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- [00:00]
Sarah Hagie
Hey there, Scamfluencers fans want to be the first to know how these wild scams unfold. Join us on Patreon to get early access to episodes, ad free listening and exclusive content that reveals even more of the drama. Just search for Scamfluencers on Patreon and dive deeper into the scandal. Sachi, what would you do if a personal drama got so out of hand it ended up involving the Prime Minister?
- [00:33]
Sachi Kol
I have endeavored for my personal dramas to end up on the Prime Minister's desk. I think I've gotten pretty close.
- [00:40]
Sarah Hagie
Yeah. That's why, honestly, I'd be impressed and I wouldn't be totally surprised at all.
- [00:45]
Sachi Kol
I think he knows who I am and I think he doesn't want to admit it. And I understand the impulse.
- [00:50]
Sarah Hagie
Yeah, if you guys saw each other on the street, he would like, avert his eyes.
- [00:53]
Sachi Kol
I mean, so would I.
- [00:54]
Sarah Hagie
So would I. Well, last week we talked talked about how novelist and photographer Francoise Marie Beignet became best friends with billionaire L'Oreal heiress Lilliane Betancourt. Only Lilliane's daughter was not so happy about it. She feels like her inheritance might be at risk. And this week we're going to hear about how this family feud spills into the public sphere in the most French way possible. It's late December 2007, in the suburbs of Paris. Olivier Metzner is smoking a cigar in the backseat of a Jaguar. Olivier is in his late 50s and is one of France's most feared criminal attorneys. He's got silver hair, glasses and a face deeply lined from frowning at his legal opponents. Today, his driver is taking him to the office of a state prosecutor. We've actually met Olivier before Saatchi. He was a lawyer and lover of Alexandre Despalier from our death becomes him episode. But now Olivier's working on one of the trickiest and most sensitive cases of his career. That's actually why he's here today. The situation is so delicate that he wants to hand deliver the documents to the prosecutor himself. Olivier sits across from the prosecutor and lays a thick stack of legal documents on the desk. Between them, he explains the basic. A woman thinks her mom is suffering from dementia and being financially abused by a man posing as her friend. So she's suing the man, a high profile photographer named Francois Marie Bagnet, for the harm he's caused. But what makes this case so sensitive is the victim, Lilliane Betancourt, the heiress to the L'Oreal fortune and the richest woman in the world. Olivier has testimonies from several of the family's staff members, who all insist that Francois Marie is extorting Lilliane. With so many accusations and a detailed accounting of the hundreds of millions of dollars Lilliane has given to Francois Marie, Olivier thinks he has a slam dunk case. But like most French things, it is complicated because Lilliane insists she's not a victim. She says Francois Marie is her best friend. She wants to share her wealth with him. And while some people think she's suffering from dementia, there's no hard proof, partially because Lillian is refusing medical exams.
- [03:28]
Sachi Kol
This is tough because I feel like if a bunch of people told me I was nuts and I needed to see a doctor, I would also be like, I'm not seeing that doctor.
- [03:36]
Sarah Hagie
Yeah, it's really tricky. It's a true gray zone. Well, Olivier leaves a prosecutor's office feeling confident, but what he doesn't know is that his his legal dossier is going to ignite one of the biggest, messiest legal firestorms France has ever seen. As the story unravels, he'll find himself investigating not only a photographer, but also some of France's most powerful politicians. This petty family feud is about to lead to dramatic double crosses that will upend France's political landscape and land more than one person in prison. Ready to electrify your drive? Hyundai's cutting edge EV lineup is about to change everything you thought you knew about electric vehicles. Prepare to be captivated by a range that's as bold as it is brilliant. From the lightning fast Ioniq 5 and Ioniq 6 charging from 10 to 80% in a mere 18 minutes to the tech packed cabins boasting highway driving assist and blind spot collision warning, Hyundai EVs are redefining the electric experience. And with America's best warranty, including a 10 year, 100,000mile limited electric battery warranty, you'll drive with unmatched confidence. Hyundai's EVs aren't just the future, they're the now you've been waiting for. Learn more about Hyundai's EVs at HyundaiUSA.com call 562-314-4603 for complete details. America's best warranty claim based on total package of warranty programs. See dealer for limited warranty details. See your Hyundai dealer for further details and limitations.
- [05:19]
Eduit Planel
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- [05:51]
Sarah Hagie
From Wondery I'm Sarah Hagie. And I'm Sachi Kol and this is Scamfluencers. Come and give me your attention. I won't ever learn my lesson. Turn my speakers to 11 I feel like a legend in part one Francois Marie Bagnet and Lilliane Betancourt began a decades long friendship full of art and lavish gifts. But this didn't sit well with Lilliane's daughter, leading to a dispute over money, inheritance and power. Now, with one of the country's most influential families locked in a standoff, people start to pick sides. The power struggle inside Lillian's mansion quickly becomes a national scandal, dominating headlines and upending the political order in France. And soon an opportunistic photographer will be the least of Lillian Betancourt's troubles. I'm calling this Francois Marie the French Connection Part 2 It's January 2008 in the Betancourt mansion outside Paris. 85 year old Lilliane is sitting in bed when Pascal, the family butler, knocks on her door. He walks in and hands her a letter from her daughter, Francoise. Lillian tears the letter open and as she starts to read, her jaw drops. In the letter, Francoise details the legal action she's taking against her mother's best friend, the now 60 year old photographer Francois Marie Beignet. But this isn't a simple civil lawsuit, it's a criminal one. And if Francois Marie is found guilty, he could get three years in prison, but plus a fine of nearly €400,000. Lilliane feels betrayed because this isn't just coming from her daughter. Seven family staff members gave witness testimonies supporting Francoise's claims. Now Lilliane's own employees are moving against her. Lilliane takes a deep breath and keeps reading. Francoise, her daughter, writes that Francois Marie is only pretending to be Lilliane's friend for financial gain. She accuses him of willfully isolating Lillian from her family. She adds that allegedly a maid recently overheard Francois Marie asking the billionaire to adopt him. And this is what Francoise finds most concerning. She signs a letter your daughter who loves you.
- [08:16]
Sachi Kol
Didn't we talk about this adoption in the last episode? Like, did this actually happen between the two of them?
- [08:22]
Sarah Hagie
Lillian and Francois Marie both deny that any talk of adoption ever took place. So Lilliane is furious. She's known for years that Francoise is jealous of her friendship with Francois Marie. She also knows that some staff members think he's rude, but she doesn't care. He's everything to her. And regardless of what people think, she still has autonomy over her choices. She has every right to give gifts to a friend who stood by her for 20 years. Lilliane goes to her desk and writes a furious reply in her signature green ink. She tells her daughter how much this friendship means to her and how much it also meant to her late husband, Andre. She ends by telling Francoise that, quote, a suit against Francois Marie is a suit against me. In a follow up letter, Lilliane is even more riled up and she starts making threats. If Francoise moves forward with a lawsuit, Lilliane will take back some of the L'Oreal stock she set aside for Francoise and her children. She continues to insist that Francoise Marie is important to her beyond measure, saying, quote, it's thanks to him that I did not remain locked in the conventional milieu that I seemed destined to by my situation and fortune. She closes the letter by calling it her final warning.
- [09:41]
Sachi Kol
I mean, I guess Lilliane doesn't know who to trust. Like, everybody wants something from her and she must feel like, okay, but this is someone who wants something from me. Sure, but I enjoy spending time with them and I'm happy to give it to them.
- [09:54]
Sarah Hagie
Yeah, I feel like it's so complicated and so overblown. But Lilliane is not done. She starts another letter, this time addressing it to the prosecutor overseeing the case. She urges him to stop the proceedings, stating that her daughter is just jealous and that the gifts she's made to Francois Marie are totally reasonable when compared to the size of her fortune, which is around 17 billion euros in 2008. She also encloses letters from two doctors who agree she's of sound mind. Lilliane is determined to prove that her friendship with Francis Francois Marie is healing her, not hurting her. But even the power of friendship isn't enough to stop an investigation. And soon Francois Marie will have a bigger authority to prove his good intentions to the police. A few weeks after Lilliane and her daughter exchanged tense letters, Francois Marie is lying in bed. He still lives in the building in Paris that Lilliane bought for him 14 years ago. And even though it's 6am the doorbell rings. At first, he thinks it's a bad dream. He's been having trouble sleeping since Lilliane first told him about her daughter's lawsuit a few weeks ago. But then the doorbell rings again. And a fist pounds at the door. And then he hears a loud voice. It's the police. Still half asleep, Francois Marie opens the door to his apartment. A dozen police officers file in. They're looking for evidence of the gifts Le Lyen has given him over the years. Francois Marie can only watch as they rifle through his apartment for 12 hours. They seize anything that could help their investigation. Receipts, personal journals, and all his written correspondence with Liliane. By Francois Marie's estimate, they've written thousands of letters over the years.
- [11:51]
Sachi Kol
This is like the old world equivalent of my nightmare, which is getting stuck in a lawsuit and all of my texts ending up in a public record search. Except I guess these letters could land them in jail. But I also think my texts could land me in prison.
- [12:05]
Sarah Hagie
Um, mine couldn't. Just to be on the record, yours could. Francois Marie likely hasn't seen much of Francoise's since the tense family lunch they both attended 15 years ago. He knows that she still hates him. Lilliane shared details of their arguments over the years. He's had an inkling that the staff dislikes him, too. They're always giving him the side eye for things like laying in Lillian's bed with his shoes on and urinating in the flower beds outside the mansion. Maybe it's not so crazy that they find him rude, but there's one saving grace. Lilliane is sticking by him. She's been keeping him in the loop from the moment she learned about the lawsuit herself. Now it feels like it's Francois Marie and Lilliane against the world. It's December of 2008, and Lilliane is traveling somewhere in the U.S. we're not sure where, but I'm sure she's staying in the fanciest hotel room in town. When she wakes up, it's to her worst nightmare. The police report on her financial relationship with Francois Marie has leaked and it's on the front page of French news magazine the Point. Investigators have discovered that between 2001 and 2007, Lilliane gave Francois Marie gifts valued at nearly 1 billion euros. Things like artwork, cash and real estate. She's also made him the beneficiary of several life insurance policies. The media's having a field day and having fun making L'Oreal related puns with headlines like because he's worth it. And they're including every little detail. The many gifts, the mother daughter tension, and Lillian's insistence that she's sound of mind. Francoise is painted as a jealous, power hungry daughter, Francois Marie as a conniving crook, and Lilliane a batty old woman with so much money, she doesn't know what to do with it. No one quite knows how it leaked, but the report is everywhere. Even international outlets are reporting on it.
- [14:14]
Sachi Kol
What's so interesting about the coverage of this case is that nobody is, like, the good guy. Like, they don't think that her daughter is trying to protect her from this scam artist. They think that she is, like, stupid for not knowing how to keep track of her money. Like, people don't seem to feel like anybody is worth any empathy in this story.
- [14:35]
Sarah Hagie
I know. It's really, like, one of those things where you really can't believe it's gotten to this point. And how could there possibly be a winner in any of this? Well, Lilliane immediately jumps into action. She does an interview with a French newspaper, the Journal du Dimanche, and takes this opportunity to make some direct digs at her daughter. In one interview, she tells reporters that Francoise is a deeply jealous woman and that her legal actions are, quote, sheer meanness. Can you read the last quote from this article?
- [15:09]
Sachi Kol
Yeah. She said, quote, I don't see my daughter anymore, and I don't wish to. For me, my daughter has become something inert. Oh, God.
- [15:18]
Sarah Hagie
I know.
- [15:19]
Sachi Kol
Ugh, moms.
- [15:21]
Sarah Hagie
It's so sad, so mean. I find it just so insane to hear a mother talk about her daughter like this.
- [15:28]
Sachi Kol
Yeah, all over. Some guy, some gay guy.
- [15:32]
Sarah Hagie
Yeah, it's truly depressing. And the way Lilliane sees it, her daughter is twisting reality to avoid sharing the L'Oreal fortune. Lilliane hates being the center of attention in the press, and she's eager for this whole thing to die down. But before long, there'll be a second, bigger leak, and nothing can prepare her for the backlash that will follow. It's May 2009, five months after the details of the Francois Marie investigation were leaked to the press. In the Betancourt mansion, Pascal Bonnefoy, the family butler, is preparing a tray of snacks and drinks for Lilliane's upcoming meeting. Pascal is handsome, with graying hair and dark brown eyes. Pascal has been working as a family butler since 1989, a solid 20 years now. But today, he's doing things a little differently. As Lillian prepares to meet with her financial advisor, Pascal stocks a tray with lemon slices and a cold bottle of Perrier. He wheels the cart into the living room, and as he's setting up the spread, he sets a small felt covered item on a nearby bureau. A recording device. Pascal cares deeply about protecting the family that has employed him for so long. He doesn't trust Francois Marie and he's noticed that the investigation is stalling. So he figures he can help by secretly recording all of Lilliane's meetings until she says something damning about her so called friend. I want to point out that this is illegal. France has strict laws about the invasion of privacy, but Pascal figures it's worth the risk.
- [17:13]
Sachi Kol
It seems absurd to me that this guy is so loyal to this family, to this rich family, that he's like, I'm going to put in place all these kind of extravagant steps to do something illegal because he wants to, I guess, protect the wealth of the family.
- [17:34]
Sarah Hagie
Yeah, it's an insane mindset to think this is normal. You're a butler for a woman for 20 years, she is the richest woman in the world and you care so much about her wealth that you're willing to break the law and try and prove that someone's using her. In my mind, I'm just kind of like, let these rich people fight anyway. As Pascal rolls his cart into the room, he works hard to keep his hands from shaking. He knows that if he gets caught, he'll lose this job. Since the investigation started, Lilliane's fired staff members who testify against Francois Marie, and she's wary of her remaining staffers. But he needs to do this for Lilliane. Pascal pours the financial advisor a Perrier and drops a sugar cube into Lilliane's tea. And then he leaves. As the recorder starts to roll, Pascal starts doing this for as many of Lilliane's meetings as he can. She doesn't often have formal sit downs with Francois Marie himself. They usually hang out in her bedroom where she's most comfortable. So Pascal just has to hope that eventually Francois Marie will come up in one of these conversations. Finally, in May of 2010, a year into making these recordings, Pascal manages to record a conversation between the billionaire and the photographer. And he decides he has what he needs. He hands over 20 hours of recording to Francoise, who allegedly had no idea that the butler had been doing his own espionage. Pascal simply says that she should do whatever she wants with them and hopes they're helpful.
- [19:13]
Sachi Kol
It seems to me like this woman does not have anyone around her that she can really trust. Because even if you know the butler is doing something that's like, in service to her or he's being loyal to her, it's still going against what she has said she wants.
- [19:30]
Sarah Hagie
There's no way this will end well for him. But Pascal is proud of himself. He's taken matters into his own hands. And it's his last act as the Betancourt family butler. After 20 years of service, he's leaving his post. He knows that Francoise is sending the tapes to a lawyer. And he believes Francois Marie will finally be caught. Pascal is convinced he did the right thing. But what he captured on the tapes goes far beyond Lilliane's relationship with Francois Marie. And it won't be long until these private, illegal recordings make their way into the world. And when this happens, the Betancourt family will long for the days when Francois Marie was their biggest problem.
- [20:14]
Sachi Kol
Foreign.
- [20:19]
Sarah Hagie
Vacation season is nearly upon us. So it's the perfect time for you to treat yourself to the luxe upgrades you deserve. And Quints is the place to do it. They have high quality travel essentials at fair prices.
- [20:30]
Sachi Kol
Yep. Like lightweight European linen styles from $30. Washable silk tops and comfy lounge sets. Plus premium luggage options and stylish tote bags to carry it all.
- [20:40]
Sarah Hagie
The best part, all quince Items are priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands.
- [20:45]
Sachi Kol
Do you know how I was in the desert last weekend?
- [20:47]
Sarah Hagie
Yeah. Jealous.
- [20:48]
Sachi Kol
I know. Well, I was staying with my friend and I was staying in her guest bedroom and she actually had quince sheets. They were so comfortable. They were so soft. They were cool. They were warm. They were everything. Sarah, they're everything you want in the desert.
- [21:00]
Sarah Hagie
You know what? I've been hearing so much about the sheets. Gotta get them. For your next trip, treat yourself to the luxe upgrades you deserve from quints. Go to quint.com scampod for 365 day returns plus free shipping on your order.
- [21:13]
Sachi Kol
That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com scampod to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com scampod okay, let's be real. With everything getting more expensive these days, the last thing any of us needs is credit card debt piling up. But here's the thing. You still need to build good credit to get ahead in life. Whether you're dreaming about that family vacation, hoping to buy a home someday, or just trying to land that perfect apartment rental, your credit score matters.
- [21:38]
Sarah Hagie
That's why we are excited about Chime's credit builder Visa card. There's no annual fees, no interest and no credit check required to apply. You just use money you set aside to build credit with your everyday purchases.
- [21:51]
Sachi Kol
You can use it anywhere. Visa is accepted.
- [21:53]
Sarah Hagie
And if you need a little cushion, Chime's got your back with Spotme. They'll cover you up to $200 in overdrafts with no fees when you set up qualifying direct deposits.
- [22:03]
Sachi Kol
Turn your everyday purchases and on time payments into steps towards your financial goals with Chime's secured Credit Builder Visa credit card. Get started today@chime.com scampod that's chime.com scampod Chime feels like progress.
- [22:17]
Sarah Hagie
The Chime Credit Builder Visa credit card is issued by the Bancorp Bank NA or Stride bank na. Spot ME eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Chime checking account required to apply out of network ATM withdrawal and OTC advance fees may apply. Timing depends on submission of payment file. Late payment may negatively impact your credit score. Results may vary. Go to chime.com disclosures for more details. I feel like it's June 2010 in the newsroom for media part an independent French investigative news site, journalist and co founder Eduit Planel is sitting at his desk. Eduit is in his late 50s. He has a thick head of dark hair, a bushy mustache and a sly grin. When his phone rings, he recognizes the voice of a familiar source. The source has a huge scoop secret recordings that might be of interest to Edwy's reporters. The prosecutor and investigators just received them. Would Edvi like a copy?
- [23:27]
Sachi Kol
I can't think of a phone call I'd want more. As a journalist, I would get such a boner from this phone call.
- [23:34]
Sarah Hagie
You know in cartoons when they trap someone by like putting something like it's like the stick with the box and then it's like recordings. That's how we'd get you.
- [23:42]
Sachi Kol
This is a bunch of leaves over an endless hole, correct?
- [23:47]
Sarah Hagie
Well, Edui feels the same way. And before long, Edui and his colleagues are combing through more than 20 CD ROMs with hours of Liliane Bettencourt's private meetings. EDUIS already aware of all the drama surrounding the heiress and the photographer, and he's not particularly interested. It seems more like a petty mother daughter feud fit for tabloids and gossip rags. As an investigative news outlet, mediapart is more interested in exposing shady dealings with France's top politicians. Still, L'Oreal is the world's biggest cosmetics group and France's most profitable company, and the Betancourts have significant political ties. Eduis and his colleagues listen to the recordings just in case there's something interesting. And soon the whole newsroom is buzzing because this is way more than a tabloid story. They've just been handed the most explosive political scoop in recent history. Eduille listens as Lilliane's lead financial advisor, Patrice de Maistre, talks to her about offshore bank accounts. Lilliane and Patrice seem to be conspiring to hide 100 million euros in Swiss bank accounts to avoid being taxed. And according to the tapes, France's finance minister, Eric Wirth, seems to have been bribed to turn a blind eye to it all. As a budget minister, Wirth's whole job is basically to be the country's accountant. He should be making sure that nothing fishy is going on. But it seems like he got a little too cozy with Lilliane and her fortune. The tapes imply that in return for ignoring their tax evasion, Patrice hired Vert's wife to work on the Lian staff as another personal financial advisor. In one recording, Patrice even says outright that he hired her as a favor to Wirt. This is a huge conflict of interest. The tax watchdog for France and a financial manager for France's biggest taxpayer shouldn't even be friends, let alone married. But there's more. The tapes also include plans to make huge donations to France's top governing politicians, including President Nicholas Sarkozy. When you put it all together, it sure seems like a political party is taking bribes and donations in return for not looking too closely at a billionaire's taxes.
- [26:11]
Sachi Kol
I love this, Sarah. This feels like the exact right conclusion that should happen because you can't get your little family squabble sorted.
- [26:20]
Sarah Hagie
This is all because she was friends with a rude gay guy. It is insane.
- [26:28]
Sachi Kol
I love it.
- [26:29]
Sarah Hagie
And most alarmingly, there are plenty of moments in the tapes where Patrice speaks to Lilliane as though she's a child. She often seems lost, like she doesn't really understand what's going on. These moments signal that Lilliane isn't always as sharp and present as she is in her press appearances. The butler was trying to find instances of abuse, and it seems like he found them, but from her money manager, not her longtime best friend.
- [26:58]
Sachi Kol
Oh, dark. I guess it makes sense. It did seem like somebody had to be financially abusing her in some way just because she was too moneyed and too old for that not to be happening. But I guess it makes sense that it is quite obviously the person handling her money.
- [27:14]
Sarah Hagie
Yes, and Edwin knows that what he has on these tapes is huge. Mediapart is a small outlet. It's entirely subscriber funded, and EDUI only launched it two years ago. This story could change his and his staff members lives. But he knows he's not the only journalist who got these tapes, so he has to act fast. After spending a Few days pouring through the recordings, they're finally ready. The media part. Journalists hold their breath as a hit publish and the story goes live on their website, detailing the juiciest parts of the butler's tapes. They move so quickly that the story is public before investigators have even listened to the tapes themselves. The story spreads like wildfire across France. Within hours, it's getting picked up by just about every news outlet in the country. And after years of having the French media dissect his relationship with Lilliane, Francois Marie is about to watch them shift their focus onto some bigger targets. Just hours after Ed Wee and his colleagues hit publish, 62 year old Francois Marie is walking home, camera in hand. For decades, he's taken long walks to photograph strangers and buildings. It helps him unwind, which he desperately needs right now. In just two weeks, the long awaited trial that Francoise initiated against him a few years ago will finally take place. Since the initial panic a few years ago, Francois Marie's life has mostly returned to normal. He and Lilliane still hang out all the time, though now they tend to dine at Lilliane's mansion instead of their usual lavish restaurants and cafes. And Francois Marie's work is still very much in demand. Just last year, he photographed the COVID of Vanity Fair. It was a giant story with a big accompanying photo shoot all about his good friend Johnny Depp.
- [29:13]
Sachi Kol
Ugh, Beetlejuice.
- [29:15]
Sarah Hagie
Remember this is 2010.
- [29:16]
Sachi Kol
Yeah, it was like, right bumping up against it, I guess. Yes, he was still unshowered.
- [29:22]
Sarah Hagie
Yeah, he was still wearing all those scarves. So disgusting.
- [29:26]
Sachi Kol
So many necklaces.
- [29:28]
Sarah Hagie
When Francois Marie walks into his apartment, the phone is ringing. It's Lilliane. She's so panicked, he's barely able to register what she's saying to him. Finally, he makes out her plea for him to turn on the news. Francois Marie clicks on the TV and immediately hears Lilliane's name. He's certain they'll start talking about his upcoming court appearance. But to his surprise, he's not even mentioned. That morning, Mediapart published their first article about the butler's tapes, along with part of the audio. And France is reeling. Francois Marie listens in shock as journalists outline what was discovered in the recordings. Lillian has been hiding more than $100 million in two undeclared Swiss bank accounts. And she hasn't been paying taxes on an island she owns in the Seychelles. Given the size of their fortune, the Betancourts should have gotten a routine audit every three years, a French norm, to make sure the counting is sound. But they haven't been audited in 15 years. But what's probably much more upsetting to Francois Marie is that everyone is talking about Lillian's mental capacity because despite her insistence that she's 100% lucid, she actually does sound lost and confused on the tapes. She often doesn't remember large purchases or donations she's told she's made. And in the recordings where Patrisse encourages her to evade taxes, it's not clear if she understands what she's agreeing to. In one particularly damning recording, he tries to talk her into buying him a yacht for over 1 million euros.
- [31:12]
Sachi Kol
Sarah this strikes me as another example of a very, very, very, very, very rich person surrounded by money managers who do not want to take care of them and will lead them down a path where they are defrauding the government or the IRS or somebody else. And you know, these people are also trying to rip them off in one way or the other.
- [31:33]
Sarah Hagie
Yeah, it's really depressing. And it's worth noting that Lilliane repeatedly refused to undergo neurological exams. So it's hard to know for sure what her state of mind or mental capacity was. But from these tapes, it's clear that she's not as present as she claims. Doctors will officially conclude that she's suffering from Alzheimer's disease, but that her symptoms didn't start until 2006. By that point, she'd already given many of her biggest gifts to Francoise Marie. But she did initiate a few important things starting in 2006, like writing Francois Marie into her life insurance policies and into her will.
- [32:13]
Sachi Kol
It's tricky because I feel like she probably would have done that no matter what her mental state was, because she loved him so much, but because she clearly, at the end of her life, was starting to lose some mental acuity. It's so dark and feels manipulative and it's not even clear if it really is.
- [32:31]
Sarah Hagie
Yeah, it's definitely a gray area. And it is ironic that Lilliane was so worried about being seen as out of her mind that she refused to seek medical help. And that has cast so many of her late in life decisions into doubt. Now it might be too late to ever know what she really wanted. And as Francois Marie listens to this breaking news, the thing that strikes him the most is the fact that they're not talking about him at all. While these recordings were made solely to prove his guilt, they end up uncovering a political scandal beyond anything he was ever accused of. Over the coming days, Mediapart publishes more of the recordings along with a 500 page transcript of the whole collection. So much evidence comes to light that Francois Marie's trial gets postponed indefinitely to give officials time to sift through it all. And soon, another ex employee will bring even more accusations to light. The woman who knows exactly how money moves through the Betancourt mansion. It's July 2010, just a few weeks after the butler's recordings were first leaked. And Claire Thibaux, Lilliane's former accountant, has been watching this all go down from the sidelines. Claire was one of the staffers Lillian fired a couple of years earlier for testifying against Francois Marie. Claire feels vindicated. She was the first person to tell Francoise that Lilliane was being financially abused. And it must be satisfying to see that she wasn't wrong. This whole story, dubbed the Betancourt affair, has been in the news nonstop since the first recordings leaked. And today, Claire is going to drop another bomb. In an interview with mediapart, Claire says that a few years ago, Lilliane's financial advisor asked her to withdraw €150,000 in cash to fund Nicholas Sarkozy's presidential campaign. This might sound like business as usual to Americans, but individual campaign contributions in France are not meant to exceed €4,600 as annually, so it is a problem. Also, Claire claims that Sarkozy and the Labor Minister, Eric Wirth, were regular visitors to the Betancourt mansion during Sarkozy's election year and they'd often leave with envelopes of cash, all while Lilliane was too frail and confused to know what was going on. The article sends shockwaves through France, but Claire's credibility immediately immediately comes into question. When police follow up on her explosive claims, she immediately backtracks, saying she can't remember exactly what happened. It's also revealed that Claire and Lilliane's daughter Francoise made a pact a few years ago. Since Claire was risking her job by speaking out against Francoise Marie, Francoise offered to step in and help financially if she lost work. So when Lillian did fire Claire, Francoise cut her a check for $515,000. Claire insists the money was just to help her speak out against abuse without fear. But to the public, it kind of looks like Francoise bribed Claire into talking to the police to strengthen her court case.
- [35:49]
Sachi Kol
It sure does. Not looking good.
- [35:52]
Sarah Hagie
This is one of those situations where both things can low key be true. Politically, it is already a sensitive time in France. The world is still recovering from a financial crisis and learning about a billionaire illegally passing that much money to the president lights a match under the French public Even though Claire retracts her statements, the damage is done. An official investigation is launched against Nicolas Sarkozy, and his approval ratings tank. The public and investigators have their pitchforks ready, and they'll take aim at everyone involved in this scandal, including its first target, Francoise Marie. It's a July evening in 2010, and Francoise is probably sitting at home with her family. Lately, all she's been able to think about are the headlines swirling about her mother. None of this would have happened if it weren't for those stupid tapes. It must feel like she's completely lost control over the situation. All she wanted was to keep Francoise Marie away from her family. Instead, she launched a massive political scandal with her mother at the center. But the tapes did establish that her mom isn't mentally fit to control her massive fortune. And Francoise sees an opportunity. She wants to place Lilliane under legal guardianship, meaning she would no longer have control over any of her own finances. Francoise actually tried to do this once before, but her request was rejected. Now, with the proof on these tapes, she has new evidence for the courts. Just then, Francoise's phone buzzes. She learns that her mother put out a press release addressing the new guardianship attempt. Saatchi. We've translated some of it. Could you please read it?
- [37:42]
Sachi Kol
Yeah. It says, it is despicable relentlessness on the part of someone who claims to protect me. My daughter could wait patiently for my death instead of doing everything to hasten it. This is depressing. This is really sad. I don't even know what I would do in this situation. Because it's clear that her mom is being taken advantage of in some contexts, but it's clear she doesn't want her daughter's help.
- [38:03]
Sarah Hagie
Yeah. Both of these women have so much pride, and now that their fight has ignited a huge political scandal, it seems impossible for them to just talk it through and resolve it like normal people. Yeah, well. Ten days later, Francoise is devastated to learn that the courts denied her request. Lilliane is still refusing to sit for any neurological or medical exams. Without them, the courts don't feel like they have the proof they need to grant Francoise's request. But Francoise does get some good news not long after, her mother removes Francois Marie from her will. He'd been set to receive over 1 billion euros, but now he's back to nothing.
- [38:46]
Sachi Kol
Oh, well, that feels sudden.
- [38:48]
Sarah Hagie
Yeah. Francoise's jaw drops when she reads about Francois Marie's removal. She's shocked by this move and the fact that Lilliane has talked about it to the press in her old age. It seems like Liliane's getting messy. In a magazine interview, she says that she did feel manipulated by her friend, that he's greedy and that he's never satisfied with what he has because of a, quote, ancestral deformity, seemingly referencing his Jewish roots.
- [39:19]
Sachi Kol
Oh.
- [39:23]
Sarah Hagie
Remember, she was part of a low key Nazi family, had a bit of a husband who was into Nazis.
- [39:31]
Sachi Kol
Right.
- [39:32]
Sarah Hagie
So that prejudice runs extremely deep.
- [39:35]
Sachi Kol
Pretty deep. Okay, well, that'll do it, I guess.
- [39:38]
Sarah Hagie
Yeah. Ugh, man. Lilliane's change of heart about her friend of more than 20 years seems sudden and strange, especially since they were still talking right before Lilliane cut him out of her will. Maybe looking back on things, she sees the friendship differently now. Maybe her legal team somehow convinced her that Francois Marie was a crooked. Or maybe this is a symptom of worsening dementia. Throughout the whole affair, the French public has largely sided against Francoise, Marie and with Lilliane's daughter. But Lilliane isn't picking sides. It seems like she's fed up with them both. She says, quote, I no longer want to make an effort for them. They don't make an effort for me. But Francoise refuses to let the story end here. A month after Lilliane spoke to the press, Francoise files for her mother to be placed under legal guardianship again. And this time, Lilliane has had enough. She strikes back with her own legal action and countersues Francoise, saying that putting someone through all of these legal proceedings is a form of psychological abuse. But this legal action seems to fizzle out quickly, because In December of 2010, the saga gets yet another plot twist. Lilliane and Francoise put out a joint press release announcing that they've made a truce. After three long years of wrangling in court, mother and daughter drop all the suits and countersuits. Francoise also agrees to finally stop trying to get Lilliane placed under legal guardianship. And Lilliane agrees to stop seeing Francois Marie for good. I don't know about you, but I am feeling the whiplash. This is confusing.
- [41:27]
Sachi Kol
Why all of a sudden did they reunite?
- [41:31]
Sarah Hagie
Well, the peace doesn't last long. Six months later, Francoise goes back to court and asks for her mother to be placed under guardianship again. Old habits die hard.
- [41:45]
Sachi Kol
Now I get it. That makes more sense, actually.
- [41:47]
Sarah Hagie
This is their love language.
- [41:49]
Sachi Kol
Yeah, this is just how they talk.
- [41:50]
Sarah Hagie
It's just being like, let's sue each other.
- [41:52]
Sachi Kol
Yeah, I get it.
- [41:53]
Sarah Hagie
Well, in response to the suit, Lilliane calls her daughter fundamentally unhappy and, quote, a bit psychologically disturbed. She tells a press that she's terrified of losing her remaining autonomy. Still, Francoise is convinced that this is what's best. In October of 2011, the judge finally passes down a ruling and Francoise is ecstatic. Lilliane, now 88 years old, is officially being placed under guardianship. Francoise and her sons will now control all of Lillian's wealth and property. After turning her family's squabble into a public scandal, Francoise has finally won. Her inheritance is secure. Now the courts will have to figure out how to prosecute everyone who seems to have financially abused Lilian Betten. Court at her lowest, from Francois Marie to members of Parliament and everyone is about to have their day in court. If you're in healthcare, you've probably heard of figs. I'm not even in healthcare and I've seen them on nurses and PAs. Fig scrubs are made specifically for awesome humans like you. Designed to handle long shifts, constant movement and everything the job throws at you, all so you can perform at your best.
- [43:13]
Sachi Kol
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- [43:30]
Sarah Hagie
And their modern, tailored fit looks professional while still giving you all the function you need.
- [43:35]
Sachi Kol
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- [43:45]
Sarah Hagie
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- [44:07]
Sachi Kol
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- [44:19]
Sarah Hagie
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- [44:22]
Sachi Kol
I actually went through a bunch of their hair product sections and I bought this really big Aribe round brush that.
- [44:30]
Sarah Hagie
I'm really excited about. I also was able to do a big refresh for some makeup stuff that I knew was running low and stuff that I found was sold out at other places.
- [44:40]
Sachi Kol
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- [44:57]
Sarah Hagie
That's Revolve.com scampod to shop my top picks and get 15% off your first order with CODE Scampod. Offer is only valid for a limited time, so don't miss out. I feel like a It's May of 2015, five years after the Betancourt affair. Tapes were first released to the press and Francois Marie is in a grand courthouse in Bordeaux. He's wearing a dark suit as he waits for the judge to read his verdict. He's 67 years old now and he's tired. Francois Marie hasn't seen or heard from Lilliane since she publicly denounced him as greedy and money hungry. He's been left to mourn his decades long friendship, wondering what caused Lilliane to turn her back on him. Francois Marie isn't the only one on trial today. He's one of a handful of people accused of financially exploiting a sick and confused old woman. Though the court struggled to access Liliane's medical records for years, they officially conclude that she's been suffering from dementia and Alzheimer's. The charges against former President Nicolas Sarkozy will already drop due to lack of evidence, but the scandal probably didn't help him in his presidential re election campaign. He ends up narrowly losing. In the courthouse today, former Budget Minister Eric Vert is found not guilty of abuse. The other defendants on trial included include lawyers and accountants who worked closely with Lillian and her fortune. Eight of them are found guilty, including Francois Marie.
- [46:37]
Sachi Kol
I guess it's not entirely surprising that all these people were found guilty. I am a little surprised that the budget minister squeaked on by without anything.
- [46:45]
Sarah Hagie
That to me is so insane. The judge also says that Francois Marie exerted psychological and moral control over his beloved friend. He's sentenced to three years in prison and is forced to pay a fine of €350,000 plus €158 million in damages to Liliane.
- [47:06]
Sachi Kol
That's a lot of money for a billionaire. She was happy to buy these people gifts.
- [47:11]
Sarah Hagie
I know. I'm sure there are moments where it crossed a line, but that just seems so insane. And Patrisse, the financial advisor behind the whole message, is sentenced to three years in prison and ordered to pay a fine of more than a quarter of a million euros. By this point, the public has largely lost interest in the Betancourt affair. But people celebrate that Francois Marie got a maximum sentence. They see it as justice. Lilliane never personally comments on her former friends and confidants going to jail for their crimes. It's unclear if she was even aware of the trial. In a statement, her lawyers thanked the employees who stood up against the abuse she was facing. Francois Marie is devastated. He immediately appeals, insisting on his innocence. In interviews, he claims to be a victim who's been unfairly smeared. And he still speaks highly of Lilliane, saying that she's a remarkable woman who's been the victim of insurmountable greed, just not his own. But in France's court of public opinion, his case is likely closed for good. It's January of 2016, more than six months after the Betancourt sentences were handed down. But the legal drama isn't over. In a courtroom in Bordeaux, six people are on trial, but not for abusing Liliane Betancourt. They're in trouble for whistleblowing. Today, five journalists, including Eduis, are standing trial for their part in releasing the Betancourt tapes to the public. They're facing charges for violating personal privacy, though they argue they only released information French civilians had a right to know. The other person standing before the court is Pascal, Lillian's former butler, for making the recordings in the first place. France has strict laws surrounding the invasion of personal privacy, which Pascal breached by making the tapes and media part breached by publishing them. Pascal recorded Lilliane's private conversations even after learning that it was illegal to do so. In the end, they did end up saving Lillian from some serious financial abuse. But now he's facing a year in prison for knowingly breaking the law. Pascal and the journalists argue that what they did was important, that it should be celebrated, not punished. And it turns out the judge agrees with them. They're all acquitted. It's a huge win for press freedom and nosy French butlers.
- [49:41]
Sachi Kol
I agree with that. That's good. You shouldn't get in trouble for whistleblowing.
- [49:45]
Sarah Hagie
No. Even if you don't know what you're whistleblowing, you shouldn't get in trouble for doing it.
- [49:49]
Sachi Kol
I think tattling should be a saved occupation.
- [49:53]
Sarah Hagie
While Pascal Eduit and the other defendants claimed that making Liliane's drama public was for her own good. But now that her daughter is in charge, Liliane is out of the spotlight. And some people are wondering if Lilliane's so called protectors were really acting in her best interest or if her guardianship is less like A sanctuary and more like a prison. It's late September 2017, and a group of well dressed people are gathered at an old stone church in Paris. The group includes notable politicians and socialites, all here for the funeral of Liliane Betancourt. Liliane lived a long life, passing away at 94. But there's a lot of speculation about whether or not the last few years of her life were happy ones. After Lilliane was placed under guardianship, many of her friends and former staff members never heard from her again, even when they reached out. Old friends believe that Lilliane spent the last years of her life isolated and alone, and they blame Francoise for taking away both her freedom and her social life.
- [51:02]
Sachi Kol
That's tough because if she was having Alzheimer's or dementia at the end of her life, you know, she was maybe not a great hang. And a lot of people, when they have those diseases, they can't reminisce, they can't socialize. They struggle with a lot of human interaction. It's unclear if it's her daughter doing that or if it's the illness that's isolated her.
- [51:23]
Sarah Hagie
I know I could really see it both ways, where it's like, you know, you want to see your friend and also her daughter maybe wanting to protect her dignity. At the time of her death, Lilliane was the richest woman and the 14th richest person on earth. She was worth an estimated 33 billion euros. And now Francoise is. As of March 2025, Francoise's worth over 75 billion euros. Francois Marie is notably absent from the funeral, which is understandable since he probably wouldn't feel very welcome. About a year earlier, Francois Marie won his appeal. His fines were canceled and he didn't serve any time in jail. Now he seems to be living a relatively quiet life. In 2023, he had a gallery show for some of his photos in New York City. City. But no matter what he does, he's still best known for the scandalous friendship and the fallout that followed. In the end, it's hard to know who's to blame for everything that happened to Liliane Bettencourt. Maybe Lilliane said it best in the 1987 interview that forged her friendship with Francois Marie. When there's money involved, people go insane. All righty. Well, Sachi, being rich sounds like it sucks sometimes. It's crazy that this all started with just a guy taking a photo and being like, change your outfit. And her being like, okay, you negged me into a friendship.
- [52:58]
Sachi Kol
That's how I do it.
- [53:00]
Sarah Hagie
It's also interesting because these two were friends, but became an many ways life partners. You know, like, if their transaction was him spending time with her and making her feel loved and human, and in turn, she was giving him more money than was reasonable to many people. Even if he was, like, a shitty person and unsavory and mean to people. I just don't know if he necessarily committed, like, a real crime.
- [53:28]
Sachi Kol
Yeah, I don't know that he did either. Ultimately, Lilliane gets to decide what kind of monetary value she wants to attach to her friendships in the same way that we do when we marry someone and we put them in our will, or there's a life insurance policy for them. Uh, she made that decision, and I think she made it probably when she was mostly well. And so I don't know that it's any different. And it's a version of wealth that you and I can't get our heads around. I think it's tricky, too, because it's not like her daughter wasn't profiting from her financially either. Like, there are no figures in this story who aren't getting money from Lily Ann. So it's hard to know, like, oh, should he have taken a step back or should she have taken a step back? And I just don't think we're ever really gonna know. Cause I think, unfortunately, in this one, the scam is like being wealthy and not knowing who your friends are.
- [54:19]
Sarah Hagie
I mean, money obviously does complicate friendships in any scenario, but richest woman in the world, even if she outright gave him $10 million drop in the bucket. Yeah, it's a drop of a drop. Yeah, it's an atom in a bucket of water.
- [54:37]
Sachi Kol
You know, I guess the issue is, is that we think that more people should have scammed her out of the money and not just, like, the two to five.
- [54:44]
Sarah Hagie
Yes, absolutely.
- [54:46]
Sachi Kol
500,000 people should have been scamming her of her money. That would have been not a scam somehow.
- [54:51]
Sarah Hagie
Yeah. It is crazy to think about this dispute with your mom, who's the richest woman in the world, becoming public because she has a best friend you hate who you think is taking advantage of her. But the added layer of it turning into a political scandal that involves the president and will influence an upcoming election is just so insane to me. I feel like I would just want to go into hiding forever.
- [55:16]
Sachi Kol
Yeah. I can't imagine private arguments I'm having with my family impacting global politics. And, like, the call coming from inside the house, like, it being someone I know who's also revealing all of this.
- [55:30]
Sarah Hagie
What is your lesson. Sacha.
- [55:32]
Sachi Kol
I think my lesson is I need richer friends because none of them are giving me shit. I'll say that.
- [55:38]
Sarah Hagie
I don't know what my lesson here is. I just think money's bad.
- [55:44]
Sachi Kol
Money bad.
- [55:45]
Sarah Hagie
Money's bad and it's scary and money bad. Maybe we should just like get rid of it or print more. Whatever makes the most sense, you know?
- [55:53]
Sachi Kol
Yeah. Yeah. Loving Scamflancers get exclusive episodes and early access to new ones. All ad free on Wondri. Join now in the Wondry app, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Before you go, help us out by taking a quick survey@wondry.com survey.
- [56:18]
Sarah Hagie
This is Francois Marie the French Connection Part 2. I'm Sarah Haggie.
- [56:24]
Sachi Kol
And I'm Sachi Cole. If you have a tip for us on a story that you think we should cover, please email us@scamflancersundry.com we use many sources in our research. A few that were particularly helpful were the Betancourt Affair, the World's Richest Woman and the Scandal that Rocked Paris by Tom Sankten the Betancourt affair Parts 1.
- [56:42]
Sarah Hagie
And 2 in Vanity Fair and Media Parts Reporting. Gabrielle Joliet wrote this episode. Additional writing by us, Sachi Cole and Sarah Haggie. Olivia Briley is our story editor. Fact checking by Lexi Piri Sound design by James Morgan. Additional audio assistance provided by Augustine Lim. Our music supervisor is Scott Velasquez for freesound Sync. Our managing producer is Desi Blaylock. Our senior managing producer is Callum Plews. Janine Cornello and Stephanie Jens are our development producers. Our associate producer is Charlotte Miller. Our producer is Julie Magruder. Our senior producers are Sarah Enny and Ginny Blum. Our executive producers are Jenny Lauer, Beckman, Marshall Louie and Erin O'Flaherty for Wondery.
- [57:34]
Eduit Planel
Okay, let's be real. Have you ever had a moment where you just said screw it or someone and did something totally wild? Now imagine you just got a life changing diagnosis and instead of playing it safe, you throw caution to the wind and dive headfirst into a world of one night stands, forbidden affairs and wild adventures. Well, that's exactly what Molly and I did in Dying for Sex, Wondery's award winning podcast that's now streaming on a TV near you starring Michelle Williams and Jenny Slate. And to top it off, we are dropping brand new episodes where I nickname Boyer, co host of the series, sit down with the cast to spill all the juicy secrets. We're talking steamy stories, deep friendships and the kind of bold choices that make life worth living. Listen to the original Dying for Sex and brand New episodes on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge the original series before anyone else and completely ad free on Wondrin.