Fraud Friday: The Club Hopping Con Artist W/ Patrick Hinds & Gillian Pensavalle

Summary

Scam Goddess – “Fraud Friday: The Club Hopping Con Artist”

Guests: Patrick Hinds & Gillian Pensavalle (True Crime Obsessed)
Release Date: September 19, 2025
Host: Laci Mosley

---

Episode Overview

This energetic Fraud Friday episode of Scam Goddess brings together Laci Mosley and the hilarious duo from True Crime Obsessed, Patrick Hinds and Gillian Pensavalle. With razor-sharp wit, the group dives into stories of personal scams, warns listeners about sneaky frauds, and unpacks the rise and fall of Sean Kirkham, a notorious club scene con artist whose scams left real victims in their wake. The mix of personal anecdotes, scam breakdowns, and historic hoodwinks makes for a vivid and highly entertaining exploration of the funny, frustrating, and sometimes chilling world of cons.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Meet the Guests & Scam Confessions

[06:39]

• Laci introduces Patrick and Gillian, and the trio bond over the audience’s enthusiastic push to get True Crime Obsessed on the show.
• Gillian reveals her identity was stolen in her twenties and hilariously recounts receiving bills from children’s clothing stores.

  “I started getting all these bills in the mail from Baby Gap and the Children's Place. Now, I am not a mother by choice... And I was like, right, I'm a single 22 year old!”
  — Gillian, 06:58

• The group riffs on parental scams, kids as grifters, and the universal childhood scam of faking illness to skip school.
• Patrick admits he hasn’t been “properly” scammed—Laci jokes, “But if I'm correct, you do date men... Men are a scam.”
  — Laci, 09:06

2. Listener Letter: Dental Appointment Scam

[17:14] – “What’s Hot and Fried” Segment

• Listener “Champagne Mignonette” shares her experience of being charged double for a cleaning when the hygienist only did half her mouth and claimed more frequent appointments were needed.
• The hosts share stories of dental hijinks, “scammy” dentists, and the difference between required and upsold services.
• Helpful tip: Consider dental schools for more affordable treatment.

Memorable Moment:

“She cleaned maybe three of my top teeth and decided to call it quits. She told me I have to come back... and then they charged me two full price cleanings!”
— Laci, as Champagne, 21:41

3. Personal Scams & Tooth Tales

[21:41–26:31]

• Patrick details a gruesome emergency tooth extraction:

  “He numbed my mouth, put his foot up on the chair and ripped the tooth out... hearing all of the cracking and breaking.”
  — Patrick, 22:13

• Group laments shaming by dentists and the oddities of dental pricing and procedure.

4. Historic Hoodwink: Sean Kirkham – The Club Hopping Con Artist

[34:20] – Main Deep Dive

• Laci recounts the wild, multi-chapter con career of Sean Kirkham:
  • Raised in Canada; ran away after being outed as gay.
  • Worked club circuits in NYC and Miami, befriending—and robbing—drug dealers, partying, and eventually working with the DEA to inform on major nightlife figures.
  • Known for charming manipulations, double-crossing informants, and bizarre scams that even involved selling Madonna’s phone number ([40:07]).
  • Ultimately disgraced after scamming a nonprofit designed to memorialize missing and murdered women in British Columbia—absconding with funds and providing shoddy, almost meaningless commemorative plaques.

Quote:

“The guy lied constantly about everything. I mean, literally everything. He just did really bad things to people.”
— Frank Owen (biographer), as read by Laci, 39:35

Quote:

“What kind of hygienist would only do half of your teeth for an appointment and then ask you to come back for the other half, then charge you double the price?”
— Laci (as Champagne), 27:38

5. The Limelight and Club Kid Era

[37:14–45:47]

• Patrick and Gillian provide context on the wild 90s NYC club scene, including Peter Gation’s infamous Limelight club and the “party monster” Michael Alig, whose story involved murder.
• Laci highlights how Sean Kirkham, as an informant, became entangled in this world, and how all players—informants, cops, and criminals—conspired, backstabbed, and ultimately destroyed each other.

Quote:

“Instead of waiting to be arrested... Kirkham began an escape plan. He started recording meetings with his handlers and then contracted Gation's legal team to offer to sell them confidential details of the case...”
— Laci, 45:26

6. Plaque “Memorial” Scam – The Final Con

[50:24–56:34]

• Kirkham’s final grift: A supposed nonprofit to memorialize murdered (primarily Indigenous) women, for which he took public money, only delivering a handful of comically small, barely informative plaques.
• Emotion runs high as Laci, Patrick, and Gillian express outrage over exploiting such a sensitive issue for personal gain.

Quote:

“What he did to these people, this memorial, these indigenous people, like, that's important. The reason that we commemorate those things is not for vanity. It’s so that it doesn’t fucking happen again.”
— Laci, 56:20

---

Notable Quotes & Host Chemistry

• “Men are a scam. Now, gay men, a little less, but still.”—Laci, 09:06
• “If you’re writing checks to your sex worker, you’re also doing that wrong. Like, this is a cash business if ever there was one.”—Patrick, 60:39
• “She’s a total savage. Especially when it comes to washing her hair. That's the biggest scam..."—Patrick, about his daughter, 09:59
• “You just gonna put murder threats, like, online?”—Laci, 50:04

The hosts’ chemistry is electric—quick banter, layered jokes, playful teases, and constant riffing on each other’s stories and traumas. Their irreverence keeps the episode light even as they cover deeply dark content.

---

Important Timestamps

• 06:39 – Guest intros, scam confessions, and audience bullying jokes
• 17:14 – Listener letter: The dental cleaning scam (“What’s Hot and Fried”)
• 21:41–26:31 – Dental shaming, Patrick’s wild extraction story, DIY scam healthcare
• 34:20 – Start of “Historic Hoodwinks”: The Sean Kirkham saga
• 37:14–45:47 – NYC club kid era, Limelight & Michael Alig context
• 50:24–56:34 – The Living Stones plaque scam; exploitation of victims
• 58:11 – “Scammer of the Week”: The boyfriend bond-out scam, a modern Bonnie and Clyde
• 61:31 – Guests’ plugs, closing remarks

---

Scammer of the Week

[58:11]

• Davion Sanford, described as a repeat con artist, forged documentation to post an $80,000 bond for his boyfriend Devonte Jones’ release, after they fell in love in jail together.
• Patrick delighting: “Also, those gays were super hot. Both of them.”
• The trio gleefully dub them the “Bonnie and Clyde—no, Bill and Clyde” of the scam world and critique the sex worker check scam with incredulity.

---

Overall Tone & Takeaways

The episode blends biting humor, personal reflection, and righteous indignation. The hosts leap from the ridiculousness of small-time scams (dental cons, childhood rackets) to the sobering, true-crime gravity of Kirkham’s exploitation. Their jokes carry layered social commentary, highlighting both the absurdities and the real harm that scams can cause. Anyone looking to laugh, learn, and get righteously mad at historic fraudsters will find a goldmine here.

---

Final advice for the “con-gregation”:
Stay scheming, but never at the expense of real victims. And if you’re gonna run a scam—don’t do it at the dentist, don’t exploit a tragedy, and for the love of god, pay your sex workers in cash.

Transcript

[ExxonMobil Announcer]

What if we could reduce carbon emissions and strengthen the economy? At ExxonMobil, we believe both are possible. As a global leader in carbon capture and storage, we're empowering industries to reduce their emissions all through technologies that are creating job opportunities in America. How's that for a win win ExxonMobil. Let's deliver.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Your home should show off who you are, telling your story in every detail, meeting you where you are. Ashley has styles that balance timeless appeal and modern trends to bring your personal look home. Pairing eye catching design with features like stain resistant performance fabric, Ashley offers well crafted, affordable pieces built to stand up to real life. Plus they provide fast, reliable white glove.

[Patrick Hines]

Delivery right to your door.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Visit your local Ashley store or head to Ashley.com to find your style. What's Poppin Congregation, it's your girl, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. Welcome to an episode of Fraud Fridays where we release older episodes from the Scam Goddess vault. That's right, Fraud Fridays is where we bring back your favorite episodes from behind the Paywall. Enjoy this episode from behind the Paywall and as always, stay scheming. Fraud Scam Goddess, what is popping? Congregation? It's your girl, Lacy Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess, here with another installment of Scammer Scam Goddess, the show that celebrates robbery, fraud, boondockling, bamboozling, hoodwinking. Y' all know we love it all for the most part. Sometimes people are nasty. Guys, I'm so excited for today's guest. Oh my God. I said it. I said it before you did. Oh my God. I'm so. What? Yeah, this is a cheat sheet. Y' all got the cheat sheet now college admission version, like where everybody's cheating. Yes. Excited. I'm thrilled. I'm hype. Dare I say for these guests and you know, congregation, that's because y' all have been bullying me. Y' all have been tweeting me, texting, hello. Hey bitch, can you get these guests on that we asked for? You know, I don't know who empowered you to be this demanding. I guess it's me. But I listen to y'. All. Cause y' all are right most of the time. Guys, today we have the creators and co hosts of the True Crime Obsessed podcast, Patrick Hines and Jillian Pennsylvalli. On their show, they hilariously recap your favorite true crime documentaries. Now, Patrick is the founder of the Obsessed Network, which I know you girls are obsessed because y' all would not stop to telling me to get them on this show. Also, Jillian created the Hamilcast, a Hamilton podcast. So if you want all things in the Lin Manuel Miranda Hamilton universe, please check it out. Congregation, please welcome Patrick and Jillian to the show.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Lacy, can you. I will pay you. Can you be my alarm clock? I need this kind of energy. Thank you so much for having us.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

That's part of waking ups.

[Patrick Hines]

Watching you do this in real life is like, the greatest. It's like the best thing to happen in my day.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

You know, we, like, give people they.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Flowers when they hear. Honey, give you your eulogy while you're breathing, okay? I'm trying to go to my own funeral so I can see what's poppin. You know what I mean? Yes, yes, of course. Peeking through the casket like, yeah, it.

[Patrick Hines]

Would be the ultimate episode of Scam Goddess if you scammed everybody in your life and faked your own death.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Yes, yes. Although I have to say, I don't appreciate the bullying. We don't condone any of that. Everybody be nice. Especially to Lacey of all friendly bullies.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

They're friendly bullies for the most part.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Look, I have to tell you, my best friend Ashley is, like, beside herself that I'm here. We're all very big fans, but Ashley's like, tell her I love her. I'm a member of the congregation, so. Ashley is obsessed with you.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Hey, Ashley, look at you scamming me, getting free shout outs for your friends. Hey, Ashley, you like? Ashley also has a small business where she sells candles.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

She's school teacher.

[Patrick Hines]

I want to be a member of the congregation.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yes, yes, there is a segment. There's a segment for that. We do love. We do love our gays. But I'm so happy you guys are here. Like I was saying to y' all before we started the podcast, it was so funny because people were tweeting at us. And then I said, patrick, like, oh, I'd love for you to come on the show on Twitter. And then I felt so bad because y' all DM'd me a video and it was so cute. But I did not check my DMs like that on Twitter. Um, and guys, if you DM me on my Scam Goddess page, I will try to respond as many as I can. I try to repost over there. If you DM my personal page and I wanna respond, I' just let y' all know, like, please don't be opening the floodgates. Cause every time I repost something on my main page, people be like, all righty now, sis, let's start. In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

You know, I Had a sandwich today.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Like, baby, hit me up every single day. I'm like, y', all. I'm not trying to hide y' all or, like, block it. Like, I want to talk to y', all, but, like, it can't be every day now. Like, when I open the door, you can't be like, okay, so we cousins, bet. Like, you know, like, just take the repost. You know, like, come on, now.

[Patrick Hines]

But that doesn't apply to me, right? You and I are officially best friends now.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yes. Yes. You can send me videos anytime you want. And I did send a video back. I was just late, and I felt bad.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

I was gonna say, lacy, you have to tell the listeners that you responded, because it just makes us.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I never responded. And I was like, what the hell are they doing on the podcast, Guys? Judith, who booked them? Who booked them?

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. We were. As soon as we sent that video, I was. I was just assuming you were just waiting by your phone to receive a video message from us.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Sure.

[Patrick Hines]

So I was, like, refreshing every 30 seconds. And then after, like, two days of that, I was like, oh, God, we blew it. Oh, God. We had a chance to be friends, and we blew it.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

We were coming to terms with it. We were like, okay, it's over. We level jumped. It's fine. We totally get it. We're not for everyone. We totally understand. And the minute we really were okay with that and in peace with that, you came along and saved the day.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Damn, I love the fuckboy, y'. All. I love that I fuck boy, y'. All. It's like, you send a fuckboy text and you're like, damn it. He didn't respond. Oh, my God. Okay, maybe he got hit by a bus. Like, it's cool. It's cool. Maybe he got t mobile. Like, maybe it didn't go in, you know? Like, I don't know. Like, I start, and then I start rationalizing, and then I get to the point where, like, you know, I hated him anyway. I hate it. I hated her. Like, you know, I ain't even like her. I can't even believe I did that shit. And she responded. I'd be like, that was show anyway, right? I'm about to text again and be like, oops, that wasn't for you, because I hate you.

[Patrick Hines]

My other friend, Lacey, we sent it to you by accident. Yeah.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Geez. Yes. I love this for us. So I do have to ask you guys, what is your relationship with scams? Like, have you been scammed? Do you love them? Do you hate them? Do you like scammers? Like, how do you feel? It could be anything. You can tell me about a scam. Anything.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Oh, I got my identity stolen.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Ooh, okay.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Cute. Super cute. I was like a single 22, 23 year old, living here in New York City, born and raised. But I started getting all these bills in the mail from, like, Baby Gap and the children's place. Now, I am not a mother by choice. I don't want kids not into it. So. And I was like, right, Like. And I was like, a single 22 year old. So I'm getting these bills in the mail from the children's place and all of these, like, children's stores for, like, this is a 1000% true story. And they use my Social Security number. And they went in personally because they were like, on the video. So in the. On the surveillance camera, they went into these stores and opened credit cards in my name in these stores and chase my bank. I was like, I got to tell you, I knew exactly where, like, the dates. I had alibis for them. I was like, I was at this party at this show. Like, that wasn't me. But I was also like, you sending.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Those photos and shit with today's newspaper, right? You was like, what that. Chase. Chase them down.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

But then my real alibi was just myself because I was like, single, 22, don't want kids, never will. Don't try to change my mind. And they were like, oh, yeah, you totally did not go to the children's place in New Jersey and at the mall and spend, like, $800.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

So they ran it up. I love that. They also went to bougie ass places for their kids. Obviously, this must be a parent. They was like, okay, now we got the coins. Let's go to Oshkosh. B'. Gosh.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Like, y' all couldn't go down to the Goodwill.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Y' all couldn't go to. What's that? Aeropostale. The bootleg Abercrombie. Like, y' all gotta go to the good shit. They was like, you want a baby Gucci? And we getting. We getting little Stephan some loafers. Like, what? What?

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Little Stephan?

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. I have never been scammed, and I am so dumb. I really can't believe that I've never been scammed. But I would really, like. I would ra. Relish the opportunity to hire a private investigator. Like, I want a reason to hire a P.I. and really, like, find out some shit about somebody.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Girl, what do you mean? You know, I'm an excellent Googler. I will I am here for you.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

And Patrick, you could say you haven't been scammed, but if I'm correct, you do date men, correct? Yes. I'm married to one, so. Yes, so you are. That is a scam. Men are a scam. Now, gay men, a little less, but still.

[Patrick Hines]

Or a little more. I mean, I mean, especially when it comes to, like, attributes that people say that they have. But, like, I gotta tell you, Jillian can vouch for me. My husband Steve, who, by the way, is a huge fan of yours. He was the one that, like a while ago was like, you gotta check out scam. Gotta. Steve is obsessed with you. My husband is the most like. Like, he's the least scammy scammer person possible. Somehow I ended up with a very, like, just honest to goodness good person.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Well, also, you have a seven year old and Daisy scams you on the D daily, because she will. She will throw a tantrum. And then the minute she gets what she wants, it's all puppies and rainbows.

[Patrick Hines]

So she's my daughter.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Daily.

[Patrick Hines]

She is a total savage. Especially when it comes to washing her hair. That's the biggest scam. Like, she will literally, like, I guess I have been scammed. Lacy, when.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah, you have a child, they're unemployed, they take your things, they literally come into the world booty naked. And all of a sudden they have a room and stuff.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

It's from the children's place. Furnished from the children's place.

[Patrick Hines]

She hates washing her hair so much that when I leave the bathroom, she will put actual shampoo in the water. And then when I like. And then. And do the, like, the thing with her hands to make it bubbly. And then I'll come back in and she'll pretend that she washed her hair.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Well, like, you're not gonna notice. Like, you can't tell when hair is unwashed. I will say, like, there's an age range. I think it is like 7, 8. Where I distinctly remember, like, I didn't want to get in the shower. And I don't know why. I remember I would run to shower water. And one time I felt I was a little bit of a. It was just seven and eight guys. I'm clean. I wash my legs. I'm black. Okay? I have a dry brush. I have several different soaps for all of my different orifices. Don't try to drag me, okay? I have a black mama who I would get in trouble if I smell, like, outside. Like, she did not play that shit. So if I was musty After I came home from school, she was like, uh, why are you musty? Like, I would get in trouble. She be like, go to your room. I can't believe you came in here stanking after playing out on the playground. This is. I'm. I'm so upset with you. Like, black mama don't play that shit. They'll smell all up under your arms. Like, I know you ain't washed today. You just put some deodorant over the other deodorant. I kill you. Like, so one time I went into the bathroom, and I turned the water on like I was showering, and then I sat on the toilet. Tell me why I fell asleep on the toilet. My mama came in. Cause obviously I had been in the shower for too long. She was like, oh, this is a little bitch dad in here. So she comes in, and she sees me asleep on the toilet. I got in so much trouble, but I really feel like she wanted to laugh. It's like, what the fuck? No, she didn't. I was just, like, knocked.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Like, I tried to do the. When I was like, oh, I'm sick. I can't go to school today. I tried to do the thing where you put the thermometer next to the lamp, and it would say that you had, like, 102 fever, but it didn't change. It was 98.6. And I was, like, pressing it onto the light bulb, and it never changed temperature. And I was like, fuck. I got.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I thought it was gonna get too hot, that she was gonna come in and be like, Your temperature is 500 degrees.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Are you, like, shipped off to the hospital? But no, it just didn't work at all. So that's bullshit. Thanks a lot, movies. You taught me nothing, you guys.

[Patrick Hines]

I was such a good, nerdy kid. Like, I just never broke a rule in my life.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

I live in fear of getting yelled at. Like, I just remember, like, when we would be in math class and the kids would be, like, messing around too much. I'm like, she's gonna yell. Just, everyone stop it. Like, she's gonna yell. Everyone stop it.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Oh, my God. I was like, I got suspended because I plagiarized a paper in high school. So. And the only reason they caught me is because this other person, who's, like, an apple, absolute piece of shit. Different podcast, time and a place, he plagiarized the same paper. And so we got caught. But I was undiagnosed adhd. So I was being scammed myself by my neurological situation.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

What was I supposed to do suspension is a little extra. Like, clearly, if you are stealing papers, you need education. So I just feel like maybe like an in school suspension. I agree they're giving you consequences because in college you can get kicked out of school for that shit. But it's like, that's a little extra. Like, look, I obviously need help with learning how y' all go tell me to go home.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

And so I was. I was on student government. This is so stupid. I was. Ashley was actually the president, and I was. I was female. I was female. Social representative asked me. I planned the dances, or I was, because this happened very early on. I got kicked off student government. They, like, really made an example out of me. But my boyfriend at the time tried to make it. He wanted to make flyers, and it was like a witch hunt. And I was like, dude, I did it. Like, I lied on this paper. Like, don't act like they're coming for me. Like, they're coming for me hard. But I cheated.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

So, like, coming a little too hard. It's like, who would have really known you had cheated other than the administrators? Like, we could have kept this special act. Like, I'm a real president. Sweep this under the rug, bro.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

And the guy, the teacher who was, like, in charge of student government literally fought. They were. They were like, we had to count the votes for the other girl just to prove, like, I wanted a landslide. And so they were like, we kind of would love to have her. Like, can you. Like, it's a punishment enough to be on student government. You have to go to the stupid meetings. Like, it's all you're doing is working.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

So other people can have fun. Like, that was. The whole job was like.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

So I was like, okay, I'll stay home from school for two days, and then I don't have to go to your stupid meetings. Have fun at your lame dances, you losers.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Right? No, that's fucked up. Fuck that for that, right?

[Patrick Hines]

Can we zoom in on the boyfriend who wanted to make flyers about it being a witch hunt?

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

I was like, I did it. I'm not a witch hunt.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

You should still be with him because he was down for you. He was like, I'm going to FedEx Kinko right now, girl. I got you. Like, we ain't going to look. This is an injustice. Yeah, I know.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Yeah. I feel like, yeah, my husband now is the greatest guy ever, but yeah, yeah, he had my back, that dude in high school.

[Patrick Hines]

You know what we're going to do? We're going to make flyers and we're going to hand him out. This is a witch.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

I was like, can you not make this worse, please?

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Look, he was trying to get you some social mobility. This was before Twitter, I'm guessing. So, like, you know, he couldn't get on Twitter and help you out, you know, be like, twitter, do your thing. So he was like one person, Twitter. He was like, I'm gonna get the word out.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

That's the nicest thing anyone's ever said to me. It was before Twitter, I think. Yes. I am actually 19 years old. Thank you so much. That is very kind.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Scams Meet the woman who made the first move. 20th Century Studios presents A Hulu Original Swiped. Starring Lily James as Whitney Wolf, the visionary founder of Bumble. Through extraordinary grit and ingenuity, Whitney breaks into the male dominated tech industry and launches an innovative, globally lauded dating app, forever changing changing dating culture. A Hulu original swiped streaming September 19th on Hulu and Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers. Term supply.

[ExxonMobil Announcer]

What if we could reduce carbon emissions and strengthen the economy? At Exxon Mobil, we believe both are possible. As a global leader in carbon capture and storage, we're empowering industries to reduce their emissions all through technologies that are creating job opportunities in America. How's that for A win? Win ExxonMobil. Let's deliver.

[Patrick Hines]

He's Kenny Maine, the funny guy from ESPN. Formerly, he's Cooper Manning, the more intelligent.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

And handsome of the Manning brothers.

[Patrick Hines]

And he's Brian Baumgartner, but to me, he'll always be Kevin it from the office. Yeah, you and everybody else together. We're the hosts of the new comedy golf podcast, we need a fourth from Smartless Media and SiriusXM. It's like a cold beer after a round. You hear the strangest and most bizarre golf stories from our friends, athletes, celebrities and comedians. It's all about how much we love golf and how much we hate golf. New episodes are out every week. Listen now and subscribe wherever you get your podcast could just be anywhere, just on a couch.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Doesn't matter. But let's get into it. Our first segment here, what's hot and Fried? This is where we warn listeners about scams that are popping on the streets. But more often than not these days, we get a letter from you guys. As always, snitch on your f friends and family@scam got us pod gmail.com. just make sure your scam is retired because we don't want to. What? What up? Your bag. Amen. Okay, so we have a letter. I need a fake name from one of you Guys, we don't care about gender.

[Patrick Hines]

Brenda.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Oh, Brenda. Brenda's got a baby.

[Patrick Hines]

It's actually Brenda Chardonnay. She goes by her first and last name, right?

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Brenda Chardonnay. Love that. For her class.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Her middle name is Buttery.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Oh, yes, Brenda Buttery Chardonnay. Okay. I do. Occasionally, I do have a buttery Chardonnay. Like with a fish or like a dessert.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

There's no bigger scam on earth than buttery chardonnay. I always taste warm. You can have 10 ice cubes in it. It always feels and tastes warm. I don't get it.

[Patrick Hines]

It's my favorite. I want it. I want. I want it 24 hours a day.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Every now and then. Because I'm a steel barrel girl myself. Oh, yeah, my bougie ness. Because I actually will ask people where wines are from at restaurants. And I actually know what that means taste wise. I don't even do it to be bougie. I used to wait tables. But I do a dick when I'm like, where is it from? Or also oysters. I do not eat only kudamono oysters. Oysters from Washington. Oysters from Hawaii.

[Patrick Hines]

I'm an east coast oysters girl and a Seattle oyster.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah, well, Washington. Yeah. But I like the.

[Patrick Hines]

I like the. Give me like the.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

The.

[Patrick Hines]

Like the oysters from the Cape Cod.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah, I can fuck with those two. But them big ass oysters, that somebody's like, we got dollar oysters, bitch. I'm not eating that. Okay? No, that oyster. That oyster is literally, like, getting biodiesel fuel in it. Every. Y' all need to be washing them oysters with Don. Like the ducks. Cause, like, them oysters just nasty. Okay?

[Patrick Hines]

It's all about the sauces anyway. Like, give me the horseradish and the mignonette.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

A mignonette. Give me a champagne mignonette.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, Champagne mignonette.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Leave me a horseradish.

[Patrick Hines]

Is it too late to change the lady's name to Champagne Mignonette?

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

No, it's not.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

No.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Champagne mignonette. Love it. Love it. So champagne minuet says, you know I love you, girl. I guess I do. Champagne. Big fan of the pod. I'm here for a submission for what's hot and fried. All right. I live in Vancouver. Today I'm pretty sure I was scammed by my dentist, and I'm not sure how to feel about it. Here's how it went. So I went to see my dentist for a routine checkup. I floss every day. I go to regular appointments every six months like most folks, okay? Come on, mouth. What that mouth do? You better have a clean ass mouth. She said, I'll be in my mouth every day. I put tide in it. Gain Febreze. I put fabric softener in my mouth. The bitch is clean. Okay. Love it. So usually a regular cleaning and exam takes no more than an hour, and I was able to get everything done. X rays, exams, cleaning, fluoride, et cetera. But today, something strange happened. Oh, now some shoe for a piece of change. My dental hygienist was doing her thing, and she finished cleaning the bottom half of my teeth, and she moved on to the top half. She cleaned maybe three of my top teeth and decided to call it quits. She told me I have to come back for another appointment the next week to finish the top half. She was also emphasizing that visiting every six months is not enough and told me that everyone should visit the dentist every three months for a cleaning. So I'm gonna stop there. I do have friends who go every three months, and I think I'm gonna start going every three months because I was trifling. I will share. I think I might have already shared this, so I'm not gonna get too deep into it, but I can't remember. But I got a new dentist, and obviously when the pandemic happened, I was not trying to have my mouth open in front of strangers. It just felt very dangerous. I've never gotten Covid, Knock on wood. And if I get Covid, like, they'll be like, hey, girl, jobs, like, don't come.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Like, I feel like if I got covet because I get tested every day at work, they throw a bag over my head and throw me into a van. You know, get her out of here. Get that nasty out of here. Like, you know? Yeah. And so I understood. Like, I didn't want to go. So then when Covid, kind of like, I got vaccinated, everything was getting a little bit more chill. I was like, okay, let me set up these dental appointments because your girl's down bad. I had one tooth that was hurting real bad. I had one tooth that, like, if I ate anything sweet and I didn't brush right after, it would be like, hey, girl. Like, just like, hey, girl. Hey, girl. It's me. Your nerves.

[Patrick Hines]

We try to have such bad. I have terrible teeth. I've had the worst, like, teeth problems my whole entire life. But when I was, like, younger and I didn't have health insurance, I had one tooth that hurt so bad I was literally grinding up, like, Advil and rubbing it Directly onto the tooth. Does that work out bad? Yeah, it did. I mean, like, it worked, but it made it worse because then, like, you, I didn't get. I, like, couldn't afford the root canal or whatever, and then. So it just keeps getting worse and worse and worse until I ended up in the emergency room at Bellevue.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

The Bellevue Hospital in New York, they have, like, an emergency dental area. And I'll never forget the dentist numbing my mouth, putting his foot up on the chair and ripping the tooth out of my mouth, and hearing all of the cracking and breaking. He had to brace his foot on the chair to rip the tooth.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I feel like that. I feel like. I feel like he not supposed to do that.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

I'm horrified by this.

[Patrick Hines]

I know. I know. I'll tell you, it didn't hurt, though. Like, he. He did a good job. He numbed me up, and it didn't hurt, but, like, just the hearing of that sound. Oh, I'll never forget it. It hard.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Can I ask you what year this was? Cause I lived across the street. I used to live on 29th and 1st across the street.

[Patrick Hines]

I mean, it would have been 15 years ago, so I can't believe.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Did he work at Bellevue? Cause I just feel as though that was giving.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Like, he's like the dentist from Little Shop of Horrors.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

What the hell? How he bracing himself? He got one leg on the wall. He got one, and then he got on the pliers.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

I was gonna say two hands. I can picture it. I can see it.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, God.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

It's called an extraction, not like a you. That's what a rip. This is not the Jaws of Life, bitch. I get in a car accident. What the hell?

[Patrick Hines]

But then, years later, I went to a fancy dentist for another procedure, and she gave me that. The laughing gas that they give you. And she gave me so much. I was so fucked up. And I remember my eyes were closed, and I felt myself starting to, like, drift away. Cause, you know, you don't go to sleep with that. That just, like, makes you happy. And I remember being so fucked up on laughing gas and saying the words, I have to stay alive for Daisy. I have to stay alive. That's my daughter.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

No, you're not supposed to be seeing God when you go to the dentist. You're not supposed to be like, hey, Soos, is that you in the chaplist? You're not supposed to see him when you go to the dentist. I know, but fancy dentists, sometimes they'll run it up if they're like, oh, you got insurance? Okay, bet. So we actually gonna give you some anesthesia and some laughing gas, and we gonna numb the area. And also, like, would you like a boob job? And it's like, hey, y' all just adding on shit. Like, what?

[Patrick Hines]

And I'm like, yes to all.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

They looked at your insurance and they said, ppo.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

And put the ski. Ski mask on and was like, run it up. I do wanna say, though, a little scam, which. Okay, only if you're in dire strengths, guys. If there's universities, schools, dental schools in your area, you can sign up and you should do it preemptively to have dent are in DDS school and they'll clean your teeth for you. They'll like, fix. They'll do root canals for free. All this stuff for free. Sometimes it's like a menial charge that they'll charge, but it's way, way, way cheaper if you do not have insurance to go to. Look up your local colleges. Try to find the best one, though.

[Patrick Hines]

NYU Dental School, they have that here in New York.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

I've heard of doing that for haircuts. And that's scary enough, but, like, a dentist. The last time I had, like, a big dental thing, it was my wisdom teeth getting taken out a thousand years ago. And they were, like, impacted and upside down and all this crazy stuff, but they, like. They knocked me out. So there was, like, a needle in my arm for the anesthesia. And apparently when. When kids are, like, teenagers, this is a thing that happened. Or maybe this was yet another scam and I didn't realize it. I woke up with track marks all over my arm because the dentist was like, oh, yeah, yeah. People your age, when they're under, they rip out, like, without. Like, unconsciously rip out the needles in the arm. I got this. This happened. I was. I was incredibly underweight at the time. Like, scary skinny in the middle of the summer. So no long sleeves. Walking around with track marks on both my arms because of my fucking wisdom teeth.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Now, wait a minute. Both your arms? They had needles in both your arms? Well.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Cause I kept ripping it out. And so they would try the other arm, and then I would rip it out, like, as I was under. And I'm like, is this real, or could you just not find a vein? Like, what's happening here?

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I feel like somebody couldn't find a vein, bro. I really feel like I will say this about dentistry, and if you're a dds, like, I'm so sorry. Cause, you know, I'll be shady towards Y' I swear to God, they be letting anybody have a dds. You gotta look at reviews. You really gotta check. Cause there'd be people in here just drilling on your nerve like Bob the Builder having. I was crying and convulsing in the chair. I swear to God, I'm gonna find that dentist. I'm gonna ruin her. I don't remember her name, but I will ruin her one day because she must say, that fucked me.

[Patrick Hines]

Dentists. She's serious. If you're the Airbnb of dentists, she's never gonna forget it. She's never gonna forget.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

So Champagne Mignette says the cleaning stopped abruptly. They did four teeth on the top and was like, all right, good. So knowing that she's not going to finish the cleaning my teeth, like in this appointment, I made an appointment to come back the next week. When I saw the bill, I saw that they charged me two full price cleanings. Like, hello, you did half the job and expect me to pay for the whole thing and come back twice as often. I'm pretty sure she was scamming at this point. What kind of hygienist would only do half of your teeth for an appointment and then ask you to come back for the other half, then charge you double the price for the job? I hope this had. I hope you had more of a backbone than me. Tell your hygienist no. I will have all my teeth cleaned in one appointment, please. Yeah. Yes. This I feel like because of the pandemic, Dennis got hit hard and people. Because it's like an open mouth thing. People like, I'm not going to open my mouth up to y' all and get aerosols all in my mouth and my throat and whatnot.

[Patrick Hines]

I don't want your murder spray in my mouth. Get out of here.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Right. It's like you ch. It's like facials and like things that like that. Like I. I see that they probably were down bad.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Obviously this person was like. Cuz here's the thing. It would be different because I did get half of my mouth cleaned and one tooth extracted and I had to go back for the other half to be deep cleaned.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

And.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Because they're really not doing the whole we take out all of your wisdom teeth anymore at once because they push you down for a while and I have to work. So I get that. But if you numbed me top and bottom and then you just cleaned a little bit of the top, like that's a scam.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Like, yeah, that is a real. That is Champagne's problems, right?

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Come on.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Someone had to say it.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, good one.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Someone had to do it. Sorry.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Is it Because I feel like obviously this person is using insurance and normally even good insurance, they're going to give you like one cleaning every six months. Like, like 2x rays a year. Like you have to pay out of pocket. If you go every three months, it's good for your mouth. But yeah, yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Every three months. That sounds like a lot. I've never heard that that's up on you.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I have friends who do it and thing is, is like, it'll prevent you from getting cavities a lot. Like if you have a good routine and you go every three months, it'll prevent like some bad shit from popping off in your mouth.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

And I bet if you keep it up and go every three months, the appointments aren't as long. If you go every six months, like it's more of an upkeep kind of.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

And I didn't go for like a year and a half, maybe two years. And when I went in, I tell you they did the X rays and like I have like a nice front facing smile, but there's shit going on in the back that it was like, honestly, when they start, like my dentist did the X ray or the hygienist did the X rays. The dentist came in and he just started. And I only go to dentist in Beverly Hills. Cause I need your rent to be high enough that you can't fuck me up and that you're not. You know what I mean? I came in, they had Balenciaga pillows. I said, yes, okay, so y' all ain't gonna do me dirty. Cause y' all need y' all coins to pay this ren. So he was like sighing very heavily. He's like looking at my ex rays. He was like, how? How did it get this bad?

[Patrick Hines]

And like, oh my God.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

To the point where I cried. I cried a little bit at the dentist office because like when I tell you they shamed the fuck out of me. Like, I felt like the dirtiest bitch. And I was like, I'm bullshit.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

It's all bullshit. It's all to scare you. It's like fear mongering to get you to go every three months, right?

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

He was like a woman your age. Like you should have your bone in your mouth right now. Like you're so young. Like, what happened? Like, he really went. I feel like I was with Ayanla. I felt like I was with Ayanla, fix my teeth. And he was literally like, you need to look at this photo of Harriet Tubman and explain why you're not flossing every day. Like, it hurt me. Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. Is this the part where we talk about Ayanla for 45 minutes?

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

No. We have to get back into this. Cause people will kill me.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, God. I love Ayanla Van Sant more than any. She's a skimmer.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Her skin therapy is so good. Chef's gift. I'll never forget when she had a black man who had, like. Like, he had, like, 15, 16 kids. And so she gave him a bunch of baby dolls to hold and, like, all these different little black baby dolls, right? And she was like, do you see? Do you see how you cannot accurately father this many children and give them love and support? You can't even hold all these babies. And then the camera pans, and there's one baby face down on the floor, and she's like, see, that was. That was on the ground. I was like, what kind of therapy is this?

[Patrick Hines]

Your Ayanla voice is really good. My husband does it, too. But. Because remember when she scammed Oprah? Remember when Ayanla scammed Oprah because Oprah was trying to give her a show?

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Everybody scammed Oprah.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Oprah's been scared.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

But she was like.

[Patrick Hines]

She was like, yes, Oprah, I totally want to do a show with you. While she was secretly making a deal with Barbara Walters at the same time.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Oh, my God.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Oprah put on a lot of scammers. That's why I need to meet Oprah, because I'm trying to get. I'm trying to get my scam on to. Because, like, Dr. Phil just be like, stop doing crack. And it's like, that's healing.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. And Dr. Oz is like, not a medical doctor or whatever. There's something about Dr. Oz where everyone's like, I don't even know if he's licensed.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Right? But, like, if he wears scrubs, we're supposed to fall for that? I don't think so.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Exactly. And it's also like, bro, we had a TV show. Why do you have on a white coat? Are you about to do medicine to somebody?

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Right?

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

At any moment, you're gonna do some medicine to somebody. I don't understand why you're wearing a white coat. We on tv.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

We on the sound st. Ridiculous.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

A scammer. A scammer. Robbery.

[ExxonMobil Announcer]

Can lighter structures really be stronger? Yes, they can. ExxonMobil is helping advance American industrial innovation with Proxima systems, enabling a lighter and stronger alternative to traditional Rebar while lowering greenhouse gases emissions to help build a more efficient construction industry with sustainability in mind. ExxonMobil. Let's deliver.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

That's the sound of your feet stepping on fresh fall leaves. That's right y'. All. Fall is back and in full swing. It's the perfect time to refresh your wardrobe with pieces that feel just as good as they look. And luckily, Quince makes it easy to look polished, stay warm and save big without compromising on quality. Quint has all the elevated essentials for fall. Think 100% Mongolian cashmere from $50 washable silk tops, which y' all know I love. And skirts. Perfectly tailored denim and all of the prices that feel too good to be true. But they are. By partnering directly with ethical top tier factories and cutting out the middleman. You know, I call him the middle scam. Quinn can deliver luxury quality pieces at half the price of similar brands. Now y' all know the washable silk tops have been a staple in my closet. I just got their like long black, like I think it's like a woolish coat. The material is fantastic. Keep it classic and cozy this fall with long lasting staples from quince. Go to quince.com goddess for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N C E.com goddess to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com goddess all set for your flight? Yep, I've got everything I need. Eye mask, neck pillow, T mobile, headphones. Wait, T Mobile? You bet. Free inflight Wi Fi 15 off all Hilton brands. I never go anywhere without T mobile. Same goes from a water bottle, chewing gum, nail clippers. I'm gonna leave you to it.

[Patrick Hines]

Find out how you can experience travel better@t mobile.com Travel qualifying plan required.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Wi Fi were available on select US airlines. Deposit and Hilton honors. Membership required for 15% discount.

[Patrick Hines]

Terms and conditions apply.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

And Frau, it's time for my favorite segment of the show, Historic Hoodwinks. This is where I'm gonna regale Jillian Patrick with a famous con caper. Group of criminals, single miscreant. We don't know yet. Maybe we love them, maybe we hate him. I have a feeling we ain't gonna like this person. So today we're talking about Sean Kirkham. So he was a quintessential lifelong scam artist. I love that. A serial entrepreneur known as a life ruiner. Okay. I love that. His mugshot, he's giving Instagram like, is that real?

[Patrick Hines]

He's 66 and kind of hot. What's happening?

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Shut up.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

No, he's not.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

He's like, looking up, trying to be all cute. I hate him.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

No, he is hot. He's six' six. When you are over six feet, you're automatically a little bit cute. It don't matter what you look like.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

You know what I always say? Ugly from within. That's it. He's ugly from within.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

And I mean, he's not. Fine. Fine. Cause they'll drag me. Cause sometimes I'll say somebody cute and they're like, they wasn't cute. And then other times.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah, yeah, Okay, I see it. I see. But he's, like medium ugly and he's tall, so that's, like, gonna definitely take him over the top.

[Patrick Hines]

Sex. Sex. My Lord.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Right? A tree. Climb him like a tree. So he's known as a life ruiner, which I love that. I've met some life ruiners. Like who? I remember this one girl in college, like, she was a life ruiner. Everybody who became friends with her ended up down bad. Like, one of her friends, she was like a hot girl. One of her. The girls who didn't realize. Cause we were like, stay away from that bitch. She's a life ruiner. She done ended up so deep with her that somehow she done got beat up by half the girls basketball team in a McDonald's. What? Wait, what college?

[Patrick Hines]

What college did you go to?

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

The city of Pittsburgh.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Where's the life ruiner now? Did she peaked when she was ruining everyone's lives and now she's.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

She was real fine. She probably still out here ruining people's lives. And good for her, you know, just moving to the next life to ruin. I hate that so many people are getting stomped down in a McDonald's, though. You know, like, I mean, beat down. No, that's not. I don't. I hate that for them. I hate that for them. That's not cool.

[Patrick Hines]

No.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

He would take advantage of anyone around him. He became most known for scandals surrounding a memorial stone project commemorating missing and murdered women in British Columbia. However, the scam is only the final chapter of the story that stretches back further. So his early life. So Kirkham spent much of his early life with his mother in Hay River, Canada, before moving to Montreal with an adopted family. At 16, he ran away from home when his surrogate parents found out that he was gay.

[Patrick Hines]

He's gay.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah. Yeah, he's gay.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, God damn it.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I like to say G I G H, gay. He's gay.

[Patrick Hines]

Gay.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

And he moved to New York City. Great place to go when you're gay. In 1990, where he lived on the screen. After several months, Kham found a job as a busboy at Club usa, owned by New York life nightlife king Peter Gation. O yes. Shortly after Kirkham's arrival, he and a bouncer robbed a drug dealer by pretending to be security and taking everything that he had bad. Is this Peter Kam?

[Patrick Hines]

That's Peter Gation.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Peter G. He got an eye patch. Now, is that for irony or he really need that eyeball?

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

No, that's real.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. I don't remember. Remember the Limelight movie with Macaulay Culkin and Party Monster?

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Yes, And Party monster glamor. Dylan McDermott played Peter Gation.

[Patrick Hines]

Peter Gation, yeah.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

We need a new Party Monster, because I've heard that story is.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Oh, my God. Chloe Savini's in it. I mean, not the real story. I mean, she probably was. She was a club kid back in the day. But she's also in the movie.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Michael, is it? Michael. Alec.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Michael. Alec.

[Patrick Hines]

Michael. Alec is dead now. He got out of prison and then he died. And I, like, knew people who knew him, and he was. They were like, he's not really any fun to be around anymore. And then he died.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Damn.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

He's also a murderer, by the way.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Us, we forget.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

So, you know, not the greatest dude.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Shortly after Kirkham's arrival, he and the bouncer, they robbed somebody, right? And they were like, we're bouncers and he's tall. Right. So, like, if you're giving tall, you're giving bouncer, like, totally robbed a drug dealer, and the bouncer kept all the coke and Kirkham kept the money. A symbiotic relationship that would go on to help sustain Kirkham's life in New York City. I love that he was like, you keep the blow and I keep the money.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Yeah. Like, it's a mutually beneficial transactions.

[Patrick Hines]

Also, just like robbing a drug dealer is just not a smart way. It's just not a smart thing to do.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

No, it's not. But also, like, if you're the drug dealer, you're at the lowest level of drugs, so the drug dealer got to take that. L. It's not like they robbed the kingpin. So he was eventually fired, but not before meeting Michael Alig and Peter Gation himself. Kirkham's firing prompted him to move to Miami, where he was then hired by the FBI for his ability to worm his way into nightlife, clubs, parties, AKA magnets. For high level criminal. One biographer, Frank Owen, described Kirkham as. The guy lied constantly about everything. I mean, literally everything. I like Sean because he was really charming, but, you know, he was not a good person. He just did really bad things to people. So I love that you're like, he was a bad guy. He lied about everything. And like. Like every little thing, it's like, like, what else is he lying about? He's like, hey, y', all, I can't make it to work cuz the sky is purple. Like, what is he lying about? That he's just like.

[Patrick Hines]

I also love that he felt like he's a bad. And he found all the other bad gays.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Like, found each other.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

They could smell their own, I guess.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Find your tribe. Find your tribe.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

They go down to, like, tunnel and limelight. Cool story.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

There's a lot of shitty people in the world. You just got to find your person. They said it's somebody for everybody. So if you ask, there's probably somebody else out there who's asked to. And y' all get together, be asked together. Love that for y'. All. So one night while partying in Miami, Kirkham stole Madonna's home phone number from a director's address book at the club. Club.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. Yeah, he's. And did he call her?

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

He showed it off and then sold the entire book to promoters who used it to call celebrities like Bianca Jagger and Liam Neeson, invite them to their parties.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Like, Liam Neeson is showing up to your party.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

He might remember when he said he was out here looking to beat up any black man. Cause his friend got raped by a black man. He's probably like his father. Black man, I have a very special set of skills. Let me go to this Neck club, see if there's black men there.

[Patrick Hines]

Just like Liam Neeson. You made it so far. Just stay quiet. And you could have, like, rode off into the sunset as like one of the greats, and you just had to fucking blow it in the end.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Girl, we loved neck chopping ass. We loved when you was neck chopping everybody. You didn't have to volunteer this information. Nobody found it out. Nobody knew. Yeah, you ain't have to tell us.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

That's like Sean Connery, that famous Barbara Walters interview where she's like, do you still believe what you said about how sometimes it's okay to hit a woman? And he's like, oh, yeah, no, no. It's like, like, for sure always okay to hit a woman. And it's like, sean, oh my God. Yeah, you could have backtracked and said, no, Barbara. I've learned my lesson. That was a horrible thing for me to say. Their Filofax to the club. I wonder.

[Patrick Hines]

I know.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Why is this, like, address book, this valuable, valuable address book just, like, strewn about.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Right. It's the 90s, though. He knows you don't have to be in a pay phone and be like, hey, madam. Hey, Madge.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, If I'm like 19, early 1990s Liam Neeson, and I'm just now finding out that I was in the same address because my Madonna. That's a good day for early 90s Liam Neeson.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah. Because he wasn't neck chopping at that point. So, you know, it's kind of nice. So the takedown of the limelight. So in 1995, Kirkham returned to New York City and offered his services to the dea. I love that the government was like, this is our dude. Like, we love him. This is before Twitter. The FBI got Twitter now. So they just be getting all the. They'd be like, confess. Oh, they tweeted, okay, let's go to their house. But this is before Twitter. So he was just like, all right, we just got Kirkham. He gonna go in there. He also crime. But we gonna let that slide. Cause you know.

[Patrick Hines]

Cause he's the tallest gay around. We need him.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

The tallest gay. We need him. So the DA immediately hopped on the opportunity and employed him taking down the city's most popular clubs at the time. Peter Gation's Limelight Club, where Andy Warhol and other 90s celebrities used to party. So this club looks like a church.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

That was the whole vibe.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, It's a gym now. It's a gym now. It was. It was like a shopping center.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

No, I was about to say, I've been here. It was a clothing store or something at one point. I've been to the cloth store.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Limelight is pretty badass, actually. Like, when it was a nightclub and you went into the nightclub and it was a church like that, it was pretty amazing. It was a pretty amazing spot, right?

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

It's giving look. You can drop a love for Jesus. You know, I talk about that on another episode. So I'm not mad at it. So due to the high profile nature of the Limelight and the subsequent drugs flowing through it, Gation was the perfect scapegoat for Mayor Rudy Giuliani's tough on crime campaign, which I love that. Rudy Giuliani was tough on crime. Also doing crime. His daughter was shoplifting.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

He's like, I know crime because I do it. Wait, did I say that? Take that out. We live. Oh, I can't. Okay.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Giuliani worked.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Giuliani really fucked up his shit. Cause he was like popping. People loved him. And then he America's mayor after 9, 11.

[Patrick Hines]

Are you kidding me? I know.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

How you gonna fuck that up? How? You got a whole like a never forget tragedy. And now, now you at the fucking press conferences outside the lawn care center with Paradise Landscaping.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Total landscaping. Fucking gar. Through and through.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

And I love that Four seasons Total landscaping. Had to have known that they meant the right four seasons and was like, no, yeah, you can book us.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

I loved that. Like so many people were in on that to just make them look so stupid. It was great.

[Patrick Hines]

That story was. It just kept on giving that story. He was leaking hair dye. Remember that?

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Oh yeah.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

It was like just the one year anniversary of Four Seasons Total Landscaping. It was all over my timeline again because everyone was like, this was. This was only a year ago and also 50 years ago.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

So Kirkham was one of three main informants working for the DAA. This they supplied evidence of limelight, shady dealings. Michael Algae was the one of the others before he was arrested for the murder of Angel Melendez. So he was helping the dea and then they were like, wait a minute. Hey, it's the E and A. Michael.

[Patrick Hines]

Alec murdered Angel and then chopped him up and put him in a box in his living room where it stayed for days on end before he. He took it in a taxi and threw the box into the Hudson river with the help of the taxi driver.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

It's a horrible, horrible. It is really bad.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

He a murderer. Murderer.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

They were literally in Michael Alex living room with their feet on the box being like, does anyone see an angel?

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

It's awful, like doing drugs. And everyone was so fucked up that was coming in and out of it that they were like, oh, hahaha. Like he would just be like, oh yeah, I killed him and chopped him up. And everyone's like, oh, Michael, pass the blow. You're hilarious. Like another pill. Yeah, amazing, right?

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Like, why are you. I'm not hanging out with no murderers.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

It's.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

It's lacy.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

It's. It's a banana story.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Like, how do I know I'm not gonna be next? I'm not hanging out.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Exactly, exactly.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I don't understand. So instead of waiting to be arrested for his own illicit dealings, of which the D. A handlers were aware, Kirkham began an escape plan. He started recording meetings with his handlers, and then contracted Gation's legal team to offer to sell them confidential details of the case to make money before he fled the country with his Canadian passport. However, the double crosser was double crossed when gation's legal team, knowing that Kirkham's plan was entirely illegal, contacted the prosecution and set up a sting. So they were like, we gonna cross you because actually, we need to. We. The charges are bad on our side, so we down bad. We actually. So we gonna tell the d. A on you because we did. We got murders that we gotta deal with.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Oh, my God.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

So Kirkham immediately made his claims that he was a sex worker and one of the prosecutors had a sexual relationship with him, which ear a charge of lying to the federal agent. So now he was like, all right, well, wait, wait, wait. This needs to be a mistrial because I. I've been boning agent agent forbes. I've been boning him. So this all null and void. Like, what?

[Patrick Hines]

Unbelievable. I can't believe I don't know this story.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

He was found guilty, fled to Vancouver, rearrested, and sentenced to 57 months in prison. Ironically, he was the only person involved in the limelight case to be convicted and served anytime during a later inter. In a documentary about the history of limelight, Kirkham bizarrely said, if you go back to the times of the 1940s, when the Nazis were on trial in Nuremberg, they said they were doing a job. That's how I felt. I was doing a job and getting paid for it. Now, how did you think? What?

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Never, never compare yourself to the plight of the Nazi. I mean, never.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

And you thought people were gonna be sympathetic to that? They like, damn, you know, God, everybody at Auschwitz was really just, like, trying to get a check. Like, you acting like Auschwitz is Amazon. Like, no, right?

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. I cannot believe we've never covered this. How do we not know this story.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Or that it was so glossed over in the party monster documentary that we covered? Because all of the other major players in the story are in that documentary.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

They probably didn't have enough time.

[Patrick Hines]

Look at this. I'm wearing a t shirt that says, where's my club?

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Wow. Love that.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

A theme. So Kirkham's next chapter began when he met Israeli PO Star droro Barack, also known as the Roman razi. Kirkham found Barack's contact information online and tried to hire him to model for his madeup company, the world's my playground llc. A boutique diamond. I'm doing air quotes. A boutique diamond brokerage. Firm that also specializes. Specializes in special events.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Okay, subtle with your there.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

So Kirkham said that he was Sean Michael Kirkham, the son of Baron Graham Kirkham, founder of the multimillion dollar furniture empire. The two continue to exchange emails, wherein Kirkham discovered that Barack also had a career as an aide in the United Nations Israeli consulate. Barack, that's. He was a model and he was in the consulate. Okay. They just let anybody do anything in the 90s, huh?

[Patrick Hines]

I was gonna say that he only got away with this because it was before the Internet, but I guess if they're emailing. I guess not.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Yeah, right.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

But they're emailing like Sarah Jessica Parker Sex in the City, you know, like, email was fresh.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, it was real new.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

That was when AOL was popping. Now, aol, a scam email address. You do that when you sign up for porn. Like, you don't use aol. I know. It's crime.

[Patrick Hines]

This was like, before people knew that you were supposed to, like, spend time on the Internet doing a personal background check on anybody you ever met.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Exactly right. So Barack's agents found out about the exchange, and upon the most basic of searches about Kirkham barred further contact. So they did, you know, a little Google or whatever, and they were like, wait a minute. This man is fraudulent. But it was too late. Kirkham had publicly outed Brock's porn career in an Anonymous page 6 expose leading to Barack's firing from the consulate. That's fucked up.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, lighten up, Consulate. It's just a little porn. Come on.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Like you're not all invested in your. Your next porn extravaganza. Like, please, I know sex.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Work is work. So, like, Exactly. Obviously, the consulate wasn't giving up enough coins, so.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Seriously.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

So Kirkham then continued to harass Barack and his agent, even commenting on the Page Six article over a year after its publishing. Colin, you're dumb as fuck. Come and get me. Waste your hoe bills made from the Roman's ass and fly to Budapest. If that's where you think I am, I can't wait to meet you in person. You'll never leave the room alive. What?

[Patrick Hines]

Whoa.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

That. Oh, my God.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

So you just don't put murder threats, like, online.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

You just gonna be like, yeah, paper trail.

[Patrick Hines]

Who did he write that to?

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

To Barack.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

And so Barack, actually. This is sad, but he killed himself a number of years later for unknown reasons. I probably think it was some reasons.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. Oh.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

So in 2012, Kirkham launched the Living Stones, a project that would have seen 62 stone plaques placed at the last known locations of murdered and missing women of British Columbia, many of whom were Indigenous. He used the funds from the nonprofit that he created called the Canadian foundation for Creative Development and Innovation. I love that vague ass name.

[Patrick Hines]

I was just gonna say that. What?

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Like, that's the Canadian foundation for Stuff and Progress and also Future and amends.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Totally not a scam. LLC. We're on the up and up. LLC.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

So, in 2013, only four plaques had been placed, and many who were involved in the project said that they had not been paid for their work. The plaques themselves are only 4 by 4 inches big and embedded into the ground at their location, often unnoticed by the people passing over them. So they're small as hell. Oh, right. And this is also asked. Wait, can we go back to. To that other plaque? This says, Heather Bottomley, born August 17, 1976, murdered.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

What? We didn't even know what she was murdered for. We didn't even know what we're supposed to be, like, commemorating. He was just like, she dead. What? Oh, my God.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

I mean, like, we get it. Must you. It's like, sometimes being a little vague goes a long way. Just say, like, in most, you have to say murdered.

[Patrick Hines]

But also imagine you are one of the people who actually does see the plaque. As you're walking over it, you feel like you're standing on the spot where that murder took place.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah, like murdered how murdered? When? What are we supposed to be remembering? Like, whenever you do this kind of thing, you know, like a Holocaust museum or something like that. The whole point is so that we pay homage and remembrance to these victims, but also so that we have a reminder that so it doesn't happen again. How you just gonna be like, v ass murdered. Murder. Who murdered her?

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

What I was going to get, and is it solved? Like, can we help?

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

What do they need?

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Like, how do we. It makes me want to stop in my tracks and also, like, get to work, but I can't because there's no information.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Did they catch who murdered her? Right. How.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

How outraged do I have to be right now? I'd like to know how angry I need to be.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

It was like, 1976, they killed her. Who is they? What?

[Patrick Hines]

And why is there a plaque about it on the sidewalk? You know what I mean? Like, that's. If that's the most confusing. If you're just standing there and you look, there should at Beast be a QR code that you can hold your phone over it and, like, it takes you to a Page with more information.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

That tells you how angry to be.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah, right.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Like, who are we supposed to be mad at? Who are we supposed to remember? What tragedy should we avoid? Not just murdered. They killed her. What? Okay. Why?

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

It leads to so many more questions. Instead of just giving us information, now we have 50, 15 more questions.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Right. It's just like she did. Okay. Why do we need to know?

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Like, that's horrible. But where does the anger go? I need a direction.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Right. One of the missing women, Carol Louise Ellis, was murdered by Canadian serial killer Robert Pinkerton. After her disappearance on January 21, 1997, Kirkham prompted, like, promised her relative Lori and Ellis 500 to travel to the side of the plaque, which of course, he never sent. Ellis said what? I ended up gay.

[Patrick Hines]

Gasp.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

That's horrible.

[Patrick Hines]

I just gay gasped.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yeah, well, we ended up in return. This is Ellie talking. Was being in debt and he looked like a hero, which made me look like a liar. The city of Vancouver gave Kirkham's foundation $7,000 as a grant to repair street murals as a part of the project. But the people who did that work have not been paid either. So he was hiring people to do the work. But then he was like, oh, yeah, are y' all done? Are y' all done? Oh, y' all finished so fast. Actually, we do not have the funds yet. Cause you know, this is Canadian foundation for freedom and truth and love. And sometimes the checks come in a little slower.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

The Shaun King of it all. My goodness.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

So the city of Vancouver, you know, they gave him all these coins. He's not paying people out. Despite only completing four plaques, Kirkham abruptly dissolved his foundation and ended the involvement with the project due to current events in his life. Another vague ass statement. I'm gonna start telling people when I can't go somewhere, girl, it's current events in my life.

[Patrick Hines]

I would be there. And I know, I. I know, I know it's your wed. But due to current events in my life, I am unable to currently have.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

A note on Twitter. Like, it's just so many current events that are also in my life. And I can't come see your baby shower.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

I know because currently the events that are transpiring, currently, if these events weren't.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Current, I would be there.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

But unfortunately they eventually happening.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

There's many events that are eventing, so I can't come. You know, I. I'm so sorry. So in reality, the city implied that they couldn't trust Kirkham to finish the project. Kirkham was accused and sued by the city of Vancouver, on the basis of public scandal and contempt suffered and continuation of suffering grave damage to his career and reputation. Okay, so he ultimately pled to six charges related to the project and sentenced. He was, like, sentenced to house arrest, which I feel like.

[Patrick Hines]

Sentenced to house arrest.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

What? He's so tall. You can't put men like that in jail.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

He's too thick.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

He can't go to jail. He's too tall. Jails destroy people and minorities. Is he.

[Patrick Hines]

Is. Is he currently under house arrest?

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

You'll see. So Kirk's biggest desire was always to be famous. He spent his entire adulthood weaving elaborate lies about his accomplishments and status and victoriously attacked anyone who said otherwise. In 2016, at the age of 43, he was found dead in his apartment. The death is not ruled as suspicious. So, you know, so somebody.

[Patrick Hines]

There's a definitive answer. Somebody knows what happened.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

But I guess again, it's like, the plaques give me information.

[Patrick Hines]

And, like, not to be a dick about it, but I'm not sad, you know?

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

No, I feel nothing.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

We weren't. This guy.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Fuck this guy.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

What he did to these people, this memorial, these indigenous people, like, that's important. Like, the reason that we commemorate those things is not for vanity. It's not to wave it in people's faces. It's so that it doesn't fucking happen again. Like, that's the whole point of history, is we're supposed to look at shit and be like, didn't that shit just happen?

[Patrick Hines]

Right?

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Especially the missing and murdered indigenous women. Like, this is of an epidemic. Like that. That is. Like, when people fudge with stuff like that, that really makes me crazy. Like, when the scam is about people who have died or trying to help. Like, it just. It's too much. It's too much.

[Patrick Hines]

My only thing is I hope somebody, like, picks this up. Like his project with. With the plaques, but just does it better. Like, it doesn't seem like this whole thing was very well thought out, you know?

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

No, he's got to be a better way. I feel like I say it on every podcast I ever do. There's got to be be a better way.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I feel like he went to Home Depot. The plaques aren't that big. He was like, y' all wood burn in here, right?

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Right. Would you say 4 inches by 4 inches?

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I was like, y' all put some laminate on it, though, cuz it's gonna go in the ground. Yeah, I spring for the laminate. No, I only want four. I'm supposed to do 16, but four is enough. Like, What?

[Patrick Hines]

But my grant. My grant check still hasn't cleared, so. I'll be back.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I'll be back. Yeah, no, y' all make them, though, and then I'mma come in and approve them. I'm gonna need to hold all of them at one time.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

And then. And I'mma prove them.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. What a piece of shit, this guy.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Piece of awful, awful guy. Bad dude. We do not with this guy. Guys, it's time for the saddest part of the show where I have to let Jillian and Patrick go, but not before. Oh, we do scammer of the week. This is where we highlight an honorary charlatan. Either we love him or we hate him. We don't know yet. We make no promises. Today we're talking about Davion. He's 22 and currently on the run after allegedly committing fraud to bond his boyfriend, Devonte Jones, 26, out of jail. Okay, this is real love. That's Ride or Die. You know what I mean? Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

But wait, is this. Is this, like a very special gay scam episode or is this all random?

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

It's. I mean, shout out to Kaylin, maybe. She gave us a through line here. But I love gay crime.

[Patrick Hines]

Totally. Also, those gays were super hot. Both of them.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yes. And. Come on, Trula. He said, ride or die. We riding and we dying. Love this. So Sandler became romantic involved with Jones, a convicted felon, while they were housed in the same jail unit. Love that for y'. All. Can we do a movie about this? Like, the Notebook? But it's just like the books.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Which one of them was putting money on the books? Which one of them was putting up the It's a Witch Hunt posters in prison? That's what I want to know. It's the real hero of the story.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

So he bonded out of jail months before he illegally used the identity and personal information of two other people to secure $80,000 bond for Jones release. That's love. Love. He said, I gotta get my boo out. I gotta sp.

[Patrick Hines]

This is unbelievable. I love.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

This is like Dog Day afternoon.

[Patrick Hines]

Yes, it is. But I also love that they, like, met, like, for realsies, like, gay love in prison. I support that.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Love this for them. They were out on the yard and they connected. Eyes pumping iron in the sun. This is sexy. This is spicy.

[Patrick Hines]

My God, I'm into this.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

They share ramen. They share ramen together. They make some toilet hooch and they. They cling to their love. Yeah.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

You know, crack open a bottle of toilet wine.

[Patrick Hines]

Yeah. But my thing is like, this is like, they're reaping the benefits the same way. Like, when I was young and not out and I could have, like, boys, I was into sleep over, and my mom just thought they were my friends. You know what I mean? Like, they get to.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

They were also your friends, but you were friends.

[Patrick Hines]

They were also my friends. Yeah, but I'm like, this is great. They get to, like, find each other in prison. Cause they're both dudes.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Love this. So Sanford has been described by authorities as a repeat con artist, another serial entrepreneur, and was initially arrested and charged with running an employment scam. Oh, lovely. Earlier this year, he was also accused of hacking a woman's social media accounts and then posting as her while asking her friends for cash. In December 2019, Sanford pled guilty to two felonies after being accused of using fake checks to pay for sex in his dorm room at Briarcliff University in Iowa.

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my Lord.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

What? Sex workers out here. Ticket checks.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Yeah, right.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I'm sorry. He didn't need to be charged for this. If you a sex worker and you taking checks, you doing it all wrong. Checks.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Yeah.

[Patrick Hines]

Also, like, if you're writing checks to your sex worker, you're also doing that wrong. Like, this is a cash business if ever there was one. Forever. On both sides. On both sides. You know what I mean?

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

It's a cash app. Like, how you going? What you writing on the little byline of the little. The memo. The memo. Like, for, like, what?

[Patrick Hines]

Literally?

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

What?

[Patrick Hines]

Oh, my God. You guys. Keep it cash. Keep it a cash business. Okay, I know.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Come on, guys.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

I don't know. I love this couple. This is Bonnie and Clyde. This is. This is. I know.

[Patrick Hines]

And they're sexy. I'm gonna say it again.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Bill and Clyde. Love it. Love this for y'. All. Y' all on the run. Get them ski masks, make it sexy. Love this for y' all on the run tour. Beyonce and Jay Z could never love it. Well, guys, that brings us to the end of the episode. As always, we ask on this podcast, where would you two like to be found?

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Oh, so that we don't get scammed.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yes. Anything you want to promote anywhere you want people to find you and engage with you.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

Well, you can go to True Crime Obsessed dot com. That's our website where you can, you know, get everything. But we're True Crime obsessed Podcast on Instagram. We are True Crime obsessed. No Ed. On Twitter, I am Jillian with a G. But it's spelled out like that, so G I L, L, I A N W I T H a g on all the things you thought that.

[Patrick Hines]

Was going to be the make your life easier, but I feel like that's made your life harder.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

You know what? They're going to be in my DMs no matter what.

[Patrick Hines]

So I'm just at Patrick Hines underscore on the Instagram. That's where I tell everyone to go. I mean, I'm at Patrick Hines on Twitter, but like, Instagram is like my new fave. It's where I am all the time.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Zachary guys, as always. D I V A L A C I Diva Lacey on all platforms except for TikTok, where I'm Lacy Mosley. If you all episodes of Black Lady Schedule Season 2 are out now on HBO. Max all the episodes for the first season of iCard out on Paramount. Plus get into the maps. Let them scam you. As always, guys, if you want to stitch on your friends and family, just make sure your bag is retired. Scam goddess [e-mail] the merch is up. Get it for the holidays. Give scam gifts to your family. You know, your scamily congregation. Stay scheming. Scam Goddess Scam Goddess stars and is hosted by me, Laci Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. It's produced by Judith Kargbo, engineered by Marina Paiz and researched by K. Kalen Brandt. Stay scheming.

[ExxonMobil Announcer]

What if we could reduce carbon emissions and strengthen the economy? At ExxonMobil, we believe both are possible. As a global leader in carbon capture and storage, we're empowering industries to reduce their emissions all through technologies that are creating job opportunities in America. How's that for a win? Win Exxon Mobil. Let's deliver.

[Jillian Pennsylvalli]

All set for your flight?

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Yep. I've got everything I need. Eye mask, neck pillow, T Mobile headphones. Wait. T Mobile? You bet. Free in flight. Wi Fi 15 off all Hilton brands. I never go anywhere without T Mobile. Same goes from a water bottle, chewing gum, nail clippers. I'm gonna leave you to it.

[Patrick Hines]

Find out how you can experience travel better@t mobile.com Travel qualifying plan required.

[Lacy Mosley (Scam Goddess)]

Wi Fi were available on select US airlines. Deposit and Hilton honors membership required for 15.

[Patrick Hines]

Discount terms and conditions apply.