ENCORE: George Santos: Putting the "Con" in Congress | 173

Summary

Podcast Summary: Scamfluencers – ENCORE: George Santos: Putting the "Con" in Congress | 173

Wondery | August 18, 2025 | Hosts: Sarah Hagi & Sachi Cole

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the rise and fall of George Santos, one of America's most notorious political scammers. The hosts recount Santos’s long and bizarre history of deception, his path into Congress, the cascade of lies that unraveled his career, and his eventual downfall. By tracing the web of petty to audacious scams that defined Santos’s public persona, the hosts ask: what drives someone to keep lying even after being caught, and why was he able to get so far?

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The "Scamfluencer" Politician: Setting the Scene

• Opening Reflection: Sarah introduces George Santos as an epic scammer whose lies covered everything from family tragedies to fake professional accomplishments. Sachi notes the almost comedic level of Santos's deceptions, remarking that his scam “didn’t hurt too many people, I think.” (01:02)
• Status Update: Sarah and Sachi bring listeners up to date, noting Santos’s 2025 imprisonment for wire fraud and aggravated identity theft, his failed bid for a pardon, and infamous social media antics.
  • Quote: Sachi (reading Santos’s post): “‘The so called friends I have that said they’d help legit should have told me to go fuck myself, because that’s what has essentially happened with their actions. I’ve accepted my fate and don’t want to talk about it anymore.’” (01:37)

2. Origins: Small-Town Fraudster to Capitol Hill

• Early Relationships and Red Flags:
  • Gregory’s Story: Gregory Maury Parker recounts meeting George (then Anthony Devolder) and noticing early signs of deception, including lies about wealth and a missing Burberry scarf. Gregory later recognizes the scarf on Santos at a political rally. (04:44–05:43)
  • Quote: Sachi: “A smoking Burberry scarf. This is the greatest story I’ve ever heard.” (05:45)
• Brazil Years and First Crimes: Santos’s mother’s gambling addiction and their financial instability set a backdrop for his early misdeeds. As a young adult, he forges checks in Brazil to buy luxury goods—an early glimpse into his appetite for both status and cutting corners. (09:00–10:49)

3. The Web of Lies: Identity, Relationships, and Ambition

• Shifting Identities: The hosts discuss Santos's use of multiple names/aliases (Anthony Devolder, Katara), fake Wikipedia entries, claims of drag queen participation, and unsubstantiated Disney Channel cameos. (10:24–10:50)
• Manipulative Relationships:
  • Marriage for Immigration: Quick, confusing marriage to help a woman gain permanent residency.
  • Other Relationships: Openly dates men, boasts about wealth and power, and makes dubious proposals to boyfriends.
  • Moving to the U.S.: With the help of Adriana Parisi (who later accuses Santos of swindling her out of jewelry), Santos leaves Brazil under a cloud of fraud accusations and reinvents himself in Queens. (11:30–13:48)
  • Quote: Santos, to the New York Post: “Everybody that has ever wanted to come for me is coming for me, and they’re making shit up on the way…” (13:35)

4. Scamming the Vulnerable: The Charity Con

• The Friends of Pets United Scandal:
  • Navy Vet Victim: Richard Ostoff, a disabled Navy vet, describes being scammed by Santos, who set up a GoFundMe for Richard’s dying dog but then withheld the money. The story is described as “the cruelest thing you could have done to this person” by Sachi. (15:46–18:15)
  • Santos’s Denial: Santos publicly denies wrongdoing, painting himself as a dog rescuer, but additional victims surface with similar stories. (18:30)

5. Building a Political Persona

• Fake Resume and Credentials: Santos claims degrees from Baruch College and jobs at Citibank/Goldman Sachs—none of which are real.
  • Quote: Sachi, paraphrasing Santos’s defense: “What a crazy fucking way to say I didn’t write it. But, I mean, I’m sure he did.” (20:04)
• Political Network: With his campaign treasurer Nancy Marks, an experienced Republican operative, Santos builds his campaign machine even after losing his first election by 13 points. Instead of conceding, he fundraises for a recount and attends new member orientation in DC regardless. (21:30–22:44)

6. Winning by Lying: How He Got Elected

• Second Campaign Success: Redistricting favors Republicans, Santos gains key endorsements, and successfully courts Jewish voters (by falsely claiming Jewish heritage). (30:37–32:02)
• Ignored Warnings: Only local papers raise concerns about his background and finances. When his own background check uncovers lies, Santos fires the company and pushes forward. (32:15–32:25)
• Victory and National Spotlight: After his election victory, Santos becomes nationally known—just as the New York Times investigates and exposes the breadth of his lies. (34:00–35:00)

7. Public Unraveling & National Sensation

• Compendium of Lies Exposed:
  • Fabricated Jewish Heritage: Claims to be a Jewish descendant and Holocaust survivor’s grandson, which is debunked.
    • Quote: “Would it not have just been easier for him to lie and say he converted? That is a lot harder to fact check.” – Sachi (37:34)
  • Pulse Nightclub Victims: Claims company employees died in the Pulse shooting—found to be untrue. (37:59)
  • Mother’s Death on 9/11: Contradictory public statements about when and how his mother died, ultimately disproven by official documents. (39:12–40:23)
• Quote: Sachi: “If you have to talk to Piers Morgan, you’ve already lost.” (40:23)
• Absurd Claims: Santos claims to have been a D1 volleyball player, to have survived a brain tumor, to have had both knees replaced. The hosts note it’s impossible to keep up with all the fabrications.

8. Congressional Chaos and the Crash

• Congressional Conduct:
  • Sworn into Congress under a media storm, he becomes vital for the Republican majority but is soon forced to resign committee assignments due to mounting scandals. (43:12–44:28)
  • State of the Union Antics: Cameras catch Santos front and center during Biden's address; Mitt Romney tells him, “You don’t belong here.” Their spat trends as big as Biden’s speech. (44:31)
• Federal Indictments:
  • First Charges: Wire fraud, money laundering, unemployment fraud—ironically, after he sponsors a bill targeting the exact type of fraud he committed.
    • Quote: Sachi: “If I wrote in a piece of fiction…an editor would be like, ‘a little silly, don’t you think?’” (46:25)
  • Donor Credit Card Fraud: Massive theft from campaign donors, including fundraising using fake loans and fictitious donors. Nancy Marks pleads guilty and further implicates Santos. (48:45–49:44)
  • Botox & OnlyFans: Congressional ethics investigation finds campaign funds went to personal expenses, like Botox and OnlyFans. (51:25)

9. Clinging to Relevance

• Refusal to Resign: Despite mounting evidence and charges, Santos resists calls to resign.
• Victim Complex: In interviews, blames others (especially Nancy Marks), and spins conspiracy theories (like his niece being kidnapped by the Chinese government). (50:00)
• Media Obsession: Sachi and Sarah note how they kept having to update the episode as new developments broke almost daily. (51:51)

10. Motivations and Final Reflections

• Attention-Seeking, Not Power or Wealth:
  • Santos’s drive seems less about money or power than being the center of attention—even negative attention.
  • Quote: “He just needs to be at the center of everything.” – Sachi (53:23)
• Victimhood as a Strategy: The hosts dissect how Santos used tragedy (real or fabricated) to earn sympathy and cover for his lies, noting how this denies real victims their stories.
  • Quote: “It’s not enough to just have a dead mom. His mom has to be dead from cancer from 9/11.” – Sachi (52:38)

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Notable Quotes and Moments with Timestamps

• “He wrote: ‘The so called friends I have that said they’d help legit should have told me to go fuck myself, because that’s what has essentially happened with their actions. I’ve accepted my fate and don’t want to talk about it anymore.’” – Sachi (01:37)
• “A smoking Burberry scarf. This is the greatest story I’ve ever heard.” – Sachi (05:45)
• “Everybody that has ever wanted to come for me is coming for me, and they’re making shit up on the way…” – George Santos, via the New York Post (13:35)
• "The reports that I would let a dog die is shocking and insane. My work in animal advocacy was a labor of love and hard work. These distractions won't stop me." – George Santos (18:30)
• "What a crazy fucking way to say I didn’t write it. But, I mean, I’m sure he did.” – Sachi (20:04)
• “Would it not have just been easier for him to lie and say he converted? That is a lot harder to fact check.” – Sachi (37:34)
• “If you have to talk to Piers Morgan, you’ve already lost.” – Sachi (40:23)
• "If I wrote in a piece of fiction that the only thing this guy did in Congress was support a bill that would stop scammers from taking advantage of pandemic unemployment assistance, that he then takes advantage of...an editor would be like, 'a little silly, don’t you think?'" – Sachi (46:25)
• “He just needs to be at the center of everything.” – Sachi (53:23)
• “Loving scamfluencers? Get exclusive episodes and early access to new ones, all ad free on Wondery.” – Outro (54:10)

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Timeline of Important Segments

• 00:00–01:50: Intro, catch-up on Santos’s latest news and media antics
• 04:44–06:27: Early indications of Santos’s scamming tendencies (Gregory's scarf)
• 09:00–13:48: Santos’s first frauds, move to the US, manipulative relationships
• 15:46–18:30: “Friends of Pets United” and the dog charity scam
• 20:04–22:44: Fake credentials and the launch of his political career
• 30:37–32:25: Winning a House seat by deceit
• 34:00–36:54: The New York Times exposé and the start of the media firestorm
• 37:34–40:23: Most notorious lies (Jewish heritage, Pulse shooting, mother’s death)
• 43:12–44:28: Entering Congress, spectacle and controversy
• 46:25–51:25: Indictments, legal fallout, and final scandals
• 52:06–54:10: Final reflections and attempts to understand Santos’s motivations

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Tone & Style

The episode is fast-paced and witty, with moments of incredulity and dark humor (“Put him on Housewives!”; “A smoking Burberry scarf”). While the tone is playful and irreverent, the hosts are also empathetic to Santos’s victims, particularly in discussing the charity scam. The overall delivery balances mockery of Santos’s preposterous lies with thoughtful commentary on the systems and cultures that enabled him.

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Conclusion

The story of George Santos is both a farcical and cautionary tale of unchecked ambition, the strange rewards of infamy, and the limits of public accountability in the age of scam culture. The hosts highlight how his story—equal parts tragedy and comedy—underscores the dangers of valuing spectacle over substance in leaders. As Sarah and Sachi put it, it’s lesson in “how not to scam” and a final reminder: always, always read past the headlines.

Transcript

[Sarah Hagie]

Hey, scamfluencers fans, Sarah here. If you love the drama deception and mind blowing reveals, wondery is your VIP ticket to more ad free episodes, early access to the juiciest scandals and deep dives you won't find anywhere else. Get the full scamfluencers experience. Sign up today. We'll be back soon with brand new episodes of scamfluencers. But today we wanted to take the chance to check back in with one of our favorite political scammers ever disgraced former representative George Santos. George lied about everything from where he went to college to his past as a volleyball player to claiming that his mother died in 9 11. Even when he got found out, George kept lying and lying and it got him all the way to the U. S. House of Representatives. But once he was in the halls of power, journalists started asking tough questions. You remember all this, Sachi? Yeah.

[Sachi Cole]

A rare case of a politician scam that delighted me and didn't hurt too many people, I think.

[Sarah Hagie]

No, I don't think so. Who knows? I mean, again, not my circus, not my monkeys. Eventually he was kicked out of Congress and pled guilty to wire fraud and aggravated identity theft and was sentenced to seven years in prison. And in July 2025 he reported to prison. But in the lead up to jail time, George went off first. He went on TV and wept asking for a pardon. And when that didn't happen, he went on X to complain. And it is so good. Sachi, will you please read what he said?

[Sachi Cole]

He wrote the so called friends I have that said they'd help legit. Should have told me to go fuck myself because that's what has essentially happened with their actions. I've accepted my fate and don't want to talk about it anymore.

[Sarah Hagie]

Iconic. Iconic.

[Sachi Cole]

Put him on housewives.

[Sarah Hagie]

I hate rewarding someone like him, but he really is an entertainer. But he then deleted his account and then he restarted an account and said Republicans should support Eric Adams in the New York City mayoral race. He also posted that if anything happens to him in prison, people should suspect foul play. George's story is an absolute and total mess from beginning to end. Enjoy and stay tuned for new episodes coming soon. Sachi, what's your stance on politicians like? Do you automatically assume that they're all liars?

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah, politicians bad. I don't know why you would do it as a job and I'm inherently distrustful of it and I think I'm right to be.

[Sarah Hagie]

We fully agree on this. And. And the subject of today's story is An American politician I know you've heard of. He's so bad at lying that he gets caught in doing it constantly about things that seemingly don't even matter. This is the story of how a small time fraudster became the Anna Delvey of Congress. It's January 5, 2021, and Gregory Maury Parker is sitting in his apartment in Boxborough, Massachusetts. Gregory is a preppy white guy in his early 30s, and right now he's glued to the news on television. A crowd of Trump supporters have gathered in Washington, D.C. for what they're calling the Stop the Steal rally. It's basically the warm up for January 6th, when these guys will storm through the US Capitol to falsely claim that Donald Trump won the presidential election. As Gregory watches, he realizes he actually knows one of the speakers at this rally. He his old friend, Anthony Devolder. Gregory met Anthony on a dating app eight years earlier when they were both in their mid-20s. They weren't a romantic match, but they became friends and briefly lived together in Queens. Gregory remembers that some things about Anthony seemed sketchy. For example, Anthony bragged about his family's wealth and even said they owned a house on Nantucket. But Gregory never saw any evidence of that. Money. Like Gregory gave Anthony money to cover his share of the rent each month. But somehow he says there were still eviction notices on their door every month. Gregory also claims he lost a Burberry scarf. It was expensive and had a lot of sentimental value to him. Gregory immediately suspected Anthony of taking it, but in all these years, he's never been able to prove it. Still, Gregory isn't totally shocked by Anthony's appearance at the rally. They still follow each other on social media. So Gregory knows that Anthony has gotten into politics lately. And he also knows that Anthony is going by a different name now. He's calling himself George Santos.

[Sachi Cole]

Sounds familiar.

[Sarah Hagie]

Yeah, you may have heard of him. And by the way, we emailed George's press secretary to see if George would like to comment on the allegations in this episode. She politely responded, no, thank you. But back to this day In January of 2021, George has just run for Congress for the first time and lost. Anthony isn't surprised by this, and neither is anyone paying even the slightest amount of attention. George ran as a Republican in a heavily Democratic district in New York. But Anthony is surprised to see George deny that he lost. Here's a clip from his speech.

[Sachi Cole]

You're from New York.

[Narrator/Reporter]

You know what they did to me? They did to me what they did to Donald J. Trump. They stole my election.

[Sarah Hagie]

As Gregory watches his old roommate play the victim and claim the election was stolen, he notices something George is wearing. A camel colored Burberry scarf that looks exactly like the one Gregory used to have.

[Sachi Cole]

Oh, come on.

[Sarah Hagie]

I love it.

[Sachi Cole]

A smoking Burberry scarf. This is the greatest story I've ever heard.

[Sarah Hagie]

Oh, it only gets better. George will do whatever it takes to be the stylish politico of his dreams, whether that's something as big as claiming election fraud or as small as stealing a scarf. And even though he lost his first congressional election, George has already amassed a crowd of followers. He's dramatic, charismatic and compelling. And he's just getting started. After he runs for Congress a second time, he'll become one of the most notorious and scandal plagued politicians in recent American history.

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[Sarah Hagie]

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[Sarah Hagie]

From Wondery. I'm Sarah Hagie.

[Sachi Cole]

And I'm Sachi Cole.

[Sarah Hagie]

And this is Scamfluencers. I won't ever learn my lesson. Turn my speakers to 11. I feel like a legend. Listen, no one trusts a politician, but George Santos lies like it's an Olympic sport. He fabricated everything from where he went to college to claiming that his mother died in 9. 11. And he's continued to lie even after getting caught, over and over and over again. You might think you know this story, but trust me, you haven't heard about everything Jorge Santos has gotten up to. He does nothing, and no one is sacred to him except his need to be the center of attention at all times. This is George Santos putting the con in Congress. Legend. The George Santos story is riddled with so many bizarre and petty lies that it can be hard to tell fact from fiction. But here's what we do know. George was born in 1988 and raised in Queens, New York. Most of his aliases come from his legal name, George Anthony Devolder Santos. His mother, Fatima, was born in Brazil, and she moved back there when George was still a kid. In 2008, when George is about 20 years old, he decides to join her. It's around this time that George is shopping at a boutique clothing store in Niteroi, a coastal city near Rio de Janeiro. He's got a stack of clothes that he wants to buy and a pair of shoes that he says are for his boyfriend. The total, $1,300. George has always had a taste for expensive things. The problem is he doesn't have a job. His mother is a nurse, but she reportedly has a gambling addiction. So money is tight. But today, George has a secret weapon. A literal blank check. The check belongs to one of George's mom's patients. George apparently found the checkbook in his mom's purse. Why it was in her purse, we do not know. Apparently, the patient had reported it stolen and closed the account a few years earlier. But it doesn't matter, because when George presents the check to the shopkeeper, he also shows her an ID he made to match the name on the checkbook. The shopkeeper takes a check, and George leaves with his new clothing.

[Sachi Cole]

It is crazy to me how much of our world at one point operated on checks. It's like the least secure form of money management I've ever heard of. Just pieces of paper representing thousands of dollars. You just do whatever you wanted for a while there.

[Sarah Hagie]

While luxury goods aren't the only thing George loves, he also enjoys putting himself in the spotlight. That's probably why some of his acquaintances later tell reporters he competes in a drag beauty pageant under the name Katara. George denies this, but he does acknowledge that he has previously dressed up as a woman. Okay, and here's a weird tidbit. You know how when you edit a Wikipedia page, you have to create a profile with your username?

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Sarah Hagie]

Okay, so at one point, a Wikipedia Profile shows up with the username Anthony Devolder. Remember, that's George's name at the time. The user profile says that he, quote, started his stage life at age 17 as a gay nightclub drag queen and with that, won several gay beauty pageants. It also claims he appeared in Disney TV shows, including the Suite Life of Zack and Cody and Hannah Montana. Clearly, Niteroy isn't a large enough stage for George's big dreams, and soon he's going to need to find a new venue for his scamming, whether he wants to or not. It's early 2011, about three years since George used those stolen checks, and now he has a big problem. He's facing criminal charges. After George left the store, the shopkeeper realized that the forged signature on the checks didn't match the account holders. A few days after that, George's then boyfriend came in to exchange the shoes. The shopkeeper knew they were bought with a bad check, so he asked who gave them to him and used that information to track George down on social media. George confessed to the crime, apologized, and said he'd make it right, but he didn't. So now he's facing fraud charges. George wants to get out of town, but he and his mother, Fatimah, probably don't have enough money to buy a plane ticket to the US So they decide to talk to their friend Adriana Parisi. She's a friend of their family and she treats George like a son. In the past, she says she's helped George out by buying him food and letting him stay with her when he's strapped for cash, which happens a lot. She says she's also paid off Fatima's gambling debts on a few occasions. Those debts can run up to $6,000 a month. Adriana is already planning to move to the States, so Fatima asks if she can bring George with her. Fatima mentions that George is in a little bit of trouble, but doesn't explain exactly what happened. And Adriana doesn't ask questions. She agrees to pay for George to fly to the US on her dime, and she lets him live with her in Queens. While he's getting settled, George gets a job at a Dish Network call center. It's not very glamorous, but being able to take calls in Portuguese means he can make a little extra money on top of his hourly pay. Later on, when George is settled with his own apartment, Adriana and her family briefly move in with him. Adriana says he tells her that it's a bad neighborhood and she should give him her jewelry for safekeeping Then she claims he just doesn't give it back. George has denied these allegations. Years later, he tells the New York Post, quote, everybody that has ever wanted to come for me is coming for me, and they're making shit up on the way I look. And I very much look forward to poking holes in all these people who are making these insane accusations without any corroborating evidence because it is false. I don't know why. I love that.

[Sachi Cole]

I am going to caption an Instagram photo with that exact quote.

[Sarah Hagie]

Honestly, the thing about George Santos is, unfortunately, he's famous for a reason. He's got the gift for gab. He can say anything, and he's always fighting for his life. George allegedly threatens to have Adriana deported, but around the same time he's attacking her. George helps another Brazilian woman, his wife. If it feels like George having a wife is coming out of nowhere, it is. They get married when George is 24, and two years later, he successfully files a petition for her to gain permanent residence. George later claims he was confused about his sexuality when he got married and that he and his wife were pretty much in love. But being married doesn't seem to stop George from openly dating men during this time, including an 18 year old who's still in high school. The men he dates later tell ABC News that George brags about his connections and his wealth. Some of them say he even proposes to them, but George doesn't comment on the allegations. Around this time, George meets Gregory on a dating app. Gregory later tells CBS Mornings that George had big political ambitions even then.

[Narrator/Reporter]

He told me once that if I can get elected to Congress for just one term, I will be set with a pension and health care for the rest of my life.

[Sarah Hagie]

But in order to make a political splash, George is going to need way more than brazen confidence. He's going to need money. It's May of 2016, and Richard Ostoff is in the waiting room of a New Jersey veterinarian's office. Richard is about 40 years old. He's a white guy with a long, curly beard that's starting to gray. He's a disabled Navy veteran, and he's been out of work and living on the streets for the past few months. He's living in a tent off the side of the highway, and a lot of the time his only companion is his beloved dog, Sapphire. He later tells CNN how much Sapphire means to him.

[Narrator/Reporter]

When I first got out of the service, I was depressed. I was having nightmares, bad, bad memories about some things that happened. If I didn't have that little princess with me, I probably would have not been here to speak to you.

[Sarah Hagie]

Right now, Richard needs Sapphire. But right now, Sapphire also needs Richard. She's developed a growth in her stomach. When Richard takes her to the vet, his worst fears are confirmed. She has a life threatening tumor. The operation to remove it will cost $3,000. But a vet tech tells Richard he has another option. He says he knows a guy who runs a charity called Friends of Pets United. Maybe they can help Richard raise money for Sapphire surgery. He puts Richard in touch with his contact at the charity, George Santos. Richard is desperate to get help for Sapphire, so he lets George set up a GoFundMe page for him and the donations quickly roll in. Navy buddies he hasn't heard from in years put hundreds of dollars towards Safire's care. In just a few weeks, he meets his fundraising goal. But once it's over, George won't give Richard the money. He says that Richard has to bring Safire to a vet clinic in New York instead of the New Jersey practice where she was diagnosed. For whatever reason, the New York vet says they can't operate on Sapphire. It's unclear why. Richard texts George, distraught. He doesn't understand why he can't just bring Sapphire to his local vet, which has already agreed to operate. They can use the cash they got from the fundraiser to pay her bills. George avoids Richard's calls for a while. Then when he finally responds, George allegedly accuses him of being needy. And he reportedly says that because Richard refused to do things his way, the money his friends and family donated is being given to other dogs instead of Sapphire. George denies that any of this ever happened, though he does admit to working with the so called charity. More on that later. When asked about the incident via text, George tells a reporter, fake, no clue who this is. Sapphire never gets the operation she needs and she dies about six months later. Richard has to panhandle just to raise enough money to have her euthanized and cremated. He later describes it as one of the most degrading things he's ever had to do.

[Sachi Cole]

This is the cruelest thing you could have done to this person. It's almost like he designed it to cause maximum harm. He's like, how can I hurt the one thing this person needs?

[Sarah Hagie]

It's not even like, hey, I'm gonna steal money. Who should I target? Someone whose pet is their lifeline, the only sense of normalcy they have in their life. And I'm going to lie, steal his money. Like, it's just Crazy.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah.

[Sarah Hagie]

And there are other people besides Richard who say they've been jerked around by friends of Pets United. They later allege that George organized a fundraiser on behalf of their pets, then disappeared with the money. But George denies it all. In a tweet, he says, quote, the reports that I would let a dog die is shocking and insane. My work in animal advocacy was a labor of love and hard work. Over the past 24 hours, I have received pictures of dogs I helped rescue throughout the years, along with supportive messages. These distractions won't stop me. George is building a reputation for himself, and it isn't exactly a good one. But he's not interested in making a career out of GoFundMes. He wants to meet rich, well connected people who can help him become influential. Which can only mean one he's about to start working in Finance. In 2017, about a year after he blows off Richard, George starts freelancing for a company that runs investor conferences. He gets paid on commission, convincing companies to sponsor the events. About two years into it, he starts getting in touch with Republican power brokers. He tells them he's interested in running for Congress. At this point, George has a surprising amount of legitimate work experience. But the resume he gives the Nassau County Republican Party still claims that he studied economics and finance at Baruch College before working at Citigroup and Goldman Sachs. None of that is true. George later tells Piers Morgan that the resume in question was never furnished or supplied by me.

[Sachi Cole]

What a crazy fucking way to say I didn't write it. But, I mean, I'm sure he did.

[Sarah Hagie]

So he had to say it like this.

[Sachi Cole]

He's like, I wrote it, but I didn't furnish it. I didn't supply it.

[Sarah Hagie]

Yeah. Did I hand it to them? I don't know.

[Sachi Cole]

Did I write it in my own hand with blood? No. Did I type it on a computer, maybe? Don't worry about it.

[Sarah Hagie]

Well, in the summer of 2020, George keeps climbing the lad. He gets a new job at an investment firm called Harbor City Capital. And he later starts hanging out with the New York Young Republicans. George sees a place for himself among them. He likes their extremist politics and their intense loyalty to President Trump. And he really likes that he can stand out as a young, gay Latino man in the conservative world. George is making friends and influencing people. And he's about to make his most important friend yet. The woman who will help put him on the political map. George is sitting in a converted garage on Long Island's South Shore. There are a couple of People there processing checks, drinking Diet Coke and smoking cigarettes just a few feet away. All of Georgia's networking has finally led him here to Nancy Marks. Nancy is in her 50s, with a deep tan and big auburn hair. Over the last 20 years, she's become kind of a one stop shop for New York's Republican candidates, doing everything from serving as campaign treasurer to helping print lawn signs. Nancy and George are both hustlers, people who grew up without much money or political connection and are determined to find themselves a seat at the table. Maybe Nancy sees herself in George. It would explain why from day one, she treats him like a son. After George announces he's running For Congress in November 2019, he gives Nancy a big role in his campaign. He starts including her on fundraising trips and staff calls. The district George is running in is majority Democrat, and the incumbent is pretty popular. George knows the odds are against him, but on election night, it briefly looks like he might have pulled it off. The day of ballots are in his favor, but as vote by mail ballots are counted over the next few days, George. George watches his mirage of victory slowly vanish. Of course, he won't let a little thing like reality stand in his way. Instead of preparing to concede, George hires more staff and starts raising money for a recount. And he actually goes to Washington D.C. for Congress. New member orientation.

[Sachi Cole]

A scrappy that's like dressing for the job you want. Or like showing up for the job you want when you didn't get the job that you wanted.

[Sarah Hagie]

It's like going to another school's prom.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah, why not?

[Sarah Hagie]

Well, this time, fake it till you make it. Doesn't work out for George. Eventually, the election results are certified for his opponent. And it doesn't even end up being close. George loses by nearly 13 points. So he has to head back to New York, at least for the time being. His first political campaign didn't end the way he hoped it would. But no one gets to call Jorge Santos a loser. He's going to get the money and the power he knows he deserves, no matter how many more lies he has to tell to get there.

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[Sarah Hagie]

But cookunity is seriously nothing like that.

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[Sachi Cole]

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[Sarah Hagie]

Still really holds up.

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[Sarah Hagie]

I feel like a legend. It's the last night of 2020, and George is at the epicenter of the Republican world. Mar a Lago. He's having the time of his life at a New Year's Eve party with Republican bigwigs like Donald Trump Jr. And Rudy Giuliani. George divorced his Wife a little more than a year earlier. Now he's got a new fiance. Matthias is 24, and he's got dark, wavy hair and prominent eyebrows. He's also from Brazil. He and George now live together in Queens. George probably loves that they're rubbing shoulders with some of the most powerful people in the country. So of course, he has to pose from the party. Sachi, can you describe the scene here for me?

[Sachi Cole]

Okay, well, Matthias looks like George's son, first of all. And it looks like they are trapped in a haunted house owned by Rudy Giuliani, who George Santos has photographed shaking the hand of.

[Sarah Hagie]

It is so crazy. He is allowed in public.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah, black hair, tar paint and all.

[Sarah Hagie]

Well, the next day, the New York Times publishes a story about the maskless gathering at Mar a Lago. They report that it likely violated Palm Beach County Coronavirus guidelines. The online article links to George's Instagram post about the party. Saatchi, can you read what he tweets in response?

[Sachi Cole]

Oh, gladly. He says, my fiance and I had to leave our home this evening with our four dogs, thanks to the New York Times publishing of my Instagram showing me attending the Mar a Lago New Year's Eve party. The violence against us is real. There's something uniquely egregious about saying it's violence that the New York Times reported on something that I offered.

[Sarah Hagie]

Yeah, like, you mean your public Instagram where you posted photos like, get a grip.

[Sachi Cole]

Get a grip.

[Sarah Hagie]

Well, the violence that George is referring to is that he claims his fiance was fired from his job because of the Times article, But the Times couldn't confirm that that actually happened. And there's no police record of any other threats against George. A few days later, he travels to D.C. for the stop the Steal Ral. He joins other election deniers to claim that his own congressional race had been rigged.

[Sachi Cole]

Okay, so this is where George is wearing the scarf, the smoking Burberry scarf. And he's recognized on television.

[Sarah Hagie]

Yes. That is the day before. You know what other day? January 6th. Okay. And on the big day, George was in the crowd for Donald Trump's speech. He later said it was the most amazing crowd and the President was at his full awesomeness that day. Afterwards, he heads back home to New York and to work at his finance job at Harbor City Capital. But then, a few months later, it comes to a screeching halt. The SEC files a complaint against the company and calls it, quote, a classic Ponzi scheme. George is actually a pretty small fry at this company. His job is basically to bring in investors. So he isn't named in the SEC complaint or charged with anything. But he does get together with some other former employees and starts two new companies. One is a political consulting firm. We don't know what the other does, but we do know they call it the Devolder organization. Somehow it starts paying George millions of dollars. George never really explains anything about it. The closest he gets is in an interview with the publication Semaphore Saatchi. Can you read George's quote for me?

[Sachi Cole]

He says, what I will do is.

[Sarah Hagie]

I will go look out there within.

[Sachi Cole]

My rolodex and be like, hey, are you looking for a plane? Are you looking for a boat? I just put that feeler out there. If you're looking at a $20 million yacht, my referral fee there can be anywhere between $200,000 and $400,000. I don't know what this means.

[Sarah Hagie]

I think he's trying to explain it as like a rich person liaison of some sort. Oh, right. And he takes a commission. Probably.

[Sachi Cole]

Got it.

[Sarah Hagie]

That's the only closest to logical explanation I can think of. Okay.

[Sachi Cole]

Love this word salad. Really excited for us.

[Sarah Hagie]

Well, George does not respond to follow up questions about any of this. But later that year, the congressman that George lost to announces he won't be running for reelection. George seizes chance. With his questionable background in finance and a campaign guru by his side, he thinks he might actually have a shot. There's just one thing standing between him and a seat in congress.

[CookUnity/Quince Ad Voice]

The voters.

[Sarah Hagie]

By election night in November 2022, George is ready to celebrate in style. He spent the last 10 months campaigning like crazy. He's wearing a dark suit and a crisp white button down with no tie. He's the center of attention and is perfect. Poll numbers are actually pretty good. The Republicans are looking at a very slim majority in the House. They need George to win so he can flip his district. And this race has gone much better than the first one. For starters, he's no longer running against an incumbent. Since the last election, the district has been redrawn to include way more Republican voters. This time around, George got endorsements from a former governor of New York, the current Republican candidate for governor, and several police unions. He also held lots of events with rabbis in the heavily Jewish district. He actually told voters that he himself is Jewish. Fun fact, he isn't. But at the time, no one really questions it or any of George's other lies. A local newspaper called the North Shore leader did raise questions about George's finances, But the story didn't get much traction. The publisher of the paper noticed that George's campaign somehow managed to spend $11,000 on hotels during fundraising trips to Florida. Even though George was running for a congressional seat in New York. The publisher later tells cbs, he began.

[Narrator/Reporter]

To be known as George Skamtos among those who paid attention. My old campaign manager called me up out of the blue in the middle of this campaign and he said, grant, what is this? This is not a campaign, this is a beach party.

[Sachi Cole]

There's something really bleak about the fact.

[Sarah Hagie]

That there's like this little local paper.

[Sachi Cole]

That'S looking into him and actually investigating him and nobody else can hold him accountable.

[Sarah Hagie]

Yeah, it's super depressing. And George hasn't even been trying that hard to cover his tracks. At one point during his campaign, he hired a company to do a background check on him. Having people look into your own background is standard procedure for political candidates. But when they uncovered a bunch of his lies, including about his education and work histories, George just ended his contract with the company and ignored their report. Some of his aides found out and quit in protest. But they didn't blow the whistle on him publicly and it didn't affect his campaign at all. On election night, it takes a while for the returns to come in, But George's margin is looking better and better. And at some point, he realizes it's only a matter of time. Then, a little before midnight, a call comes in. His opponent is going to concede. George wins his election for real this time. He stands up on a stage and looks out at a sea of cameras and microphones all pointed right at him. He's the center of attention as he gives his big victory speech. And in the morning, he gets a real prize going. On television, George is finally getting national attention and adoration. But he's about to learn why they call it public office. His lies will soon come under more scrutiny than ever and the rest of the country will finally meet George Skamtos. It's just after the election and Grace Ashford is sitting at her desk at the New York Times office. Grace is about 30 years old, with short bleach, blonde hair and wide framed glasses. She's a reporter covering state and local politics and she's doing research for a story about newly elected congressman George Santos. When Grace looks into George's so called charity, Friends of Pets United, she can't find any record of it or anyone else who worked there. So she decides to talk to people who know George, starting with former colleagues. She calls Citibank and Goldman Sachs, two of the companies he supposedly worked for. They said he didn't. From there, it feels like every thread reveals another mystery. Grace and Michael start looking into the rest of George's background. And together the two reporters call George's office over and over and over again asking for comment. But he never responds. Eventually, they put together a primer on some of George's biggest lies. Their Investigation publishes on December 19, 2022, a little over a month after George won the election. And their article takes him from a no name, first term congressman to one of the most famous frauds in the world. The New York Times story is pretty damning. It establishes that George was lying about almost every detail of his biography, from his education to his job history to the property his family supposedly owned. His lies are seemingly so rampant that media outlets nickname him the Anna Delvey of Congress. Everyone wants to hear what George himself has to say. He waits a few days before he breaks his silence in an interview, but not with the New York Times. Instead, George talks to the New York Post, and he only really admits one that he lied about having gone to college. He says he didn't lie about working at Goldman and Citibank. He just misspoke. He says he should have said he did business with both groups. Shortly after, he agrees to a video interview with the news outlet. City and state.

[Narrator/Reporter]

I believe I used a poor word use of words, but I did work in the industry for a number of years. I did deliver on those negotiations. I did deliver on those relationships. I did do work with all the institutions.

[Sachi Cole]

I mean, the reality is it's like, who gives a shit? But he's just lying so much that now we have to relitigate his former employment. What a waste of time.

[Sarah Hagie]

I know. It really is insane. And George's explanations don't satisfy anyone except maybe himself. So reporters keep digging and it seems like every day they uncover a new lie. And then he produces a new wacky defense for it. This period is so chaotic, it would be impossible to do a straightforward account of all the lies. Instead, I'm going to read you some news headlines and give you the highlights, starting with a classic from Reuters. Embattled Republican George Santos faces new heat over Jewish heritage claim.

[Sachi Cole]

I remember this. This was some of his best work.

[Sarah Hagie]

Yeah, he was telling everyone in his district that he was Jewish. He actually took it a step further and claimed that his grandparents were Holocaust survivors who fled Ukraine for Brazil. But when reporters started fact checking, they found that George's grandparents were born and raised in Brazil and baptized Catholics. When they ask him for comment, George says that he was joking about being Jewish. But he also once referred to himself in writing as a, quote, proud American Jew. And just a few days after he was elected, he described himself to the publication Jewish Insider as one of the few Jewish members of Congress.

[Sachi Cole]

Would it not have just been easier for him to lie and say he converted? That is a lot harder to fact check.

[Sarah Hagie]

A lot harder. Also, George faces new questions about an interview he did with the radio station WNYC right after he got elected. In the interview, he was asked whether he thinks the Republican Party encourages anti LGBTQ sentiments. And in his response, he makes a shocking claim.

[Narrator/Reporter]

I condemn what happened in Colorado. Just much like Pulse at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando in 2016. My company at the time, we lost four employees that were. That were at Pulse nightclub.

[Sarah Hagie]

I mean, that would be tragic if it were true. Grace and her colleague at the New York Times investigate this as a part of their first piece about George. And they find no connection between any of his companies and the victims of the Pulse shooting. George tries to defend himself by saying that actually the victims were just in the process of being hired when they were murdered. Of course, none of the victims families have come forward to defend George's claim. A mother who lost a child to the Pulse shooting even says that she has tried to learn everything she can about the victims, including their employment history, and she's certain that none of them had any connection to George. But Sachi, this last one is a doozy. Okay, In July of 2021, George tweeted, quote, 9 11, claimed my mother's life. But five months later, he tweeted about the fifth anniversary of his mother's death, which means it would have happened in 2016.

[Sachi Cole]

I'm sure he meant it metaphorically.

[Sarah Hagie]

George claims that everyone else just misunderstood. His mother, Fatimah had been working at the World Trade center on 911 and she later died of cancer stemming from the dust she inhaled at ground zero. So by this logic, she didn't die on 9 11, but she did die because of 9 11. Okay, great. See, I was right.

[Sachi Cole]

I understand him.

[Sarah Hagie]

You've been George pilled. Okay. The New York Times reviews Fatima's immigration documents and finds that she claimed she lived in Brazil from 1999 to 2003. One of the documents was actually filed from Brazil just a few months before 9 11. You might expect George to dig deeper with a new lie, but it seems like this is the point where he just decides to give up. Sort of. Here he is trying to change a subject on Piers Morgan.

[Narrator/Reporter]

The way that I look at this, and I've rested this case before, and respectfully, please, I won't debate my mother's life as she's passed in 16. And I think it's quite insensitive for everybody to want to rehash my mother's legacy.

[Sachi Cole]

I mean, if you have to talk to Piers Morgan, you've already lost. So I don't even know what else to say about this little performance.

[Sarah Hagie]

Yeah. But also, don't ask about his mom dying in 911 because he doesn't want to talk about it even though he's tweeted about it.

[Sachi Cole]

Don't ask me about this thing that.

[Sarah Hagie]

I'm talking about all the time. Well, I mean, these aren't the only examples of George's lies. We haven't even gotten to his claims that he was a volleyball star or that he had a brain tumor and then he had to get both of his knees replaced. But we have to keep moving. George has had a very eventful 15 minutes of fame, but his time in the national spotlight isn't over because it doesn't matter what he did to get there. Mr. Santos is going to Washington.

[Anna Richardson]

The town of Agda in France is famous for sun, sand, sea and sex. But lately, life on the coast has taken a strange turn. The town's mayor, a respected pillar of the community, has been arrested for corruption. His wife claims he's been bewitched by a beautiful clairvoyant. Then there's the mysterious phone calls that local people have been getting.

[Narrator/Reporter]

I am the Archangel Michael.

[Anna Richardson]

The whole town has been thrown into.

[Sarah Hagie]

Chaos as the mayor is unable to carry out his duties. I would like to address you. All legal proceedings have been initiated.

[Anna Richardson]

Join me, Anna Richardson and journalist Leo Chic for the mystic and the Mayor as we investigate a story of power, corruption and magic. Binge all episodes of the mystic and the Mayor exclusively and ad free right now on Wonder Plus. Start your free trial in Apple podcasts, Spotify or the Wondery app.

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[Sarah Hagie]

I feel like a legend. It's early January 2023, and George is wandering the halls of the US Capitol building. He's just been sworn into office, and with his lies out in the open, he's become the most talked about member of Congress. He's got a backpack on and wearing his usual blue sweater and blazer. But as he tries to find his new new office, he can't escape the hordes of reporters and camera crews shouting questions at him. Do you have any statements to your constituents? Though he might be an embarrassment, George was essential in helping the Republican Party win a very small majority in Congress. Now he's one of the crucial votes allowing Kevin McCarthy to become speaker of the House. Kevin seemingly repays George's loyalty when reporters ask him about George's lies. Kevin says he wants to respect the will of the people who voted for George. But given all of that outrage over his fake resume and his mysterious finances, George decides to voluntarily step down from all of his committee assignments, which means that he actually doesn't have much to do. He manages to co sponsor one bill which cracks down on scammers who defrauded the pandemic unemployment assistance program, but that's about it.

[Sachi Cole]

I bet he really understood what was happening there.

[Sarah Hagie]

Yeah, I'm sure he was very passionate about fraud. Yeah. And then about a month into his time as an elected official, George attends a State of the Union address. It's one of the biggest nights in D.C. with tons of press on hand to cover President Biden's speech. If you want to remind everyone that, hey, I'm in Congress, this is the night. So George seats himself front and center. And when President Biden comes down onto the Senate floor, George is milling around behind him, making sure to see and be seen, especially by photographers. Not everyone is a fan of George's pageantry. Utah Senator Mitt Romney, understandably, would rather not have this guy be the face of the party. So he calls him out directly, telling George, you don't belong here. George tweets at Mitt later, and their exchange becomes almost as big a piece of news as Biden's speech. George has proven he can win fights with some big players. Democratic politicians, Republican leadership, and even former presidential candidates. But soon he'll encounter an enemy he can't out snark the Department of justice. It's May 2023, about four months into George's term. He walks out of the darkness of a Long island courthouse and into a bright spring afternoon. He's dressed in his usual preppy style, with a navy sweater under a navy suit jacket and classic Ray Ban wayfarers. He's surrounded by a scrum of reporters. The U.S. attorney's office for the Eastern District of New York has just charged him with 13 felonies, including wire fraud, money laundering, stealing public figures funds, and lying on federal disclosure forms. The attorney's office alleges that George received $24,000 in pandemic unemployment assistance that he applied for when he was not, in fact, unemployed.

[Sachi Cole]

If I wrote in a piece of fiction that the only thing this guy did in Congress was support a bill that would stop scammers from taking advantage of pandemic unemployment assistance, that he then takes advantage of pandemic unemployment assistance, an editor would be like, it's a little. A little silly, don't you think? Little rote.

[Sarah Hagie]

It is really funny. That comes back to bite him in the ass.

[Sachi Cole]

It is funny.

[Sarah Hagie]

The indictment also alleges that George lied about his income on his 2022 congressional disclosure forms and that he defrauded his own donors. His campaign allegedly told donors that their contributions were going to George's super pac, but instead, that money went straight to George's company. The government says he spent it on designer clothing and paying off his car and credit card bills. Speaking to reporters outside the courthouse, George insists that none of this is true. In fact, he starts off his comments by saying he's the subject of a witch hunt. He says he doesn't understand where the government is getting its information and that there must be some kind of misunderstanding. He claims he has plenty of evidence that the media hasn't seen yet, evidence that will acquit him. But most importantly, he tells them he's not stepping down. In fact, he says, are you planning.

[Sachi Cole]

On running for reelection?

[Narrator/Reporter]

Yes, I am.

[Sarah Hagie]

Somehow, the story isn't over yet. Hope springs eternal. And George is hoping his improbable rise to power will keep him in the limelight for just a little while longer. In early October, five months after he was first indicted, things get even more serious for George. First, his campaign treasurer, Nancy, pleads guilty to a felony count of conspiracy to defraud the US Government. She Confesses to falsifying the numbers related to George's campaign finances and to repeatedly making untrue statements about him. Her guilty plea also answers a lot of questions we still had about George, Namely, where his money came from. Nancy admits that she helped George lie to the Federal Election Commission, creating a fake $500,000 loan to his campaign. This money didn't come from a shady donor. It never existed. George only had $8,000 in his bank account when he supposedly made the loan. Nancy says she and George also made up donations from several of their own family members. Sure, there was no way for George and Nancy to actually use this fake money, but reporting the donations meant that they could get additional support from the Republican National Committee. Nancy faces up to four years in prison for her role in Georgia City scheme. Then, just a few days after Nancy pleads guilty, George gets hit with another indictment. This time, he's facing 10 additional federal charges. And this indictment offers even more clues about the true source of George's money. It turns out a lot of it did come from donors, but they didn't willingly donate tens of thousands of dollars. Prosecutors allege that George stole it from them using their credit cards without their authorization. The government also alleges that George stole $50,000 from two of his donors under the guise of a bogus nonprofit. Once again, George declines to comment on the charges, saying only that he has no plans to resign. Perfect.

[Sachi Cole]

That sounds exactly right.

[Sarah Hagie]

It's incredible. George might be hoping to hold onto his seat to avoid legal consequences, but he's already facing a slew of opponents. And the same day, the new charges come down. The incumbent he lost to in 2020 announces that he's going to run for the seat George has been scamming non stop since he wrote those fake checks 15 years ago. But it looks like the balance is finally going to come due. Okay, Sachi, just a couple of last updates before we wrap this story up. The biggest is that one of George's aides pleads guilty to wire fraud. He had pretended to be a House staffer on fundraising calls, and it seems like he might be planning to flip on George. But George, of course, is still saying that he hasn't done anything wrong. He pleaded not guilty to the charges in the last indictment, and he also manages to keep his job even after some of his colleagues try to expel him from Congress. They end up just not getting enough votes. Meanwhile, George actually calls Grace, the New York Times reporter, and agrees to talk to her. He says he was manipulated by Nancy, his former campaign treasurer. And that all of the charges he's facing are her fault. He also alleges that his five year old niece was kidnapped by the Chinese government. I should also note that his niece is not the baby he was mysteriously carrying around Congress during a screaming match with a pro Palestine activist. Okay, cool. Oh, and new reporting in a book called the Fabulist reveals that George might have used his mother's death as an opportunity to collect money from his local church before stiffing the funeral home. And then in mid November, the House Committee on Ethics released a report saying there is, quote, substantial evidence that George uses campaign funds for personal purposes, like for example, Botox and OnlyFans. The very next day, George says he won't seek reelection next year. That is if he doesn't get expelled from Congress first, which could very well happen by the time this episode airs.

[Sachi Cole]

I really wish we could take people under the hood of this episode so.

[Sarah Hagie]

They could know how many times we.

[Sachi Cole]

Had to update it because he just kept saying things.

[Sarah Hagie]

Sachi, what can you even say about this? I mean, it's an ongoing scam and there are so many questions and mainly I'm just kind of like, what does he want from all of this?

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah, I mean, it doesn't seem like he's accumulated much power in any direction. He doesn't seem to have that much money. The amount of money he stole, though significant, is not like it's nothing compared to some of the other financial scams we've talked about. He doesn't seem to have a lot of political power. He's constantly in trouble. Nobody believes any of his lies. It's not like any of this has served him in any way. But he keeps doing it. It's like he's in too deep now. He can't, you know, just admit it and move on.

[Sarah Hagie]

Why do you think he wants to be in Congress and have power?

[Sachi Cole]

I think he just loves attention and I think he's trying to find it in whatever way he can. Cause if you look at his background, like it's all just about sor of getting people to look at him. And he is so similar to some of the other scammers we've talked about where they traffic in like the bad news about themselves and they think that'll get them affection and respect and care and that people will listen to them and that it gives them a kind of authority. Like it's not enough to just have a dead mom. His mom has to be dead from cancer from 9 11. Like it's not enough that he has this background as an immigrant and with his family and that he's queer. Well, he also has to be. Like he had employees at the Pulse nightclub shooting.

[Sarah Hagie]

Like, it, it's.

[Sachi Cole]

He just needs to be at the center of everything.

[Sarah Hagie]

It seems like he really wants to have more of a tragic life than he clearly already has. You know, I think being a scam.

[Sachi Cole]

Artist and hinging your scam on people, feeling sorry for you and having had a bad life when it's a lie is really unfair because some people do have bad lives.

[Sarah Hagie]

If you're gonna be full of, you.

[Sachi Cole]

Should lie in the other direction. It should be about, like, how amazing your life is and how everything's worked out and how you've never had anything bad happen to you ever. That's what I would do.

[Sarah Hagie]

I think that is the perfect lesson here.

[Sachi Cole]

That's my platform for Congress, which I will be running for in the next election.

[Sarah Hagie]

That's why I'm voting for you in spirit.

[Sachi Cole]

Loving scamflancers get exclusive episodes and early access to new ones. All ad free on Wondri. Join now in the Wondry app, Apple podcasts or Spotify. Before you go, help us out by taking a quick [e-mail] survey.

[Sarah Hagie]

This is George Santos putting the con in Congress. I'm Sarah Hagke.

[Sachi Cole]

And I'm Sachi Cole. If you have a tip for us on a story that you think we should cover, please email us at. End of the day, the scamflancersundry.com and a reminder that our Scamflancers merch store is live. Now. You can find everything from comfy hoodies and joggers to phone cases and [e-mail] Tell your friends we can match. We use many sources in our research. A few that were particularly helpful were Grace Ashford and Michael Gold's reporting for the New York Times, local reporting in the North Shore Ledger and Patch New York and campaign of deceit, the election of George Santos. Produced by Andrew Bast, Michael Kaplan, Jessica Kagu, Erica Brown and Chrissy Halliwell for CBS Reports.

[Sarah Hagie]

Zan Romanoff wrote this episode. Additional writing by U.S. sachi Cole and Sarah Hagie. Our senior producer is Jen Swan. Our producer is John Reed. Our associate producers are Charlotte Miller and Lexi Piri. Our story editor and producer is Sarah Enny. Eric Thurm is our student story editor. Sound design is by James Morgan. Fact checking by Gabrielle Drollet. Additional audio assistance provided by Adrian Tapia. Our music supervisor is Scott Velasquez. For freeson Sync Our coordinating producer is Desi Blaylock, our managing producer is Matt Gant and our senior managing producer is Ryan Lohr. Kate Young and Olivia Richard are our series producers. Our senior story editor is Rachel B. Doyle. Our senior producer is Ginny Blume. Our executive producers are Jeanine Cornello, Stephanie Jens, Jenny Lauer, Beckman and Marshall Louie. For Wondery.

[Narrator/Reporter]

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