The Night the Art Ghosted Boston’s Gardner Museum w/ Jake Halpern and Jess McHugh

Summary

Podcast Summary: Scam Goddess
Episode: The Night the Art Ghosted Boston’s Gardner Museum w/ Jake Halpern and Jess McHugh
Release Date: July 8, 2025

---

Introduction: Welcoming Experts on Scams

In this episode of Scam Goddess, host Laci Mosley welcomes two distinguished guests, Jake Halpern and Jess McHugh, co-hosts of the podcast Deep Cover. Both guests bring a wealth of experience in journalism and research on fraud, having contributed to notable publications such as the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and The Washington Post.

The Ubiquitous Nature of Scams in Modern Society

Societal Pressures and Women in "Scam Land"

Jess McHugh opens the discussion by presenting her theory that contemporary society compels all women into a realm she terms "scam land," whether as victims, con artists, or debunkers. She states, “I think in our world, there is no way not to scam and be scammed” [02:39], highlighting how societal expectations force women into various deceptive roles.

Skincare and "Trad Wives" as Modern Scams

The conversation shifts to specific examples, such as the skincare industry and the "trad wives" phenomenon. Jess points out, “everything from kind of soul cycle nonsense and retinol serums up to Ponzi schemes and like, you know, trad wifery” [03:25], illustrating how these trends can be seen as modern scams exploiting societal norms and insecurities. Laci humorously adds her skepticism about skincare products, saying, “I have an LED red light mask... but am I gonna put it on at night and look like a murderer? Absolutely” [03:53].

Trust, Generosity, and the Fallout of Being Scammed

Jake Halpern delves into the psychology of trust, explaining how scams prey on human goodwill. He shares insights from the Gardner Museum case, noting, “people were motivated by a desire to help someone who seemed to be in terrible pain” [08:22]. This highlights the vulnerability and complexity of maintaining trust in interpersonal relationships after being deceived.

Laci echoes these sentiments, emphasizing the importance of community and questioning, “what do we do when we're confronted with something where we believe that someone needs our help?” [10:03], pondering the balance between generosity and healthy skepticism.

The Intersection of Conspiracy Theories and Scams

The discussion broadens to address how conspiracy theories intertwine with scams. Jess references a case where a genuine cancer patient was wrongly suspected of faking her illness, underscoring the blurred lines between legitimate concerns and unfounded conspiracies. Laci reflects on the challenges of discerning truth in an era of information overload, stating, “the Internet has made so many people feel like with no research... they can have an opinion about something that they are completely ignorant about” [12:37].

Historic Heist: The Gardner Museum Theft

Planning and Execution

The core of the episode centers on the infamous 1990 heist at Boston’s Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum, described as the largest property crime in U.S. history. Occurring on St. Patrick's Day, Laci humorously remarks, “St. Patrick’s Day has always felt like the Purge” [27:44], highlighting the robbers' strategic choice of a day characterized by public distraction.

Jake adds context, explaining how the lack of a specialized fine art division hindered the investigation, and how the thieves exploited the chaos of the day. He notes, “they triggered a proximity detector alarm... didn’t seem to be phased by that or speed up their process either” [33:15], suggesting possible inside assistance.

The Art Stolen and Left Behind

The heist resulted in the theft of 13 valuable works, including three Rembrandts and Vermeer’s The Concert. However, the thieves also took seemingly insignificant items like a bronze Chinese beaker and small sketches by Edgar Degas, leading to speculation about their motives and knowledge of art. Laci humorously critiques the selection, “they cut the pictures out with knives. Yeah. And that just feels a little barbaric” [35:58].

Theories on Perpetrators

Multiple theories emerge regarding the perpetrators, from Mafia involvement to inside jobs. Jake shares his experience corresponding with a known art thief, revealing the complexities of laundering such high-value items. “they do end up in mob hands... as an expensive bargaining chip” [36:55], he explains, illustrating the underground economics of stolen art.

Museum's Aftermath and Public Impact

The museum continues to honor Isabella Stewart Gardner’s original vision by maintaining the empty frames, enhancing the poignancy of the loss. Laci reflects, “nothing in her collection should be removed... the empty frames on the walls are at the museum, too” [57:33], emphasizing the lasting impact of the theft on the art community and the public’s perception of the museum.

Reflections on Scamming and Societal Masks

Towards the episode's conclusion, the trio discusses the pervasive nature of scamming ingrained in societal interactions. Laci muses, “how far do you go when you feel jaded by someone who's taken advantage of your kindness?” [10:34], contemplating the delicate balance between trust and skepticism in maintaining genuine relationships.

Jess adds a psychological perspective, “journalism is a form of storytelling. But con artistry is also a form of storytelling” [21:17], drawing parallels between the narratives constructed by journalists and con artists to influence and manipulate perceptions.

Closing Thoughts

The episode wraps up with lighthearted banter and reflections on the enduring mystery of the Gardner Museum heist. The guests offer insights into the complexities of scams, trust, and human behavior, leaving listeners with a deeper understanding of the intricate dance between deceit and authenticity in modern society.

---

This episode masterfully intertwines humor with deep analysis, providing listeners with both entertainment and profound insights into the world of scams and true crime. Through engaging dialogue and expert perspectives, Scam Goddess invites its audience to navigate the thin line between trust and deception in an ever-complex world.

Transcript

[Lacey Mosley]

Scams C. Robbery and fraud. Scams. CA Robbery and fraud. Scam Goddess. What's poppin, Congregation? It's your girl, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess, back with another installment of the podcast, all about robbery, fraud and those who practice it. Today we have not one, but two real deal on the show. Okay, y' all know I love. Yeah, I pretend to be a journalist, but these people really have degrees. Okay. One is written for the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the New Yorker, Smithsonian, gq, and more. Hello. Credits. He is a bestselling author and winner of the 2018 Pulitzer surprise for editorial cartooning. That. Okay, not a Pulitzer winner. Oh, this is fancy. Let me sit up straighter. Now that I'm sitting up straighter, I will continue. The other writer and researcher whose work has appeared in various national and international publications including the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the Washington Post, Time and more. Woo. We just dropping all the big names on the floor. Can y' all hear em? Just clank, clank, clank. She wrote the book Americanon, which asks, what is the glue that holds us all together? Together. They co host a podcast, Deep Cover, a show about people who lead double lives, revealing their webs of decession. And Doug, why can't I read today, y'?

[Jake Halpern]

All?

[Lacey Mosley]

I swear to God, I can read. I'm not a part of that generation that can't read good. This happens to me all the time. I get was a school for ants, but I didn't learn how. Okay, so their podcast, Deep Cover is about people who lead double lives, revealing their webs of deception. Is beating my ass and dark underworlds through interviews with federal agents and convicted criminals. Okay, convicts. Okay. There's confidences in that word. Convict. Congregation, I am elated to welcome our first timers, Jake halpern and Jess McHugh, to the show. Hi.

[Jess McHugh]

Hi. Hey, thanks for having us. That makes us sound so legit.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, my God. You guys are too legit. Too legit for my mouth to quit. And also supercatifragilistic expelladocians. No, this is amazing. Thank you both for being here and legitimizing my show even more. You are now tied to it.

[Jess McHugh]

Yes.

[Lacey Mosley]

Whatever. I do. You do. No, I'm putting blitz. But we do always ask on this podcast, what is your relationship with scams? Do you love them? Do you hate them? Have you ever seen some ransom? It could literally be anything. Has one happened to you? And either of you can go, oh.

[Jake Halpern]

Jess, Jess, you're definitely going first on this one.

[Jess McHugh]

So Jake knows. I came across this Sarah Kavanaugh, who's the subject of our podcast, because I've been working on this research for this book for many years. And I'm finally finishing the book proposal. So if there's any editors out there, please buy it. But basically, my kind of theory is that contemporary society has made it such that all women are forced into scam land, rather whether as victims or con artists or kind of debunkers like myself. And so basically, I think in our world, there is no way not to scam and be scammed. Like everything from kind of soul cycle nonsense and retinol serums up to Ponzi schemes and like, you know, trad wifery.

[Lacey Mosley]

There's so many creams, a scam that.

[Jess McHugh]

You would fall for even if you.

[Lacey Mosley]

Think you would not. Right. I lather myself in creams. I put some on today and I just keep me beautiful because I can't get old and nasty. Cause then the people won't love me. This is what I'm saying.

[Jake Halpern]

Your skin looks amazing, actually. And it's funny cause Jess is obsessed with skincare and she's. Whenever we meet someone, she's given the quick rundown of how she thinks their skincare is.

[Lacey Mosley]

No, listen, I have an LED red light mask. I don't know if it's doing a damn thing, but am I gonna put it on at night and look like a murderer? Absolutely. But you're. And I would. I would go a step further and say that I love the specificity of women and. But I think too, like, it's just anybody of all genders now has been kind of forced into scams. And I love that you bring up trad wives because that goes hand in hand with that retinol. Because it's like, yeah, you didn't get any skills when you were young and fuckable, but then. And now you have all these kids and then your man upgrades the wife and now you're nasty and you're old.

[Jess McHugh]

More ways to spend and lose money.

[Lacey Mosley]

You got kids and it's like you're none of those things. Absolutely not. I'm not saying that trad wives are those things, but that's kind of the system, that scam system. So this is really fascinating.

[Jess McHugh]

Also, if you haven't had a trad wife episode yet, I think there needs to be a trad wife episode because that is a scam.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes, it truly is for everybody involved. I don't think being a stay at home mom is not labor. And I certainly have seen it Work I had. I know some people with very successful marriages who are still together and their husband wasn't like, oh, you turned 42, it's time for you.

[Jess McHugh]

Goodbye.

[Lacey Mosley]

You know, like, it can happen. And I hope that it does happen for these young girls. But, you know, when something becomes a culture, that's when the scam has entered the chat.

[Jess McHugh]

Yeah. When I say try to wife, I mean more specifically, like, selling your organic pork through your Instagram storefront. And also maybe some Mormon Christianity. I don't mean to malign stay at home moms. That's not who I'm talking about.

[Lacey Mosley]

Listen, I have watched what's her name? Nora Smith. I watched her make a grape once in the oven, and she looked like a supermodel. And I was like, this seems amazing. And she is really selling me something. I'm not buying it, because I know, but I. But she is selling it.

[Jess McHugh]

It's tempting. And her voice is incredible. What can I say?

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, so soothing. She says things. I'm like, yes, I will give up my life. Yes.

[Jess McHugh]

Are you familiar with any of his J Copper? And I somehow feel like this is not entering your Instagram algorithm.

[Jake Halpern]

Drawn in by everything laced. No.

[Lacey Mosley]

I should be only making my own bread. What am I doing?

[Jess McHugh]

Although I do know that Jake is the only one in the kitchen in his household, as should the.

[Lacey Mosley]

Listen, I love a man who could cook. Come on, Jake. That gives you some snaps and some claps. Don't we all need survival skills? I don't know why we think it's weird when little boys have kitchen sets. I'm like, do you think they're not gonna eat at some point in their life? Like, they do need to know how to do laundry and feed themselves and read. Bring back reading. Y' all can't read so much. It's starting to affect me. I feel like it's some kind of parasite. Cause I could read before this.

[Jess McHugh]

You should have heard me on our first takes of the first episodes. It was a. So don't even put it.

[Lacey Mosley]

Well, I'm six years in. I have no excuse.

[Jake Halpern]

No, but you're improv ing, which is impressive. We're reading off a script, and even.

[Lacey Mosley]

That, I can't handle it. Well, thank you. I am also reading off a script. No, remember that different. It's all improv. I'm going to read it all. It's coming from my mind. But I think this is so fascinating. So Sarah Kavanaugh is who this book is about. Right, Sorry.

[Jess McHugh]

So the podcast is about Sarah Kavanaugh? My book is more broadly about women, con artists in general.

[Lacey Mosley]

I love that. And women really did open up the true crime space. You saw such a deep fascination come from women in its originality and part that is because we've been scammed into thinking that we are responsible for our own safety. So when you think like, you gotta watch out for the man behind every corner and carry your mace and four sets of keys in between your fists and you gotta go take Krav Maga and you know, know how to stab somebody in the eye and break their nose at the supermarket parking lot. Yes. You are going to get into true crime. Yes. So I do love this angle. That's really great. And the book is called again, I just want the girls to know so they can purchase it, because they will.

[Jess McHugh]

The book is called TBD because I am still finishing the proposal.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay, we'll be waiting.

[Jess McHugh]

Something great, I'm sure.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay. I will be lathering myself with creams with my jade roller the second it hits the presses.

[Jess McHugh]

Thank you. I'm not going to pretend like I don't also have my jade roller, even though I am speaking out against the jade roller industrial complex.

[Lacey Mosley]

Easter medicine. Okay. Gua sha is okay. The Chinese know some things too.

[Jess McHugh]

We don't need.

[Lacey Mosley]

It doesn't all need to be a pill. Amen. So, Jake, I have to ask you the same question. What's your relationship with scams? It could literally be anything.

[Jake Halpern]

I don't know. I feel like the way that I think about it is we live in an era where people don't trust one another. And, like, what scams prey on is an appeal to our goodwill and will. We trust people even though we have all these reasons that are bombarded that we shouldn't. And what I found moving about this story in particular. So in our. In. In. In the podcast, Sarah perpetrates this double life for six years, which is like, by the way, that's just like, crazy that anything could hold up if I tell my wife a white lie. Like, I'm busted within two hours. Like, forget that. I'm busted within, like, five minutes. So the idea that, like, something could last that long in and of itself is kind of what pulled me in. But there's a. I think the other aspect of the story that. That touched me was, is that all the people that were drawn into this, they weren't dumb.

[Lacey Mosley]

No.

[Jake Halpern]

They were motivated by a desire to help someone who seemed to be in terrible pain and in a very rough situation. They thought she was going to have a leg. Amputated. They thought that she was dying of cancer. They thought she was in financial trouble, and they were close to her. These are people that really got to know her. And so it gets to this point where what do we do when we're confronted with something where we believe that someone needs our help? And do we distrust that, or do we tap into our generosity? And then after we get burned, then where does that leave us? Are we like, I'm never helping a cancer patient again, or are we gonna somehow try to work ourselves out of that and back to that place? So that whole thing just appealed to me.

[Lacey Mosley]

I like that. Because even generosity is a need for human connection. So it's like, if you love your friend, you don't to see your friends suffer. If there's a way that you could help. I absolutely do help my friends, and my friends help me, because that's a part of community. And it's like, yeah, you're right. How far do you go when you feel jaded by someone who's taken advantage of your kindness? It's like, we don't want to see you outside of St. Jude's like, you a part of Westboro Baptist Church. Like, fuck that kid. Fuck them kids. And they're canceled. No, we don't want you to go that far.

[Jake Halpern]

Right.

[Lacey Mosley]

Well, what's the happy medium for a healthy amount of distrust, especially if someone has infiltrated your life like that for six years. That's a hard one. I don't know if you can beat some scams. That's why I have some respect for some of the scam artists and the scammers. I don't respect the scam. I don't want bad things to happen to people, whether they be good or bad people. But it is interesting, like, how long.

[Jess McHugh]

Yeah, it's so true. I also think the opposite is true, where when there's too much distrust. There was that wild story that came out a few weeks ago where this kind of online commenter was convinced that this woman was pretending to have cancer, who actually did have cancer, and went on this whole rampage page to uncover her fake cancer. And, you know, the New York Times interviewed her doctors saying she actually does have cancer. And so it's kind of like, you know.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah.

[Jess McHugh]

To your point, where is the happy medium? I don't know that there is one. I think part of what's hard is living in a society that's so deregulated and is increasingly deregulated because the reality is, as individuals, there's only so much that we can do to vet each other. Even as professional journalists, I think Jake would agree that we're kind of trained to sniff out people who are alive and there are limits to that with us.

[Lacey Mosley]

Absolutely. And it's also, it's confusing because. Yes, you, like I always say, you guys told me your names and you're like, I'm just, I'm Jake. I wasn't like, are you sure? Let me see your driver's license. It's like, we can't live with that much, you know, speculation. But what the Internet has done is made so many people feel like with no research, with no fact gathering on their own, that they can have an opinion about something that they are completely ignorant about. Why does someone feel entitled? You wouldn't feel entitled face to face to see someone struggling with cancer and be like, let me see your scars and your doctor's appointments. Like, you wouldn't do that because that is insane. But online you feel like there's this wall where you're not actually responsible for the things you say and do to people.

[Jake Halpern]

It's funny though, like, the other thing is, is the way that people see conspiracy. It's like there's because like conspiracy, like we're just crazy about conspiracy theories. And in fact, like the third season of the podcast, we had the story of woman who was like trying to get out of a bad home situation and she ends up. She does this crazy thing where she needs to change her name, but she's young and she doesn't really know what she's doing. So she takes on the name of a girl who's passed away. And then the police start investigating that murder. And when they find out that this woman is supposed to be dead, is actually a student at Columbia University, this kind of all male detective squad assumes that she is a spy. Like that's the conclusion that they jumped to. Like the most kind of intense conspiracy theory you can have.

[Lacey Mosley]

And in fact, I'm not surprised they gave a woman that much credit. Usually they're like, you're too dumb to do crime because of your period and stuff. You can't do crime. So at least they gave her the credit of like, she's gotta be a super genius.

[Jake Halpern]

That's true. I didn't thought of it that way, but that's where their minds went.

[Lacey Mosley]

And then it's hard because some conspiracies are kind of true. There is an extreme amount of propaganda coming from news sources that used to be trusted implicitly. And I mean, from working in news and television, I know that One reason I still trust a reliable source is because there's something on the line.

[Jess McHugh]

Right.

[Lacey Mosley]

I'm not watching Mr. YouTube for my news because Mr. YouTube's rarely gonna get sued. But you know who will? ABC. So there is, like, some journalistic integrity left, but then also the way that news are covered sometimes, like, I'm seeing real videos of stuff that actually happened, and the news is like, they're not lying, but they're not showing everything.

[Jess McHugh]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

I think that's what really ramped up these conspiracy theorists. But they made it like, we've talked about, where's the line? They've made an insane shift to just trusting anything and everything made up on the Internet. And I don't think that's the course correction either.

[Jess McHugh]

Right. And I think similarly, both to conspiracy theories and to cons, frankly. It's like, yeah, things are bad, or the government is hiding things from you, but so much more banal. Like, I think of the example of RFK talking about how unhealthy America is, and it's the fault of people's diet or their lack of exercise or not wrestling bears or whatever. His explanation is, it's like, yeah, America has some health problems, but probably that has to do with how broken the healthcare system is. Like, it's maybe a little bit simpler than some sort of wild conspiracy.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right. In our food and food deserts. Like, there's logical things, but also, I don't understand why anybody would listen to rfk. Because he literally had worms for brains. Like, I'm not trying to disease shame, but he had a worm in his brain. He literally had a worm in his brain. And I think the worm did some stuff. Okay? That's my conspiracy. The worm was in there doing the worm. Okay. I can't imagine what that does to one person. Okay. I just don't know if he should be, like, really the crusader for America's health. Cause how long did you have that worm in there before you knew something was wrong? Too long. Rfk, you got good health care. But honestly, I'm sorry, I have to say it.

[Jess McHugh]

My dog just worms so loud. He's like, I agree.

[Lacey Mosley]

You can still be smart. Look, two things can be true. I'm not saying the worm caused it. You could still be smart and capable if you had a worm. I'm just saying I don't know if the worm helped, and I'm not gonna know. So that's my conspiracy. Yeah. There's, like, a lot of legitimate insight that you can pull out of how people process information, especially now that it's being thrown at us so quickly, and it doesn't really feel like especially. That's one thing that scams prey upon is the faster I can get you to do something, the less time you have to think about it.

[Jess McHugh]

Right?

[Lacey Mosley]

So scams usually have a hard deadline. They're starting to use more menacing language now. I keep getting these text messages that are like, you didn't pay this toll, and if you don't do it by tomorrow, then we're going to impound your car. You got on the freeway, and you didn't pay for this, and we're looking for you, like, and I'm like, how pressing is it if you send in the text? Like, we were talking earlier before we were on air, and Jake said there might be some fire trucks in the episode. Could you imagine if your house was on fire and somebody text you that, like, hey, Jake, your house is in flames?

[Jess McHugh]

That's so true.

[Lacey Mosley]

Call police asap. Like, this is not urgent information.

[Jake Halpern]

I might believe it, though, because I have two teenage sons that struggle with the toaster. Oh, so it's like. Like, it's in the realm of possible.

[Lacey Mosley]

Lacey, I think you've raised them better than that. They not gonna snail mail you like, dad, house on fire, cough, cough, Dan emoji. Like, I think I can tell based on how smart you are that you raised them than that.

[Jake Halpern]

But it's like, thank you for that.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, but it is like, when you get a text message or a menacing email, like, they're putting in that time constraint. So people are doing it everywhere scams. But, yeah, no, I think. I think that this is all so fascinating. So deep cover, y'. All. If you've not done a deep dive on Sarah Kavanaugh, it's pretty shocking the things she was up to and the scam she was running for quite some time. But let's get into our.

[Jake Halpern]

Lacy, can I turn the tables on you for a second and ask you, like, how did you get into this space? Like, what was your scam? What was your kind of drawn to the scam space?

[Lacey Mosley]

It was kind of a scam in itself. The true crime comedy space was so saturated, and I never felt quite comfortable with making light of, like, anyone's real death. Like, I just don't think it's. And I know people out there do it, and I'm not trying to throw shade at them. There's a people. You know, sometimes I laugh through funerals or we tell jokes and stuff. I know people have different coping mechanisms, but for me, I Just knew that that wasn't something that I wanted to be involved in, and I just wanted to do a comedy show. So that was my scam. This was my Trojan hors. Scamming hadn't really, like, popped up in the zeitgeist yet. And I was like, yeah, a show about journalism and scams, but mostly just me doing comedy, but also some journalism. Like, I love it. But my whole life, I've been fascinated with them because I am an actor, too. And a lot of scammers are performers. They have costumes, they have accents. You know, they get deep into character, like Sarah Kavanaugh, who got deep into character for six years. And so there is a performance element to it that I've always found fascinating, sometimes hilarious, and sometimes deeply sinister. And all of it is interesting to me.

[Jess McHugh]

Totally.

[Jake Halpern]

And I feel like. Lacy, I feel like we. We all do a version of it, right? We don't take it to the extremes, but we all have a version of ourselves that we curate, that we put forward. This is. This is who we are. This is the. These are the stories we're gonna tell about ourselves. This is our origin story. This and that, like, we put up. There's an element of that. Right. That everyone engages in. I think that the. The scammers just take it to this kind of extreme end where they're, you know, they're using it in a manipulative way to get things they want. But to some extent, there's very few people that. My wife is one of those few people who doesn't. My wife will always tell you the truth, even when you don't want to hear it, which is its own form of intensity.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's also intensity, but it also is love. I appreciate people who will tell me the truth, but I think what you're saying, Jake, is so spot on, because it's as simple as, how are you doing? I've never asked someone how they were doing, and they've been like, I thought about jumping off my balcony today. If you're seeing someone in passing, they're not gonna tell you how they're really doing. They're not gonna be like, I'm on the brink of financial ruin. Thank you so much for this coffee. That'.

[Jake Halpern]

No one's put out the Instagram picture with the big ass zit right in the middle of their forehead. Right, Right.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. It's an appropriate amount of vulnerability, too. Cause there are spaces where, you know, it's not. It's culturally not appropriate for us to just be radically honest. Like, you could Be sitting in a meeting with your boss. And, you know, there's a hierarchy there. So you might be like, per my last email, and not like, you didn't read my email. You suck at your job. So I'll tell you again, it's like we have to. Do we all have to carry and wear like a little bit of a mask sometimes, Jake. So it's like, that's. I think people can also understand scammers is. Cause it's like, perhaps I don't have the unmitigated gall to go out here and do these, like, intricate, sometimes hilarious, sometimes just like, stupefying crimes. But I'm interested in it because each day we do all have to kind of put on just a little bit of a show. Just a little taste.

[Jake Halpern]

100%. Yeah, we all dabble in it a little bit, right?

[Jess McHugh]

Yeah. And no, I was just gonna say that Jake and I have talked a lot about how journalism is a form of storytelling. But. But con artistry is also a form of storytelling. Like, in order to get someone to give you money or love or admiration or all the things that are con artists are hustling for, you have to be able to tell a good story. People don't just fork those things over for nothing. And so that was certainly the case with Sarah. But it's the case for all scammers that I've met and researched is they are masterful storytellers.

[Lacey Mosley]

You're so right. Because if you come up to me and you're just like, give me money. I'm not going to give it to you. But there is something that's taught in psychology that I've mentioned on the show. If you've listened before, I know you've already heard it. I'll cut to it that typically if you're in a situation, you just give people an excuse. Most people are conflict avoidant. So you can literally say anything like, give me money. My car broke down. And some people will be like, I'm so sorry to hear that. I only have $5. But you know, here you go. But if you walk up to anybody, you're just like, hey, I need some of your money.

[Jess McHugh]

That's a harder.

[Lacey Mosley]

Sell some of the money. I don't think it's a great strategy for granted. We're getting other people to be gracious. You're right, Jess. You need a good story. Because I can't get off and my.

[Jake Halpern]

Car broke down is the shittiest scam story of all time. It's like the dog ate my homework it's like, seriously, come on. Like, give me a little bit of like, yeah, how old is the car? Like, give me some details.

[Lacey Mosley]

How old is the car? See, the man would ask that, just, like, what model? I might be able to help you fix it. I'm like, no, no, no. I don't need you to help me fix it. Are you sure? I've dabbled. I got a torque wrench. I could help you. Like, you too. Help. I was like, just give me the money. I'll fix the car.

[Jake Halpern]

I would. I would not offer to fix your car. I would just give you the money.

[Lacey Mosley]

Is it the carburetor? What is it? Tell me specifically what's wrong with your car. No, you're so right. I want to see y' all congregation reach out to me if you've ever had somebody just come up and ask you for some of your money. And you were like, sure. No story, nothing convincing. I just want. Somebody walked up to you, was like, hey, you look like you have some money, and I need. I need that from you. I just feel like it's not convincing. So you. You. Jess. Wait, My producer Jess said somebody came up to her and asked for some money. She gave him some money.

[Jess McHugh]

My sister once called me my stranger.

[Lacey Mosley]

That is your sister.

[Jess McHugh]

No, I don't talk to her. We don't talk to her. She's dead to me. And she calls me and she's like, hey, I heard you got a good job. So you owe me money from, like, five years ago.

[Lacey Mosley]

I need you to just give it to me.

[Jess McHugh]

But you owe me money. Feels different than, can I have some money?

[Lacey Mosley]

See, she still gave you a store. She said, remember when I gave you the money? Also, I'm your sister.

[Jake Halpern]

Yeah, yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

That's a cold call for money, Jess. It's not a cold call for money.

[Jake Halpern]

Wait, did you. Did you know what she was talking about? Did you know when she said you owe, or is it just.

[Lacey Mosley]

No? I was like, what are you talking about? Just start this story. This person asked me for. Randomly asked me for money. It did also was my blood sister, but I don't talk. Thank you. I don't know if you.

[Jake Halpern]

I don't know if any of you guys have kids. The. The. Do. Do you. Do you guys have kids? Any of you?

[Lacey Mosley]

No, I don't have any unemployed people in my house.

[Jake Halpern]

Let me tell you exactly what it's like to be a parent in the age of Apple Pay. You get these Messages at like 10am He's. They're in school. Can I have four apple bucks. It's like, you know. And it's like, you. You know, I would never. You could never do that. In the old days, you would have to ask your parent. But now it's like these little. These little notes that come in, and you're just like, oh, God. And then he'll text me again. I'll be, all right. Here's your four apple bucks, yo.

[Lacey Mosley]

They're geniuses. For that, I will say I don't have any children, but I do have a kid sister who's significantly younger than me. Oh. And best believe, she's like, I need money for a party bus. I'm like, ma', am, why is that? Why is that my problem? And she said, like, she really needed it. I was like, I don't think you do.

[Jake Halpern]

I was like, ma', am, that's amazing.

[Lacey Mosley]

I just threw you a party and gave you a bunch of money, and here you back again. No, I need the party bus, though. You don't understand. We need it. No, my little brother used to do.

[Jess McHugh]

The opposite, where he would give us a gift to convince us to let him throw a party in the house. So he sent my older sister an edible arrangement when my parents were away, saying, hey, Abby, can I have a party while mom and dad are gone? Here's some crushed pineapple or whatever.

[Lacey Mosley]

See, that's a little bit more of a scam tactic. Like, Jake's kids are like, give me money, father. But he was like, give a little to get a little. Can I enjoy enough to let me throw a party? Yeah. It was tasty, huh? Just like that party I'm gonna throw that we just agreed to. Yep. Everybody on the same page. So glad.

[Jess McHugh]

It was very subtle.

[Lacey Mosley]

I love it. Robbery and fraud. I love it. Well, let's get into our historic hoodwink for this week. So, I wanted your expert opinions about a scam that happened in the 90s. We're gonna throw it back a little bit. Why not? So, several works of art worth half a billion dollars were stolen from a Boston museum in, like, a midnight art heist. Oh, my God. It was the biggest property crime in U.S. history.

[Jake Halpern]

Garden Museum.

[Jess McHugh]

Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yep. @. And it's still unsolved. With the art still missing, there's a $10 million reward on the table for anyone with information leading to directly safely returning the art. Now, I do want to start by saying this is giving spy versus Spy, because museums ain't nothing. But look at what we stole. You didn't own that art either, okay? You just stole it for long enough that you were like. But we stole it for longer. So it's hours. And we put a little light on and we hung it up real cute. We got a person in white gloves who won't let you touch things. Okay. We've earned it. But yes, you're exactly right. So the heist happened March 18, 1990, which was the day of, like, the St. Patrick's Day in Boston, which is an iconic day. I think it's kind of our. You know, when they used to have, like. Are they called cabals? No, that's not right. There was like a ceremony that people used to have where, like, one day out of the year, they would just act batshit crazy.

[Jess McHugh]

The Purge.

[Lacey Mosley]

It might be a cabal. You look it up for me, it wasn't the Purge. They gave it some kind of meaning. It was like the end of the harvest before or whatever. Somebody will come up with it for me. But St. Patrick's Day has always felt like the Purge or like some kind of, like, Universal day where we're like, we're all gonna go outside and be unhinged. So I think that's a great day to steal.

[Jess McHugh]

Personally, this is my favorite fact about this heist also because I'm from Boston originally. It's a fucking. So I don't actually. Sorry, I don't know if I could swear on this.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's a. Oh, you can swear on the show.

[Jess McHugh]

Okay, cool.

[Lacey Mosley]

And it's bacchanal. It came to me. No one Googled it.

[Jess McHugh]

Ah, bacchanal.

[Lacey Mosley]

Nice. That's.

[Jess McHugh]

That's a four dollar word.

[Lacey Mosley]

I told you. I read back to what you were saying, Jess.

[Jess McHugh]

So Boston is a mess all the time of drunk Irish people. And St Patrick's Day is an insane time. And I remember reading that whoever the thieves were, that they chose this day on purpose. Cause they knew the whole city, everyone would be drunk. And this was the time to strike. And they were right about that.

[Lacey Mosley]

And they're absolutely right. The police are overwhelmed. Some of the police are probably also drunk. And everyone's running around the streets. There's no way to pay attention to everything that's going on. So the museum, I'm about to call it the library, they don't care about those either. But the museum was probably the least of everyone's concerns that day. So. Perfect. Perfect day to do this. So this is the biggest day for public drunkenness in North America, like we just said. And it's also a day when all the Boston cops are distracted. Like we Also just said, At 1am that morning, two white men in police uniforms and probably fake mustaches rang the night buzzer for the Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum, a few blocks away from where the parade route would be, claiming they were responding to a disturbance. And we have a photo of them. Well, at least a police gang. It looks legit. And this is very funny. We will post this to the Instagram. But this looks like every cop you saw in an 80s mov. Every cop that was at the YMCA. Every cop you can still see now dancing in a go Go outfit in West Hollywood. We were not gonna catch this white man. This white man is faceless.

[Jess McHugh]

Look at the Village People.

[Lacey Mosley]

I can't even believe they got a good sketch out of it, because I've never seen a face that screams John Harder in my life. Like, John Smith, we are never finding you. If I had this face, I would also do robberies.

[Jess McHugh]

I mean, no wonder they got away with it. The perfect yes.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's like, you know, some people are just gifted. Usain Bolt. I'll never be able to run as fast as him, but if I was this faceless man, I would have to use my talent somehow. And we'll show you the sketches. They're very cartoonishly hilarious. Like, they also look like every white man in Boston.

[Jess McHugh]

Yeah, it's true. It's really true. I can. Yeah, growing up in Boston, I can support that. This looks like every friend of my dad's I've ever met.

[Lacey Mosley]

There's a sketch now that's, like, problematic, but it was on MADtv where they were like, he looked like a man. Like, these men look like man. Ms. Swan was just like, he looked like a man. They were like, we need you to give us details. It was like, I just did. He looked like a man. I'm not gonna do the accent, but y' all know. Y' all know what I'm talking about. So once inside, they reportedly told the two security guards, rick and Randy, gentlemen, this is so Boston. Sorry.

[Jess McHugh]

I don't know why Rick and Randy really got me.

[Lacey Mosley]

They told Rick and Randy, gentlemen, this is a robbery. And that's a terrible Boston accent, but I don't care. So they overpowered and tied up the guards with duct tape. The robbers spent the next 81 minutes seizing 13 works of art valued at over $500 million, making it the largest property crime in US history. When the morning security shift arrived at 7:30am, no one was there to buzz them in the building. When they did not get in through the back door, they found Security cameras turned away and the VHS tapes gone. And an empty frame and a crowbar in the security office. They were just showing off with that crowbar. You could have took crowbar with you. And Rick and Randy were still duct taped in the basement in the Dutch room and the blue room of the museum. Paintings had been smashed to break their glass and the canvases cut out of their frames with a knife. And I just want to. Can we go back to Rick, Ricky? Ricky and Randy.

[Jess McHugh]

This Rick and Randy look cooler than I was expecting.

[Lacey Mosley]

How they duct taped them I don't like.

[Jess McHugh]

Is that a beard? I can't totally see.

[Jake Halpern]

What, Is that his face?

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes. They duct taped these people.

[Jake Halpern]

That's, that's wrong. The guy's just trying to make minimum wage, right?

[Lacey Mosley]

It looks like these two poor guys just had like a, a facelift. Like they look like they got their neck done. That's how they taped it.

[Jake Halpern]

Looks like it looks like Chewbacca with duct tape. Oh, it's real wrong.

[Lacey Mosley]

And also like, you know that duct tape hurt when they took it off because these men are the hairiest security guards I've ever seen in my life. They're also pretty non threatening, like slimmer builds, like they probably have never had to fight anybody ever. All they have to do is tell people like, oh, don't touch the odd and these guys gotta pay and like they've never had to like tackle anybody. Like they have to just sip sparkling water and hang out.

[Jess McHugh]

The accent is getting better and better, by the way. I'm really, I'm here for it.

[Lacey Mosley]

I'm trying, I'm giving you my best, but yeah, so they were already slight. Poor little men anyway. So I'm sure that it wasn't hard for these two tough Boston looking dudes to tie them up in a cartoonish manner. So let's see a little bit of the news clip here from when this happened.

[Jake Halpern]

The thieves hit the Dutch room on the second floor. The short gallery just down the hall. The blue room just off the visitor's entrance. Picking and choosing their targets. The shopping list included a Vermeer, the Concert and three Rembrandts among them. The Storm on the Sea of Galilee.

[Lacey Mosley]

Anyone who knows this collection even casually.

[Jess McHugh]

Would know that the Rembrandts and the Vermeer, being the only Vermeer in New England, are very valuable paintings.

[Jake Halpern]

They ripped some from the walls, sliced others from their frames. Experts believe the well planned heist was a contract job.

[Jess McHugh]

I would characterize it very much as a tragedy, not only to the art World, but to the people of this country.

[Lacey Mosley]

Okay, sorry to all the Bostonians, but how the hell did y' all get three Rembrandts to Boston? Because I just feel like they should have never let y' all have these.

[Jess McHugh]

I agree with that.

[Lacey Mosley]

And I actually can answer this question.

[Jess McHugh]

Because I love the. I love this museum. And it was.

[Lacey Mosley]

Three Rembrandts in Biloxi, Mississippi, have been stolen. No, those did not belong there.

[Jess McHugh]

One wasn't enough. Apparently, Boston people have some culture between all of the binge drinking and fighting street.

[Lacey Mosley]

You know what? I'm sure y' all do, because you have. I mean, you have great land, Hallmark, people who came out of Boston, like Hilaria Baldwin. So I know. I know that y' all have some. Some character there and some culture. I'm not gonna throw too much shade on y'. All. 3 feels like too many. I feel like I would have been fine with one.

[Jess McHugh]

I think we would have been fine with one, too. And then we would maybe still have one instead of zero.

[Lacey Mosley]

Right. And it should have been guarded in, like, bulletproof glass and watched 24 7. Because the girls in Boston need their culture, too. But three is. Three is insane. So just saying, y' all gotta take some onus in this too. I don't like to blame the victim, but I just feel like, what were y' all doing? Um, I could definitely see it being an inside job, but the only reason that I don't necessarily agree is because, well, there's two. I have two minds here. You have to have a specific set of skills to boost that kind of art. Like, you can't just go selling that on the street. So you definitely have to be connected in the art world in some way. So I'm not gonna say that there weren't some other deeper ties here to how you could move this kind of, like, precious cargo. It's like when if someone sold a Hope diamond, you can't go sell that at Zales. Like, people are gonna know. But the other part of me is, like, they cut the pictures out with knives. Yeah. And that just feels a little barbaric for something, you know, that coveted. Y' all cut it out with an X acto knife.

[Jess McHugh]

I really feel like it's gotta be mobsters, like, Mafia. I'm picturing, like, mafia bosses. Feels like a commit, like some sort of an order.

[Jake Halpern]

You can't sell these things that. That's the problem with. I did another story about in Paris. Yeah, I did. I was actually wrote letters to the guy that stole. He was in jail, we were like pen pals for a year. And I was asking him a lot of questions. The problem is you can't sell this stuff because you can't put it on the open market. And so the value is actually, it's not what everyone says it is, because who's going to buy it? Because whoever buys it can't show it. So actually, they say that what happens with these pieces of art often is. You're right, Jess. They do end up in mob hands. And then it can be used as a get out of jail free card. If you reduce my sentence, I will tell you where that Rembrandt is stashed. And so that's the value of it.

[Jess McHugh]

It's a very expensive bargaining chip.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, gotta be somebody trying to, like, get out of a rico, because otherwise, how do you use this? And if you got to rob a museum and you had 81 minutes and you didn't bring any power tools and you were hitting things with crowbar. Yeah, it's giving. It's giving Mafio. It's giving Big Tony in them because they were like, yeah, just take that one. I saw that. My wife said, that's a good one. Yeah, yeah, let's get that. Smashy smash. No, it's gonna still be worth something. We just stabbing up the corners a little bit. Nah, nah, it'll be fine. Like, we'll get a. We'll get a smaller frame. We'll get a smaller frame. Nobody even know that we stabbed up the corners. Like, what are you doing?

[Jess McHugh]

Yeah, it's not really giving. Professional criminal.

[Lacey Mosley]

No, not at all. It was Ocean's 2. They didn't have the full 11. They did what they could. They went to Home Depot real quick and they were like, all right, let's do the Mafas. Do the heist. All right? We get in there. The way they duct tape them, people. Just keep wrapping it around his head. Just keep wrapping it. It'll work. My son made a wallet like this once. Just keep wrapping it. But, yeah, so this is just. This is very unserious and very unsophisticated, but funny. So the 13 works that were stolen from the museum haven't been found. They took three paintings by 1600s. Dutch master Rembrandt that we just talked about shouldn't have been there in the first place. Including Stor on the Sea of Galilee, which is his only seascape. They also took Manisha's Torrini. Sorry, Tortoni.

[Jess McHugh]

I'm not familiar.

[Lacey Mosley]

Made the pizza rolls.

[Jess McHugh]

I'm not I'll take your word for it.

[Lacey Mosley]

But they took this, and it was painted in 1875 in France. Vermeer's the Concert was one of only 33 works Vermeer ever did, and now one is gone. It's considered the most valuable stolen object in the world, probably worth more than $200 million on its own. I do want to say that a lot of art valuation is just money laundering. And we all know that because we've seen ridiculous things be sold for millions. Like a banana that was duct taped to a wall. Y' all are money laundering. It was a real banana, too. Like, please be serious. This is.

[Jess McHugh]

I missed this. When did this happen?

[Lacey Mosley]

At Art Basel. That's where they do all the laundry. Okay. If you a crypto king, if you a Miami baller, you gotta go to Art Basel and do a little bit of crime so you can keep the tax man out of your business. We all know that. And then you go to the club, get to the club. You smoke a little hookah after you did your art crime. It works great.

[Jess McHugh]

That's what I always say.

[Lacey Mosley]

Excellent formula. No notes. So they also took five small sketches by French artist Edgar Degas, drawn on paper that was less than a square foot in size and worth less than $100,000 combined. They were just like. I don't know if this. This looks thin and papery. We take it.

[Jess McHugh]

That seems random to me. Yeah.

[Lacey Mosley]

Also missing was a bronze beaker used for serving wine in ancient China that also doesn't belong in Boston. Let's be serious. Ancient China. Why do y' all have it the least Chinese place in America, and y' all got stuff from ancient China, so. And this thing is, like, about 10 inches tall. We have a photo of it. And although it's one of the oldest works in the museum, dating from the 12th century BC, it was only worth a few thousand dollars. Last, they took a French Imperial eagle finale or flagpole topper from the corner of a framed flag for Napoleon's Imperial Guard. No one really knows why anyone would have taken this particular thing unless you thought it was made of gold instead of bronze. That's what they thought.

[Jess McHugh]

I'm thinking with someone's mob wife.

[Lacey Mosley]

Get that chunk of gold. We'll melt it down. Get the chunk.

[Jess McHugh]

I think someone's mob wife really wanted this particular thing for her dining table or something.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, yes, you're right. It's sitting there every holiday.

[Jess McHugh]

You know it.

[Lacey Mosley]

She got it out. She was like, you know, Tony boosted that for me. Yeah. He really loves Me.

[Jess McHugh]

It was the bronze anniversary, Right?

[Lacey Mosley]

That's. He's so sweet. He's always thinking about the family. Yeah. Because some of these things, they were just like, I don't know, it's shiny. We take it. So the thieves passed other valuable works by, like, Raphael, Botticelli, and Michelangelo and left them. Why do y' all have a Michelangelo again? Too many nice things in one place. This is. I gotta blame you. So they didn't even go to the third floor where Titans the Rape of Europa hung, which is among, like, the most valuable paintings in Boston. So whoever did it had a very specific, eclectic taste, or they didn't actually know that much about art, especially about Isabella Stewart Gardner's 100-year-old personal collection. So maybe they're just like, stuff is worth a lot. We gonna take some things. But they left some things that people would have typically looked at if they even had a passing familiarity with art. Because there's so many lithograms of this photo. Like, you can get it on a mug, you can get it on a T shirt. You know what I mean? Like, it's been so saturated throughout the market, even though obviously having the real thing means something to some people.

[Jess McHugh]

Yeah, it's true. I will say, if I were to commit a crime, Crime, Art thievery seems like the most fun. I don't know if I would take that particular painting, but definitely something from the Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum. That was my favorite museum growing up.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. It feels fun and classy, for sure. Not the way they did it, but.

[Jake Halpern]

You know, it's romantic.

[Jess McHugh]

It is.

[Lacey Mosley]

It's like, better than going to, like, a ace cash and go and being like, get me out of money. Like, that's so unsophisticated.

[Jake Halpern]

Although a jewel thief. I don't know. It's close with the. You know, the little velvet sack with the diamonds.

[Lacey Mosley]

Ooh, the velvet sack with all the little diamonds that look like rocks because they don't have a setting. Ooh, that is.

[Jake Halpern]

You can sell that and you can sell those.

[Lacey Mosley]

You can definitely boost those, and you can just trade them to people for things that are more valuable. Get a boat.

[Jess McHugh]

You know, as you can see, journalists have thought a lot about what would our plan B look like?

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes, you're right. Oh, we probably get to do a little dance around some lasers. Yeah, that's sophisticated. You definitely have to wear all black and, like, fancy gloves, Very little whiskey mask. Yeah, you get to have some costumery, Jess. I agree with both of you. Like, Jake, I think diamonds and art are the most romantic robberies. But the way they did it made it like a smash and grab. So it's not as romantic, truly, on St. Patrick's Day, right, They're like, we want the stuff. They didn't do it all classy.

[Jake Halpern]

But it is funny, though, right? Like, that we give some thieves a pass, that we're like, that's romantic. That's. That's, you know, kind of chic. That seems, like, sexy, or that seems like I, you know, that's a hero, but someone else who, like, steals your car or something, who's poor, like, that's, you know, I don't know. It's funny the way we classify these criminals in our brain.

[Lacey Mosley]

I think it's also because we all intrinsically know that museums are nothing but a host, a heist. Like, memorabilia it is. Look at all this shit we stole. So when somebody takes something from there, we're kind of like, well, you did steal it too. And, like, diamonds, the way that we acquire them and the blood diamonds and the mines. It's also like, well, he was kind of doing a bad thing with all them babies you had working. So, yeah, you got to take one. You got to charge it to the game.

[Jess McHugh]

It's true.

[Lacey Mosley]

Like, you're not that great either. Yeah, that's why robbers rob. Other robbers were like, yes.

[Jake Halpern]

It's funny, too, when you heard the spokesman in that clip you played, she framed it as they stole it from the people of New England. But it doesn't really.

[Lacey Mosley]

Really.

[Jake Halpern]

I don't know. That resonates with people. They're like, you took it from a museum. You took it, you know, from a private collection. You didn't take it from me.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, yeah. It's not like I go there every day and look at it, and I'm like, it's mine. Maybe you take your kids once or twice or school field trip, and you're like, look at the beauty. But it's not something where I would be like, this is mine. I don't own that. But it's cute that they tried to make it like, I think they were trying to make it worse than what it was so that people would have some empathy for the museum. Because it's really hard sometimes to have empathy if you feel like the person who's the victim is not. And we do have to work on this, because bad things happen to bad people, too. That doesn't mean that the bad person shouldn't pay for the crime. You know, it shouldn't be, like the. The perfect victim. But when it comes to institutional crimes like this, it's just a little harder. I mean, it was harder with that Brian C. Oh, God. Luigi Mangione allegedly might have been around when he died. We don't know. Everybody was of kind. Kind of like, it sounds like he was a bad dude. It does amaze me how out of touch you can be when you get that rich where, like, your bottom line is people's, like, bottoming of life, right? And, like, it was bottoming. Y' all know. You know what I meant by that, but let's keep it in. Fascinating. No, not that, but it is fascinating because you saw these CEOs, like, kind of at the beginning, like, come out, and we're like, this is insane. Like, we can't believe this person alleged. And then slowly, when they realized people were not on their side, all their pictures started to disappear from their websites. Like, Blue Cross Blue shit was like, never mind. On the whole anesthesia thing, you can have as much anesthesia as you want. We're not gonna cut it off mid surgery. Like we said before, that was crazy. We were joking. We all agree, don't kill us.

[Jess McHugh]

Don't shoot us, please.

[Lacey Mosley]

They're like, actually, we're having an anesthesia palooza right now up at the headquarters. Y' all could pull up and get a tank. It's so funny how quickly that tune changed. But, you know, literally, I don't know where I stand on that. And also, just legally, I'd never tell you if I did. But, yeah, it's interesting to see, like, what we evaluate as, like, a bad crime versus, like, a crime of opportunity, that we're like, this is fine. I think stealing an individual's car is worse because it's like, you stole one person's car, you could have gone to the dealership.

[Jess McHugh]

Right.

[Lacey Mosley]

And then we'd be more on your side.

[Jess McHugh]

I think you're fine.

[Lacey Mosley]

You're not good. Either one of them. But if you took somebody's car and now they gotta walk versus, like, you know, rich man, Mr. High Honda, who's just got them all sitting outside looking shiny. Like, that feels better.

[Jake Halpern]

Yeah, right? Because anyone that, like, you steal, like, giant diamonds from someone, you just assume they're gonna be all right.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. If they. If they could have wealth that was so exorbitant that they were like, I don't know. I spend a lot of money on rocks. Yeah, I think it'll be fine. I think it'll be okay. That being said, all the rocks that I have, which is very few, I'd need. And I look at them every day, and they're the reason I. And I live, so.

[Jess McHugh]

Makes you sound like Gollum or something. I like that. You did.

[Jake Halpern]

You did sound like Gollum.

[Lacey Mosley]

My precious. My precious rocks. They're very tiny, y'. All. They got occlusions. These aren't even rocks you would want. Okay. I just like them.

[Jess McHugh]

Let me keep them.

[Lacey Mosley]

To wrap this up, though. But. So let's learn just a little bit about Isabella Stewart Gardner. Isabella was a former American collector, philanthropist, and patron of the arts in the late 1800s in Bo. After marrying Rich, she had one child who died. Then a miscarriage, which left her unable to have more children. When having kids was no longer an option, she and her husband dedicated their lives to traveling and buying art. She was an eccentric who liked to make weaves. Oh, sorry. Waves. Socially. And she was a die hard sports fan. She wore a Red Sox headband to a concert at the Boston Symphony Orchestra in 1912 and almost caused a panic.

[Jess McHugh]

That's the most Boston thing ever. Ever heard.

[Lacey Mosley]

She's so Boston. But you know what? She had duality. She was like, I'm Boston, but also aunt. You know, I love it. So the musicians were so shocked to see it that they momentarily stopped playing. This is the picture. And wait, is she in a full. No, that's not her. Okay. I was like, she didn't go with a full uniform in Jersey. That's a little boy. That'd be. But that'd be a really bold. I was about to say, okay. She is doing too much. Like, the orchestra was like, this is the most ghetto shit I've ever seen in my life. They had to stop real quick. Like, we can't believe this. She is uncouth. Wow. But she sounds like a good time to me. So she designed a Venetian palace to house all of her art as a formal museum after her husband died. It opened on January 1, 1903, with a grand opening celebration featuring a performance by members of the same orchestra that thought she was ghetto. And a menu that included champagne and donuts. I mean, Shiloh champagne.

[Jess McHugh]

We love that.

[Lacey Mosley]

And whatever the Boston cream. It is gorgeous. This is absolutely breathtaking.

[Jake Halpern]

Jess, is that, like what we're looking at there? That greenhouse? That. Is that a glass roof? That's like a greenhouse courtyard?

[Jess McHugh]

Yeah. It's stunning. And it's. Right when you walk in, you see this, like, Venetian courtyard, and then on the left, there's this huge flamenco dancer painting. It's incredible. It's really an incredible museum.

[Jake Halpern]

Yeah. My God, look at that.

[Lacey Mosley]

This is like what Donald Trump thought his casinos looked like.

[Jake Halpern]

That's right.

[Lacey Mosley]

He was in his head. They look like this. They're not just like shiny gold, like toilets and stuff. Like, I think he thought he did this. Like he might have some dysmorphia about how it looks. But this is like so beautiful. It's really tasteful.

[Jess McHugh]

Although at the time, I'm sure that Boston people thought that this was trashy and, and too European or some.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, they probably. You're right, it's too European for Boston. But she was trying to class up the joint. Okay. She. She gonna wear her hat to the symphony. But she also was giving it some class and panache. So we'll give it for her. After the robbery in 1990, the FBI immediately took over the investigation. But they didn't have a fine art division and they didn't recover any useful physical evidence. Sotheby's and Christie's offered $1 million rewards to start start with if they could recover any of the art. The museum rang off the hook with tips, but nothing paid off. With no arrests or suspects taken for questioning by 1997, the the museum increased the award to $5 million and then later $10 million. She really wanted those paintings back. The museum did. And people have theories. I'm sure you guys have heard some of these. But like we said earlier, the paintings would be impossible to sell and very difficult to fence. Given how public the robbery had been and how famous the paintings were, that these were probably not professional. We could tell that. And they didn't know how to handle the art or plan where it was going to go. That's another thing is I feel like they threw this in the back of like a Chevy. And like this art needs to be lit properly. You know, you can't have water damage. I feel like this art had a lot of like beer spilled on it. I really don't think they knew how to take care of it. They don't strike me as like white gloves.

[Jess McHugh]

Is it cause they cut it out of the frames?

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, that's a little bit to do it. I don't think any true art lover, especially if you have 81 minutes. Come on, get a power tool. Like cutting it out is crazy. So some theorize that a crime lord could have hired a team to steal the art. Like you were saying, Jake, like very like Dr. No style Russian oligarch or rich oil baron. Others believe the theft could have been an inside job. We talked about that too. Given how easily the Thieves got into the museum. I don't think it's that. I just think on Saint Patric, they knew nobody was gonna be looking for high art. Like, the museum was very probably quiet that day. Yeah. So there was a secret door in the Dutch room which was ajar when the investigators got there. So the thieves must have known about it. They triggered a proximity detector alarm at one of the Rembrandt paintings during the robbery and didn't seem to be phased by that or speed up their process either. So that's why it's given an inside job theory. They were like, oh, it shifted an alarm, but it's not a big deal if it's your house. Like, we've all tripped our own alarm and been like, oh, let's call ADD but if I was robbing the place, I'd be like, oh, we gotta get outta here. So Rick, the security guard who buzzed in the robbers, was a rock musician and known pothead at the time. Known pothead is so funny to me.

[Jess McHugh]

I just say we're gonna blame him.

[Jake Halpern]

Cause he was smoking potential terminology there.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yes. And also, what does that even mean? Like, that he was real.

[Jake Halpern]

What rock star, what rock musician is not a known pot.

[Jess McHugh]

A known pothead.

[Lacey Mosley]

Not a known pothead. He was. He was getting the word out there. One time I saw a flyer on the street. It was like, it's me, Rick. I'm a known pothead. I love weed. I just wanted you to know that about me. Fun facts. Marijuana is my friend. Like, I don't know. But rick died in 2024 at the age of 57. He always said he was innocent, and investigators never arrested him. He was like, I was somewhere smoking pot, y', all, like. Or he was high. When he buzzed him in. He probably wasn't thinking somebody was gonna do a 5 million, $500 million heist. He was just like, oh, people wanna come in the. They look like cups. I love pot. Makes sense to me. Adds up. Truly organized crime often uses stolen artists international currency. We talked about that, too. To buy drugs or weapons using 10% of its public valuation on the actual art market. So the 500 million worth would have only been like 50 million on the dark market. So the FBI looks closely at the Irish and Italian mobs as suspects at the time. Damn them stereotypes. Which we leaned into heavily in this. We were looking at y'. All. The first stop is the mob. So we had a suspect, Bobby, who was implicated in the crime. But they could never pin anything on him. He just loved weed and he died at 57. Rick was the suspect, but he died of weed. I really had to keep. He might have not died of weed job, but he did. And so then famous art thief Miles Connor, who was in jail at the time of the theft, so he has an alibi of prison, claims that Bobby had done it. Now, Bobby wasn't a crime family, so this made sense. But unfortunately, Bobby was found dead in the trunk of his Cadillac in 1991. So they couldn't talk to Bobby. But it sounds like somebody in the crime family caught up with Bobby, because trunk is not usually a suspicious death.

[Jess McHugh]

Natural circumstance.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, Nobody's like, this is it for me. And then pops their own trunk. So, no, we don't know what happened to Bobby. But with no Bobby gone now in 2013, this is wrapping it up. The FBI announced that they were very confident that they figured out who did the heist, but they didn't say who they were, only that they are now dead and they didn't recover the art. Although they've never named the suspects, they were probably talking about Bobby Donati and members of the Italian mob. Federal prosecutors have said anyone who willingly returns to art will not be prosecuted. Yeah, we believe you Feds. I also love the art.

[Jess McHugh]

I love the. We know who did it, but we won't tell you. That's a good move. I want to start doing that.

[Lacey Mosley]

Is it? They're like, we're on to you, but we're not going to tell you who. Because if you know we know, then we know you know.

[Jake Halpern]

By the way, that would be the most crap true crime podcast of all time.

[Lacey Mosley]

I know who did it, but I'm not going to tell you. You know that we know that you know who we are.

[Jake Halpern]

Yeah. We'd be in business for, like, one day.

[Lacey Mosley]

Oh, right. This is definitely not what you guys do. Deep cover is beating. I know who you are, but you don't know who we are. But I guess you can see me, but we're not gonna tell you. And to put in terms of how unserious that is, Mayor Eric Adams tried this when they were looking for a suspect in that shooting that allegedly Luigi Mangiani was involved in. Allegedly very much heavy on the alleged. So Merrick Adams got on. He's so unserious. He's at the nightclub all the time. I've never seen a mayor with so many celebrities. Like, why is your Instagram popping? Go be the mayor of New York City, please, sir. Why are you out here getting likes and follows? Put the hookah down and Be serious. He came out and was like, we know who it is. We're not gonna tell y', all, but we know, Like, y' all definitely don't know. It's not a good strategy. I don't think it can only work on small children. Like, we. No, just. Yeah. What'd you say?

[Jake Halpern]

By the way, I love that the hookah is a theme because Adams is smoking. But also, the Art Basel folks comes back to the hookah.

[Lacey Mosley]

Listen, people who do crime love hookah, and they also love to live in downtown Los Angeles. These are facts. I don't make the rules. If you've ever been to downtown la, you know everybody there is employed at Crime Co, okay? And you know, people love. Love hookah, okay? Nothing. Nothing relaxes you more after a day of chicanery than an ice mango hookah in the club. I stand on this. You know where the highest crime per capita is? Like, in scams. Atlanta, Georgia. Do you know how many hookah restaurants they have? Anywhere you go, there's gonna be a step and repeat, and they'll ask you if you want hookah with your steak frites. And I am not making that up.

[Jess McHugh]

I would fully read the research paper comparing hookah per capita to amazing to.

[Lacey Mosley]

The most hookah joints. I'm telling you, it's the truth. So lastly here, federal prosecutors, they were like, come in. We ain't finna jump. You just give us the painting back. The statute of limitations expired in 1995 as well, so the thieves and anyone who participated in the theft can't be prosecuted. Gardner's will decreed that nothing in her collection should be removed. So the empty frames on the walls are at the museum, too. And honestly, Isabella, that's very cunty of you, because you were like, now people will come to the museum to see the robbery, too. So we gotta keep the museum going. Like, lead a glass on the ground, too. Put some. Put a little step and repeat around the glass. And the crowbar, y', all, hang the crowbar up, okay? Cause that is high art. I love it. This is she. She really did it. She was a fun time. She's sorry you got robbed, but it's. It sounds like you lived a good life.

[Jess McHugh]

I think she even specified, like, you cannot change the color of the tapestries on the wall. You cannot repaint anything. Like, As I have died is how it should remain from here until forever now.

[Lacey Mosley]

She was wrong there. She was wrong. This style is very much outdated. This wallpaper is screaming. It's screaming out to us.

[Jess McHugh]

You don't Want a heavy sconce on the wall?

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah, that heavy medieval sconce. Like, please. That should have been held by. In a white nightgown in the 1800s as they go to use the restroom outside. It does not belong in here. Like, I. I'm fine with her having the art heist still there, but I don't know. I like a museum with white walls. I want to look at the painting. But she was like, you know what? The whole museum is the art, and we leaving it like that. Ghost socks.

[Jess McHugh]

That's right. And it's. Exactly. And it's her house. Can you imagine? You die, and you say, my house is a museum, and you can literally move nothing. Like, what the. That's the ultimate power move. I. I fucking love that.

[Lacey Mosley]

It really is. And honestly, tradition is nothing but being bullied by the dead. We can do whatever we want to that place. She gonna stop us. She gonna haunt us. We literally could paint the walls white and take everything out if we wanted to.

[Jess McHugh]

I think she would.

[Lacey Mosley]

I feel like that's one of the pervasive scams in society, because we want people to honor our last wishes. So we're like, well, if we don't honor theirs, then this. Then the culture's gonna start not honoring, and then I can't leave my old house museum the way I want it. It's fair.

[Jake Halpern]

I love that, by the way.

[Jess McHugh]

Tradition.

[Jake Halpern]

What did you say? Tradition's nothing but being bullied by the dead.

[Lacey Mosley]

Yeah. Just being bullied by the dead.

[Jess McHugh]

So good.

[Lacey Mosley]

I'm not the first person to say it, but that's what's happened. And we're like, yes, but we've done this for so long. Okay. And we used to have wooden teeth. Do you want to go back to that? Like, be serious. But that brings us to the end of a very fun episode. Thank you guys for helping me walk through the ending there. Good luck to my producers for making it make sense. See, but if y' all have y' all reading comprehension skills, you can get a red string and a murder board, and you can figure out what happened. Or you could just Google it. It's also there. No, we'll make it cute. But we always ask at the end of this podcast, where would you like to be found? Anything you want to plug, anything you want to share? Any social media?

[Jess McHugh]

Sure. Well, definitely listen to our new season of Deep Cover, the Truth About Sarah. Anywhere you get your podcasts. And hopefully a book from me coming soon, titled To Be Determined. You can me on instagram @Jessmy3 or read my stuff on Jessm.com amazing and Jake same basically.

[Jake Halpern]

Yeah. Check out our podcast the Truth About Sarah. My website's Jake Halpern.com and thank you Lacy for having us on.

[Lacey Mosley]

Thank you both for being here. As always, you can find me at D I V A L A C I Diva Lacey on all platforms. If you want to see my personal life and shenanigans. If you want to see any of these photos from this episode Scam Goddess Pod on Instagram if you want to chat with me scamgodesspod on Twitter my book is out Scam Goddess. You can get it anywhere you get your books and watch my television show Scam Goddess on Hulu and also watch Going Dutch. We're coming back for season two and all episodes are also streaming now on Hulu. Consume something with my face in it or on it, please, I beg of you. All right, congregation, I want y' all to get out there. Stay heisted Boston Scam Goddess this has been an Earwolf production in association with Team Coco. Scam Goddess stars and is hosted by me, Lacey Mosley, AKA Scam Goddess. Our producer is Jessica Cisneros and our audio engineer is Rich Garcia. Research for the show is conducted by Kate Doyle. Stay Scheming.