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- [00:03]
Charlie Webster
Hey Scamander fans. Charlie here. I've got something big you won't want to miss. If you love the podcast, then you need to watch the docu series Thursday nights at 9pm 8 Central Time on ABC and also streaming on Hulu. Watch for yourself as every step plays out and see firsthand how Amanda Riley's world spirit spirals down and out of control. The lies, the betrayals, the investigation, the police and some of the people closest to Amanda Riley share their stunning and emotional stories. Thursday nights at 9pm 8 Central on ABC and streaming on Hulu. This amazing new series will be taking an even deeper dive into the notorious con artist. And I promise you, you will be on the edge of your seat with jaw dropping twists turn and shocking revelations. Trust me, you won't be able to look away. So make sure to watch the Shocking an incredible new docu series on ABC and Hulu. If you love the podcast, you are just going to love this. Grab your popcorn, set that reminder and tune in Thursday nights to what will sure be pure primetime drama.
- [01:25]
Amanda Riley
Believe me, you don't want to be.
- [01:28]
Charlie Webster
The only one not talking about this show. Amanda on ABC and streaming on Hulu Thursday nights at 9pm 8 Central.
- [01:54]
Amanda Riley
Welcome to this special episode of Scamander. It's me, Charlie Webster. I think you know me by now. I'm your host. And now, whether you've been with us from the start or you're just tuning in after watching the docuseries on ABC and Hulu, I'm really glad that you're here. I can't wait to dig into things. The show really would not be the success it is without you. I'm so grateful to all of you, you devoted fans. So I'm doing what you've all begged me to do for so long, and I'm so grateful I've got the opportunity to do it. I'm opening up the mailbox, which is huge, and answering all your burning questions. I really hope we can have a great intimate conversation. So before we jump in, of course I want to remind you that the Scamander docu series is now streaming on Hulu. So if you missed an episode or you want to binge it, which I know a lot of you did want to binge the TV show and the podcast. It's ready, you've got it, and it's waiting for you. Okay, grab whatever you need, a drink, a snack, and let's settle in. As you probably know by now, for me it's a cup of tea. It's always a Cup of tea. I know it's super stereotypical and it's English, but it's true. So let's dig in. All right. It will come as no surprise that the most common question I always get is, how did Amanda pull this off for so long? It's the one that kind of baffles all our minds. And listen, when we first started unraveling Amanda's story, I was really just as shocked as you were. I sat there with all these blog posts that Nancy had handed over to me, and I was like, I can't. The conflict in my head of whether this was real or not, because I could see pictures of Amanda with tubes actually in. Lying in hospital beds, in her arms, in wheelchair, holding a balloon with a smiley sunflower face. Like, how could this be fake? They weren't fake pictures. They weren't AI. They weren't photoshopped. They were real pictures. And then if you look at all the writing with her blog, it was so detailed. And, well, you know what I do for a living? I tell stories. I'm a journalist. I know what a good storyteller is. And Amanda's a good storyteller. But she was also really explicit in her blog. She Talked about, like, PD1 trial, Keytruda, which is immunotherapy drug. And I hadn't even heard of Keytruda before I started reading Amanda's blogs. And she talked about CT scans. She used language that was so specific to illness, to cancer. I even saw a doctor's appointment, which had confirmation of blood transfusions, a doctor's letter, medical bills. How can this be fake? Then there was testimony. I started to speak to people. People are saying to me, no, no, Amanda fainted. I saw her. I saw her being taken off in an ambulance. This was somebody who was not just lying, but actually acting out as if she actually had. And Amanda's also a great speaker. She spoke on stage in church. She spoke in cancer. She's captivating. And she was representing hope and trust in her community. She's a young mother of two with cancer. Like, who questions that? Because even when she did got caught, people still believed her. And it was really interesting because I'm like, well, who's gonna be the person that says that this woman doesn't have cancer? And that's when, you know, we now know that Lisa was the anonymous tip to Nancy. And, like, how could you be that person that got this wrong? And when I was looking through everything, to me, the evidence pointed to somebody that did have cancer. Not that was Faking it. That's how subtle everything was. So to kind of list off how Amanda did it, it was emotional exploitation, using sympathy and compassion, our natural instinct to help and protect people. And it's really difficult for anyone to doubt that, because to doubt that, you'd feel really guilty. Right. I think also, like, don't underestimate the power of repetition and public performance because there was constant consistency in her lies. There's so much to get through. I'm just flicking through all these questions. So let's get straight into things with the first question. Here we go. So, veilofecho779, how is it possible that no one caught on? I'm no medical professional, but even the at home clinical trial alone seems like it should have been enough to set off some alarm bells. Like, did none of her readers happen to be doctors, nurses, or health professionals? Or were they but just too scared to call her out? It seems hard to believe. You know, what I would say to that is like, hindsight is 20 20. Because when I'm making, you know, a story like this, when I was making Scamander, I'm like, I started to gather all the information and you become this person that knows everything. But then at the same time, I've got to make sure that I, like, look at things like, well, was it hard to believe that people didn't know? Or was Amanda so subtle and so clever in her lies and manipulation that you wouldn't know? And there actually was somebody that was in Amanda's life who is a nurse and he actually features in the docu series on tv. He's not in the podcast because when I approached him at the podcast, him and his family were just so traumatized. They just felt like they couldn't get their heads around it. And then when they listened to the podcast, they realized the extent of everything that happened and then reached out to me and started to share their story, post, podcast, which sometimes happens when you put these stories. And he didn't read the blog because why would he. Because Amanda was in his life. So for him, he didn't need to read the blog because he saw Amanda. He saw her at church. They saw each other personally, and he was just being there as a friend. He didn't read the blog. And I didn't know that you couldn't give keytruda at home. Like, do you like, I'm not a medical professional. So I had to research that and then you can actually give some immunotherapy at home. So then I was like, okay, Is there a possibility that this is a new trial? Like, we've got it wrong. So it's like being really detailed and making sure. And I questioned, questioned, questioned that over again. And to be honest, at first glance, I don't think you'd question anything. This is someone people knew, and they saw it with their own eyes. So why would you question it from a blog post? Because they saw Amanda with a shaved head. They saw Amanda upset, cry, ill, sick, in tears, talk about her situation. It was acted out perfectly. Next question. This is Lark Dunn, 86. I still cannot wrap my head around how Amanda was able to waltz into hospitals so frequently and gain access to hospital beds, IVs, and vials of chemo medicine most people can barely get out of the waiting room. It's true. So how was she able to get her hands on those things if there was nothing wrong with her? People don't get IVs if they're healthy. And isn't it illegal to steal medicine that is not yours? Yeah, absolutely right. You make a really great point, Lark Dunn, 86. According to Amanda, there were times where those hospital visits were real. They just weren't for cancer. There was other things wrong with her. She said she's got things wrong with her lungs. There was a back problem. So that's, according to Amanda, that she was going into hospitals for other reasons that were true. You know, you said about people don't get IVs if they're healthy. No, but you can get an IV if you go into an emergency room and you're exhibiting symptoms, which I think aren't really hard to fake. Right. You can be like, oh, and kind of bend over. And also, stealing medicine is, isn't illegal. Yeah. But again, probably really hard to prove. And I just want to say, in terms of the medical equipment, that it's actually really easy, sadly, or maybe not sadly, because maybe it's important. You can buy medical equipment online, but you can buy medical equipment online. You can buy oxygen tanks, you can buy tubes, you can buy all sorts of things, masks. And so that's quite easy to buy online. Have it delivered on your home so you can set it up to make it look like you're. You're ill. So it's really intricate. I don't think it's a case of just like her waltzing in and being like, oh, can I have a bit of chemo and steal this vial to take some photos? I think it was far more intricate than that. Moving on to the next question, Rueshiro. I have to Say, I feel like you've been, oh, way too easy on Amanda. Why does it seem like you're always trying to stay neutral on the situation? I love this question. Is it not sort of undeniable that she's a cool person? Well, you know what? I love your honesty, and thank you for asking me that. And I like challenging questions because I constantly. Honestly, you have no idea how much I constantly check myself. So I am glad you asked this, because I spent a lot of time mulling this over. It was really important, firstly, for me to stay neutral, because that's what I'm supposed to do as a journalist. We have, like, a thing about ethics and morals, and it's not for me to go in there and judge and be like, hey, everyone, I'm gonna tell you about this horrible person. And I also don't think you'd have liked that, because isn't it for you to decide what you think? And I also. I'll be really blunt. I honestly don't think it would have been anywhere near as interesting in. You probably wouldn't even know about this show or be asking me that question, because if I said that, it would have been over in, like, 30 minutes. And, you know, I do remember some people being like, oh, you could have told this story in, like, two episodes. No, you couldn't, because you would never have understood how this played out. And the only way you can really understand the depth of someone is show the patterns of behavior and how this happens. And I feel like it was really important for me to sit there and get the facts right. I know it sounds boring, but facts are really important because what if. What if Amanda was telling the truth and everybody else had got this wrong or Nancy got this wrong, or I got this wrong? What if there was, like, an underlying reason that doesn't justify, but it was important to tell? What about if there was, like, somebody else pulling the strings behind the scenes? You've got to kind of ask all these questions, because if I make assumptions, what if I get it wrong? And honestly, I spend months and months and months trying to make sure that I know all the facts and in every part of it. Not just about, like, oh, Amanda faking cancer, but, like, what was she doing here? What was she doing there? Did she lie about that? Did she take advantage of that person? What did Corey do? What was going on with the family? Because it's really important to understand those dynamics. And to be honest, I think Amanda's own behavior speaks for itself. So deception is really complicated. And I think Understanding why people lie and manipulate is just as important as exposing what they did. I think it just shows how fascinating and quite frankly, disturbing it is. But I really, really do appreciate your question, and it's something that I will take on board. But I think it's up to you, not to me to tell you what to think. So I'm just scrolling to the next question. I've got them all listed here. So the next one is V. Astro. Clearly, money was a huge motivator in keeping up this act for so long. But in the end, if Amanda scammed people out of X amount of dollars, it was around $105,000. But we have actually found that there's more because the cash that was given didn't count in the actual case because it was about wire fraud. What did they do with it? Good question. Obviously, they wouldn't have been able to flaunt it online without raising suspicion. So where did all the money go? Thanks for that question. Firstly, I strongly don't believe that money was a motivating factor. I feel like the motivating factor, and I would say I'm 99% sure about this, was attention, validation and this addiction of being adored and being somebody and having purpose. And I think the money was secondary to Amanda. I do know, according to Amanda and some other testimony, that some of the money went on the custody battle between Corey and his ex wife Alita for their daughter Jessa. And if you think about it like roughly $105,000 in wire fraud in terms of that was given to her website and say there was like maybe another $60,000, which I think is what Nancy believes on top of that and around cash and in kind services, and then maybe There was another 60 on top of that. It's a lot of money, right? If somebody gave me a load of cash like that in this room right now where I'm recording, I'd be like, thank you so much. That's a huge amount of money. Ah. But if you think about it over time, like, Amanda started the blog in 2012 and she didn't get sentenced until 2022. And this went over a long period of time. And Nancy didn't even start looking at her blog until 2015. And it carried on and it carried on after that. So if you spread that out over time, it's actually probably less than the average yearly wage. So it's actually not a huge amount of money. If it had been millions, and I think there would have been suspicion because, you know, there wasn't anything where it was overtly materialistic. So I actually don't think money played a huge part in it. And the evidence shows that, too, because there wasn't millions. And if it had been money, then maybe there would have been, like, a more overt push for money. And I know that a part of Amanda's story of faking cancer and the reason actually why she got prosecuted and convicted in the first place, was because of money, but it wasn't the predominant thing of the case. It was the only way that the law could get her for lying about cancer. Now, one thing I know many of you are curious about is how we brought Amanda's story to life in both the podcast and the docuseries. And it's not something I've talked much about, actually. So with the podcast, the challenge was, how do I bring the visuals to life? Because this isn't just a blog post. This is blog posts with pictures. So I tried to describe some of the pictures, remind people that there's pictures going alongside this, remind people that people saw Amanda in hospital. They're the visual aspects which are harder to bring to life in a podcast. Right. But then if you switch it the other way around, when we started making the TV show, it's like, oh, amazing. I can bring those visuals to life, but I still want to get the intricacies of the manipulation of how this was done from the podcast. And so hopefully they just work together. And, you know, sometimes I just couldn't believe really what we uncovered. And I kind of do that laugh, not because it's funny, but just because sometimes it's really hard to get your head around things. And what I need to do is try and help you all get your head around it. So let me move on to some questions. Phantom sky, while you were putting together the podcast and Nancy was investigating, how did Amanda continue on without it tipping her off? Were there any close calls or moments during the process when you were particularly scared that Amanda would find out? That's a really good question, because Amanda already knew. So in 2015, when Lisa sent in this anonymous tip to Nancy, Nancy started to look through the blog posts and started to investigate, and she found discrepancies, and she spoke to Lisa and listened to Lisa. Then Nancy started to actually speak to people. And then what happened with some of these people is they then sent it to Amanda. So Amanda found out very quickly about Nancy almost immediately. So it's interesting that you said, were there any close calls? And I'm glad you asked that question, because maybe I didn't get that across, that actually, Amanda did know about this, and she did know that Nancy was looking into her. And then when I came in, I started to look at this, and Amanda didn't know about what I was thinking of doing. And at the time, I was like, okay, is this a podcast? Is this a documentary? What even is this? And then when I went to Amanda's sentencing, I'd read everything that Nancy had done, and I'd read all of Amanda's blogs, and I'd spoken to a few different people that Nancy hadn't spoken to, and just kind of tried to bring my own perspective and keep it in my own head and at my own more neutral point of view. And then at the sentencing, I did actually approach Amanda afterwards. And you'll see it in episode four of the TV docu series, and it's in the very end of the podcast as well. And I told Amanda that I was looking to make a story about what had happened. And I introduced myself, and I gave Amanda my contact details, and I said, I'm not here to judge you. I'm not going after you, but I'm looking to tell this story. And so Amanda knew, and that was really important for me. It's not about, like, you know, I know you might all think, oh, maybe I'm being too soft, but. And we did have that question about me being too neutral, but how could I bring you Amanda's perspective or the Amanda's why or how, or was she. Sorry, is she a complete monster? Or is she a very complicated person? So all these things that it was important for me to tell Amanda what I was doing, so she also had an opportunity to talk to me. So actually, Amanda knew about Nancy, and then she knew about me from pretty much the off. Really good question. Moving on to the next question. User 73768 I was really disappointed that we didn't get to hear more from Jessa in the podcast and then again in the docuseries. She was such an integral part of the story, and it seemed like she was kind of pushed to the side in the greater retelling of it. Oh, yes, And I'm not being yes about Jessa. I'm being yes. Thank you, user 73768. Because now I can explain why Jessa was not pushed to the side. This was Jessa's choice. So she's not in the docu series because Jessa didn't want to be. And it's really important that we. I. I'll say I. Because I can only speak for Myself honor that. Jessa is somebody that went through huge trauma. She was lied to, she was betrayed. But don't forget, she was a kid, she was a child, she was a minor. This is somebody that was raised and she spent her childhood thinking that her once friend, initially Amanda was her friend because Amanda came into Jess life through Jessa's older sister Jamie, and they spent time together with this 17 year old Amanda that came into the family home and she was her friend. And then Amanda became Jessa's stepmom and Jessa thought that Amanda had cancer. She lived in that household. She saw it with her own eyes. I never forget one thing that Jessa said to me was she felt guilty because she had free tennis lessons or she had freedom sports activities or free tickets for things. And Jessa thought that that was obviously because Amanda had cancer and people were just trying to give and be supportive and help as people should. And Jessa felt guilty about that and obviously she absolutely shouldn't, but she felt like, well, I was part of that. So if you think about what this has been like for Jessa and the impact on her mental health and how can she trust adults? She was a child that had adults around her lie to her. And so she felt like it was really important for her to share her story and to share her perspective, to share the impact it's had on her. But once. So I don't want anybody to think that she was pushed to the side. It was what she felt she could give and that was absolutely enough. Next question. OpheliaQuest. Were you ever able to get more backstory on Amanda's relationship with her mother, Peggy? Where was she the whole time? Are they close now? I would imagine that the relationship helped mold Amanda into the kind of person who could so easily lie and steal from the people closest to her. You know, that's one of the early questions I had as well. I can't 100% answer that. I'm really sorry, but I'm not gonna lie. And like everything I say is the truth and what I know, and I did try and contact Amanda' but they didn't want to be part of the podcast or the TV show. I have had a little bit of contact and I do know that Peggy, Amanda's mom, is supporting Amanda now through her prison journey and serving her time. And I also do know that when Amanda was younger, there was a pattern of behavior of seeking approval of adults and not really peers. This was from several people's testimony she was less interested in, like her friends, liking her, but wanting the adults to like her. I really did dig into the family and there was nothing that I could find. People just said, yeah, they were just a normal middle class family and there was nothing irregular about the father or the mother. And so I really did try and dig into that to see if that was a perspective. And according to Amanda, I've asked Amanda and she wanted it explicitly said that her family were not involved in this. And it's actually at the end of the documentary, in episode four, at the very, very end, that was actually something that Amanda told me. And so we made that decision to put that out there on the TV show because Amanda wanted to make that clear that her family were not involved. So it's up to you all to decide what you all think. How about we zoom out a bit? Now, a lot of you have asked, what does Amanda's story say about our society? Or how can we protect ourselves from scams like this? Oi. It's a hard one, right? Because I feel like, sadly, there are a lot of people that do manipulate people and there's manipulation in social media now, families, friendships, and people's personal life. But I think one takeaway for me is how crucial it is to ask questions and to dig deeper when something doesn't feel right. And it's not about being cynical, it's just about being informed and listening to your instinct. And I think there's so many times, I mean, I've, I've done it in my life where I'm like, you know what? I just knew and I felt it and I just didn't listen. But don't walk around being like, oh, I'm skeptical as that person. I'm skeptical of that person because that's not a nice way to live as well. Okay, let's move on to the questions. So. User 475963 watching this story unfold, I couldn't help but notice how ironic it all was. Here's a woman who was praised in her church as being this godly person, but in reality she was a mortal sinner, knowingly lying and stealing from her neighbors. It made me really question how much of Amanda's character was even real. Was she truly religious? Or do you think she just aligned herself with the church because she knew they'd be more likely to trust and support her? Hmm, that's good. Can it be both? I wonder if the answer's both. So I wonder if Amanda might think she's religious and has faith and has God in her heart, but also used the Church, because I think that you can convince yourself of something, and sometimes then you can actually use faith in, like, a cognitive dissonance way. Right. Okay, hear me out. So you can feel that you have faith, but then behave badly and then use the fact that you have faith or that you go to church as an excuse for behaving badly. And I think we actually see that quite a lot. Once you stand on a church stage, there's more of an automatic trust and a belief and a credibility because the church are putting you on that stage. And anywhere where there's a position of power, unfortunately, you know, whether it's now with social media or whether it's like 100 years ago, those positions of power were used to repress people and to manipulate people. So I think it's like, as old as time, really. And you can think you're religious but not act on it. So, AV Mill, next question. Underscore 17. I'm in no way trying to excuse how horrible Amanda is by asking this, but has anyone been able to confirm or deny if she has Munchausen's? I know she was obviously scamming people, but it also feels like she really craved the attention, like being the center of everything. Isn't that something people with Munchausen often do? This is something that's come up a lot and I've thought long and hard about because I didn't include it in the podcast, and a few people questioned me about that. And the reason why I didn't include it in the podcast is because I can't diagnose Amanda. And she hasn't been diagnosed with anything. She hasn't been diagnosed with fictitious or Munchausen's. So I can't just put it in there and say that she has. And for me as well, I didn't want to take away from the experience of victims and the story. And so mental health, I absolutely agree, is not an excuse. I really do understand mental health. I'm not a doctor, but I have studied psychology and I have got my level one schema therapy. And I've written a book about trauma called why it's okay to Talk About Trauma. And I've had a lot of trauma. And I think you're absolutely right when you said, I'm not trying to excuse, but it is interesting, like, whether she has or she hasn't. But mental health is never an excuse for anything. There's still accountability for actions, right? So, yes, psychological conditions may lead to manipulative behavior like compulsive lying or lack of empathy. But millions of us have mental health struggles and would never do what Amanda did. So I think it's really important to recognize that there's still a choice. Her actions weren't about an illness. They're about control, deception, and personal gain and personal attention. And so I do know that Amanda has not been diagnosed with fictitious disorder or Munchausen's or anything else. But those two things were mentioned in some court papers where Amanda asked for early leave for extraordinary circumstances, but they weren't mentioned in terms of a diagnosis. They were mentioned in terms of if she does and if she doesn't. I also know that Amanda has participated in mental health counseling, and it was also part of her probation. And I also do want to make sure that I say that I think sometimes you can double down on lies. So think of it as in like a white lie that you might tell, and then somebody questions you about something else that's integrated to that lie, and then you'll lie again so that they don't find out about your white lie. And then you have to lie again because somebody else has spoken about that, and then you have to lie again. And I know that sounds like so basic and so low level compared to somebody faking cancer, but it is that similar pattern. And I think it becomes very addictive and then is very, very hard to get out of your lie. And I do think that was also very much a part of this. And the other thing I would also say is that manipulation isn't just external. You can manipulate yourself, and people don't always see themselves as bad people or villains, and they can create their own narrative without facing the full weight of their own deception. It's really fascinating, right, the psychology of this. I hope that answered your question. I know it's a bit of a difficult one, but it's really great to be able to discuss. So if you've finished episode four of the docuseries, you know, I've been in touch with Amanda while she's been in prison and before she actually turned herself in, too. And of course, the big question is, what's Amanda up to now? She has been released from prison proper. I don't know whether I made that word up, but I like it. Prison proper. But she's still serving her sentence. She was released early January, and she's now in like, a kind of like a halfway house where she's still got very tight restrictions and she has to have permission to get out. She has different programs and schooling and things like that. The latest release date is the end of 2025. I suspect that will be a little bit earlier. So let's get to your questions then. Mountainmuse90, I don't believe for one second that Corey didn't know Amanda mentioned multiple times that she was undergoing big procedures or staying in the hospital for extended periods of time. How could anyone that close to her not having noticed something was majorly off? Was he not faking legal documents, helping manage the money? Did they not have a joint bank account? How could there possibly not have been enough evidence to convict him? Mountainmuse90, your questions are everybody's questions, let me tell you that. And they were also my questions when I was making the podcast and building this story and investigating everything. I do know that Corey did say under oath that he went to all of Amanda's doctor's appointments and hospital appointments and that there was accusations that his wife didn't have cancer and he went to all her appointments. He said that under oath. And bankruptcy was claimed and Amanda's medical bills were part of that. And obviously there weren't medical bills for cancer, but I did see medical bills for other things. And if you turned the page over, there was a change of number. If you held it to the light in terms of the police, the police investigated everything to do with this case, and it went to the irs. And because the law is adversarial, you need tons of evidence, obviously, to convict somebody of anything. And Amanda was lying about having cancer. Lying isn't against the law. So what eventually happened was Amanda was convicted of wire fraud, not everything else. So the wire fraud was the money going to Amanda's support, you know, amanda.com website and to Amanda. So for the police and for the law, that was why and how they convicted Amanda and not Corey. I did have conversations with Detective Martinez, and I do know that they looked at this case as a collective with Amanda and Corey. But again, it was all about the IRS convicting Amanda, and that was the only way that they could stop her. Because lying isn't against the law, hopefully. I answered your question with what I just told you about Corey saying under oath that he went to Amanda's hospital appointments. The next question, Pen Poppy, was Amanda and Corey's in brackets, unorthodox relationship history ever brought up in the court proceedings. It seems insane that everyone in their lives glossed over the fact that they have met when she was only a teenager. Okay, okay, let's dig into this. So I didn't gloss over it, but you also have to be careful in making accusations, right? So they did meet when Amanda was a teenager. Amanda was 17 when she was going into Corey and Alita's home. Corey and Alita were together at the time. Amanda, I remind you, was brought in to help with Jamie, who is Jessa's older sister, Elita's older daughter, because she was in recovery from cancer. What I do know is that Corey did go to Amanda's graduation, but Amanda and Corey did not get together when Alita and Corey were still together. Alita and Corey split up and they got divorced. Nothing to do with Amanda. There was still a custody battle ongoing. And then Amanda got together with Corey when she was 24 and he was 33. So I don't think it was glossed over. It's just that, like, that's about all we can really say on it, is just give the facts and then you can decide what you think about that. J.J. howard, 11. It's over to you. So if Amanda loves attention, won't this fuel more of this fire? With the documentary being out, do you know how she feels about this docu series? It's a really good point. It's something I thought about as well, because I'm like, oh, my God, am I, like, giving people a platform that shouldn't have a platform? Like, I definitely ask myself these questions in my head. I want you all to know and check myself constantly. And I don't think it will fuel the fire because Amanda didn't want to be part of the podcast and she didn't want to be part of the TV docu series. For me, if somebody really wanted that attention, wouldn't you have been part of both the podcast and the TV show? I don't know. That's just me putting a question out there. I was in touch with her while she was in prison, and I told her that the docu series was being made and that the podcast was going to be turned into a TV show. I asked her if she wanted to be on it, you know, and if she felt sorry, whether she would say that to her victims. This is not me telling her. Like, this is just in my head, right? And so she didn't want to be part of that. She felt it was more important to serve out her sentence and pay for what she's done and then think about that down the line. And she told me that she is sorry and she regrets it every day. And I don't get the impression that she's happy that this is a TV docu series. And I know that she was very concerned about it. And what Everybody's saying about her. So I think no matter who you are, even if you love attention, maybe attention where everybody's saying how much of a monster she is and how cool she is is not what anybody would want. That's just my opinion. But I need to say, because I did get asked that a few times, that she is not profiting from the podcast or the TV docu series. Amanda is not getting money for any of this. So let me scroll down. What's the next one? So many questions. It's so good. I love doing this and I love, like talking to you and I really appreciate that you've sent in all these questions. M2142, this is your question. Thanks so much for sending it in. In Amanda's court statement, she said, I'm so sorry this happened as if it all just materialized out of thin air. I guess we should have seen it coming that someone as cold hearted as her would have taken zero accountability. Do you think she'll ever actually apologize for what she did? And if she does, do you think it'll be genuine? Well, I asked myself the same thing because I sat in that courtroom and I listened to all the victims impact statements. And at the time, like, you know, it was early days for me and I was still trying to keep like a wide perspective on everything. And it was really emotional listening to the victims impact statements, especially Jess statement when she stood and said that in court. And then Amanda did turn around and she did look at the victims and then she did give her statement. And the judge said afterwards, like, I can see why you duped all these people because you're such a good actress. That's what the judge said to her. And the whole courtroom went and then held their breath for about a minute to see what the judge said next. And then when Amanda said, you know, I'm sorry this has happened, and I was like, mm, she's not really saying I'm sorry. I lied. And at the time I'd never spoke to Amanda before. And now I have spoke to her while she's been in prison because I wanted to ask the same question as you have. She has told me that she is sorry and that she knows what she's done and she did lie and she can't believe she did it. And it's up to you all how you take that. It's not for me to say. However, I don't feel that she's trying to manipulate because if you were, you'd have twisted things maybe rather than outright just said Yeah, I can't. I can't believe they'd done that. And I know that there was distress there that I do think is genuine. But I agree that the statement definitely didn't do Amanda any favors because it didn't come across very sincere. But let's see whether Amanda will do anything in the future and speak, because, you know, also remember that she hasn't said anything publicly. The only thing she has said is to me. And I've, like, checked myself about that too, and made sure that I've been super factual. And I think Amanda knows that she shouldn't and can't lie to me because it would be the wrong thing to do, and I would just catch her out, because she knows that I know everything, and I've seen everything behind the scenes as well. I do feel like she's genuinely starting to realize the gravitas of what she's done. And what I will say is, when Amanda gave that statement in court, I don't think she realized quite what she'd done and the gravitas of it. And you might be like, well, how could you not realize? Our brains can be very clever at convincing ourselves so that we don't have to morally check ourselves, because sometimes morally checking ourselves can be, like, so destructive that we're like, oh, my God, how could I? How could I do that? But I think now that the podcast has come out, because there's, you know, there's the law and then there's the public opinion, kind of like judgment, and they're two separate things. Right. So Amanda has been convicted, but then I made a podcast and released a podcast that let everyone know about it and now released a TV show. So I think Amanda's been forced to see the harm that she's caused. Oh, so good. I feel like we could just carry on talking for ages and, like, so many more questions. I'd love to answer. Yeah. And it's just been, like, also fascinating for me to hear what sparked your interest and what you all wanted to talk about. I'd love to just keep on talking, but this is just gonna be so long. So I'm gonna go to the final question. Vivi Jolie. What? Nice name. What's next for Amanda? What do you think she'll do now that she's out of prison? Well, just to remind you, I know I just said it, but Amanda is still technically in prison. She's just in, like, the next phase, like, a halfway house thing, which a lot of people that go to prison end up going to, and she's doing counseling, and she's doing, like, schooling and, you know, rehabilitation stuff. And she is due to get out at the end of the year 2025. Suspect that'll be a touch earlier. Amanda is going through a divorce at the moment. Amanda and Corey are divorcing. Corey filed for divorce in January of 2024, and they're currently working through what that looks like. Obviously, there's two children. I think for Amanda, it's a lot about reparation, as in repairing what she's done. I genuinely do believe that she knows what she's done. According to Amanda, she accepts what she's done. And this is about her serving that out and repairing what that looks like. I don't know. I do know that there's at least two people that are the victims of Amanda that probably would be open to a conversation with Amanda, not for an excuse at all, but an apology and an understanding of why. For Amanda, I think it's gonna be a totally new life for her, right? In the sense that she's gonna get out of serving her sentence and get out of this last stage, you know, this kind of halfway house that she's in. And her name is Googleable, and. Is that a word? And, you know, searchable everywhere. It's on tv. It's a podcast. Like, her name is known now as the woman that faked cancer. So for Amanda, I think it's gonna be really hard to, like, how is she gonna get a job? Because they're gonna do background checks on her. And I suppose, like, my question back for all of you is, do we believe in second chances? Do we believe in rehabilitation if somebody's accepted accountability and that they have done something wrong? The one thing I do want to close with, if it's all right, is also just mention people that have experienced. I say experience because I'm not a big fan of, like, battled cancer. Because if you lose that battle, it's not on you. It's on the disease, right? So for anybody that's gone through cancer, for anybody that's lost someone with cancer, I know this must be really difficult. So I just want to acknowledge you, because we've talked a lot about everybody else, and we've talked a lot about Amanda, we talked a lot about Corey. And I think that's what's so cutting for a lot of people, is how could you use something that destroys lives in many ways, like destroys lives through death and destroys lives just in. Even when you're still living? Because it must be horrific. I've never been through cancer, but I did go through a horrific illness that put me in a coma eight years ago and on a life support machine and I nearly lost my life and I had to learn how to walk again. I had brain hemorrhaging problems. And I do know what it's like to really battle that battle there. I use the word. But I really do know what it's like to go through something so horrific like that, and especially like the lack of control and the mental health impact of it. So I just want to make sure that I acknowledge you all. And yeah, and I don't want anybody to ever feel that they'll ever be questioned. And I'd call out to people to make sure that they still do help people. And this is about making sure that we stop lies like this and harm that's caused through manipulation and lies and understand more about the subtleties of manipulative behavior. It's not so obvious and hopefully I've shown you that. All right, I know we better wrap up. So before we do, I just want to say thank you for all your incredible questions. And you know what? For being such a passionate and engaged audience. I can't explain how much that means to me. It really does. I know this story's resonated with so many of you and your support really does mean the world. And don't forget, if you're craving even more Scamander, the docuseries is streaming now on Hulu. It's the perfect way to see the story unfold in a whole new light and I hope you enjoy the visuals being brought to life again. I can't thank you enough and I hope to speak to you all again. Until next time, take care. Scamander is hosted and produced by me, Charlie Webster, and Produced by Jackson McLennan. It's executive produced by me, also Charlie Webster and Nancy Moscatello. Edit and theme music is by Nico Palla. Assistant producer, Casey Hertz. Assistant editor is Seema Greywell. We've got additional production support from Stephen Sletton, Will Hagel and Nicole Urban. The Scamander after show is hosted by me, Charlie Webster and produced by Sasha Tong. Additional production and sound design by Maddie Hanneker. Scamander is a Lionsgate sound production engineered by Pilgrim Media.