Fraud Friday: The Con with the “Cure” for Cancer w/ Caleb Hearon

Summary

Scam Goddess Podcast Episode Summary

Podcast Information:

• Title: Scam Goddess
• Hosts: Lacey Mosley (Scam Goddess) & Caleb Herring
• Episode: Fraud Friday: The Con with the “Cure” for Cancer w/ Caleb Herring
• Release Date: January 3, 2025

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Introduction to Fraud Friday

The episode kicks off with Lacey Mosley welcoming listeners to Fraud Friday, a special segment where she revisits classic episodes from the Scam Goddess vault. This particular installment features the dynamic duo of Lacey Mosley and her guest, comedian Caleb Herring, who dives into the intriguing world of historical scams with a comedic twist.

Guest Introduction: Caleb Herring

Caleb Herring is introduced as a multi-talented comedian, writer, and actor known for his work on Netflix’s animated series Human Resources and being featured in Variety’s top 10 comics to watch in 2020. His energetic entrance sets a playful tone for the episode.

Main Topic: Norman Baker – The Charlatan of the Ozarks

The core of the episode revolves around the infamous Norman Baker, dubbed "The Charlatan of the Ozarks." Lacey and Caleb dissect Baker’s elaborate scam, where he falsely proclaimed to have a cure for cancer.

• Early Life and Scheme Initiation:

  • Norman Baker's Background: Born on November 27, 1882, in Muscatine, Iowa, Norman was the youngest of ten children. He left school at 16 to work as a machinist and toolmaker, traveling from town to town.
  • Inspiration and Show Development: Inspired by mental suggestion performances akin to modern-day hypnosis shows, Baker launched his own traveling show featuring a medium named Madame Pearl Tangley. After the original actress quit, he employed a new woman, Teresa Pender, who later became his wife.

• Establishing the Baker Institute:

  • In 1915, Baker established the Baker Institute in Muscatine, falsely positioning it as a legitimate medical facility offering a cancer cure.
  • Misleading Practices: Despite lacking medical credentials, Baker performed live surgeries in parks and marketed his unproven treatments, attracting numerous desperate cancer patients.

• Baker's Radio Empire and Downfall:

  • Radio Show Launch: In 1925, Baker secured a radio license, expanding his influence nationwide through his show KTNT Know the Naked Truth.
  • Controversial Content: His broadcasts began to include anti-Semitic and anti-Catholic rhetoric, alienating listeners and attracting scrutiny.
  • Conflict with the AMA: Increasing tensions with the American Medical Association (AMA) led to a libel lawsuit and claims of assassination attempts, which further tarnished his reputation.
  • Legal Consequences: In 1940, Baker was convicted of mail fraud and served three years in federal prison. Despite multiple arrests and failed ventures, he continued his fraudulent activities until his death in 1958 from cirrhosis of the liver.

Notable Quotes:

• Caleb Herring: “I would not have known any better. I needed to see a bunch of people get scammed on the Internet for me to learn.” ([45:51])
• Lacey Mosley: “Norman promised to use his show to popularize Muscatine across the world, positioning himself as a hero for Muscatine small business owners, as well as its rural community of farmers and laborers.” ([37:10])

Discussion on Modern Scams: The Case of Jolene

Transitioning from historical scams, Lacey introduces a listener's letter from “Jolene,” who describes her attempts to steal flowers from grocery stores as part of a personal experiment.

• Letter Content:

  • Jolene claims to have unintentionally become involved in a “criminal enterprise” by habitually taking free flowers from grocery stores, rationalizing it as rehoming rather than stealing.

• Hosts’ Take:

  • Caleb: Expresses skepticism about Jolene's intentions, questioning the morality of her actions.
  • Lacey: Highlights the psychological aspect, noting how free items often feel more valuable and harder to resist.

Notable Quotes:

• Lacey Mosley: “She said she was doing an experiment. Listen, ... you don't wanna fuck up your bag.” ([24:27])
• Caleb Herring: “I love that for you. I like to take a little bit of a ride sometimes... but I like that a lot for you.” ([04:56])

Reflection on Scam Behavior and Prevention

Throughout the episode, Lacey and Caleb reflect on the nature of scams, exploring why individuals fall for fraudulent schemes and discussing strategies to recognize and avoid them.

• Key Insights:
  • Desperation and Vulnerability: Scammers often exploit the vulnerabilities and desperation of their targets, as seen in Baker’s manipulation of cancer patients.
  • Psychological Tricks: Free offers, like Jolene’s flowers or modern dating scams Caleb nearly fell for, leverage psychological triggers that make scams more effective.
  • Education and Awareness: Understanding historical scams provides valuable lessons for identifying and preventing current and future fraudulent activities.

Closing Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, Lacey and Caleb emphasize the importance of staying informed and vigilant against scams. They encourage listeners to report suspicious activities and share their experiences to help others avoid falling victim to fraud.

Final Quotes:

• Lacey Mosley: “Stay scheming.” ([71:13])
• Caleb Herring: “Stay radioing.” ([71:14])

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Conclusion

This episode of Scam Goddess offers an engaging blend of historical analysis and modern-day scam anecdotes, delivered with humor and sharp insights by Lacey Mosley and Caleb Herring. By dissecting Norman Baker’s elaborate fraud and examining contemporary scams, the hosts provide listeners with both entertainment and valuable lessons on the tactics and psychology behind fraudulent schemes.

Transcript

[Lacey Mosley]

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[Caleb Herring]

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[Lacey Mosley]

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[Caleb Herring]

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[Lacey Mosley]

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[Caleb Herring]

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[Lacey Mosley]

Approval what's Poppin Congregation? It's YA girl Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. Welcome to an episode of Fraud Fridays where we release older episodes from the Scam Goddess vault. That's right, Fraud Fridays is where we bring back your favorite episodes from B Behind the Paywall Enjoy this episode from behind the Paywall and as always, stay scheming. Scams, robbery and fraud scams. CA Rob Scam Goddess what's Poppin Congregation? It's your girl, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess, back with another installment of your favorite podcast about robbery, fraud and all those who practice it. Sometimes we love them, sometimes we hate them. Let's get on the ride. As always, I'm very, yes, excited, extremely elated. For today's guest, we have a hilarious comedian, writer, actor, Twitter celebrity. A if you're not following him on Twitter, then like, how are you getting your yucks for the day? Because my guy is putting out the yuck yuck. You can check out his WR on Netflix's upcoming animated series Human Resources, a spinoff of Big Mouth, which I love, love, love love that show so much. He was in Variety's top 10 comics to watch in 2020, and he is a returning homie of the show. Congregation, please welcome Caleb Herring.

[Caleb Herring]

Ah, I'm back.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes, I love that energy that he I broke in.

[Caleb Herring]

I broke into the building. They said you can't come in. I said, I'm doing the pod. Let me in.

[Lacey Mosley]

He kicked down the doors.

[Caleb Herring]

He kicked down the doors.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes. Security's currently banging outside, but we're going to do the episode and then they're going to esc.

[Caleb Herring]

I walked past all the windows where you can see the white people in flannels doing podcasts, radio shows, whatever's going on over there. Yes, let's go.

[Lacey Mosley]

A white requirement. Well, not for us. We don't have to wear flannels. But for them, you know, they gotta let you know that they're really a podcaster in what other way than a flannel? Well, Caleb, we always ask on this show, what is your relationship with scams? Do you love em? Do you hate em? Any new scams in your life, Any old ones you can talk about and the government won't come knocking?

[Caleb Herring]

Well, last time I was on here, I think I caused mayhem by saying I'm unscammable. I said, I'm not.

[Lacey Mosley]

You didn't try.

[Caleb Herring]

After that, I'm not able to be scared. Well, here's the thing. I almost got scammed recently.

[Lacey Mosley]

No.

[Caleb Herring]

Yes. This. There is a scam that gay men run on dating apps. Okay, well, they might not even be gay men. They're just running it on gay male dating apps where they'll be like, hey, I really want to hook up with you. They'll have all these pictures. It'll. It'll be like catfish proof. You think? Like, this person is not catfishing.

[Lacey Mosley]

I really want to have sex with you. Look at all these real photos of me.

[Caleb Herring]

Look at all these real photos of me. They're on my profile. I got a name and everything.

[Lacey Mosley]

Holding today's newspaper.

[Caleb Herring]

Look. And holding up. You tell me what to hold up, I'll hold it up. It's real. And then, and then they'll be like, I really wanna come over, but I need you to venmo me some gas money.

[Lacey Mosley]

I've heard about this one.

[Caleb Herring]

And I was like, I had a long conversation with this guy. He was like, ask me where I'm from. I'm like, ask him what? He. We're like, really? I kind of got to know him. And then he was like, I need gas money. And I was like, they got me.

[Lacey Mosley]

Look, gas is high. Gas is high. And also, my mother always said, pussy don't deliver. Pussy don't deliver either. Okay? Not for free. Not for free. This ain't post made.

[Caleb Herring]

Let me say something.

[Lacey Mosley]

I pay for this.

[Caleb Herring]

I will always uber someone to me, but I'm never sending money. I'll send you a new. I'll send you a car, but I'm not sending money.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's classy.

[Caleb Herring]

I'm a Gentleman, Yes.

[Lacey Mosley]

Also, like, how dare you try to get on the sex app? Or, you know, people hook up. App people date on there. A lot of people, like, find their partners on Grindr and Tinder, which always surprises me. But, like, how you gonna get on that app? And then be like, I don't got money to go nowhere.

[Caleb Herring]

You got on here like, this, the.

[Lacey Mosley]

App for going places.

[Caleb Herring]

Like, that's how you know it's a scam. That's how you know.

[Lacey Mosley]

How much do they want for gas money?

[Caleb Herring]

They didn't even get that far. They said, I really wanna come over. I need some gas. As soon as I read gas block, I was like. I was like, absol. Not I.

[Lacey Mosley]

Not me. Damn. You was gonna give him a little Chevron with tech ride. You could have googled the prices. And you know how far away they are, right? Did it say, like, five miles? You would have given exactly five miles worth of gas.

[Caleb Herring]

No, I'm not, uh, ever. Never. Scam. That's a scam. I see. But I'm unscammable. Once I see a smell in the air, I'm out.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes. And look, I love that for you. I like to take a little bit of a ride sometimes. Like, I know it's a scam, but I'm like, what y'all doing over here? Like, I'm just curious. I'm the boyer. Let's do a little bit. To me, not too much. But I like that. I like that a lot for you. You're still unscam, then.

[Caleb Herring]

I'm unscamable. I'll never be scammed.

[Lacey Mosley]

I love that. That's the confidence.

[Caleb Herring]

Every time I see an old person getting their pension drained, I'm like, you fool. It would never be me.

[Lacey Mosley]

Please, guys, call your grandparents.

[Caleb Herring]

They're not. They're.

[Lacey Mosley]

They're in danger just for selfish reasons. If you want some of them coins, like, that could be a birthday check for you. Like, why you let me mom get robbed.

[Caleb Herring]

You need to keep it for yourself, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

Think about that.

[Caleb Herring]

Think about you for once.

[Lacey Mosley]

If you don't love your grandparents enough to just call them to chat, you know, at least think about your investment dwindling away.

[Caleb Herring]

Thank you.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay. And they the last one with money when they died. Cause the rest of us gonna be like, it's gonna be a bill.

[Caleb Herring]

Mm.

[Lacey Mosley]

They're gonna be like, oh, you her cousin? Okay, well, she owed. Oh, I have actually never met her in my life.

[Caleb Herring]

I don't know this bitch at all.

[Lacey Mosley]

No. Why did I show up in all black here? Where Am I? Who am I?

[Caleb Herring]

Just like, leaving. I thought this was somebody else's birthday party. I gotta get out of here. Nevermind.

[Lacey Mosley]

But since here you're doing the eulogy, Ms. Moseley. No, no, no, no. I don't know Lacey. No, that's not me.

[Caleb Herring]

No, I'm Lucy. My bad, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

I just be wearing morning clothes, like, everywhere. I love black.

[Caleb Herring]

I'm from New York, that's all.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's a funeral home for funeral L. Oh, yeah. No, I'm in the wrong spot. I thought this was a Wendy's. Y got no spice nuggets. Okay.

[Caleb Herring]

Oh, did you see. Hey, by the way, Wendy's has a. A strawberry Frosty now.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, wait, is it of milk or is it like a.

[Caleb Herring]

Whatever they're doing with the chocolate and vanilla. They're doing now with strawberry.

[Lacey Mosley]

Something new to dip our fries into.

[Caleb Herring]

It's new. You got to check it out.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay, listen, Wendy's be having. Don't sleep on Wendy's. Okay? And them.

[Caleb Herring]

Please don't.

[Lacey Mosley]

They don't sponsor the show. But if they did. Mm mm. Bitch. If it ain't cooked by a little redhead, I don't want it.

[Caleb Herring]

This is what you could have if you pay Lacey, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

Y'all get on that sponsorship, okay? I'll really sell it for y'all. Four for four. Okay? But let's take a quick break for some non scam advertisements. We'll be right back with what's hot and fried. Scams. Look, y'all, I might be an expert in scams, but I am not an expert in everything, okay? And that's why I love Acorns. Because they will recommend a diversified portfolio that fits you and your money goals. Don't we all have money goals? I know. We all making money moves. You don't need to be rich. Acorn lets you invest with the spare money you've got right now. You can start with $5 or even just your spare change. You don't need to feel like financial wellness is impossible, because it's not. Acorns gives you small, simple steps to get you and your money on track. Basically, Acorns does the hard part so you can give your money a chance to grow. I actually use acorns, and I love it. And sometimes I forget that it's there, and I'll go look, and I'll be like, ooh, money. But then I'll leave the money alone, because that's what investment is about. Head to acorns.com goddess or download the Acorns app to Start saving and investing for your future today. Paid non client endorsement compensation provides incentive to positive promote Acorns Tier 2 compensation provided investing involves risk. Acorn Advisors LLC and SEC registered investment advisor. View important [e-mail] Goddess y'all, we made it. We made it through another holiday season and personally, I think it's time for us to treat ourselves. And y'all know when I want to treat myself that I'm going to Quince because I can treat myself without hurting my poor, poor bank account. All Quint Items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands because they partner directly with top factories to cut the cost and the middleman. And we love that. And of course they use premium fabrics and finishes for that luxury feel in every single piece. And right now I am obsessed with the organic heavyweight fleece. I just got it in the Concord and in the tan. Like sometimes I talk about quint like a family member. It's wild because it's so cozy on my body. That is why I love quints. Treat yourself this winter without the luxury price tag. Go to quint.com goddess for 365 day returns. Pl plus free shipping on your order. That's Q-U-I-N c e.com goddess to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com goddess cons and we are back with the unflappable, unscammable Caleb Herring. And we are in what's hot and fraud. This is where we read your letters and get some warnings about popping scams in the zeitgeist and on the streets or scams that you've run yourself. As always, snitch on your and your [e-mail] just make sure your scam is retired because we don't wanna what? Yes. Fuck up your bag. All right, Caleb, I need a fake name for this person won't care about gender.

[Caleb Herring]

Jolene.

[Lacey Mosley]

Jolene, Jolene, Jolene, Jolene, Jolene, Jolene. The baddest bitch.

[Caleb Herring]

We should start a band. That was kind of hot. That was not nothing.

[Lacey Mosley]

That was not nothing.

[Caleb Herring]

That was not nothing.

[Lacey Mosley]

It was a little bit of something. Okay? It was giving something. Listen, the baddest bitch out there, Jolene. I'm surprised there's not more women named Jolene after Dolly Parton made that song. You know you a bad bitch with Dolly Parton calling you. Like, please don't take my man.

[Caleb Herring]

Leave my man alone.

[Lacey Mosley]

Cause you can. We all know you can. Bitch.

[Caleb Herring]

I leave him for you. I know he'd leave me for you.

[Lacey Mosley]

Are you interested in women, Jolene? We can all be together. I'm just saying share them with me a little bit. Like, let me get Tuesdays and Sundays with my man and you can have him for the rest. Cause you deserve. Jolene was a bad bitch. That's how you know you a bad bitch. She wasn't even coming. She said I gotta come to her as a woman. Like, Jolene.

[Caleb Herring]

Woman to woman, on the track, with so many sex.

[Lacey Mosley]

You can have them all. Just let me have mine.

[Caleb Herring]

You couldn't pay me a billion dollars to write a song about how someone's able to take my man. There's no way. I would never write a song being like, I know you can do it.

[Lacey Mosley]

We're not getting this out of you in court.

[Caleb Herring]

No, you couldn't torture the CIA at Guantanamo Bay. Couldn't get that information out of me.

[Lacey Mosley]

Let's just waterboard you. Like, who is the bad bitch?

[Caleb Herring]

It's just me, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

It's just me.

[Caleb Herring]

There's no one.

[Lacey Mosley]

I'm the baddest bitch. We gonna be here all night. Oh, Lord, no. I feel like. Listen, sometimes you gotta make some bargains and some compromises. You gotta. I know where you at in life, okay? Jolene definitely got a bbl. You know what I mean?

[Caleb Herring]

Get out of here.

[Lacey Mosley]

Jolie eyelashes. Always done.

[Caleb Herring]

Everyone's getting rid of their bbls.

[Lacey Mosley]

They are.

[Caleb Herring]

No more bbls. No more fake tits.

[Lacey Mosley]

The scam is that we're going back into heroin chic.

[Caleb Herring]

We're getting back to thin. Horrible for me.

[Lacey Mosley]

Horrible for me. Too horrible for me. If y'all think I'm about to put the top of my pussy out in some jeans, y'all are sorely mistaken. I will never buy a low rise ever again. I suffered. I struggled.

[Caleb Herring]

We've been through it, okay?

[Lacey Mosley]

Britney Spears was popping when I was a kid. We was all out here with the top of our little coochie out. I ain't doing it no more, no more.

[Caleb Herring]

And you were a cheerleader. Yes. I know. You were into Britney.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes. Oh, I love. I Stan. I Stan Brit. Yeah, she's an icon. But no, never again.

[Caleb Herring]

Never again. We can't go back.

[Lacey Mosley]

But they trying to make us go back. The TikTok girlies, even Kim K, she's looking quite shook and slender.

[Caleb Herring]

They're going back to it, and it's bad. It's always been fat's never been in. But at least we were closer when people were like, I like fat parts. That was Tough.

[Lacey Mosley]

We were moving the needle too.

[Caleb Herring]

There was a direction, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

We did ass, we did titties. I was. It's like, okay, now give us stomachs. One stomach and arms. We were so close to stomachs and arms.

[Caleb Herring]

If big stomachs and arms come in, everyone's done for except for me.

[Lacey Mosley]

Woo. Listen, I feel bad for the scam of people thinking that body types are trendy. Because to me, like, and I'm happy that I'm insulated in blackness in this way of like, I never felt weird or bad about being thick. I never really wanted to be like super thin. And then when thick was in because white women were doing it, it was like, oh, okay, cute. Y'all, welcome to the party. But we been chilling over here. We been good over here. Mix a lot has held us down in the community. Okay, I like big butts. I cannot lie. We was fine.

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

But now I just feel bad for young people or anybody who thinks that your body should be a trend. Cause that's weird.

[Caleb Herring]

Well, it's also inherently limited. So whatever you got going on, whatever's natural to you, if it's in for now, it won't be in later. So it's like, that is a scam, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

Like, if you wearing a choker or like, oh, we wearing flannels or, oh, you know, a high rise denim or whatever's in, you can take that on and off your body. But if you gotta go to a surgeon to be like, hey, this is the new. Can I show you this Vogue, right? Page four. They said this is the body fall.

[Caleb Herring]

Also, y'all do not have money like that. No, normal people do not have money like this to be doing surgeries on and off, doing this, that and the other thing. It's like you just got to go with what you got.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yo, we got to pray for Dr. Miami. What's his sales? Did you see his tweet where when the hurricanes were happening, he was like, y'all, come get y'all bbls for the hurricane.

[Caleb Herring]

Well, I will tell you, we are recording this the day after the Chiefs just beat the Tampa Bay Buccaneers badly. And I'm feeling bad for them cuz they got the hurricane going on and they're getting stomped in the. I'm like, it's really tough in Florida right now. Everything, the elements, The BBL surgeon is on the run, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

Football, everything.

[Caleb Herring]

It's bad out there.

[Lacey Mosley]

It is not to say that Florida does not deserve whatever is going on because Florida is a mess.

[Caleb Herring]

Ron Desantis, you deserve some trouble.

[Lacey Mosley]

Him and Greg Abbott. I'm from Texas and I'm like, if we don't get rid of Greg Abbott, bitch ass. I don't know what to do.

[Caleb Herring]

I will beat the hell out of Greg Abbott.

[Lacey Mosley]

If I. It's time to fight him or see Greg Abbott. It's on.

[Caleb Herring]

I don't care.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's time to fight him.

[Caleb Herring]

Every time I go to Texas, I try to run into him. Cause I'll fight him. I mean it.

[Lacey Mosley]

As you should. He deserves an ass whooping.

[Caleb Herring]

I'm not worried about his situation. I will fight Greg Abbott.

[Lacey Mosley]

These hands are E for everyone, okay? Equal opportunity beat down. Cause that bitch deserves. I can't believe him. The unmitigated gall of that man. Bitch.

[Caleb Herring]

Anybody to be that ugly, to be that ugly and that evil inside and out. You gotta pick.

[Lacey Mosley]

Or at least just tell us you evil and like, really, like, step it up. Like, I want a naked cat that you stroking all the time. I want you to put your pinky up to your face about $1 million. Like, be like, stop. I'm gonna right women. You don't have rights. Yeah, he's.

[Caleb Herring]

Well, he is doing that part.

[Lacey Mosley]

He is doing that part. He's on that as well. And when it comes to evil demons, look, he's up there. Bezelbub is like, greg, Abby, Greg, Abby, Greg, Abby. Please don't take my job. The devil's like, I work hard, but woo. Get Greg. Greg. Woo. Shit. He's shooting in the gym.

[Caleb Herring]

See, it's the off season work.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right?

[Caleb Herring]

It's the off season work.

[Lacey Mosley]

Say it's like, chill, Greg. You coming to hell? You got a ticket. You don't even have to work this hard. We have a spot for you. We got parking and everything. Greg, you in hell. It's cool. You don't even gotta do nothing else. But all right. So Jolene, Jolene says hi to my favorite ear friend. What's up, Jolene? Love our symbiotic parasocial relationship. So this is a scam that I fell into and just couldn't stop. I make it a habit to go to the 24 hour grocery store late, as I hate waiting in lines and the general mayhem of the grocery store at rush hour. So, Jolene, I'm gonn. I'll stop you up top first because the first sentence is giving me scammer, not you. You fell into. Listen, I fell into a crime. I tripped.

[Caleb Herring]

I tripped and accidentally backed into a little bit of a criminal enterprise. Oops.

[Lacey Mosley]

Wire fraud. Oh, I can't get up I hate.

[Caleb Herring]

That I did this for years, but.

[Lacey Mosley]

It was an accident, you know? You know how I accidentally bought my.

[Caleb Herring]

Third home from it? I accidentally got a boat.

[Lacey Mosley]

Trippy. A mistake. Oh, my gosh. I came, I went into the boat store, and I was like, here's money. And they was like, here's a boat. It was wild.

[Caleb Herring]

How did this happen? I woke up with a. I woke up with a boat.

[Lacey Mosley]

Y'all know how y'all be waking up with a boat. So Jolene says I have nothing more than fresh flowers on my dining room table. Classy. Okay. Keeping them fresh. One night, I was a little out of it. Okay, you was a little out of it. Jolene, Jolene, get to the scam. You done trip to fail you a little out of it.

[Caleb Herring]

I awoke in a haze.

[Lacey Mosley]

It was just money around me.

[Caleb Herring]

I was five years into a bank robbery scheme.

[Lacey Mosley]

Safes just open everywhere. Y'all know how y'all be. Y'all have amnesia. Robbery amnesia. So one night, I was a little out of it and did not put my flowers down on the conveyor belt. Okay. But rather held them in my arms as I paid. I got to the car and realized that I had not paid for the flowers. Hmm. Score.

[Caleb Herring]

Now, this better get way more interesting very soon.

[Lacey Mosley]

I don't know.

[Caleb Herring]

Cause if it turns out that she's stealing a bundle of flowers every week, I'm, like, unimpressed.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay, See, Kayla, I'm not judging you. Jolene. I like this so far. So it says. I noticed that I loved the flowers even a little more when they were free. That's. Oh, bitch, things do be hitting different when they free. Okay.

[Caleb Herring]

In her defense, it's different. It is different.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's different. You ever have some free food blessing?

[Caleb Herring]

Right?

[Lacey Mosley]

Just tastes different than food.

[Caleb Herring]

You paid for one topping pizza from a pizza from an office pizza party. It's so different.

[Lacey Mosley]

You ain't wrong. Cheese pizza. And I'm not even cheese, bitch. I'm a pepperoni, pineapple, jalapeno. I don't care. Y'all can fight me out there in the streets.

[Caleb Herring]

Altogether you doing those.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes. It's a culinary delight. Okay. The citrus from the pineapple, the savoriness from the pepperoni. The spice from the jalapeno.

[Caleb Herring]

I'm actually surprised I would eat that slice.

[Lacey Mosley]

I would try that thin crust. Yes. I love it. But so I understand, when it's free, it's for me. And it hits a little harder and a little better. She said they smell sweeter, bloom more beautifully. I began to Do a sociology experiment. The branding on this theft.

[Caleb Herring]

This. Yeah, I was gonna say bitch. I hope you work in marketing. Cause you have a gift.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right? I've never seen a scam rebranded so many times.

[Caleb Herring]

She said, I fell into this love for the flowers.

[Lacey Mosley]

I tripped and fell into theft. And then it was a sociology experimen. Right?

[Caleb Herring]

Because I'm a scientist. I'm a social scientist.

[Lacey Mosley]

I'm a scientist.

[Caleb Herring]

So I had to check it out and see just for like, human nature and like humans.

[Lacey Mosley]

Good. Some scientists research Covid vaccines. I research how theft of flowers.

[Caleb Herring]

I research what would happen if I saved $10 every time I went to the store.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's going great. Okay, so Jolene did say which sounds better than stealing in parentheses which. Yes, it's cuter. You was doing an experiment. Okay, Scientist Jolene. So scientist Jolene says, here are my findings. Okay. All right, we got findings. The later you go to the. The less the employees care and pay attention. Amen. I love a quiet quip. Also, women would always spot the flowers and charge me, whereas men would not. The powers of middle age invisibility in my favor. Oh, damn, Jolene, don't say that you was stealing the flowers. Cause you wasn't a baddie. I don't think it's that. I think that men cashiers, in my experience, I'm not saying it's all if you out there ringing up shit and doing great. But, like, I won't lie. I do discriminate a little bit when I go to the grocery store. Like, if I see a woman, I'm going to. Even if the woman's line is longer, I'm to her line before I go to the man's checkout line. And almost always I get out faster. Yeah, because like, women in the grocery store be like, boop, boop, boop, boop.

[Caleb Herring]

Scoo, scoo, scoo. It's like they're throwing the shit down the thing, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

Give me your ID Boop, boop. Paper, plastic. Hurry up, bitch. Like, they're about that action where the men be like, hey, what's up? It's Tuesday. How much them apples cost? Did they tell you over there? Let me mosey on back and check. Like, it's just like a very lackadaisical energy.

[Caleb Herring]

Also, she really is a. She's a genius writer because she's framed this whole thing so beautifully. And then just when I think I'm not on her side anymore, she says, and by the way, I'm completely undesirable. That's what got you back. I'm like, okay, well, that's sad as hell. I would steal too. If nobody's looking at me at the grocery store.

[Lacey Mosley]

I feel like she's probably not under. You know how people just be talking about themselves, you know, like, an older woman did say this to me once when I think I got catcalled and we were out together, they were like, well, one day, you know, they gonna stop yelling. And I was, what?

[Caleb Herring]

Yo, miss. You're gonna miss this.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, it's creepy and uncomfortable right now, but when they stop completely, you'll be like, wait a minute. Why did nobody call me a sexy bitch and asked me to lift up my skirt?

[Caleb Herring]

Honestly, I don't ever get scared by, like, being in a city. I always get scared when I'm out in the middle of the country at night. It's the quiet that scares me. That's what they're talking about. They're like, when it gets quiet, that's when you know it's over.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, no. Yeah, you're right about that. I do like the. So Jolene noticed that the men were not checking for the flowers. If I could, I would always pick the line with the male employee. I got bold, holding sometimes two dozens of bright orange or yellow roses. Nothing orange.

[Caleb Herring]

Orange roses.

[Lacey Mosley]

I know.

[Caleb Herring]

Oof. Still better.

[Lacey Mosley]

Is that in nature? No, they cook them up. It's giving Nickelodeon.

[Caleb Herring]

They cooked it. They cooked those in the lab.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's how we got a new flavor of flour.

[Caleb Herring]

It's called orange burst.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's a rose.

[Caleb Herring]

These are Fanta oranges. What the hell?

[Lacey Mosley]

There are some orange roses that be bussing. Cause my friend actually has some orange roses right now on her dining room table. And they're like, light orange, and then the tops of them are like this kind of burgundy red.

[Caleb Herring]

And they're beautiful.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, it's like the flower got highlights. Like, the flower got a BBL. Dr. Miami was like, we do flowers too.

[Caleb Herring]

We do flowers now.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, we've gotten into botany. You want some flowers with some fat asses? We got them for you. Okay. Just get here before the hurricane or during. Just as long as we can open the door. We'll get you in.

[Caleb Herring]

Oh, my God. Okay, so she's stealing. What?

[Lacey Mosley]

She's stealing two Dozens. Dozens and dozens. Okay, flowers is busting. It got so ridiculous that I had fresh flowers every week like you said. Caleb, I. Eventually, after a few years, let's be real, told the trusted friend about my scam, and they gently pointed out that I was stealing. Morality buzz kill. I know. That's right. Get rid of your friend. Get rid of her. Okay? That's if y'all was on the way to brunch. You gotta stop the car on i95 and be like, get out.

[Caleb Herring]

Like, definitely get rid of the friend. But also, what do you mean pointed out? You weren't aware. You were like, oh, I have this great deal at the store where I kick the whee cooking cashiers and walk out without paying. It's like, yeah, babe.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, that's.

[Caleb Herring]

You're thieving.

[Lacey Mosley]

But I love that for you, the flowers is gonna die anyway. Like, somebody might as well give them a good home. You were just rehoming the flowers, adopting them.

[Caleb Herring]

You know what makes a big difference in this story as well? And I don't know if we know or not. Is it a corporate grocery store or a small time grocery store?

[Lacey Mosley]

It's gotta be corporate because it's 24 hours. Some mom pop grocery store. Them, they open 24 hours. That means they working. They employees rob a.

[Caleb Herring]

Rob them Blind rob and blind steal everything. Yes.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay. You're making stocking less easier for them. Like, yeah, just theft.

[Caleb Herring]

Get it out of there.

[Lacey Mosley]

I'm on board. I'm fully on board. I have since changed my ways and now have artificial roses on my table to curb my bad habit. I can't promise that I will never test my theory again, but God bless unobservant men if they won't buy me flowers. Please allow me to gift myself. Joan.

[Caleb Herring]

She's a queen.

[Lacey Mosley]

She's a queen.

[Caleb Herring]

She's a queen. There's no way around it.

[Lacey Mosley]

An icon, the moment. And I love that you had to, like, take yourself to flower theft rehab and get some fake flowers so that you could stop your itch.

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah. And I'm just gonna say artificial flowers cannot be the answer here. Let's just buy some normal flowers. Leave the ugly artificial ones off the table. Just buy the flowers. I think you're okay.

[Lacey Mosley]

Keep stealing from the grocery store. It's not like you weren't purchasing things. You was ringing something up in the cashier line. You weren't just walking out with the flowers. I feel like this is a net positive. Grocery stores are marking shit up in anyway.

[Caleb Herring]

They also account for. They account for it. Every big retail chain accounts for a certain amount of stuff being stolen every year. We need to steal from them.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. It's called shrink. Okay? And at least that's the retail official term. It's called shrink. So they account for people thieving and, you know, we don't Wanna fuck up the budget, y'all. We want them to hit their quarterly, so y'all gotta let.

[Caleb Herring]

We have to steal from these places. It's actually moral.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, we. It's not even. Cause we want to. It's like people could lose their jobs.

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

What if. What if the store doesn't need a security guard anymore because there's no theft? That's a layoff. Yeah, I'm just trying to keep people employed.

[Caleb Herring]

We're job creators when we steal.

[Lacey Mosley]

Scientists. Job creators.

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah. You know, feminists. There was a threat of feminism in there.

[Lacey Mosley]

There was a threat of feminism in there.

[Caleb Herring]

A big one. Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

This is iconic. Write the book, Jolene. Write the book.

[Caleb Herring]

Write the book. Why not?

[Lacey Mosley]

You talking about, you know, men and how they ignore women and their needs? You know, it's powerful stuff in here.

[Caleb Herring]

She said if men won't buy me flowers, I have the right to steal them. That's a book. Yeah, that's a book.

[Lacey Mosley]

I will buy that book. That sounds empowering.

[Caleb Herring]

Yes.

[Lacey Mosley]

You know, for women in whatever stage in their life. Men as well. Anybody. Non binary icons. We could all get into this book.

[Caleb Herring]

Non binary people are stealing.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, they are.

[Caleb Herring]

I know most of them and I'll tell you, they're stealing. They're stealing.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's usually hair color.

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah, they're stealing hair color and then they're doing the cut themselves and it shows. I'm telling you, these people are stealing and I love it. Those are my friends.

[Lacey Mosley]

You had a tweet about a non binary party not too long ago.

[Caleb Herring]

I said this event is non binary people only and don't try to sneak in. We will be checking haircuts at the.

[Lacey Mosley]

DOE at the door. Okay, I know.

[Caleb Herring]

I know a non binary people. When I see a they them, I'm like, that haircut is they them.

[Lacey Mosley]

I see it right, and we will know it.

[Caleb Herring]

Oh yeah, I know.

[Lacey Mosley]

I love that for us. So, guys, we're take a quick break for some non scam advertisements. We'll be right back with historic hoodwinks Robbery. Netcredit is here to say yes because you're more than a credit score. Apply in minutes and get a decision as soon as the same day. Loans offered by Netcredit or lending partner banks and serviced by Netcredit. Application subject to review and approval. Learn [e-mail] partners.

[Caleb Herring]

NetCredit credit to the people Auto insurance can all seem the same until it comes time to use it. So don't get stuck paying more for less coverage. Switch to USA Auto insurance and you could start saving money in no time. Get a quote. Today, restrictions apply.

[Lacey Mosley]

USAA and fraud. And we are back. And it's time for historic hoodwinks. This is where I will regale Caleb with the famous con caper group of criminals. We'll see if we like him. We'll see if we hate him. Get his opinions throughout. Today we're talking about Norman Baker. Norman Baker was a vaudevillian, business owner and radio show host who claimed to have a cure for cancer. The charlatan of the Ozarks. That's in quotes. That's what they were calling him. Ozarks. Watch out. Jason Bateman. You could never. There was already the charlatan of the Ozarks.

[Caleb Herring]

Wait, did y'all pick this for me special? I'm from. I went to college in the Ozarks. Did you know that?

[Lacey Mosley]

I did. I did know that. No, I didn't know that. But look at that, kids. We're gonna say I did. Look at this. Look at me.

[Caleb Herring]

A journalist I love.

[Lacey Mosley]

So this is perfect. So the Charlatan of the Ozarks created a career with a personality that capitalized off people's fear and shock. Sounds like the Republican Party, right?

[Caleb Herring]

Literally. Would be president right now, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

Could be. So Norman's early life. Norman Baker was born on November 27th in 1882. So probably not the Ozarks that you knew in college.

[Caleb Herring]

It's the same one. It's the same one. Things don't change down there.

[Lacey Mosley]

What do you mean? No, it's the exact same Ozarks.

[Caleb Herring]

It's the exact same thing.

[Lacey Mosley]

He was born in Muscatine, Iowa. Okay. He was the youngest of ten children. Ten? Oh, your parents was.

[Caleb Herring]

Oh my God.

[Lacey Mosley]

Ten children.

[Caleb Herring]

They used to do it like that back then.

[Lacey Mosley]

Couldn't. Not 10, not 10.

[Caleb Herring]

I'm taking three.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. And then after that, I'm be like, so where. So where you going after this? I'mma had a baby and be like, okay, the nearest fire station. Okay. Cuz 10. 10 is too many. That's too many kids. But now I guess you have a small army of employees though, because, you know, in the 1800s, they was definitely putting them babies in the coal mine or wherever.

[Caleb Herring]

Ye. They were definitely down there coughing up soot, getting stuff done, milking the cows.

[Lacey Mosley]

I saw a viral tweet. I wish I knew who it was by, but it was like, you know, all the kids were banned from doing the coal mines in like 1920, and now they're all playing Roblox and it was like, the children yearn for the mines.

[Caleb Herring]

They wanna go back.

[Lacey Mosley]

They wanna go back to the mines. Okay, so Norman left school at the age of 16 and began working as a machinist. I don't know what that is. He traveled from town to town, working as a die and tool maker. Okay, this is him. He looked like he had coin.

[Caleb Herring]

Cause, yeah, he looks nice. And he looks nice and rich.

[Lacey Mosley]

Look at this photo. This is giving. Like, he probably had to pose for that. And then homie was like, underneath the sheet.

[Caleb Herring]

Oh, yeah, they're behind the blanket with the big ass. Like.

[Lacey Mosley]

But he posing, though. He was like, I hate. I had to do it to him, you know, I had to do it.

[Caleb Herring]

It's not personal. It's just business, y'all. I'm sorry I look so good.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's me, Norman. He got spectacles on his eyes. They had. They had eyeglasses back.

[Caleb Herring]

He looks like a combination of Walt Disney and Colonel Sanders. Is. That's what he looks like.

[Lacey Mosley]

And I love this for him. What a look. Okay. One day, Norman's life changed forever when he witnessed a mental suggestion performance by Professor Flint. Note this was similar to the Mentalist show, where people pretend to be mind readers and communicate with spirits and hypnotize people, et cetera.

[Caleb Herring]

Okay.

[Lacey Mosley]

So he ran into Criss angel of the 1800s and was like, wait a.

[Caleb Herring]

Minute, I'm stealing that.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right? So inspired, Norman produced his own traveling show starring a medium named Madame Pearl Tangley. Okay. When the original Madame Pearl actress quit, so he had employed a woman to be the bad bitch. So we're looking at a flyer right now. It's giving old. It says Madame Pearl. I guess Madame was mme. They had a short for it.

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

And it says, complete instructions in mentalism with a revised list of dreams. And then it's got another photo of her just being a bad bitch. The price is $0.25 for you to learn mentally.

[Caleb Herring]

I would not be going to this.

[Lacey Mosley]

I would. It's the 1800s, bitch. What else are we doing?

[Caleb Herring]

Probably dying at 32 of, like, cholera. I don't know. What. I don't know. I don't know what happened back then.

[Lacey Mosley]

Shit. In between the typhoid, I'm get in here and see what the Mentalist talking about. This is entertainment. Have you ever done a. Like, have you ever had a hypnotist, like, try to do hypnotizing on you?

[Caleb Herring]

No, but you know what I did two nights ago in la? I went to a charity event. I'm very charitable, fellas. Hit me. Very, very philanthropic fellas. And they had a magician there. And he. He. He memorized every zip code in the United States.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay?

[Caleb Herring]

He started asking people, tell me your zip code. And then someone would say, like, oh, 90028 or whatever. And he'd be like, Washington Heights, Maryland. And he knew every single one.

[Lacey Mosley]

Is that magic?

[Caleb Herring]

I was like, that's not magic. This is. This is autism. That's like, the ability to memorize like, that is absolutely not magic.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's a beautiful mind, for sure.

[Caleb Herring]

It's a beautiful mind that I'm jealous of. But, like, it's not magical.

[Lacey Mosley]

And, like, how you. How do you. What's the. You know, punchlines for magic are like the flowers? Or is this your card? Or they pull the coin out your ear when you guess where they from? You, like, throw some glitter in the air or something, like, you're from Provost, Utah. Da. Da. Like, what's the magic part of it?

[Caleb Herring]

It wasn't magic at all. And people were freaking out for it. And I was like, he's just. He memorized the list.

[Lacey Mosley]

He was like, what's your area code? 214. DFW, Metroplex. Dun dun.

[Caleb Herring]

There was music, and it was. I will say it was a good listen, despite myself.

[Lacey Mosley]

Then he did his job. I once went to. In colleges, they like to have, you know, events for, like, the freshmen and for, you know, just like, student morale events. Cause you were part of a scam going to college. You paying thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars for a degree that probably you not gonna get your money back on. So they gotta keep it spicy. They're like, yeah, you paying thousands. But look, we got a magician at popcorn tonight, so. Okay, come on over. Yeah, you gonna be a crippling debt for the rest of your life, but get into this popcorn, bitch. We got butter too.

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

And I remember we had a magician and. And if you didn't pretend that you were getting hypnotized, he would kick you off stage. That's how they kept people on and with the scam. So I was up there like, ooh.

[Caleb Herring]

I know you're not gonna lose stage time. Exactly. I know Lazy will do whatever it takes to stay on that stage.

[Lacey Mosley]

Whatever it takes. They're like, you're a cat. I was like, meow. I was like, friskies, Friskies. Get the start licking my hand, bitch. I want this stage time. Literally no payment, nothing else. Just.

[Caleb Herring]

I'll do whatever it takes to.

[Lacey Mosley]

To be seen.

[Caleb Herring]

I got so mad when I was in College, they had a. What you're talking about? Where they were like, it's this scammer. I'm paying you thousands and thousands of dollars. They had a Coke machine in the student union where if you gave it a hug, it gave you a free Coke. I was like, that's it. I've had enough. Give me my money back.

[Lacey Mosley]

What? And I still gotta work for the Coke. I gotta give my hug.

[Caleb Herring]

I had to hug the machine. It was crazy. It was truly crazy. And if you didn't hug it tight enough, it wouldn't give you the Coke. I was like, this is fucking crazy. Give me my money.

[Lacey Mosley]

You still had to do it, right?

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah. You had to give it love. It was really new.

[Lacey Mosley]

That feels. I don't want to have to do foreplay with a mach to get a Coca Cola.

[Caleb Herring]

It was really scary.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. The capitalism's gone too far.

[Caleb Herring]

I've had sex that's worse than Coca Cola. Though I will say, haven't we all?

[Lacey Mosley]

And I added a Mexican Coke. Definitely has sex worse than a Coca Cola.

[Caleb Herring]

What is it about those bottles of Coke that is just. It's heroin.

[Lacey Mosley]

And they like it stays harder longer that Mexican Coke. Beyond that extends. Cause you put that motherfucker in the fridge, the next day, you still be.

[Caleb Herring]

When I pop the cap on one of those things, I'm like. I'm dancing in my chair like fucking Pooh Bear.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, right. You see the.

[Caleb Herring]

I'm excited.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's jizzing up. The little air bubbles out, the little tickling your nose. That's an experience.

[Caleb Herring]

Okay, we gotta cut Lacey's mic, y'all. Somebody do something. She said that the Coke is jizzing.

[Lacey Mosley]

I'm like, woo, yeah. That's the only thing I want on my face. Anyway, so the original madam who was helping Norman out with the scam, she quit. She said, I have enough of this. I'm out. She was replaced by a woman named Teresa Pender, who a year later became Norman's wife.

[Caleb Herring]

Uh.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, I love that.

[Caleb Herring]

Messy.

[Lacey Mosley]

He was like, I got a job for you, bad bitch. Also, would you like to be my wife? In a time where women have nothing and can own zero things, and you.

[Caleb Herring]

Get to work for me, this sounds.

[Lacey Mosley]

Like I'm trying to be my maid with sex. So Norman continued to run his show successfully for several years before he invented the tangly air calipy. And we have a video, a portable organ run by air pressure that could be heard for a quarter of a mile. So this like the original, like, bass speakers.

[Caleb Herring]

He was like, he had these on the front yard for the cookout, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

You know, the girls were coming. They were like, where that sound coming from? They having a function. Look at this thing. That sounds terrifying.

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah. Not quality at all.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, goodness. Oh, turn it off.

[Caleb Herring]

Sorry.

[Lacey Mosley]

To him, it's giving Pennywise.

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah, Absolutely.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's like, that's definitely what happens right before the. The Clown at the Circus murders. You like that sound?

[Caleb Herring]

That's what you hear when you see your sailboat has gone down the drain and you're about to go look for it, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

But in the 1800s, I guess they was throwing ass to this. Like, this was a bop.

[Caleb Herring]

They were in the club.

[Lacey Mosley]

They were in the club.

[Caleb Herring]

They were backing it up.

[Lacey Mosley]

Get some trikes off on that. You could definitely. It could be a moment. So in 1915, he quit touring and returned to Muscatine to manufacture his invention full time. That same year, he divorced Theresa. Damn.

[Caleb Herring]

Damn. Damn. It's like that. It's like that, though.

[Lacey Mosley]

Teresa was your bottom bitch. She was holding you down being a fake medium. And then you just gonna get rid of her as soon as. Yo, your fucking twerk piano pops.

[Caleb Herring]

Once the piano pops, it's over.

[Lacey Mosley]

Damn people are expendable.

[Caleb Herring]

You gotta remember this.

[Lacey Mosley]

Damn. In addition to his incredibly successful manufacturing business, Norman ran a corresponding art school and created pamphlets for aspiring illusionists and mediums. So he was like, I got the school of scams.

[Caleb Herring]

This man was empty inside. He has too many businesses to be well. I know this man was not. This man was not healthy, Right?

[Lacey Mosley]

He leaving his wife all willy nilly. Things were. Things were wild. So in 1925, Norman had another change of career when he convinced the Muscatine Chamber of Commerce to build a radio station for his radio show, KTNT Know the Naked Truth. So now he was like, let me get into propaganda radio.

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah. This man has an insatiable hunger for business.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right? It's giving chaotic evil.

[Caleb Herring]

It's absolutely chaos. And like I said, he looks like. And y'all gotta look this picture up. He looks like Colonel Sanders mixed with Walt Disney. That's an evil look. That's an evil look.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. That look says, I love money. It's giving Mr. Krabs he looks.

[Caleb Herring]

He looks like money, money, money, money, money. You remember in get out when they showed the video of the grandpa who invented the procedure?

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes.

[Caleb Herring]

That's what this man is giving me.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, he does look like he would invent a procedure like that.

[Caleb Herring]

He's giving very, very malevolent white guy energy. Get him out of here.

[Lacey Mosley]

So, right. Norman promised to use his show to popularize Muscatine across the world, positioning himself as a hero for Muscatine small business owners, as well as its rural community of farmers and laborers. So he was like, I'm gonna put Muscatine on the map, okay? We about to be the new New York City, okay? Bitch like Muscatine, okay? The bitches will live so they gonna make a song in Muscatine. Muscatine. They ain't got no concrete jungle what is just dirt paved where dreams are made of Truly nothing you can't do Also, there's nothing to do.

[Caleb Herring]

There's nothing to do except for start a bunch of businesses, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

So though it was only licensed at 500 watts, which affects how far the radio signal could be sent, the station was often at 10,000 watts, making it a national radio station. So you might turn on the am, FM and get Norman in your ear, that new flavor. So Norman's show offered a platform for his homespun, uneducated and spontaneous commentary about many subjects, including TB testing, President Hoover, health matters, and the farmer's plight.

[Caleb Herring]

I know he was anti vax.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, for sure.

[Caleb Herring]

I know he was anti vax, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

It's giving. Like, if you get the vaccine, your balls swell up, and then your wife or your fiance leaves you at the altar.

[Caleb Herring]

This also. The parallels to Donald Trump are truly insane, right? Like, he's like this, like, shifty rich businessman who has, like, multiple wives, and he's making a new venture off of telling farmers their plight. It's like, this is.

[Lacey Mosley]

And he never worked on nobody's farm. No, he wasn't. No O's. Okay?

[Caleb Herring]

This is crazy.

[Lacey Mosley]

He also used to sell his products, and Norman became very wealthy. Duh. We saw his photo. We knew he became wealthy. It was giving wealth. Though initially the show attracted many listeners, Norman began to alienate people after increasing often anti Semitic and anti Catholic character assassinations against individuals and organizations that he disagreed with. So people were like, oh, this is kind of a bop, right? Like, farming is hard. You know, Like, I wonder what he.

[Caleb Herring]

Thinks about Jewish people. And then they found out, and they were like, you know what? Ooh, it's not looking good. It's not looking good.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's not looking good. We're gonna have to turn that off.

[Caleb Herring]

That's how it always goes, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

You enjoy something. And then that's how I feel like it always goes for, like, viral white people at times. Like, like, I remember the Texas bee lady. I was like, oh, I'm into These bees. And then, and then there's always a little part of my brain that's like, they probably racist.

[Caleb Herring]

Yes, yes.

[Lacey Mosley]

Like, I see a cute little white boy and he's like giving out lollipops for people in need. And I'm like, they probably racist every time.

[Caleb Herring]

It's also like somebody who has like kind of a funny perspective. They get famous on the Internet or something now and then within three weeks, they're like, here's why there's only two genders. And you're like, all right, well, that's that. We had fun while. That's it, man.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's how I feel about J.K. rowling. Because, bro, when I found out she became like not a billionaire anymore because she was, you know, giving away money and being philanthropic. And she talked about how she was on the British, like, welfare system or like social programs and how helpful they were to her and how she loves paying tax. Cause I was like an icon, a bad bitch. She did all this shit and then for some reason she just came out one day and was like, trans people, odd people. And I was like, where is this coming from, jk, let's call it.

[Caleb Herring]

Also, for a bitch who was like homeless and wrote Harry Potter on the back of like a McDonald's sack, for her to be like, the biggest problem is trans people. I'm like, you have lost it, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

Also, bitch, didn't you come out and tell us Dumbledore was gay? Like, which is it, sis?

[Caleb Herring]

Well, she did have also the Jewish banker character in Harry Potter. You remember those? Oh, yeah, those were really. That was some Walt Disney, like, fucked up.

[Lacey Mosley]

We should have had known then. We probably should have had known. But also, it's so weird to me to be a make believe ass bitch and come out and say that very real people don't have identities. It's like, but you made a whole world where it was Muggles and people riding on brooms and doing all this wild shit and niggas gotta talk a hat. But you don't believe that trans people exist.

[Caleb Herring]

You got the kind of fucked up mind that can dream up Dobby the house elf, but you can't imagine somebody was born as a woman in a man's body. It's like, what's going on?

[Lacey Mosley]

What's going on, sis? Your imagination is confusing us. Cause in some ways it's unlimited and in other ways extremely limited to tangible, very real things.

[Caleb Herring]

Also, here's what else I'm gonna say. Even if that's, that's how you feel, do Us a push, bro. Keep the money.

[Lacey Mosley]

You have to tell us.

[Caleb Herring]

Be quiet.

[Lacey Mosley]

Tell nobody about this.

[Caleb Herring]

That's for you. Invite people over for dinner. You have them sign an NDA. You tell them at dinner, at your house.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. At your salon. Then you have your. Your conversations about, you know, invalidating people's human rights. But you don't have to get on the Internet and talk about that. Since nobody asked you. Nobody was like, trans rights. What does J.K. rowling think?

[Caleb Herring]

Don't do it.

[Lacey Mosley]

Let's get her on the mic. Nobody asked you for this.

[Caleb Herring]

If I make. If I make a billion, you will never hear from me again.

[Lacey Mosley]

Never.

[Caleb Herring]

Never, ever, ever, ever will I sound off on the issues.

[Lacey Mosley]

Nope. No photos. You ain't gonna see me taking a private jet two minutes away. I'm not dressing up ice cream.

[Caleb Herring]

I'm not dressing up as anything for Halloween.

[Lacey Mosley]

Nope.

[Caleb Herring]

I'm not doing any. I'm not even gonna tell y'all a song that I like.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right?

[Caleb Herring]

I'm off the grid. I'm at my place.

[Lacey Mosley]

You ain't getting no opinions from me, honey. I'm hanging out whatsoever.

[Caleb Herring]

I would be taking that private jet for ice cream, though, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

And we'll be on it together. We ain't gotta tell nobody.

[Caleb Herring]

I'm not telling anybody.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay?

[Caleb Herring]

I will say, when they started dragging Taylor for using the private J, Y'all don't even wanna see what I would do with a private jet, right? And I take my car to 711 and it's a block away. Okay?

[Lacey Mosley]

Caleb pulled up to the comedy show in a private jet. We were like, where do we park this?

[Caleb Herring]

I'm pulling up to the yard. Theater in a pj. You better believe it. I'm parking it on the roof.

[Lacey Mosley]

He parked it on the roof. No, he's parked. No, he's on Santa Monica. No, it's a whole jet.

[Caleb Herring]

I'm at Largo in a helicopter. Believe it.

[Lacey Mosley]

They said after seven, you could park on the street. So that's where he put the jet.

[Caleb Herring]

That's where he put it.

[Lacey Mosley]

What you mean? So among those was the Amer. Okay? So he's doing all this buckorea stuff. Norman. And among one of the places that he disagreed with was the American Medical Association. So whatever the American Medical association was doing, Norman was not fucking with it.

[Caleb Herring]

Vaccines. Yes, I know it.

[Lacey Mosley]

So Norman has a cure for cancer. In 1930, Norman claimed that he had obtained a cure for cancer from Dr. Osias or Ozias. He paid for five volunteers with cancer to subject themselves to the treatment at the at his expense. And published the findings of the study in his tabloid companion today, the KTNT radio station, unfortunately. And look at this. So this is the TNT flyer. He has some good flyers for the.

[Caleb Herring]

Time his graphic designer is doing what needs to be done.

[Lacey Mosley]

I will say that it's giving like Photoshop. It's giving indesign. Like what kind of who, what kind of printing press are you fucking with? Because this is the future.

[Caleb Herring]

I would almost get this tattooed on me. This is cute, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

So it says TNT the flyer. We'll post it on the Instagram. It says the Naked Truth. This is an in Baker publication in all caps or in larger font. It says cancer is curable. Cures positively being made while medical trust refuses recognition because it affords them no financial gain. This is a reprint from December, January, February, March, april issues of TNT magazine. If you wanna read TNT magazine, it's just $2 yearly. It's the voice of the public, aka Norman, who's calling himself the public. Also, how you gonna be one voice talking about you, the voice of the public. I feel like you gotta be more than one voice.

[Caleb Herring]

Gotta at least be a cohort, a collective right.

[Lacey Mosley]

You gotta have some writers, an editor. You can't be the public. And it's just you also, don't you.

[Caleb Herring]

Miss when crazy people talk like the Constitution right now, crazy people sound so stupid. But back then, crazy people talked like that. He said it affords them no gain.

[Lacey Mosley]

And he got some bars here because he's not wrong about, like, medical. The medical industry making a lot of money off not curing things and giving you a pill that gives you side effects that you have to take another pill for. And even when they kill people with these pills, like the cost of paying off some families who have died because of this medication is way cheaper than taking the medication off the market. So. And that's just a fact of today.

[Caleb Herring]

Norman called big pharma big time.

[Lacey Mosley]

He did.

[Caleb Herring]

And he's right.

[Lacey Mosley]

But. But here's how he was wrong. His five volunteers, they all died.

[Caleb Herring]

Well, so he was small pharma.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, as it turns out.

[Caleb Herring]

And that's not.

[Lacey Mosley]

And this is unfortunate because, like, I'm sure, especially during these times where, like, we have a lot more research, we have a lot more, you know, technology now. But obviously there's still incurable types of cancer. Cancer is still a very fatal, you know, disease. But so these people are putting their life in this man's hands, you know, thinking that he might have a cure to something that at the time and still is not really curable. I feel bad for these people because who knows if they might have lived longer if they hadn't done his experimental treatments.

[Caleb Herring]

I would have gotten scammed all the time in the 1900s. I would have definitely let a man with a fancy flyer kill me. Like, I. I wouldn't have known any better. I needed to. I needed to see a bunch of people get scammed on the Internet for me to learn.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay?

[Caleb Herring]

Without that, I would have been.

[Lacey Mosley]

And this is from the unflappable. You say you're not getting scared, but you think in the.

[Caleb Herring]

Back in the day. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Back in the day, a guy on the street could have been like, take this medicine. And I. I would have done it and died, Right?

[Lacey Mosley]

Mm.

[Caleb Herring]

Mm.

[Lacey Mosley]

Bitch. Immediately. Immediately. On the street, right after the sip.

[Caleb Herring]

I know for sure. I take one sip out of a little vial, I keel over and die.

[Lacey Mosley]

For sure. My wife, you're like, it was worth it. Like, on the way out, tell my story. So the cure's formula turned out to be a concoction of alcohol, glycerin, carbolic acid mixed with a tea brewed from watermelon seeds, brown corn silk, and clover leaves. So just anything?

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah, he just said, whatever's in the pantry.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right? This is gonna do it. Still, Norman marched onward. And despite lacking any training or authority whatsoever, that same year, he opened the Baker Institute at Muscatine for the treatment of cancer sufferers.

[Caleb Herring]

He killed five. Now, see, I would not have been the sixth person. I'll tell you that. I would not have been the sixth patient to die under Norman's care.

[Lacey Mosley]

And also, talk about failing up. Like, he did an experiment. Everybody died. And he was like, let's open an institution. And everybody was like, yes, why not? What?

[Caleb Herring]

And even. Even in the little write up, it says he marched on. He didn't let this hold him back. He's marching on.

[Lacey Mosley]

I feel like this should have held him back.

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah. Take it to heart.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes. So, though locals quickly caught on, Norman's national radio show continued to bring cancer patients from all over the country to his hospital. Mind you, he has no medical training. Just vibes.

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah, just vibes And a radio station.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right. He would later employ Harry Hoxie, one of the nation's leading proponents of unapproved cancer treatments. So he was like, who else is crazy as hell? Let's get them into the business. So this is Harry. Harry is giving unwell. He's also giving Rich.

[Caleb Herring]

Harry looks like a. A cartoon dog who plays a sheriff on a. On a Cartoon show.

[Lacey Mosley]

He really does. And look at all that pomade in his hair. He was like, y'all go listen to me about health, cuz I got pomade.

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah. Also, to be the leading expert in unapproved cancer treatments is like, I'm not trying to hang out with that guy.

[Lacey Mosley]

Anybody though, right? If it's unapproved, I could be the leading expert in some that nobody is telling me I'm the lead.

[Caleb Herring]

And we might be right.

[Lacey Mosley]

I think we are. If it's unapproved, me and Lacey have.

[Caleb Herring]

The cure for cancer.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's unapproved.

[Caleb Herring]

It's unapproved.

[Lacey Mosley]

And we are leaders in the field.

[Caleb Herring]

And it's a lot of vibes, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

Like what? So the Baker Institute became financially very successful and earned over $444,000, around $8 million in today's money in 1930 alone. So he's just grifting people who have a disease and obviously not a lot of access to, you know, medical. Medical care. They heard him on the radio and were like, let's go to the radio guy.

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

Which I don't blame them for at all. This is just fucked that you're, like, continuing, like, what are your success rates? Because it's not giving success. So you're just taking people's money. However, after continuing to attack the ama, the association pressured the Federal Radio Commission to shut him down. In response, Norman claimed that the AMA offered him money to remove his treatment so that they could continue promoting surgical inventions and sued them for libel and defamation. So how are you suing them for libel and defamation, defamation, when you are the one who's doing unapproved treatments that have no success rate?

[Caleb Herring]

That's the move, though. When you got nothing else, you gotta go for libel and defamation and deflect. That's how you do it. Put him on the defensive.

[Lacey Mosley]

This man is ahead of his time for evil business geniuses.

[Caleb Herring]

Yes, he is.

[Lacey Mosley]

He also claimed that AMA had sent three assassins to his KTNT radio station to silence him forever. With murder.

[Caleb Herring]

With death.

[Lacey Mosley]

So in the gunfight, his friend Harry allegedly shot one of the men before all three ran away. So he's said they had a gunfight.

[Caleb Herring]

It might have been the families of one of those five people you killed. Bitch.

[Lacey Mosley]

Really? Like, it's giving like, you probably have enemies, bro.

[Caleb Herring]

Right? You've made some enemies for sure.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. You just assume it's the ama. I don't know. I feel like you.

[Caleb Herring]

It's way more likely that it's someone who lives around you and has heard about your experiments.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right. And is trying to stop you from ruining the world. The ensuing police investigation was dropped due to lack of evidence. Yeah, it sounds like you made up a lie. So in the last bit, to save his dying business, in the middle of fighting off claims that he was a fraud, Norman held an outdoor demonstration of his cancer cure to silence any doubts. So how do you have an outdoor. Cancer is not like something that you can see being cured immediately. Like, what is this outdoor vent?

[Caleb Herring]

Right.

[Lacey Mosley]

You just got a podium now that.

[Caleb Herring]

I would go to, though.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, we gotta see what you're doing.

[Caleb Herring]

If they were like, we're come down to the function. We're curing cancer on the spot. I'd be like, well, I gotta go see what's up.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right? I gotta check it out.

[Caleb Herring]

Gotta go.

[Lacey Mosley]

I may not volunteer, but I'm at least be standing, you know, day off work.

[Caleb Herring]

I'm gonna go check it out.

[Lacey Mosley]

We gotta know this is research, so. Oh, Lord. He lined up a number of his patients to testify on how Norman's treatment had cured them and drank a large quantity of the formula to prove that it was safe. He then performed live surgery on a man named Mandis Johnson, who had a brain tumor. Live surgery.

[Caleb Herring]

And the man is not a doctor.

[Lacey Mosley]

Not a doctor.

[Caleb Herring]

We can't lose that part. He performed live surgery as a non.

[Lacey Mosley]

Doctor and also on the brain, which is notoriously one of the harder things to do. Surgery as It's. It's a brain.

[Caleb Herring]

And he just did this in the park?

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah.

[Caleb Herring]

That's crazy.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's on a Tuesday afternoon.

[Caleb Herring]

It cannot be sterile out there.

[Lacey Mosley]

No, it's flies and shit. They like, we got a fly on the brain, y'all. Hold on. Everybody got a fly swatter? We got three flies on the brain. We got to get these off. No, actually, the flies help with the function. With the brain function.

[Caleb Herring]

It's cool. It's part of the treatment.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's a part of the treatment.

[Caleb Herring]

Don't worry.

[Lacey Mosley]

Y'all ain't have no flies on your brain. See, that's why you down bad. Okay? That's your fault. Y'all ain't never thought about that? No. This is absolutely unhinged. So he performed a live surgery, and I was thinking, like, live surgery. That sounds so wild. But now, like, Dr. Miami, like, they be doing surgeries on Instagram Live. It's like, you want half off of your surgery? Let us get on live while we are operating on you, which is very weird and scary, but doctors are getting on live. I don't Want a doctor on live when I'm in the or. Please don't. Please don't put your.

[Caleb Herring]

I don't want an Internet famous doctor.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right?

[Caleb Herring]

I don't want a goofy TikTok about how you had someone die when they were under.

[Lacey Mosley]

Hey, I'm like, over here, like, boop, boop. And you like. You like looking to see who's joining the live.

[Caleb Herring]

You shouting out. You're shouting out the homies.

[Lacey Mosley]

What's up, Surgery Gal 84? You never miss one of these.

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah, thank you for the. Thank you for the tip.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes, thank you for the tip. Yeah, y'all. And like and subscribe. Like and subscribe. Okay. Oh, shit. Hold on one second, y'all. One second. No, we got him back. We got him back. Y'all know sometimes it gets a little crazy in the surgery room. The surgeons start doing versuses, right? They get. No live with other surgeons. Oh, no. This is a bad time. We live in. And the worst times were the times we're talking about now. So while still conscious, Norman had his skull open, dumped the solution onto his brain, and proclaimed that his cancer was cured. So he didn't. Okay. The man couldn't have just drank the solution. You needed to splash it on his brain like in some goddamn cologne in.

[Caleb Herring]

Front of the audience. I'm like, how did this. Did the man live?

[Lacey Mosley]

Don't hit my brain with no body splash made at home, right? No. This man is wild. I cannot believe this shit. Where were the police?

[Caleb Herring]

How did he open up? Yeah, where were the police? He's in the park opening up somebody's brain, throwing shit on it.

[Lacey Mosley]

And nobody thought that this. Nobody intervened.

[Caleb Herring]

Everybody's like, that's just Norman.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, that's just Norman. You know, he gonna open up a brain on a Tuesday. Okay. At the park. What y'all talking about? So the Federal Radio Commission finally took away his radio license in 1931. It took y'all long enough. In 1932, Norman lost his case against the AMA and an arrest warrant was issued against him for practicing without a license. I just feel like y'all should have arrested him in the park. Like, I don't understand why he got to leave this surgery event. And nobody. Yeah, the man put out flyers. Y'all knew he was about to. He was like, hey, y'all come out Tuesday afternoon. We doing illegal stuff.

[Caleb Herring]

I can't believe he cracked skulls in the park and he lost the radio license before he lost the medical.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes. It feels like the radio should have been. Definitely needs to be taken away. But I feel like the medical thing, like the arrest should have been first order of operations. Yeah, y'all did this a little backwards. They were like, well, he is getting great ad times. And, you know, the radio station is doing so beyond muscatine. Norman fled muscatine from Mexico, where he ran into Dr. John Brinkley. Dr. Brinkley made his name transplanting goat testicles into male patients to restore virality. So before they had the sex honey that people are now putting on wings. Please stop this. Have you seen this sex honey?

[Caleb Herring]

No. What is this?

[Lacey Mosley]

Now? When I go to gas stations, I've been seeing the sex honey. It's a honey that I guess they put in horniness into. And you squeeze the honey honey in your mouth and make it horny all night.

[Caleb Herring]

I'm so tired.

[Lacey Mosley]

And then I saw a TikTok where somebody was putting the sex honey on wings.

[Caleb Herring]

I'm so tired. I'm so tired. If y'all can't fuck, just don't fuck. Just don't fuck. This is crazy. This is getting out of control.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's out of hand, bro. Like, now I can't even trust if I'm going to Wingstop, my coochie gonna be hard all night.

[Caleb Herring]

No, don't let him have a Mexican coke.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, God. It's over for me. Oh, my go. Goodness, no.

[Caleb Herring]

Horny honey. I'm sick.

[Lacey Mosley]

So, you know, I don't even know how I got on horny honey. Oh. Because of the goat testicles. So he was like. So men were not getting the horny like they wanted to. And he was like, all right, let's give you some goat balls. And then that's gonna really get the bitches to me.

[Caleb Herring]

And what the fuck do goats have going on that we need? They got. Are they notoriously horny or something?

[Lacey Mosley]

I don't know. And are you putting an extra ball in the sack you already got, or are you taking your ball out and then putting a goat ball in? And then. And then what happens when you. So are you coming goat sper.

[Caleb Herring]

I don't like any of it.

[Lacey Mosley]

I don't like any it had. You got to disclose if you got goat balls. Don't just be gentlemen.

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah, tell me.

[Lacey Mosley]

Tell me up front if you got goat balls.

[Caleb Herring]

If you're part man, part goat, you need to tell me before we get in bed. I need to know.

[Lacey Mosley]

So he was doing this to male patients and had already opened a radio station, xer, at Villa Aquina, opposite of Del Rio, Texas. So he's already opened up another Radio station. And he met the goatball man. So Dr. Brinkley, the goatball doctor, was a fraudster in his own and would later be sued by the US Government for mail fraud and malpractice, as he had brought his medical degree from a diploma mill. So at least he went and purchased a little paper.

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah, he's doing the. He's at least attempting, like, a fake information campaign about it. I'm a doctor.

[Lacey Mosley]

He was like, look at that sign up there. I am a doctor from medical school of medicine. Now get them balls out.

[Caleb Herring]

Dot Med.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, we keep the goats fresh. We want to keep their balls as virile as possible.

[Caleb Herring]

He's got a goat pin in his office.

[Lacey Mosley]

Literally. He's like, which one you want? We let you pick it. Like a lobster tank. Which goat looks horniest? Which one do you want to share a ball with? No. This is terrible. So Norman continued to market his cancer cures before returning to Muscatine in 1936, where he served one day in jail for the charges against him. Mind you, five people died after being under his care. And he also cut open a man's skull in the park. And they said, one day of jail, you learned your lesson, your rapscallion.

[Caleb Herring]

How the hell did he pull that off?

[Lacey Mosley]

You're not supposed to be cutting open people's heads when you ain't got no medical degree in the park.

[Caleb Herring]

Right? Who told them?

[Lacey Mosley]

Nobody ever actually said that.

[Caleb Herring]

Where is it in the law? Where is it in the law? Show me that.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, see, that's why we had blue laws, because we needed very specific laws about not getting fish drunk and also not cutting open somebody head in the park. Cause otherwise how people go, no, that was blue. We gotta try it to know. So he also ran for governor of Iowa. Of course he did, bitch. Norman, are you retired?

[Caleb Herring]

If he won, I'm pissed.

[Lacey Mosley]

And he also ran for state senator, but lost miserably. Thank you. Okay. At least he. At least he lost. So Norman then followed Dr. Brinkley to Eureka Springs, Arkansas, moving around a lot, very scammery, where he purchased a Victorian hotel to convert it into another hospital.

[Caleb Herring]

No.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes.

[Caleb Herring]

He has a passion.

[Lacey Mosley]

And, you know, hotels are the best things for hospitals because they don't have no overhead lighting. And you don't need that.

[Caleb Herring]

No.

[Lacey Mosley]

You don't need that in the hospital.

[Caleb Herring]

No.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay.

[Caleb Herring]

Just vibes.

[Lacey Mosley]

Look at this hotel. This also looks like a haunted mansion. Like, this looks like the spirits of everybody whoever stayed there is definitely just chilling in the parlor.

[Caleb Herring]

I would like to die there. Every Time I go into a fancy hotel, I'm like, this would be a great place to die, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

Like, if I'm a haunt, like, let me hunt someplace cute.

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's given, like, spooky. It's got, like, the very pointy architecture. I'm definitely not going there as a hospital. It's not giving care.

[Caleb Herring]

No.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's not giving medical care.

[Caleb Herring]

It's giving maybe end of life care.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right.

[Caleb Herring]

Hospice.

[Lacey Mosley]

How many outlets y'all got in there? It's not even giving, like, electricity is running through the whole joint.

[Caleb Herring]

Please.

[Lacey Mosley]

No, thank you. And who's doing the landscaping? It seems like the trees and everything are just. The foliage is out of control.

[Caleb Herring]

You ever been to Eureka Springs?

[Lacey Mosley]

No, I haven't.

[Caleb Herring]

It's beautiful down there.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay.

[Caleb Herring]

It is. I bet this was a beautiful place.

[Lacey Mosley]

You think so?

[Caleb Herring]

I bet it was.

[Lacey Mosley]

And it does look big and fancy. And this is an olden time photo, so I'm sure, like, if it was, like, real color and you were walking up, this might look like a college or like a prestigious, you know, like the Hogwarts of medicine.

[Caleb Herring]

I bet it was pretty.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's giving. You know what. What a beautiful place to die. Cause this is what's gonna happen if you went over there. Norman's gonna kill your ass.

[Caleb Herring]

Norman's definitely gonna take your life.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay. Y'all want a final resting place? That's sexy. Come on down here and get this medical treatment at this. So Norman painted the Crescent Hotel almost entirely lavender, his favorite color, and stuck one of his tangly Californs on the roof. So also, is Norman a queer icon?

[Caleb Herring]

I was about to say, if his favorite color is purple, we're dealing with a. Can I say faggot?

[Lacey Mosley]

I'm sorry. You can. But before that, what rang a bell to me is obviously, like, he was dating, like, divas who were pretending to be madams. That's a larger than life woman personality. And as a woman who has dated a lot of queer men, you know, they are very attracted to, like, a diva. And then he left his diva wife one year after, you know, his new one, and now he's just traveling with Dr. Brinkley.

[Caleb Herring]

Now he's shacked up with Dr. Brinkley.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. Who does ball surgery for men.

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

With no license, which means he was just very. Had a passion.

[Caleb Herring]

Lighten the loafers for balls. Lighten the loafers for sure. This guy.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes. Love that for him. So he stuck a California on the roof. He wore violet suits to match and drove a custom coach built cord Automobile as the newest big wig of Eureka Springs. So he rode around in purple suits like he was fucking Willy Wonka. And he was driving the baddest bitch vehicle. Honestly. Iconic. Iconic. Though he exuded confidence with B list movie star looks. Oh, y'all Shady Kaylin. Not B list movie star.

[Caleb Herring]

Damn.

[Lacey Mosley]

Not A list, but B. Like he was not Hella Berry Fonte or Harry Belafonte, but you know, he was like Belafonte. Hey. Like, hey, hey. Yeah, he was kind of cute. So Norman continued to be extremely paranoid and had his office sealed off in bulletproof glass, as well as kept two sub submachine guns nearby. You should be paranoid. You killing people's family at the same hotel. You have enemies.

[Caleb Herring]

Yes, you have big enemies.

[Lacey Mosley]

You got haters.

[Caleb Herring]

Get some more machine guns. I guarantee you need it.

[Lacey Mosley]

So the Baker Hospital operated successfully for two years before Norman was caught trying to defraud people through flyers advertising the hospital. Yeah, I'm not going to a hospital with a flyer like a Cedars sign that somebody was out on the street like, y'all come to Cedars. Y'all come to Cedars.

[Caleb Herring]

We got them surgeries.

[Lacey Mosley]

We got them free before 11 in the error. Ladies, ladies, come on.

[Caleb Herring]

Two drink minimum. Come on, get out here.

[Lacey Mosley]

Ladies get IV first. Ladies get IV first. Y'all. Y'all pull up. Yeah, if your hospital got flyers, I don't wanna come. This feels like y'all doing a little too much so. In 1940, Norman was found guilty of mail fraud. They love getting the girls on mail fraud. Don't put a flyer in the mail, girl, because the US Postal Service is snitching, okay?

[Caleb Herring]

They're telling on you guys for real.

[Lacey Mosley]

If I get arrested for mail fraud, though, the mail truck better take me to the jail. Like, I want the doors to be open.

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

I want the mail to take me to jail. Okay, so he served three years at the federal penitentiary at Leavenworth, Kansas, in 19. This is his mug shot. His mug shot is still giving.

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah, no, he's serving.

[Lacey Mosley]

He's serving and serving time? Yes, both. He's serving looks and time. Oh, he's serving, all right. So in 1946, he tried unsuccessfully to reopen his facility in Muscatine. The entire time, he claimed he was the victim of a conspiracy against him. With hospitals and radio stations closed, Norman retired to Miami, Florida, where he lived on. On a three story yacht once owned by a railroad magnate, Jay Gold. He died there of cirrhosis of the liver on September 8, 1958 at the age of 76. So he lived for a long time. He lived till 76. Cirrhosis makes sense to me because this man was clearly drinking alcohol. Like, this is all starting to add up to me now. Cause I'm like, you can't be sober and be like, we cutting on somebody head in the park.

[Caleb Herring]

No, this is an alcoholic gay man who died alone in Florida.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah.

[Caleb Herring]

That's sad.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah.

[Caleb Herring]

But also, I mean, should have happened sooner.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. You was a menace. My guy. Like, you worked so hard.

[Caleb Herring]

And, you know, he probably killed so much more than five people.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, hell, yeah.

[Caleb Herring]

When you count it all up.

[Lacey Mosley]

Cause hospitals, you don't really count. Like, nobody's like, oh, the hospital killed these people. It's like, when you go to the hospital, that's there's a chance.

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah. You're there for a reason. You might die soon.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right. Or maybe they save you. So this is a nasty man. I really wish, Norman, that you had just followed your passion for entertainment and become an actor.

[Caleb Herring]

Or. Or, let's be honest. The drag queen.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes.

[Caleb Herring]

That's what was really.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, she could have been getting $1 tips at the local pub and living your best life, but instead, you was out here operating on people with no licenses. I don't like you, Norman. I don't like you.

[Caleb Herring]

I don't like him at all.

[Lacey Mosley]

The suits are given, though. The lavender hotel. Nice touches. But you're a bad guy. But he lived for a long time. When you evil, you be living long.

[Caleb Herring]

Evil people do live for a long time. And he was supposed to die at, like, 30.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah.

[Caleb Herring]

Back then, that's what people did.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. And he persevered.

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah. He really lived.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes.

[Caleb Herring]

Like, multiple jail sentences, multiple houses.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right. And like, he was alive in the 50s. Like, we was over here doing the Corn Husker or whatever wack dances they was doing in the 50s. And he's still alive from the 1800s.

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah. He's old as fuck.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. So. All right, guys, that brings us to the saddest part of the show. The end where I have to let Caleb go. But before we do that, I love that you're putting up a peace sign. Like, somebody can see this for you. I love it. I need it for me. Before we let you go scammer of the week, this will re highlight a charlatan who's worthy of our praise. Maybe not like Norman's old bitch ass, but let's. So today we're talking about a student in Hong Kong who has been arrested after participating in an elaborate kidnapping to scam her parents out of ransom money. You kidnapped yourself.

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

To scam your parents.

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay. I don't know where I stand yet.

[Caleb Herring]

I'm absolutely, I'm in it. I'm supportive.

[Lacey Mosley]

You're supportive.

[Caleb Herring]

I would never do it to my mom. So I'm like, your parents must be bad, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

I would assume it's giving like rich, evil, mommy and daddy never loved me.

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah. They must deserve it.

[Lacey Mosley]

So the rue started when she had a video sent to her parents of herself with blood covering her body with a note demanding 5 million in Hong Kong dollars or 640,000 USD.

[Caleb Herring]

Damn, that's not even that much.

[Lacey Mosley]

I mean, I guess in Hong kong and the 5 million was million 640k.

[Caleb Herring]

My note would be for much more than that. I will say that.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. Because it feels like you can only do a kidnapping once. Like you can't be like, oh, they napped me again, y'all.

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah. Cause the second time I'm like keeper. Right?

[Lacey Mosley]

It was like we did our best.

[Caleb Herring]

Maybe her family doesn't have that much money though. 640 is not a lot.

[Lacey Mosley]

I feel like if you ever think that kidnap, like pretending to do a kidnapping to get money out of your par, like they must have some kind of money cuz this ain't a. Like my form of doing this would be like, oh, my mom sent me to the store with a 20 and I'm not giving her her change.

[Caleb Herring]

Right.

[Lacey Mosley]

Like that's my small ransom.

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

So you gotta know your parents got a little coin. So they reported it to the police who launched an investigation. As it turns out In August, the 18 year old ran into a person online posing as a Shanghai police officer. He accused her of being involved in a criminal case during the investigation and he was able to dupe her out of 200,000 in Hong Kong dollars. Roughly $25,000 US. So this is the student. So she got coined. Cause if you are 18 and someone can get 25k out of you, you got way more money than the average 18 year old. Yeah, like so. But over time, the scammer endeared himself to the student and she began to develop feelings for him. Oh, bitch girl, how are you developing feelings for somebody who's taking your money?

[Caleb Herring]

A tale as old as time.

[Lacey Mosley]

I. There is nothing that drives my coochie out more than somebody asking me for money.

[Caleb Herring]

Essentially 25k.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. No. Ain't enough honey and goat balls in the water. Get the horny honey.

[Caleb Herring]

We're gonna need it.

[Lacey Mosley]

We need a vat.

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay. We need the horny bees. I need to get stung by them like the honey ain't gonna be enough. Okay, I'm turned off. So no longer or not long after he tried to scam her again out of almost 13,000 USD. But the bank flagged the wire transfer before it was completed. Officers warned her about the scammer, but she continued the relay relationship. Damn.

[Caleb Herring]

It really is like that sometimes, is it? It really sometimes. Sometimes when you're really desperate, you'll do anything for us.

[Lacey Mosley]

This camera must have been fine or doing some things has had some talents that we don't know about because this is baby. As a result, her parents ordered her home and not long after they received the video, officers were able to track her down through security footage at a hotel and arrest her. The student told officers she was helping her mainland police friend on a mission because she looked like a person want by the mainland authorities. And that the fake blood in the video turned out to be ketchup.

[Caleb Herring]

Now you're not even gonna buy some Halloween store blood?

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. Come on now. They got a Halloween store on every block.

[Caleb Herring]

Dedicate be dedicated to your craft.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay. You in Hong Kong. I know they got stuff over there for cosplay and for like you could have got on. You could have gone on Amazon sis and got some fake blood.

[Caleb Herring]

Ketchup.

[Lacey Mosley]

Ketchup.

[Caleb Herring]

Come on, at least tell me you.

[Lacey Mosley]

Died at a little bit of chicken to get the consistency right. Because ketchup doesn't look like blood.

[Caleb Herring]

No. Well, maybe that's her parents knew. I still support her. I think she's a queen. I think she's a queen. I love it.

[Lacey Mosley]

I do appreciate that this was a low budget grip. She was just like get some Heinz, get the video camera out, get a hotel room. Right? And that's all we need. So this, this look an interesting term because I thought that she was scamming her parents out of the money. But in reality she got some sexy person over here who's helping her do these crimes.

[Caleb Herring]

And hey, if we we haven't seen him. If he's going at sex and he's cute, who knows, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

He might have earned it.

[Caleb Herring]

He might have earned it.

[Lacey Mosley]

He might have earned this. Also if you got 25k laying around in your own bank account without the assistance of your parents. You didn't need. Look girl, now you got a record.

[Caleb Herring]

Well, but hey, love is worth it. Love is worth. Love is worth a record. I've always said this.

[Lacey Mosley]

They're getting married.

[Caleb Herring]

They're still together, they're in love.

[Lacey Mosley]

We doing a little jail soiree. Nothing. Nothing, too.

[Caleb Herring]

Come on down.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. Visiting hours start at noon. Don't wear any jewelry.

[Caleb Herring]

Don't bring any weapons, please.

[Lacey Mosley]

Don't bring any weapons, please. And we gonna have a ceremony.

[Caleb Herring]

No. No.

[Lacey Mosley]

All right. I feel bad for Miss Girl, but also, I don't. Cause, sis, you had plenty of opportunities to hop off this.

[Caleb Herring]

Yeah, she could have gotten out anytime. God bless her.

[Lacey Mosley]

God bless her. God bless her. Scamming. Fine ass, man.

[Caleb Herring]

I bet he is, too.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, yeah. You know, he's tasty.

[Caleb Herring]

I bet he is.

[Lacey Mosley]

If he's not, I bet then I'm really going to be mad at you. He better. He better be looking like.

[Caleb Herring]

See, I don't need. Honey, I'm. I'm getting horny thinking about a guy I've never seen who is objectively a thief. Like, I'm literally, like, worked up right now.

[Lacey Mosley]

You don't even know the gumballs.

[Caleb Herring]

The idea. The idea of a guy being hot, I'm just like, woo. We got to end the episode.

[Lacey Mosley]

We have no features. We have no. We're just like, woo. Oh, my God, that imaginary theft, man. Yes.

[Caleb Herring]

Oh, I'm thinking about hot people I've seen before.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's all I need. It's getting steamy on here, guys. We always ask people on this show, where would you like to be found? Anything you want people to watch? Anywhere that they can follow you.

[Caleb Herring]

Oh, boy. Yeah, you guys can follow me on Instagram and Twitter. Caleb says things, and I'll tell you what's up over there.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes. And Caleb is hilarious. Get your follow. Look, Twitter's a hellscape, and I really thank God for you. I'm being so sincere that I see you just tweeting the goofiest, most hilarious things every day. And it makes me laugh so often. And I really appreciate it because you get on Twitter and they'd be like, everything is bad, women. Y'all don't got no rights no more. As of today at 4:00pm and, oh, the police is doing more murders. Like, you know, it's just, like, such a dark place. So then to see, like, you know, a random, like, tweet from you.

[Caleb Herring]

I'm talking about nonsense.

[Lacey Mosley]

I love that you're talking about nonsense. I, too, am talking about nonsense. Okay? I'm trying to contribute in a healthy way online, which is.

[Caleb Herring]

And we're doing it.

[Lacey Mosley]

Talking about nonsense.

[Caleb Herring]

And we're doing it.

[Lacey Mosley]

We are congregation, as always, scam. Snitch on your friends and your family and your [e-mail] if you wanna see the photos. And these fire ass posters from Qu Icon. Norman Baker. Scam got his pod on the Instagram and then on Twitter. That's where I'll be talking to y'all. And y'all be doing shenanigans. Stop Photoshopping me into photos with the general, okay? I will never tell you what cut rate car insurance I have. This is. I'm tired of y'all.

[Caleb Herring]

I saw one. I'm not gonna lie. It made me laugh.

[Lacey Mosley]

And it ain't even make me the same height as Shaq as I should be, right? Cause we are the same height. I'm very tall.

[Caleb Herring]

I met you and Shaq. And y'all are very much the same height.

[Lacey Mosley]

Thank you. Thank you. I've met Shaq as well. And it was like, man, the air up here, my guy, us on the same level. That's how we was talk. That's what we was talking about the whole time. Because we have that in common. You hear me? And you can follow me at D I V A L A C I D Valacy on all platforms. Congregation. Stay radioing.

[Caleb Herring]

Stay radioing.

[Lacey Mosley]

Stay radio. That's the best one yet. All right, we're out. This has been an Earwolf production in association with Team Coco Scam Goddess stars and his hosted by me, Lacey Moseley, AKA Scam Goddess. It's produced by Judith Garcbo, engineered by Ryan Connor and Abby Aguilar. Our researcher is Kaelyn Brandt. Stay scheming. Netcredit is here to say yes because you're more than a credit score. Apply in minutes and get a decision as soon as the same day. Loans offered by NetCredit or lending partner banks and service by NetCredit. Applications subject to review and approval.

[Caleb Herring]

Learn more at netcredit.com partners. NetCredit Credit to the people Auto insurance can all seem the same until it comes time to use it. So don't get stuck paying more for less coverage. Switch to USAA auto insurance and you could start saving money in no time. Get a quote today. Restrictions applied.