football stuff for the Navy. Did he graduate?

[Lacy Mosley]

Did he go to Navy and graduate? I feel like, don't you have to do military stuff? I don't know. I'm introducing more difficulty to the story. I just feel like technically he did it right in service of football for the wrong reasons, as you'd say on a reality show, but he still did it.

[Katie Nolan]

And look, his beard kind of came in a little bit.

[Lacy Mosley]

It looks like he dipped his chin in it.

[Katie Nolan]

It looks like bathing or something. Like he put.

[Lacy Mosley]

He's got like a chin strap.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah. He was like, I have a weak ass beard. So if I do a, like a better beard and sunglasses that cover my whole face and a hat, nobody will know.

[Lacy Mosley]

They'll never know it's me.

[Katie Nolan]

So then the NCAA ups the ante, suspending coach Jim Harbaugh himself for the last two games of the season. Even though Harbaugh maintained he didn't know about Connor's crazy schemes, everybody in college football was consumed with this story. Now, Jim, I don't see a way you didn't know about the game sheet. Cause who's calling the plays, right?

[Lacy Mosley]

It's like you're either saying that you don't call the plays and therefore you don't.

[Katie Nolan]

What are you doing?

[Lacy Mosley]

What are you making all of this money to do? Or you're, I mean, I guess I think what he's saying is that there's enough separation in between that information getting to the people who it informs, who then inform Harbaugh of what he provided them. But without, I don't know, they would have to be like, masking the information to give to the coach, which I guess you could argue you could happen. It's, I guess, possible, but it just felt like this happens a lot in college football. Well, something will happen.

[Katie Nolan]

Harbaugh was like, I keep my hands clean. I never touch dope. Like, I was not.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yes.

[Katie Nolan]

He was like, if this is a rico, like I. I didn't touch it.

[Lacy Mosley]

You could check under my fingernails. No dirt.

[Katie Nolan]

Let me go.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah, but it Is like, it's your job to be in charge of the whole program. So if it was happening under your watch, you have to say that it was you, you have to fall on that. You have to take that.

[Katie Nolan]

Michigan won their. Without their head coach, too. They beat Ohio State, got to the playoffs and won the national championship. They were unstoppable, but the championship will always have an asterisk in the shape of Connor Stallions in the unofficial record.

[Lacy Mosley]

So I, like, they won, but they, they're like, everybody kind of, especially people who hate Michigan, are like, yeah, they won, but it was the year they cheated. And now if you're a Michigan fan, you're like, yeah, but they, when they didn't have their coach and when the other team didn't use their signs, we still won. Like, we were a good team. That this happened to be happening at the same time as. And so, you know, it's. People are still. That's why they say the unofficial record, it has an asterisk because it's like a lot of people are still like, I don't count that because they were clearly cheating.

[Katie Nolan]

And I feel bad for the players because they won, but everyone is going to be like, yeah, you won, but y'all were cheating. Like, right. And they weren't.

[Lacy Mosley]

They didn't know. They didn't know. I mean, maybe they could have, but the, It's a, it's a much easier thing for me to believe that they didn't know than it is that Harbaugh didn't know. Like, it's. I, I, the players were just doing what they were told, and they did do it, and they executed the plays. So it's like, yeah, I agree with you. I feel bad for the players, but not so much for the coaching staff.

[Katie Nolan]

No. But also I kind of wonder. I can't help but wonder, you know, Connor was smart. They seized his computer. But did he have game sheets? What if there was, like, physical printed Bibles that the NCAA didn't find because they only rated Connor, Right?

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah, I guess so.

[Katie Nolan]

So the coordinators could have still had them sheets or anybody still.

[Lacy Mosley]

See, now that's a woman familiar with scams and scandals that you're immediately like, well, now hold on. I see the loophole. They could still be winning off of the cheating. Yeah, I, I don't know.

[Katie Nolan]

So let's. Like you were saying, they won against all odds, didn't have their head coach, you know, didn't have Connor, allegedly. So, like, did it even matter? Some big questions remain unanswered. Like, who was paying for all these college football tickets for Connor's operatives? Was he paying out of his own small pocket or was the school pain? Football fans on message boards have suggested a bankroller named Uncle T partially funded the scheme. They fingered Tim Smith, and he was Uncle T. Like, they were saying he was the person who did it. And Uncle T was like, no, it wasn't me. Tim Smith was like, I had nothing to do with it. But in college football, people do bankroll stuff. Like, the people who are obsessed.

[Lacy Mosley]

Like, yes, the boosters, specifically. It's rich people who love a school.

[Katie Nolan]

We saw the Blind side.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah. God, that turned out to be a whole thing, right?

[Katie Nolan]

They literally stole that child.

[Lacy Mosley]

I know.

[Katie Nolan]

So that he would play for their school and then wrote a book and took all the money.

[Lacy Mosley]

And as the hero, they wrote themselves as the heroes. They were like, oh, didn't we save this young boy? And he was like, well, now wait one second.

[Katie Nolan]

No, listen here. Sandra Bullock said, we saved you and you couldn't read good. You needed us. So did coach Jim Harbach know he left Michigan to coach the Los Angeles Chargers after the championship, taking most of his coaching staff with him.

[Lacy Mosley]

So isn't that interesting?

[Katie Nolan]

He failed up.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah. I mean, they often do. But, yeah, he was like, no, we didn't do this, and I didn't know anything about it, and we just won the championship. But I'm gonna. I'm. I'm gonna go. I'm gonna head out.

[Katie Nolan]

I mean, he was coaching real well in Michigan. He turned that shit around. So it's like, if you're that good, I like that. They were like, if you. Okay, you scammed a little bit, but you are really good at your job. So, like, come on over here.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah.

[Katie Nolan]

So who is the anonymous source that tipped off the NCAA to Conor's sign stealing operation? See, I. I said earlier there had to be a snitch because how would the NCAA know? So. Hmm. Was it a shadowy Ohio State operative, like head coach Ryan Day's brother, who happens to be a private investigator?

[Lacy Mosley]

No way. That makes so much sense. Ryan Day's so funny. He looks like he. His beard is painted on. He looks like he's undercover.

[Katie Nolan]

He does.

[Lacy Mosley]

He looks like he's pretending to be somebody else.

[Katie Nolan]

Like he's pretending to be a cool coach.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah, exactly. That looks like Connor Stallions undercover to me. Connor the Stallions.

[Katie Nolan]

And it looks like he painted that on with a brush. Like. Or like he used a lot of mascara in it every day. I don't know. And then he. Does he have on blush?

[Lacy Mosley]

He could. He. He often does look like he's got some sort of contouring on the cheeks.

[Katie Nolan]

He was like, I'm a baddie. I'm. I'm a coach Hannah baddie. Now, the way that they were whooping Ohio State's ass over and over and over again when Ohio State. State had the upper hand before, I wouldn't be shocked if he was like, something is afoot.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah. That's one of the biggest rivalries in college football too. So they are. They do not like each other at all. So I could absolutely see a fan somehow digging this out. I could. I did not know he had a private investigator brother, but that sounds interesting.

[Katie Nolan]

Or did they illegally hack Conor's computer to gain access to his master spreadsheet? Does any of this even matter? Did Connor's sign stealing enterprise, like, have any effect on the outcomes of the game whatsoever? Many sports analysts think not. Connor still denies all wrongdoing. He got a defensive coordinator job at Mumford High School in Detroit, a mere 40 minute drive away from the University of Michigan. So you still got to be close to his school.

[Lacy Mosley]

I know. And I'm sure he totally just stopped being obsessed with everything Michigan. I'm sure he went back to just being a normal guy about it.

[Katie Nolan]

I doubt that. When you're that obsessed, I doubt that.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah. It's in his heart. It's in his blood.

[Katie Nolan]

The private investigator brother at Ohio State is tingling for me.

[Lacy Mosley]

I'm like, it's interesting. It's an interesting angle. And you knew you sniffed out the snitch. You were like, somebody said something.

[Katie Nolan]

Right. And these people seem to love to do espionage, like for football.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yes. But also, if you, like, if you're gonna send a spy to see the signs, why would you say you wouldn't send a spy? To see if anybody's sending a spy to see the sign. So you send your personal investigator just to see if anybody's around, and then you spy versus. Exactly.

[Katie Nolan]

And somebody is probably like, why does that man have binoculars at this football game? Why is he an all black and he has binoculars and he's like, like on the field. That'll make no sense.

[Lacy Mosley]

Oh.

[Katie Nolan]

So starting in 2024, the NCAA began allowing helmet headsets for play calling, effectively eliminating sign stealing. It was known by many as the Stallions rule. So now he's got a whole law named after him.

[Lacy Mosley]

I mean, he probably loves that. I, I do love that. The NCAA was finally in 2024, like, like, okay, we'll adopt the widely used technology that's been used for years in this sport at different levels. We'll finally. I guess this will be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

[Katie Nolan]

Yeah, we'll pay for Yalls head says God damn.

[Lacy Mosley]

Fine. Fine. The funniest thing about this scandal to me is that ultimately, like, depending on what light you look at it in, it's either like absolutely nothing and. And they got caught for doing it. Sure, they did it, but it didn't actually help their operation or it was like a big deal and it helped them and they won their. Like, it was either a crazy coincidence that they had such a great season because they were building up any. Like, it's. It's either a coincidence or it's like it completely invalidates everything that they did that was successful. So it's like a. We don't. We don't know really. Even though we know the details, we still don't really.

[Katie Nolan]

No, I mean, there is a coincidence that Connor, you know, started working at the timeline, started winning.

[Lacy Mosley]

Right. But it could be a coincidence, like.

[Katie Nolan]

We'Re taking out completely the talent of the football players.

[Lacy Mosley]

Right. Like, they do still have to. This was what the Astros said back when they got caught in baseball stealing signs is that they were like, well, you just still have to execute the thing based off of you have a little more information. Like, the Astros knew what pitch was going to be thrown, but you still do have to hit the pitch. So I think in football it would be like, you do still have to like, tackle the guy. You do still have to catch the pass. Like, the football still has to be played, but you do have an advantage that your opponent does not have, nor do they know that you have. So again, it could be absolutely nothing or it could be a huge deal, but at least we got to find out who Connor Stallions is.

[Katie Nolan]

Right. You know, I'm kind of of the mind of let people cheat, let everybody cheat, and let's see who wins, who cheats best. Right. Deflategate. That didn't work very well. They got caught.

[Lacy Mosley]

Right.

[Katie Nolan]

But.

[Lacy Mosley]

Sure did.

[Katie Nolan]

But like at Hooch, though, you could.

[Lacy Mosley]

Argue that there was no reason for that to be a scandal at all. I'm a Patriots fan, so I have to stand up for it. It's just I'm. I'm required by, by law to say that everybody used to inflate and deflate the balls, and this just happened to be a. But I'll drop it, you know.

[Katie Nolan]

No, everybody should be inflating and deflating Everybody should be having espionage and. And spies at other people's games.

[Lacy Mosley]

Like, another thing the Patriots did. You could argue that, like, it's sports. So, like, of all the places, who cares? Like, it doesn't really matter. It's just a. It's ultimately just a game. I know it's like a huge business with a lot of money moving around, but it's like, it's just a game. So go ahead. Who wants it more? Who wants to fly their guy out to 30 games? Who wants to bankroll that? If you want it, go get it.

[Katie Nolan]

The cheating makes it more exciting.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah. Yeah, I could see that.

[Katie Nolan]

Oh, man. Well, that brings us to end of a very fun episode. Katie, I'm so glad you were here to share your expertise, because I don't know if I would have been able to get through this episode without you. I was, like, very confused. I was confusion so many times.

[Lacy Mosley]

No, you did, Lacey. This was so. I. I didn't dive into this scandal when it happened, so I was happy to hear about it from you. And I learned things. So don't count yourself out. You did that.

[Katie Nolan]

Okay, I won't count myself out. Just like you're an expert. I'm not going to count myself out of.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yes.

[Katie Nolan]

Deciphering this scam. But, Connor, I'm glad that you're working and employed and you're so close to the school that you love. I'm sure you're at all the games all the time.

[Lacy Mosley]

Probably like a folk hero. They probably come up to him and are like, oh, my God, are you the Connor the Stallion?

[Katie Nolan]

Right?

[Lacy Mosley]

I'm so excited to meet you.

[Katie Nolan]

Your Stallion Law, like, you created Stallion's Law. Wow. Iconic.

[Lacy Mosley]

Iconic look.

[Katie Nolan]

He left an impact on the whole ncaa.

[Lacy Mosley]

They won't be the same without him.

[Katie Nolan]

And when he was 7 and he was dressed up as Michigan State, like, he.

[Lacy Mosley]

He really did that, ironically, with a headset on, which now ended up being his legacy. He let them use the headset.

[Katie Nolan]

A hero, kind of.

[Lacy Mosley]

You could say in certain. You could.

[Katie Nolan]

But we always ask at the end of this podcast, where would you like to be found? Anything you want to plug share?

[Lacy Mosley]

Oh, yeah. So I have a new podcast. It's called Casuals. It's. You can get it anywhere. You get your podcast audio only right now. We'll get video eventually, but audio only right now. And basically, it's like, for people who want to know what's going on in sports. Sports, but don't feel like entertained by other sports media because it tends to kind of like they talk like they're talking to people who already know. On Casuals, we're more like, it's. We're here because it's fun or funny or entertaining. You don't have to know anything. You're not going to get judged. So if you want to, like, keep up a little bit in an entertaining way with sports, it's. Casuals comes out Tuesdays and Thursdays anywhere. You get your podcast.

[Katie Nolan]

Yes. And I kind of feel like this episode is. Is like you doing casuals to me, because I didn't know any of this before, and so I got to learn a lot of things and not feel like someone was talking to me. Like, yeah, but when you run into the 50, and then I'm like, I don't. Y'all yelling at me. I don't.

[Lacy Mosley]

You're losing me. None of this is interesting. And you're screaming, and I don't care. So, yeah, no, we're.

[Katie Nolan]

Stephen A. Smith is yelling at me. I don't know what he's talking about.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yes. I mean, it's not really ever anything important, so you don't have to worry about it.

[Katie Nolan]

Oh, well, y'all, my book is still out, Scam Goddess. I mean, it'll be out forever, but you can get that wherever retailers are. Obviously. Scam Goddess, the television show is dropping on Wednesdays at Freeform and next day on Hulu. So get into that. The next two episodes are gonna be very wild. So get into it. But thank you so much for being here, Katie. This was such a good time and, you know, congregation. Y'all get out there and stay stallions. This has been an Airwolf production in association with Team Coco. Scam Goddess stars and is hosted by me, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. Our producer is Jessica Cisneros and our audio engineer is Rich Garcia. Research for the show is conducted by Kate Doyle. Stay scheming. Celebrate Black History Month with the rap and hip hop pregame station presented by Target. And celebrate black creators with the Target Black History Month collection. Because the more we come together, the more we create together. Launch rap and hip hop pre game now brought to you by Target.

[Lacy Mosley]

All set for your flight?

[Katie Nolan]

Yep. I've got everything I need. Eye mask, neck pillow, T mobile, headphones.

[Lacy Mosley]

Wait, T Mobile?

[Katie Nolan]

You bet. Free in flight. Wi Fi. 15% off all Hilton brands. I never go anywhere without T Mobile. Same goes from a water bottle, chewing gum, nail clippers.

[Lacy Mosley]

I'm gonna leave you to it.

[T-Mobile Representative]

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