Historical Pretendians w/ Franchesca Ramsey

Summary

Scam Goddess – “Historical Pretendians” w/ Franchesca Ramsey

Air Date: September 23, 2025
Host: Laci Mosley
Guest: Franchesca Ramsey

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Episode Overview

In this lively and sharply funny episode of "Scam Goddess," host Laci Mosley welcomes back comedian, actress, and podcaster Franchesca Ramsey to explore the phenomenon of “Pretendians”—non-Native people fraudulently claiming Indigenous identity for personal gain. Through the lens of the recent Elizabeth Hoover scandal, Laci and Franchesca dissect why people pretend to be Native American, the impacts on real Native communities, and the wild history of similar cons. Their playful banter and incisive commentary offer equal parts entertainment and cultural critique.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Personal Encounters with Scams (03:07–09:08)

• Franchesca's Story: Franchesca recounts her experience with a sophisticated phishing scam where her Facebook fan page was hijacked under the guise of a paid appearance offer. The scam was notable for its authenticity—using professional contacts, payment negotiation, and even tech onboarding calls.
  • Quote:
    “I am not a scam girly myself. I walk the straight and narrow. Except for I'm not straight or narrow... my Facebook fan page got hacked last year.” (03:07 – Franchesca Ramsey)
• Both lament the rise in scam calls and texts, noting scammers’ increasing desperation and professionalism amid a tough economy.
  • Quote:
    “It's honestly starting to upset me. Like, as someone who has been in scams for almost a decade now, scam is the brand.” (08:58 – Laci Mosley)

2. Historical Hoodwinks: Elizabeth Hoover and the Pretendian Phenomenon (13:05–41:10)

Who Was Elizabeth Hoover?

• UC Berkeley professor who falsely claimed Native ancestry for decades before apologizing in 2022, admitting she's white.
• Grew up attending powwows, claiming a “traumatizing family story” of a Mohawk great-grandmother—later, none of it verified.
• Built an academic career, became a leading “Native” scholar, organized indigenous campus life, published research.
  • Quote:
    “By her early 40s, she was one of the most successful Native American academics in the country…” (20:25 – Laci Mosley)

Early Red Flags

• Hoover leaned heavily into stereotypical Native aesthetics (turquoise jewelry, powwow attendance, beadwork during lectures).
  • Quote:
    “Colleagues and students noticed how Elizabeth was always beading, even during presentations at work...” (22:06 – Laci Mosley)
• Other Native scholars suspected her, noting she was playing to “white fantasies of what an authentic Native person was.”
  • “It looked like an Etsy shop exploded on her.” (24:14 – Audra Simpson as quoted by Laci)

Apology and Response

• In 2022, Hoover finally researched her genealogy, found no evidence, and issued a lengthy, bullet-pointed apology rife with academic speak but dodgy on genuine accountability.
  • Franchesca reads a dramatic excerpt and mocks its bureaucracy:

    “I have put away my dance regalia, ribbon skirts, moccasins and native jewelry... I begun to give away some of these things to people who will wear them better.”
    (41:04 – reading apology)

• Critique of apology: too long, vague on reparations, deflects blame to family, tries to maintain academic position.
  • “It's comedically longer than we thought... She was saying anything and everything.” (47:02 – Laci Mosley)

The Rationale and Damage

• Discussion on people passing as Native for academic, financial, and social gain.
• The harm in occupying space, speaking for, and representing groups one doesn’t belong to—taking jobs/scholarships, erasing actual Native voices.
  • Quote:
    “I'm very mad that she took away an opportunity for a real Native person to be quoted in that article.”
    (18:50 – Franchesca Ramsey)

Academic Imposters: A Pattern

• Laci highlights that higher education is especially plagued by such identity scams, referencing Rachel Dolezal as the most infamous example:
  • “You know, transracial people in teaching positions are not only pretending to be something they're not, but acting like an authority on the matter...” (59:42 – Laci Mosley)

3. The Parade of ‘Pretendians’ (53:07–58:41)

• Iron Eyes Cody: Famous "crying Indian" from 1970s anti-pollution PSA—actually Italian American.
  • “Pollution is a crying shame. Now the message is... good. No, the message is great. The message is you are just not the one to do it.” (55:16 – Franchesca Ramsey)
• Sacheen Littlefeather: Accepted Marlon Brando’s Oscar as a protest—revealed posthumously as not Native but Spanish/Mexican.
  • “How do you solve a problem like Maria? You change your fucking name to Sasheen Little Feather. That is messed up…” (57:41 – Franchesca Ramsey)
• Both discuss how “costuming” seal the grift—big jewelry, dreamcatcher necklaces, performative names.

4. Broader Cultural Themes (33:03–36:05; 49:45–52:14)

• White fascination with and appropriation of Native American identity—Cherokee myths, cars named for tribes, and racist sports mascots.
• The difference between DNA, legal tribal citizenship, and authentic community membership.
• The racially fraught history of “transracial” performance and its intersection with academia/power.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On scam hustle:
  "Scamming is a career, okay? It's a profession. They work just as hard as me."
  (07:55 – Laci Mosley)

• On performative apology:
  "This apology has so much language of a good apology, but it's also saying my family lied... so really they lied to me. I mean, look, and I'm a victim."
  (30:50 – Laci Mosley)

• On mascot racism:
  "You don't have to be native to have some sense."
  (18:39 – Franchesca Ramsey)

• On what ‘counts’ as Native:
  “It doesn’t matter if you claim to be Native. It matters if a tribe claims you to be one of them.”
  (50:50 – Laci Mosley)

• Classic Scam Goddess humor:
  "If you want to see the photos of all of these white people— I was going to say native. They almost got me. They almost tricked me."
  (64:40 – Laci Mosley)

---

Notable Timestamps

• 03:07 – Franchesca’s Facebook Page Scam Story
• 13:05 – Start of “Historical Hoodwinks” and the Elizabeth Hoover case
• 22:06 – Colleagues suspect something is off: “always beading”
• 29:36 – Dramatic reading of Hoover’s apology statement
• 41:04 – Listing of Hoover’s “reparations” (giving away regalia)
• 47:02 – Discovery that apology is much, much longer than thought
• 53:07 – Introduction and discussion of the “Pretendian” hall of fame
• 55:00 – Iron Eyes Cody’s true Italian identity revealed
• 57:41 – Sacheen Littlefeather exposé
• 58:48 – Fallout: Hoover keeps her job, students push for more accountability

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Tone and Style

The conversation is candid, irreverent, and charged with pointed cultural commentary, but always delivered with warmth and humor. Laci and Franchesca’s rapport makes serious cultural critique accessible and fun, seamlessly weaving personal stories, pop culture, and deep analysis of fraud in society.

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Final Thoughts & Call to Action (65:33–66:05)

• Franchesca: “Be yourself. Be you. There's only one you, so be you.” (65:41)
• Laci: “Whatever you are is beautiful. Embrace that.” (65:53)

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Stay Schemin’

For photos from the episode and more scam breakdowns, follow @scamgoddesspod on Instagram and find Laci (@divalaci) everywhere. The episode closes with a gentle reminder—be yourself, not a scam. Stay schemin’, congregation!

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Transcript

[Commercial Narrator]

Check out the new season of Reasonable Doubt, now streaming on Hulu. Louisiana's most successful attorney, Jack Stewart, defends a young actor accused of murder. Follow Emayatse Coronaldi, Morris Chestnut, Joseph Sikora, and guest stars Kash Doll and Lori Harvey as they fight their personal battles in the spotlight of the year's most sensational trial. In the pursuit of justice, every move counts. Reasonable Doubt, Season 3, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

[Lacy Mosley]

I' ma put you on, nephew.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

All right, Unc.

[Lacy Mosley]

Welcome to McDonald's. Can I take your order, miss? I've been hitting up McDonald's for years now.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

It's back.

[Lacy Mosley]

We need snack wraps. What's a snack wrap?

[Franchesca Ramsey]

It's the return of something great. Snack wrap is back.

[Lacy Mosley]

Scams, C, Robbery and Frauds. Scams C, Robbery. And from Scam Goddess, what's poppin? Congregation? Welcome back to another installment of the podcast, all about robbery, fraud and those who practice it, Scam Goddess, with me, Lacy Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. And y' all already know. I'm very. What? Excited? Yes. Thrilled. Elated. We lit. I have. Honestly, at this point, she has to be first lady of the church. Okay. She sits in the front pew, and she's allowed to wear hats. Today we have a genius gal, my friend, and a congregation darling on the show. She's a comedian, actress, podcaster, and writer queen. Okay? You may have seen her in MTV's Decoded Superstore. And shit white girls say to black girls. That's such an iconic video. You have many iconic videos. She's also a co host of Wondery's podcast Black History.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

For real.

[Lacy Mosley]

Congregation, please welcome Franchesca Ramsey to the show.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Friends, thanks for having me. I think this is 443 4.

[Lacy Mosley]

At this point, you might be the host. Let me hand you this paperwork. Okay.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, I've been here a few times.

[Lacy Mosley]

Am I trying to trick you into being the host of this show?

[Franchesca Ramsey]

I have no complaints, because one thing I need is a. I love honey.

[Lacy Mosley]

We love unemployment. Yes, we do.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

You of all people, you got a W2 on lock all of the time.

[Lacy Mosley]

To stop loving employment so much. It's killing me.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

That's a first for you because I'm always the one telling you you need to slow down.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah. Okay. And I have yet to slow. I'm trying. I'm actually doing my level best.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

No, but you know, you're booked and blessed, so we're okay with that.

[Lacy Mosley]

Right? It's like, I want to be like, God, please But then I'm also like, God, no, keep it coming.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

God, please. Yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

So we always ask on this podcast, what is your relationship to scams? Has there been any scams recently? Any scams you're interested in in the news? Any scams you run past the statute of limitations? It could literally be anything.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

I am not a scam girly myself. I walk the straight and narrow. Except for I'm not straight or narrow. But I think I told you about this, that my Facebook fan page got hacked last year.

[Lacy Mosley]

Oh, yes, I've read.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

And this is a thing that's been happening to a lot of people. They really target people that have large profiles on Facebook. People like actors, podcasters, YouTubers. And honestly, the scam is so genius and well done because it didn't set off any alarm bells to start. Basically, I got asked to do an appearance on a show, and it was gonna be run through Facebook. And in hindsight, I should have flagged that. It was like the Kelsey Brothers show. Like, what is their Travis Kelce?

[Lacy Mosley]

Oh, what? I don't know what that is. Taylor Swift, man.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, whatever their show is. And I was like, that's weird. Like, why would they on their show? Like, I don't do anything about sports. And I was like, should I delete, like, any shady things I posted about Taylor? But they were like, oh, we want you on the show. And it pays. Paid, like, $3,000. And I was like, okay, okay, cool. Like, none of those things. Again, the. The. The forum felt a little weird, but I've done weird panels and, you know, we all have. We've done all sorts of weird stuff. And, like, the $3,000 to me wasn't a red flag. Like, it's not. It's not a small amount, but it's not a huge amount that I would be like, that's unreasonable. They went through my management company. Again, not a red flag at all. And then we went back and forth over email scheduling a time to get on the zoom to do, like, a tech check. Again, not a red flag. You do a tech check sometimes when you record from home, of course. So I get on the zoom, and the guy doesn't turn his camera on, and he's like.

[Lacy Mosley]

Which I don't know. That's not a red flag for me. Cause sometimes I get on zoom or, oh, my God, I hate Google Meet. Anytime somebody's like, Google Meet, I'm like, why do you hate me? But I do. I do sometimes get on those calls and not have my camera.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

It happens. And he said, that he was in his car, you know, and, like, he did have an accent. And I was like, well, this. I mean, maybe, you know, I don't know. Like, in hindsight, there were all of these moments.

[Lacy Mosley]

Long story short, causal. Why are you scheduling something and then you in your car for technical things, Right?

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Well, it was. It was to check my, like, audio levels and my camera, and, like, I set up my light and, you know, just doing the tech. So long story short, he has me log into my Facebook, and on the back end of Facebook, there's all these different weird settings and the stuff that I just never used before. And he was having me adjust the settings and add some paid promotions in order to get paid through Facebook. This is what he told me. And then as soon as I did it, nothing happened. And he was like, oh, I guess it's not working. I said, oh, I guess not. And then unbeknownst to me, whatever link that he was able to see through screen sharing, he used that link in order to add himself as an admin to my Facebook. So. And it was truly so quick and seamless. I didn't give him my password. I didn't give him my email. Again, this was a very long process because we had gone through multiple different calendar invites and coordinating with my management. All of it seemed on the up and up. The next day I went on my Facebook and there was, like, a strange man added to my Facebook account.

[Lacy Mosley]

I said, who is that?

[Franchesca Ramsey]

And then I was kicked out of the Facebook account. It was so upsetting and so violating. It felt so stupid. I was so mad at myself. And then I realized, like, they had been hitting everybody. They hit Arden. They hit like, they were basically going to every comedian actor in our little circle. And so thankfully, I was able to get my account back. I got, like, the Facebook premium in order to talk to somebody on the tech side, which that might be the scam.

[Lacy Mosley]

Now Facebook be like, well, if you want it back, then pay us.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

It was. I think it's like $5 a month or something like that. It's the only way you could talk to someone at Facebook. Otherwise, it's just like a black void. And they were able to say, working.

[Lacy Mosley]

With this scammer, they like, okay, steal their account for $5. It adds up. Okay. Mr. Zuckerberger knows how to make a coin. Okay.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Knuck if you Zuck if you will. Yeah, he wanted my. My $5 were the thing that pushed him over the edge into that. That top 1%. Yeah, it's. I made a video about It. And it's so sad because that video has gotten, you know, a decent amount of traction. But every single time, like, I always get people reaching out to me because they've seen that video and they're like, oh, my God, the same thing happened to me. My account is gone, and they're not able to get it back. And it's really. It's. It's wild that the scammers have now invested this much time. This is not a quick pump and dump.

[Lacy Mosley]

Oh, well, listen, scamming is a career, okay? It's a profession. They work just as hard as me.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah. And you. I think it's at the. I think it's that the recession has also hit the scammers because they're just more persistent because they have to work a little. They know we don't have any money.

[Lacy Mosley]

Right.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

And so they know they need to really.

[Lacy Mosley]

They're putting in the time, the effort. The fake receipts, they on Photoshop real bad. You know what I mean? They got indesign. They making magazines. They're working.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

And I fully believe that they're using AI for these. When you get those random text messages, I don't think those are real people. I think somebody is. Cause sometimes I just. With them, and they don't seem to resp. Like, they don't actually.

[Lacy Mosley]

They don't hit me back either. I'm like, hey, they do. What's the. What's. Yeah, Are you at the restaurant?

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, I'm here right now. I just ordered some onion rings. And then they're like, oh, sorry, wrong number. I'm like, no, it's not the wrong number. It's the right number. I'm here at the restaurant. They're like, you sound cute. I'm like, okay, this is not a real person. So I don't know what the end game is with those, but they have gotten more aggressive.

[Lacy Mosley]

It's honestly starting to upset me. Like, as someone who has been in scams for almost a decade now, scam is the brand.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

It is.

[Lacy Mosley]

You know, I know. I get on Good Morning America and I tell Michael Strahan I'm not a criminal. It's like, first and foremost, I guess we gotta get that out of the way. But now every morning, I'm getting like six to ten scam phone calls and at least eight scam texts.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Oh, yeah, like, every morning, are they telling you that you owe a toll in Florida and in Georgia, and if you don't call this number, you're gonna get arrested?

[Lacy Mosley]

Or they're like, oh, we know you got debt. Do you need $50,000 of consolidation? No. Or they're like, what are you talking about?

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Hey, Barbara, I saw your resume, and I have a great opportunity for you where you are gonna make $3,000. And all I have to do is watch TikToks. And I'm like, first of all, my name's not Barbara. Second of all, I' already watching TikTok.

[Lacy Mosley]

We love your Instagram profile. Would you like to work with our brand? And. And we'll pay you to post, like, every day.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, every day. And, you know, they're getting. They're getting somebody. In this economy, people need jobs.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

And especially if you're somebody who has been applying for lots of jobs and putting your phone number and your email on a lot of these sites, it's conceivable that you might get one of these messages and think, oh, this is somebody calling me back about an application. I'm just confused.

[Lacy Mosley]

Like, what do.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

What do they then do? Do you think they ask you for money?

[Lacy Mosley]

No. They send you a fake check that'll take money out of your bank account. Oh.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Oh, okay.

[Lacy Mosley]

And right now, people need. Honestly, it's sad that the economy has hit scammers so hard. Cause they didn't used to have to do this much.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

No. I think they.

[Lacy Mosley]

They're hurting just like us. I feel for them.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

Okay.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

I'm not there yet. I love that for you. You have ascended to a higher plane of consciousness.

[Lacy Mosley]

Their businesses have been destroyed. Okay. They need work, too.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah. Not me, but, I mean, you have to applaud the ingenuity. They're trying new things, so.

[Lacy Mosley]

They are. And they're working really hard. Almost makes me want to give it to them, but.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Almost makes me want to start a podcast where I honor them every week.

[Lacy Mosley]

Some we hate.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Almost makes me want to write a book. Almost makes me want to have a TV show. Scammers putting the spotlight on you.

[Lacy Mosley]

I'm trying to support you. Okay. Because I know y' all need us. It's like, who are they gonna rob if we're not here?

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah. No, that's fair.

[Lacy Mosley]

Scams.

[Commercial Narrator]

Check out the new season of Reasonable Doubt, now Streaming on Hulu, L.A. s most successful attorney, Jack Stewart, defends a young actor accused of murder. Follow Emyatzi Coronaldi, Morris Chestnut, Joseph Sakura, and guest stars Cash Doll and Lori Harvey as they fight their personal battles in the spotlight of the year's most sensational trial. In the pursuit of justice, every move counts. Reasonable Doubt, Season 3, now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

[Lacy Mosley]

I' ma put you on, nephew.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

All right, Unc.

[Lacy Mosley]

Welcome to McDonald's. Can I take your order, miss? I've been hitting up McDonald's for years. Now it's back. We need snack wraps. What's a snack wrap?

[Franchesca Ramsey]

It's the return of something great. Snack wrap is back. Your home should show off who you are, telling your story in every detail, meeting you where you are. Ashley has styles that balance timeless appeal and modern trends to bring your personal look home. Pairing eye catching design with features like stain resistant performance fabric, Ashley offers well crafted, affordable pieces built to stand up to real life. Plus, they provide fast, reliable white glove delivery right to your door. Visit your local Ashley store or head to Ashley.com to find your style.

[Lacy Mosley]

Now let's get into historic hoodwinks.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Let's do it.

[Lacy Mosley]

This is where I will regale Francesca with a famous con caper. Group of criminals we don't know yet. Maybe we like them, maybe we hate them.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Okay.

[Lacy Mosley]

I don't know. We'll get your opinions all throughout. So a UC Berkeley professor who had been presenting herself as Native American for decades recently apologized because she. And it turns out she's white.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, I. I feel like we have had so many Rachel Dolezal. You will. There will be a day in hell that is marked specifically for her. I'm going to say that she is the reason for the season of all of these people cosplaying as other races.

[Lacy Mosley]

Listen, but at least Rachel went out and got herself a perm and a tan.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Listen, I'm not gonna give that white woman any a sliver of an inch of credit.

[Lacy Mosley]

This is. And. And.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

And she had the nerve to be a professor.

[Lacy Mosley]

Oh, yeah. She hopped in our spaces and started running them.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, well, that's what Rachel was doing, but that's what this mama was doing, too.

[Lacy Mosley]

Mm. And. And. And look. She said, look. I looked it up. It turns out I'm just like Elizabeth Warren.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

I feel like she knew before she knew before she looked it up.

[Lacy Mosley]

I don't know. She was like, I'm a little bit native. We. We.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

I could be sure.

[Lacy Mosley]

So childhood powwows, which I'm just me, for instance. Oh, is this her? This is her. Okay, look, she looks like she could be a little native.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah. She got the dark hair, the hooded.

[Lacy Mosley]

Eye, a little olive skin tone. Yeah.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Okay.

[Lacy Mosley]

She wearing the jewelry, so at least she pays some natives to have the drip.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, I. I can't see.

[Lacy Mosley]

See, see? No, no, no, no.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

No, I just made a noise. I didn't say anything yet. I. I could see that people might have been assuming she was native, so it was probably a thing she was hearing a lot. But I still am going to go with my gut here that she knew. That she knew from the start. But the only thing that I'm giving her is that visually, it's not like she's doing, like, brown face, which Rachel Dolezal was definitely hidden.

[Lacy Mosley]

That Tanner Latifa collection and. And rubbing that on every day.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

I mean, she. Maybe she was just going with the bit after a while. Sometimes you just got to go with it.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah. I don't know. I'm not. I'm not into it.

[Lacy Mosley]

Well, Elizabeth Hoover, that should have been her first giveaway that she wasn't native. Grew up in Albany, New York, thinking she had mixed Mohawk and Migmak. I think I'm saying that right? French, English, Irish and German ancestry. Her mother, Anita, told her about her great grandmother, a Mohawk woman who married an abusive French Canadian man and drowned herself in a river in order to escape him, leaving five children behind. That's a lot.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, that is a lot.

[Lacy Mosley]

She was the last of the Mohicans.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah. I mean. Yeah. Okay. I'm glad to get a little bit more context here. It doesn't. It doesn't make it that much better.

[Lacy Mosley]

But, like, it's kind of a traumatizing story for your mom to tell you. Right.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

And you don't want to be like, that sounds fishy. Like that's giving victim blaming. So she wanted to. She wanted to believe. Yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

So Anita, her mama, took her children, including Elizabeth, to powwows in western New York and New England, where Native Americans would play music, share crafts, and dance. Elizabeth made friends with other kids, like her friend Tammy, who's also came to the powwows to reconnect with native culture they inherited, but not had grown up with. Um, and look, we. Powwows.com. what's. I didn't even know about this.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Oh, wow.

[Lacy Mosley]

See, they tell you where all the pow wow's happening. We got a veterans pow wow in June.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Okay, well, you know what?

[Lacy Mosley]

Drums along the Hudson.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

When you. When you first said it, in my mind, I was thinking just like, very stereot. Like white people trying to emulate Native Americans but knowing that they were going to again, the bar is literally in the earth's core. But they were obviously supporting local Native people by going to these events. So. Okay.

[Lacy Mosley]

By the time Elizabeth was a teenager, she had taken on a megamak name which translates as mountain flower, which she says was given by an elder at a ceremony. Okay, so she got. She got rebirthed.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah. Okay. I mean, she really went all in.

[Lacy Mosley]

Mm. But the dedication is there.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

I'm. I'm waiting for the red flags to show up. Cause I really have a feeling before she got all the way to sign him at W2, she knew something wasn't right.

[Lacy Mosley]

So she was quoted in Parade magazine in 1996 speaking out against racist mascots in sports. See? So she abdicated.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Okay.

[Lacy Mosley]

The quote is being of Native American descent. I'm annoyed at mascots like Indians or chiefs or braves and the mock war whoops and chanting that often accompany these names.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, she's not wrong.

[Lacy Mosley]

She's not wrong.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

You don't have to be native to have some sense.

[Lacy Mosley]

That's true. But she was, like, giving it more credence because she was like, also, these are my people. So that's why I'm very mad and upset.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

I'm very mad that she took away an opportunity for a real Native person to be quoted in that article, but that's just.

[Lacy Mosley]

I mean, she being the ally. Listen, all these protests recently against Trump and the administration and all these people showing up to stop ICE detainment and things, it's mostly been white people. And the protests are less dangerous when it's only white people because the police are like, oh, we don't have a chance to beat up Negroes. Oh, okay. I guess we'll just let y' all be.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

The protests have gotten so chill. There was one that some white people started speaking out and saying, well, we need childcare. Yeah.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

I saw that on thread. She said, oh, it was kind of boring. There was no place for my kid to play mama. This is not. This is not a function. She said, oh, why is it? Maybe we could have a bouncy house or a ball pit at the next one.

[Lacy Mosley]

Listen, they're new to struggle, okay? Hey, they don't know that. You know, when you. When you marching on Selma, they. They hitting you with hoses or the police beating your ass. They're like, we need a date. Like, y' all don't got no arts and crafts for the babies or nothing.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, that's. That's not the vibe.

[Lacy Mosley]

But, like, y' all can't get a little smoothie pop up out here or something? I done been to so many protests where we walked, like, 12 miles and then had to double back. And I was like, we didn't get no freedom, did we? We just did we get closer?

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Like maybe. Oh, my God.

[Lacy Mosley]

But they're like, we need childcare and snacks, and it would be lovely if there was a police escort.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

So academics as a young adult. Being Native was a big part, probably the biggest part of her identity. At college in Western Massachusetts, she organized campus powwows. And her senior thesis was titled the Self Identification of a Mixed Blood. And I'm reading that right. Of mixed Blood Indians in the United States and Canada. After graduation, she went to Brown for a PhD in anthropology and later got a tenured professorship at the University of California, Berkeley. By her early 40s, she was one of the most successful Native American academics in the country. She published the 2017 book, the river is in Us Fighting, but not you.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

It's not in you.

[Lacy Mosley]

She don't know where to regret.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

No, no, no. 23andMe says, no river for you.

[Lacy Mosley]

She said, listen, I'm next to the river. I'm adjacent. I got my toe in the river.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

I have a riverfront property. She says, I have a timeshare at the river. I'm there every three months. I pay for it year round.

[Lacy Mosley]

So the end of that is fighting toxics in a Mohawk community. So she was fighting people in the community in her book or for the community. As her academic success increased, so did questions about her actual ancestry. So then somebody started being like, I don't know about this. Yeah, An Etsy shop exploded on her.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Okay, I know that's a.

[Lacy Mosley]

We're taking a left turn. Yeah.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

I'm intrigued. I do love Etsy.

[Lacy Mosley]

I do, too. I love being a little Etsy something. Okay. You can get anything on there. They make anything, and I love it. Which one you want? Michelle Obama earrings. They got it. Etsy sponsor the show. Yes. So colleagues and students noticed how Elizabeth was always beading, even during presentations at work, and how she would telegraph herself as a native in her dress and mannerisms in a way that many actual Native people do not. Elizabeth was happy to fuel fantasies of the white imagination of what an authentic Native person was, according to one graduate student.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, I mean, doing the beat, like, not the. To me, beating wouldn't have been a red flag, but to be doing it while you're also teaching, she gotta tell.

[Lacy Mosley]

You she native all the time.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, that. That's a little weird.

[Lacy Mosley]

I feel like she's wearing headdresses too much.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

She got on way too much turquoise. All the.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

In that photo, she had a lot of, like, big native jewelry on. Well, the one where she was on the horse she had, like, earrings on and, like, a necklace. Yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

Oh, my God. She's wearing a dream.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

She's got a dream catcher necklace on.

[Lacy Mosley]

Aren't you supposed to hang those in your house? I've never seen somebody just rocking it. That's not what.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, that's a little.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah, you got us there, bookie. That's a little bit too much. That's like when Jussie Smollett was wearing that noose when the police picked him up. It's like you trying too hard. Nobody's just gonna wear a noose after somebody tried to lynch him. You just wearing it.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

No.

[Lacy Mosley]

Oh, no. Yeah. She was really giving the performance, though. So Audra Simpson, an anthropology professor at Columbia and a member of the Mohawk Nation who was suspicious of Elizabeth from Jump, said it looked like Etsy Shop exploded on her.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Oh, we really thought she got into it with Ess.

[Lacy Mosley]

I did, too. I thought Essie was trying to fight her. What did she do?

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Audra said, I'm going to give you a creative drag to the 10th degree. Okay, I got it.

[Lacy Mosley]

So in the summer of 2005, Elizabeth had traveled to the area outside of Montreal where she said her Mohawk relatives were from to attend a POW wow. Afterward, in an email, she said she ran into people who knew, people I'm related to. So that was nice. So she was like, see? Yeah, I got an Indian friend. Yeah, I got rather a native friend. I got native cousins.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

But now. But now I'm wondering if that actually happened. She's. Just because she said it happened doesn't mean it happened.

[Lacy Mosley]

Okay, that's true.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

And also, we now know she's not native, so they. So, you know, like, were they just being nice? Oh, you look like somebody I. Somebody I know, you know?

[Lacy Mosley]

Or was she doing that?

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Or was she making that up?

[Lacy Mosley]

Cause I have definitely seen who looked like me and thought, like, I didn't realize who they were. Like, I remember being in Vegas, like, in some VIP section, and I went to a bathroom that was unisex, and I saw this man. And I was like, oh, my God, you look so familiar. Are you my cousin? And then we started walking together back to a table, and I was like. So he was like, okay, well, where are your family from? What's your last name? And I was like, what's your last name? Where your family from? Who are. And then eventually we got back to the table, and I realized it was Tank.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Oh, I feel like that always happens to celebrities. He was just going along with it because he thought you were cute. He knew that you did not know him.

[Lacy Mosley]

I really thought he was my cousin.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

He has been famous long enough to know that if a random person says, you look familiar, you know, no, we don't know each other. Yeah, you know, and that probably happens to you all the time. People are like, do I know you from somewhere? And then you're kind of like, maybe.

[Lacy Mosley]

Or my favorite thing is, like, I'll meet a fan, and they'll be like, lacey. And it's a certain way you can say someone's name that makes it sound familiar. But I was just like, fran.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, Fran.

[Lacy Mosley]

Hold on. Come over here, Fran.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Well, see, here's the thing that I have up my little sleeve is because online, I'm Chescalee. If someone says Cheska, I know they know me from the Internet because everybody in real life says Fran. And then everybody from my childhood says Francesca. So. And then sometimes people are like, chelsea. I'm like, it's definitely not Chelsea.

[Lacy Mosley]

It's Jessica Lee.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

But I could also understand, you know, that people have been listening to you in their ear for so long and have followed your career for so long, it does feel like they know you. And especially, you know, you're very active on social media, so I'm not surprised that your fans have that familiarity with you.

[Lacy Mosley]

But it kind of gets me. Sometimes I look up, like, who? Because, you know, if they don't know you, they'd be lazy. Oh, Lacey. Diva Lacey. They be like, Lisa Mosley. I'm like, hello. Like, I must know you. You yelling my name like that. So she said she ran into these people, and they were like, you my cousin? And she was like, yes. And, yeah, she could have been lying. How are we supposed to know? She telling the story?

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

But she never carefully researched her genealogy or looked for actual relatives. So I guess she was lying even when she was right. Because she knew that she was not eligible for tribal enrollment. There was no point, she said. So she was like, even if I found out where they lived, if they were my cousin, we can't get those benefits. We can't get the tribal benefits. She began teaching at UC Berkeley in the fall of 2020, which is when people started openly questioning her about her identity. At the time, she thought that it was just petty jealousy, like, y' all wanna be native so bad. Y' all wish y' all were native like me. Yeah, y' all could never. You can't even spell native. Her longtime romantic partner was a Crow photographer named Adam Sings in the Timber, who had been accused of sexual assault by multiple young Native women. So he was also denying allegations at the time.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Oh, girl, your discernment is not good.

[Lacy Mosley]

Oh, no.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Oh, that's not good.

[Lacy Mosley]

Is that. Is that her?

[Franchesca Ramsey]

No, that's. That's him. That's the guy.

[Lacy Mosley]

He's the photographer. But that's not her in the picture.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

I think in the picture we just saw before. Yeah, that's. That's them together. Oh, yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

He don't even look okay.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

So in 2022, Elizabeth finally did look into her genealogy and issued an apology for being white.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

The first step is admitting you have a problem.

[Lacy Mosley]

Oh, you know, white people do not want to apologize for being white. Oh my God. So in October, she essentially said. Essentially what I am currently left with is that I do not have any official documentation to verify the way my family has identified. A few months later, she published another statement which said. Fran, can you go ahead and read this statement?

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Oh, okay. Yeah. Let me get my fraudulent voice on. Letter of apology and accountability in all caps. I have brought harm and broken trust to the Native community at large and to specific Native communities I have worked with and lived alongside. And for that I am deeply sorry. I am a white person who has incorrectly identified as Native my whole life based on incomplete information and uncritically living an identity based on family stories without seeking a documented connection to the. Ma', Am, this is a long ass sentence. I have caused harm. I hurt Native people who have become my friends, colleagues, students and family, both directly through fractured trust and through. Through activating historical harms. This hurt has also interrupted student and faculty life along with your beating, ma', am, and careers. I acknowledge that I could have prevented all of this hurt by investigating and confirming my family's story is sooner for this, I am deeply sorry.

[Lacy Mosley]

I love that this apology has so much language of a good apology, but it's also saying my family lies. Yeah, I didn't know they lied to me and I didn't look it up. Cause they lied to me. So really they lied to me. I mean, look, and I'm a victim.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

She does, she does say, I acknowledge that I could have prevented all of this hurt. And to your point, she should have said that a little earlier. She should have said I am a white person who I incorrectly identified. And I also realized this is my fault. I could have done some research. The 23 of me come straight to the mailbox.

[Lacy Mosley]

No, she had to tell you how it wasn't her fault a lot before she admitted fault.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, I mean, and she also said like she Also kind of did the thing where she's like, I know a lot of Native people. I'm friends with y'. All.

[Lacy Mosley]

I was in the community. I live next to them. They are my friends.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

I supported y'. All.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

So really, how y' all gonna be mad at me? Cause I've been the homie, so what if I lied about it?

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Mm, yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

I mean, again, she knows that she could have just done a little bit more digging, and she didn't. And I think to me, that confirms she knew. She knew, she knew, and she just didn't. She just didn't think it was ever going to come to the table.

[Lacy Mosley]

And people started calling her out. And that's why she made this apology, because I think too many people called her out. So she was like, let me get ahead of it.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Lacy Mosley]

All my homies, Native. Okay. I've been to all the Pow Wows. Y' all see me. Y' all see me at the Pow Wows. Okay.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, you was there. But a lot of people was there.

[Lacy Mosley]

Nobody owns more turquoise than I do. Y' all know, but also, I. I could have looked into it.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

She. She really, really could have. Oh, and you know, the other thing that she mentioned that I think is worth noting is like, this is a. This is an issue, like, throughout history where people claim the Native American identity in order to get ahead. You know that commercial with the crying Native American with the garbage? That man is not Native American. And that is a very famous commercial that's like, won awards and shit. And he was non Native American.

[Lacy Mosley]

You know, white people have wanted to be Native American real bad for a long time. Remember Westerns where they would just put the white people in light skinned face. How are you?

[Franchesca Ramsey]

And everyone would always say Cherokee. Even the fact that Cherokee is a fucking car is crazy. Like, that's insane.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah, we all Jeep Cherokee.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

No, that's fucked up.

[Lacy Mosley]

It's fucked up that we've turned them into a scholarship. No, we've turned a lot of Native people to the point.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

That's what you talk about.

[Lacy Mosley]

All the teams, all the sports teams.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

I know, it's really sickening. And it's gotten to the point that because people are so divorced from actual Native Americans, they feel like they can claim it because it's not hurting anyone. I don't even know anybody. And it's like, yeah, I mean, we.

[Lacy Mosley]

Have a whole holiday where we lie about genocide.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Hello, Thanksgiving. Hello.

[Lacy Mosley]

Like, they love to be like, oh, well, the Pilgrims came over and the Native Americans was Like y' all come break bread with us. We love y'. All. No, y' all came over with a bunch of diseases and then started killing them people and stealing all they things. At one point, you were killing buffalo just cause you knew they liked to eat them. Like y' all hate them people real bad and now you're trying to rebrand it like. No, we love them. Look, we made them sports teams. We made them vehicles.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Even though they keep saying, hey, please don't do that.

[Lacy Mosley]

Shut up.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

We know better than you.

[Lacy Mosley]

Right?

[Franchesca Ramsey]

We are honoring you, you dumbass.

[Lacy Mosley]

Right? Shut up, bestie. We been besties. I don't the fuck you talk about you. You don't like what we did to you? No, we was having fun.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Didn't you see this whole Etsy store I opened in your honor that you.

[Lacy Mosley]

Don'T profit off of, but I do.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Aren't you grateful for all the shit I've done for you?

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah. We stole yalls tribal names and we made sports teams that we make money off of that you don't even. But we honoring you. Look at the photo. Look at the photo of the guy.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Look at this racist ass caricature that we made of you. Don't you feel proud?

[Lacy Mosley]

We are honoring you, friend.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Shut up.

[Lacy Mosley]

Shut your ass up.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

You beautiful, majestic native person. Shut up.

[Lacy Mosley]

Shut up. Yeah, y' all got here first and we stole everything from y'. All. Okay, Manifest destiny. God told us to steal. What do you mean?

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Just like the. The level of cognitive dissonance to just be like, I like, I know how to honor you. Shut up. Don't tell me how to honor you.

[Lacy Mosley]

I don't know, though. Manifest destiny is a banger. Like, sometimes I try to take that in my own life. I'm like, God told me to steal. God wanted this for me.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

I will also say manifest destiny. I love a portmanteau. I love when you can mix two words together. It is great. But in theory, in practice, it's not great.

[Lacy Mosley]

A higher power told us to take everything from you and kill you. Okay? Not. Not us. We didn't do it. Oh, my goodness. Robbery. What's poppin, congregation? Okay, I'm coming at y' all hot because we need to debunk some things about plan B. Emergency contraception, right? Now, listen, Plan B is not an abortion pill. It's safe, effective backup birth control. You take after unprotected sex to prevent pregnancy before it starts. And are y' all ready for the inside tea? It works by temporarily delaying ovulation and it will not Impact your future fertility. Because some days. Who know, someday you might want a little unemployed person in your house. Follow plan B on insta at plan B. One step. Use as directed. There are some days where you need to look great as ever, but you need to do it in half the time. For those days, there's Batiste, the number one dry shampoo brand in the usa. Like, there's been some days where I wrapped my hair up or it was straight or whatever. You know, it's getting a little. A little greasy, honey. Little look like I just ate some, you know, french fries and then rubbed all my edges off. So I love Batiste because really, when you put it in your hair, there's no residue. It doesn't turn white. It gives you just that little bit of volume and like, clean look that you need to go about your day. Because listen, we're busy, okay? Capitalism is trying to kill us. We have to be everywhere, all the time, all at once. And that's why I love Batiste. You can instantly refresh your hair. It absorbs oil grease so your hair looks and feels more clean with added volume and texture. It's great on your hair and easy on your wallet. Okay, look, I have like textured hair. Like, it's like A4A4B black girlies. You know what I'm talking about? I never thought dry shampoo could be for us too. My Batiste dry shampoo online or in store at your nearest retail color. That's the sound of your feet stepping on fresh fall leaves. That's right, y'.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

All.

[Lacy Mosley]

Fall is back and in full swing. It's the perfect time to refresh your wardrobe with pieces that feel just as good as they look. And luckily, Quince makes it easy to look polished, stay warm, and save big without compromising on quality. Quince has all the elevated essentials for fall. Think 100% Mongolian cashmere from $50 washable silk tops with y' all know I love and skirts. Perfectly tailored denim and all of the prices that feel too good to be true. But they are. By partnering directly with ethical top tier factories and cutting out the middleman. You know, I call him the middle scam. Quinn can deliver luxury quality pieces at half the price of similar brands. Now, y' all know the washable silk tops have been a staple in my closet. I just got their, like, long black. Like, I think it's like a woolish coat and the material is fantastic. Keep it classic and cozy this fall with long lasting staples from quince. Go to quince.com goddess for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com goddess to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quints.com goddess. Ever wonder why some trends are just suddenly everywhere? News flash. Nothing gets popular by accident. On the It's Been a Minute podcast, they take the things you and everyone else are obsessing over and show you the invisible forces behind the scenes that make us love or hate it. Listen to the It's Been a Minute podcast today. And fraud. I mean, we've dissected this apology. We know it's.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, I'm gonna say it's like a C. It was short.

[Lacy Mosley]

Was it?

[Franchesca Ramsey]

I think to. I mean, to. Her cry was two paragraphs. I mean, sometimes you see these. These apologies and they're really long.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

All that.

[Lacy Mosley]

They wanted to be convoluted. So you can't really, like, understand.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah. I mean. And again, to her credit, this is pre chat GPT, so you really knew. She put those.

[Lacy Mosley]

She typed at her.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

She really put fingers to the keyboard. It wasn't great, but she actually, you know, in a rare instance, she did.

[Lacy Mosley]

She just was raising her hand. Wait, is it post jet? It's very long, actually.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Oh, oh, we saw that. Oh, there's bullet points.

[Lacy Mosley]

Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, I had it so long.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Oh, no.

[Lacy Mosley]

Oh. Oh, there's a bibliography. Oh, my goodness. This is crazy. Oh, this is real. She's still.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

She has scrolling.

[Lacy Mosley]

Oh, they got. She got photos of her holding corn. She got a photo of her holding maids. Oh, I'm.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Oh, I'm done.

[Lacy Mosley]

I'm done.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Oh, my God. This is really. This is. That is way longer than I thought it.

[Lacy Mosley]

I thought it was only two paragraphs, y'. All. We'll try to post the whole apology on Instagram.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Cuz this is.

[Lacy Mosley]

It's comedically longer than we thought.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

There were like 14 bullet points.

[Lacy Mosley]

There's so many paragraphs.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

There's an addendum. Initial commitments going forward. Okay. Oh, yeah, this is. I have.

[Lacy Mosley]

Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait. Scroll up.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Hold on.

[Lacy Mosley]

Pause. In her commitments going forward, one of them says, I have put away my dance regalia. Ribbon skirts, moccasins and native jewelry.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

That sounds like the lyrics to a song. I have put away my dance regalia. Ribbons, skirts and moccasins. Like, right. It just sounds like laying your burdens down.

[Lacy Mosley]

Like, it just sounds by the river that she lived next to with all the native people. Yeah, she laid them all down by the river. It says, I begun to give away some of these things to people who will wear them better. She said, I gave all the drip back to the actual natives. Yeah, I returned. Oh, she said, I did reparations.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

I mean, I'm conflicted because I do think it's good that she's saying, like, here's what I'm gonna do, but. But, like, this is so long. There has to have been a shorter way to say all this, right? Oh, she does say, I will continue to funnel the proceeds from my talks and book sales in the native farm food sovereignty and educational programs. You know, I like writing a check. I will make additional donations to practitioners in these fields.

[Lacy Mosley]

Okay.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

I think that's positive.

[Lacy Mosley]

I mean, I just.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

This is.

[Lacy Mosley]

If it's going to be this long and this detailed, tell us exactly how much money you giving to them and where it's going to so we can verify it. You just said you was just gonna give money out to the ether people. We don't know. You didn't tell us how much money. So I don't know if you gonna give them money. It just sounds like you're like, and I will give them the money. Who is them?

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

How much money? When?

[Franchesca Ramsey]

I mean, look, I. Again, I don't know this woman. I'm not trying to give her too much credit, but I would hope that if she's saying this, knowing there's this huge spotlight on her, if she's really not giving money to somebody, the organization can be like, we don't know her.

[Lacy Mosley]

But we don't know the organization. Right. So how could anybody clack it and be like, she ain't send a. Cause she didn't tell us who she was sending it to. Right. So everybody could assume that somebody else got the money because she never told us who was getting the money. Yeah, yeah, that sounds like a scam to me. Scam 101. Scam 101. Yes, Jess. That's like, if I pretended to have, like, cancer and then people caught me and I said, you know what? I'm gonna support the communities and I will be giving back some of my book money for my cancer book to the cancer people. Who is that? It's vague.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

It's very vague. You're not wrong. You're not wrong. It's vague.

[Lacy Mosley]

But she made it so long that it seems like it's something.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, this is really, really long.

[Lacy Mosley]

And now remember, she's tenured, so there is a bullet point that says, I will work with campus partners to provide support to students who have been directly impacted by my inaccurate self identification and an indigenous scholar. So she's saying I'm keeping my job of, you can't work with y'. All.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

I don't want to talk to you. But, like, that feels very manipulative.

[Lacy Mosley]

It's. She's like, oh, my gosh. Based on ongoing personal reflection, conversations with colleagues, and especially keeping in mind the communities I have worked with and for. I will gear full research towards supporting people and communities with whom I have an authentic relationship and will people. Authentic relationship.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

I have to jump in. I think you're struggling because this font is atrocious.

[Lacy Mosley]

What is this? Papyrus?

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Why did she pick this? It feels like she tried to pick a font that looked kind of like, rustic. You know what I mean? Like, it's.

[Lacy Mosley]

I.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Maybe this is just like the graphic design nerd in me, but, like, this is not like, a standard Ariel.

[Lacy Mosley]

I mean, she couldn't write in Comic Sans a Futura.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

No, I'm saying usually you use, like, a slim sans serif font. This has, like, a little.

[Lacy Mosley]

She could have just gave us a Times New Roman to be for real.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Well, not. Not easy to read. But I will say the whatever is on this font, it's like. It's like, too slim. It's like, slim in certain parts and, like, a little thicker in other parts. Do you know what I'm talking about?

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

Okay. I'm gonna try to get through this. It's like a sentence, but it's a paragraph.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Oh, God. Yeah. This person is a professor, and you don't know how to edit. That is a sentence that is 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 lines long.

[Lacy Mosley]

I will gear future resource towards supporting people and communities with whom I have an authentic relationship and will accept spaces where communities ask me to step back, AKA these are still my homies. So if y' all want me to slide back up, like, I'mma come. I will be transparent about my identity journey and the new role I'm occupying. Because I'm not leaving babes. I'm just gonna be white now. But I still know everything about natives. I know more things about natives than you do as a native. Like, I done studied everything, so y' all not gonna kick me out. In addition to having my research serve the communities I work with, my desire to continue. I'm sorry. To continue to contribute to student learning and academia more broadly. And I'm. I am committed to approaching this with thoughtfulness towards what has happened. Okay, that last sentence is just like. She was like, I'm Just saying stuff at this point.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah. She really is.

[Lacy Mosley]

Continue contribute student learning academia well.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

And also thoughtfulness towards what has happened. Lies. Lies is what has happened.

[Lacy Mosley]

Right? What do you mean, thoughtfulness to what has happened? Yeah, I'm very thoughtful about the lies I told y'. All.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

I've thought a lot about them.

[Lacy Mosley]

I thought a lot about them.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

The thoughts are thoughtting now.

[Lacy Mosley]

I'm still thinking I'm gonna be here, and I think y' all are gonna welcome me.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

I mean, she knows she's still gonna be there. Cause like you said, she's tenured.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah. We can't read no more of this. But it's very aggressively long. Like. Yeah, she was saying anything and everything.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Oh, shout out to your producer. Being like, ah, ah, ah. Don't give her no credit. It is actually. I want you to see how long it is.

[Lacy Mosley]

Jess is crazy for putting that up. Like, that made me scream. I was like, oh, my God, it's so much more. Oh. Oh, lady, why would you do this? Like, why would you do this?

[Franchesca Ramsey]

It feels like when you get a book report and you're just trying to, like, fill up the word count and just get it as long as possible. You're like, and furthermore. And so and such. And another thing that I really liked and the thoughtfulness in which this paragraph was accountability. Student.

[Lacy Mosley]

Students contribute life from the window to the wall till the sweat dropped down my ball. Skeet, skeet, skeet, skeet. That gets me at least 11 more words. Like, what?

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, she was dragging it out.

[Lacy Mosley]

In the beginning. God created the heavens and the earth. Like, girl, where are we going? Where are we going? Going? I'm lost. Yeah, That's a good scammer thing, though. That was like, kind of. Somebody probably read that and was like, wow, she really is sad about this.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

I mean, she tried to cover all of her bases again, Like, I guess that counts for something. But I think just being succinct would have been. Would have done a little bit more.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah, but that would have been. She was being for real. She wasn't being for real. Yeah, she was like this. What people like, they like when it's long.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

So what happened after she made this apology or this statement?

[Lacy Mosley]

So pro and con scammer arguments. Is she or is she not a scammer? Some people argue Elizabeth is innocent because she didn't know the truth herself. She was just believing what she had been told.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah. I don't know. I think that would have held more weight if she was, like, a kid, but she was fully in Adulthood. And, you know, this was a huge part of her identity and part of the work that she was doing benefited.

[Lacy Mosley]

Financially, extremely from it.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Exactly. And there were multiple points throughout the story where people were kind of giving her side eye. And that would have been the time if she really was like, no, I'm ten toes down. That would have been the time to be like, I'll just look this shit up. I'll prove it to you. But I think she was kind of. Cause she knew.

[Lacy Mosley]

Knew.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, I think she knew.

[Lacy Mosley]

Because if you have a. Like a receipt. Oh, you gonna grab it if people are challenging you, Right. I'll go straight to cvs, print that long bitch out and be like, look at this.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Right? And she. I think. I think she knew she didn't have it, especially because her mom said it was like a great grandmother. It's not that far removed. You don't have anybody in your family who has some photos of her, you know, somebody that you can call and, you know, she said herself, well, I know I don't have enough ancestry to qualify and get tribal membership. Okay? So, you know, just to me, it does feel, like, very convenient that she can present it as if she just didn't know and she just was going along to get along. But I think she did know.

[Lacy Mosley]

Well, a lot of people agree with you, Fran, because they think it's weird that she didn't look into to any of the real answers. Like you just said, was it because she suspected the truth and didn't want to know? Sometimes we gotta be a little delulu. What does it mean to be authentically Native? Indigenous identity is complicated, but essentially it doesn't matter if you claim to be Native. It matters if a tribe claims you to be one of them.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Oh, they not like us.

[Lacy Mosley]

Listen on a beat, ho.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, they said, you know what? We good.

[Lacy Mosley]

We good.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

It's a no for me, dog.

[Lacy Mosley]

We're gonna pass.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

I love that.

[Lacy Mosley]

You know what?

[Franchesca Ramsey]

That. And again, I think this is all speaking to the fact that she did know she knew. She probably couldn't actually withstand the scrutiny of an actual investigation.

[Lacy Mosley]

But sometimes it is complicated. Like, my family has Choctaw Indian descent, but it's likely because y' all maybe don't know this, but now Native people did own slaves. So not like we gonna like, yeah, people. All people are imperfect. Nobody needs to be violated because they're human. But y' all did have some slaves, champ. So it's not based on physical appearance. Obviously it's not based on genetic testing, although you can do that kind of testing, and it might be useful in some cases. Senator Elizabeth Warren.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Oh, girl.

[Lacy Mosley]

Famously tried to use DNA results which showed some evidence of Native American in her ancestry probably six to ten generations ago to rebut Trump's fake Pocahontas nickname.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Oh, God.

[Lacy Mosley]

Warren is not a member of any tribe, and DNA tests are not typically used as evidence to determine tribal citizenship. So she ended up apologizing for the DNA thing at a forum on Native American issues, saying she was sorry for the harm that she caused.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Mm. Again, this is interesting because I didn't know that the DNA of it all doesn't really matter.

[Lacy Mosley]

Right. Like, we like you. We like you. We don't. We don't. And it's not based on the experiences of your upbringing, obviously, because many children were forcibly removed from their native communities by white people and later accepted back into their tribes when they wanted to return. You know, that's like the schools and stuff that they did. In any case, a Elizabeth Hoover was not authentically native and joins the list of history's Pretendians, including.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

That's a great name. I'm sorry. Pretendians.

[Lacy Mosley]

Pretendians.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

That's. Yeah, That's a banger. I like that.

[Lacy Mosley]

Don't call me an actor. I'm a Pretendian.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

No, I mean, I think I just. I like that there is. I mean, I don't like it, but it is sad that there are so many that they have a word for it, but the word is very clever. I like a poor man, too, whoever came up with that Prithibian.

[Lacy Mosley]

Okay. Also love the. That her name is Elizabeth Hoover, because now you get to go in the hall of fame of Lizzies.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Oh, yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

Scammer Lizzies.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

That's true.

[Lacy Mosley]

Okay, we got that one from Grey's Anatomy.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Oh, I didn't know her name was Elizabeth Jew. And then I think of the girl with the turtleneck.

[Lacy Mosley]

Oh, yes. You talking about my queen.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Elizabeth Holmes.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yes. Lizzie Holmes. Her deep ass boys. Her deep ass boys voice.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

Lizzie Holmes. And now we have Elizabeth Hoover. And you know what? I'm gonna go in and throw you in there. Elizabeth Warren.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, we have a.

[Lacy Mosley]

We have a great haul of Elizabeth scammers. We might have to honor them on the page because it's giving. Don't name your baby Elizabeth unless you want him to. You don't want him to do crime. Okay. That's a crime name. It's like naming your baby Matt. Like they're gonna do crime. What do you mean?

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, so.

[Lacy Mosley]

So the Pretendians include Iron Eyes, Cody, AKA the single tear. Crying Indian. That's the one I just talked about. Yes, yes.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

I didn't know what his name was.

[Lacy Mosley]

Who was sad about litter in the 1970s, but was actually an Italian American.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, there it is.

[Lacy Mosley]

And his real name was. Espera Oscar De Corti.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

This is him.

[Lacy Mosley]

Oh my gosh.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

Damn. Damn.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Okay, and see, and see, he has a little tan. He has like almost like a red colored.

[Lacy Mosley]

Because he's Italian. Right?

[Franchesca Ramsey]

But like, that's really up. That's really fucked up.

[Lacy Mosley]

And how they braided his hair. And they're like, just put some. Put a little string in it. That. That's really gonna sell it. Pollution is a crying shame. Now the message is.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, good.

[Lacy Mosley]

No, the message is great.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

The message is you are just not the one to do it. We absolutely could have done this without the racist caricature. He's like, but how would I get my SAG AFTRA card right?

[Lacy Mosley]

What do you mean? Trying to get that sweet, sweet insurance. I need a check too. So the next pretendian is Sasheen Little Feather. They attended the 1973 Academy Awards on Marlon Brando's behalf and declined his best Actor Oscar in protest of Hollywood's depiction of Native Americans.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Now, girl, she said, it's wrong when y' all do it. It's okay when I do it.

[Lacy Mosley]

I never knew about this one. I thought she was a real Native woman.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

I did too.

[Lacy Mosley]

I thought she was standing on business.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

She said, rules for thee, but.

[Lacy Mosley]

But not for me.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Wow, that is fucked up.

[Lacy Mosley]

Oh, and look at her in all of her native drip. Uh huh. Damn.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

And all of her, like, hoity toity ness, like, y' all are doing a bad thing.

[Lacy Mosley]

Making a statement. After her death, her family, like, revealed that her name was Maria Louise Cruz and that she was Spanish, Mexican and not Native American.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

And you know what her family is fucked up to. They said, you know what? But they also said, let's wait till she dies. Let's spill her tea after she's gone.

[Lacy Mosley]

At this point, we could have just all believed it. I don't think we have to go back and tell her business she did.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

I. But I'm of the mind. Like, why did you wait until she was dead?

[Lacy Mosley]

She must have not been very kind to her family.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

But then she could have done it before she died. You know, it doesn't really sting if she's not here.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah, but maybe she was a narcissist with a huge person that. And they didn't want to. They didn't want to get in the way. I mean, she done made it to the Oscars. Yelling at white people while being white.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

That is fucked up. No, well, she's Mexican, you know, I.

[Lacy Mosley]

Mean, there's white Mexicans.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

She a little brown.

[Lacy Mosley]

Like.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Well, this isn't black and white, so.

[Lacy Mosley]

I don't know, she might be indigenous.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, she could be. But she. She knew she was embellishing.

[Lacy Mosley]

Maybe she. Okay, look, there are a lot of Mexican indigenous people, so maybe she was like, I'm on the edge of being native, but here. Pretty.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

But here's where she fucked up. She pulled this cartoony ass name out of a hat when her name was Maria.

[Lacy Mosley]

Little Feather is crazy.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah. How do you solve a problem like Maria? You change your fucking name to. To Sasheen Little Feather. That is messed up. That's messed up, yo.

[Lacy Mosley]

It is a wild name to give yourself.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Oh, and she was wearing the out too.

[Lacy Mosley]

I'm Lacy Buffalo. What are we doing? What are we doing? That's a caricature of native people. And you. You got away with it. I guess outfits are really a part of it. You gotta.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, it's one of those things where I. It. It seems like they are benefiting from the fact that if you are dressed in a certain way, the average person is probably not going to question it.

[Lacy Mosley]

Right.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

You have dark hair, you have olivey skin. You're wearing something that has, you know.

[Lacy Mosley]

And that dress eats like. She's a baddie.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Oh, she's gorgeous. She's stunning.

[Lacy Mosley]

Why would we not believe a baddie? But she turquoise and some drip. She.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Miss Little Feather not telling the truth.

[Lacy Mosley]

It was a little lie. Little Feather. So where is she now? We're talking about Elizabeth.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Okay.

[Lacy Mosley]

After the bombshell I'm white announcement, some of Elizabeth's former students wrote a letter demanding her resignation. The letter was signed by hundreds of students and scholars from UC Berkeley and other universities, along with members of Native American communities. It also called for her to apologize, stop identifying as indigenous and acknowledge she had caused harm. So she did publish that long apology. It was cause she was bullied to do so. But she still has that teaching job at Berkeley. She says, I still did all that work. I did the research, I did all the learning, I did the teaching. And I'm not going to have all of that just canceled and thrown away because people are upset about this.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

You shouldn't have said it. Don't. Don't say any of that, girl. That's for the group chat. She didn't need to tell us that.

[Lacy Mosley]

Teaching jobs in higher education are actually a hotspot for people pretending to be a different race. You know, transracial people in teaching positions are not only pretending to be something they're not, but acting like an authority on the matter. And, you know, that's where we kick into Rachel do all because she did come into a black space and then was like, no, and I also need to be the president of Negros.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah. And she changed her name, too.

[Lacy Mosley]

What was.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Oh, God, I don't know.

[Lacy Mosley]

Catchy.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, something. I don't know. I don't. I don't remember what it was, but it was a very.

[Lacy Mosley]

It's something like that. It's like, in catchy. I'm very black. Africa.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah. Not. Not cute.

[Lacy Mosley]

And catchies and Bobby. Yeah. You know, scammers love, like, putting on a culture as a costume. I guess they all did it. Apparently, this is in the handbook. It's like, no, you have to do this. Yeah, obviously.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Rachel, doll, listen, it's hard to get a job out here, but everybody that decides that they're going to be a Pretendian or, you know, the economy is hard.

[Lacy Mosley]

It is. White people were like, we got to start being black now to get a job. Who would have thought? That's crazy. It's so hard for us to get employ. They were like, yeah, we got to start being black. Yeah.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

So it's like the Prendians and the new Negroes. So. Yeah.

[Lacy Mosley]

So we know that Rachel was the head of Spokane, Washington's chapter of the NAACP and also professor of African studies at Eastern Washington University before her parents. Her parents outed her as white in 2015 and outed her as white as gray. Crazy, y'. All. I've never. I've never come out, but I think it's time.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Oh, well, I think it's time for.

[Lacy Mosley]

Me to come out. Any confusion about, I think it's time you are to come out as black. I was keeping this as a secret. There's a lot of shame. I wanted to wait for my grandparents to pass away.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Oh, my God.

[Lacy Mosley]

But now I can tell.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

I always knew.

[Lacy Mosley]

I always knew.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

I'm.

[Lacy Mosley]

I don't still. I'm still not comfortable sharing it with everybody. So y' all can tell.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

You're just telling all of your listeners that that'll keep the secret, save millions of people.

[Lacy Mosley]

But, yes, I've been black this whole time, and I'm really. And I'm sorry for the.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

The harm I caused for all the people you deceived.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah. Because I know they were tricked. They didn't know oh, Rachel. So we know. In February of 2024, Rachel was fired from another teaching position in Tucson, Arizona, after administrators found her Only Fans account. I don't like slut shaming, so I don't agree with that one, but. Oh, yeah, she was going by Inetiallo.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yes.

[Lacy Mosley]

That's how she changed her name from Rachel doa. It's funny to me that her parents outed her as white during her life.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Oh, yeah. I think that they had, like, lost touch with her because she had a documentary on Netflix.

[Lacy Mosley]

I saw it. She was taking them braids out all wrong. Why are you cutting whole micro braids out of your head?

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Because you're not. She's not black. She don't know what she's doing. But I guess her parents had lost touch with her. And when they. When they heard about her working with the NAACP is when they came for her.

[Lacy Mosley]

Oh, okay. She.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

She said, I got a blue check on Instagram. She says, I'm not black, but I am blue.

[Lacy Mosley]

Amen. Okay, listen. And she has black children. I feel bad for her little black children, cuz I know that must have been embarrassing for them.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Yeah, that's. That's rough. It's hard. It's hard enough out here.

[Lacy Mosley]

It really is. And then your white mama telling everybody she black.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

I mean, that's white mom behavior for sure.

[Lacy Mosley]

It really is. And you can always tell when somebody got a white mama. Yeah, I know it's insult. I'm sorry if it's insulted to y', all, but I. I currently dating someone mixed race, and one of the first things I asked them was like, your mom's the white one. They were like. I was like, am I wrong? You're like, no, you're not wrong, but why would you say that? Oh, man. So that brings us to the end of a beautiful native story that was not native at all because everybody was white. We always ask on this podcast, friend, where would you like to be found? Anything you want to plug? Share social.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

I have nothing to plug. I've been taking an extended break from social media, but I'm across social as chescalee. I'm on TikTok as Francesca Lee.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah, I love your TikTok.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Hopefully. Hopefully I'll be back sooner rather than later. I'm trying to get these deadlines, trying to keep these lights on. So I said, let me take a break. But yeah, I'm glad that I get to spend some time with you, though.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yes, I'm glad, too. As always. If you want to see the photos of all of these white people. I was gonna say native. They almost got me. They almost got me. They almost tricked me. Scam Goddess Pod on Instagram, if you want to talk to me. Scam Goddess Pod on if you want to follow me and my shenanigans. D I V A L A C I D valacy on all platforms. If you want to read my book, that is definitely. I tell you I'm black in the book. I don't lie. Scam Goddess, you can get that wherever you buy books or if you want the audiobook, you can get that online wherever. And all of the episodes of Scam Goddess are streaming now on Hulu. And all the episodes of Going Dutch are also streaming now on Hulu. Congregation. I want y' all to get out there and stay. Stay powing.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Stay whoever you actually are. Be yourself. Be you. There's only one you, so be you.

[Lacy Mosley]

I was like, no, don't stay powing.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

No, stay being who you are. Yeah, stay, stay whatever it is, say, putting raisins in the potato salad. Stay, you know, stay true to who you are.

[Lacy Mosley]

Yeah. Cuz whatever you are is beautiful. Embrace that.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

We can't all be beautiful. But, but, but you can be yourself.

[Lacy Mosley]

You can. Okay, y' all stay being you. Or don't tell me about it if you don't want to. Scam Goddess. Scam Goddess stars and is hosted by me, Lacey Moseley, AKA Scam Goddess. Our producer is Jessica Sis Neros and our audio engineer is Rich Garcia. Research for the show is conducted by Kate Doyle. Stay scheming. What if we could reduce carbon emissions and strengthen the economy? At Exxon Mobil, we believe both are possible. As a global leader in carbon capture and storage, we're empowering industries to reduce their emissions, all through technologies that are creating job opportunities in America. How's that for a win? Win. ExxonMobil. Let's deliver.

[Franchesca Ramsey]

Save up to 30% on fall meal essentials during the Spice Up Fall event now at Whole Foods Market with sales on organic honeycrisp apples and winter squash. Grab fresh and mild swordfish steaks for a cozy pan. Seared me main. Or make a hearty stew starring no antibiotics ever. Short ribs for something sweet. Indulge in limited time. Pumpkin spice treats from the bakery and find even more in the aisles. Spice Up Fall and save at Whole Foods Market in store and online.