BONUS: Amanda’s Early Exploits: Was she ‘sick’ even back in college?

Summary

Scamanda Podcast Summary
Episode: BONUS: Amanda’s Early Exploits: Was she ‘sick’ even back in college?
Release Date: July 5, 2023
Host/Authors: Lionsgate Sound (Charlie Webster and Nancy Moscatello)
Narrated by: Amanda’s blog posts read by actor Kendall Horn

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Introduction

In this bonus episode of Scamanda, hosts Charlie Webster and Nancy Moscatello delve deeper into the enigmatic past of Amanda Riley, the central figure whose cancer journey captivated thousands through her blog. This episode specifically explores Amanda's early years during her time at San Jose State University, raising questions about the authenticity of her illness even before her public revelation in 2012.

Revisiting Amanda's University Days

Charlie Webster initiates the conversation by introducing two key figures from Amanda’s past:

• Kenrick: Assistant Director of the Resident Advisors (RA) program at San Jose State University.
• Lennon: A former Resident Advisor who worked alongside Amanda.

Nancy Moscatello emphasizes the importance of understanding Amanda’s background to unravel the complexities of her story.

Amanda’s Role and Behavior as a Resident Advisor

Kenrick provides an overview of his role and Amanda’s responsibilities:

“She was very involved in our program... She worked as a student assistant, an RA, and later as a graduate assistant for about a semester” (06:09).

Lennon describes the typical duties of an RA:

“We lived on campus... hosted events and activities to build community and engagement” (06:36).

Despite Amanda's outward appearance of being energetic and bubbly, both Kenrick and Lennon observed discrepancies in her behavior that hinted at underlying issues.

Signs of Inconsistency

Charlie Webster shares his initial reaction upon learning about Amanda's secrets:

“When I first found out about it, I was about 50% surprised... some of it makes sense now” (08:18).

Kenrick discusses Amanda’s consistent portrayal of illness:

“She was always very energized and very, very bubbly and very outgoing... didn’t see the pain that folks with cancer would go through” (09:00).

Lennon reflects on Amanda’s ability to maintain a vibrant exterior:

“A person recognizes their accolades exceeding their actual effort... the little bit of embellishments... tough because there were so many of us working hard” (16:16).

Potential Motivations Behind Amanda’s Actions

Nancy probes into possible reasons why Amanda might have fabricated her illness early on.

Charlie Webster speculates on Amanda’s possible financial motivations:

“She could make some money out of this... I don't know that for a fact” (11:43).

He further elaborates on Amanda’s departure from her RA position:

“She resigned and didn’t give us a reason... she left and got reimbursed for the amount” (18:16).

Kenrick suggests strategic withdrawal to exploit financial benefits:

“If she withdrew before the cutoff, she would have gotten all those funds... she clearly, if that” (21:13).

Personal Reflections and Emotional Impact

The conversation turns personal as both Kenrick and Lennon share their emotional responses to discovering Amanda’s deceit.

Charlie Webster expresses his confusion and disappointment:

“Why would you fake it? There are legitimate ways to get money... I don’t get it” (36:15).

Kenrick hopes Amanda’s actions don’t deter genuine philanthropic efforts:

“I hope that this doesn't deter others from giving to those who really need it” (37:04).

Reconstructing Amanda’s Personal Life

Nancy uncovers more about Amanda’s personal associations during her university years.

Kenrick recounts Amanda’s interactions with Alita’s children, initially presented as Amanda’s cousins:

“She would have two young ladies... but those weren’t her little cousins” (33:37).

This revelation connects Amanda's personal life to potential sources of fabricated support.

Final Thoughts and Reflections

As the episode concludes, both Kenrick and Charlie offer poignant reflections on Amanda’s legacy and the broader implications of her actions.

Charlie Webster poses a fundamental question:

“Why would you do this? Why fake it?” (36:15).

Kenrick emphasizes the importance of accountability and the hope that Amanda seeks redemption:

“I hope her faith's real... to navigate the impact of that reality” (37:04).

Conclusion

This bonus episode of Scamanda meticulously dissects Amanda Riley’s early years, presenting a compelling narrative that questions the authenticity of her purported illness during her college tenure. Through candid discussions with those who knew her best, the hosts shed light on the complex interplay between Amanda’s public persona and her hidden motives, inviting listeners to contemplate the broader ramifications of deceit and the pursuit of sympathy for personal gain.

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Notable Quotes:

• Charlie Webster (08:18): “When I first found out about it, I was about 50% surprised... some of it makes sense now.”
• Kenrick (09:00): “She was always very energized and very, very bubbly and very outgoing... didn’t see the pain that folks with cancer would go through.”
• Charlie Webster (36:15): “Why would you do this? Why fake it?”
• Kenrick (37:04): “I hope that this doesn't deter others from giving to those who really need it.”

Timestamps: Quotes have been assigned approximate timestamps based on the transcript for reference.

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Disclaimer: This summary is based on the provided transcript excerpts and aims to encapsulate the key discussions and insights shared in the bonus episode of Scamanda. For a comprehensive understanding, listening to the full episode is recommended.

Transcript

[Charlie Webster]

Yeah, sure thing. Hey, you sold that car yet?

[Kenrick]

Yeah, sold it to Carvana.

[Lennon]

Oh, I thought you were selling to that guy.

[Kenrick]

The guy who wanted to pay me in foreign currency. No interest over 36 months. Yeah, no. Carvana gave me an offer in minutes, picked it up and paid me on the spot. It was so convenient.

[Charlie Webster]

Just like that?

[Kenrick]

Yeah. No hassle? None.

[Charlie Webster]

That is super convenient.

[Lennon]

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[Ryan Reynolds]

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[Lennon]

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[Nancy Moscatello]

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[Kenrick]

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[Nancy Moscatello]

Hey, Scamander fans. Charlie here. I've got something big you won't want to miss. If you loved the podc, then mark your calendars because here comes Scamander. The docuseries starting tonight at 9:00pm 8 Central Time on ABC and then also streaming on Hulu. Watch for yourselves as every step plays out and see firsthand how Amanda Riley's world spirals down and out of control. The lies, the betrayals, the investigation, the police and some of the people closest to Amanda Riley share their stunning and emotional stories tonight at 9:00pm 8 Central on ABC. This amazing new series will be taking an even deeper dive into the notorious con artist. And I promise you, you will be on the edge of your seat with jaw dropping twists, turns and shocking revelations. Trust me, you won't be able to look away. So make sure to watch the shocking and incredible new docuseries on ABC and Hulu. If you love the podcast, you are going to love this. Grab your popcorn, set that reminder and tune in starting tonight, January 30th, to what will sure be pure primetime drama. Believe me, you don't want to be the only one not talking about this show. Scamander on ABC and streaming on Hulu. And it all starts tonight, January 30th at 9pm 8 Central. Watch this, people. It's too good. You ready for the ride?

[Nancy]

Let's go.

[Nancy Moscatello]

Go.

[Nancy]

Hi, Scamander listeners, it's Charlie again and I'm joined by Nancy in the studio. We have been contacted by so many different people and two people that we wanted to get on the line to speak to us, to tell a bit more is Kenrick and Lennon. Kenrick was a supervisor of the resident advisors at the San Jose State University. And it was around 2006, 2007, which is when Amanda was at the university and she was a resident advisor. As somebody that's English, I've had to learn what resident advisor is. And Lennon was a resident advisor with Amanda. So, Kenrick, you were the supervisor that looked after the resident advisors. Can you. Well, welcome along and thank you so much. Can you describe to us a little bit about that role?

[Charlie Webster]

Sure. Well, my role was the assistant director of the department. And with that came a bunch of different tasks. I actually supervised her supervisor. But the interesting thing about Amanda, she was very involved in our program. So she worked for me in my office as a student assistant. She also worked as an RA for a couple of years, and then she later became a graduate assistant, which was a level of supervisor amongst the staff members. So she did that for about a semester. And in my role, I. I hired and trained all of the staff. I did staff conduct and a variety of different things throughout the department.

[Nancy]

So you trained Amanda? Yes, and she was around 19 and 20. 19. 20 at this time, I would say.

[Charlie Webster]

So she was already an RA when I had arrived in 2006. I think I might have gotten her for the last year that she was an RA when I came in in August of 2006.

[Nancy]

And Lennon, you were a resident advisor with Amanda. What kind of things did you do?

[Kenrick]

So, yeah, I mean, in our role as resident advisors, or RAs for short, you know, it saves. Saves us time syllables. But in our.

[Nancy]

Isn't it. Because I had to learn what an RA was, Lennon. That's why.

[Kenrick]

Yeah, but, yeah, in our jobs, we, you know, we're students actively ourselves, so we would. We lived on campus. We lived in the residence halls or the dorms, depending on who you're talking to. And we had about, I would say about 80 or so students assigned to each of us. And on the floors that they lived, we would meet with them. If there were roommate issues, we would kind of do this thing where we hold what we call is our duty phone or on call phone overnight. So we would respond to crisis. We would obviously host events and activities to build community and engagement. So it's kind of like, you know, if you're familiar with other university settings, it's like the perpetual welcome week orientation or something like that. But we're doing it year round. We're actively working within our communities, and so we end up having, like, a reasonably sized team to achieve that with our supervisors and everyone else.

[Charlie Webster]

Lennon, you totally just reminded me of something and these tidbits just keep popping up. I actually ended up living on her floor because I negotiated housing for a couple of years, and I lived on her floor, I think, for a year or two. And so I got to see her as an ra, so she was kind of like my ra, even though I was a professional staff member. But that's funny.

[Nancy]

Okay, so I really want to dig into this. So, yeah, I suppose the first thing I want to ask you is, when you found out what Amanda was doing, was either of you surprised?

[Charlie Webster]

When I first found out about it, I was about 50% surprised. And the other half of me was, you know, was like, ah, this all makes sense now. I'm really surprised at some of the things that I'm. I'm learning more and more as I. I hear the podcast.

[Nancy]

But you're not surprised that she's Done this.

[Charlie Webster]

I'm not surprised. Some of it makes sense. Yeah.

[Nancy]

Why?

[Charlie Webster]

As a student assistant with. I. I got to work with her closely, and I've had people, other people in my life who's gone through cancer treatment and have fought cancer. And some of the behavior, it just didn't line up like she was never wanting to talk about it, which is fine. That happens every. With. With some people. But it just didn't line up with how someone would look and how someone would feel. She was always very energized and very, very bubbly and very outgoing, which is a wonderful quality of her. I never saw the pain of what cancer folks would go through. Right. And so that immediately made me question some of the authenticity of what she was experiencing.

[Nancy]

Lennon, what did you think? What was Amanda like? Because, you know, I suppose you could argue with what you were just saying, Kenrick, that, well, people show. Things show their pain in different ways. Right?

[Kenrick]

Yeah. You know, and I think it's thinking back to the totality of the question of being surprised, and then also, you know, what it was like. I still work in higher education, and so I think I'm at a point where I don't know if I get too surprised about the behavior of people, unfortunately. But when I look at the cultivation of a skill set to do these things, I'm not surprised. And what I mean by that is, on one end, and this isn't a promotion for people to become ras, to become scam artists, but it's this idea of learning how to turn it on is something that is a skill set. I think we all do it. We all go through our lives, and some of us who are the most successful or become continually successful, our definitions of success is our ability to acknowledge how to turn it on, turn it off, recharge all these other things. In the case of the kind of work we were doing and how it maybe translated to Amanda is, when you live where you work, how do you turn it off? In the work we did, we probably get about an hour. Hour or two. So I look at that. It's like, literally, you get back in your room, and that's the only time you really get a chance to stop smiling or stop putting up the bold face. Once I discovered that it wasn't real, I kind of was like, wow, okay. This is something I'm not surprised by because I think there had always been an element of putting on the show.

[Nancy]

So, wait, wait, wait, wait, guys. Right? So this was back in 2006, kind of 2007 time. She started a blog in 2012 to remind everyone, which is when she said she was diagnosed with cancer, with Hodgkin's lymphoma. So hang on, we're talking about it as if. Well, she put on this good face. So did she say she had cancer then?

[Charlie Webster]

Yeah.

[Nancy]

What?

[Charlie Webster]

Well, she. She definitely had. I don't know this for fact. I'll say this. I think she started off very, very small and realized that maybe she could do this to get out of stuff like classes or work or what have you. And then she just saw that it was a success and started building on it. Right. And said, I could do this. I can make some money out of this, or something. I don't know that for a fact, but.

[Nancy]

So when you say I don't know for fat. But she was saying she wasn't very well, she was saying she was sick, right?

[Kenrick]

Yeah.

[Charlie Webster]

Oh, yes.

[Kenrick]

I remember her being sick and I remember that coming up, because when you're looking at your peers and there's 1400 residents in one building, right? Pretty big building. 1400 residents in one building and there's only 50 teen RAs, you know, we gotta work. And so anytime someone was excused, you felt it. She was sick and lethargic, I'll say, quite a bit when it came to the extra duties of what was asked.

[Nancy]

Of us, because one of the things we also found out through somebody who was a boyfriend of hers back around that time was that she was saying she had loopers. Does that ring any bells for either of you?

[Charlie Webster]

Absolutely.

[Kenrick]

Yeah.

[Nancy]

And I just want to pick up on, you know, you were saying, Ken, Rick, how she. She's always really smiley. Like in all the photos we've gone through from her blog post, and this is years and years and years, she is always really smiley. And one of the things that people said about her was she, you know, she's so charming and. And lovely. And I mean, I've met her and she was smiley and lovely even though she'd been just been sentenced. Can you describe a bit more of what she was like and what the interactions were like? Was she kind and a good person or how would you describe that?

[Charlie Webster]

Yeah. And this is the difference between what she's done versus how she appeared. Right. Because she was very much everything of a helper. She was. I mean, if you met her, you would immediately melt into her wanting her to be a good friend of yours. Right. I thought she was very bubbly, very personable. She. She actually was a very hard worker. So I don't want to take any of that away from her. She did, I think she did her job and she did it well. And, you know, her accolades prove that she was, it seemed to many of us that she was a good person and she was genuinely doing things to help people and was really caring about other folks.

[Kenrick]

I think like I shared earlier, it's 247 and we're around each other all the time and you can, you can be genuine. And I would totally agree with the standpoint of the hard work and the way she shows up, like her creativity when she's on. She can win. She would win. I think there are a number of things. I think her biggest strength in the work that we did was around programming and engagement, really showcasing obviously a great speaker, very energetic, super welcoming. And those are qualities that when you think about interviewing someone for a role like this, stand out in an interview. I think for some of the other things that, you know, a fellow RA would track and that we would feel, and we definitely felt it at the time was. But, yeah, but how many of your students do you actually know? Like you've got 80 something residents. Do they think you're a resource or do they engage with you outside of the space? So I think that we were seeing things and tracking things in a light where it was, I think we felt it once again as peers. But I think from a showing up standpoint, like even myself and at the time, even being in that window, friends with Amanda, I think if it was time to do something, you wanted her to be on your team because, you know, she wanted to win. So it's like. And so she was going to show up and put on as best she could. So like there's so much productivity there from that lens and engagement. And so I totally see like Kenrik was sharing that sort of energy of oh yeah, she is someone you upon meeting are like, oh, they're someone I can almost look up to.

[Charlie Webster]

Yeah, but, but London, wouldn't you agree that some of that was in the manipulation of all of this is that I feel like she showed up like an A plus student to the people who matter, like supervisors, maybe teachers, people who were making decisions, who had the power to make some of that. So she wanted those people to know that she's, she's fantastic and she's great and she can do all this stuff and she looks good in front of them so that later possibly they could be sympathetic to her.

[Nancy]

Cause like you in a way, Kenric, because you hired her right as a, you hired her as a grad assistant so she actually worked for you. So you must have seen those qualities in her.

[Charlie Webster]

Absolutely, absolutely. Like I said, some of them just did not. It didn't match up. It didn't match up.

[Nancy]

Can you tell us about this residency program that Amanda was part of? A sought after residency program where students got a $3,000 pay plus room and board. But then Amanda mysteriously left after about six weeks, which is unusual.

[Charlie Webster]

That's actually the graduate level position that she was in place, employed. And she. We hire both graduate students and undergrad for the RA position. But there's a level of assistant residents, life or residence. Life coordinators are professional folks that have gone through grad school and all that stuff. And then we have assistant resident life coordinators that might do a, a bunch of supervising and some other tasks. But she entered into that role for, I want to say, like maybe six to eight weeks or something like that. And we had gone through the process of getting her hired because we had to make sure that she was a grad student. That was the number one priority. And, and to us, she was a great candidate because she had already known our, our department, had known our program, and she could easily transition into the role having all of those skills that we didn't have to necessarily retrain her on. And so it was really interesting. After six or eight weeks, she was gone. She was like, she resigned and she didn't give us a reason. She just was done. And that role did pay for. We paid tuition, we paid room and board, and we also gave, I want to say, about a $3,000 stipend a month to all of our grad students. Picture this. You're halfway through a DIY car fix, tools scattered everywhere, and boom. You realise you're missing a part. It's okay because, you know, whatever it is, it's on ebay. They've got everything. Brakes, headlights, cold air intakes, whatever you need. And it's guaranteed to fit. Which means no more crossing your fingers and hoping you've ordered the right thing. All the parts you need at prices you'll love. Guaranteed to fit every time.

[Kenrick]

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[Charlie Webster]

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[Kenrick]

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[Nancy]

Yeah, that's a lot.

[Charlie Webster]

Yeah.

[Nancy]

Do you mind if I'm just going to bring Nancy in? I got Nancy in the studio with us and I'd love to bring Nancy in at this point. Nancy, do you think there was a particular reason why it was around that six to eight weeks time frame?

[Nancy Moscatello]

Yeah, I mean for me I noticed, you know, she had racked up a lot of education debt when we were looking at the bankruptcy and I couldn't figure out how that worked. And I do know like once you come around about the six week mark, you can withdraw and usually get a reimbursement of the funds for your tuition. There's like a cutoff point and then if you, if you get out before you get reimbursed. So I always thought that was the situation.

[Nancy]

What do you think about that, Ken? Rick, you're nodding your head.

[Charlie Webster]

I think that is brilliant to be honest with you. I mean aside from having the debt. But I to, to have figured out that as a way to make some money. I'm not suggesting that people do that because clearly this is one of the outcomes. It's like. But she, it's crazy that if that's what she did, she got room and board for a period of time. She got the monthly stipend and then she got us to pay for her tuition, which, you know, could be upwards of $10,000. And then after a while, she just left and got reimbursed for the amount because we. After we leave the. After we transfer the money, we have nothing else to do with it. It just. It leaves our hands and it now goes into the student's account. And so she clearly, if that. And I. I never ever thought about that, but it would have meant that she would have gotten all of those funds as she withdrew from those classes.

[Nancy]

Kenrik, when you posted on Facebook about the podcast Scamander and about knowing Amanda, you said something wasn't right. And loads of people commented on that and, and felt the same. What was not right from either of you, do you think? Was there any obvious lies or things at the time or any complaints made or anything that made people question her?

[Charlie Webster]

I think, you know, we all kind of secretly had these feelings, but never outright said it to one another, but it was, you know, it's stuff that we each observed. You know, it might be that I'm feeling she called out sick, but yet she's going to a party or you see her all dressed up to go, to go out on a date or something, right? And so some of those things just didn't make any sense. And that it. It makes. It raises eyebrows. And I almost wish that we were brave enough to say something to one another back in those days.

[Kenrick]

I think something Kenrick alluded to earlier is this idea of looking good for those that matter. I think there were times where a person recognizes their accolades exceeding their actual effort, and they don't thrive in that energy. I would say is. Or at least I would say is a good, reasonable person would not choose to thrive in that energy. If I gave credit to Kenrick right now for something he know he didn't do, he would probably say, thank you so much. But actually, a few other people contributed to that success. And one of the things that I think stood out was there were often more accolades than were actually achieved that Amanda would speak to. And those of us in the know were like, you didn't do that. Like, you know, and I think that that was probably the grand struggle, right? It was just kind of like this idea of that's not true. So I think, like just those little bit of embellishments, it was tough because there was, I think at the time, and I'll say this is at the time, there were so many of us working so hard and we were collectively being successful to have one person make it seem like they were only successful is the part that kind of stuck with people was like this idea that you were somehow the reason everything took place. And this is, I would say, a rough week. I had another friend that I lost to cancer this week who had had a long battle. I can think of a 12 year battle she's had with cancer. And it was away, then came back and I can remember her cutting her hair and I can remember all these moments, but in seeing her journey and thinking to myself, there's a real piece of this and, and you only get so much from a picture. You only get so much from a moment. But I think that part that didn't sit well was this idea of it just felt a little done up. And I can't. And it's tough now because of the timeline, like I think, as well as a foundation of this was, you know, years ago, 10, 15 years ago. So I think it's. It's not like we use social media the same way as we used to. So everything seemed authentic. And I can remember giving outreach when I saw the post. But then there's just a point where you start to be like, I know what my direct friends and family who've gone through this can't do. And you seem to be able to do everything under the sun, whether that be have children or, you know, different things. I'm like, I just know everybody who can't do a number of things and are hyper limited in how they can interact with life who are going through these battles. And it really did seem like a miracle. And that's where you're like, that's almost too good to be true. But you don't want to be a skeptic about wellness, you know, and that's, that's the hard part.

[Charlie Webster]

Who wants to be that person that says you don't have cancer?

[Kenrick]

Yeah.

[Nancy]

Can you just prove to me your medical records, please? And I think that's one of the things we, you know, we want to raise awareness and stop people doing this, but also make sure we don't become. We don't push out the skepticism where, you know, oh, question people, because not for a second are we saying that because it's really important that we don't. And Lennon, thanks for sharing about that because, you know, really sorry about, about the loss of your friend. And I think that's what, you know, cancer in some way to. Touches all of us in, in some way we all have a story, whether it's ourselves or our family. And I know that Something very upsetting and close to Nancy's heart. Because you know, Nancy, you lost your sister.

[Charlie Webster]

Yeah, absolutely. Like I think I had said earlier that I'm familiar with folks. I. I've had a couple of folks in my life who have had struggles with breast cancer and a couple of folks who have lost their lives because of it. And for me, having experienced their hardships and their day to day trials around that, it always seemed off. There's no way that someone who claimed what she had would have that much energy to be able to do certain things. The level of energy did not match up with someone who was going through what she was going through. And certainly people handle stuff in different ways. But my experience did not yield what it was supposed to. Yeah, sure thing. Hey, you sold that car yet?

[Kenrick]

Yeah, sold it to Carvana.

[Lennon]

Oh, I thought you were selling to that guy.

[Kenrick]

The guy who wanted to pay me in foreign currency, no interest over 36 months. Yeah, no. Carvana gave me an offer in minutes, picked it up and paid me on the spot. It was so convenient.

[Charlie Webster]

Just like that.

[Kenrick]

Yeah. No hassle? None.

[Charlie Webster]

That is super convenient.

[Lennon]

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[Ryan Reynolds]

Recently I asked Mint Mobile's legal team if big wireless companies are allowed to raise prices due to inflation. They said yes. And then when I asked if raising prices technically violates those onerous to your contracts, they said what the are you talking about? You insane Hollywood. So to recap, we're cutting the price of mint unlimited from $30 a month to just $15 a month. Give it a try@mint mobile.com switch.

[Lennon]

$45 upfront payment equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three month plan only taxes and fees, extra Speed slower above 40GB.

[Nancy Moscatello]

Details.

[Freddie Wong]

Hi, this is Freddie Wong from Dungeons and Daddies and this episode is sponsored by Rocket Money Blast Houston, we have a savings. That's right. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that's empowers you to save more, spend less, and take control of your financial life. Basically, you can see all of your checking, savings, credit cards and investments in one convenient place. You can understand your spending trends, and most importantly, you can categorize those expenses and set up a custom budget by identifying top spending categories. Listen, you want to track bank statements, it's very difficult. Use Rocket Money to help keep track of all your finances. Rocket money is over 5 million happy members and it's saved its users over one day billion across all of the app's premium features. Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Get Rocket money [e-mail] allinone that's rocketmoney.com allinone.

[Nancy]

I just want to ask you both a question. I wonder, do you, did you know anything about her before you met her? As in, did you know anything about her past, where she came from, what kind of background she is? I just think of, like, when I went to university, you know, people, I got to know people and, you know, I told them a bit about where I was from and I don't know my family and did they, did she ever, do you know anything more about her from that perspective?

[Charlie Webster]

No, no, no, I, I, I really didn't. I, I don't know if she was trying to be very mindful of how much she shared because she didn't want to get caught when I would ask her questions about what she was going through. So, like, I was inquisitive, wanting to learn more and also wanting to see how I can possibly support her. She was a little evasive and wouldn't get into much, much depth about what she, which was at the time, I thought, okay, maybe it's, it's her business and, and I shouldn't be asking that, whatever. But she never outright said, no, I don't want to talk about that. She just kind of beat around the bush and, and just made up stuff about it. Right. Oh. Or hardly even talked about it.

[Kenrick]

When I think about how most of the team's conversations would go or my conversations with her directly if we were like, you know, because at night we'd be on duty together, so we'd sit at a desk for three hours, you know, and so that'd be a mix of class and life and what we're doing this weekend or all these other things. So we would get, you know, probably 10 times out of the semester, so probably 20ish times a year, I probably would get a solid three hours with her. That wasn't even like any other social time. But more times than not, it was. It was mostly school, current school, like, you know, university related. I always. I did know her faith was big to her. I was a religious studies major, so. So that was a component that she was speaking to at least around that time was this idea of at least wanting to get into church. I don't know if she was involved in a church. I'm trying to think of, like, we had some, like, student Christian clubs, and I couldn't recall if she joined any of them. And then. No, a lot of her other time and energy at the time, which I remember her. Her cousins coming by, but I think I've now discovered that those weren't her little cousins. The. The girls that would come over, but they would come.

[Nancy]

Hang on, hang on. Sorry, Lennon, I'm just gonna pick you up on that. Who.

[Ryan Reynolds]

She?

[Kenrick]

Yeah, she would have two. Two young ladies, or there would be one young girl and maybe like one a little older that would come over periodically. And at the time it was presented me as cousins, but I felt like, yeah, she would have people over. And then the guy she was dating at the time, not Corey, that was a big part, because sporting events, He. She. The two of them and I would go to sporting events together as well. So, like, I felt like the foundation of her home life outside of school was mostly at the time, her current boyfriend. The family stuff with. With the girls and everything.

[Nancy]

So I'll tell you who those two girls were. Yeah, they were elitist children. So Elita was Corey's wife at the time, and Amanda was going to her house and was helping those two kids and became a bit of a friend to them because Jamie had at the time cancer, which was Alita's eldest daughter, and then Jessa, who later became Amanda's bonus daughter, stepdaughter, as you call her bonus daughter. So those two kids she said were her cousins were actually Alita's children, Jessa and Jamie.

[Kenrick]

And that's the reframing, right? Like, at the time, I didn't even, like, you know, I wouldn't even have. No one questions that, like, you know, like, you know, someone brings their family over kind of thing, and. And everything. But, yeah, no, I mean, I think it's. It has been interesting to see some of the overlap with these things years later and. And not knowing. It's like. I don't think anyone could have really sat there, at least until Nancy started doing some research, but I don't know if anyone could have sat there and just said, let's connect all these dots and piece these things together. But I definitely feel like. I think in small bites, people test the waters and see what they can get away with. And I think just over time, we saw these small bites turn from, hey, I can't make it today because I'm not feeling well. I can't do this because I'm sick, to, oh, how much more can I get? Yeah.

[Nancy]

Thank you so much, Kenrick and Lennon. We really appreciate you sharing your story with us and for coming on and giving us more insight. And clearly that this was going on far longer than before her blog diagnosis. And we did find out before that in 2010. But, you know, this era that we're talking about right now is around the kind of 2006, 2007 years. So thank you, both of you. Any final words? What would you say to Amanda if you saw her now?

[Charlie Webster]

For me, I would just say why? And I think that's the biggest question that lots of folks are having about all of this, is why? Why would you do this? Like, why fake it? Why? There's lots of people going through this talk about karma in itself, that. God forbid that that comes back to you, right? Why would. I mean, if money is the answer, that's. That's not the answer. There's lots of legitimate ways to get money, and obviously you know that now because you got caught. It's just ridiculous that this would be one of the ways that you would live your life and scheming around and you're making people trust you and just ultimately lying to everyone. You know, I don't get it, Lennon.

[Kenrick]

It's. It's a mixed bag, but I think. I think it's on. On the. On the most mindful and thoughtful end. I would. I would hope, or I would probably tell her along the lines of, I hope that this doesn't deter others from giving to those who really need it. I would hope that she considers and weighs the weight of every dollar that in the last 10 to 15 years, that could have potentially actually helped save a life. Actually help get a little more research, get a bit more medication that could have gone to someone in real need. And ultimately, I hope her faith's real, because I hope that she can find some way to find a way to. I don't want to say cope, but to navigate the impact of that reality. Because if I. I think I would imagine if a person took on the weight of that impact of what's has occurred, it'd be very difficult to navigate. And so whether that's counseling, faith, whatever is out there, I hope that there are some real space is for her to get help and to become a better person because I don't expect flawless out of anyone. I got my flaws, but the intention behind this, the effort it took to hold this up, I feel like it's just so intense that I'm hopeful to the listeners and to the families and those out there who still have a heart to give, feel like they'll still be encouraged to find a real cause to give to.

[Nancy]

Thank you. I think that's a great message to end on. Thank you both of you, Kenrick and Len, and thanks for joining us. Nancy, thanks again for coming in the studio and thanks everybody for listening. We really appreciate it. I hope you enjoyed this bonus episode and it gives you, well, it gave us all a lot more insight into Amanda. Don't forget to give us a rate and review. And if your friends haven't heard about Scamander, they should have. Thanks again. Goodbye. Bye for now.

[Nancy Moscatello]

Scamander is hosted and produced by me.

[Nancy]

Charlie Webster and Produced by Jackson McLennan. Edit and theme music by Nico Polella Assistant producer, Casey Hertz Assistant Editor, Seema Graywall Additional production support from Stephen Sletten, Will Hagel and Nicole Urban. Executive produced by me, Charlie Webster and Nancy Moscatello. Scamander is a Lionsgate Sound production engineered by Pilgrim Media Group.

[Freddie Wong]

Hi, this is Freddie Wong from Dungeons and Daddies and this episode is sponsored by Rocket Money Blast Houston. We have a savings. That's right. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that is empowers you to save more, spend less and take control of your financial life. Basically, you can see all of your checking, savings, credit cards and investments in one convenient place. You can understand your spending trends and most importantly, you can categorize those expenses and set up a custom budget by identifying top spending categories. Listen, you want to track bank statements? It's very difficult. Use Rocket Money to help keep track of all your finances. Rocket money is over 5 million happy members and it saved its users over one day billion dollars across all of the app's premium features. Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Get Rocket money [e-mail] allinone that's rocketmoney.com.

[Nancy Moscatello]

Allinone everyone's entitled to their own opinion. But some opinions are more useful than others. And we all want the good ones. The ones that shake things up, spark debates and change minds. Financial Times readers know that their opinions are reliable because they're shaped by trusted journalism. Robust opinions, confident decisions. Source FT to subscribe, go to FT.com.

[Nancy]

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[Kenrick]

Terms apply.

[Nancy]

See Walmart+ terms and conditions.

[Kenrick]

Acast powers the World's best Podcasts Here's a show that we recommend.

[Charlie Webster]

Hey folks.

[Kenrick]

It'S Marc Maron from wtf. I've been talking to all kinds of famous people in garage since 2009, including a sitting president. You know, I don't imagine you were flying in here on the chopper thinking like, you know, I am nervous about Mark. No, I wasn't. Okay, well that's good. That would be a problem. It would be a problem if the president was feeling stressed about coming to my garage. Coming to your garage. And now there's even more WTF when you subscribe to the full Marin to get weekly bonus content and all WTF episodes ad free. Listen to WTF wherever you get podcasts and subscribe to the full [e-mail] WTF Acast helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.