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- [00:00]
Sachi Kol
Hey Scamflancers listeners, if you're as hooked on these jaw dropping schemes as we are, you'll love Wondry. Think of it as your All Access Past the world of scams, ad free episodes, early access and exclusive deep dives that uncover even more shocking details. Don't just listen, immerse yourself in the chaos with Wondry plus.
- [00:26]
Sarah Hagie
Sachi. Now that we've been doing this show for so long, do you feel like we have an extended universe of scammers that kind of pop in and out of various stories?
- [00:35]
Sachi Kol
Yes, I do. I feel like it's like the Simpsons Extended universe.
- [00:40]
Sarah Hagie
Yes.
- [00:40]
Sachi Kol
Where like the same general figures pop up, people are weirdly related to each other, a lot of the same voices.
- [00:48]
Sarah Hagie
It's like the scammer cinematic universe. Like there are just some people who are always in proximity to something insane.
- [00:55]
Sachi Kol
Eric Adams, our next mayor.
- [00:58]
Sarah Hagie
Oh gosh. Well, today I'm going to tell you about a scammer who's connected to two scammers we've covered Jho, Low and Pras, and much like those two, the MAGA web connects them all. It's 2017 and ya Lee is sitting on her couch in Australia watching a news program. Li is a petite, soft spoken accountant who moved from China to Australia for university. She stayed, got married and had a daughter. But she still has friends in China and wants to keep up with Chinese politics. Today, Li is watching an interview on Voice of America, an international broadcasting service funded by the US Government. The guest is Guo Wengui, a Chinese billionaire real estate mogul. He fled the country in 2014 and is now blowing the whistle on corruption inside the Chinese Communist Party, or cct. Li saw ads for the program while researching CCP corruption and was intrigued. She turns up the volume to hear Guo's explosive claims. Guo is in his mid-40s with buzzed hair, and he's dressed in traditional Chinese robes. He looks serious and composed. Guo accuses top CCP officials of staggering corruption. He describes how the party spies on its own citizens, and most shockingly, he claims that ultra wealthy elites like himself secretly fund China's national security operations. There have been rumors about this for years, but no one has ever dared to confirm it publicly until now. Li has always wanted China to be a democracy, and as she watches Guo, she thinks this guy might actually be able to make a difference. Then, an hour and 19 minutes into the live interview, the feed cuts out. Later, Li learns the CCP demanded the broadcast be shut down. The fact that the CCP is trying to silence Guo only makes Lee want to hear more? If they're scared of what he's saying, then it must be true, right? This is very Streisand effect.
- [03:09]
Sachi Kol
You know they're making him even bigger.
- [03:11]
Sarah Hagie
Yeah. I mean, of course, silencing someone is just like, the worst thing you could do because it will justify anything they're saying.
- [03:19]
Sachi Kol
It's going to backfire.
- [03:20]
Sarah Hagie
Well, Lee starts following on Twitter and YouTube and watching the rambling monologues he posts every day. And she's inspired, she feels called to help Guo and fight alongside him for the truth. But what Lee doesn't realize is the man she's putting her faith in isn't speaking out against a corrupt regime. He's building one of his own. A scheme that involves shadowy nonprofits, shady crypto deals, and puts him in league with Steve Bannon. And soon, Guo's crusade for the truth will turn into a multimillion dollar scam with a MAGA megaphone behind it.
- [04:01]
Nick Cannon
It's your man, Nick Cannon, and I'm here to bring you my new podcast, Nick Cannon at Night. Every week, I'm bringing out some of my celebrity friends and the best experts in the business to answer your most intimate relationship questions. So don't be shy, join the conversation, and head over to YouTube to watch Nick Cannon at Night or subscribe on the Wondery app or wherever you get your pod.
- [04:21]
Sarah Hagie
My name is TJ Raphael. I'm the host of Liberty Lost, a new podcast about who gets to be a mother and the control of young women hidden behind the veil of faith. Binge all episodes of Liberty Lost ad free right now on Wondery from Wondery. I'm Sarah Hagie.
- [04:43]
Sachi Kol
And I'm Sachi Kol.
- [04:45]
Sarah Hagie
And this is Scamfluencers. Come and give me your attention. I won't ever learn my lesson. Turn my speakers to 11. I feel like a legend. Guo Wengui is full of contradictions. He's a billionaire, a whistleblower, a MAGA superfan, a crypto scammer, and an aspiring pop star. But his story isn't just a tale of greed and reinvention. It's also about how a man wanted by an entire government managed to build a scam empire from a Manhattan penthouse. One that fleeced his own supporters, laundered millions of dollars, and pulled in some of the most powerful voices on the American right. This is Guo Wengui, the Temu Trump. Long before Guo was a dissident railing against the system, he was a real estate mogul taking full advantage of it. It's 2006. A decade before his Voice of America debut, and Guo is pacing back and forth in his sleek Beijing office. Think marble floors and full floor to ceiling windows overlooking the city skyline. He's in his mid-30s and already firmly embedded in China's elite. We don't know much about how Guo got here. According to the New Yorker, he grew up poor and did a brief stint in prison as a young man, likely for fraud. But rather than being a setback, prison was a networking opportunity. Guo met someone who hooked him up with a real estate gig when he got out. And soon he was rising in the developer ranks and collecting powerful friends.
- [06:23]
Sachi Kol
Sarah, you and I don't believe in prison.
- [06:26]
Sarah Hagie
No. As we've said and as people do not like when we say. But part of why we don't believe.
- [06:31]
Sachi Kol
In it is because it doesn't actually work. I think this is one of those examples of someone who was, like, lightly doing crime before and then was incarcerated and then, like, really learned how to do it.
- [06:42]
Sarah Hagie
Yeah, I mean, put a bunch of people doing crime together and someone's gonna learn something, right?
- [06:48]
Sachi Kol
Listen, teachers teach well.
- [06:51]
Sarah Hagie
Today, Guo is examining blueprints for his latest project. It's a flashy skyscraper called Penghu Plaza that he wants done asap. But a stubborn vice mayor is denying his permit. So Guo picks up the phone and calls in a favor from one of his most formidable friends, Ma Jian. Ma just so happens to be a top official in China's Ministry of State Security. So he has dirt on everybody, including this vice mayor. Specifically, Ma has a sex tape of this guy with his mistress. Guo reportedly uses it to get the vice mayor thrown into prison. He's accused of corruption and of leading a, quote, decadent lifestyle. And with the vice mayor gone, Guo is able to get his permit.
- [07:40]
Sachi Kol
Okay, being accused of leading a decadent lifestyle is so metal.
- [07:46]
Sarah Hagie
Yes, I'm curious as to what counts as decadent, but that's a whole other can of worms. That's enough.
- [07:51]
Sachi Kol
That's a whole episode.
- [07:53]
Sarah Hagie
Well, thanks to connections like Ma, Guo's empire just keeps expanding. He acquires a large stake in a brokerage firm and gets into the securities industry. He moves with his wife and their two children into a sprawling lakeside mansion in Beijing estimated to be worth $230 million. He has an entire closet just for his hundred of expensive custom Brioni suits. By 2014, eight years after his dust up with the vice mayor, Guo is worth an estimated $2.3 billion, making him one of the richest people in all of China. He is thriving in the system. And that's why what happens next stings so much. In late 2014, Guo calls out another rival for corruption. But this time, the fallout gets messy. The guy tries to flee arrest, reportedly still in his pajamas, and a Chinese journalist witnesses the whole scene. Soon, reporters are sniffing around Guo's operation, and they find a lot. Enough for Chinese authorities to start digging into his relationship with Ma Jian. The government tolerated Guo's ruthless ways as long as he was useful to them. But as soon as his business feuds spilled into public view, he became a liability. In January 2015, Guo gets a phone call. It's Ma's senior aide who frantically informs Guo that authorities are at Ma's office arresting him right now. Guo knows this means he's next, so he books it out of Beijing and flies to Hong Kong, London, and finally to New York. He leaves everything behind, including his family.
- [09:43]
Sachi Kol
I love how men will abandon their families and that they can. I love that that's an option for them.
- [09:51]
Sarah Hagie
And it's always understood. It's like, yeah, of course he had to. He left them to protect them, right?
- [09:56]
Sachi Kol
Of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I got it. I saw. Taken.
- [10:01]
Sarah Hagie
Well from afar, Guo watches his life in China unravel. Many of his assets are seized or frozen. His relatives and employees are detained for questioning about him. And the ccp, which normally censors the news, allows Chinese newspapers to report on how Guo and Ma blackmailed their rivals and spied on their enemies. Guo publicly denies everything, even though it's true. The same system that made him rich is now bent on destroying him. But from the safety of Manhattan, Guo makes a decision. If the CCP wants to cast him as their villain, then he'll become a worthy nemesis. He's going to rebrand himself and go from disgraced insider to fearless whistleblower. It's January 2017, about two years since Guo fled China. He could have operated in the shadows while in exile, but he's not willing to be quietly rich. Instead, Guo has gotten himself a $68 million penthouse in New York, a 37 million DOL yacht, and the ultimate symbol of proximity to power, a membership at Mar A Lago. Trump has just been inaugurated, and Washington is buzzing with anti China rhetoric. Guo sees an opportunity to cozy up to a new government that can protect him against his old one. And he decides to do something unprecedented. He's going to speak out against China's oppressive regime. And he knows just how to do it. By starting a YouTube channel.
- [11:37]
Sachi Kol
I mean, I guess I've heard worse ideas, but I'M yeah, I'm a little worried about where this is going to go.
- [11:44]
Sarah Hagie
It's him being like, what's up, guys?
- [11:46]
Sachi Kol
Welcome back to my channel. Today we're going to talk about the definition of fascism.
- [11:53]
Sarah Hagie
Well, Guo's earliest videos are no longer on YouTube. But from later reporting, we know that Guo pitches himself in the videos as an insider turned whistleblower, someone who's seen the rot inside the CCP firsthand and is ready to expose it. He basically offers himself up on a silver platter as an ally to people like Trump who want to take China down a peg. He tells his followers that he's, quote from the grassroots, born as a farmer and not afraid of death. In the process, Guo gets to rewrite his own origin story, and two competing narratives emerge. According to Guo, he's always been a heroic dissident. He says his time in prison as a young man was for supporting the Tiananmen Square protests. He claims the police shot and killed his brother during his arrest and that he's been plotting to take down the CCP ever since. But according to the Chinese government, Guo was imprisoned for his involvement in an oil scam. We have no way of knowing the truth. Both sides have incentives to lie, and the very nature of the CCP's censorship casts doubt over any records they share, which makes it very easy for Guo to play the victim for his fans online. Guo's new narrative makes him a hero. He quickly gains hundreds of thousands of followers on Twitter and YouTube, including Western journalists and even some people in Washington by April 2017. Guo's efforts to build up his profile culminate in his Voice of America interview, the one Ya Lee watched. It's a big moment. Guo accuses China's anti corruption czar of actually being corrupt himself. And even though the feed gets cut, the damage has been done. Guo has poked the bear, but now the bear is about to come for him. All the way from Beijing and right into his Manhattan penthouse. The CCP strikes back. The very same day, the Voice of America interview airs. At Chyna's request, Interpol issues a red notice calling for Guo's detention pending extradition on charges including corruption, bribery, fraud, money laundering, and even kidnapping and rape. They release a taped confession from Guo's old spymaster friend Ma, who says he took nearly $9 million in bribes to move Guo's projects along. And Chinese media starts reporting about potential scams Guo ran back in Beijing, like getting a fraudulent $466 million loan from a state owned bank and illegally transferring nearly $300 million of client funds out of his securities firm. And then, as if the message wasn't clear enough, four Chinese officials show up at Guo's New York penthouse. They make Guo an offer. Come home quietly, and in return, the government will leave his family alone and unfreeze his assets. They've even brought Guo a present of sorts. His wife and daughter.
- [15:02]
Sachi Kol
Oh, that sounds ominous. And like they have been kidnapped, perhaps.
- [15:08]
Sarah Hagie
Yeah, exactly. While Guo is thankful to have some of his family back, he knows it's actually more of a threat than a peace offering. He refuses to cave to their demands. And in September 2017, he files for political asylum. He's cutting ties with China for good. And he's ready to ally himself with people who hate the Chinese government as much as he does the Trump White House. A month later, Steve Bannon. Yes, that Steve Bannon sits down for lunch with Guo in a hotel suite in Washington, DC. Think paisley headboards, crisp white linens and soft cream walls. Basically the opposite of Steve's vibe. Even in this fancy setting, Steve shows up looking like he just crawled out of a basement lined with conspiracy theory cork boards. Which, honestly, probably isn't that far off. Steve is in a bit of a sticky situation at the moment. He was recently fired from his job at the White House for contradicting the president. Plus, the mega rich family bankrolling his podcast and other media projects are cutting off his funding. Steve needs cash. But that's not the only reason why he wants to meet Guo. When Steve was still in the White House, a number of big names tried to get Guo deported, including scamfluencer stars Joe Low and Prass Michelin. But Steve knew Guo could be a valuable asset against the ccp. For years, Steve has been obsessed with the idea of taking down China. And he's practically salivating at the prospect of working with Guo. A real Chinese insider willing to give him all the gossip. He's even got a tagline ready to market Guo to his audience, the Donald Trump of Beijing.
- [17:00]
Sachi Kol
Um, well, that makes me sick. And what I love about the story is how I hate everybody.
- [17:06]
Sarah Hagie
Yeah, you can freely hate everyone mentioned.
- [17:09]
Sachi Kol
Thus far, no one to root for.
- [17:12]
Sarah Hagie
Well, Steve was already inclined to like Guo, but during the slunge, he kind of falls in love. The two men talk for six hours about everything from China's debt crisis to its military capabilities to the CCP's corruption. They're both bombastic, conspiracy minded, and they love painting themselves as underdogs locked in an existential battle against dark forces. Using Steve's influence on the American right and Guo's insider gossip and cash. They vow to bring about the demise of the CCP together.
- [17:49]
Sachi Kol
This is two dumb bitches nodding to each other and saying, exactly.
- [17:54]
Sarah Hagie
Yes, absolutely. And it's also just like you guys are on a date. They're dating.
- [18:00]
Sachi Kol
Yeah, there's no one gayer than two straight men in politics.
- [18:04]
Sarah Hagie
Exactly. Well, after that lunch, Guo and Steve are basically best friends. They start popping up on each other's podcasts and online videos, ranting about the CCP and weaving wilder and wilder conspiracy theories. They hang out in Guo's penthouse, they party on his yacht, and the following year they create the Rule of Law Society, a nonprofit with the mission of gathering evidence against Chinese officials. It's unclear who suggested the idea for the nonprofit first, or if the idea was a shared fever dream, but Guo pledges to put $100 million of his own money into the effort. He also promises to match small donors contributions 2 to 1. Steve becomes chairman with a $1 million consulting fee courtesy of Guo. Of course, Steve gets his payday, but Guo's donation pledge, it never seems to come through. Instead, Guo seems to use the fund mainly as a way to amass followers, ones who might want to invest in future money making opportunities with him. Steve thinks he's found the perfect partner, a fellow outsider who's ready to tear down the system and isn't afraid to get his hands dirty. And he's right. Because like Steve, Guo has built an audience of people who trust and believe in him. And even if they can't take down the ccp, they've got the next best. An army of perfect suckers clamoring to line both of their pockets.
- [19:42]
Sachi Kol
We all know the feeling of staring at a closet full of clothes but still feeling like we have nothing to wear. And those trendy pieces from last season? They're already collecting dust. But what if you could build a wardrobe that actually lasts without spending a fortune?
- [19:56]
Sarah Hagie
That's where Quinn's comes in. They're bringing you timeless staples without the luxury markup. We're talking about European linen tops Starting at just $30, washable silk dresses and skirts and soft cotton sweaters. Versatile warm weather pieces you'll reach for again and again by working directly with.
- [20:13]
Sachi Kol
Top artisans and cutting out the middleman. Everything at Quint's is half the cost of similar brands. Sarah, you know that a bunch of my wardrobe is comprised of Quinn stuff, but it's actually all stuff that I bought a couple of years ago and it still really holds up I still look very cute, which as you know, is top priority.
- [20:30]
Sarah Hagie
You know what? I will give you that. You do always look cute. Well, give your summer closet an upgrade with quints. Go to quince.comscampod for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.comscampod to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.comscampod if you're craving restaurant quality meals but tired of takeout prices and prep time, I know I am. Then get ready to transform your mealtime with CookUnity. They've brought together over 160 all star chefs, including Food Network stars and James Beard Award winners to craft incredible small batch meals just for you. Get ready to eat meals delivered directly to your door. Always fresh and never frozen and ready to heat in just five minutes. CookUnity has over 300 weekly options that you can customize to your tastes and dietary needs. Look, I get it. When you hear ready to eat meals, you probably think of those sad frozen dinners with tiny portions. But Cook Unity is seriously nothing like that. These meals are actually restaurant quality. It's the kind of food you take a picture of before eating. Plus, they're really good about packaging everything separately. All the sauces and veggies are in their containers, so nothing gets soggy. Get what you're craving. Try the freshest, best tasting meal delivery made by your favorite celebrity chefs. Go to cookunity.com scamfluencers or enter code SCAMFLUENCERS before checkout for Free Premium Meals for Life. That's free Premium Meals for Life by using code Scamfluencers or going to cookunity.com scamfluencers terms and conditions apply. Go to cookunity.com for details. I feel like a legend. It's 2018, and ting biao is at home in New Jersey when he gets served with a defamation lawsuit. Ting is in his 40s, with thin, rectangular glasses and a resting, serious face. He's a Chinese dissident who fled his home country in 2014 and is now a visiting scholar at NYU. But he isn't being sued by anyone in the CCP. He's being sued by Guo. Ting knows why Guo is coming after him. Guo has built a sizable following with Chinese expats, but Ting isn't one of them. In fact, the year before he published a bombshell report about the real Guo, he dug into Guo's past in Beijing detailing the schemes and shady dealings that made him rich in the first place. Then he went after Guo's so called whistleblowing, arguing that his allegations of CCP corruption were at best exaggerations and at worst total fabrications. Teng pointed out Guo's pattern of narcissism, sensationalism and authoritarianism. And he didn't shy away from mentioning the serious rape accusations Guo's faced, which Guo has consistently dismissed and denied. We should note that Ting himself has publicly apologized for an alleged attempted assault that took place before his report was published. Ting also hit at the heart of Guo's whole Persona, questioning if Guo was even a real dissident. Ting pointed out that while Guo loved ranting about corrupt officials, he was conspicuously soft on Chinese President Xi Jinping, the literal head of the ccp. Guo often praised Xi and once wrote a fawning letter to party leaders after they visited him in New York, offering to use his, quote, influence and resources to support Xi's agenda. Ting came to the conclusion that Guo was nothing but a liar out for his own gain. Can you read what Ting later told the New York Times about Guo?
- [24:29]
Sachi Kol
He said, quote, after watching him for 20 minutes, I realize this guy is just a swindler. He's not somebody who wants to fight for democracy or freedom in China. He just wants to use his influence and his impact to cheat people for money. This is like a scamflancer's manifesto. This is the thesis statement of the scamflancer.
- [24:48]
Sarah Hagie
Yes, that is exactly it. He's saying this guy's a scammer and he just wants money from people. Which, sure, Guo's defamation case against Ting gets dismissed pretty quickly. The whole saga leaves Ting even more committed to speaking out against Guo. But as Guo's scam empire expands, it's going to take more than one critic to bring him down. It's June 2020, three years after Guo and Steve first met. Today they're on the deck of Guo's yacht, standing in front of the Statue of Liberty. They're flanked by blue flags they've designed themselves. It's an appropriately theatrical backdrop for the big announcement they're about to make on a livestream a self proclaimed new Chinese government. It's called the New Federal State of China, and Guo and Steve claim it's destined to overthrow the ccp. Here is a screenshot. Saatchi. All right, well, it's these two idiots.
- [25:49]
Sachi Kol
On a boat, Guo is in a suit, and Steve Bannon looks like he's going to a fishing conference, and they are standing in front of the Statue of Liberty. This is stupid and I hate it.
- [26:02]
Sarah Hagie
Yeah, I mean, didn't she say, bring me your hungry or tomorrow?
- [26:05]
Sachi Kol
She doesn't want this. She wants to be left alone.
- [26:07]
Sarah Hagie
She does not want this. They are not hungry. They are not tired.
- [26:10]
Sachi Kol
They are not huddled masses. They're on a yacht.
- [26:14]
Sarah Hagie
Well. Guo chants take down the CCP and Mandarin, while Steve looks slightly stiff and awkward, seemingly not understanding what Guo's saying. Eventually, Guo switches over to English, then Steve joins in a beat late. At the end of their grand declaration, Guo actually signs their founding document in his own blood. Steve, apparently not quite as much of a die Hard, politely declines that part. All of this spectacle fires up the people watching at home. But it's just the tip of the iceberg, because behind the scenes, Guo and Steve have been laying the groundwork for something much bigger and shadier. Just two months earlier, they launched another venture, a video streaming news company called gtv. Guo says that GTV can use cutting edge Israeli technology to bypass China's censors and give Chinese citizens access to outside information. GTV quickly becomes a platform for Steve's War Room podcast, and of course, Guo becomes a frequent guest. But GTV isn't just a media project. It's also a massive investment scheme. Guo targets Chinese expats and dissidents worldwide who want democracy in China. And supposedly as a way to raise funds for this movement, he sells them unregistered stock offerings in the company, which is completely illegal. But don't worry, he explicitly promises investors, quote, I will not let you lose any money, which is also illegal. And this isn't the only outlandish promise he makes. He also claims that if his fans donate to his movement, they will definitely be approved for asylum in the us.
- [28:08]
Sachi Kol
So all of this stock offering stuff is super illegal. The promises are illegal, but promising that in exchange for money, you will get asylum approval is bullshit. And also, like, fundamentally at odds with how immigration is supposed to work here.
- [28:27]
Sarah Hagie
Yeah, I mean, it's a fantasy that's too good to resist. More than 5,500 people in shares of GTV, raising over $450 million for the company. To be clear, that's roughly $82,000 worth of stock per person that Guo's fleecing. People aren't just thinking, this is a fun investment. They're pouring in their life savings. But Guo doesn't invest this money into GTV as promised. Just days after closing the stock offering, he takes $100 million of it and Invests in a high risk hedge fund instead. Guo may have lost his place in Beijing, but in exile, he's building a new kind of empire. It's a pyramid scheme disguised as a movement, and it's funded entirely by the dreams and the life savings of the very people he's claiming he will save. It's August 2020, just a couple of months after the big announcement. Guo and Steve are off doing their own things. Guo is probably in his Manhattan penthouse while Steve's actually using Guo's yacht for a little R and R. But then Guo hears the news.
- [29:46]
Nick Cannon
Steve Bannon was arrested off the coast of Connecticut on this $28 million luxury.
- [29:51]
Sarah Hagie
Yacht owned by an exiled Chinese billionaire. That was ABC News's David Muir breaking the story that the Manhattan DA is charging Steve with defrauding hundreds of thousands of donors in his 2019 campaign to build a wall along the US Mexico border. You might think that watching his bestie get arrested would scare Guo straight, but if anything, it does the opposite. In the days that follow, Guo doubles down. He posts a triumphant video on social media claiming that GTV has a $2 billion value. The Department of Justice later claims that Guo is lying and that the company has no real revenue. Around the same time, Guo decides to get into a new scam prone crypto. Guo creates his own cryptocurrency exchange. He claims it's all backed by 20% gold, although he never proves this. And since Guo's cryptocurrency can only be used on his exchange, if it ever folds, the coins will be utterly worthless. Guo reportedly rakes in at least $500 million through his cryptocurrency venture.
- [31:06]
Sachi Kol
This is the most depressing episode of Scamflancers Bingo because it's really hitting every square and it is so predictable and so upsetting.
- [31:16]
Sarah Hagie
It's so crazy how easy it has been to scam using crypto. It's like it will never compute how simple it kind of is.
- [31:24]
Sachi Kol
No one is learning their lesson with.
- [31:27]
Sarah Hagie
All this cash pouring in. Go does some interesting things. First, he starts releasing music. He's got songs like Dear Mama, I am ending the CCP, H coin to the moon, and take down the CCP, which briefly hits the number one spot on the iTunes charts in September of 2020. He also releases music videos. And we have to actually watch this one for his song called the Hero.
- [32:01]
Sachi Kol
Okay, well, the song is very bad.
- [32:05]
Sarah Hagie
Oh, it's terrible.
- [32:06]
Sachi Kol
It defies explanation.
- [32:08]
Sarah Hagie
The video.
- [32:10]
Sachi Kol
Okay, so he is wearing like full hype beast apparel. There's a Lot of leather vests, black T shirts happening, weird sunglasses. And he is rapping poorly in front of a big. A big private jet. And then a bunch of sort of anonymous smoky rooms. Oh, he's holding what appears to be a flaming lightsaber at some point. This is what happens when little boys have money. It is.
- [32:36]
Sarah Hagie
And you know what? I'm always blown away by how people can have everything and yet they'll still want to be a part of the arts for some reason. Well, Guo doesn't stop there, by the way. He launches an apparel line called G Fashion, where you can buy a more than $2,000 button down shir emblazoned with the word Ivermectin across the front. And yes, that is a veterinary anti parasite drug that conspiracy theorists claimed could cure Covid. He also rolls out a high end membership program called G Club. There's an initiation fee, plus yearly membership fees costing up to $50,000. In exchange, you get what Guo's website describes as a quote, exclusive high end membership program offering a full spectrum of services and a gateway to carefully curated world class products, services and experiences. Guo claims publicly that he's got 25,000 members, plus millions more who want to join. In reality, he has less than 6,000 active members. And of course, none of those membership benefits seem to be real. And yet, over the next two and a half years, Guo rakes in $250 million in G Club initiation and membership fees. So just to tally that all up, Guo's got more than $400 million worth of investments in GTV. Then another $500 million from his crypto scheme, plus the nearly $250 million he'll eventually bring in from G Club. We are well over a billion dollars in fraud and Guo is nowhere near done.
- [34:27]
Sachi Kol
What is the point of that much money? Like, at a certain point, you have to just be losing track of the level of fraud you're committing. And now it's just about like being a dick.
- [34:37]
Sarah Hagie
Well, you know what, Saatchi? Just like his buddy Steve Bannon, Guo takes his followers well intentioned donations and of course starts spending it on himself. According to court documents, here are just a few of his purchases during this time. Nearly $1 million worth of rugs. A $4 million custom Bugatti. That's a car. And a $3.5 million Ferrari, which is also a car. Right. Thank you. Two mattresses worth $36,000 each. A $140,000 piano. A 50,000 square foot mansion in New Jersey, and here's a Picture. Just in case you're having a hard time imagining what 50,000 square feet looks like.
- [35:23]
Sachi Kol
Okay, so 50,000 square feet is a castle on acres and acres and acres of land with a swimming pool and like a fountain, it's an enormity of property. Nobody needs this much space. This is like the. This is the X Men castle.
- [35:40]
Sarah Hagie
I was actually going to say it kind of looks like on tv when there's an exclusive castle boarding school or something. Yeah, it's very Hogwarts. Yep. Well, Guo puts some of these purchases under the names of a few family members in an effort to minimize any legal blowback for him. He even has a so called war chest. $150 million he can put toward any legal battles. And Guo isn't just using his followers for their money. He also orders them to shut down and harass anyone who questions him. In December 2020, Guo's followers pick at the house of Ting Biao, the academic who published that scathing article about Guo's past in China. They spend two months at Ting's house, protesting every day. Ting and his family aren't harmed, but some of the dissidents Guo targets are physically assaulted, with Guo's followers kicking and beating them up. But Guo might be preparing for battle with the wrong enemies. Because while he's fixated on government agents and political attacks, the real threat is much closer to home. Most of his followers still can't see the cracks in the foundation, but Guo is about to test their faith and their loyalty. It's late 2021, and while Guo is rolling in Bugattis ya Lee is in Australia staring at a legal document she doesn't want to sign. Lee has been a fan of Guo since his Voice of America interview. After he and Steve Bannon launched the Rule of Law Society, she volunteered her skills as an accountant and translator. She's risen through the ranks to become a director and has been in contact with Guo on WhatsApp groups. Sure, they've never met, but they talk like family. He calls her sister Mulan and she calls him Brother 7. As far as Lee's concerned, Guo's flashy businesses are necessary to fund the fight against the ccp. She's actually helped him run a loan program to sell more shares of gtv. After the first round sold out, the idea was that more supporters could continue to invest by sending money to one of Guo's local quote farms, online hubs run by trusted volunteers like Lee. The farm signs a loan agreement with the supporter, then sends the money to Guo's company. In return, the supporter is promised GTV shares. The Justice Department later claims that Guo raised about $150 million through his farm program. Li is convinced that she's doing the right thing by helping Guo, but the document in front of her is making her uneasy. It's a promissory note that says she sent money to a company she's never even heard of. She doesn't want to lie, but one of Guo's lawyers really wants her to sign it. So she tries justifying the lie to herself. Maybe she forgot or made a mistake. If Guo says that's where the money went, then she should trust him. So she signs a note and tells herself it's for the cause. Besides, Guo would never steer her wrong, right? Oh, I have a feeling Guo would.
- [39:05]
Sachi Kol
Steer her super duper wrong. Maybe a billion dollars wrong even.
- [39:10]
Sarah Hagie
Yeah, at this point, Li is just in too deep. She doesn't consider the possibility that Guo might be doing something sketchy. But soon enough, she'll realize that Guo criticizing the CCP for corruption is just the pot calling the kettle black. And when she does, she'll turn from one of Guo's most devoted followers into one of his most dangerous adversaries.
- [39:42]
TJ Raphael
Before the Internet ruled Our Lives, AOL brought America online with email and instant messenger. By 2000, AOL was so powerful, it bought media giant Time Warner. This was a deal that was supposed to bring us into the future, revolutionize media. But instead, it became one of the messiest corporate disasters in history. So what went wrong? The dot com crash? Culture clashes? Or something deeper? Business wars gives you a front row seat to the biggest moments in business and how they shape our world. Because when you're flight perks disappear, your favorite restaurant chain goes bankrupt, or new tech threatens to reshape everything overnight, you can bet there's a deeper story behind the headlines. Make sure to follow Business wars on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcast. And you can binge all episodes of Business the AOL Time Warner Disaster, early and ad free right now on Wondery.
- [40:40]
Eric Thurm
Behind the closed doors of government offices and military compounds, there are hidden stories and buried secrets from the darkest corners of hidden history. From COVID experiments pushing the boundaries of science to operations so secretive they were barely whispered about. Each week on Redacted Declassified Mysteries, we pull back the curtain on These hidden histories, 100% true and verifiable stories that expose the shadowy underbelly of power. Consider Operation Paperclip, where former Nazi scientists were brought to America after World War II not as prisoners but as assets to advance US intelligence during the Cold War. These aren't just old conspiracy theories. They're thoroughly investigated accounts that reveal the uncomfortable truths still shaping our world today. The stories are real. The secrets are shocking. Follow Declassified mysteries on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts you can listen to redacted early and ad free right now on Wonder.
- [41:42]
Sarah Hagie
I feel like a legend. In September of 2021, Guo's media company, GTV, finally gets hit with official charges from the SEC. The investors in GTV realized they'd never seen any return on their investments or any of the other promised benefits. And when they tried to get their money back, they couldn't. So they made some calls to the authorities. The SEC accuses Guo of illegally selling unregistered cryptocurrency and stock in GTV. Guo's companies agree to pay $535 million to settle the whole thing, but don't admit to or deny the allegations. GTV's news site tries to downplay the charges afterward, but no matter how Guo tries to play it, it's a major blow. And it's only the beginning, because ghosts from his past start reappearing. Back in Beijing, Guo took out massive loans to build his real estate empire, loans he never repaid. Now they're coming due at the worst possible time. A New York court orders Guo to pay back $116 million in debt and interest for a long defaulted loan. The judge bars Guo from selling or relocating any of his property until the matter settles. But Guo ignores this order and moves his yacht into international waters. The judge fines him $500,000 per day until he returns the yacht, which he doesn't do. So within a few months, he racks up $134 million in fines, nearly $20 million more than he initially owed.
- [43:33]
Sachi Kol
I mean, that's a lot of money, but he already owes so much money and he stole so much money. That's like, what's a 20 million do? Fine.
- [43:41]
Sarah Hagie
It's true. It's numbers on a screen. Yeah, it's not real to him. And also, like, I do, like when people take advantage of maritime law.
- [43:50]
Sachi Kol
International waters, you can do whatever you want.
- [43:52]
Sarah Hagie
It seems so obvious.
- [43:54]
Sachi Kol
That's how it works. If you make it out there, you can have anything. That's just pirate law.
- [43:59]
Sarah Hagie
Well, Guo claims he doesn't have the money to pay off his debts. He might have been a billionaire once, but now he has very few assets in his own name. His companies and family are the ones who own it all. So he files for bankruptcy. In the filing, he places his personal net worth between 50 and $100,000. And of course, he blames the whole thing on the CCP. Not long after, in March of 2022, Guo has no choice but to shut down GTV. Sachi, can you read his dramatic social media post? Yeah.
- [44:40]
Sachi Kol
He wrote Dear Comrades in Arms, GTV has been completely shut down at 12 in the morning yesterday due to the massive tampering of data by the Communist Party hackers. This feels like a similar strategy to. Like earlier in the episode where he was saying that he was basically being censored and that he couldn't speak freely. But. But it also seems like this strategy is not going to work again here. He's gone to that well too many times.
- [45:05]
Sarah Hagie
No, of course not. But also, like, what else does he have, right? Even though the wheels of justice sometimes move slowly, they do eventually catch up to Guo. In March of 2023, a year after he files for bankruptcy, US authorities show up at his Manhattan penthouse with a warrant for his arrest. He's charged with defrauding more than 5,000 investors out of more than a billion dollars, along with wire fraud, securities fraud, bank fraud, and money laundering. Guo pleads not guilty, but if a jury disagrees, he's staring down decades behind bars. And after years of playing his enemies against one another, Guo is about to fade some betrayal of his own. Not long after Guo's arrest, Ya Lee has one of his lawyers in front of her once again demanding that she sign a piece of paper. This time, it's an affidavit that says she authorized a transfer of funds from one of Guo's companies in the British Virgin Islands. But she didn't. And an affidavit feels different than anything she's been asked to sign before. Li doesn't want to lie to a court and potentially get sent to prison herself. The lawyer straight up threatens her. He says if she doesn't sign the affidavit, she'll have to personally pay Guo back for every dollar in the company account if it's seized by authorities. All $38 million. It's also heavily implied that if she doesn't do this, she's no longer welcome in the movement. This ultimatum finally makes Li see through Guo's allure and realize the whole thing's a scam. She shouldn't have to commit fraud to keep fighting the anti communism fight. She's so angry and ashamed she fell for Guo's lies. She worries that Guo's other followers might hurt her in some way. But she refuses to back down. So she calls the US Authorities and tells them everything she knows. A year later, in June 2024, Lee travels to New York to take the witness stand. During Guo's trial, she stares down the man she once believed was a hero. Good for her.
- [47:25]
Sachi Kol
Finally, someone to root for.
- [47:26]
Sarah Hagie
Yeah, I mean, took her long enough, but sure.
- [47:31]
Sachi Kol
Listen, you gotta take what you can get in some of these episodes.
- [47:34]
Sarah Hagie
Well, she is extremely nervous. Not because she might go to jail. She signed a non prosecution agreement so she wouldn't be charged for any crimes she committed while working for Guo. But the courtroom is packed with Guo's devoted supporters. People who once called her sister Mulan, but who now see her as a traitor. And now they know her real name and her real face. She has no idea what they might do to her if she's the reason Guo goes down. But Li knows she has to tell the truth for herself and for her family. So she walks to court through everything she knows. And it is a lot. She had so much access and oversight of Guo's funds and financial moves that she's central to the prosecutor's case. Using Lee's information, the prosecution lays it bare. Guo treated his followers money like a personal piggy bank. Multiple fraud schemes all funded his life of yachts, penthouses, and club memberships. They say he used Steve Bannon to boost his own notoriety and fame, knowing full well that they were peddling lies. But Guo's lawyer paints a very different picture. He says Guo is a political dissident who was under constant threat. He had to hide his money so the CCP couldn't steal it and leave him destitute. The argument seems to be that he had all his followers money in a safe place, just not the place they thought their cash would be.
- [49:05]
Sachi Kol
Uh, what? I don't think that's a great legal argument. I don't know that I would buy that. That doesn't make any sense.
- [49:15]
Sarah Hagie
It makes no sense.
- [49:17]
Sachi Kol
I definitely took your money, but I put it somewhere safe as, like, specious at best.
- [49:21]
Sarah Hagie
It's crazy. And you know what? The jury doesn't buy it either. They find Guo guilty on nine of the 12 char charges against him. Guo takes the decision in stride. He gives a soft smile to his supporters in the room, some of whom get emotional and start crying. Then he hugs his lawyers and shakes their hands. Guo is currently at the Metropolitan Detention center in Brooklyn, awaiting sentencing in September 2025. As for Steve Bannon, he's never been charged in connection to this. Case. Trump pardoned him back in 2021 before his own fraud trial could begin. The one about soliciting funds for building the border wall. But that didn't save Steve entirely. Just before Guo's conviction, Steve reported to a federal prison to serve a four month sentence for defying a congressional subpoena. He was released last October. In March, the Trump administration cut off funding for Voice of America, the very outlet where Li first saw Guo and believed he might be the real deal. In the end, Guo wasn't taken down by the Chinese government. He was taken down by his own believers. While Guo awaits sentencing, don't be surprised if any of these players pop back up in the chaos. US China relations are like a geopolitical reality show where no one knows what's coming next, least of all the people actually running the show. Sachi, I think the question I have here is, scam aside, do you think that Guo was actually a dissident?
- [51:05]
Sachi Kol
It's tricky because everybody in this story is kind of using each other for this, like, political proxy war. But I have real doubts that anybody who's on Steve Bannon's side is like, a freedom fighter. Like, it just doesn't compute. This person is too rich and too evil for me to be like, yeah, yeah, this is a dissident. And generally, when you think of an activist or a dissident or someone going against the government, they're not fleecing people out of billions of dollars.
- [51:35]
Sarah Hagie
Yeah. How he was able to rack in millions from people, like, hundreds of millions of dollars that accumulated to over a billion dollars from regular people is insane. And it also, like, really brought me back to this time where Steve Bannon was everywhere. Like, you couldn't ever escape his disgusting face, and that nothing ever really happened to him.
- [51:57]
Sachi Kol
I mean, didn't he go to jail and then get out?
- [51:59]
Sarah Hagie
Yeah, but, like, that's nothing compared to that.
- [52:01]
Sachi Kol
Yeah, no, I agree. Listen, these stories are riddled with people who do not face any consequences to their actions. And, like, how odd that the trifecta is Jho Low Pras Michel. And then Guo, like, what a weird triad and what a strange group of people to be connected across borders and governments and political anxiety and xenophobia and Donald Trump.
- [52:29]
Sarah Hagie
Yeah. It's almost like, I know we always talk about how easy it is to get money from people, but he must have been so persuasive that he was able to live this extremely lavish life that he flaunted. He was not hiding, and these people still were like, well, but he is a Victim. He's a victim. And he's also like our Malcolm X or something. Like, I'm just like so shocked by it all that it worked so well.
- [52:53]
Sachi Kol
Yeah, it is really a testament to how easy it was. He really just asked people for money and they gave it to him.
- [52:59]
Sarah Hagie
Another thing that I find fascinating is how willing people can be to sign documents.
- [53:06]
Sachi Kol
Yeah, people don't read their contracts. They just assume that no one is out to fleece them. And I have some news from you. As one of the hosts of a podcast about people who fleece other people, there are a lot of people who want to fleece you.
- [53:20]
Sarah Hagie
Yeah, it's hard to not be super paranoid anytime you get asked to sign something. But also, they're so long. These documents are so long.
- [53:29]
Sachi Kol
Sarah, read the contracts.
- [53:32]
Sarah Hagie
What do you think the lesson here is for you?
- [53:35]
Sachi Kol
Oh, I don't think there's a lesson in here for me.
- [53:39]
Sarah Hagie
No, I don't think so either. I don't think there's really a lesson for us.
- [53:43]
Sachi Kol
Yeah, I don't think you and I needed to learn anything here today.
- [53:46]
Sarah Hagie
I think it's just kind of like if you make $500 million on a crypto scam, pay for a better music video.
- [53:54]
Sachi Kol
Money can't buy you class. Sarah. I don't know if you've heard that song.
- [53:57]
Sarah Hagie
I think that is a lesson. That is a lesson. Money can't buy you class. And I feel like elegance is learned, you know?
- [54:04]
Sachi Kol
Sure is my friend.
- [54:05]
Sarah Hagie
Money can't buy you class.
- [54:12]
Sachi Kol
Loving scamflancers get exclusive episodes and early access to new ones. All ad free on Wondry. Join now in the Wondry app, Apple podcasts or Spotify. Before you go, help us out by taking a quick survey@wondry.com survey.
- [54:29]
Sarah Hagie
This is Guo Wengwe, the Temu Trump. I'm Sarah Hagie.
- [54:34]
Sachi Kol
And I'm Sachi Cole. If you have a tip for us on a story that you think we should cover, please email us@scamfluencerswondry.com we use many sources in our research. A few that were particularly helpful were how a tycoon linked to Chinese intelligence became a darling of Trump republics by Evan Osnos for the New Yorker. The undoing of Guo Wen, gun billionaire accused of fraud on two continents by Michael Forsythe and Benjamin Weiser for the New York Times. And she was a top supporter of.
- [55:00]
Sarah Hagie
A right wing mogul.
- [55:02]
Sachi Kol
Now she's a star witness against him by Dan Friedman for Mother Jones.
- [55:06]
Sarah Hagie
Alex Burns wrote this episode. Additional writing by us Sachi Cole and Sarah Hagie. Eric Thurm is our story editor. Fact checking by Meredith Clark. Sound design by James Morgan. Additional audio assistance provided by Augustine Lim. Our music supervisor is Scott Velasquez for Frisson Sync. Our managing producer is Desi Blaylock. Our senior managing producer is Callum Plews. Janine Cornello and Stephanie Jens are our development producers. Our associate producer is Charlotte Miller. Our producer is Julie McGruder. Our senior producers are Sarah Enny and Ginny Blume. Our executive producers are Jenny Lauer, Beckman, Marshall Louie and Eric Aaron o' Flaherty for Wondery.
- [55:55]
Nick Cannon
Yo, it's your man, Nick Cannon. And we are back with a brand new season of We Playing Spades. And to the left of me is the best of me. The one and only, my bestie, Courtney B.
- [56:03]
Sachi Kol
And you know what the B stands for?
- [56:06]
Nick Cannon
Beat your ass. And that's exactly what we doing right here this season because. Because we playing Spades is back and better than ever.
- [56:13]
Sarah Hagie
That's right.
- [56:13]
Sachi Kol
So make sure you hit the subscribe button on YouTube.
- [56:16]
Nick Cannon
They gave us our own YouTube channel. It's we Playing Spade.