Podcast Summary: Scam Goddess

Episode: "Dungeons, Dragons, and Demonic Delu-lu w/ Sarah Marshall"

Date: December 16, 2025
Host: Laci Mosley
Guest: Sarah Marshall

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the history and absurdity of the “Satanic Panic” of the 1980s, focusing especially on the moral hysteria around Dungeons & Dragons (D&D) and how it was scapegoated as a gateway to evil. Host Laci Mosley is joined by journalist, writer, and podcaster Sarah Marshall (host of "You're Wrong About" and the new series "The Devil You Know"), who unpacks the tangled web of the Satanic Panic and its lasting impact, with Mosley and Marshall bringing wit, warmth, and sharp critique to the topic.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Scam Attitudes and Personal Connections

• Laci Mosley opens by asking Sarah about her relationship to scams, establishing that sometimes what’s labeled a scam depends on who is in power.
  • [04:26] Sarah: “I love a harmless scam. And I feel like scams are called scams often by the people who write the laws.”
• They draw early connections between historical paranoia and present-day "harmless" scams, setting the tone for the episode’s blend of humor and critical thinking.

2. The Satanic Panic as a Legal Scam

• Sarah Marshall proposes the Satanic Panic as one of US legal history’s greatest scams:
  • [06:06] Sarah: “...the Satanic Panic is one of the greatest scams in American legal history because it involved basically exploiting the weaknesses in our legal system...”
• The panic exploited moral fears to create expert witnesses, phony authorities, and a cottage industry around "identifying" Satanism, even in the absence of evidence.

3. America, Branding, and Devil Fears

• Laci and Sarah reflect on branding power—how calling something “the devil” or “satanic” is more frightening and effective than more mundane descriptors:
  • [07:07] Laci: “...the word devil is just chef's kiss. It’s just scary. If we called him, like, The Boogeyman or Mr. Fire Monster, he wouldn’t be as serious to us.”

4. Political Scams & Societal Parallels

• [08:56] Laci rails against political “scams,” specifically lip service from politicians and government priorities, using humor and righteous frustration to highlight ongoing societal cons:
  • Notably, the government’s misallocation of funds and social manipulation come in for criticism.
  • Laci: “America is like your white collar dad who spends all his money on Ponzi schemes and then calls you extravagant for wanting something not on the dollar menu.” [11:02]

5. Historical Roots of Devil Scapegoating

• The hosts draw lines from the Salem Witch Trials straight through to the present, noting that Americans have always been primed to blame the “devil” for what they fear, and often target marginalized groups:
  • [17:01] Laci: “We love throwing his name out there. Right. Especially if it lets us target women or people we just don’t like for whatever reason.”

6. Dungeons & Dragons as Satanic Scapegoat

• Central Case Study: The episode’s "historic hoodwink" segment is the 1980s fear that Dungeons & Dragons was “a portal to hell.”
  • [12:39] Laci: “Nerds being something that was labeled satanic to me is very funny because these guys are literally doing make em ups.”
• Details the moral panic, bolstered by media, that D&D led to occult practices, ritual abuse, and even suicide.
• Sarah notes, “It was lucrative for a lot of people… you could become an expert after a weekend training and testify in legal cases.” [30:13]

7. The Egbert Case and Urban Legends

• Discussion of James Dallas Egbert III, the “missing student” whose disappearance was sensationally linked (incorrectly) to D&D:
  • [43:46] Laci: “Now, what kind of PI do you have that's just making up shit?... How you gonna be a detective? You just doin’ bits, bro.”
  • This incident exemplifies the media’s and public’s hunger for occult explanations rather than confronting uncomfortable social realities.
• The story inspired TV movies, including Tom Hanks’ “Mazes and Monsters” [48:11].
  • [49:19] Laci: “Tom was eating whoever that other actor... up!”

8. The Rise of “Experts” and Grief Entrepreneurs

• Focus on Patricia Pulling, whose personal tragedy (her son’s suicide) led her to crusade against D&D, founding Bothered About Dungeons & Dragons (BADD) and influencing court cases and national media:
  • [52:40] Laci: “Suing D&D game publishers makes sense to me… The high school principal. What did you think you were going to get out of it?”
  • [54:10] Sarah: “If you become an expert in Dungeons and Dragons, you’d have to play it at least once and then realize that it’s not...”
  • Lists of supposed evils in the game are lampooned.
• The American “expert system” allowed anyone to claim expertise and peddle moral panic.

9. Lasting Harms & Recovery

• False Memories and Therapy: The episode details damage from “recovered memory therapy” and rampant “expert” advice.
  • [34:34] Laci: “There is no such thing as a repressed memory. It’s just a story that’s been suggested to you enough times that you start to believe that it’s true.”
• Innocent daycare providers and parents were accused and lives derailed over baseless fears.

10. Pop Culture, Media, and Podcasting

• The hosts reflect on how talk shows (Oprah, Geraldo, Larry King) helped amplify the panic and “expert” voices.
  • [57:16] Laci: “Dr. Oz... Ayanna Van Zant... Dr. Phil... So of course Oprah Winfrey had this lady out because this is what Oprah Winfrey does.”

11. Cooling of the Panic and Podcast Takeaways

• Ultimately, scientific studies found no link between RPGs and suicide; the panic died down by the 1990s, but lesson remains about American susceptibility to moral panics.
  • [62:28] B: “But what if we stop funding these agencies and then they can stop telling us that we’re freaking out for no reason and then we can keep freaking out for no reason…”
• Podcast recommendation: “The Devil You Know” for deep dives and bonus interviews.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Sarah Marshall on the scam of Satanic Panic:
  “I think the Satanic Panic is… one of the greatest scams in American legal history…” [06:06]
• Laci Mosley, on America weaponizing religion:
  “We see everything as like, how can this be made into a weapon? We’ll figure it out, just give us...” [08:43]
• On D&D’s satanic branding:
  “Honestly, I kinda want to play Portal to Hell.” - Laci [13:11]
• On expert culture and opportunism:
  “Anyone who self-appoints themselves an expert maybe is compensating for something.” - Sarah [26:47]
• On scapegoating:
  “The devil is just a scapegoat. Like the devil made me do it, you know?” - Laci [27:37]
• On the absurdity of D&D panic:
  “She threw in every buzzword, conservative Christian media… and I mean, if only the kids were necromancing…” - Laci & Sarah [53:44]
• On grief, fame, and delulu:
  “Now all this stuff is starting to come to you. Like, it’s getting to your head, and you’re like, I want to keep this fame and popularity up. So I. I really got to just start saying anything.” - Laci [60:28]

Key Timestamps

• Satanic Panic as a scam: [06:06]
• “Devil” branding and language: [07:07]
• Political scams & government critique: [08:56]–[11:19]
• Salem Witch Trials & scapegoating women: [17:01]–[23:00]
• D&D as “portal to hell”: [12:39]–[14:00]
• James Egbert case and PI shenanigans: [43:46]–[45:00]
• Tom Hanks & “Mazes and Monsters”: [48:03]–[49:28]
• Patricia Pulling/BADD crusade: [50:53]–[56:00]
• Pop culture amplification (Oprah, etc.): [57:16]–[58:59]
• Scientific studies refute link, panic subsides: [62:28]
• Sarah plugs “The Devil You Know”: [66:07]
• Closing thoughts on community and fear: [65:46]–[68:00]

Final Thoughts

The episode is a sharp, funny, and insightful look at how America’s unique history of moral panics and grifter opportunism led to real-life harm by falsely connecting Dungeons & Dragons (and so much else) to the "devil." It highlights the dangers of scapegoating, the seduction of “expert” authority, and the way historical anxieties get recycled for new generations. Sarah and Laci’s rapport ensures the subject is always engaging, with laughter serving a critical edge.

Recommended:

• Check out Sarah Marshall’s new series “The Devil You Know” for more in-depth coverage.
• Follow both hosts for more wise, witty commentary on cons, scams, and American nonsense.

Stay schemin'... and always cut up your soda rings!