Joe Francis: Indie Sleaze

Summary

Scamfluencers – Episode: Joe Francis: Indie Sleaze

Release Date: January 6, 2025

In this captivating episode of Scamfluencers, co-hosts Sachi Cole and Sarah Hagi delve deep into the tumultuous journey of Joe Francis, the controversial founder of Girls Gone Wild. Through meticulous reporting and an exclusive interview with award-winning documentary filmmaker Jameela Wignot, the episode unravels the intricate web of deception, legal battles, and personal downfall that marked Francis's empire.

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1. The Rise and Fall of Girls Gone Wild

Girls Gone Wild skyrocketed in the late 1990s and early 2000s, becoming a cultural phenomenon that capitalized on the wild spring break culture. Sachi Cole reminisces about the brand’s omnipresence, stating, "Girls Gone Wild was a direct-to-consumer video series featuring young women flashing while on spring break" (01:04). The brand's success was palpable, with Francis amassing a fortune in his twenties by tapping into the hedonistic desires of the era.

Joe Francis depicted Girls Gone Wild as an aspirational venture. However, the reality was far murkier. Sachi elaborates, "The flashing is just the tease at the top of a tape. What you would actually get was pornography performed by two non-professional girls" (14:15). This revelation underscores the exploitative nature of the content, where consent and agency were often overshadowed by coercion and manipulation.

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2. Legal Troubles and the Crumbling Empire

Francis's meteoric rise was soon followed by a cascade of legal challenges that began in 2006. He pled guilty to federal charges for failing to track the girls featured in his videos, agreeing to a hefty $500,000 fine (20:37). The situation escalated in 2007, when the IRS indicted him for tax evasion, accusing his companies of falsifying over $20 million in business expenses (20:49). This indictment revealed the extent of his financial deceit, including the use of offshore accounts to conceal income.

A pivotal moment came with the RICO charges in Panama City Beach, Florida, where Francis was accused of using minors in sexual performances. Despite the gravity of these accusations, a 2007 judge dismissed many charges due to insufficient evidence, leaving Francis to face only a few remaining counts. In 2011, during a civil lawsuit, Francis represented himself, revealing his combative nature. Despite the emotionally charged testimonies, the all-female jury found him liable for "gross behavior" but did not award any damages (30:44).

The final blow came in 2013, when famed casino mogul Steve Wynn successfully sued Francis for $47 million in defamation and slander (34:56). This lawsuit not only drained Francis's finances but also led to the declaration of bankruptcy for Girls Gone Wild in the same year.

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3. Impact on Victims

The fallout from Girls Gone Wild had profound and lasting effects on its participants. Joe Francis acknowledged the psychological toll on the young women involved, saying, "From that moment on, she is a person whose identity... is fixed as this girl who did this dirty, shameful thing" (25:47). Many victims faced public shaming, social ostracization, and long-term mental health issues, including addiction and depression.

Sachi Cole highlights the societal indifference towards these victims, mentioning, "A lot of the locals I talked to... thought all the girls deserved it" (27:49). This lack of empathy exacerbated the trauma experienced by the participants, who were often too young and vulnerable to fully comprehend the repercussions of their involvement.

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4. Exclusive Interview with Joe Francis

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to an exclusive interview with Joe Francis. Hosted by Sachi Cole, the conversation unveils Francis's perspective on his past actions and the legacy of Girls Gone Wild.

When questioned about his brand's ethical implications, Francis muses, "It's a story about women's bodily autonomy. Do we have any of it? And if we do, do we get to make money off of it or not?" (49:33). This statement reflects his attempt to rationalize the exploitative practices, positioning them within the broader context of women's control over their own images.

The interview also touches upon modern platforms like OnlyFans, drawing parallels to Girls Gone Wild. Francis observes, "The profits being generated at the very top of the company... they're clearing infinitely more," (49:30) highlighting the persistent issues of financial inequity and exploitation in the realm of personal content monetization.

Throughout the conversation, Francis maintains a defensive stance, denying allegations of assault and minimizing the ethical breaches of his business practices. His demeanor during the interview underscores the complexity of his character—a blend of charm and calculated evasiveness.

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5. Reflections on Joe Francis as a Scamfluencer

Scamfluencers aims to dissect individuals who wield significant influence to perpetrate scams, and Joe Francis epitomizes this archetype. Sachi Cole asserts, "In the beginning of his rise and at the height of his power, I think he was a scamfluencer," (47:04) emphasizing his ability to manipulate media and public perception to sustain his empire.

The episode draws a line from Girls Gone Wild to contemporary platforms like Instagram and OnlyFans, questioning the extent to which modern digital influencers replicate Francis's exploitative tactics. Jameela Wignot adds, "It's always about ownership... Who owns our images?" (49:33), highlighting the enduring struggle over personal agency and financial benefits in the digital age.

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6. Conclusion: The Legacy of Joe Francis

The episode concludes with a somber reflection on Joe Francis's legacy. Despite the legal setbacks and the disintegration of his empire, Francis remains a symbol of the darker side of influencer culture. His ability to evade full accountability and continue exerting influence from afar in Mexico paints a picture of resilience interwoven with notoriety.

Sachi Cole poignantly remarks, "He has quietly and steadily been unspooled. There has been comeuppance for someone like Joe, but it just doesn't look like how we might expect it to look," (35:13) encapsulating the elusive nature of justice in high-profile fraud cases.

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Notable Quotes

• Sachi Cole (01:04): "Girls Gone Wild was a direct-to-consumer video series featuring young women flashing while on spring break."

• Joe Francis (14:15): "The flashing is just the tease at the top of a tape. What you would actually get was pornography performed by two non-professional girls."

• Sachi Cole (25:47): "From that moment on, she is a person whose identity... is fixed as this girl who did this dirty, shameful thing."

• Joe Francis (49:33): "It's a story about women's bodily autonomy. Do we have any of it? And if we do, do we get to make money off of it or not?"

• Sachi Cole (47:04): "In the beginning of his rise and at the height of his power, I think he was a scamfluencer."

• Sachi Cole (35:13): "He has quietly and steadily been unspooled. There has been comeuppance for someone like Joe, but it just doesn't look like how we might expect it to look."

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Final Thoughts

"Joe Francis: Indie Sleaze" serves as a comprehensive exploration of how charisma and influence can be weaponized to exploit and deceive. Through thorough investigative journalism and firsthand accounts, Scamfluencers not only chronicles the rise and fall of Girls Gone Wild but also prompts listeners to reflect on the broader implications of influencer-driven scams in today's digital landscape.

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Transcript

[Sachi Cole]

Wondery subscribers can listen to Scamfluencers early and ad free right now. Join Wonder plus in the Wondery app or Apple Podcasts. A note to our listeners. The story includes mention of sexual assault, sexually explicit content, physical assault, and a very bad word that Joe Francis called me in an email. Listen with care Wondry. Sarah, is there anything from the early 2000s that you think about? A lot, but like everyone else has forgotten?

[Sarah Hagie]

I mean, obviously there are so many, but I'll keep it short. This fake American Idol style show called WB Superstar USA that was trying to find the worst singer in America. I think about that a lot.

[Sachi Cole]

That's a good one. I remember that one too. Okay, well I obviously have one too and mine is Girls Gone Wild. Do you remember that company?

[Sarah Hagie]

I mean everyone remembers Girls Gone Wild because if you watched TV at night you would get the ads without fail. It would be like those girls taking their tops off, blurry around the boobs.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah, exactly right. Well Sarah, I actually went so deep on my early Aughts obsession that I reported on it for four years and now there's a three part docuseries on Peacock based on some of my reporting. For years, Girls Gone Wild was a direct to consumer video series featuring young women flashing while on spring break and in some cases doing a lot more. It became one of the hottest brands in the country until it all fell apart thanks to financial misdeeds, a once famous CEO and a lot of very brave women. It's September 2022 and Joe Francis is wandering around his 45,000 square foot mansion in southwest Mexico. A storm rolled along the beach the night before, so the sprawling property needs some tidying up. Joe is expecting guests today and he's a total perfectionist. So he's pacing from room to room, commanding his 30 full time staff members to clear palm fronds from his several pools, sweep the tennis courts, clean the floor to ceiling glass doors. Oh, and it's a hot day, so someone get him a glass of water. Joe's nearly 50 years old, though he looks much younger. He's about 6ft tall with tanned forearms and blindingly white teeth. And he's able to afford this mansion because of the fortune he made in his 20s as the creator of Girls Gone Wild. Joe has lived in Mexico for about a decade when he left the hectic LA party scene for this gated community on the beach. This mansion is his prized possession and his major source of income. It rents for five figures a night, but Joe isn't getting the house ready for A rich mogul or a celebrity? This afternoon, a reporter and photographer are coming by for an interview. He hasn't given an on the record interview with the reporter in nearly 10 years. But today he's hoping for the chance to set the record straight about his years and years and years of legal questions. Quagmires. Joe's been sued by just about everyone. Property managers, former colleagues, ex girlfriends, even casino magnate Steve Wynne. In fact, the reason Joe is in Mexico is because he'll be arrested if he returns to the United States. He owes money on a bankruptcy case and was supposed to serve time for an assault charge. But instead of paying back the money and going to jail, Joe packed his shit with his ex partner and went to his property in Mexico to keep the party going. But now Joe is pretty alone. His ex and their twin daughters left a few years ago after she accused Joe of abusing her, which Joe has denied. He's largely estranged from his family. His mother once filed for a protective order against him. So now Joe is without Girls Gone Wild, without the LA party scene, and without most of his friends, stuck reconsidering his own legacy.

[Sarah Hagie]

I mean, this sounds like something that would happen to a guy who has allegedly caused a lot of harm.

[Sachi Cole]

But you know, Sarah, today could really change Joe's reputation. He's about 30 minutes late to his meeting with the reporter, but he knows she'll wait. And eventually, Joe energetically bounds into the main living room wearing Louis Vuitton sunglasses, khaki shorts and a navy T shirt. The room faces the ocean, and the reporter is waiting for him on one of his pristine white couches when she hears his flip flops slap against the marble flooring. She turns to greet him and Sarah, take a guess who this sweet, naive little reporter is.

[Sarah Hagie]

I have a feeling this naive little reporter is, in fact my biggest hater. My biggest opp. A little girl named Sachi.

[Sachi Cole]

Sarah. That's right. It's me, M. Night Shyamalan. Couldn't write this twist if he wanted to. I went to Mexico in 2022 to interview Joe Francis as a part of my reporting about him and his once virgin, very lucrative company. Back then, I thought I knew pretty much everything there was to know about Joe and Girls Gone Wild. But it turns out that interview was just the beginning of a very long fall down the rabbit hole.

[Jameela Wignot]

The Grinch is back again to ruin your Christmas season with Tis the Grinch Holiday Podcast. Listen as his celebrity guests try to persuade the Grinch that there's more to love about the holiday season. Follow Tis the Grinch Holiday Podcast on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Grown ups enjoy bonus content of Tis the Grinch Holiday Podcast exclusively on Wondery.

[Sachi Cole]

Each morning it's a new opportunity, a chance to start fresh. Up first from NPR makes each morning an opportunity to learn and to understand. Choose to join the world every morning with Up First, a podcast that hands you everything going on across the globe and down the street, all in 15 minutes or less. Start your day informed and anew with up first by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts from Wondery. I'm Sachi Cole. And I'm Sarah Hagie and this is Scamflancers. Come and give me your attention. I won't ever learn my lesson. Turn my speakers to 11. I feel like a legend. Today we're talking to Emmy nominated director Jameela Wignot who directed Girls Gone the Untold Story. I've been reporting on Joe Francis for four years, mostly on the Internet. But once Jameela signed onto the project, she transformed abstract threads of reporting into one of the best documentaries I've ever seen. Am I saying that because I'm a co executive producer on the project? Shut up. Don't worry about it. Girls Gone the Untold Story gets into how CEO Joe Francis built his porn empire in the early aughts, how it all fell apart, and how many girls and women were taken advantage of in the process. Jameela joins us this week to try to answer our age old question. Is Joe Francis just a shrewd businessman or is he the ultimate scamfluencer? This is Joe Francis, indie sleaze legend. Well, to talk about the life times and many crimes of Joe Francis, I'm joined by Jameela Wignot, award winning documentary filmmaker who directed Girls Gone the Untold Story. Hi Jameela.

[Joe Francis]

Hi Sachi. It's so great to be here.

[Sachi Cole]

Jameela, you and I, we have different memories of Girls Gone Wild television spring break, what it was like culturally around women at the time. How would you explain spring break MTV culture in the early aughts?

[Joe Francis]

Crazy. I'm trying to still process spring break and MTV culture and all of that. Yeah, it was not something that I wanted to be a part of since nobody can see me. I am a black mixed race girl who grew up in Southern California, so I looked nothing like whatever the ideal type of woman was supposed to be. And I didn't really see myself on the beaches of any spring break destination dancing in a bikini. But it was meant to be aspirational. I think I felt like, as a woman, I was supposed to want to end up on one of those beaches. So it was both confusing because I felt distant from it, but also like, is this what I'm supposed to be? And it was very much the kind of atmosphere that I was coming of age in.

[Sachi Cole]

Do you remember when you first saw a Girls Gone Wild ad?

[Joe Francis]

I don't remember the first time I saw one. Like, I don't have an aha moment. I just feel like they were on and they were everywhere. And MTV Spring break show was already so weird. I remember being like, there is a camera for faces, there's a camera for boobs, and there's a camera for crotches and butts. Like, that already was so strange. And then the next thing was, like, this commercial with this weird marimba music, and people are screaming, and then, you know, boobs covered with, like, little stars show up, and you're just like, what?

[Sachi Cole]

Did you notice when the branding started to leave the zeitgeist, when you weren't seeing the ads anymore? Did you register that there was an absence of it?

[Joe Francis]

No, I don't think I did. And that was what was so strange about working on this project was sort of. It was everywhere, and then it was absolutely gone. And I couldn't tell if it was gone just because everybody had decided the fad that it was, like, wasn't meaningful or cool or whatever. And I can't even think about what exactly replaced it.

[Sachi Cole]

Okay, well, let's talk about our friend Joe Francis. How would you describe him? How do you explain Joe Francis?

[Joe Francis]

Oh, gosh. Charming.

[Sachi Cole]

He's very charming.

[Joe Francis]

He's tall, handsome.

[Sachi Cole]

Very handsome.

[Joe Francis]

I find him as handsome now as he was, like, circa 2011. Well, he's 51 now, but he's also gotten like that. He's, like, super cut now. Definitely doesn't eat any bread.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah, he's very vascular. He's very toothy and tan, and he's.

[Joe Francis]

Very boisterous and talks at a rapid clip.

[Sachi Cole]

He talks so fast. I found him really charming, and I totally was like, oh, I get it. Like, if this guy or an acolyte of this guy came up to me and I'm 18, and he, like, tells me I'm pretty and then offers me a drink and is like, let me see your boobs, I'd be like, sure. Which one? Like, I get it.

[Joe Francis]

Yes.

[Sachi Cole]

And I think people have an image in their head of, like, creepy dudes. These girls should have known better.

[Joe Francis]

No, I think that's the thing. Joe Francis is classically handsome in a way that draws people in. And he also is really, really, really confident and speaks with an authority that I find fascinating.

[Sachi Cole]

I felt like talking to him. I was like, oh, I feel like I'm losing grip with what I think reality is. Because his is so convincing.

[Joe Francis]

That's right. And that makes him incredibly tricky. But it also makes him the kind of guy who can walk into a room and sell people on things. And I feel like that is his secret weapon.

[Sachi Cole]

So now we're going to get into, like the evolution of the company. Joe Francis started in reality tv and then he created a direct to consumer video series called Banned From Television, which was basically a compilation of violent and disturbing TV outtakes.

[Joe Francis]

It was basically a compilation reel of material that was too graphic for mainstream broadcast or even cable broadcast at that point. I watched half of a tape and I just want to be clear, like he did not film that material, but it is a compilation of. It's a lot of brown people killing each other.

[Sachi Cole]

So yeah.

[Joe Francis]

Or it looks like working class people. So there's this weird indulgence in a particular kind of violence that feels classist and racist and strange and so particular to the 90s that I couldn't get through more than half of a full tape because it was just. It was totally overwhelming to me. And I could not believe that it was something that could legally be sold at the time.

[Sachi Cole]

How or why do you think Joe made the jump from putting together these compilation videos that are mostly about violence and then pivoting into Girls Gone Wild?

[Joe Francis]

Well, the best we can go on is the story that Joe Francis himself tells, which is that he was scrubbing through some material of a compilation that was meant to go into one of these Banned From Television tapes. And he stumbled upon a piece of footage that somebody had filmed of girls in New Orleans who were flashing. And he couldn't believe what was going on. And he was surprised and also turned on. And it reminded him of his own spring break trip that he took. And so he has this aha moment of like, oh, I should just start making a whole set of tapes that are just this, like, I think that's the next big thing. And he wasn't wrong.

[Sachi Cole]

He was right. It totally worked. But I guess I'm always curious and I never really came to a settled answer while we were working on this is how much of that self mythology he tells about the beginning of the company. Do you think that was all him? Do you think this was his idea? There's a lot of people who feel like it wasn't right.

[Joe Francis]

Well, interestingly, we know for a fact that Banned from Television wasn't his own idea. He had been presented a deck by a producer who was at this company called Real tv, where Joe Francis got his start in production. It was basically the initial idea of what would become banned from television. And we know this to be true because this producer later sued Joe Francis and a jury found him guilty of having stolen somebody else's idea. So it just raises questions about whether or not this aha moment of selling girls boobs on tape was also something that he generated himself or was somebody else's idea. But he does know that he has to have a good story. Like, yeah, it's not enough to just walk into a room and be like, boob tapes, take them. He knows that he needs to be like, let me tell you the deep story of where this boob tape comes from.

[Sachi Cole]

So crazy Drew. Yeah.

[Joe Francis]

And I think that he knows that that story has meaning for probably other young men.

[Sachi Cole]

So what was a Girls Gone Wild tape actually offering? A lot of people don't know what's on these tapes. And so what was on these tapes and what do you think was so appealing?

[Joe Francis]

I want to start by saying I started this project having no idea what was on a tape either.

[Sachi Cole]

Me too.

[Joe Francis]

Because I never bought one and I never knew anyone who had one. And so, you know, lo and behold, it turns out that the flashing is just the tease at the top of a tape. And what you would actually get once you bought it was a tape of pornography performed by two non professional girls who stumbled into this moment of pornography stardom. And it's very weird to say all of those words out loud today because it doesn't make sense to me ethically from jump. And then once I watched a tape, I was even more confused because you hear this running commentary of a man prompting and prompting and prompting and prompting throughout it. So then it's not pornography that happens because two women walk into a room and clothes come flying off and they have desire and they want to do something. It's like, oh, there's this exchange that happens where somebody gets them to do it. And I was like, where's the sex in these tapes? Where is the sensuality? Where is the desire? Where is any of that? And so that was then, like, oh, no.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah, that's the point. How were Girls Gone wealth staff trained to film these encounters? What was encouraged? And were there any legal boundaries that were laid out for them?

[Joe Francis]

That is a Phenomenal question. We were able to find a document that was sent out to third party vendors. And that document lays out very clearly how a cameraman is supposed to operate. They are supposed to be incredibly, like in all caps, be persistent. They are supposed to find the hottest girl in the room. The hottest girl is defined as a wafer thin, blonde with B cup breasts and no bigger and very narrow of hip, and go out and find that girl at the party and get her to flash or make out with a friend. Basically a set of instructions that make very clear that the cameraperson is not meant to take no for an answer. Yeah. So you are meant to go out to this party, find a young woman and harangue her until she eventually breaks down and gives in and does it.

[Sachi Cole]

And there was footage that we saw that, you know, once we did start going through some of the tapes where you hear them say no.

[Joe Francis]

That's right.

[Sachi Cole]

And they're trying to get out of the room or out of the space. And you hear how the camera guy convinces them or tries to get them to just to stay or to do one more thing.

[Joe Francis]

Right. And I think that's an interesting piece of kind of what I was talking about earlier where I was confused about the lack of desire, sexuality, pleasure in these tapes is that you do see women who say no and try to maneuver and figure out some way to work within this weird dynamic, but ultimately they do say yes. So this like, no means yes notion, which, like every soap opera I watched as a kid, that is what a wonderful man is all about.

[Sachi Cole]

He's supposed to fight for it.

[Joe Francis]

Yeah, he's supposed to fight for it. And I'm supposed to be coy or some weird dance of our species. But that is what's in those tapes. And so that is also part of the kink. Right.

[Sachi Cole]

Dark. So Joe was getting pretty rich. He founded Girls gone wild in 1997. He made $20 million in the first two years. In 2002, girls gone wild issued 83 titles and they sold 4.5 million videos and DVDs. How would you say that these numbers and all of these millions of dollars compare to what the subjects the girls were getting paid?

[Joe Francis]

Startling inadequacy or inequity, Rather, both the camera people that we've spoken to, both the participant who appeared on camera as part of the documentary series and other camera operators who we spoke with said that in particular, when trying to get a woman or her friends to do a scene, which in Girls Gone Wild parlance is basically the pornographic encounter, you were allowed to pay them some modest sum of money, like a hundred dollars. But you were encouraged not to offer that up right away. And this is complicated because this was 2000. This money was enough to be kind of meaningful at that time. And I think that's what, you know, one of the camera people explained to us that $100 at that time could have bought you like another night at whatever spring break town you were in.

[Sachi Cole]

You could get one more day on vacation.

[Joe Francis]

It's like just enough to be really meaningful to somebody who is between the ages of 18 and 22, which a lot of these women were. It's effective. But what that was buying Jo Frances in the Girls Gone Wild empire was a in perpetuity use of these images of these women forever. It doesn't go away. These things are still out there. And so if you think about that, it's like you're 18, you're drunk. It's very transactional. You've been sort of persuaded and coerced and now 20 years later, they still own your image. And there is something that feels like a scam in that.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah, for sure. And speaking of scams, we have to talk about Joe Francis tangled web of lawsuits. Girls Gone Wild makes him a multimillionaire before he's 30. But his empire starts to crumble when Joe gets into some serious legal trouble. He's accused of everything from cheating on his taxes to failing to keep proper age records of the women he was filming. To pissing off a Vegas billionaire by not making good on gambling debts. Find out which accusations stick and which ones help bring him down after the break. Alright, here's the thing. It's kind of gross out, which is why I like to treat myself to a little something and I think you should too, without spending a fortune. That's where Quince comes in. With Quince, you can treat yourself to everyday luxury at an affordable price. Yeah.

[Sarah Hagie]

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[Sachi Cole]

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[Sarah Hagie]

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[Sarah Hagie]

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[Sachi Cole]

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[Sarah Hagie]

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[Sachi Cole]

Services and debit card provided by The Bancorp Bank N.A. or Stride Bank N.A. myPay line of credit provided by the Bancorp Bank NA or Stride Bank NA MyPay eligibility requirements apply. Not available in all states. MyPay credit limits range $20 to $500 $2 fee to get funds instantly spot me eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Fees apply at out of network ATMs and for OTC withdrawals. I feel like I okay, Jameela. Let's talk about the big lawsuits that shaped Joe Francis life and eventually lead to the downfall of Girls Gone Wild. Let's start at the beginning. In 2006, Joe pled guilty to federal charges that he failed to properly track the girls who appeared in the Girls Gone Wild videos. He agreed to pay a $500,000 fine. And then Joe gets targeted by the IRS. In April 2007, Joe was indicted by a federal grand jury in Nevada for federal tax evasion. The indictment alleges that his companies claimed more than $20 million in false business expenses on corporate income tax returns in 2002 and 2003. The company paid for Joe's Mexican house, his Porsche, and other items. And the indictment also charges that Joe used offshore bank accounts to conceal income. In the fall of 2009, Joe Francis reaches an agreement to plead guilty to filing false tax returns, and he agrees to pay $250,000 in restitution. And then Joe faces the first of two major lawsuits he'll have to deal with in Panama City Beach, Florida.

[Joe Francis]

For people who don't know though, like Explain how big of a deal Panama City beach was from the late 1980s even into the early 2000s.

[Sachi Cole]

That was MTV Spring Break in the Bible Belt. So the kinds of people you're getting is a wild mix of locals who hate it, think it's like the devil coming to town. Local girls who love it and are, like, really letting loose because they're having the time of their life. And then tourists, people from all over who are partying for two weeks, and Girls Gone Wild was there for a month. Over the years, Girls Gone Wild and Joe had earned a reputation amongst the locals, especially with the mayor and Bay county law enforcement. In April 2003, county officials arrested Joe and several other Girls Gone Wild employees under suspicion of possessing cocaine, amongst other charges. They also raided Joe's rental house, seized his Gulfstream private jet, and his very precious silver Ferrari. And they confiscated more than 175 hours of footage taken in Panama City Beach. But here's the thing. This investigation was all done under the RICO act, which is typically used to bring down mob syndicates or drug rings. This strategy backfired big time. In January 2007, a judge dropped many of the felony charges, citing a lack of evidence. The remaining felony counts charged Joe with using minors in sexual performances and conspiring to use minors in sexual performances. One thing Florida law enforcement did manage to do was put Joe Francis behind bars, at least for a little bit. In 2007, Joe was put in jail for contempt of court for screaming at prosecutors in a different civil case and the tax evasion charges. About a year later, Joe pled no contest to the remaining criminal charges of child abuse and prostitution, and he's finally able to leave jail. But while Joe thought he was done with Panama City and his countless lawsuits there, the county had other plans for him. In 2011, four women appeared in court in a civil lawsuit against Joe Francis. They claimed that they were all under 18 when they were filmed for Girls Gone Wild in Panama City Beach. Allegedly, the youngest was 13 when she was filmed. So, Jameela, can you describe what some of the consequences were that these girls endured as a result of being on these tapes?

[Joe Francis]

I don't think people really understand what it means for a 13 year old girl to have been taped by Girls Gone Wild, to have had that image of her made public to literally every single person that she knows in her life. From that moment on, she is a person whose identity, as far as the world around her is concerned, is fixed as this girl who did this dirty, shameful thing that good girls don't do so, like, you are just carrying this baggage of having to explain yourself or to laugh it off or to drop out of school or to not end up going to college the way that you hope that you someday would. 13 is just so very young. That's the youngest girl in the case. The other victims here, couple of them were filmed in a shower scene. A couple of them were taken into a room and were asked to touch Joe francis penis for 50 bucks each. It still continues to surprise me that we cannot have empathy for these girls or what they went through, because they're all supposed to know better. The shame that they feel, the weaponization of that shame by the people around them, and then the burden that they have to carry as having agreed to do a bad thing. Yeah, that stays with them. It created psychological effects for many of these girls. They became addicted to drugs. They became alcoholics. Like they were in court explaining the reality of what they experienced and then being told that they were liars and making something up in order to get a monetary sum out of Joe Francis.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah. When I went down to do some reporting in Panama City where Girls Gone Wild was filmed, a lot of the locals I talked to remembered this case, and they were not sympathetic to the girls. They thought all the girls deserved it.

[Joe Francis]

Oh, still, still.

[Sachi Cole]

The feeling was still, you know, this big city guy came in and tried to ruin our town. But the problem is, is that these girls should have known better. Why were they going to the beach during spring break?

[Joe Francis]

Right.

[Sachi Cole]

And several women with similar stories had sued Joe Francis in criminal court, and they lost. So what do you think these women were seeking by going through the civil courts?

[Joe Francis]

I think there was a hope that if Joe Francis was found guilty, it might put a stop to the company that he had.

[Sachi Cole]

Right.

[Joe Francis]

And to other women in their wake finding themselves in the same situation. Right.

[Sachi Cole]

So in March 2011, Joe Francis decides to represent himself at trial. He personally cross examines the victims and their mothers in front of an all female jury. I mean, how strange is it to have a defendant representing himself, cross examining the moms in particular, like reading how he was speaking to their mothers, the questions he's asking of them, and the fact that they have to answer this to the person that they believe assaulted their daughters.

[Joe Francis]

It seems incredibly painful. Joe, in his audio interview with Saatchi, is very gleeful in the ways that he just went for the jugular with these victims and their. And their mothers, that he believed that they were liars and he was gonna. He was there to just destroy them. I Can't imagine having to defend yourself against a person who you believe was the perpetrator of harm.

[Sachi Cole]

What is his defense? Effectively, like, Joe denies almost everything that he's been accused of, and he denies central parts of this case as well. What was his denial in this? What was his defense in court?

[Joe Francis]

The defense that Joe presents is that these women lied about their ages to participate in a Girls Gone Wild tape and to sign a release which is what each of them did end up signing. You must be 18 years or older.

[Sachi Cole]

Yes.

[Joe Francis]

And so that's his defense, is that they asked the girls what their ages were and that each of the girls had said that they were 18 years old. And so this was a case of having been lied to. And, you know, what hope could he have of knowing in that moment? And so they filmed these girls and he would never, ever, ever film an underaged girl that that was not neither an interest of his nor a demographic that the Girls Gone Wild brand was seeking out.

[Sachi Cole]

Well, after the week long trial, the jury finds that Joe's behavior is indeed monstrous, but he does not owe any of the four women any damages. What was jury deliberation like? I think a lot of people sort of thought like, oh, surely he's going to get something, even a slap on the wrist. This is an all female jury. But instead they really let him walk away.

[Joe Francis]

Yeah. So we spoke with a psychologist who was there, and it sounds like the jury deliberation was pretty intense. It is not clear that they were all necessarily on the same page. It seems like they were really struggling to come to a decision here. And I think from the outside observers, you know, it was an all female jury that was left to decide the fate of, you know, these women. And it's interesting that you would, I think at first thought, say, oh, they're gonna be prejudicial because they're all women and they're gonna side with the other women. Intriguingly, they don't. The reporting we found was that the jury comes back in that one of the jurors is crying, and they end up deciding not to award any financial damages to the victims. They also don't find him liable for intentional infliction of harm. They find him liable for basically gross behavior that is untoward, that like, no society could possibly find that he was behaving in a quote, unquote, good way, but it wasn't an intentional infliction of harm and therefore no damages were awarded.

[Sachi Cole]

This whole event, the trial, all these claims that are made, does this impact Joe's reputation at all or the business in 2011.

[Joe Francis]

I mean, it does and it doesn't. It's sort of happening at this moment when I think Girls Gone Wild is in many ways being eclipsed by other social media forces. So the company is sort of starting to fall. But I don't think anyone sees him as having done anything bad because of the decision that gets made. To the degree that Girls Gone Wild starts to dissipate in its power, he still gets to walk away and claim that he was victorious, that he was vindicated, that he was himself victimized by girls who effectively harmed him. That's his take. And the jury agreed with him.

[Sachi Cole]

They did, yeah. Well, around the same time that the civil case is filed against Joe, another lawsuit comes around in Panama City that actually puts a dent in his empire. Joe is making nearly $30 million a year from Girls Gone Wild, and he's become a true celebrity. He dated Kourtney Kardashian for a while. Jennifer Aniston vacations at his house in Mexico, and he spent a lot of time and money in Las Vegas. And then in July 2008, Steve Wynn sued Joe for $2 million, claiming that Joe had not paid for losses at Wynn's casino. And seemingly unable to help himself, during a hearing in that case, Joe reportedly jumped to his feet and told the judge that he heard from Quincy Jones that Steve is threatening to kill him and bury him in the desert. He then repeated those claims to tmz and on Good Morning America, he also claimed that Steve was deceiving high rollers at his casinos. So Steve sues Joe for defamation and slander. And this lawsuit feels different than the others because Steve Wynn has the time and the money to financially destroy Joe Francis. And he's maybe the only person who could.

[Joe Francis]

That's right. It's a strange turn of events to have had just so many numerous instances of women who were taped come forward, attempt to reclaim their images, attempt to just get off tapes, attempt to be taken off the covers of things, you know, case after case after case. And the company keeps chugging along. And then he goes up against this adversary who is just like the biggest fish. And financially, I don't think Joe Francis, as an individual or his company were in a place to take this on. Yeah. And then literally in the trial, they just call Quincy Jones to the bench, and he swears on the Bible and is like, I didn't say that. Yeah, okay, thanks. I'm out. Quincy Jones out.

[Sachi Cole]

So the lawsuits take several years to work their way through the courts and then in 2012, juries rule in Steve's favor, and they say that Joe Owens owes Steve more than $47 million for slander and defamation. And then in 2013, Girls Gone Wild declares bankruptcy.

[Joe Francis]

It's confusing to be wrestling with a subject like Joe Francis and the questions surrounding the ethics of the brand he created and to have it be undone ultimately, through this, completely out of left field.

[Sachi Cole]

I always got the impression that Joe kind of wanted to be like Hugh Hefner, and he was a little frustrated that there were these uber rich businessmen who weren't really letting him into the club like Steve Wynn, just didn't like him. And then when he got the chance to take Joe down, he took it. There isn't really concrete schadenfreude for someone like Joe. He isn't in jail. He hasn't really had to pay any consequences for any of his actions, but he has quietly and steadily been unspooled. There has been comeuppance for someone like Joe, but it just doesn't look like how we might expect it to look. So we've talked about lawsuits against Girls Gone Wild for its tax evasion and against Joe for running a shady business and not repaying his gambling debts. But throughout Joe's life, he's also faced accusations of sexual assault and violence. The case that ultimately drives Joe into hiding in Mexico typifies the frightening kinds of abuse that he's been accused of by several women. So in January 2011, Joe met three women at a supper club in Hollywood and took them back to his Bel Air mansion after a night of partying. And then he refused to let them leave. And he was accused of attacking one of the women, bashing her head into his tile floor.

[Joe Francis]

Yes. Jo's interaction with women seems, by their accounts, to have a point at which a small thing escalates into a very physical confrontation, often violent confrontation. That's just one example of this kind of story, you know. Another is the incident that he has with Jade Nicole at a bar in LA where after spending an evening going around a club, kissing women who were not his now ex partner, Abby Wilson, he then tries to kiss Abby Wilson and she's, you know, trying to tell him no. So Jade Nicole, as a friend of hers, basically pours a drink on his shoulder as a kind of like, fuck you, dude move. And on security footage, you see him turn around, grab Jade Nicole by the hair, fling her to the floor, and then he proceeded to start to kick and beat her.

[Sachi Cole]

And there is footage of this.

[Joe Francis]

There's footage of that.

[Sachi Cole]

It's hard to watch, but it's very clear, like, how things are happening and the proportionality of his response.

[Joe Francis]

That's right. And it's interesting because a lot these allegations of physical violence include up to his own mother being assaulted by him, which we uncovered through your reporting. And so there's a restrain order that his mother had filed against him.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah. In the restraining order, it says that he had, like, flipped over his sister and that he was screaming at her. And again, Joe has denied to me and to other journalists that he's ever assaulted any woman ever in any context.

[Joe Francis]

Right. It feels like he's a very unpredictable person by these accounts. It feels that way. Like, that there could be a moment where he just turns on a dime and it's real rage.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah. At this point, are news outlets taking claims against Joe more seriously? What's sort of the, like, collective attitude around him at this point? Because he's not like the playboy he was. Things are starting to change.

[Joe Francis]

Things are starting to change for Joe at this point. I mean, I think it's a Gawker article that dubs him the douche of the decade, which is an article he was very, very offended by, and then he wanted to get it taken down. He's like, that's just not a thing. You. Even cable news stories are referring to him as, like, a porn king or a smut peddler. There is this kind of change that's happening where it feels like people understand maybe what the brand is. They don't seem to have, like, a huge problem with it, or nobody's questioning the ethics of it as deeply. But he can no longer, it seems, walk in the same circles that he once did.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah. Yeah. In August 2013, he was found guilty of three counts of false imprisonment and one assault likely to cause great bodily injury. And he was sentenced to 270 days in jail. And then, Jameela, he fled to Mexico. Why did he leave the country? What was he hoping for?

[Joe Francis]

He doesn't want to serve his jail sentence. That's one reason. But actually, the case is going to go through an appeals court. I mean, he can retry the case. You know, I don't know. There seem to be other options than just leaving the country. Another lawyer who we interviewed is like, 9 out of 10 people would never do this.

[Sachi Cole]

No, they wouldn't.

[Joe Francis]

Just to not have to serve this sentence.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah. He was really afraid of jail.

[Joe Francis]

Yeah. I don't think Joe Francis is a person who likes to be confined to spaces. And so I'm sure the specter of having to go back to prison is not one he was eagerly awaiting. But now he's in the situation that he's in where he cannot come back.

[Sachi Cole]

Okay, well, for now, we're going to leave Joe in the prison of his own making. When we come back, we're going to Fast forward to 2020, when I started digging into the story and landed an interview with Joe himself.

[Jameela Wignot]

Hello, ladies and germs, boys and girls. The Grinch is back again to ruin your Christmas season with Tis the Grinch Holiday Podcast. After last year, he's learned a thing or two about hosting, and he's ready to rant against Christmas cheer and roast his celebrity guests like chestnuts on an open fire. You can listen with the whole family as guest stars like Jon Hamm, Brittany Broski, and Danny DeVito try to persuade the mean old Grinch that there's a lot to love about the insufferable holiday season. But that's not all. Somebody stole all the children of Whoville's letters to Santa, and everybody thinks the Grinch is responsible. It's a real Whoville whodunit. Can Cindy Lou and Max help clear the Grinch's name? Grab your hot cocoa and cozy slippers to find out. Follow Tis the Grinch Holiday Podcast on the Wonder Mystery app or wherever you get your podcasts. Unlock weekly Christmas mystery bonus content and listen to every episode ad free by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app, Spotify or Apple Podcasts.

[Sachi Cole]

I feel like a legend.

[Joe Francis]

So Sachi, what made you think of Joe Francis and Girls Gone Wild as the subject of a story?

[Sachi Cole]

I knew Joe Francis as like a LA weirdo. I was reading Perez Hilton every day in high school. Cause I would like, I wanted to be a writer. And I was like, this is a job. This is yelling people's a job. Which it is. And I do it very ably. But I would read all of it. And Joe was always like, out with all these famous people, and I didn't really get a handle on who he was. And I had looked up Girls Gone Wild, and I was like, what is it? Like a flashing company, Whatever. And then I was working at BuzzFeed News and Carolina Vetslaviak, who you and I know very well, and she's one of the producers, is Gen X. And she was like, what happened to that guy? And I was like, yeah, I don't know. And so we started looking at it, and as soon as I realized that the tapes were porn, I was like, oh, this is something else. Obviously there had been lots of lawsuits, and by the time I was really looking into him, he was very much ensconced in Mexico, was not coming back. But, like, I didn't know that much about him as a person. I knew the company had shut down. I didn't know why. I thought it would just be like, this is gonna be a funny nostalgia story about this weird company. And that it was probably bad for us. Like everything is, but not like, keep you up at night bad. And then we, we looked into the legal situation that was happening in Panama City with him in Florida. And that's where we were like, oh, this is where he got in trouble. And so we first started by going to the judges and all of the people who worked there on his cases. And then eventually we were like, oh, they screwed up. So they're never gonna talk about it, but Joe might.

[Joe Francis]

What made you think that Joe Francis would do an interview with you guys?

[Sachi Cole]

It seems like everyone who approached Joe was asking him to tell his side of the story or to address specific allegations. And I wanted him to do that. But I was also specifically interested in talking to him about the Panama City beach criminal case, the one where they pursued RICO charges. And almost all of the evidence got thrown out. I don't know for sure why Joe agreed, but I do get the sense that he felt like the case was being botched by law enforcement. And that equates to him having never done anything wrong. And he really wanted to set this record straight. And by this time he's living in Mexico all by himself. His ex partner, Abby, has left with their two kids. It was the height of the pandemic. No one's really traveling to visit him. I think he'd been alone for a long time and I think he wanted a chat.

[Joe Francis]

Did you start to build a relationship, you know, with him before going down? Did you guys sort of have a back and forth exchange?

[Sachi Cole]

For a while we talked on the phone often. He would text me a lot, he would send me a lot of emails. But I. I didn't know what was gonna happen when. When I would ask him the question that he doesn't like. Cause I hadn't done a lot of that over the phone. I was just trying to keep him warm. Cause you don't wanna get into an argument that early with Joe Francis. But.

[Joe Francis]

Right.

[Sachi Cole]

I'd. I had already read Claire Hoffman's story in the LA Times from like 2006, and that story begins and ends with him assaulting her. Like, he demands that she kiss her. He forces himself on her. He twists her arm. He's shoving her around. Like, it's really brutal. And so I was pretty aware, like, whatever I might think about him right now. Yeah, he might be polite to me. Like, I don't know how long that's gonna last.

[Joe Francis]

Right.

[Sachi Cole]

So they sent me with security and a driver, and they sat outside for nine hours in that car and just waited. And I went in there, and the second I walked into his house, my phone stopped having service because it's a dead zone in there. So my options are to join Joe Francis WI Fi network, or to just be like, I don't have service in here, so I didn't have service in there.

[Joe Francis]

Wow.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah.

[Joe Francis]

Wow. So I'm curious. What were your expectations? And did you feel like your expectations were met? Were they not? Were you surprised by anything?

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah. Like, the second I met him, I was like, oh, this is gonna be tough. I mean, he really does talk to you. Like a toddler that's getting distracted by, like, the things in the room, and you're trying to keep him focused.

[Joe Francis]

And also, he doesn't speak in a kind of linear fashion.

[Sachi Cole]

No. He's circuitous. He loses his train of thought, which is so interesting because, like, in the tape, he's not angry. Like, when I spent time with him, he never gets mad. Not really. Like, even when I disagree with him, he just, like, takes it on the chin and tells me I'm wrong and keeps it moving. There were a few times he got kind of frustrated, but mostly he's bored. Like, you can hear him be like, are you gonna ask me this again? Like, how many times do we have to go over it? And it's like, well, we're talking about rape allegations, so I have to ask you a few times.

[Joe Francis]

Right.

[Sachi Cole]

But he never gets furious. Almost like he's not really taking it seriously until later when the story is published. And then he takes it seriously.

[Joe Francis]

Right, Right. And what was his reaction when the article was published?

[Sachi Cole]

When the article came out, he wrote several emails to me and everybody else on the buzzfeed servers calling me a cunt and the several other names that kind of uncreative, honestly, is the problem. And then when the documentary came out, he didn't say much, but he did a podcast appearance, like, a week after, saying that it was all false but not really getting into specifics.

[Joe Francis]

Right.

[Sachi Cole]

What would you say was Joe's reaction to the documentary?

[Joe Francis]

He is saying that the documentary is inaccurate, that we have our facts wrong. His reaction is one of Being aggrieved. He is, in his mind, the victim in the story still.

[Sachi Cole]

So in every Scamflancers episode, we are trying to assess if somebody is a scamflancer, which is someone who is kind of pulling some sort of scam, some ripoff, but they're using their influence. That is a huge part of it. They're wielding a lot of influence around other people. Do you think that Joe Francis is a Scamflancer?

[Joe Francis]

I think that in the beginning of his rise and at the height of his power, I think he was a scamfluencer. I think he was able to harness media and his celebrity connections to present a vision of what his company was doing that stands at odds with all the allegations of numerous, numerous women who were taped by that company. And so I think he was. I don't think he is. Now, again, anecdotally, I sort of started asking very young people who, you know, inconceivably to me were born after Girls Gone Wild. I'm so old. I'm so old. You know, they're like, faces. It, like, doesn't compute. It makes absolutely no sense to them.

[Sachi Cole]

It seems almost puerile to them.

[Joe Francis]

It's both like, why would anyone make that? Why would anyone do that?

[Sachi Cole]

What's the point?

[Joe Francis]

How could that person have become so influential? Every time I talk to young people about it and I try to explain it, I start to get confused because as I'm explaining it, it starts to make less and less sense. But it made a lot of sense at the time.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah, it was the 90s, is really. We were saying that a lot. Has working on this made you think differently about Instagram OnlyFans? I mean, that is like the natural conclusion of a story like this, where it's like, well, now women can own their own sexuality, which is great for whatever purpose. Does it make you think a little about what all of that means, what Girls Gone Wild has wrought? If you think it has wrought anything.

[Joe Francis]

It does make me think about things like Instagram and OnlyFans. And I'm on the one hand, I'm like, no harm, no foul. I really don't have any problematic feelings about sex, work and pornography and any of that stuff. It's like, that's fine. I think in terms of the labor and who owns what and who's making the most out of it. That, yes, of course, an individual OnlyFan user is making some money, but the profits being generated at the very top of the company that allows the platform to exist and the Service fees and all that, like, they're clearing infinitely more. This idea of like an 18 year old girl in Panama City beach taking $100 to be taped in terms of just the finances of it, the economics of it, that doesn't feel that distinct from an onlyfans person making $1,000, even $30,000 if somebody at the top owns the business apparatus.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah. So it is really still about ownership.

[Joe Francis]

Always at the heart of this is really a story about women's bodily autonomy. Do we have any of it? And if we do, do we get to make money off of it or not? Do we control our images? That's the big theme that I think is at the heart of this story, which is what women have control over, what we're responsible for, who carries the shame. These are such old ideas.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah.

[Joe Francis]

It's so interesting with Girls Gone Wild where like, I think it's very important for people to understand that the commercials made it seem like there was choice, that people were making active decisions, conscious decision, well thought out. And they're like, oh, you have a camera and I want to be here for it. Surely there were some of those women, but there were a lot of cases where a woman was approached, it's in the spur of a moment that she makes a choice or doesn't make a choice. One of the women we feature, she doesn't even remember doing it. That's how inebriated she was when it happened. And so it's also this odd thing where the terms of the choice are so murky or non existent in the worst cases. And that does feel like something that's different. And in fact, at some point the brand had become so popular, college women in these towns were like, I mean, yeah, but give me like the jig was up. They're like, what do you mean you only want to pay me $50 or $100? Like, you're literally Girls Gone Wild. You have three vans, your neighbor is Quincy Jones. Like, how is your organization not able to pay me? And people were probably thinking more deeply about the consequences at that point too. So is this scammy enough?

[Sachi Cole]

I mean, I certainly feel like I've been ripped off. So yes. Jameela, thank you so much for coming on Scamflancers. Thank you for making this documentary. I'm so grateful to you and I hope you never have to talk to me again.

[Joe Francis]

Thank you, Sachi. You have given me an opportunity to open the black box that was my coming of age and boy, there's a reason I put that on a shelf and tried to like not think about it. Yeah, I'm really sorry but it's important and so thank you for getting me to like dig through it. You're welcome.

[Sachi Cole]

If you like Scamplancers, you can listen to every episode early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime. Members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey. This is Joe Francis, indie sleaze. I'm Sachi Kol.

[Sarah Hagie]

And I'm Sarah Hagie. If you have a tip for us on a story that you think we should cover, please email [e-mail] thanks to.

[Sachi Cole]

Jamila Wignot for joining us for this episode. All three parts of Girls Gone Wild, the Untold Story are streaming now on Peacock Fact checking by Lexi Perry Sound design by John Lloyd. Our music supervisor is Scott Velasquez for Freeze on Sync. Our managing producer is Desi Blaylock. Our senior managing producer is Callum Plews, Janine Cornello and Stephanie Jens, our development producers. Our associate producer is Charlotte Miller. Our producer is Julie McGruder. Our senior producers are Sarah Enny and Ginny Blume. Our executive producers are Jenny Lauer, Beckman, Marshall Lewis and Aaron O'Flaherty. For Wondery.

[Jake Warren]

I'm Jake Warren, and in our first season of Finding, I set out on a very personal quest to find the woman who saved my mum's life. You can listen to Finding Natasha right now exclusively on Wondery. In Season two, I found myself caught up in a new journey to help someone I've never even met. But a couple of years ago, I came across a social media post by a person named Loti. It read in part three years ago.

[Joe Francis]

Today that I attempted to jump off.

[Sachi Cole]

This bridge, but this wasn't my time to go.

[Jake Warren]

A gentleman named Andy saved my life.

[Sachi Cole]

I still haven't found him.

[Jake Warren]

This is a story that I came across purely by chance, but it instantly moved me and it's taken me to a place where I've had to consider some deeper issues around mental health. This is season two of Finding, and this time, if all goes to plan, we'll be finding Andy. You can listen to Finding Andy and Finding Natasha exclusively and ad free on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts or Spotify.