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- [00:00]
Sachi Cole
Hey there, Scamfluencers fans want to be the first to know how these wild scams unfold. Join us on Patreon to get early access to episodes, ad free listening, and exclusive content that reveals even more of the drama. Just search for Scamfluencers on Patreon and dive deeper into the scandal.
- [00:22]
Sarah Haggie
Sarah, what do you think when I say the words Conrad Black?
- [00:26]
Barbara Amiel
Oh, my God, the boogeyman. I mean, I feel like he just kind of hovered over our lives as Canadians. I know that he was the publisher or the owner of National Post, which is a newspaper. Some might say, yeah, it is a newspaper. But, yeah, he. He was always in the news for going to court fraud. He's just like one of those people that you hear about when you're a kid and you're like, oh, yeah, that's adult stuff. And then you become an adult and you're like, oh, bad men.
- [00:54]
Sarah Haggie
Yeah, his specter loomed very large. He was like the babad. I was afraid of him all the time for some reason.
- [01:01]
Barbara Amiel
Definitely scary guy.
- [01:03]
Sarah Haggie
Well, you know, I love when a scam brings us back home. And this week we're heading back to Canada to hear about one of our very own fraudulent businessmen. And, Sarah, if you were hoping today's scammer would inexplicably be connected to every living evil person from the last three decades, I have a treat for you. It's May 2005, and Conrad Black is sneaking through the back door of his company's headquarters, a grand historic building in central Toronto with huge Greek columns lining the entry. Conrad is in his early 60s. He's tall and broad, with bushy eyebrows and neatly combed gray hair. He looks like a classic movie villain. And the fact that he's a multimillionaire only makes this vibe stronger. Conrad is the head of Hollinger Inc. An international media empire, and he's a caricature of wealth. He travels Everywhere in a 1958 Rolls Royce limo, and he often attends black tie events. But tonight, he doesn't want anyone to notice him, so he's wearing an inconspicuous blue suit and using a matching dark blue Cadillac as his getaway car.
- [02:08]
David Radler
Despite his nice life, Conrad is not in the best place right now. For the last two years, he's been fighting allegations that he's been stealing tens of millions of dollars from Hollinger to keep up his luxe lifestyle. Now he's under criminal investigation in the US and in Canada. He denies the allegations, but he's quickly heading towards a Legal dispute that could ruin his entire life. And Conrad's on thin ice with than just his investors. His best friend and longtime business partner, David Radler hasn't spoken to him in months.
- [02:36]
Sarah Haggie
But worst of all, and to Conrad.
- [02:38]
David Radler
This really is the worst part. His famous friends have stopped returning his messages.
- [02:44]
Sarah Haggie
No one is coming to save him from this mess. So he has to save himself by raiding his own office and destroying all the evidence.
- [02:53]
Barbara Amiel
You know, when a story starts with destroying evidence, you can only wonder where it will go from there.
- [03:01]
Sarah Haggie
It's a really promising start. Well, Conrad has returned tonight to remove boxes of documents from Hollinger's hq. He's not totally alone. With him is his devoted assistant of 11 years and his chauffeur. Because he's under investigation, he isn't allowed to take anything from his office without the approval of a court appointed inspector. And Conrad knows that the boxes he's targeting would never be approved because they contain papers that would implicate him in decades of self dealing. Conrad and his paid accomplices rush to pile the boxes in his Cadillac before anyone spots them. But that's when Conrad notices a security camera staring down at him. One that he hasn't installed himself. Someone's watching him cart off all the evidence. But it's too late to look back now. So after grabbing about a dozen of the most important boxes, the gang of thieves drive off into the night. Their plan is very simple. Dispose of the evidence and save Conrad from getting caught up in an international financial scandal. Conrad's used to getting his way for years. His rule breaking brought him wealth and gave him access to influential circles. Plus an extensive collection of Birkins for his wife. It's no surprise he feels untouchable, even in the face of possible jail time. But his smoke and mirrors lifestyle is about to catch up with him. And he's going to have to pay for it in more ways than one.
- [04:28]
Commercial Voice
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- [05:02]
Ryan Reynolds
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- [05:24]
David Radler
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- [05:34]
Sarah Haggie
From wondery I'm Sachi Cole. And I'm Sarah Haggie and this is Scamflancers. Come and give me your attention I.
- [05:42]
Barbara Amiel
Won'T ever learn my lesson. Turn my speakers to 11 I feel.
- [05:46]
Sarah Haggie
Like a legend Lord Conrad Black is an international media mogul who spearheaded one of the most prominent conservative media conglomerates in the world. It was a bastion of right wing news coverage that launched Conrad into a social circle filled with billionaires, intellectuals and even monarchs. Conrad loved holding court at star studded events and lavishing his wife and family with opulent gifts. But keeping up with his famous friends isn't cheap. Conrad's obsession with status leads him to steal hundreds of millions of dollars from his clients, investors and even his own company. And when his bougie lifestyle soars as his company's bottom line sinks, investors and regulators start to wonder how he's keeping himself in the Black. This is Conrad Black, the Fleet street fleece legend. It's 1957 in Toronto and 13 year old Conrad Black is breaking the rules. As usual, he's brazenly walking off school grounds to his chauffeured limousine with a group of his friends. Conrad's skinny, with red hair and a dorky disposition. He's a student at Upper Canada College, a prestigious private school for boys. Students aren't allowed off campus during school hours, but Conrad loves sneaking off to his waiting limousine to read comic books at lunchtime. Surrounded by a group of peers, he's hand selected. Conrad's used to being treated like a prince, and that's because he kind of is one. He lives in a mansion in one of Toronto's most exclusive districts and he's the son of George Black, the president of Canadian Breweries, the largest beer producer in North America. While he's not handsome or athletic like his dad, the two connect over a love of books, chess and wordplay. Conrad also shares his dad's love of important men from history like Napoleon and newspaper magnate William Randolph Hearst. Can you read what Conrad later wrote about Hearst?
- [07:38]
Barbara Amiel
Yes, he wrote all his life. Hearst had a conviction Often outrageous, but sometimes magnificent that the rules that applied to others didn't apply to him.
- [07:48]
Sachi Cole
Yeah.
- [07:49]
Barbara Amiel
You know, people love saying this. They do it to validate why they're special. Like, this person was special because they didn't follow the rules. And I'm gonna be special because I won't follow the rules.
- [07:59]
Sarah Haggie
Yeah. They're making it sound like it's virtuous to just do whatever you want. And Conrad doesn't feel like he needs to play by the rules either. At the age of 14, Conrad breaks.
- [08:08]
David Radler
Into his school's office.
- [08:09]
Sarah Haggie
He steals a bunch of final exams and then sells them to his fellow students. He charges them on a sliding scale, depending on how much their parents are worth. When Conrad gets busted, he's immediately expelled. His father claims his son is just being entrepreneurial. But the expulsion sticks. The peers Conrad sold papers to are all forced to sit their exams again, which means he's now Persona non grata socially. His ex friends make it official by burning an effigy of him on the front lawn of his house.
- [08:38]
Barbara Amiel
Wow. That is very, very intense. And you know, it's because there was no cyberbullying back then.
- [08:45]
Sarah Haggie
Yeah. This was really the only way for them to do it. Yeah. Well, then, five months later, the Black family is thrown a curveball. Conrad's dad has a fallout with his business partner over the direction of their company. He ends up taking an early retirement to avoid being fired. Though the family is okay financially, Conrad's dad never recovers. He falls into a depression and drinks every day.
- [09:07]
Barbara Amiel
A lot.
- [09:09]
Sarah Haggie
Conrad's dad was a successful businessman who played by the rules, and he had it all taken away. Seeing his father crumble teaches Conrad that work and success are everything and that people will always be waiting to take it from you. He becomes obsessed with making something of himself. And if he has to bend some rules to get to the top, that's just fine with him. A decade after Conrad gets expelled, David Radler sits in his father's restaurant in Montreal. David is 27 years old, tall, skinny, and likely much younger than the majority of the patrons. The restaurant is called Au Lutain qui Boeuf, which means the elf that gorges. It's filled with wooden chairs and round tables covered in checkered tablecloths. And it has an old fashioned, homey feel about it. The restaurant's also famously home to a group of tiny piglets which guests can bottle feed. We have a picture of one typical night at this restaurant.
- [10:05]
David Radler
Sarah, can you describe it?
- [10:06]
Barbara Amiel
Yeah. It's an average day in Montreal It's a bunch of people sitting at a table and they're eating dinner, and this woman is bottle feeding a piglet. And listen, a piglet is very cute. I would do this, but do I want animals around my food in any world?
- [10:25]
Sarah Haggie
Yeah, you're right.
- [10:26]
Barbara Amiel
You're right. Absolutely not.
- [10:29]
Sarah Haggie
Well, you have to admit, it's a cute piggy.
- [10:31]
Barbara Amiel
It's a cute pig. Of course.
- [10:32]
Sarah Haggie
Yeah. Well, David is an entrepreneur, and tonight he's dining with a law school student, Conrad Black. They run in the same conservative circles, and David was impressed with Conrad's knowledge and ambition. They're two young men determined to fill the shoes of their successful businessman fathers. And they bond over their shared childhood hobby, investing in the stock market. You know, normal stuff. About a year later, David joins Conrad in a new venture, buying a local newspaper, the Sherbrooke Record. It cost them $20,000 Canadian dollars, or over $100,000 US dollars in today's money. But the newspaper is struggling, and as the finance guy, the responsibility of fixing this falls mostly to David. Luckily, he's just the man for the job. He revels in pinching pennies, although his tactics are questionable at best. He starts by cutting the staff at the Sherbrooke in half to reduce overhead costs. And rather than have set salaries, David and Conrad sit down at the end of every week and decide what they think. Each reporter deserves to be paid. He also waits to pay the paper suppliers until their demands get nearly violent. David's a ruthless careerist with a photographic memory for numbers. He was practically built to be the money man. And within three months, the Sherbrooke is making a profit.
- [11:51]
Barbara Amiel
You know, I think the fact that this is how they view journalists, it's like, how much did they get paid? Let's see what they did this week and we'll figure it out from there. To me, it's just like, okay, these people don't care about news. They don't care about journalism or anything. It's just kind of a way to be powerful and, as we know, start an empire.
- [12:09]
Sarah Haggie
It's so evil. Over the next few years, David and Conrad go on a buying spree, quickly growing their media company. They continue to use this slash and don't pay strategy, gaining profits and plenty of enemies in the news world. In the early 70s, David moves to British Columbia with his wife and starts running west coast operations for the company. He's happy to work outside the spotlight, spending time with his growing family. By the late 70s, he and his wife have two daughters. Conrad takes A different approach. He's in charge of the east coast side of the company's operations, and it's around this time that he hooks up with a secretary named Joanna, gets her pregnant before her divorce is final and keeps the kid a secret until after their wedding. But unlike David, Conrad wants more than just a business and a family. By this time, he's published a biography of Maurice Duplessis, a far right politician who was the premier of Quebec in the mid 20th century.
- [13:02]
David Radler
Conrad wants to be known as an intellectual and be accepted by the upper echelons of Canadian society. And more importantly, he wants to get.
- [13:10]
Sarah Haggie
Invited to exclusive dinner parties. Conrad's ambition is about to drag David and him into a new realm of business dealings that will shock the establishment, pad their pockets and elevate Conrad finally into the high society he's craved for so long.
- [13:28]
David Radler
It's May 1985 and Conrad is settling into an armchair at a suite in the Hilton Hotel near New York's JFK airport.
- [13:36]
Sarah Haggie
He's in his early 40s now and has a reputation as a ruthless businessman. He flew here from Toronto on his corporate jet, which is lined with mahogany and leather. But Conrad won't be the fanciest person at the meeting today. That would be Lord Hartwell. A member of the British aristocracy. Lord Hartwell is in his 70s, with slick back hair, glasses and a penchant for wearing tweed suits. He's a member of the powerful Barry family, which owns a huge swath of the newspapers in the United Kingdom. Their crown jewel is the Telegraph, a right wing British newspaper revered by politicians and the elite. Lord Hartwell's father purchased it in 1927 and Lord Hartwell has run it since 1954. Can you read how he later described his work on the paper?
- [14:21]
Barbara Amiel
Yeah. He says, I was always terribly shocked when other people ran their newspapers like biscuit factories just to make money. What I was trying to do was make the Telegraph an institution which was respected and admired and which would leave the world to the poor if it were not there. It sounds awfully boring, but I regarded it as my life's work, that's all.
- [14:41]
Sachi Cole
I mean, regardless of the results. That is a much better attitude than it seems Conrad Black had when he.
- [14:46]
Barbara Amiel
First bought the paper.
- [14:47]
David Radler
Yeah, this is what you want the owner of a newspaper to sound like. But the Telegraph is foundering and it needs help to stay afloat. And that's what he and Lord Hartwell are discussing today.
- [14:58]
Sarah Haggie
Conrad negotiates a deal. $14.3 million for a 14% share of the Telegraph. But to really make the most of his investment, Conrad knows he needs to grab the reins fully. So he includes a provision. If the Telegraph sells additional shares in the future, Conrad and David get the first shot at buying them. And six months later, that's exactly what happens. The company is deep in the red and Conrad says he's willing to pony up more cash in exchange for a majority stake in the paper. This would mean the Berry family would be giving up control of the business. But they need this boost if they want the paper to survive. So Lord Hartwell accepts. In the end, they agree on a whopping $43 million for 50% of the voting rights. When Hartwell later announces the steal to the papers board, he faints and has to be carried out of the room.
- [15:48]
Sachi Cole
I mean, that is pretty dramatic, but, you know, it is his life's work and it is his biggest passion.
- [15:54]
Barbara Amiel
Like, it's the thing he is the most excited about.
- [15:57]
Sarah Haggie
Yeah, I'd faint too. Well, now that he's won the Telegraph, it's time for Conrad to get serious about his status as a media mogul. Alongside David, he combines all his media titles into a company known as Hollinger International and sets up Revelston, a company he inherited from his father, as its holding company. Now they have a punchy name and a new to create a true media empire. And with the Telegraph under his belt, Conrad is poised to rub shoulders with Britain's elite and nab the recognition and acceptance he's always wanted. But Conrad's gonna get far more than he bargained for because his effort to climb the UK social ladder is about to be turbocharged with the help of a little romance. It's October 1991 and Barbara Emile is attending a lavish dinner party in London at the historic Spencer house in Sussex St James, just down the street from Buckingham Palace. Tonight's party is hosted by none other than Lord Rothschild, the oldest member of the famous Rothschild banking family. Barbara fits right in with this crowd. She's a tall brunette with green eyes and a voluptuous figure. She was born in England and raised in Canada and now she's a right wing columnist for the Sunday Times. Known for her sly wit and adventurous spirit, she's also been married multiple times and has a reputation for being a hot as hell man eater. Barbara lives in a flat in Chelsea and her bedroom has a four poster bed and a mirrored ceiling. Once, she showed up at work in the middle of the day wearing an open trench coat over a black bustier and visible stockings. And when she was sleeping with her much younger editor. She dug her nails into his chest and drew blood so that his girlfriend would know that she had been there. Barbara, I have to say, is a bit of an icon, but she is also terrifying. Take a look at this picture from the early 1990s when Barbara was about 50.
- [17:45]
Barbara Amiel
Yeah, you know, she kind of looks like an evil sexy lady from a video game.
- [17:49]
Sarah Haggie
She looks like a Bond girl.
- [17:51]
Barbara Amiel
She's wearing a light blue short dress. Tasteful but sexy.
- [17:58]
Sarah Haggie
Hint of suggestion.
- [17:59]
Barbara Amiel
Um, methinks she's trying a bit too hard though, with all that.
- [18:04]
Sarah Haggie
Well, tonight, Barbara is doing more gossiping than flirting. She's seated next to Joanna, Black, Conrad's wife. She knows Joanna little enough to have invited her and Conrad to her third wedding. But the two have virtually nothing in common. Joanna is a devout wife and mother. She's converted to Catholicism and is taking it very seriously. But rumor has it things aren't going great in the Black household. Rumors that Joanna quickly confirms. Joanna tells Barbara that after spending the summer in Toronto, she and the kids are staying in Canada for good. Barbara's a serial dater of powerful bachelors. If she wasn't dating Oscar winning screenwriter William Goldman, and if Conrad was single, he'd be a prime target. So Barbara feels some duty to warn Joanna about, well, women like Barbara. She tells her quote, you must come back to England or you'll lose him. But Joanna responds, he's losing me.
- [19:00]
Barbara Amiel
Yeah, I would be like, excuse me, what do you. What?
- [19:03]
Sarah Haggie
Yeah, not a girl's girl.
- [19:05]
Barbara Amiel
No. That's a bit of a crazy thing to say to someone.
- [19:08]
Sarah Haggie
Well, after the party, Barbara learns that Joanna has been doing some flirting of her own with a Catholic priest and they're getting married.
- [19:17]
Barbara Amiel
Stop. Oh my God. That's. Honestly, that's low key. Awesome. Good for her.
- [19:22]
Sarah Haggie
She fleabagged.
- [19:24]
Barbara Amiel
Damn.
- [19:25]
Sarah Haggie
Well, not long after that, Barbara runs into Conrad again at another fancy cocktail party. This time, he waves her over. They get to talking and Conrad tells her his marriage is over. Their conversation leads to a new friendship. They bond over their shared love of opera. And the more time they spend together, the more smitten Conrad becomes. Barbara pretends not to notice because she's still technically in a relationship. But Barbara can't ignore how good Conrad smells. And she likes that he can make her laugh. She also loves riding around in his well stocked limousine. Most importantly, Conrad makes her feel taken care of. Something she always appreciates. After a few months, it's clear that Conrad is crazy about her. In fact, he proposes to her before They've even kissed. And while she's still dating William Goldman, Barbara is tempted. But she doesn't want to be Conrad's rebound girl. So she rejects him and tells him that he needs to see a psychiatrist to make sure that he really wants.
- [20:26]
Barbara Amiel
To be with her. This is so messy and so deeply crazy. Proposing before even kissing.
- [20:35]
Sarah Haggie
Sending them to a psychiatrist. I'm taking notes.
- [20:38]
Barbara Amiel
You know what? These two match each other's freak.
- [20:40]
Sarah Haggie
Yeah, well, a day later, Conrad calls Barbara up. The psychiatrist gave him a clean bill of health. He's not having a post divorce crisis and he refuses to stop fighting for her. So naturally, they begin a relationship from the start. Their courtship is glamorous and star studded. Conrad takes Barbara to the homes of government officials and wealthy people where she woos them with her natural charisma. Especially if they happen to be men. She can't believe how lucky she is. There aren't many eligible bachelors that can fund her lifestyle and are comfortable with a woman in her age range. Of course, Barbara isn't the only one getting a good deal. She's the partner in crime Conrad has always wanted. Well connected, captivating, charming. The perfect partner for his rise up in the ranks of the British elite. And that's exactly what they both intend to do. But it's going to get expensive. It's the summer of 1992 and Conrad is sitting in a small, dimly lit private dining room in one of the most exclusive venues in London. It's called Annabelle's and it's a members only club in the wealthy neighborhood of Mayfair. Conrad and about 20 carefully selected peers are sitting on plush red chairs around a candlelit table. Barbara and Conrad are hosting this party to celebrate their marriage held earlier that day at the Chelsea registry office. They had a low key ceremony because Conrad hadn't gotten an annulment yet for his first marriage. But that doesn't mean this dinner party isn't a full on celebration. Conrad seated between two of his close friends, Former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher and Sarah Ferguson, the Duchess of York and wife of Prince Andrew.
- [22:18]
Barbara Amiel
Wow. Talk about nightmare. Blunt rotation. I'm joking. I'm joking. I'm joking.
- [22:24]
Sarah Haggie
No, I think that's right.
- [22:25]
Barbara Amiel
No, I mean Sarah Ferguson. She's been through a lot. I'm not gonna make a huge judgment, but she's married to Prince Andrew. Conrad Black and Margaret Thatcher.
- [22:35]
Sarah Haggie
Those are the three people you see in hell. Truly.
- [22:38]
Barbara Amiel
I was going to say like they will know each other in hell.
- [22:41]
Sarah Haggie
Yeah. Well, even with all these big names in the room. Conrad's most concerned about one person. His best friend and business partner, David. He's relieved to find that David and Barbara are getting along tonight because so far, their relationship has been strained. They fight all the time. Luckily, the dinner is a smash success. And it's only the beginning for Barbara and Conrad. They spend their first year of marriage traveling. Dinner with William F. Buckley in New York, a summer in Maine at the home of David Rockefeller, then onto Fiji and Australia. They even hang out with socialite Brooke Astor. And for the Blacks, everything is a networking opportunity. Once they return to London, the pair turn their home into the place to be for opulent dinner parties. One of their biggest annual parties is a summer bash that attracts British politicians, business big hitters, and celebrities like Elton John and Candice Bergen. While Conrad isn't exactly known for being charming, he tends to turn conversations into lectures about historical figures. Barbara really knows how to throw a party. She's even referred to as the Cleopatra of Kensington.
- [23:47]
Barbara Amiel
Yeah, okay, that's a lot. But also, you know, this is so classic rich people, where it's like, even when these people get old and rich and have basically everything they want, like, they just want to be around celebrities and creatives.
- [24:01]
Sarah Haggie
It's all they want.
- [24:01]
Barbara Amiel
It's like you just want to buy being friends with Elton John and Candice Bergen.
- [24:06]
Sarah Haggie
Yeah. Of all people. Well, Conrad has finally arrived in London high society, and he's feeling himself. In 1993, at the age of 49, he releases a memoir, A Life in Progress. There's just one. The world is in the grips of the worst recession since the Great Depression, and the media business is taking a huge hit. If Conrad wants to keep partying, he'll need more cash. In 1994, two years into his marriage, Conrad decides to turn Hollinger into a publicly listed company. He later writes that Hollinger was only publicly traded to make, quote, cheap use of other people's capital. Of course, going public comes with risk. It means increased scrutiny and open books. But Conrad isn't worried about this. With friends in high places and a money man like David, how could anything go wrong? With this new cash flow? Conrad's about to achieve all his dreams, international renown, wealth, and the fanciest friends on earth. But he's going to do it his way, ruthlessly and at the expense of everyone else.
- [25:13]
Sachi Cole
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- [25:24]
David Radler
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- [25:33]
Sachi Cole
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- [25:38]
Sarah Haggie
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- [25:40]
Sachi Cole
Yeah. Jealous.
- [25:42]
Sarah Haggie
I know.
- [25:42]
David Radler
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- [25:54]
Sachi Cole
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David Radler
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- [26:13]
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- [26:22]
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- [26:34]
Sachi Cole
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- [26:37]
David Radler
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- [26:45]
Sarah Haggie
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- [26:46]
Sachi Cole
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- [26:55]
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- [27:12]
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- [27:27]
Sarah Haggie
I feel like a legend. The same month that Hollinger goes public, David Radler moves into a $1 million apartment at the Four Seasons in Chicago. By this point, David's hair has turned gray and he is a permanent tan from Spending all of his spare time in Palm Springs. Hollinger has just purchased the Chicago Sun Times, the ninth largest daily newspaper in the US by circulation. And David is in Chicago to oversee the takeover. So Hollinger is paying for David and his family to stay for as long as this takes. David's sprawling apartment has a marble bathroom, a huge soaking tub, quartz countertops in the kitchen, and panoramic views of the city. Not too shabby for temporary housing at this point. David is well known for cutting costs at his publications. He's been described as a, quote, union hating human chainsaw. So while he's living in luxury, he, the Chicago Sun Times staff is quaking in fear at what's to come.
- [28:25]
Barbara Amiel
Wow. So glad that this doesn't really happen anymore. This is so typical. I'm not surprised. And I feel like he's going to decimate this newspaper.
- [28:35]
Sarah Haggie
Well, also, unsurprisingly, journalists hate David. They think he's poison to every newspaper he touches. And when he arrives at the Chicago Sun Times, they are proven right. David starts by shutting down the office escalator to save in energy costs. Ultimately, the move increases costs because of the extra wear and tear on the building's elevators. Can you read how the paper editor at the time later described David's approach to layoffs?
- [29:00]
Barbara Amiel
Sure. This won't traumatize me at all.
- [29:03]
Sarah Haggie
Yeah, this is actually the trigger warning we should have given you.
- [29:05]
Barbara Amiel
This is the trigger warning we need. He said he came into an executive meeting once and threw a sheaf of papers down and said, I want 100 people laid off. We said, what are you talking about? He said, there were a hundred people off work last week and we got the paper out without them. That's the kind of guy he was. He was ruthless, honestly. Go to hell. This guy is playing the sims with people's lives. It's so disgusting. It's so selfish, and I'm rooting for his demise. What can I say?
- [29:36]
Sarah Haggie
Yeah, I think that's right. Well, at this point, Hollinger has been on a bit of a spending spree. It owns some big names in media now, in addition to local outlets. It's all part of a much bigger buy up tons of small local papers and use them to take out the nearest major player. By 1995, Hollinger owns more than 500 newspapers with a combined circulation of nearly 5 million. As Hollinger gets bigger, David finds new ways to get inventive with the business.
- [30:04]
David Radler
Starting in 1997, he inflates the circulation numbers of some of Hollinger's flagship papers by simply dumping all of their unsold copies in the trash.
- [30:14]
Sarah Haggie
And he uses these inflated numbers to charge advertisers way more money for ad placement. Cutting corners to make their businesses more profitable is one thing, but that's not enough for David and Conrad. They start using Ravelston, the holding company for Hollinger, as their own personal piggy bank. They have Hollinger pay Ravelston millions for David and Conrad's quote management services when the only thing the longtime business partners are doing at Ravelston is collecting checks. And after Barbour allegedly called the Concorde British public transport, Hollinger paid $25 million for a Gulfstream jet that could accommodate the Black's transatlantic flights.
- [30:54]
Barbara Amiel
Wow. It's one thing to just treat your newspaper like it's meaningless and employees like trash the regular way, but this whole thing of inflating numbers and dumping these unsold copies in the trash only to be like, yeah, we should be buying a better jet. It's a level of evil that really, really gets me.
- [31:12]
David Radler
Yeah, I mean, he is rich enough and he's scamming to get even richer. But this scheme quickly runs into trouble. David and Conrad's enormous management fees, plus the hit the newspaper industry is taking from a switch to digital content, has Hollinger drowning in debt. And it's debt that needs to be paid off fast. So by the time 1998 rolls around, David is overseeing the sale of 45 of their US based newspapers to the tune of $475 million, or almost a billion dollars in today's money. David's looking for more than a good purchase price, though. So he starts weaving non compete clauses into all of Hollinger's sale agreements. When a company buys a paper from them, Hollinger agrees not to create a competing paper. In exchange, they get a large payout. But most of these papers are so hyperlocal that there's no point in competing with them. So Hollinger is making millions of extra dollars for basically doing nothing on top of this. Because of the way that the laws work in Canada, these profits are all tax free. The money from these bogus deals should be going back to Hollinger, but instead it's being diverted to Ravelston without the board's knowledge. Conrad and David are secretly squirreling away millions of dollars that should belong to their shareholders. And no one else at Hollinger is the wiser. David and Conrad aren't just skimming money off the top of their business anymore. They are defrauding their board and their shareholders to line their own pockets. And they're breaking the law, if you can believe it. There's even more scamming on top of this. Hollinger is also footing the bill for David and Conrad's pet interests, like a wing donated to Toronto Children's Hospital for Conrad, or a $168,000 donation to David's alma mater, Queen's University, to establish the Radler Business wing.
- [32:59]
Sarah Haggie
And in 1998, Conrad buys $18 million worth of stock in Livent, the company owned by Scamflancer's alum Garth Drabinski. He made the investment two months before Garth was hit with criminal charges by the Justice Department. And Conrad then personally contributed to Garth's legal defense fund. David isn't as obsessed with status and luxury as Conrad, but he does enjoy the creature comforts that come with all this extra money. He buys a mansion in Vancouver with an indoor swimming pool, builds an 18th century art collection, and takes full advantage of the Hollinger jet.
- [33:31]
David Radler
He uses it regularly to fly to Israel, where his daughter works at the Jerusalem Post, which is owned by Hollinger.
- [33:38]
Sarah Haggie
David and Conrad have transformed the way they use Hollinger. Now they see it more as their own personal piggy bank. But it won't be long before their shareholders start to notice their unsavory schemes. It's December 2000, and Conrad is beaming at a crowd of New York's finest. He's thrown a hell of a party for Barbara's 60th birthday. There are nearly 100 guests, and the party is held at an exclusive French restaurant in Manhattan. On the menu, beluga caviar, lobster ceviche, veal and beef carpaccio paired with Dom Perignon. Conrad's seated next to a famous drag performer and American royalty, Ford and a Rothschild child. There are six billionaires in attendance, as well as Jeffrey Epstein.
- [34:24]
Barbara Amiel
Wow, you don't say. Jeffrey Epstein was at at least one of his parties, huh? Wonder what their relationship was like. Probably super innocent.
- [34:35]
Sarah Haggie
They just had money talk. Yeah, he was a financier.
- [34:38]
Barbara Amiel
It was just about going on jets and stuff.
- [34:40]
Sarah Haggie
Yeah, talking about cash. Well, at the end of the night, the bill comes. They spent 13 grand on just the wine. The total for the night is more than $62,000. But Conrad's not worried. He charges most of it back to Hollinger as a business expense because, hey, he's networking. As happy as he is to treat his wife, Conrad's also celebrating how far he's come. He started working on a new biography about his beloved fdr. He's finally holding court among some of the most powerful people in the world, and they're hanging onto his every word. He can talk about Napoleon as much as he wants.
- [35:16]
Barbara Amiel
It is just so crazy how all these guys like this have an obsession with Napoleon. You know, maybe it doesn't mean anything, but it's usually a sign of a guy who is batshit.
- [35:27]
Sarah Haggie
Well, all of Conrad's socializing is paying off. His circle of friends worships him and Barbara. The pair are living out of a premium apartment in Manhattan, and Conrad uses Hollinger funds to furnish it. So far, Hollinger's paid for a $12,000 vanity stand and a shaving bottle once owned by Napoleon. But Conrad's not worried about his insane spending or how it might look. He has his sights set on something bigger. He's about to follow in the footsteps of many shady businessmen before him and become a member of the British aristocracy. It's Halloween 2001, and Conrad gleefully waits in a red leather seat in the House of Lords. When his name is called, he stands up and walks with Margaret Thatcher at his side towards a man in ridiculous British legal garb, a puffed black robe and an enormous curly white wig. Conrad is in a robe of his own, too, and he's feeling regal because.
- [36:23]
David Radler
Conrad is being entered into the House of Lords, a privilege reserved for British aristocracy and businessmen with the right connections. This group includes the highest of British elites, and they have actual power over political decisions in the UK Now. Conrad is one of them.
- [36:40]
Sarah Haggie
Conrad signs his name and turns to wave at his friends in the visitors galley, Barbara and Henry Kissinger. He's now Lord Black of Cross harbor, named for the station next to the Daily Telegraph's newsroom. He'll have the right to vote on issues that reach the House of Lords, like new laws or issues in government.
- [36:58]
Barbara Amiel
It's so hard to process this because he's always around the most evil people in the world. And now, outside of having power from just owning newspapers and being able to control the news, now he has this position that actually changes things on a legal level, right?
- [37:15]
Sarah Haggie
Yeah, he's really extending his influence. And Conrad's hopeful that his new title of lord will get him noticed in New York, where he's still a small fish in a big billionaire pond. He's doing well in London, clearly, but the power in the UK isn't enough for him. Being powerful in America means you're powerful everywhere. He wants a seat at that table, but he isn't rich enough yet. So in the meantime, at least he has a cool new name.
- [37:40]
Barbara Amiel
My God, get over it. You're a grown ass man. You're rich. It's so pathetic, but also so Canadian.
- [37:49]
Sarah Haggie
Real Canadian inferiority complex. But in the meantime, Conrad and Barbara are really living it up. They bounce between their homes in London, New York and Florida, regularly traveling across the Atlantic by private jet, often at Hollinger's expense. Like at the end of 2001, perhaps to celebrate Conrad's lordship. They take a trip to Bora Bora that costs more than half a million dollars. And they bill Hollinger for the use of the jet, complete with a brief stop in Seattle to go to the opera. Conrad also has Hollinger pay $8 million for a cache of FDR papers, research for his latest book, letters that he then puts on display in his own home. These are all bold moves for a man whose company is struggling. Conrad and David have spent the last year selling off many of their publications, largely to cope with Hollinger's mysteriously rising debt. It doesn't help that Conrad uses these frequent restructuring opportunities to steal even more money. He charges Hollinger $30 million for his services as a manager that year alone. All of these fees go straight to Ravelston and into Conrad's pocket without anything saved for taxes or Hollinger shareholders. David, as a joint owner of the company, likely gets some money from this, too. But Conrad isn't worried. Even after all this time, he doesn't think anyone notices what he's doing. But a former reporter is already on his tail, and it's only a matter of time before she exposes him in 2001. While Conrad's having the time of his life as a newly minted Lord journalist, Laura Jarecki is enjoying her recent career shift. She had been a dogged investigative journalist at places like the Wall Street Journal, but a few years ago, she decided to take a more lucrative role as a stock analyst at a big time investment firm called Tweedy, Brown and Company. As an analyst, Laura's job is to examine the companies the firm invests in. She had actually recommended that Tweedy invest in Hollinger a few years ago, and the firm now owns an 18% share of Hollinger Inc. But Laura has noticed the disparity between Conrad's lifestyle and the dire financial situation at his company. By the early 2000s, Hollinger's stock price is almost half of what it was when the company went public. They were forced to unload $2.2 billion in assets just to stay afloat. But according to Hollinger's public announcements, annual revenues have topped $2 billion for four years running. As a former journalist, Laura knows that newsrooms can eat money. Plus, some of this can be explained by the state of the industry. Newspaper advertising has been drying up. But that still doesn't explain why the company is in so much debt. There has to be a hole to plug somewhere because the company is leaking money. So Laura decides to start digging. And she stumbles upon something huge. As the executive directors of Hollinger, Conrad and David are collecting tens of millions of dollars from the sale of their newspapers thanks to those lofty non compete agreements. But this money isn't supposed to be going to them. It's supposed to be going to the company's shareholders. The two men are stealing from their investors and shareholders in place plain sight. And Laura seems to be the first person to notice. Laura decides she can't let this stand, so she writes to Conrad and gets no response. But she doesn't give up. Instead, she spends an entire year writing and emailing Conrad demanding answers about the money he's skimming from his company. She even starts a letter writing campaign to Hollander's board of directors. But every letter goes unanswered. No one is willing to talk to her. And maybe that's because the board of directors is mostly made up of men like Henry Kissinger, who are technically on the board but rarely attend meetings. The board also happens to include Barbara, who has collected $1 million a year for doing absolutely nothing.
- [41:27]
Barbara Amiel
Oh my God. This is really classic tale of one person wondering what's up and uncovering an entire scam. It is pretty crazy that she was the only one to figure out that they're skimming from their shareholders. Like, I don't get how no one else cares.
- [41:46]
Sarah Haggie
Yeah, I'm always amazed at how little people care about stuff. Well, Laura doesn't know it yet, but Conrad is reading her emails, every single one of them. He's even been drafting responses. But instead of sending them to Laura, he's circulating them to his cronies, mocking her behind her back. He uses subject lines like Epidemic of shareholder Idiocy and even starts referring to Laura as a Rottweiler. But as far as Laura knows, she's being completely ignored and she's stuck standing by as Conrad continues to earn millions of dollars. In 2002, he pays himself over $400,000 from the Telegraph in London and receives another $248,000 just for attending Hollinger's board meetings.
- [42:28]
David Radler
Around this time, Laura's boss at Tweedy Brown and Company gets involved. He tries to drum up the support of other shareholders to go after Conrad, but their fund owns less than one fifth of the company. Getting support, even with Laura's figures, isn't easy.
- [42:44]
Sarah Haggie
Then comes the golden gun. In August 2002, the new issue of Vogue hits newsstands. It features a lengthy profile of Barbara along with a photoshoot at their London home. She gives the journalist a tour of her many closets. One for furs, one for sweaters, one for T shirts, and one so crammed full of evening gowns that extras have to be kept in overflow closets downstairs. She also shows off more than a dozen Birkin bags and over 100 pairs of Manolo Blahnik shoes. She proudly tells the journalist that she possesses, quote, an extravagance that knows no bounds.
- [43:18]
Barbara Amiel
This kind of happens with Vogue sometimes, be it Vogue weddings or these profiles of wives. Literally just wives where they think like, oh, this is great. Like, I've made it. I'm in the pages of Vogue. I was selected for whatever reason. But they don't know they're doing something incriminating.
- [43:36]
David Radler
Yeah, she's hiding in plain sight in this very ugly dress. And when Laura sees the article, she's probably thrilled. There's no way the Blacks can afford everything in this photo spread. With his posted salary alone, it shouldn't be hard to whip up Conrad's investors into a frenzy to finally get answers about his spending and the company's finances.
- [43:57]
Sarah Haggie
By May 2003, Laura's hard work finally pays off. Tweedy Brown and company files a complaint with the SEC demanding that Hollinger's board investigate the payments Laura found to Conrad's accounts. A special committee of Hollinger directors is assembled to oversee the investigation. They pore over the documents Laura compiled, comb through the murky financial structure that David and Conrad set up, and start to trace the flow of money through Hollinger. By the end of the investigation, the group estimates that Conrad and David have stolen nearly $400 million from the company over seven years. That's nearly all of Hollander's profits from this period. In November 2003, the committee sends Conrad a letter demanding he account for millions in unauthorized payments on the same day that he starts his FDR book tour.
- [44:42]
Barbara Amiel
When I think about someone like Conrad Black, you kind of wonder, like, what does he actually care about? He obviously wants to have an image of a guy who knows a lot about history and can write a book on FDR and knows a lot about Napoleon. But he also doesn't look at history for any type of lesson, it seems.
- [45:01]
Sarah Haggie
No, he doesn't think that he needs to learn anything at all.
- [45:05]
Barbara Amiel
No, it's like the oddest status symbol. Just be cool and you won't have to do all that.
- [45:09]
Sarah Haggie
While Laura's many years of tireless work do more than just ruin Conrad's book tour, because of her efforts, Conrad and David could be facing millions of dollars in fines and repayments, and maybe even jail time. Under intense pressure from the board and the media, David resigns from his role at Hollinger at the end of 2003. Conrad follows suit a year later, but immediately after, he sues the Hollinger International Committee for $1.1 billion, claiming they defamed him. But Laura probably isn't worried about any fallout. Everyone involved knows Conrad doesn't have a leg to stand on. He's just trying to buy more time by tangling them up in expensive legal battles. As long as Conrad can continuously and loudly protest his innocence, he has a chance of swaying public opinion just enough to maintain his reputation and maybe even worm his way out of this mess. But this chance is about to run out, because a traitor is about to emerge from Hollinger's ranks.
- [46:11]
Narrator
In the early hours of December 4, 2024, CEO Brian Thompson stepped out onto the streets of Midtown Manhattan.
- [46:19]
Sarah Haggie
This assailant pulls out a weapon and starts firing at him.
- [46:22]
Narrator
We're talking about the CEO of the biggest private health insurance corporation in the world. And the suspect he has been identified.
- [46:29]
Sarah Haggie
As Luigi Nicholas Mangione became one of.
- [46:32]
Narrator
The most divisive figures in modern criminal history.
- [46:35]
David Radler
I was targeted, premeditated amid to sow terror.
- [46:38]
Narrator
I'm Jesse Weber, host of Luigi. Produced by Law and Crime and Twist. This is more than a true crime investigation. We explore a uniquely American moment that could change the country forever.
- [46:50]
He's awoken the people to a true issue.
- [46:55]
Barbara Amiel
Finally, maybe this would lead rich and powerful people to acknowledge the barbaric nature of our healthcare system.
- [47:02]
Narrator
Listen to Law and Crime's Luigi, exclusively on Wondery. Plus, you can join Wondery in the Wondery app, Spotify or Apple podcasts.
- [47:10]
Okay, let's be real. Have you ever had a moment where you just said screw it or someone and did something totally wild? Now imagine you just got a life changing diagnosis and instead of playing it safe, you throw caution to the wind and dive headfirst into a world of one night stands, forbidden affairs and wild adventures. Well, that's exactly what Molly and I did and Dying for Sex, Wondery's award winning podcast that's now streaming on a TV near you, starring Michelle Williams and Jenny Slate. And to top it off, we are dropping brand new episodes where I, Nikki Boyer, co host of the series, sit down with the cast to spill all the juicy secrets. We're talking steamy stories, deep friendships and the kind of bold choices that make life worth living. Listen to the original Dying for Sex and brand new episodes on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge the original series before anyone else and completely ad free on Wondri.
- [48:12]
Sarah Haggie
I feel like I it's April 2004 and David's feeling vindicated. He spent his whole life being careful with his wealth and staying away from the limelight that Conrad craves. While the whole world is watching his former business partner, he's been mostly left out of the spotlight, which gave him time to figure out his next move. And he's decided to bet it all against Conrad. David is nervous, but when his lawyer approaches federal investigators, they say they're willing to strike a deal with him. If he cooperates and helps to incriminate Conrad, they'll give him a lighter sentence. David does have mixed emotions about this deal. He can't help but feel guilty for throwing Conrad under the bus. They've built empires together and they've both been stealing money. But if David doesn't save himself first, the blacks will come for him eventually. Especially Barbara. She's never liked him anyway. The next month, Conrad is caught on camera taking documents out of the Hollinger offices. Remember this from the beginning of the episode. This little stunt prompted allegations that Conrad was obstructing justice on top of everything else. David might feel a little vindicated reading about his friend's desperate and very stupid ploy. David may have been a figure behind the scenes as he and Conrad built their incredible media empire, but he's about to step firmly into the spotlight as the US Government star witness in taking Conrad down. But as David likely suspects, his old friend and business partner is not going down without a fight. Seven months after David starts cooperating with the US Government, federal prosecutors indict Conrad for cheating shareholders and withholding taxes in Canada, the Justice Department, the sec, and a newspaper company owned by Hollinger are seeking more than $1.5 billion in damages from Conrad and other executives. He and Barbara sell their homes in New York and London. In August 2006, Conrad is getting ready to celebrate his 62nd birthday with a dinner at his mansion in Toronto. But festivities are seriously dampened when a legal order comes down freezing his assets. Earlier in the summer, Conrad told the court that he and Barbara spent an average of about $200,000 a month on reasonable expenses. Now everything from his catering expenses to his butler's salary has to be pre approved. And the judge is putting the blacks on a serious budget. They can only spend around $22,000 a month.
- [50:38]
Barbara Amiel
Oh my God. That's nothing. What the hell are you supposed to do with that $22,000 a month? Okay.
- [50:44]
Sarah Haggie
What?
- [50:44]
Barbara Amiel
You'll get your nails done and go to a movie.
- [50:47]
Sarah Haggie
Chump change. Well, six months later, in March 2007, Conrad walks up to a large black building, the U.S. district Court of Northern Illinois. In the courtroom, Barbara and his 24 year old daughter from his first marriage sit behind him. Conrad is pretty sure he's going to win. He even released an opinion piece in the National Post in Canada just before the trial started. It was titled I am not afraid.
- [51:13]
Barbara Amiel
And this is the newspaper he owns and is stealing from.
- [51:17]
David Radler
Right on the list.
- [51:20]
Barbara Amiel
What a guy.
- [51:22]
Sarah Haggie
But the prosecution's opening statement doesn't pull punches. They've created huge graphics to help the jury deconstruct Hollinger's convoluted corporate structure. They accuse Conrad of being just like a bank robber, but in a suit instead of a balaclava. And Conrad isn't helping his own defense. He smirks openly when his emails are put on display for the courtroom. Then in May, David finally takes the stand. And when he enters the witness box, he makes a real show of it. Onlookers describe him as a forlorn and remorseful criminal, walking slowly into the courtroom with his head bowed. But David's also wearing a bright pink tie and his incredibly suntan. Plus he's wearing loafers. Despite the turmoil he's faced over betraying his ex best friend, David seems relaxed and is even smiling. He tells the jury that Conrad had oversight over every financial decision that they made at Hollinger. He was well aware of every dodgy charge and transaction. And later that month, the prosecution put a cherry on top of David's damning testimony by playing the CCTV footage of Conrad stealing all those boxes of documents from the Hollinger office.
- [52:29]
Barbara Amiel
Now that we've gotten to the point where that is revealed to the court, it is genuinely so surprising that he physically went and did that and didn't hire someone to scope out the area, figure out if there was other surveillance. It just seems like such a stupid Mistake?
- [52:48]
Sarah Haggie
Yeah, it's a lot of unforced errors across the board on this story. But on the bright side, Conrad does have some things going for him, like his loyal wife, who hasn't left his side since the trial began. But Barbara's not exactly doing him any favors at the moment. Conrad always thought she had one fatal flaw. Her anger, which she struggles to control. And unfortunately, she's now releasing it on anyone she considers to be the enemy. She's even actively attacking journalists reporting on the case. In one incident, she cornered some of them in an elevator and called them sluts and vermin.
- [53:23]
Barbara Amiel
That is. Honestly, it's hard not to root for her.
- [53:27]
Narrator
It's hard.
- [53:28]
Barbara Amiel
No. Okay, whoa. I'm not rooting for her, but.
- [53:29]
Sarah Haggie
Not to root for her, but you know what I mean? Like, I do want to write everything she says down in my diary.
- [53:35]
Barbara Amiel
She's definitely a character. She is very amusing, and it's so funny to be like you sluts, vermin in 2007. And also, you know, she's angry, and the only person to blame is her husband, and yet she's angry at everyone else.
- [53:52]
Sarah Haggie
Yeah, well, her husband does have a lot of supporters, at least 100 of them, including Elton John, who have written to the court and requested that Conrad get a lenient sentence. In August 2007, Conrad is found guilty on three counts of fraud and one for obstruction of justice. He'll face a debt of $6.1 million to his shareholders, significantly less than the $30 million the US government originally aimed for. Four months later, Conrad is sentenced to six and a half years. During this time, Barber writes articles about how Conrad's trial has exposed gross defects in the American justice system. Sarah, can you read this quote from her 2020 memoir on the subject?
- [54:30]
Sachi Cole
Yeah.
- [54:30]
Barbara Amiel
She says the only revenge would be to see our persecutors guillotined. I have worked out 1,001 ways to see them die, beginning with injecting them with the Ebola virus and watching. What? Okay, she is. Calm down, sister.
- [54:46]
Sarah Haggie
I can't. It's crazy that they publish this when.
- [54:48]
Barbara Amiel
People are operating from a place of a totally different reality. Like, what can you even say, yeah.
- [54:54]
Sarah Haggie
Well, after all this. Conrad reports to a Miami prison in March 2008, and he actually has a blast in prison. He keeps a journal in French. He befriends some Colombian inmates who make him expertly brewed coffee. He tutors young people on day trips outside the prison and gives history lectures. He meets friends for lunch, and he gets to play the piano Every day he gets back to writing his column in the National Post and the Daily Beast and the National Review. During his time in prison, Conrad earns so much respect from his fellow prisoners that they sometimes salute him when he joins them for class. He also has an entourage of jailmates who mop his floors, iron his clothes, and do other menial tasks for him, though essentially, he Learned nothing. In 2011, while he's still behind bars, Conrad releases another memoir, A Matter of Principle. It gets blurbs from Alan Dershowitz, George F. Will, and Rush Limbaugh.
- [55:49]
Barbara Amiel
Yeah, I mean, likely place for them to be. It is the scum of the earth.
- [55:55]
Sarah Haggie
Scum meets scum.
- [55:56]
Barbara Amiel
I can't believe how many times Alan Dershowitz makes an appearance in this show.
- [56:01]
Sarah Haggie
It's basically, this is his show.
- [56:02]
Barbara Amiel
I truly hope they are all reunited in hell. I don't know what else to say.
- [56:07]
Sarah Haggie
Well, Sarah, I know you know some of the rest. In May 2012, Conrad is released from prison after serving about three years. He returns to Canada and reclaims his citizenship. And he gets right back to work. He starts hosting a talk show called the Zoomer, where he interviews right wing figures like Boris Johnson and Donald Trump. In fact, he and Donald are still so close that Conrad writes his 2018 biography, Donald J. A President like no other. One year later, in May 2019, Donald Trump pardons Conrad for his crimes. Conrad never takes accountability for what he did. A few months after his pardon, he writes in his National Post column, quote, my long ordeal with the US justice system was never anything but a confluence of unlucky events, even though those events include being convicted of skimming money off the top of his company. As far as Conrad's concerned, he's always been in the right. And it seems like no matter what misdeeds you commit, having friends in high places always pays off.
- [57:08]
David Radler
Sarah, a brutal one today. Always hard when we have to talk about someone whose scam we witnessed in real time and we were directly impacted by it. Cause you and I wrote for a lot of different newspapers that were owned by Conrad Black. It's funny to think of Conrad Black as the early architect of the demise of Canadian print media, but I guess he did almost single handedly destroy newspapers.
- [57:29]
Barbara Amiel
He did. And it's so upsetting when everyone's like, who could have possibly known that everything would turn out this way? And you're like, everyone could have. People like him are smart enough to implicate enough powerful people in their crimes, both the known and unknown ones, that anyone with power would have to be a class traitor to actually punish him.
- [57:51]
Sarah Haggie
He was also just such a deeply unpleasant and odious public figure. It seemed like he rejoiced when life was harder for marginalized people. So it wasn't just that he's, like, stealing money from this company, from all of his companies, or that he's killing the paper. It's that he also was, like, gleeful about being an asshole.
- [58:11]
Barbara Amiel
Yes, of course. And when someone's humbled, a lot of the times they end up, you know, not trying to get in the spotlight in the same way or maybe rehabilitate their image in some way. But he truly did not. Him and his wife are two of the most shameless people this country has ever produced.
- [58:28]
Sarah Haggie
Part of what makes him so evil is that he did this scam when he was already rich. Yes, he was born into upper echelons of society already. He was already born with a silver spoon in his mouth. He already had plentiful money available to him to rent jets and such, and he still stole money. And we have a lot of scammers who do stuff like this. And it's not like we're saying, yes, you should do fraud, but it is at least a little more understanding when you come from fucking nothing and you're trying to get a taste of this, like, high life that you've never had access to. This is someone who will always have access to it, no matter what. He was always going to be in those rooms. It's just a question of whether or not people had to, like, kiss his ass or not.
- [59:11]
Barbara Amiel
We have these episodes also where I feel so grateful for my stupid normal life. And this is one of those where I'm like, I could never in my wildest dreams want this. Cause it's so disgusting to me.
- [59:24]
Sarah Haggie
I'm glad that I have no taste for a private jet.
- [59:26]
Barbara Amiel
No, not at all. I mean, hey, but if you got one, I will sit on it. If it's going somewhere anyway, I'm not gonna say no.
- [59:32]
Sarah Haggie
Yeah, I guess the lesson is I would never charter a jet. But I'm open to a seat.
- [59:37]
Barbara Amiel
I would. Yeah, put me on a seat. Put me on the jet. If there's a seat there, I'm just going to sit there. I'm just going from point A to point B.
- [59:44]
Sarah Haggie
No blood on these hands.
- [59:45]
Barbara Amiel
No, no, not at all.
- [59:51]
David Radler
Loving scamflancers get exclusive episodes and early access to new ones, all ad free on Onery Plus. Join now in the Wondry app, Apple podcasts, or Spotify. Before you go, help us out by taking a quick survey@wondry.com survey.
- [60:11]
Sarah Haggie
This is Conrad Black, the Fleet Street Fleece. I'm Sachi Kol.
- [60:15]
Barbara Amiel
And I'm Sarah Hagie. If you have a tip for us on a story that you think we should cover, please email us@scamfluencerswondery.com we use many sources in our research. A few that were particularly helpful were Shakespeare, Shades of Conrad Black, His Rise and Fall by Robert Siklos, Friends and Enemies by Barbara Amiel, A Life in Progress by Conrad Black and reporting by Edward Klein, Maureen Orth and Duff Macdonald for Vanity Fair.
- [60:41]
Sarah Haggie
Jessica Lucas wrote this episode. Additional writing by us Sachi Cole and Sarah Hagie. Olivia Briley is our story editor. Fact checking by Lexi Perry Sound design by James Morgan. Additional audio assistance provided by Augustine Lim. Our music supervisor is Scott Velasquez for Freeze on Sync. Our managing producer is Desi Blaylock. Our senior managing producer is Callum Plews. Janine Cornello and Stephanie Jens are our development producers. Our associate producer is Charlotte Miller. Our producer is Julie McGruder. Our senior producers are Sarah Enny and Ginny Blum. Our executive producers are Jenny Lauer, Beckman, Marshall Louie and Aaron O'Flaherty. For Wondery.
- [61:25]
Narrator
What if your mind could trick your body into feeling sick or even worse? In Hysterical, I investigate the bizarre medical mystery that unfolds in a high school in upstate New York. It starts with one girl developing strange, violent symptoms. And then another. And then another. Rumors begin to swirl. Is it something in the water inside the school or is it all in their heads? Hysterical is my search for answers. And along the way, I uncover surprising connections to unexplained incidents around the world. Events that challenge everything we think we know about our bodies and our minds. Named Podcast of the Year at the Gambies, Hysterical is a mind bending, unforgettable ride. Binge all episodes right now exclusively and ad free on Wondery. Start your free trial of Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts.