The Fake Invoice Scam That Outsmarted Silicon Valley w/ Kiran Deol

Summary

Scam Goddess – Episode Summary

Podcast: Scam Goddess
Host: Laci Mosley
Episode: The Fake Invoice Scam That Outsmarted Silicon Valley w/ Kiran Deol
Release Date: November 25, 2025
Guest: Kiran Deol (comedian, writer, actor)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into one of the most jaw-dropping financial scams to have rocked Silicon Valley: the 2013 fake invoice/invoice fraud scam engineered by Lithuanian scammer Evaldas Rimasauskas, who managed to scam tech giants Google and Facebook out of over $120 million. In her signature comedic, freewheeling style, Laci Mosley, joined by returning guest Kiran Deol, examines not just how the scam went down, but also the absurd vulnerabilities of the world’s biggest companies and the psychology (and art) of scamming. The episode also covers scams in listeners’ lives, the epidemic of loneliness that fuels romance scams, and why, despite being horrified, it’s hard not to respect the sheer ingenuity behind some cons.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Scams in Daily Life & The Art of Micro-Scamming

[03:53–09:00]

• Kiran shares her recent “micro-scam”: Pretending to be her mother to dispute a recurring phone charge from a “large unnamed corporation”, explaining how fully embracing the character helped her succeed.
  • “If I am playing a 67-year-old Indian woman, let me hear it, then I am a 67-year-old Indian woman!” (Kiran, 06:11)
• Laci and Kiran riff on how dealing with corporations means operating on the same shifty terms: “If you can’t beat them, join them (with your own mini-scam).”
• Burnout and overwork as “the scam of American life” are discussed.
• The pair joke about corporate culture: “What am I supposed to do? They got the money—what am I supposed to do?” (Laci, 05:09)

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2. Scam of the Day: The Lithuanian Fake Invoice Scam

Setting Up the Scene

[14:00–23:00]

• In 2013, Evaldas Rimasauskas begins a years-long scam targeting Google and Facebook, using fake companies and invoices to redirect legitimate payments.
• Laci: “So in 2013, a scammer from Lithuania stole over 120 million from tech giants using a taste of their own medicine.” (14:44)
• Kiran: “It’s hard to empathize with big tech...they kind of ask for it.” (21:44)

Anatomy of the Scam

[23:01–30:49]

• Evaldas and team research company hierarchies and procedures by calling their customer service lines, building a “dossier” of inside info (names, contacts, processes).
  • “Anything can be a dossier if you believe.” (Kiran, 24:30)
• Creates a fake company (Quanta Computer, closely mimicking the legit Taiwanese supplier) and opens bank accounts in Latvia and Cyprus.
• Laci highlights the power of subtlety in phishing: using slightly altered domain names, logos, and believable email chains.
  • “What did I tell you about scamming and spelling?” (Laci, 26:49)
• Fake invoices and contracts (including forged seals) sent to employees responsible for processing large payments.
• Over two years, Google and Facebook wire more than $120 million to Rimasauskas’ accounts.
  • “Facebook and Google employees responded by wiring more than 120 million to the fake company...Multiple links. That’s how they try to get your mama.” (Laci, 32:31)
• Funds laundered across multiple international banks; most accomplices never named or charged.

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3. The Vulnerability of Tech Giants and Broader Lessons

[33:18–38:24]

• How could companies of this scale not notice $120 million missing?
  • “If $3.77 gets skimmed off my tip, I’ll know immediately!” (Kiran, 34:44)
• Corporate shame leads to underreporting these crimes (“Large corporations hate to admit that they got scammed by a single individual.” – Laci, 36:14)
• Discusses the math: Five years in prison for possibly $35 million (after fines/restored funds) — “That’s $7 million a year in prison!” (Kiran, 38:43)

[39:13–40:31]

• Invoice fraud is so rampant it has bankrupted companies (e.g., Diesel Jeans, FACC aerospace, Mattel via the “Barbie scam”).
• The pair lampoon how easily busy, distracted corporations get conned by well-crafted but bogus emails: “They trusted the email too much, bro.” (Kiran, 42:08)

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4. Romance Scam Hall of Shame: “Love Boat Lolita”

Scammer of the Week Segment
[46:22–73:36]

• Recent Oklahoma scammer Christine Joan Echo Hawk (“Love Boat Lolita”) scammed $1.5 million from elderly women by posing as men online.
• Classic romance scam moves: requests for large sums to help with “oil tanker” emergencies, elaborate stories.
  • “He said he owed $120,000 so the boat could return to shore. Once the rig returned, he could move in with her. Christine, you jumped a lot of—that’s a whole sentence right there.” (Laci, 51:40)
• Discussions on the epidemic of loneliness among the elderly and how it fuels these scams.
• Echo Hawk laundered money through crypto, faces up to 64 years in prison, but only ~$260k in fines — “The government caught a little lick in here too!” (Laci, 73:15)
• Kiran and Laci highlight the emotional and ethical distinctions: “I do not condone anyone scamming elderly people...[they] are already at the end of their lives.” (Kiran, 47:21)
• The importance of teaching older relatives FaceTime/Zoom to avoid faceless scammer “relationships.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “When you embody a character, believe yourself. That’s something I think our president does very well. He just be saying anything.” – Kiran (09:51)
• “If you didn’t learn anything from Kiran’s mama’s story... why would a company call you to tell you they’re taking your money?” – Laci (16:13)
• “Anything can be a dossier if you believe.” – Kiran (24:44)
• “Five years in American prison is trash, but you’ll be all right. Again, obviously, this probably isn’t gonna happen to you on this scale...but please check your emails.” – Laci (44:56)
• “Do you think...we could replace the emotional satisfaction of these scammers with ChatGPT?” – Kiran (56:59)
  “I don’t want anyone talking to ChatGPT. It’s learning too much already!” – Laci (57:46)
• “Can you imagine selling your house to give money to a man?” – Laci (59:34)
• “People are not content.” – Laci (75:31) (On the street-interview TikTok phenomenon and dehumanizing web culture)
• “Remaining vigilant is the new form of self-care.” – Laci (passim)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 03:53–09:00: Kiran’s “mom scam” story & day-to-day micro-scamming
• 14:44–24:00: Overview of Lithuania fake invoice scam — Setup, anatomy, “dossier-building”
• 26:09–30:49: Fake company/quasi-corporate espionage, creating the forgery
• 32:29–38:24: How the money was moved, why companies didn’t notice, aftermath
• 46:22–73:36: “Scammer of the Week”—Love Boat Lolita, romance scams & the elderly
• 66:13–68:50: Kiran’s “Go Harvard” reveal and higher-ed name-drop banter
• 77:00–78:50: Reflections, Kiran plugs her comedy special “Joy Sucks,” closing notes

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The Episode’s Tone

Hilariously irreverent, sharp, and inviting; the hosts never lose sight of the human cost, but take obvious delight in pointing out the foibles and blind spots of institutions and con artists alike. The conversation bounces between personal experience, social critique, and scam breakdown with quick wit and knowing self-deprecation. Frequent asides and playful banter keep the episode feeling loose and spontaneous, but the research is solid and the laughs are as well-earned as the lessons.

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Final Takeaways and Advice

• Big scams (even against giant corporations) often start incredibly small and simple: one plausibly-worded email or phone call.
• Even the most sophisticated entities are vulnerable to old tricks: “scamming and spelling” matters!
• If you get an email about a payment you don’t expect, never click links or provide information — go directly to the source, call back on published numbers, and trust your instincts.
• Loneliness is now a public health issue and an avenue for exploitation — make time for your elders.
• Corporations and individuals alike need skepticism as a core skill—“stay invoicing, but never get got.”
• “If you want to scam, scam upwards.” (with tongue planted firmly in cheek).

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As Laci signs off:
“Congregation, I want y'all to get out there and I want y'all to stay invoicing, okay? All of our time is valuable. You stay invoicing… stay schemin'!”

Transcript

[A]

Scams C. Robbery and Fraud. Scams. CA. Robbery and Fraud. Scam Goddess. What's poppin, Congregation? It's your girl, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess, back with a podcast all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. It is a comedy podcast. I shall remind you. Oh, my. Don't so good, Y'.

[B]

All.

[A]

Y', all, I gotta rest. I got to rest. I got to sleep. It's crazy. I'm a whole brand new person. Okay, they tried to kill your favorite bitch, but she's still kicking. Uh, let's get into it here, y'.

[B]

All.

[A]

If you are part of the congregation, welcome back. Praise. Praise be. Praise be. Okay, a scam. Amen. Uh, you already know that I'm very. What? Yes, Thrilled. Elated, Excited. But today we have a comedian, an actor, a writer, someone I've worked with. She is now in charge of Wednesday night prayer meetings. Please do not forget to bring the last four digits of your social to those because she is a repeat guest on the show. She was the lead in Mira Menon's film Didn't Die, an official selection of Sundance Film Festival 2025. Okay, we about to be skiing the slopes, honey. She recently released a one hour comedy special called Joy Suck on comedy Dynamics. And look. Remember waking up at five years old, excited and joyously ready to start the day. Then we grew up to a pandemic, inflation, and so much more waxed up. Okay, well, Joy stuff offers an alternative to find Joy despite the suck. Don't we love that? Yes. Congregation, please welcome the talented, beautiful, wonderful, hilarious queen friend of mine, Karen Dill. Back to the show.

[B]

Thank you. So what a beautiful intro and beautiful voice to go with that intro. I could hear the rested tones.

[A]

I feel like sounding different. I'm hearing it in my own ear. Makes it turned out.

[B]

You sound like you're getting eight to ten hours a night.

[A]

Oh, wow. Well, not right now, but I'm getting enough. Yeah, I'm getting enough.

[B]

She was like, it's up from. It's up from three to five.

[A]

No, the scam of burnout is people don't tell you it takes more than, like, a long weekend or even a week to, like, get out of burnout. I was in burnout for, like, a solid. Well, technically, like, probably like, four years, but sure. Yeah. But now we're out.

[B]

I just remember. I re. I can remember working with you. I can remember being on a set and you were like, yeah, girl, I just got out of major surgery. And I was like, what are you doing here, babe? I was on Lopez, I said, babe, what are you doing here? You should be at home. And you're like, it's fine. And I was like, doesn't.

[A]

Is it?

[B]

Is it?

[A]

Yeah. At that point, I still had like, liquid. I was like, three days off of this. I just left the hospital. And I was like, hey, girl.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was like, let me see if I get all my black into where I just sit down the whole scene.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. You were. And then you were essentially like. You're like, I'm just gonna sit. Please join me. Let's sit down and eat lunch. But I've got to stay sitting because I've just been through major surgery. And I was like, what?

[A]

I was like, don't tell nobody. No sh. Yeah.

[B]

Yeah, that was. And you made it through. Nobody knew. Nobody knew.

[A]

Is why not recommended though a scam. And speaking of scams, I have to ask you, Karen, it's been a minute since you've been on the show. Well, actually, you were on in San Francisco, so almost a year. That was in January 2024.

[B]

Exactly a year. That was so.

[A]

Such a good time.

[B]

So your congregation in real life, I mean, they are.

[A]

Aren't they wonderful?

[B]

They are. They're followers.

[A]

I don't see. We don't. We. We all going together. Okay.

[B]

I was gonna say you're the cult leader I aspire to be.

[A]

Oh, my goodness. No. When you say cult leader out loud, then people start leaving the cult. You got. This is a community, y'. All.

[B]

Oh, this is a community. I'm so sorry. I guard. Scratch that.

[A]

Scratch that.

[B]

Yeah, scratch that.

[A]

Y' all never heard that. Remember it different.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So I have to ask you, Karen, like, what's your relationship with scams now? Like, it could be what scams and the zeitgeist you love right now, hate right now. It could literally be anything. But I'm just curious to scams.

[B]

I said, top down. Bam.

[A]

You can't beat them.

[B]

Yeah. If you can't beat them, take your own little microcosm of a scam and join them. Figure out what that is for you.

[A]

And what's that for you if it doesn't disrupt it?

[B]

Yeah. For me it was. Thank you so much for being mindful. I was home helping my mother, a 67 year old Indian woman, get some of her money back. And so it was a lot of back from whom? One of the people like corporation. Let's say an unnamed corporation.

[A]

Yes, an unnamed corporation that we love. If they sponsor the show. That's my favorite corporation. That one corporation. You Know the one that takes the money because they give it back?

[B]

Yes, exactly. Unnamed. Unnamed.

[A]

Unnamed.

[B]

Unnamed corporation.

[A]

You have to tell me after though.

[B]

I know. Are they. I was like, is unnamed corporation a sponsor of this show? It would be great if it was like just all corporations.

[A]

That's what we're going towards. That's what we want. Is all corporations like Sam got it sponsored by Black Rock. I'm like, okay, listen, they had the money, y'. All. What I'm supposed to do? What am I supposed to do?

[B]

Every hedge fund. Every hedge fund.

[A]

Did I tell you how much I love the Coke brothers?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

My favorite guy.

[B]

What are the ones the almond farmers like? The almond farmers who like have the almond empire here in California.

[A]

I don't know about the nut empire, but I do know that is one of the imports that France actually does get from the US or some parts of Europe is almonds. Yeah, apparently we. The almond guy.

[B]

There's some, there's, there's a, there's a family of billionaires who controls like the water in like Northern California and has siphoned all the water. Anyway, different episode. We're going to do that a different time.

[A]

Controlling water is crazy.

[B]

Little brain, little brainstorm. The natural. When you're going after the natural resources, babe, you're like next level. No, this is very basic stuff. This was, you know, she was owed money and it's hard for her to get it back because she's work for a non corporation. No, this was like she, she had, you know, she had some of those like charges, like she had been charged a bunch of. And so I was trying to get her a refund on this money. And so the way to do it is you have to pretend to be the person. So I was pretending to be my mother. But we've worked together and you know that if I am acting and I'm doing any role, I take it seriously.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And so if I am playing fantastic actor playing a 67 year old Indian woman. Let me hear it then. I am a 67 year old Indian woman. Do you know what I mean? And it's like, and I make it subtle. I'm still gonna use an iteration of my voice, but I was on the telephone with the corporation.

[A]

Hi, this is Susie at Unknown Corporation.

[B]

Yeah, and I said, yeah, like I'm having a bit of trouble with my account. Like, and I'm sorry, you want me to follow how many links. I am a 67 year old Indian woman. I'm. There's no one here to help me. My Mother bursts out laughing because she's listening. And it's like, do you know how fucking disruptive it is for the woman that you're playing to be looking at you and laughing and staring at? It's like, bitch, I'm trying to help you. I'm trying to help you and your character.

[A]

She was enjoying the performance, but she was like, girl, it's not a live studio audience. This ain't Lopez versus Lopez. Like, this ain't. This ain't none of the shows. Like, chill out.

[B]

I'm not like. Like, if I'm doing the work, I have to believe I'm you. So don't you sit there laughing. Do you know what I mean? Like, I believe. And that's. That was the Trumpian element. Like, I, I believed my.

[A]

I was believe the lies. So then it's not a lie anymore, 100%. Okay.

[B]

I had to believe that I was that 67 year old woman. And then it was like her laugh broke me out of it. And I was like, this is no good.

[A]

Like, you reset. You were like.

[B]

I said, I looked at.

[A]

Can I get another take?

[B]

I said, I said, get out. You gotta leave. I like, I thumbed her out like she was a hitchhiker.

[A]

Okay, so what. What I'm still trying to figure out. I know we can't say the corporation, but what were you trying to get money back for? So they were just doing charges to her account, like a recurring charge.

[B]

There was like a.

[A]

Can you tell me what field unknown corporation is in? So I can get a. What do they sell?

[B]

What do they service? This was, this was phones.

[A]

So they're selling phones.

[B]

It was, this was. This was a phone. This was a phone provider, carrier company. Okay, so.

[A]

Well, one thing I can tell you is that this is not Mint because they have great customer service and Mint does sponsor the show. Okay. Okay, so it's not mint. We're gonna say that right now. See, get with mint. 15amonth. Anyway, so. I'm so serious. It was not. But I can't. But. So, okay, so this is a phone service and they are overcharging your mom a reoccurring charge for a wi fi, extra text.

[B]

All of this. Yeah. Okay, think about, like, think about that from that.

[A]

So was she trying to leave said company or was she trying to.

[B]

Like, she was trying to get the charge off and she was trying to get it so that. That wasn't happening. That's. So sometimes, like when you leave the country, for instance, you get charged like a fee for like international or what so that you can travel and then you're getting charged a fee. But she was getting charged this fee even though she was, even though she wasn't traveling. And she wasn't traveling and she had tried to cancel it. And then they were like, hey, like, follow this series of links and then we'll be able to help you.

[A]

And then I said, that's a good scam right there. The next time somebody tried to break up with me and I don't want to leave them, I'm like, okay. Follow this series of links to do a conscious uncoupling. It is 12 links.

[B]

It's 12 links. And that's when I said, I am a 67 year old Indian woman. I grew up without a bathroom in India. How do you expect me to follow that to Susie?

[A]

Unnamed corporation.

[B]

I will go there. And I.

[A]

They were like, we need you to click this link. You were like, I don't have a bathroom.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I said. And then, and then, and then I could tell he was like, he was like, the man was so upset. He goes, you need to get someone to help you. And then he was like, don't worry, I will help you. I will take the time to help you.

[A]

That's beautiful. I was like, I just started talking about the whole plot of Slumdog Millionaire. At some point they probably would have realized I was lying. I was like. And then that's when I decided to discover dance.

[B]

Exactly, exactly. So we, but it was a success and we got it back. And I mean, listen, I think that, you know, I'm not a, I don't like where the country is personally at this particular moment.

[A]

I don't think anyone's really loving it.

[B]

You know, it's not, it's not the, it's not my vibe. But if there's something that you can take in your tiny battle towards the David versus Goliath of whatever, you know, the corporation is, it's that when you embody a character, believe yourself. And that's something that I think that our president does very well. I think whenever he's talking, I think he believes himself and he just be saying anything.

[A]

It's wild to me how we just have people just saying anything now. Like, I think that all politicians lie, of course, but it used to be like an efficient amount of lies, like not too much where you got caught that he just, he just be saying stuff. He literally just be saying stuff. And I think that is so fascinating that his cult followers are in such a deep cult that like anything that he says, even if it's a contradiction of thing he said five minutes ago, it does not matter. They will figure out a way to be like, he's trolling you. I was like, in what world do you want. Want the president of the United States to be trolling you? We've never had a president troll us before. It's not something we've ever wanted out of our presidents. I wasn't like, I don't want my president talking about some lol. I don't want our president on whatever Twitter, racist social that they are, you know, sending out. Be cool.

[B]

Be cool.

[A]

The president literally tell us, be cool. Hey, I've never had a president in my lifetime been like, hey, y', all, chill out. Like, be cool. I got this. Yeah, y' all gonna get y' all 401k.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah.

[A]

Y' all stopping.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, Exactly.

[A]

Making up words.

[B]

He's like, the other. I mean, but it's so perfect for your. Your pod because it's like, at the end of the day with, you know, with this. With this figure. It's. It's belief. People believe him. People believe in him. Or they. It's like, you might.

[A]

And I mean, I think we all kind of know, like, way that it's kind of an untouchable sycophant group. But I just. Sometimes I like to read stuff that he says in, like, Obama's voice because he thinks that Obama's black ass could have never gotten away with. And just like, all right, everybody be cool. Get out there and be cool. Stop tripping. Okay? I've got this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I'm telling you, these countries, 75 countries are kissing my ass. Like, he actually said. He was like, they're kissing my ass. Look, I'm trying to deport as many people as we can. Hopefully El Salvador. Hopefully you open up some more prisons. Because, you know, we're going to start with homegrowns next. Like, I cannot imagine anybody else saying this stuff. And it is wild to me. Scams C. So, Kieran, we're gonna move into our next segment here, which is Historic Hoodwinks. We switched it up a little bit. Okay? Cause, like, the girls were like, get to it. And I'm like, okay, I don't. First of all, I'm gonna stop listening to y' all because that is not your. That's not what we do here. Okay? You need to get more Megan Thee.

[B]

Stallion, I will say, because you're a community. This is a community.

[A]

It is a community.

[B]

This is the gardening part of the The. This is the gardening part of the congregation.

[A]

No, but I have to say I'm gonna stop listening because they know I'm lying. And then they're gonna keep with their suggestions and their demands because that's what they do.

[B]

Like, I got it.

[A]

Yeah. But I feel like if I say this, maybe some people will be like.

[B]

Like, they're gonna stop.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I couldn't believe how many on the last one I did, how many comments there were about your voice. So many comments on your actual, literal voice.

[A]

Oh, yeah. No, you know, this is.

[B]

People are very invested in how you talk and, you know, what you do. And I said, and they have thought.

[A]

They have a lot of scam that I'm in is like, once you open yourself up to public, then they have plots. I get emails now that are just critiques. As always, y' all email the podcast if you want to snitch on your friends, family, and your enemies. Amgoddespotgmail.com but please stop sending me emails about how I pronounce things. What am I supposed to do? It's done. The episode is out. And they'll be like this, okay, now I do say Occam's Razor. Now, you know what? Sometimes it's nice.

[B]

What is that?

[A]

Occam's Razor just means that the simplest solution is oftentimes the correct one or, like, the simplest conclusion. I know what it means. But I was saying. I think I was saying, like, ok, Cam's razor. And they were like, that's not how you say it.

[B]

I'm not familiar with either of those phrases.

[A]

That just means I read y'. All. That means I read it somewhere. Okay. I didn't just hear it and regurgitate. Anyway, this is all personal grievances, and we're gonna get into historic hoodwinks here. Let's get it popping off. So, Kieran, we're gonna stay in the financial area today for scams. I'm glad that you were able to have a David and Goliath situation where you threw, like, a pebble at the lion. And lion was like, ow. Here go your money back.

[B]

Like, yes, that's exactly what happened.

[A]

Lion's still here. Lion's still there.

[B]

Lion's like, ra Queen, right?

[A]

Like, ow.

[B]

She was acting for a good 47 years.

[A]

Give me a little money. Go get two eggs. So let's get into historic hoodwinks here. Today we are going to Lithuania.

[B]

I love, I love, I love Mid Europe.

[A]

Yes. And this is 2013, so we're taking you back. Y' all that was 12 years ago. Can you believe 2013 was 12 years ago?

[B]

I disagree.

[A]

I do, too. I feel like we need to subtract four years from COVID So this is eight years ago. Mentally, it's gonna feel like eight years ago. But if we do look at a calendar, 10, technically, I guess somewhere somebody said it's been 12 years.

[B]

Sure, but what are facts when you live.

[A]

What are they when you live in America?

[B]

Yeah, facts.

[A]

Or whatever you want them to be, baby.

[B]

When you live in a crumbling empire. Okay, okay.

[A]

So in 2013, a scammer from Lithuania stole over 120 million from tech giants using a taste of their own medicine.

[B]

Okay, Phishing emails.

[A]

Okay, we love a phishing email. We hate them, but we love to read about them, so hopefully we don't fall prey to them. I feel like we all get them now. I have blocked so many phone numbers. I get phone calls every single day from. Do you want to solid. I can't even say. I was gonna say solidate. Solidify your student loans. I'm like, bro, I don't have loans that look like this. I don't. I don't owe anywhere near any type of money y' all talking about. It's like $84,000. I'm like, Bro, I have one loan, and there's, like, nothing left. And I'm like, why am I getting these? And every single day, I'll block a number. It's a new number. It's a new number. So they're fishing that way. Then they leave you a voicemail, Then they send you a text message. So I don't know what company has given away all of. But there it is. Also the phishing emails. You know, I always say. What do I say, Y'? All Check where the email's coming from. If it's Amazon.com, and the O is a zero, that is a phishing email. Yes. If anybody's reaching out from PayPal, Hotmail, that's not really PayPal. And you did not spend $476 at Apple. And don't click that link to try to dispute the charge. Cause they're gonna ask you to put your card information in to reimburse you, and then they're gonna take money off of your card because you never actually spent the money they were talking about.

[B]

And they. They never do that. The big corporations don't ever do that. They don't ever ask. They don't ever send you.

[A]

They don't ever send you a link.

[B]

Never send you a link.

[A]

And if you didn't learn anything from Karen's mama's story, where the. The company. The phone. Unnamed company, was still charging her for international rates even though she was in the States. Why would a company call you to tell you they taking your money?

[B]

Never.

[A]

Okay. Kerry had to put on a whole character. She had to go to Calcutta, really sink herself into the culture.

[B]

Thank you so much. Okay. It was Punjab. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah. Yes. And it was. And then she came and got on the phone and put on a whole performance. Okay. Took on her mother's essence.

[B]

I don't really feel like I did it justice here. I just want that the casting directors and the audience know that I'm capable of more.

[A]

You got an award. The reward was getting your own money back.

[B]

Thank you so much.

[A]

So that's what I'm saying. Like, that's the kind of hoops you have to go through to get money back. So if a company is reaching out, being like, oops, girl, like, click this link. Cause we gotta give you some cash. This is never that serious. And they try to alarm you with the amount of money. And one of our producers here at Serious Cody was telling me that she got an email that was talking about a computer purchase, you know, from a tech company, but it was saying that she bought a MacBook Pro but for like $800. You can't get that computer for $800. No, you cannot. So the funny thing is, is that if you don't know what that computer costs and that. And let's say you're in a more dire financial strength situation or even just most of Americans where, you know, rent, everything's going up, but the wage is not. Like $800 can fuck up a whole month. It can fuck up a year, depending on, like, most people are one paycheck away from being in an extreme financial situation in this country. So if you see an amount like that, it may alarm you. And that's what they want. So that you'll click the link and then you'll. But don't do any of that. Go check your bank statements if you're really concerned.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But I promise you, no one is ever reaching out to you from a major corporation trying to give you your money back. And they're not going to do it via email or via text. If they owe you the money, they could just put the money back because.

[B]

They got it from you.

[A]

They have money and they'll send you.

[B]

A letter or whatever. The other big thing you can do is, like, if somebody calls you or whatever. And they tell you, you got to do this right now. You'll send, hang up. And you can always call Apple, you can always call Amazon, you can always call your bank and call a number that is an official number. Be like, hey, I just got this call. Was this you guys?

[A]

Even if the number's from an official number, hang up and call back yourself. Because you can clone the phone number that shows up on your phone, but if you're a longtime listener, you know all of these things. If you're new, welcome to hell. So phishing emails is what we're talking about today.

[B]

It is.

[A]

She said church, I said church. Remember that diploma? Different. All right? We're all on one accord now. We all remembered it how it was said.

[B]

So.

[A]

So we're talking about the contrepreneur here, okay? So we know it's a scammer from Lithuania. Let's learn a little bit more about this contrepreneur. El Valdez Remasaskas. That's how you say it? That's a.

[B]

That's the name of a person.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I love that.

[A]

Yeah. So El Valdez Rimasaus is an Internet famous scammer, entrepreneur from a small Baltic nation. Sorry, a small Baltic nation in northern Europe. So I don't know why you would want to be an Internet famous scammer. All of those words don't belong together. You can be a scammer entrepreneur, but Internet famous, we don't. We don't need that. And we're looking at my guy here, Mr. Ramasocas, and I will be calling him Rumasausicus for the rest of the episode.

[B]

Is like a. I mean, if you're gonna be a scammer, it sound like.

[A]

Something freaky that they doing on some in some kind of key, but. Rhommesausocus. Is that him? Yes. And he looks like.

[B]

He doesn't look like a Rhommesocus.

[A]

He's contemplating. Yeah, he looks like an Alvaldes. We gonna call him El Valdis. So El Valdis looks like he's really contemplating his life choices. Or like he looks like, I don't know, like maybe he farted and a little poop came out and he's like, trying to figure out how he's gonna get to the bathroom.

[B]

He looks like, how am I gonna pay for med spa clinic? Because I haven't had, you know, the juvederm that I was looking for.

[A]

It's just like something very shameful about his whole appearance right here. Like, I wouldn't trust him with Anything. Cause he just looks like he just constantly makes decisions he regrets.

[B]

It's the before picture. You know, I'm currently getting on Instagram. I'm getting a lot of. I don't know if anyone else's Instagram accounts are this targeted, but this feels hurtful. I'm getting a lot of Indian women who are in a sports bra looking kind of, like, pretty, in pretty good shape, but a little bit pudgy. And then their stomachs are kind of hanging out, and then they look like they look kind of sad. And then it's like you click. And then it's like, ripped brown. Jillian Michaels. That's possible in 30 days. And this man looks like he belongs with those sad Indian women at the front. You know what I mean? He's just. He's got that, like. He's got the despair. He's got the despair in his face.

[A]

He looks like he at a funeral and he know that he killed him. Yeah. Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's just. It's a very untrustworthy vision that I'm getting here. So he's probably the second most famous Lithuanian after Anthony Kiedis of the Red Hot Chili Peppers, who's also from Lithuania. I did not know that. I love Anthony Kiedis. So in, you know, under the bridge downtown, I stole some stuff under the bridge downtown. I cannot scam enough.

[B]

But.

[A]

So he's the second most famous after him. So, Anthony, I think you're safe in that spot from Lithuania. Cause I didn't know about El Valdis. But we all will know about him now, right? So we're making him more famous, I guess. And in 2013. In 2013, El Valdez would have said that he can't stop stealing money from big tech giants. So in 2013, he was like, I can't stop. Won't stop, like, stealing money from tech giants. So far, I'm on Valdez's side because tech giants are really out here ruining everything.

[B]

Yeah, I don't. It's hard to. It's hard to.

[A]

It's hard to empathize with Big Tech. Oh, yeah. But everyone hold your black turtleneck real tight tonight. One for Big Tech. Okay. Say a prayer, Light a candle for Big Tech. Simply put, El Valdez was a businessman. He started a company, but it was. Was a fake company. Pretended to be a real company that did real business with Facebook and Google and got their real invoices rerouted to his scammer bank accounts. So he had a fake tech company. He said that he Was doing business with the Googles and the face in the book, and he was rerouting payments that are actually supposed to go to those companies to his own personal accounts. Okay. Though both those companies have enough money and have done enough to us. So baiting the fish, this is how he did it. He recruited a team of unidentified co conspirators, slash employees at this startup who helped pull off the fraud, but they were never named or charged. So, El Valdis, I'm even more on your side because he said, I'm not gonna snitch on my employees. You know, that's right.

[B]

He said, you take care of your people.

[A]

That's good scam benefits right there. He said, our HR policy is that we don't. We don't snitch.

[B]

He said, no snitching. And he said, well, he says, five for me, one for you.

[A]

Yeah, you know, I mean, listen, but for your safety, I'll take it. So beginning in 2013, I'm liking him.

[B]

More, even from his face.

[A]

Now I like his face again. Now.

[B]

He's determined. Now what I see in his beady little eyes is determination. What I see is, you will not break me.

[A]

And this is what we always saw. Remember it different. I might call this episode Remember it different or Gaslighting. But this is. Remember, this is what I said earlier in the episode. That his eyes were steely with determination that it was given, like Keanu Reeves, somebody just shot his dog, and he about to go full John Wick on all the big tech.

[B]

This is giving Nicolas Cage, I want my pig. Give me back my pig.

[A]

Yes. Okay. We're on your side like we always were about this.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So beginning in 2013, right, his employees start calling the customer service lines of Facebook and Google to get as much information as they could about the companies. Basically casing the joint via phone. Love that. Love calling the company like, hey, yeah, hey, Google. What's going on? How y' all doing over there? How to snap snacks?

[B]

Good, good. Wonderful. The snacks are actually excellent at Google.

[A]

Wonderful. You know, I've always had a passion for key codes. What. What's your favorite key code number? What's your favorite pin? Boo. Like, I. I wonder how they were getting this information. They would ask for details like names of key employees and their contact information, building up a dossier of data. So the fact that they could do this is probably Google. Y' all not paying whoever pick up the phones enough money because they weren't suspicious at all. They're just like, oh, who, oh, Mr. Google? Yeah, that's Tom T O M. Yeah. There's no H in it. Tomas. Mm. Yeah. Oh, his phone number. Hold on one second. Let me pull it up on the. Like. Why would you be giving out this information to just cold callers?

[B]

I love the idea that it's called a dossier of information. And I was like, meanwhile, it's just a guy in Lithuania sitting with a legal notepad making a list, you know, but anything can be a dossier if you believe.

[A]

I like calling it a dossier. It's more official. I'm start calling more things dossiers in my life.

[B]

Yeah. I. Or my friend says, you know, I'm going to have to add that to the file. And I go, what is this file? Where is the file? She's like, we're adding. I'm gonna have to add it to my notes. I'm gonna have to add it.

[A]

What notes? The file is a notes app. The file is a screenshot. Exactly. But now I'm gonna say dossier. Cause that sounds more official. So. Using these exploratory calls, the Froster team learned about Taiwan based Quanta Computer. Unlike the Australian and airline Qantas, which is an airline Quanta. They said, take the S off. We a whole different company. Stamp it. Look up there. That's Quanta. This is their logo. Their logo also kind of looks like the Obama. It does. I feel like, why is this funny? I feel like it was the Hope O. And then it was probably called Qantas Computer with the hope. Oh. And they were like, oh, actually Obama got that. Oh. They said, okay, move the little bit of the Hope over to the corner. And then.

[B]

Oh, I like that. See, look.

[A]

Look at how the. It looks like that. But they took it apart in clip art. It looks like they took that from the Obama thing. The yes, we can. And they were like, okay, just separate the clip art. Cause look how that. The. The red lines right there have a white box around. They made this in Word.

[B]

Oh, yeah. This is not a. This is.

[A]

I know when the little computer clip made something. And this was a paperclip who was like, you need a fake logo. We got you here at Word. So they had this fake logo. And then they were also like, oh, we can't call it Quantus. Cause there's already somebody with the S. So we'll do Quanta.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So Quanta is a. They make notebook computers, GPS systems and other electronic hardware for big tech companies like Apple, Amazon, Sony and Dell. Quanta makes Apple Watch, Touches, MacBook Airs, and Steam Decks among other things. So Aveda set up a company also called Quanta Computer in Latvia, another Baltic nation, impersonating the real hardware company. So remember, you have Qantas and they are Quanta. What did I tell you about spelling, scamming and spelling? You really have to have that hand in hand. That's why y' all need to stop being so reliant on AI and. Okay. Write things down. Know how to spell necessary without getting corrected.

[B]

Okay, so is this the. This is a. This one's the real company.

[A]

This is the. This is the real scam company.

[B]

This is the real scam company. This isn't.

[A]

See, you already getting confused.

[B]

I am confused.

[A]

That's how good they did. So you see how it says Quanta and not Quantus?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And it's supposed to be multiple Qantas.

[B]

Wait, so question, the Qantas. What is the logo for Qantas? Is the logo for Qantas also something as.

[A]

Let's see, the logo generation. We're gonna look at the real Qantas logo in one second here. But, yeah, so they're doing a bootleg thing, like I said, with the Amazon, where it's the 0 and the O, you know, switched out. Or if you get Amazon's dot com. Ain't no extra S's in Amazon. See, so this is the real Qantas. So the logo, the physical photo logo doesn't look the same. But I wouldn't have known the Qantas logo. And I bet you the people who are working with them at Google aren't, like, looking at their branding that heavily.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Like, why would you.

[B]

Why would you?

[A]

Especially if they work with so many different companies. They're not looking at their logos at all.

[B]

No, they're not. No, they're not. It looks suspect. It looks sus on the one that you've picked up.

[A]

But see, at least the Qantas logo here, like, you don't see, like, a clip art box around it. It's a real logo. This is definitely made on words.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, that. Honestly, Qantas looks quite chic.

[A]

I'm gonna give our boy Evaldes a pass here because we didn't have Canva back then where you could really get you a official looking all that We a have all. That's true.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

So, you know, he was doing the best he had he could with what he got. So Ovalde set up this company, right? And he's got it in Laia. And he's also now got his dossier of information from These other, like, real tech companies in America like Apple, Amazon, Sony and Dell. So he was the sole member of the board of directors of the fake company and opened and maintained and controlled various accounts at banks in Latvia and Cyprus in the name of the fake company.

[B]

He's inspiring me. He's inspiring me. And I. This episode might be the pivot for me from comedy to scamming, which.

[A]

No, no, you can't hang up the microphone. Kiri is so funny.

[B]

I said. I said, why not do both? That's actually. Yeah, like that Mia drummer, like the one who. She's like a drummer, but then she also went to Harvard Business School. That would be me. I'd be like a comedian, but also a scammer. I'd be like the worst version of that drummer.

[A]

Didn't Nelly Furtado go back to school?

[B]

It's difficult to say.

[A]

Yeah, I think she did.

[B]

She said, it's difficult to say. You're like, it's actually a quick Google away.

[A]

Yeah, no, it's difficult to say.

[B]

Yeah, it's hard to know.

[A]

I think she turned out the lights and went back to school. She said.

[B]

She said, I do not like this inconsistent income, baby.

[A]

Yes. So to pull the trigger on the scam, Evaldez and his co conspirators called Facebook and Google, pretending to be Quanta employees, requesting that they update their banking information for payments to the company. So they called Google and said, hey, y', all, the Google Bank. That information that y' all got right now for us, like, we need to update that. So they updated it obviously to their bank accounts in Latvia and Cyprus that are named after this company. Very close to this.

[B]

This is the linchpin moment getting this information.

[A]

So they created a fairly convincing, like, forgery email. And they would make several of these and they would use these emails with fake accounts, right? And they would look like they were sent by employees of the actual Quanta in Taiwan. They were good enough to fool goog, one of the biggest email account providers in the world. So the scammers sent phishing emails with fake invoices to employees at Facebook and Google who regularly conducted multimillion dollar transactions with Quanta. So Ovalda's forged invoices, contracts, letters that falsely appeared to have been executed and signed by executives and agents of the company he was impersonating. And he created false supporting documents for transactions, which even had fake corporate seals embossed with the names of the company. Because, remember, he got all the company info for the company he's pretending to be. And Google And Facebook in the dossier.

[B]

This is elegant. I mean, I'm looking at it. I'm looking at it on Google right now.

[A]

It's very classy.

[B]

And the spelling thing, I mean, revelatory. You know, I think of myself as scam literate. And every time I come here, I learn something. So thank you.

[A]

This is our reading rainbow. You learn how to read, you know, running flying high.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Scams are all in the sky.

[B]

You are my Mr. Burton. But better. But better. Better in so many ways.

[A]

We read our book, we catch our crook scamming rainbow robbery.

[B]

Ooh.

[A]

If you love a good scam and a good scream, you're gonna eat this new podcast up. It's called Tickle to Death, a horror comedy game show hosted by comedian Ross Hernandez from Ghosted and Hulu's Living for the Dead. Every week, she and her celebrity guests play ridiculous games and answer trivia question about scary movies. From slashers to Stephen King to the strangest final girls ever. It's scary, it's silly, it's just the right amount of unhinged. So grab your garlic, say your prayers, and hit play on Tickle to Death from Realm and Paramount Scares. Listen wherever you get your podcast, but be careful. Don't get Tickled to death. And Frau. Okay, so. So Facebook and Google employees responded by wiring more than 120 million to the fake company's bank accounts between 2013 and 2015, which Evaldas immediately transferred through banks in Latvia, Cyber, Slovakia, Lithuania, Hungary and Hong Kong.

[B]

Multiple links. Multiple.

[A]

Multiple links. That's how they try to get your mama. That's how they try to get your mama. Multiple links. Yep. They say you're not gonna catch us. We spreading this money out. Cuz you can't put 120 in one thing and get it all. It's just not gonna happen.

[B]

No, you can.

[A]

No, no, no, no.

[B]

You say 555-555-5553. 11.

[A]

Exactly. Exactly. And I wonder if he was going to all these places. I just want to imagine him like on a magic scam bus, just going from country to country, you know, with the frizzle.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

With the hair. Yes. A name like. What was his last name again? Remakasaskis. Yeah, Remakasaskis. That sound like Ms. Frizzle.

[B]

Yeah. With a look of determination. That's why his eyes were so beady in that picture. He was driving his.

[A]

We said that already. The episode.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

Remember? So experts call this approach the business email compromise or invoice fraud. So you Just send a bunch of invoices and. And low key. When you're getting those emails and those phishing emails day to day, for those of you listening in the congregation, those are a smaller version of these invoice emails. They're sending you the email saying that you paid this. You click a link. Now you're putting in information, and then they're charging your card. So the F, the B, and the other, I step in after, because I'm sure the real Quantus called and was like, hey, we know you ain't broke over there at Google and Facebook when y' all go pay these bills. And they were like, we paid them. And they were like, no, you didn't.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

I love this because eventually, like I said, the companies notified the F to be in the eye that they were getting some fishy emails. So Google and Facebook were like, hey, these emails are. There's some typos in here. They keep saying, like, be cool at the end of them, and we don't know why. So investigators froze some of the funds before Evaldez and associates could move the money. So scammers had already gotten about 23 million from Google and about 100 million from Facebook. When someone said, pump the brakes. That's how you know they have too much money. Like, why can you. Why are you not recognizing that 120 million went to the wrong place immediately?

[B]

If $3.77 gets skimmed off of a tip in my. By. By, you know, by a. My favorite bar in Los Angeles that I will be frequenting, where the security guard at the front tells me that my, and I quote, nose is cute, which I don't know why you're saying that to me. That's none of your business. You know, I. I will notify. I will know immediately. I will know immediately.

[A]

Okay, I wouldn't know about 377, but I do try to check. And, like, also I check if I'm like, where does. I've never Company before. Like, you know, like, you go through.

[B]

Yeah, but 120 million. So what do you. What's the number? What do you notice? Do you notice ten dollars? A hundred? What is your 100?

[A]

I'm not gonna tell you what my number is. I'm not gonna open myself up, guys. Any type of scrutiny.

[B]

I am here.

[A]

It's a penny. It's a penny.

[B]

You will notice. You will notice. She's like, I won't notice that.

[A]

Three, seven, single red cent. No. Remember? No.

[B]

Earlier.

[A]

I didn't say that. I said I would notice a Penny, you would notice what I said.

[B]

Oh, I did. Sorry, sorry. But it's only my right ear works.

[A]

Yeah, okay. We gotta get that fixed in for sure. Y' all adjust y' all settings at home too. So y' all heard it. Both companies said they recouped all or most of the money, but declined to comment on the exact sum. That's when you know they did not get it all back. Because large corporations hate to admit that they got scammed by a single individual because it's embarrassing to them. That also goes the same for rich people. I mean, I think that there's a level of shame that we talk about on this show when it comes to anybody getting scammed. And that's why they don't share information. And that's why the scam continues. However, when you're dealing with a large corporation like this, they don't want to admit that one random guy in Lithuania got them for, you know, $120 million.

[B]

Cuz that's a lot of money. And you're right for you to notice.

[A]

And then we're looking at you like, what are you doing with the money that you didn't notice? 120 million.

[B]

Yes, exactly. And how much money do you have in the account that you don't notice that? And why are you paying taxes?

[A]

Exactly. You got 120 million to lose. You using the roads, right? And y' all always getting a tax break from the government. Clearly you don't need it.

[B]

No. No, you don't.

[A]

So Lithuania authorities arrested Evaldes in March 2017. He started this in 2013. So he got away for four years.

[B]

It's a college. That's an undergraduate degree in scamming in fraud.

[A]

And he was extradited to the US a month later. Not the US Said, bring that ass over here. I wouldn't. I'm not.

[B]

Free trip.

[A]

I'm here.

[B]

Free trip.

[A]

There he is with the Lithuanians as they're taking. Okay, I love this hat all the way to the side. He's really giving fashion. He kind of ate him up in this photo. Like, I'm not looking at Ovalde. I want to know who this king is with his, like, hat. And I, I literally his military guard.

[B]

He does also have a vibe of humor. Man, I'm sorry this guy got caught. He's a friend, right?

[A]

He might be the homie or maybe he was trying to get face for the photo. But whatever it is, spacecraft kind of like, he's not. I'm not saying that in a cute way, but he's just. He.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

He's just compelling.

[B]

He's compelling. He's compelling. And it's also. It's also, what if he was one of the employees?

[A]

He's like, I hate to do this to you, bro, because I can't lose my job.

[B]

That's what I see. He's like, listen, I've always been on your side.

[A]

I'm gonna put the cuffs on loose my guy. Like, don't make too much eye contact. Don't look. Don't look. They was probably talking right before this photo was taken. He's like, look over there. Look over there.

[B]

Okay, we're not friends in this one.

[A]

So in 2019, he pled guilty to one count of wire fraud. As part of his guilty plea, he agreed to give up roughly 49.7 million that he had obtained from the scheme, and he was sentenced to five years in jail. Now, between Google and Facebook, not telling us the sum that they lost, and him giving up 4.97 million when we know that 23 million plus 100 million was gone, right? So we're looking at 123 million that was taken from these two companies. He's given up 49.7. The company said they got most of their money back, but they're not gonna tell us how much. I think it's some millions out here hanging around.

[B]

And honestly, that's a great deal. It's still. It's still great. The math on. The math on that. The math on that is mathing five years in prison, 120 minus 50. That's 70 million. That's approximately 70 million. That's.

[A]

Remember, the company said that they got most of their money, so they got 40.

[B]

Let's say they got half of it back, so they got 35. That's still 35 million for five years in prison. Now, 35 million for five years in prison. You do the math on that. What are we talking about? That's 7 million a year to be in prison.

[A]

Maybe. You know, and now we know he went to banks in Lafayette, Cyprus, Slovakia, Lithuania, Hungary, and Hong Kong. Now, if you went to that many banks, okay, so you went to six banks that we know of. Why not do seven? Why not make it an even 10? Do we know if we caught all the. The banks? I don't know.

[B]

Yeah, that's a good.

[A]

So he got this five years in jail, right? So invoice fraud has become so common that when denim company Diesel Jeans filed for bankruptcy in 2019, the company cited invoice Fraud for contributing significantly to its financial woes. So I guess everybody was scamming Diesel jeans. It's just so. And these are the jeans. These are the jeans.

[B]

Okay. Those are. That's a. That. That's a.

[A]

And people were purchasing these. I think I remember the brand Diesel. I want to say, didn't they make a shoe or something else, too?

[B]

I have a very ugly vestige. Watches.

[A]

They made Diesel watches. Justice told us they made watches. I was like, they made other stuff. This is a. This is an era in time. These. These wide, wide leg. They're coming back. Gen Z is bringing everything back. But I also love this because this was that time period where you would just see people, like, making videos that were grainy, where they were, like, moshing under a bridge to, like, you know, the angriest of the Caucasian music. You know, this, like, system of a down. This is, like, you know, we're really headbanging, and I've missed that. I want the white girlies to come back with some more angsty pop.

[B]

I think that, you know, somebody pick.

[A]

Up Hayley Williams playbook. Y' all put down Lotto's playbook and pick up Hayley Williams. That's what.

[B]

If you're gonna do angsty, angsty moshing under a bridge, I prefer that to a subreddit thread where you're trying to murder women.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We need to bring angst back. Because angst was when they would just let it out in a healthy way. Now they get on 4chan and they.

[B]

Let it out in a. In a community under that bridge. They made icon contact with each other. They jumped around. Maybe a couple of the men.

[A]

Nobody made fun of them jumping around. Everybody loved it.

[B]

Someone got a bj, then they feel better.

[A]

Yeah, that was a good time. We need to bring that back. The youth needs it.

[B]

The youth needs it's.

[A]

Cause they don't got garages no more. You know, millennials raising their kids in apartments. These kids ain't got no garage to beat on instruments with.

[B]

No, they don't.

[A]

They need it. Bring back garages now.

[B]

They're just in the tub. They're just on the toilet with their cell phones.

[A]

Yeah, they got whole gaming setups. You know, we need to get the kids outside jumping around.

[B]

Watch the lessons. I watch.

[A]

So in 2015, Barbie maker Mattel sent more than $3 million to a fraudulent account in China after a finance executive was fooled by a message supposedly sent by the new chief executive officer, Christopher Sinclair. So this is. Barbie was getting scammed.

[B]

That Was when. Wait, that's when racism works. You know, it's like, we thought that our new chief executive was in China. And they're like, sounds reasonable.

[A]

Sounds reasonable. That's correct. We get everything from China. So, yeah, no qualms here. Also love Barbie. Barbie got their lick back. They got their movie, they got everything. So Barbie's doing just fine. But I love this for them around the same time, because now I'm just kind of listing different companies that were also going through invoice fraud around the same time. Austrian aerospace parts maker FACC fired its president and chief financial officer after losing a thumping 46 million in a business email for fraud.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

I trust the email too much, bro.

[B]

This is a great business. All. I don't think I'm supposed to come on this podcast and be like, wow, I'm impressed by the work of these fraudsters, right? I'm supposed to be like, shame on them. Or like, learn how to not be a fraudster.

[A]

But clearly they have some leftover income. I'm not feeling too bad about this.

[B]

If I'm a recurring guest, it's like, in five years, you're going to be like. And this time on the podcast, and then my face shows up looking like this guy from Lithuania. And you're like, man, it does not look good on her. This bitch was looking like Usha Vance being all evil.

[A]

Oh. Oh, no. You would look better than that. Oh, thank you so much. Usha's not Asian, Will.

[B]

No, she is not.

[A]

I'm like, how you already got the presidential, like 8, 10 year age and you literally just got here, girl, what's wrong?

[B]

And she's like, she is the wife of a vice president with no cause except not looking in the mirror right now.

[A]

Yeah, girl. Usha, well, you know, I don't know. You married that man, so you don't have to just live your life the way that you choose knows to live it. That's between.

[B]

That's between. That's between her and her God.

[A]

Yeah, you'll make her squirly. But yeah, I mean, now I'm thinking about it. Why did popped in my head, I was like, I wonder. I'm so close to serious though. I could. Could I send some. Some invoices?

[B]

Yeah, I was like, I was like slowly going through my mind of like, I'm an independent contractor who is.

[A]

I definitely know how to make invoices. You know, I'm very good at that. So. So all in all here, like, I don't really feel too bad about this scam. Just because, like, big tech companies have a lot of money and they dodge a lot of taxes. So this feels like somebody just texting y'. All. And five years, which would mean if he was sentenced to five years in 2019, then this man should be free.

[B]

Yeah, he's back out. We should have a guest. I think he's. I think he's a future guest on the show. Have him bring some Latvian.

[A]

You back in Lithuania.

[B]

Lithuania. I'm sorry. Not Latvian. Lithuanian pastries. Have him bring a couple to the set and make him feel comfortable.

[A]

Zoom. You can stay over there. There. If you did. If you're not loving coming back to the States, I know the last time you were here, they put you in prison.

[B]

He made 7 million a year.

[A]

He could.

[B]

He could come to. In studio.

[A]

I doubt they got studio. I doubt.

[B]

And he can bring the pastries.

[A]

Five years for financial fraud, to me, seems bizarre, because American citizens typically get more than that.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah. If you saw $120 million, you would be facing, like, maybe even around, like. I mean, like, he got less time than Lizzie Holmes and Jen Shaw.

[B]

Who's this Talking about Jenshaw from Real.

[A]

Housewives of Salt Lake City who was scamming the elderly.

[B]

Oh, you. I think you should. Scamming the elderly is wrong.

[A]

Yes. Okay, so maybe. Yeah. More time. Cause it was more time for the elderly.

[B]

And the other thing is because Liz did the stuff with the science.

[A]

Yeah. And it was also affecting cancer patients. Yeah.

[B]

No.

[A]

Yeah. They needed more time. Yeah. He just thought. You know what? This is what I call justice.

[B]

Slap on the wrist. Slap on the wrist? Like, slap on the wrist?

[A]

Yeah. Five years in American prison, though. It is trash. But you'll be all right. I mean, again, obviously, this probably isn't gonna happen to you on this scale out there, y', all, but please check your emails. If you're getting invoices from random people, if they're trying to scare you with big numbers, like, don't respond. I just don't respond to them. I'll check my bank account every now and then, but I know it's fake.

[B]

And think about where you're sending your invoices. Congregation.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And who are you sending them to? I'm not suggesting that you scam big corporations. That's not what I'm suggesting. No.

[A]

And if that's what you heard, you heard wrong.

[B]

You heard wrong. That's not what we said. That's not what we said at the beginning.

[A]

But, you know, I'm always curious to get to know more of the ins and outs of big corporations. And I feel like I might have to make a call to a few secretaries and just like, hey, you know, I've just always been so curious about Johnson and Johnson. You know, I love the products and.

[B]

Huge fan of the shampoo.

[A]

Huge.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So who is our chief financial officer and who directly reports to them? I'm just so curious.

[B]

And what are the last four digits of your account number?

[A]

And yeah, when y' all send emails, is it [e-mail] justinjustin.net justinjust can't be that org.

[B]

It would be great if it was dot org. It would be great. It's like all of these companies have like addresses from like 1997. And then we're like, why are they getting scammed? Edu.

[A]

Like, what are y' all doing?

[B]

Y'?

[A]

All, we haven't done one of these in a minute, but we have enough time for scammer of the week.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So this is when we talk about a scammer that may or may not be worthy of our praise, but it's typically a little bit shorter of a story. But we have time in this episode, so we'll get to it. So scammer of the week is Love Boat Lolita. So we're talking about a romance scammer who has entered the hall of fame this month. Christine Joan Echo Hawk of Oklahoma scammed $1.5 million out of four elderly women by posing as men named James Morris or Edward Lots or Glenn God online. So I said, go dart. And then I said online. So this is her.

[B]

I'm gonna say, I just, I have to say this as someone who is supportive of the Lithuanian scammer and as someone who has played a 67 year old Indian woman in my own baby mini scam. I do not, I do not condone anyone scamming elderly people. They're already at the end of their.

[A]

Lives, especially elderly women. Because you have to think like these people might be widow women typically live longer than their male counterpar.

[B]

Or they using two finger. They're using, it's like that means even to log onto the Internet, they're using AOL dial up. They're probably using two fingers, two index fingers to type.

[A]

And that's how you know that they really are putting in effort. Because elderly people getting on the Internet, that's already a challenge for them. You know what I mean? That's effort.

[B]

That an hour and a half, even like a full 90 minutes just to get on that dial up mode.

[A]

You know how many Grandchildren had to help them to get on that site for you to just steal their money. That's not right.

[B]

It's not right.

[A]

It's even like, see, I told y', all, remember, call your grandparents. Cause they out here getting scammed by Christine Joan Echo. And this photo of her. I've never seen, like, this deep of a V neck on, like a prison fit. Like.

[B]

It is it.

[A]

It's giving plunge.

[B]

That is a plunging V line. That's a great way to describe that. That was like. That was a designer who came in. They said, but how do we make it sexy? Right?

[A]

Prison. But prison make it hot. Yeah. And I mean, maybe she was stealing all this money so she could get some. I feel like she's low on neck and she might have been trying to save up for more neck.

[B]

She was saying. She was saying, I wanna expose the decoupage, but I don't have the confidence to do it at Marshalls.

[A]

Yeah. I feel like if she just puts her head, like regular, like, you know, people, like, put your chin down, it would touch her clavicle. Like, it's like there's no neck. She's really is missing some neck. So I feel like maybe that's what she was on the quest for with these coins. She also looks like she's like mid convo when they're taking this photo. Or like, I just.

[B]

What.

[A]

What is this mug shot? I don't understand. But she was the one who was like, pretending to be men and catfishing these elderly women. And she scammed $1.5 million out of them. She got cash, checks, wired funds, and even tens of thousands of dollars in Apple gift cards from her marks who were all women between ages of 64 to 79 outside of Oklahoma. That's all standard romance scam script. Right? But Kirstine put her own spin on it. It by involving an Alaskan oil tanker. So this is an oil tanker. Like, I probably said this many years ago, but if you're on a dating website or app and somebody says they work on an oil rig, they already got a family.

[B]

Boo.

[A]

Boo. They already got a family. Okay. I feel like oil rigging is one of the biggest cheater professions. If you love to cheat on your family, definitely work in oil. It's dangerous, but it pays well and you'll have plenty of time to do infidelities to your loved ones.

[B]

I. This is news to me. I. I didn't know, like, see, again, I'm learning something. This is. I didn't know this was one of the Biggest scam professions.

[A]

I understand, like, the job itself isn't a scam, but it's just like, if you want a second family. Right? You know what I mean? Like, you definitely make sure you got to go to Alaska. And your family is, like, in Oklahoma, your family is in. Like, you got a lot of free time.

[B]

You got a lot of free time to get on the Internet and to seem available, but then also be unavailable to your family. So you can, you know, in a way, it's like. Like prison.

[A]

Except for you.

[B]

You can pay, and you have a job that you do outside of that, that you get paid for. So it's actually not at all like prison, which is what I said at the beginning of the.

[A]

I remember you said that. So this. Now Christine has brought in this Alaskan oil tanker. So I want to see how she's bringing it in to be nefarious, because there's so many different ways. So Jason Morris, which, remember, is one of Christine's aliases when she's scamming these women, told one elderly girlfriend to send him $120,000 to pay for an oil vessel carrying 700,000 barrels to Alaska. He said he owed this $120,000 so the boat could return to shore. Once the rig returned, he could move in with her. So, Christine, you jumped a lot of. That's a whole sentence right there. I'mma go back. Christine, AKA Jason, said, hey, baby, I need you to send me 120k to pay for this oil vessel. Cause it's got $700,000 of oil on it, babe. Love your smile, Wink. Good morning, queen. So we gotta get this in Alaska, and I own all the oil. So once the boat gets to shore, then I can move in with you. But first I gotta get this 700,000 barrels of oil.

[B]

Love is crazy. All I can say is love is crazy and the best. Jason Morris is a very convincing name.

[A]

Can you get 700,000 of anything on one thing?

[B]

But also, how big are these barrels? Why is Jason.

[A]

I think it's 700,000 grains of rice, but I feel like 700,000 barrels of something is like, a lot of something.

[B]

Is it $700,000 of oil?

[A]

Barrels.

[B]

Barrels.

[A]

I don't think you can fly 700,000 A V anything.

[B]

I also just don't know why.

[A]

I mean.

[B]

I mean, I mean, why is it his responsibility to get this $120,000 worth of oil like. Like that? Why does he need the 120? He works for the oil people. Like, he is not. He is not in Charge of the oil.

[A]

He's a one man oil band.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

So he's doing independent oil. You know how you can go get veneers from a veneer tech who has no kind of dental training? It's like he just started up a career. It's something that typically people have to be connected in and also have like some sort of education. But he was like, no, I'm just.

[B]

The, your example of the veneer tech. I was like, no, I didn't know that.

[A]

Oh, you gotta go to Atlanta more. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can get teeth from anybody in a pop up store. You know what I mean?

[B]

This is like the, this is like going to Turkey to get the hair plugs.

[A]

Yeah, except I heard that the turkey hair plugs be popping.

[B]

I don't know. I know that if you're supposed to go on a plane to Turkey, I know that when you come back it's supposed to. You're supposed to see a lot of men who are bleeding in the head.

[A]

Yes, I heard that too. That they be having the bleeding head.

[B]

That like the plane is full of bleeding head men because they all went to get the plugs from Turkey.

[A]

Turkish Airlines should really lean in. They're like, we have cool and scalp ice packs. Instead of a towel. When you go to first class, they give you just like a, like a head shaped ice pack and like put on your head. Yeah, it's like when the girls come back from Miami and they have to lay on the seats cause they got the BBL. The BBLs.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So this is. Yeah, look at these Turkish hair plates. We'll have to include these in the episode. So look, he went from not having. Okay, props to this guy because he was running the scam by growing the front of his hair out and giving us a nice little combo.

[B]

And what is that?

[A]

What is the band on his head in the left where you have. I don't know what they call this type of balding, but it's where like the sides of your hairline start to run away. First male pattern, like. No, but it's like the type of balding. Cause like some people bald from the middle and that's where they start to bald. And they had kind of have like a little cap. And then some people start to bald from the front, like the sides of the hairline where the hairline starts running towards the nape of the neck. But then the front like the widow's peel, just stay there. That's what this man has.

[B]

I am actually balding just evenly across My entire head.

[A]

I call this the Monty Burns. I'm gonna make a name for it. If they don't have one, it's like the Monty Burns where you got hair on the sides and maybe a little bit.

[B]

Yeah, I know what you're talking about. It's like the thing in the middle, and then it goes to the different.

[A]

Yeah, okay, we got men's hairline types. Okay. Yeah. So this man had a low hairline with a. And so the peak stayed, peaking, and then everything else started creeping.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

So then he was doing like a peak comb over, and then now he's got this Turkish. Can we go back to his. After he got a full head of hair, he looked like he, you know, ride motorcycles.

[B]

He looks like a different man, even. But I think this is also a lesson in confidence. The second picture is also a lesson in confidence. He's posing. He feels good. Don't forget that confidence will take you along.

[A]

That's why we say gender affirming care. Y' all be judging it, but everybody does it, so. But yeah, he looks at you. See, he got them graphs now he got 3,700 graphs. That's a lot of graphs. But yeah, so they be coming home with a fresh raw head.

[B]

That man looked better in his before. Oh, wait, did he get it for his beard? He got it for his beard. What's happening?

[A]

Wow. So if your beard is also balding. For all my bald, beardy baddies out there, you can get some beard done. Okay.

[B]

I love it. Vain man. Like, I gotta say. Me too.

[A]

I actually want them to be more vain. Okay. I want you to have a skincare routine. Get out there and then look, if you. If you're scared of skincare, they make the skincare brands that are super, like, agro, macho like stuff.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So we took a hard picture.

[B]

We took a hard.

[A]

But it was necessary. So Jason was like, I gotta get these 700,000 barrels, babes. So the girlfriend did this, but the bank stopped the transfer. So Jason told his girlfriend to contact the bank and lied to them, saying the funds were for purchasing property and not for the alleged oil tanker. But big surprise, there was no oil tanker. So he was like, oh, babe, they stopping it because, you know, the government. The government don't want me to get this oil because them. Oh, who is them? You know, they. The opposition. Yeah, but who are these people in particular? You know, somebody's. Anyway, just say it's for something else. So she said it was for something else. Obviously there was no oil ever coming. And they were never gonna move in together. Cause this is a woman doing this. This is Christine.

[B]

Do you think that if you're lonely enough. Cause, like, one of the things that I don't get about the scam relationships is all you're getting is the. The text messages or the emails. You're not getting any of the physical contact. It's just maybe the future promise of physical contact. So could we replace the emotional, like, kind of satisfaction of these scammers with ChatGPT?

[A]

I don't want anyone talking to ChatGPT. It's learning too much already. And then there's. There's two schools of thought, because some people are like, oh, if we don't talk to it, it's gonna develop anyway, and then our opinions aren't gonna be in it and stuff like that. And some people talk about representation in AI and they're like, if we don't do it, then they're not gonna have us in it. And right now, like, certain AI platforms, if you look up, like, black man, it's gonna show you, like, photos of mug shots and things like that. Yeah. So it's like, people are trying to. To keep it from teaching other people racism. But then it's also like, we don't want to feed it. I don't know where. I just don't get my information from it because, y'. All. It's called books. It's called learning. It's called, you can't learn everything off TikTok. Like, and you can't stop using Grok. Like. I don't know. It's weird. But, yeah, it's a complicated issue that we can't really get into today.

[B]

But I made a hairy suggestion. I was like, instead of scammers, what about artificial computers and YouTube said, Kieran, shut up.

[A]

What if we all put our blood in the AI? Yeah, exactly. What about that? I said, what if you give away.

[B]

Your DNA and then they clone a child, but they use it a robot?

[A]

Yeah. What about.

[B]

You feel like a person? What do you think about that?

[A]

What about just no sentience? How about that? That's how we avoid getting scammed. We just stop being sentience. Okay. We could have did it the whole time. I will say, though, like, maybe let's start teaching our elder loved ones to use FaceTime. Just, I know it's gonna annoy the fuck out of you. Cause then they gonna start FaceTiming you when you at your jobhouse and things like that. Talking about the weather and, you know, whatever, whatever. Whatever happened new today at the citizen home. But if we do that, then if you're talking to someone and there's love for you, just be like, let's get on FaceTime or let's get on Zoom or let's get on Skype. That's the easiest way to figure out if somebody is phishing you. Because if they never wanna be seen in any type of way, even if you're not in the same state, then obviously you know something is nefarious that's happening. That's a beautiful point. So if they can't. If you can't see em on Facet, then let's not do it.

[B]

The other truth is that Nana, if my mother has anything to go by, Nana is only gonna have like the underside of her chin on FaceTime at any given moment.

[A]

Oh yeah. The ankles are gonna be atrocious.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But at least we're not gonna get scammed.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

So obviously this is Christine stealing this money. So girlfriend, elderly girlfriend, did not get her man to move in with her, and her $120,000 went to this criminal lady. One woman reportedly sold her home so she could send $600,000 to Edward Word lots and word lots is another one of Christine's aliases. And this woman sold her home. Can you imagine selling your house to give money to a man?

[B]

I can't even imagine having a house.

[A]

You know, we do need to start. You say you took two steps in the imagination. We need to start at own. You said owning a home. And I was like, that's crazy.

[B]

I said. I said, oh, you. I own property in this scenario.

[A]

She said, let me wrap my brain around home ownership.

[B]

I'm so sor.

[A]

Sorry.

[B]

I like. I like when I'm living in fantasyland, I get on Zillow Queen. I say, getting one of those mortgage.

[A]

That I've heard so much about. Mortgage.

[B]

A mortar gauge sounds wild.

[A]

I heard people paying what I Paying rent on mortgage.

[B]

Yeah. Mortar gauges.

[A]

Yeah. And I heard the bank used to give mortgage to people.

[B]

I just. All of this just sounds like Candyland to me. So. You know, the idea that you would. I don't. I can't. I really, truly. And part of my question was like, is the scammer so. Or are the elderly people so lonely? And what is the bigger problem in America?

[A]

It's an ugly epidemic for sure. And I think we see that in all age groups, but especially when you're elderly. And then it kind of feels like you're a burden or people might Be paying for you to live in a specific place. This woman obviously still had a hume. A hume.

[B]

A humey. A humey.

[A]

I've also called them. Called whose?

[B]

Yes, yes, whoses.

[A]

So she sold her whose, okay. So that she could give $600,000 to this scammer, Edward Lots. Now, I'm not. I can't give money to a man who's physically present in front of me. I most certainly cannot give money to a man who is just talking to me on the phone. And we have had no interaction whatsoever. But I get the loneliness. And then once you built up a rapport with somebody, then. Because you can't just. You can't White Lotus this. If y' all ain't seen season three, then, you know, whatever. But, like, there's a hookup that happens with a man who's like, from Russia. And they still in the bed fresh post coital. And he's like, oh, yeah, my mom, she still lives in Russia, and I need to get her out of Russia. And she was like, oh, that's crazy. So sad. Stranger man that penis me. And then he's like, well, I mean, all we need is like a little money, like US$10,000. And she was like, oh, I don't have that. But he was like, oh, are you sure you can send it? PayPal, Apple, Venmo, check me. Zell, do you have cash up? Like, he just started listing every single way that you could send it. Like, that's too soon. I bet you that Christine. Because she's also. And it sounds pretty lonely. Cause this is like her job, you know, knew how to, like, romance these elderly women, give them attention, get them to trust her fake aliases and then. And you know what, too? If she has the voice of a woman. Unless she's using a voice modulator, which she did not give me, like, tech genius. When we saw her photo, it was given, like, her mouth be hanging open till the drool come out. Sure, that's her. See? And she's like, maybe like a minute away from some drool.

[B]

She's giving.

[A]

She's not giving. Like, she knows how to use a voice modulator. So these people must be messaging shoes.

[B]

And boilers, but untalented.

[A]

Yeah, I feel like this is like a pen pal situation.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Because if you get on the phone, I'm going to know that you're not a man.

[B]

No, there's no question about that.

[A]

Yeah. She doesn't give me, like, she would know how to use a. Like a voice modulator. She might, though, you know, we can't judge a scam book by its cover.

[B]

Now, I know we're not here to solve the epidemic of loneliness in America or the housing crisis.

[A]

We can try.

[B]

I am curious if you think that there is some value to. Let's say that that lonely woman who was, you know, talking to the oil tanker person. What if that person lived with a college student? A college student who couldn't afford a mortgage. Or let's say. Or let's say me. You know what I mean? I could be in her house that she owns that I'll never own. Do you know what I mean? And I could just live there like a roommate. You know what I mean?

[A]

Like pair of broke young people with old lonely people.

[B]

Yes, yes. So that everyone can annoy each other.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But no one will be lonely. They'll all just be slightly. Yes.

[A]

And irritation. Is that better than loneliness?

[B]

I think it is.

[A]

Yeah. It's giving your brain something to do.

[B]

It's like. I think loneliness is, like. The loneliness is supposed to be worse for you than alcoholism and, like, cigarette smoke. So irritation. Yeah. So irritate. So. So you're better off being a drunk than a. Than lonely. Which my friend said I'm not recommending.

[A]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

[B]

She said, kieran, that's terrible logic. And stop saying that to people, especially into microphones.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. I saw you at that when the aa. He was standing out there with a microphone.

[B]

I need a. I need a. I'm retiring my megaphone with that one. I'm so sorry. Cause I never said that.

[A]

Yeah, no, no, it never happened. I never saw you. But I will say that to your point, like, the loneliness of this is probably the bigger issue that would lead you to even thinking, like, I'm sure that Christine sold these women a dream was like, you know, sell your home. Let's go to Barbados. Or let's, you know, live together.

[B]

Future tripping.

[A]

Yeah. Future tripping. Yeah. And so that would be exciting to anybody who's been lonely, especially if you're. Because I can't imagine, like, if I'm in my prime right now and looking around, the options are few and far between as far as romantic partnership goes. And you're like, older and hell, the men who are your age at that age probably still trying to look at somebody half their age if they're virile.

[B]

Yeah. Which they are. From Gender Affirming Care.

[A]

Yes. Right. They got a new hairline and now they out here looking for the young bitches. Yeah, yeah. So I can understand how she got into the spot. Obviously, no judgment, but no judgment she got. So Christine got that $600,000. And here's my thing, Christine, you're not giving like you're living lavish. You're living in Oklahoma. I know even though prices are inflating everywhere, if you got $720,000, you couldn't just live good off that. You couldn't maybe get you a little franchise or something and just like stop stealing from old people. Like you had to continue. This is also giving me that Christine has some kind of sickness beyond just wanting money. Some scammers are really in it for the high, the attention, and also this kind of machiavelic feeling that they have where other people's lives. Because there is a high of being like, I got a stranger to sell their home and send me all the proceeds from it. There's power, there's power trip. And Christine don't look like she done ever had power in a day in her life. I feel like every time. She probably worked at a real regular job. Her manager was probably like 20 years younger than her. She was like, I gotta wait for my manager to get outta high school so I could put in my requests off. You know what I mean? Like, it feels like she didn't have much power in her life.

[B]

She needed a hug. She needed a hug and she needed somebody to say, hey.

[A]

She was like my manager at the Sunglasses hug getting her braces off. But as soon as she leave the Orthodox done this, I'm gonna request that I could have Christmas off.

[B]

It's also like if that, if that, like if that person who has this like Machiavellian need for power then rerouted the money to Doctors Without Borders. Now what do you think of them?

[A]

I still don't like it.

[B]

That's right. That's right. Because it should have. It should have technically been that old bitches, you know, prerogative to give that money to Doctors Without Borders and sell her house for that reason.

[A]

So another elderly girlfriend. I love the term elderly girlfriend. Cause why can't they just be girlfriends? I just said older old bitch and that sounded better to me than elderly girlfriend. I said these old bitch when I'm old. Don't call me elderly girlfriend.

[B]

Let me just tell you something. I'm happy with being called an old bitch today. I think it actually sounds like, you.

[A]

Know, old bitch sound like I'm still having fun out here. Okay? Elderly girlfriend is giving a commercial for like vaginal dryness. And I don't like that.

[B]

Let's take this old pony for one more.

[A]

Vaginal dryness happens at all ages. I'm just saying it sounds like commercial. Like, are you and your elderly girlfriend.

[B]

Having, like, we here at Scam Goddess support vaginal dryness and vaginal. Vaginals.

[A]

We don't support. We want y' all to get it not dry.

[B]

We support. We support vaginas with whatever means, any level of liquid inside of you.

[A]

Whatever you. Whatever's comfortable for you, we support it. We actually will be on a megaphone out front, really raising awarenesses about this. So another elderly girlfriend sent 250. $50,000 for expenses on a financial portfolio that Glenn Godard promised to send her from Syria. She trusted Glenn because he said they went to college together. They did not. There's a lot of people at college. You could probably say you went to college with a lot of people. They wouldn't know.

[B]

I was just thinking, I got a message from somebody who said, we went to college together. And I was like, did we go to college together?

[A]

I don't know. Of course they hit you. Now you popping in. They seen these specials. They know you're going to Sundance. Like, remember we went to college together. Kieran, remember our mascot? It was our favor. Mascot. Go finish it. Kieran.

[B]

Go. Go.

[A]

The mascot of the college that we went to.

[B]

Go. Penis.

[A]

That wasn't it, girl.

[B]

No, it wasn't it. I. I lost it. I lost it. What was it? Go. Go. We didn't have a mascot.

[A]

No, I always said the go part thing. You said the mascot and the city and location of the college that we went to.

[B]

Oh, that's okay. That's okay. But that would be a tell. Because we didn't have a mascot. That was kind of. My college didn't have a mascot.

[A]

Damn. I wouldn't be able to scam you.

[B]

It was literally like a. When you said go, and I was like, no, we didn't.

[A]

No, cuz rem. That we didn't have a mascot. That's what I actually said.

[B]

You're so convincing.

[A]

Yeah. So we would just be like, go, name of our school.

[B]

Oh, my God.

[A]

You're like, see, I would say, go to the name.

[B]

You're like, fake news. You're like, fake news. But all this eye contact, and I was like, yeah, go.

[A]

What?

[B]

I thought it was a joke.

[A]

Yeah, go.

[B]

The name.

[A]

No, but what was the name of it?

[B]

The name of the thing, the school.

[A]

That you went to.

[B]

Oh, I went to Harvard. Go.

[A]

Harvard. That's what we always said. I already said that.

[B]

Nobody said, go Harvard. Everyone said, don't tell people about that, girl.

[A]

I would say that all the time. And then every job that I had, I would say, I went to Harvard.

[B]

The one thing I. This is the first time.

[A]

Karen, did you really go to Harvard?

[B]

It's the thing I'm really proud of, Karen. But, Lacy, the thing I'm really proud of with Harvard, it's the first time I would ever really mention it on a pod is like, they stood up to president. I'm very proud of the institution. I'm like, okay, two middle fingers to the side.

[A]

I'm saying, y' all don't want DEI now. Y' all talking about y' all want diverse viewpoints. Are y' all saying, let stupid people in?

[B]

I mean, you have to understand that school is older than the federal government, so they're, like, quite conservative in their take. Like, exactly.

[A]

They're like, we already racist enough, what you're saying? Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[B]

For them to do that to the president means that the request list must have been wild.

[A]

I just want to go back here for one second.

[B]

We don't need to talk about what.

[A]

Because the reason that I was saying Harvard and how I had to juice it out of you with my bit there is because typically, it's not that funny. If somebody went to Harvard, I will know that within the first conversation. I have known Karen for years, and I had no idea that she went to Harvard. So I'm just shocked that it has never casually dropped in the conversation. Cause, you know, the girlies who go to Harvard, they be like, yeah, you know, that remind me. I'm like, oh, I stubbed my toe. They'd be like, oh, that remind me. That time I went to Harvard and I stubbed my toe.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

When I was actually becoming president of the Law Review, I stubbed my toe right before my speech.

[B]

You know, it's a funny thing at Harvard Law, and. And women. Women have been like that to you? Women.

[A]

I mean, not. You know what? I will say it's mostly men. I know all the men who went to Harvard. I may not know as many women.

[B]

And what color were those men?

[A]

Oh, you know what they was.

[B]

Okay, well, so I'm just saying that's a massive.

[A]

There are diverse people that y' all talk about. We're gonna have to mark this whole.

[B]

Sequence, but that's a massive differential. Like, it's. I would. My guess would be like, I don't know.

[A]

Cause I'm a woman. If I went to Harvard, you would know I went to Harvard. Everybody on this podcast knows I went to college on scholarship. I say it all the time. I'll be like, remember when I was at Harvard? Oh, boy. Those were the Harvard days. Anyway, it would have nothing to do with nothing.

[B]

You actually give me a bunch of phrases. You text me a bunch of phrases, I'm gonna start saying, yeah, I'll get.

[A]

You where we can shoehorn it in. So naturally. Yes.

[B]

So I'm gonna put that in my.

[A]

Invoices back to Christine and her alias, Glenn Godard. I will say that Christine obviously has a bit of a finesse here, because, remember, we had the oil rigger, and his name was Jason Morris. Jason Morris sounds like he would be rigging oil. Glenn Godard does sound like he's got financial portfolios from the Godard family. She should have put a third on there. Glenn Godard, actually, he. Oh, these old people, right? So Glenn Godard, the second.

[B]

Yeah. It's better than a junior. I was just contemplating junior in my life.

[A]

No, it's gotta be the second. Cause Junior is like. That means you don't have enough money to be. Have the little Roman numerals. You gotta have roman numeral money.

[B]

You gotta have plaque money. You gotta have family crest money.

[A]

Yes. You gotta have artifacts that are definitely stolen from the races you oppressed to gain your wealth.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And they have to be kept somewhere.

[B]

And then you say things like, finders keepers on the Internet. Mm.

[A]

Yes. Yes. Through the victor goes the spoils. That's a classy way to say it.

[B]

That is a better way to yes.

[A]

So Christine laundered this money that she got from her victims through various accounts, converting them to cryptocurrency, and then. Never mind. Christine, I take it back, girl. Clearly. Clearly, you not as dumb as you look. So I. You know, and that's what I said initially, is that Christine gave me that she was gonna be very good at tech because she is laundering through cryptocurrency and then sending crypto payments to an unidentified suspect. Now, now, Christine, why is anybody else involved in this scam? Why are you sending money to anybody? Because I don't think you need to involve anybody in this. I better not find out that this cut is going to a man, because.

[B]

Crypto is a very volatile currency. So I don't know. I'm on the fence about the.

[A]

Well, she's got to launder the money, though, because otherwise, she cannot explain how she got $1.5 million just sent to accounts.

[B]

Well, what isn't. Why isn't she on the black Market, babe. Like, why isn't she on the dark web?

[A]

I don't know how to get to the dark web personally.

[B]

Okay, we'll talk about that offline.

[A]

So Christine was arrested and charged with unlawful use of criminal proceeds and using a computer to violate state statutes. She faces 24 to 64 years in prison and has to pay up to $260,000 in fines. That's not that much.

[B]

Does she have to give the money back?

[A]

That's why I don't like fines. Because when you say fines, the government just gets money because you committed a crime. The money should go evenly, be distributed. Distributed to the victims, because otherwise, why do we get the government involved? Girl, like, what is you doing?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

We pay you to help us.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And the government's like, well, we gonna take our fines. Fines for what, bitch? You didn't do nothing.

[B]

Yep. Even if you're taking a fine off of the person. I think the. What about restitution? I would. I'm interested in restitution.

[A]

It's not restitution.

[B]

That's correct.

[A]

The word fines does not mean restitution.

[B]

That's correct.

[A]

And, you know, they always love to slap the girlies with some restitution who they know cannot afford it. So then it's like, it's not. They're just like, somebody to make you feel better after it's over. But I'm like, fines. This money should just go directly to those elderly victims. Like, people have lost their homes in these scenarios. People have given up a horrible amount of money that obviously should have gone to them, their family, wherever they wanted to use that money. So fines. To me, I'm like, the government caught a little lick in here, too. Not the government scamming as well. They said, we can't believe you did this to the elderly women. Pay us $260,000 in fines.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah, they should. It should at least be that that money goes back. But really, she should be owing that 15 back to and figuring that out and hoping that that cryptocurrency went up.

[A]

Yeah. I don't see laundering is the only reason that I would understand why she would get crypto involved anyway. Because obviously, it's volatile and in many cases, a scam. I don't know why y' all get. Why any celebrity who tells y' all to get they coin, they meme. Why are y' all doing that? It's a scam. They're using their popularity so you can go foolishly buy whatever volatile coin they have, and then as soon as that starts to raise in value. They rug pull you, which means that they're gonna take all their shares out and then they're gon get the money and then whatever bullshit that you bought is going to be worthless.

[B]

I had a boyfriend this happened to with an nft. It was really sad.

[A]

I remember when the Hakatua girl came out and was like, I got a Hakatuh meme and everyone was buying it. I'm like, this girl literally said one thing that was very basic that has been said before on somebody's street Internet. I want y' all to stop doing them street Internet interviews for TikTok. Please leave people alone. Did y' all see that Planned Parenthood lady who got punched? That's why y' all need to, to stop, okay? She was like talking to some random person in Harlem about Planned Parenthood, but trying to bait her into looking dumb because she was pro life. And then at the end, she got her shit rocked. She got punched. Okay, yeah, the, the, the evil lady who was doing the interviews on the street and it's like, why are you doing this? Leave people alone.

[B]

People.

[A]

People are not content.

[B]

People are not content. As a bumper sticker that I actually don't think the big tech agrees with, which is why I do agree with the man from Lithuania that he wasn't totally wrong.

[A]

Cuz these people, every time you go outside now, I feel like there's some black mirror version of a lot of the younger generations, and even the millennials too, where they're looking at people like, content. They're like, oh, that person is 12 likes. Or like, you know what I mean? Like, it's like, these are strangers on the street. Leave them alone. Leave them alone. I was like, no, I saw this man. He was at least 6,000 views. So I'm going go run up to him and bother him. What, what are you doing?

[B]

I would, I, I, I, I think people, yeah, if you, if, if they won't let you hug them, don't ask them to make a video.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Like, it needs to be. There needs to be at least some.

[A]

If you can't, you need to know the person. You need to know. They went to Harvard and then maybe think about doing a video. Yeah, yeah, but Christine, I don't love your scam at all. I really feel sad for these elderly girlfriends.

[B]

Christine feels like a person who would wear ugly Diesel jeans. To me.

[A]

I don't think she's cool enough for those Diesel jeans.

[B]

Okay, okay, okay.

[A]

I don't see Christine under the bridge. Actually.

[B]

That's true. But maybe if Christine was under the bridge, she would have left these elderly people alone.

[A]

Yeah. She needed hobbies. And, Christine, this was not it. So all the 24 to 64 years. That's a lot of years in prison. Christine, it doesn't look like you're gonna see the light of day again.

[B]

And I'm okay with that.

[A]

I'm okay with that. Cause you don't need to be on the streets. You definitely don't need to be on the phones or the computers. Cause clearly. Clearly, you don't know how to act. Christine, pick up a book in the.

[B]

And let's see what you decide to author from there.

[A]

It might be a book in here somewhere, Christine. I don't know. But I just. I don't like to see, like, romance fraud. It's my least favorite type of fraud.

[B]

Yeah. It's preying on one of the most basic human emotions. And, you know, everyone's looking for love in one way or another. Exactly. And that's why we're on this podcast.

[A]

Yeah. And if you want to be a cheater again, oil rigging. Okay. Or get one of them jobs where you got to go out of town a lot, like, be a consultant. They're always on planes. You know what I mean? Like, find a job where you have to travel to different sites and locations, and then you can have a separate family. You know what I mean? In Tucson.

[B]

It would be great. It's like, you know, within the next, like, five to seven years, it's like some. You. You have a scammer who's on here citing your podcast as a source of information.

[A]

I never want that to happen. I will never be implicated because I never said anything that was implicating.

[B]

That's true.

[A]

Yes. But, Karen, thank you so much for being on the show today.

[B]

Thank you for having me. What a gem like this was. I mean, always. And I learned. And I learned. I learned. We laughed. We.

[A]

We saw a lot of beautiful things and a lot of ugly people.

[B]

We saw, I mean, Turkish hairlines, you know?

[A]

Yeah. Y' all just make sure they don't give you a straight line because some of these are looking a little too. Like they took a ruler to y' all head, like, you know, get it, get it. Plucked a little bit.

[B]

Okay. Make it look human.

[A]

Give yourself some edges. My guys. Anyways, y', all, thank you, Kim, for being on the show.

[B]

Thank you for having me.

[A]

We always ask, where would you like to be? Anything you want people to see where they can find you online.

[B]

You know, I'M really proud of this. This is the first special. This is the first special that I've ever released. It's called and it's Joy Sucks. So it's like, how do you find, you know, things are. I mean, this is why I love this pod, too. It's like, you take stuff that's, like, kind of dark and you make it funny, but you also educate the people. And I feel like that's. The special is kind of like taking stuff that's, like, a little bit dark and making it funny and trying to find a way to, like, keep your joy up. Because that's a form of rebellion and that's important in these times so that you can. Yes. So that you can, like, you can stay on your path. And it's Amazon prime, and if people watch it, just send me a message. I'm always curious to hear how and if people liked it. It's been really fun to hear from people, like, with a story over time versus just clips on the Internet, you know, like, a story over time is, like, very fun in comedy to me. And that's, like, the most exciting part.

[A]

So, yes, obviously, that's what we do. A story over an hour. Yeah, I love that. And congratulations on releasing it.

[B]

Beginning, middle and end. You always.

[A]

And then social media.

[B]

Yeah, social media. Shit from Shit from Kieran. From Kieran. Not with Kieran. We're not on the toilet together. That's crazy.

[A]

Yes, that is. But shit from Kieran. Very normal. You can find that.

[B]

Very normal. And definitely not made before. I thought about cursing in an Instagram title.

[A]

Yeah, no, I think it works. No, you're not gonna find another Shit from Kieran.

[B]

No, you won't. But you will have a lot of people asking you, shit with Kieran. Shit at Kieran. Shit on Kieran.

[A]

No, definitely not Shit on Kieran or with her or around her. Yeah, that's weird.

[B]

Shit around.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Shit around Karen.

[B]

The preposition has complicated my.

[A]

She's giving the shit. It's from Kieran. Shit from Karen. Yes, yes. And if you want to see all of these amazing photos, you can go on Scam Goddess Pod. That's where everything is on Instagram. And then if you want to talk to me, I am, like, randomly getting on Twitter more and more. Scam Goddess Pod on Twitter. And then if you want to see me and my shenanigans or whatever I'm up to, that's C I V A L A C I Diva Lacey. On all platforms, you can stream all the episodes of Scam Goddess a television show. The visuals are out, y', all on Hulu. You can also stream Going Dutch on Hulu. And you can buy my book or my audiobook anywhere. Books are told. Just Google Scam Goddess book. Yes. And congregation. I want y' all to get out there and I want y' all to stay invoicing, okay? All of our time is valuable. You stay invoicing. Goddess. Scam Goddess stars and is hosted by me, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. Our producer is Jessica Cisneros and our audio engineer is Rich Garcia. Research for the show is conducted by Kate Doyle. Stay scheduled.