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- [00:00]
A
Hey, Scamfluencers fans, Sarah here. If you love the drama Deception and mind blowing reveals, Wondery is your VIP ticket to more ad free episodes. Early access to the juiciest scandals and deep dives you won't find anywhere else. Get the full Scamfluencers experience. Sign up today. Sachi, have you ever watched a movie and just been like so inspired it changed your life?
- [00:32]
B
Oh, for sure.
- [00:33]
A
What was it?
- [00:35]
B
Probably that Helen Keller movie they kept making us watch in junior high.
- [00:39]
A
How did it change your life? Learned a lot. Okay, we'll talk about that later. I mean the real answer's not better. It's probably RoboCop. Yeah, okay, that makes a lot more sense. RoboCop makes sense. For me it was like Harriet the Spy maybe. Oh yeah, because I was like, okay, that's me. Need to be meddling and writing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- [01:01]
B
Lizzie McGuire movie maybe. True Swan Princess. That was profound.
- [01:05]
A
She rejects him. It's a great movie. You're really showing yourself right now. I really appreciate it. I know who I am. Well, today I'm going to tell you about a woman who after watching a movie, felt so emboldened to change the entire course of her life leading to, you guessed it, a very elaborate Ponzi scheme. It's a gray overcast day in February 201938 year old Michael Cochran is working from home in a small town in West Virginia when he hears a knock at the front door. Michael isn't expecting anyone, but he's not concerned. He's used to friends and neighbors stopping by. Michael is athletic and conventionally handsome with brown hair and a magnetic smile. On the surface, he's living the American dream. He and his wife Natalie run a successful government contracting business. They have two kids, a big two story house and a large manicured lawn. They're beloved members of the community and are sponsoring an upcoming bingo fundraiser for youth sports. Their donation, several semi automatic rifles to use as prizes.
- [02:17]
B
Sure, I don't see anything wrong with this.
- [02:20]
A
Yeah, I think that's perfect for youth sports.
- [02:24]
B
They have to learn anti coordination somehow.
- [02:27]
A
Yep. But when Michael opens his front door, he doesn't see a friend or neighbor. Instead there's an employee from the sewer utility company here to turn off the water because Michael and Natalie haven't paid their bill. This is the last straw for Michael. Their company has been bringing in hundreds of millions of dollars. But for the past few months, he and Natalie have been having cash flow problems. Michael thinks it's ridiculous that they're technically worth millions of dollars but don't have the cash to pay their sewer bill. Natalie handles all of their finances, so when she gets home, Michael confronts her about the unpaid bill. With her soft brown hair and heart shaped face, Natalie looks like the sweet girl next door. She says that she's handled it. The water won't be shut off. Things have been tough lately, but she reassures Michael it will all be taken care of soon. She says she'll book them a flight to Virginia the next day so they can meet with the bank in person and sort things out together. But none of that is true. Michael doesn't know it, but Natalie has been letting Michael believe that he's rich from running a government contracting business. In reality, it's a Ponzi scheme. Natalie has been stealing from their friends and family for months. Michael's questions threaten to reveal the truth. So tomorrow, Michael won't be boarding a plane to Virginia. He'll be in the icu, thanks to his loving wife. Have you ever found a $20 bill in your jeans when you weren't expecting it?
- [04:08]
B
The best feeling. And honestly, that's what it felt like when I remembered that I had an old retirement account worth way more than I thought.
- [04:15]
A
Exactly. Most of us have random accounts floating around 401ks from old jobs, savings scattered in different banks, maybe even investments we forgot about.
- [04:25]
B
The problem is, if you can't see the full picture, you're probably leaving money on the table. That's why I love Monarch Money.
- [04:32]
A
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- [04:50]
B
Use code scampod@monimalmoney.com in your browser for half off your first year. That's 50% off your first year at monarchmoney.com with code scampod.
- [05:02]
C
Morning, Zoe. Got donuts.
- [05:04]
A
Jeff Bridges, why are you still living above our garage?
- [05:07]
C
Well, I dig the mattress and I want to be in a T mobile commercial like you. Teach me. So, Dana.
- [05:13]
A
Oh, no, I'm not really prepared. I couldn't possibly at T Mobile get the new iPhone 17 Pro on them. It's designed to be the most powerful iPhone yet and has the ultimate pro camera system.
- [05:25]
C
Wow, Impressive. Let me try. T mobile is the best place to get iPhone 17 Pro because they've got the best network. Nice.
- [05:33]
A
Jeffrey, you heard them.
- [05:35]
C
T Mobile is the best place to get the new iPhone 17 Pro. On us with eligible traded in any condition. So what are we having for lunch?
- [05:43]
A
Dude, my work here is done.
- [05:45]
C
The 24 month bill credits on Experience beyond for well qualified customers plus tax and $35 device connection charge credit send and balance due if you pay off earlier Cancel Finance Agreement iPhone 17 Pro 256 gigs $1099.99 and new line minimum $100 plus a month plan with auto, PayPal, taxes and FE Best mobile network in the US based on analysis by Ooklev Speed Test Intelligence data 1H 2025 Visit t mobile.com.
- [06:05]
A
From Wondery I'm Sarah Hagie.
- [06:07]
B
And I'm Sachi Kol and this is Scamfluencers.
- [06:11]
A
Come and give me your attention. I will ever learn my lesson. Turn my speakers to 11 I feel like a Legend Natalie Cochran seems like she had it all. A good job as a pharmacist, a loving husband and two kids. But then she quit her job to become a government contractor and started raking in dough. Or so she claimed. Behind the scenes, Natalie was running a classic Ponzi scheme, scamming friends and family with fake contracts, fake government emails, and even fake cancer. But when the walls start closing in, lies alone won't be enough to save her. So Natalie makes a fateful fatal choice that ruins her dream life forever. This is Natalie Cochran, the Pharmacist Femme Fatale Part 1 Legend It's 1998 and 17 year old Natalie Jessup is working the cash register at Dick's Sporting Goods in Beckley, West Virginia. As the youngest of three siblings, she's used to being coddled. But Natalie's working hard to make some extra cash before she starts college next year. It's a basic day in retail until she looks up from her scanner and sees a cute 17 year old boy walk in. It's Michael Cochran. Natalie smiles at him and they flirt it up while she checks him out. After that, Michael seems to find excuse after excuse to visit Natalie at Dick's, and these two opposites attract. Natalie is her high school's valedictorian and wants to study piano and broadcasting. Michael is a hunky athlete who got his first set of barbells when he was just 10 years old. By now he plays football, baseball and basketball and power lifts. Natalie and Michael quickly become high school sweethearts. They're so committed to each other that Natalie turns down a full ride to Concord College. Instead, she takes out loans and follows Michael to West Virginia University where he studies computer management and she goes into Pharmacy studies. Natalie is head over heels for Michael, and the feeling is mutual. He proposes in 1999, when they've known each other for less than two years. Michael's mother, Donna urges them to slow things down. But they get married less than six months later while they're both still in college.
- [08:35]
B
I mean, Sarah, you know how I feel about marriage. Marriage while in college? No, no, no. Bad idea.
- [08:42]
A
Yeah, I really don't think it's a good idea for them. Five years later, in 2005, Natalie graduates with a doctorate in pharmacy. Just a year later, she gives birth to their first child, a daughter. At this point, Michael is working in IT while Natalie is a full time pharmacist. The family settles down in Daniels, West Virginia, near their hometowns. And about two years after that, Natalie gives birth to their son. Over the next five years, Natalie and Michael become deeply involved in their local community. They're regulars at church. And Michael starts coaching youth baseball. Natalie becomes a youth sports league treasurer. They soon become the IT couple of West Virginia youth sports.
- [09:28]
B
That's the most tragic sentence I've ever heard in the English language. A couple of West Virginia youth sports. That's a tough one.
- [09:35]
A
Listen, I'm taking any IT couple status I can. You're right.
- [09:39]
B
I should be so lucky.
- [09:40]
A
Yes. They become especially close with Michael's co coach Chris Davis and his wife Jennifer. The two couples have a lot in common. Their kids are similar ages, they're all churchgoing Christians, and they love hanging out. They even go on vacations together. But it's not all fun and games. They really show up for each other. When Chris and Jennifer's son is diagnosed with type 1 diabetes, Natalie goes above and beyond to support them. By now she's become a pharmaceutical expert in diabetes and she helps them navigate how to live with the disease. Natalie even gets local businesses to sponsor a 5k to raise money for diabetes research. By all accounts, Natalie and Michael are living the dream. But Michael yearns for more. Natalie later says that Michael wanted to live a more fabulous life than their dual incomes can afford. And soon, Natalie and Michael will find the inspiration to change their lives and their income bracket from a movie. It's 2017 and Natalie and Michael are sitting down for a movie night at home. Tonight they're watching War Dogs. Sachi, have you heard of this movie?
- [10:56]
B
I think I saw it. Jonah Hill's in it and there's lots of guns.
- [11:00]
A
That's basically it. Okay, great. It's directed by Todd Phillips, the guy behind the Hangover trilogy, and Joker and It's loosely based on a true story. In the movie, Miles Teller and Jonah Hill play two young hustlers who land a $300 million Pentagon contract to arm U.S. troops in Afghanistan. They don't have any real experience, but during the war, the government was desperate for cheap weapons. So the two undercut their competition, win the bid, and get filthy rich. As the trailer says, they call guys.
- [11:35]
C
Like us war dogs. Bottom feeders who make money off of war without ever stepping foot on the battlefield. It was meant to be derogatory, but we kind of liked it.
- [11:45]
A
The scheme does not go well for the characters. They end up arrested by the FBI for fraud. But instead of viewing the movie as a cautionary tale, Natalie and Michael decide they should become war dogs too. They said, woof, woof. Sachi.
- [12:03]
B
They said, woof, woof. This is like the argument people make about why we shouldn't have satire because people will believe it. Like when Jonathan Swift was like, we should eat children. Someone's gonna eat a baby. And everyone would be like, who would be so foolish? We found him.
- [12:16]
A
Yes, we found the two people who.
- [12:18]
B
Would read A Modest Proposal and eat a baby.
- [12:20]
A
Absolutely. And there actually isn't a crazy barrier to entry to become a war dog. All open government contracts are posted online and anyone can apply for them. These contracts generally cover a range of government needs, from guns for the military to uniforms for TSA officers. The average contractor makes around 8% profit, which adds up pretty quickly when the contracts are worth millions of dollars. Within a year, Natalie and Michael opened two companies. Tactical Solutions Group and Technology Management Systems, or TSG and tms. The field is crowded, so Natalie gives the couple an advantage by naming herself the 51% majority owner of both companies. This means the companies qualify as woman owned and can fill diversity quotas. Natalie also says she's a quarter Cherokee, which is a lie.
- [13:19]
B
Sarah, let me get out our Scamflancers bingo board. Faking indigenous ancestry right in the middle.
- [13:26]
A
Yes, and also further proof that diversity quotas kind of benefited the worst people at times. That's how we got here. Well, Natalie tells Michael his job is to find contracts for them to bid on. After that, she'll handle the bidding, the money, and all of the administration. In theory, this is a lot of work, but Natalie doesn't plan to do any of it. We don't know why exactly, but it seems like Natalie never even tries to run a legitimate business. Maybe it was too hard. Maybe she didn't have the patience. Either way, she chooses to just lie instead. Once the companies are up and running. Natalie needs seed capital in order to turn the contracts into big business. And while she could try to find outside investors, that would be hard. So instead, she turns to her family, including her parents and sister, who happily invest. Michael's mother and stepfather invest as well, along with people in Natalie and Michael's community. One of these investors is Tony McCall. Tony is a beautiful blonde in her early 50s whose son plays in the youth baseball league. She's going through a tough time. She recently lost her husband to leukemia. Michael has become a surrogate father figure to her son. Natalie shows Tony a contract TSG wants to bid on and pitches her on becoming an investor. Natalie's pitch is convincing. She uses real government contracts, but doctors the paperwork, changing the identifying numbers and inflating the promised returns. She also tells Toni that she has to decide on the spot because Natalie likes to bid at the last second. This way, no one can swoop in and undercut her bid. Toni wants to help her friends, so she agrees and ends up investing over a quarter of a million dollars.
- [15:28]
B
I don't have any friends that want to help me that badly.
- [15:31]
A
Never.
- [15:31]
B
Do you?
- [15:32]
A
No. But also, maybe we're not asking.
- [15:35]
B
I would never ask.
- [15:36]
A
I would never ask. And thanks to her family and friends like Tony, Natalie is raking it in. But instead of building real businesses, she doubles down on fake it till you make it with no intention of ever making it. She wants her companies to look like legit smart investments, so she starts fabricating contracts. A couple months later, Natalie leaves her pharmacist job and stops teaching college classes. That makes it seem like the companies are big money makers, when in reality, they're just churning out whatever investors are willing to put in. At some point, Natalie and Michael also buy billboards to advertise a business featuring Bible verses and guns. But Natalie needs more cash to keep things going. In theory, she can use money from new investors to pay out old ones in a good old fashioned Ponzi scheme. Except Natalie never seems to seriously consider paying out any of her investors. She just lets everyone believe they're going to strike it rich, including Michael. And while Michael has no idea what's really happening, he's more than happy to share in the spoils. It's May 2018, about six months after Natalie quit her job, and Michael is excited. He and Natalie have just bought a 1965 Shelby Cobra Sachi. Not only is. Is that a car? It's a very nice car. An original Cobra in perfect condition sells for between $500,000 and $5 million. Can you describe this photo?
- [17:14]
B
Oh, yeah, it's these two twerps wearing, like, golf clothes, I guess, standing outside in front of a very expensive looking Batmobile. As you know, Sarah, I do not know cars, but it does look like it probably costs a lot of money.
- [17:29]
A
Yet it is just such a big purchase that's so obviously expensive. And also, none of their investors have been paid back. So not very subtle. This car is a big purchase, and it's just the beginning. They renovate their house, buy a trailer, multiple motorcycles, a few more cars, and of course, a boat. The family takes a trip to Paris. Michael buys some recreational vehicles and an airplane hangar. He's been working on getting his pilot's license and dreams of expanding their business into aviation one day. But Michael isn't totally selfish. He's excited to give back to their community. When he goes out for dinner with friends and family, he always picks up the check. He takes his niece to Disney World. He donates a weight room to a local middle school. And when he learns a local youth pastor is on the verge of homelessness. Michael. He puts him up in one of the family's investment properties. Up to this point, Michael has been under the impression that their personal and professional relationships are totally separate. But in August 2018, he learns that not only have a bunch of their friends and family invested, but they're owed almost $250 million. Michael is upset. He wants to pay up. He decides he wants to be more involved in the business.
- [18:52]
B
That is so much money. It's so much money to get from, like, your friends and your family and people in your community. Their PowerPoint pitch must have been very persuasive.
- [19:04]
A
Yeah, I mean, it is staggering. And in early September, Natalie shares bad news. The government is auditing their business. She shows Michael emails from a woman at the Federal Reserve named Betsy Britland. Betsy promises she's doing everything she can to get TSG's funds released. Natalie starts spending a lot of time on the phone with Betsy trying to get things figured out. And this seems to be enough to convince Michael that things will be okay.
- [19:34]
B
He is so enthralled in the life that they can have that they are having that he wants this to be real so badly. But it is bananas that he finds out that they've taken $250 million from everybody they know. And then he's like, I should be more involved. And then he's like, well, it's okay.
- [19:54]
A
She made some calls. I know, right? Well, Natalie assures him that as soon as the audit is over, they're going to get even more money. So they buy new storage for their truck and spend over $14,000 on earrings from Kay Jewelers. Michael is confident in their business, and he's excited to get more involved. But his newfound enthusiasm just pushes his wife deeper into a corner. About a year after Natalie started taking people's money, her investors come looking for big payouts. We don't know why she led her victims to expect a large return so quickly. Maybe she just didn't think much about it. But instead of paying people, Natalie complains about the audit and then distracts them with stories about all the amazing things she and Michael are going to do with their poor portion of the profits. Like buying a town in Africa, which he says is going to be their mission in life.
- [20:51]
B
Buying it for what?
- [20:54]
A
You don't understand. There are just towns in Africa that anyone can buy. They're for sale.
- [20:59]
B
Is it like how you can buy a star? Like you can buy a star in the sky and name it after you? Is that what you're describing?
- [21:05]
A
I honestly think so. And, you know, if you're hearing that from someone, that's kind of the first red flag. Buying a town in Africa, I'd say. And in some cases, Natalie can make convenient excuses or convince people to reinvest their supposed earnings, but the government audit is by far her best scapegoat. And Sachi, you've probably already guessed this, but Betsy from the Federal Reserve isn't real. Natalie made her up. Meanwhile, Natalie needs more cash, so she takes out additional loans. And she decides to go after new investors like Michael's best friend, Chris. That fall, while the audit is supposedly underway, she and Michael run into Chris at church. Michael seems more sold on the business than ever, because shortly afterward, he's the one who pitches Chris on an investment opportunity, a contract for dental labs on military bases. Chris is interested, so Natalie swoops in to hammer out the details. According to Chris, Natalie tells him he can't see any of the paperwork because the contract is related to the military. She also tells him other friends have already invested, but unless they raise more money soon, everyone will lose out. Chris agrees to give them over a half a million dollars.
- [22:27]
B
I couldn't guilt a friend into buying me a meal. These people are throwing out so much.
- [22:35]
A
Yeah, I need to know what the income of this town is, because that is truly crazy. And of course, Natalie doesn't use any of this money to pay out their investors. Instead, she steps up her spending. Natalie later claims the Real reason she spent all of this money was to keep Michael happy. She alleges that life with Michael was difficult and that he wasn't afraid to express his dissatisfaction with Natalie and their life. She says Michael was happiest when he was rich, implying that she basically started scamming people to make him happy. Years later, in court, Michael. Natalie alleges that Michael was physically and emotionally abusive, including taking a sledgehammer to their furniture. And she says that Michael gave her K earrings as an apology for trying to run her over with a truck. Her own therapist suggested that Natalie has PTSD from a history of domestic violence. For what it's worth, while people have admitted that Michael could be authoritative and domineering, there's little corroborating evidence suggesting he was abusive or violent. It's just Natalie's word, and she lies so often that it's hard to know when she's telling the truth. Michael may have had his flaws, but investigators later conclude he didn't know anything about Natalie's Ponzi scheme. This is partly because of Betsy. Sure, Betsy isn't real, but she is a strong piece of evidence that Michael was in the dark. If he knew Natalee was lying to everyone, why would she need to show him fake emails? And why would he spend all day looking for contracts if he knew they never got one?
- [24:15]
B
All of this hinges on, like, an absence of proof. There's a lack of information from and by both of them, and so all of this is getting even more muddled. Obviously, there's, like, a lot of confusion around what is happening in this marriage, but, like, the reality is, is that they are getting millions of dollars from their friends and funneling it into their lifestyles and spending all of this money.
- [24:39]
A
Yeah. And you know what? Whatever was happening between Natalie and Michael, someone outside of that marriage should have probably been asking questions. As it is, Natalie holds onto the audit story for a couple of weeks as an excuse, but she can't do that forever. So on October 25, 2018, she tells Michael that the audit is complete and they'll get their money on October 29th. But, of course, this is impossible. There is no government payout coming. Natalie has created a web of lies to explain the lack of funds, and she's willing to do whatever it takes to keep her scheme going, including murder. You know what I realized the other day? My go to busy day meal is kind of sad. Like, you know, you live alone, sometimes you're just gonna eat cereal for dinner, and that's what it is.
- [25:36]
B
Yeah. 10 to 12 olives. I know that routine. I used to grab whatever was fastest, even if it was boring or maybe not great for me. But honestly, that gets old pretty fast.
- [25:46]
A
That's why cookunity has been such a game changer. Their chefs make eating healthy actually exciting and every dish feels like something you'd order at a restaurant.
- [25:55]
B
And it doesn't get repetitive or over 300 rotating small batch meals plus new chefs joining all the time so I'm not stuck with the same bland choices.
- [26:04]
A
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- [26:11]
B
Fuel your day with the freshest, best tasting meal delivery made by award winning chefs.
- [26:16]
A
Go to cookunity.com scamfluencers or enter code SCAMFLUENCERS before checkout. For free premium meals for for life.
- [26:25]
B
That's right, free Premium Meals for life@cookunity.com Scamfluencers code scamfluencers cooler days call for.
- [26:35]
A
Layers and quints is my go to for quality essentials that feel cozy, look refined and won't blow your budget.
- [26:42]
B
Sarah as you know, so much of my wardrobe is quint. I have a lot of people who stop me on the street because I look so good in all of my Quinn stuff. I have all these dresses from there that I'm so excited to wear for fall that I had I think like two years ago and they are still in my closet and I still look good in them. Would you believe it?
- [27:00]
A
I would. Because you are beautiful. Quinn's has all the elevated essentials for fall. Think 100% Mongolian cashmere from $50 premium denim that fits like a dream and luxe outerwear you'll wear year after year. These are the pieces that'll turn into your fall uniform.
- [27:17]
B
By partnering directly with ethical top tier factories and cutting out the middlemen, Quince is able to deliver luxury quality pieces at half the price of similar brands. It's the kind of wardrobe upgrade feel smart, stylish and effortless.
- [27:30]
A
Find your fall staples at quints. Go to quint.comscampod for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada too. That's Q-U-I-N c e.comscampod to get free shipping and 365 day returns. I feel like a legend. It's October 2018 and Michael has been hearing the same story from Natalie for weeks. The audit is holding up their payments, so when she finally tells him that it's over, and the money will come in on October 29th. He's thrilled. But that day comes and goes, and there's no money. In the days that follow, Michael feels awful. Not just because of the delay. He starts feeling really sick. And on October 31, he checks himself into the hospital. The doctors can't figure out what's wrong with him, so he's discharged. But he doesn't improve. Turns out Michael hasn't been feeling like himself for a while. He's been confused, agitated, and feeling dizzy. He even tells a friend he thinks he's being poisoned. Michael feels like he's losing his mind. For example, one day in mid October, Michael, he found himself sitting in a Panera Bread with no memory of how he got there. Michael's alarmed because, among other things, he hates Panera Bread. Michael has trouble remembering simple things, like the hat one of his friends wears every single day. After getting home from the hospital, Michael's symptoms get worse. He's vomiting and short of breath. He asks Chris to bring over an oxygen tank, but it doesn't help him. Michael thinks he might have been exposed to something while working on one of his investment properties. So he tells Chris to take him back to the hospital. And this time, Michael is kept overnight at the hospital. Michael is scared, even worried he might not survive. So when his kids visit, he goes out of his way to be kind and tells them what he appreciates about them. At some point, he's prescribed seizure medication for supposed exposure to black mold. Chris later says Natalie was the only person communicating with doctors, which means Michael's friends and family generally have to rely on her word that he's been having seizures and that black mold is to blame. But later, some of Michael's friends, as well as some journalists following the story, will theorize that Natalie was actually poisoning Michael. We don't know if that's the case, but the evidence looks pretty sketchy.
- [30:17]
B
It's not looking good for not being poisoned by your wife, I gotta say.
- [30:22]
A
Yeah, dicey at best. Well, eventually, Michael is discharged from the hospital and starts focusing on his recovery. But he has other problems. The government still hasn't paid tsg, which means his mother, best friends, and loads of their community are still waiting on their money. Michael isn't doing well physically, and the added stress isn't helping. Then the bill starts coming due. In early December, a local bank informs Michael and Natalie that their accounts are being closed. Michael is furious. They run a successful business. How dare they try to shut them down? So he heads to the bank and starts Angrily demanding answers. The tellers try to get Michael to calm down, but. But he won't listen. Luckily, one of the employees knows Michael, so they call Chris, who manages to deescalate the situation and keep Michael from getting himself arrested. Michael wants answers, and Natalie is seemingly out of excuses. But she's about to get a reprieve from the very entity at the heart of her scam. The federal government. The entire time Natalie has been complaining about problems with government payments, Congress has been arguing about the same thing. They failed to approve a budget before the 2018 holiday break. So on December 22, the federal government partially shuts down. This is a huge disaster for the millions of people who work for the government, but it's great news for Natalie. Since the government can't pay anyone for contracts, she has a legit excuse for why no one has their money. Still, the shutdown doesn't remove all of Natalie's problems. For example, she still has holiday shopping to do. She's been raiding TSG's accounts to pay for things. But in December of 2018, she allegedly turned to a new source of funds. The Shady Springs Youth Baseball League. Remember, she's the treasurer, so she can easily access their accounts. She reports reportedly spends over $1,000 at Dunham's and Dick's Sporting Goods and over $2,000 on Yeti Coolers. Now, in theory, these are places where she could be buying supplies for the league, but she also spends $400 on bows and arrows, which you definitely can't use in baseball. No one seems to notice any of this. So Natalie keeps using the baseball account into the new year. She even uses it to have a meal at the Olive Garden.
- [32:58]
B
I would also do that.
- [33:00]
A
In all fairness, it's a great place to spend your money.
- [33:03]
B
It's better than $400 on bows and arrows.
- [33:06]
A
I agree. It goes somewhere throughout January. Natalie is in a holding pattern with the shutdown, but she knows that whenever the shutdown ends, her investors are going to expect to get paid. So she gets desperate and decides to pivot to another classic scamfluencers tactic, telling everyone she's been diagnosed with cancer. And not just any cancer. Leukemia. Just like her friend Tony's husband.
- [33:36]
B
Okay, so just to be clear, she is faking having a very specific type of cancer around her friend whose husband died of it.
- [33:46]
A
Yes, that is exactly what she's doing. And the same friends Natalie is stealing from start driving her to fake doctor's appointments, cooking the family meals, and making T shirts and support. They even get their bone Marrow tested to see if they're a match. Everyone rallies around Natalie except for her friend Toni. Toni is familiar with the disease, so when Natalie says her cancer is stage three, Toni is immediately suspicious because she's used to seeing leukemia classified by types, not stages. Here's Toni describing another one of Natalie's lies. On 2020, she told us that she.
- [34:27]
C
Was losing her hair from the chemo she was taking.
- [34:30]
A
And she flips her hair over and she has a perfect dime sized circle where she has shaved a spot in her hair.
- [34:41]
C
And if you, if you lose your.
- [34:42]
A
Hair from chemo, you don't see five o' clock shadow.
- [34:46]
C
What woman would shave a spot on.
- [34:48]
A
Their head to say, look, I'm losing my hair?
- [34:53]
B
I fundamentally don't understand what the fuck this woman is thinking. She has never tried to run a legitimate business. She has taken millions of dollars from everybody she knows. She is telling these lies to try to like divert scrutiny, but the lie she's telling is like easily provable that she does not have cancer. This is not how cancer works. And she's looking this person in the eye and telling them a lie about something that they are intimately familiar with.
- [35:20]
A
It's so dumb. It's really insane. And Natalie's lie is shaky at best. But even Tony isn't willing to outright accuse her friend of fraud, especially with so many other people rallying around her. Still, Natalie is on thin ice. She's been telling different people, different stories, and it's only a matter of time before they start talking to each other. But when it comes to seeing through her lies, her biggest threat is inside her own home. While Natalie is fighting her fake cancer, Michael is fighting the rest of the world to protect his business. Especially after the government shutdown ends in late January and they still don't have their money. But Natalie has good news. They're actually going to get extra money because the payment is so late. Their personal profit will be $2.8 million. This is life changing money. Now, instead of being frustrated, Michael is pumped. He tells Chris he'll be able to start a youth hunting camp and build even more baseball fields. But on February 4, Natalie tells Michael there's a new issue with bank of America. Whatever the problem, it's holding up hundred hundreds of millions of dollars. Not just for them, but for everyone in the community. Michael doesn't understand what's going on. He believed Natalie every step of the way. But this is getting ridiculous. They need to fly to Virginia to meet with their banker in person. The next day, the sewer company Employee shows up and tells Michael the family's water is about to be shut off. This only underscores how serious their problems are. Natalie tries to calm Michael down by telling him to buy the helicopter he's been eyeing. But no luxury purchase is enough to subdue Michael, and he's determined to get answers. He thinks he's gearing up for a fight against the bank. But the real battle is closer to home with the woman he believes is the love of his life. It's February 5th, the same day the Cochrans almost got their water turned off. And the day before they're supposed to fly to Virginia to talk to the bank. But instead of coming clean, Natalie finds another reason to stall. She goes to the doctor complaining of flu like symptoms unrelated to her fake cancer. She tests negative for the flu and strep, but the doctor gives her a steroid shot anyway. At 6:30am the following day, the day they're supposed to fly to Virginia, Natalie texts the flight company and cancels their trip. She's just too sick to travel. Michael is not happy about the cancellation and tells her to reschedule the flight for the following day. And if she's too sick to travel, he offers to go with Chris instead. After all, Chris is a lawyer and can help him get to the bottom of things. Instead of rebooking their flight, Natalie texts Jennifer, Chris wife, and shares that she and Michael are both sick. She says the doctor put her on such a high dose of steroids that she has to start taking insulin and adds that she'll have to order a vial.
- [38:37]
B
This is like illness Mad Libs. Now she's diabetic?
- [38:41]
A
Yep. Now you may remember that Chris and Jennifer's son is diabetic. Natalie was the expert who helped them understand his disease and medication. And so she knows Jennifer has insulin at home. They're close friends, so it's natural to assume that Jennifer might offer to bring Natalie some of their insulin supply. And sure enough, later that morning, Chris drops off a flu care package at Natalie's front door, including propel, vitamin water, Diet Coke and a bottle of insulin. Chris doesn't know it yet, but inside this carrot package is a perfect murder weapon. You know that sinking feeling when you're hit with yet another overdraft fee? I have been there. Between surprise charges and waiting days for my paycheck to clear. Managing money used to be a constant source of stress.
- [39:39]
B
Oh yeah. Younger me would have really benefited from this. With Chime's direct deposit, you can get your paycheck up to two days early and never worry about overdraft fees anymore thanks to their Spot Me feature that covers up to $200 on debit card purchases and cash withdrawals. In fact, Chime has spotted their members over $30 billion. That's real impact.
- [40:00]
A
Chime really does banking right and makes sure every dollar counts. There are no monthly fees, no maintenance fees, and access to over 47,000 fee free ATMs nationwide. That's more than the top three national banks combined.
- [40:14]
B
Work on your financial goals through Chime today. Open an account in 2 minutes@chime.com scampod that's chime.com scampod Chime feels like progress.
- [40:26]
A
Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Banking services and debit card provided by the Bancor, Bankna or Stride Bank NA members FDIC spot and eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Timing depends on submission of payment file. Fees apply at out of network ATMs. Bank ranking and number of ATMs according to US News and World Report 2023.
- [40:37]
C
Chime checking account required Reese's Peanut Butter Cups they go perfectly with music, podcasts and welcome back to the show. Even nature sounds. Oh, and the thing where someone crinkles tissue and whispers at you.
- [40:53]
A
Hello.
- [40:54]
C
Look, I'm not here to judge what you listen to. I'm here to judge you for not eating Reese's while you listen to it. Reese's Ashley, go back to the nature sounds. Nice. Yeah, that's really nice.
- [41:12]
A
I feel like a It's February 6, 2019. Michael is upset that Natalie canceled their flight to Virginia. He's eager to visit bank of America and finally get to the bottom of all their financial problems. But then something happens. We don't know the exact order of events, but we do know that Natalie and Michael are home alone after their kids leave for school. And we know that somehow Michael ingests benzodiazepines. These drugs, like Valium or Xanax, usually help calm people's anxiety or fight depression. But Michael is allergic to them. Thanks to this allergic reaction, Michael could become dizzy or confused or maybe even pass out after ingesting them. After that, Natalie injects him with insulin. Sachi, are you familiar with how insulin works and why diabetics need it?
- [42:08]
B
Honestly, not really, but I would love.
- [42:10]
A
For you to explain it to me. Alright. Well, basically, if someone has diabetes, it means their body isn't very good at controlling blood sugar. Sometimes this means their blood sugar gets too low, which means they need to ingest more sugar. Other times, it means their blood Sugar gets too high, and in that case, they take insulin to bring it down. But if you give insulin to a non diabetic person, it can lower their blood sugar to dangerous levels. And if this happens, their body could shut down. Natalie is a diabetes expert, so she knows that if she gives Michael enough insulin, he could die if he doesn't get treatment in time. She also knows that the body metabolizes insulin really quickly, which means it's very hard to test for, like, say, in an autopsy. With her plan underway, Michael, Natalie is now in a tricky position. She has to appear to be a concerned wife who wants to help her husband. But she can't let anyone take him to the hospital because if he gets treated, her plan could unravel fast. A lot of what Natalie does next is pretty chaotic and not the smartest course of action for an aspiring murderer. For example, she starts texting people like Jennifer. This photo with no context. Sachi, can you describe it?
- [43:35]
B
So this appears to be a photo of her husband on the floor looking unconscious. I would say that getting this no context would be pretty scary. I mean, I don't know if she's trying to establish an alibi, but this doesn't seem super effective.
- [43:50]
A
Yeah, I mean, he's passed out on the floor. It's crazy to get a message like that. No context. With context, it's crazy.
- [43:57]
B
Yeah, it looks like she's going to drag this body somewhere.
- [44:00]
A
Well, Natalie gives people a few different explanations for what happened to Michael, but her main story is that Michael must have had another seizure. She says that Michael has had seizures before and usually just sleeps them off. She claims that after Michael's black mold related illness, he said he hated hospitals and never wanted to go to one again. And on top of all this, she tells people she's monitoring his blood pressure and pulse and everything seems fine. She's Michael's wife and a pharmacist, so everyone seems to believe her. Instead of taking Michael to the hospital, Natalie calls a few of his contractors and asks them to move him to the couch so he can sleep it off. Natalie also invites over a friend who happens to be a state trainer trooper. And this friend brings over his wife, a physician's assistant, to help. Later, Natalie is able to use their jobs to boost her credibility. She claims that a state trooper and physician's assistant both saw Michael and thought he was fine. But the reality is that her friends are very worried. They tell her to take Michael to the hospital, and she declines, saying Michael would be furious if she did that. Eventually they leave her alone with him, assuming that she's taking care of Michael and trying to respect his wishes.
- [45:24]
B
I mean, I would also probably do the same. You know, like, if I went to someone's house and their spouse was like, no, no, no, I got it. I'd probably trust them. What else are you gonna do?
- [45:34]
A
Yes. It's also like, you don't really know what people are like in their home. Like, it's hard to push back on that, especially if you're just friends. It's not like they're family or anything. Mm. Once everyone is gone, Natalie gets to work on the next phase of her plan. Chris receives a text from Michael that says, quote, I think I caught what Nat has just gonna lay at home and watch tv. Natalie knows how to get into Michael's phone, so journalists and prosecutors later speculate that she sent this and other texts pretending to be him. Meanwhile, Michael has been passed out on the couch for hours. When their kids arrive home from school, Natalie realizes that Michael has wet himself. She has her daughter get a fresh change of clothes, and Natalie changes him. And Natalie eventually decides to bring Chris in. When he walks through the door and sees how poorly Michael is doing, he takes charge and tells Natalie they're going to the hospital. As the sun sets, Natalie piles into the back of Chris car, holding Michael. When they get to the hospital at around 7pm, Michael is put on a ventilator. Tests reveal that his blood sugar is dangerously low, but none of the medical professionals can explain why. Michael, once healthy and fit, has suddenly become a medical mystery, and Natalie has no intention of helping anyone solve Michael's mother. Donna doesn't hear anything about her son's medical emergency until 10:30pm over three hours after Michael is brought to the hospital. Donna has long, straight gray hair and glasses. She's sitting at home having a normal evening, when suddenly Natalie texts her a picture of Michael on a ventilator with no additional context. Understandably, Donna is panicked, and she has a lot of questions. What is going on? Where is Michael, and when can she see him? Natalie tells Donna the doctors don't know what's wrong, and it doesn't look good. She also says that Donna can't come until visiting hours the following day. The next morning, Donna races to the hospital, but when she arrives, she learns that Michael isn't there. Natalie sent her to the wrong hospital.
- [47:58]
B
Oh, my God. This woman is a supervillain. This is so evil.
- [48:03]
A
So incredibly evil. And eventually, Donna does make it to the right hospital and finds her way to Michael's room where she takes up vigil at his bedside. She's shocked to see Natalie in the corner, plugging away over her laptop. According to Donna, Natalie told her she was busy working on the government contract. When Donna finally talks to the doctors, things get even worse. They tell her they don't think Michael will make it. Donna is devastated and she's clinging to whatever hope she can find. She wants to give Michael some time to see if he'll recover. But Natalie has power of attorney and within a few days, she decides to take him off life support. Everyone comes to say their goodbyes, but when the tube is being pulled, a miracle happens. Donna says that Michael sits up on his own and opens his eyes. She's overcome with joy at the thought that Michael might actually live. But then she looks over at Natalie and she notices that Natalie doesn't seem excited at all. Instead, she looks horrified.
- [49:13]
B
Yeah, because she couldn't get away with all the evidence. Now Amy wakes up and tells everybody what she did.
- [49:21]
A
Well, Michael might be awake, but he isn't able to speak. And soon enough, he falls unconscious again. Donna wants the doctors to run an MRI to see if Michael is really brain dead. But Natalie overrules her again and moves Michael to hospice without telling her. On the evening of February 10th, Donna gets a call from a preacher who tells her he's about to give Michael his last rites. She rushes to hospice and helplessly watches as her son dies a few hours later at just 38 years old. Donna is devastated, while Natalie seems more focused on preparing the necessary funeral arrangements. And that's when Natalie hits Donna with another gut punch. Donna isn't allowed to invite anyone to her own son's funeral. Donna is slowly starting to to realize that her sweet daughter in law might not be as nice as she puts on. But she has no idea how horrible Natalie is truly willing to be. For years, Natalie has enjoyed holding herself and her husband up as pillars of the community. But rather than having a big funeral so the whole community can mourn Michael, she decides to move quickly and privately. Michael's death is ruled as natural causes, and for whatever reason, no one performs an autopsy critically. Natalie decides not to have him cremated. The funeral is held two days after Michael's death. It's a private closed casket ceremony that lasts for less than five minutes. It has a tiny audience of just Donna and her husband, Michael's stepfather, as well as the rest of Natalie's close circle. Natalie gaslights everyone into believing this is what Michael would have wanted. She says that of course they know Michael would want the funeral to be held quickly and basically dares them to contradict her. According to Donna, Natalie doesn't shed a single tear. The community is ready to rally around Natalie and the kids. They think she's a grieving widow. No one suspects she's been robbing them blind, but she owes them money and sooner or later they will ask questions. For now, Michael's death looks like a heartbreaking tragedy and Natalie is going to milk it for all it's worth. Even when the authorities start circling.
- [51:56]
B
Loving scamflancers get exclusive episodes and early access to new ones, all ad free on Wondry. Join now in the Wondry app, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Before you go, help us out by taking a quick survey@wondry.com survey.
- [52:15]
A
This is part one of Natalie Cochran, the pharmacist Femme Fatale. I'm Sarah Hagie.
- [52:21]
B
And I'm Sachi Kol.
- [52:22]
A
If you have a tip for us.
- [52:23]
B
On a story that you think we should cover, please email us@scamflencersundry.com we use many sources in our research.
- [52:30]
A
A few that were particularly Helpful were.
- [52:32]
B
Jessica Farish's reporting for the Register Herald, the 2020 episode Small Town, Big Con and interviews conducted by the Creepalacha Podcast.
- [52:41]
A
Rachel Borders wrote this episode. Additional writing by us, Sachi Cole and Sarah Hagie. Eric Thurm is our story editor. Fact checking by Gabrielle Joliet. Sound design by James Morgan. Additional audio assistance provided by Augustine Lim. Our music supervisor is Scott Velasquez for Frisson Sync. Our Managing producer is Desi Blaylock. Our senior Managing Producer is Callum Plews. Stephanie Jens is our Development producer. Our Associate producer is Charlotte Miller. Our producer is Julie McGruder. Our senior producers are Sarah Enny and Ginny Blum. Our Executive producers are Jenny Lauer, Beckman, Marshall, Louie and Erin o' Flaherty for Wondery. Hey, I'm Sarah Marshall and there's one story from the past that I've been circling around for years now. This eight part series traces the hidden history of the Satanic panic in North America. We'll connect the Connect the dots. From Victoria, B.C. to the back roads of Kentucky, Satan was having a moment.
- [53:51]
B
The sensationalist heartthrob of our time, the Devil you Know.
- [53:55]
A
Available now wherever you get your podcasts.