Paul and Patricia Bragg: The Mother of All Wellness Scams | 158

Summary

Scamfluencers Episode 158 Summary: Paul and Patricia Bragg: The Mother of All Wellness Scams

Introduction

In Episode 158 of Scamfluencers, titled "Paul and Patricia Bragg: The Mother of All Wellness Scams," hosts Sachi Cole and Sarah Haggie delve into the controversial history of the Bragg family, pioneers of the wellness industry known primarily for their promotion of apple cider vinegar (ACV). This episode uncovers the deceptive practices, exaggerated claims, and the intertwining personal lives of Paul and Patricia Bragg that have influenced generations of wellness enthusiasts, including celebrity investor Katy Perry.

Early Life and Rise of Paul Bragg

The narrative begins in October 1997, focusing on a young Katherine Elizabeth Hudson (later known as Katy Perry) receiving her first guitar, a gift influenced by her parents' newfound friendship with Patricia Bragg. This connection sets the stage for Bragg’s pervasive influence in wellness culture.

Paul Bragg's Origins and Ambitions

Paul Bragg, born in 1895, claims a miraculous recovery from tuberculosis after two years at the Sun Sanatorium in Switzerland (1911-1913). He attributes his recovery to unconventional treatments, including sun exposure and specific dietary practices. Upon returning to the United States, Paul ambitiously pursues a career in health and fitness, marketing himself as a fitness guru through lectures, a radio show, and an advice column in the Los Angeles Times titled "Health Hints" ([08:14]).

Paul's charisma and media savvy help him build a substantial following. He fabricates a backstory, including false claims of competing in the 1908 and 1912 Olympics, to bolster his credibility. At one point, Paul even alters his birth year from 1895 to 1881 to appear older and more authoritative ([15:50]).

Expansion and Product Promotion

In the 1920s, Paul Bragg establishes Bragg Live Food Products, claiming it to be the nation's first health food store. The company offers products like Bragg Liquid Aminos (a soy sauce substitute) and Live Sprinkle (a purported healthier alternative to salt). Paul's marketing strategies include organizing hiking groups and promising attendees that his methods can "banish all disease and live to be a hundred years" ([13:33]).

Legal Troubles and Government Scrutiny

As Bragg's influence grows, Paul attracts regulatory scrutiny. In December 1930, the Postmaster General issues a mail fraud order against Paul for violating postal regulations with his product Glantex and his publication "The Truth About Sex" ([22:16]). Despite these charges, Paul manipulates the situation by leveraging his loyal fan base, resulting in a compromised legal outcome where he's fined only $100 ([30:15]).

Patricia Bragg's Rise and Influence

Patricia Bragg enters the scene as Paul's most devoted follower and eventually his daughter-in-law. Her marriage to Robert Bragg, Paul's son, becomes tumultuous, leading to divorce accusations that suggest an inappropriate closeness with Paul. Despite these allegations, Patricia consolidates her role within the Bragg enterprise, positioning herself as the rightful heir to the family's wellness legacy ([35:40]).

Patricia enhances the Bragg brand by patenting health devices and co-hosting the "Paul Bragg's Health and Happiness Show" alongside Paul, further promoting ACV as a miracle health product ([37:12]). Her persuasive marketing efforts sustain Bragg's prominence despite ongoing skepticism and criticisms from health professionals.

Bragg's Legacy and ACV Controversy

Patricia Bragg strategically elevates ACV as the flagship product of Bragg Live Food Products, marketing it with exaggerated health claims such as weight loss, heart disease treatment, and more ([39:13]). Despite scientific evidence debunking many of these claims, ACV remains a staple in health food markets, perpetuated by Bragg's persistent marketing.

Connection to Katy Perry and Modern-Day Scrutiny

Katy Perry's investment in Bragg brings renewed attention to the company's dubious practices. As Bragg shifts ownership to celebrities like Perry and Orlando Bloom, fans on platforms like YouTube and TikTok begin criticizing the quality of ACV products, alleging dilution and reduced efficacy ([53:18]). These accusations, though unfounded, tarnish the company's image and highlight the enduring skepticism surrounding Bragg's products.

Patricia Bragg’s Final Years and Death

Patricia Bragg continues to defend and promote Bragg Live Foods until her death in August 2023 at the age of 94. Her passing marks the end of an era for the Bragg empire, leaving behind a legacy of pseudoscientific wellness claims and a brand that continues to evoke both loyalty and criticism ([57:21]).

Hosts’ Reflections and Conclusion

Sachi Cole and Sarah Haggie conclude the episode by reflecting on the pervasive allure of simple health fixes like ACV. They emphasize the psychological manipulation inherent in wellness scams, where consumers are enticed to believe that a single product can solve complex health issues. The hosts also comment on the role of celebrity endorsements in perpetuating these scams, noting how Katy Perry's association with Bragg has kept the company's controversial practices in the public eye ([56:28]).

Notable Quotes:

• Sachi Cole ([03:14]): “Someone believes in her. And then we got Teenage Dream as a result.”
• Sarah Haggie ([08:14]): “There's this common online sentiment where people are like, ‘I need to be sent away to a sanatorium and have my smelling salts by the sea.’”
• Sachi Cole ([13:33]): “These are scary photos. This is out of a horror movie. This is like a flashback they have in Get Out.”
• Sarah Haggie ([16:33]): “You could never die if you just kind of keep changing when you were born.”
• Sachi Cole ([30:48]): “It's very RFK Jr. And that night, Paul returns to the Masonic Temple where he was arrested days earlier, and gives a speech where he repeats a lot of the same points.”
• Sarah Haggie ([45:38]): “What the hell?”
• Sachi Cole ([57:21]): “Bragg really tapped into a deeply human, innately human desire to just, just take one shot or bite of something disgusting and have it cure everything.”

Conclusion

The episode of Scamfluencers meticulously unpacks the Bragg family's long-standing influence in the wellness industry, underscoring how Paul and Patricia Bragg leveraged charisma, deception, and pseudoscience to build a lasting but controversial legacy. Their story serves as a cautionary tale about the susceptibility of consumers to charismatic health influencers and the importance of critical scrutiny in the pursuit of wellness.

Transcript

[Sarah Haggie]

Hey, scamfluencers fans, Sarah here. If you love the drama deception and mind blowing reveals, Wondery is your VIP ticket to more ad free episodes. Early access to the juiciest scandals and deep dives you won't find anywhere else. Get the full scamfluencers experience. Sign up today.

[Sachi Cole]

Sarah, is there any, let's say, woo woo, hippie health thing that you believe in but is maybe a little dubious?

[Sarah Haggie]

You know what? I'm just not that kind of person at all. I like medicine. I want hard drugs to cure me. You know what I mean?

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah, I mean, I believe in doctors and Advil and medicine, but I also feel like turmeric can probably fix it. Like whatever's wrong with you, just take some turmeric, see what happens.

[Sarah Haggie]

I don't think that's really woo woo, though.

[Sachi Cole]

It's a little woo woo.

[Sarah Haggie]

I consider woo woo to be like, leave it outside so it absorbs a moon's energy.

[Sachi Cole]

Right.

[Sarah Haggie]

You know, this is a healthy thing that I'll have some of, and if it works, it works.

[Sachi Cole]

Okay. Okay. Good balance. Well, I'm asking because today we're gonna tackle a mainstay of alternative wellness culture. Apple cider vinegar and the outrageous family that made it a household staple. It's October 1997 in Santa Barbara, California, and a girl is celebrating her 13th birthday. Her name is Katherine Elizabeth Hudson, but when she grows up, she'll be known as Katy Perry. And this is a big day for young Katy. She's receiving her very first guitar. Big presents are not the norm in Katie's home. Her parents are Pentecostal pastors struggling to make ends meet. But they recently made a very generous family friend. Katie's mom was reading a book called the Miracle of Fasting. It claims that fasting flushes deadly poisons from the body, fights acid crystals, and removes mucus. The health theories really struck a chord with Katie's mom, so she reached out to its author, a woman named Patricia Bragg. Patricia wrote back, and they struck up a friendship. Patricia is an energetic and tiny lady in her 60s who often dresses head to toe in pink or rainbow with a pink cowboy hat on her head. In spite of her quirky appearance, Patricia is a big deal. She's the CEO of a health food company called Bragg Life Food Products that was founded by her father, Paul Bragg. Patricia became a sort of guru for Katie's family, and they influenced her too. She even joined their church. Patricia has had a big impact on Katie. Katie's mom makes her drink Bragg's Apple cider vinegar to soothe her vocal cords. Patricia warned Katie against underwire bras, claiming they restrict blood circulation. And Today, on her 13th birthday, she grants Katie's biggest wish by giving her a guitar. Here's Katie talking about that gift years later in a promo video for Bragg Live Foods. She put up the money for the guitar, but she said, oh, the church.

[Sarah Haggie]

Paid for it or whatever.

[Sachi Cole]

It was a collective, but you know, you did it. It was awesome.

[Sarah Haggie]

And it was really the point, I.

[Sachi Cole]

Think for me where I was like, oh, someone believes in me.

[Sarah Haggie]

That is sweet that, you know, one person believed in her. And then we got Teenage dream as a result. However, this is crazy because Bragg's apple cider vinegar is the one that you see everywhere.

[Sachi Cole]

It's the apple cider vinegar.

[Sarah Haggie]

It's the one. The bottle is so recognizable and I had no idea there was this like weird Katy Perry connection.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah, well, Katy continues to follow the Braggs health tips even as her career blows up and she becomes one of the biggest pop stars in the world. And in 2016, Katy meets an actor named Orlando Bloom. And on their they bond over their love of apple cider vinegar. Don't you think that's romantic?

[Sarah Haggie]

That sounds like something famous people would believe is like a beautiful connection. Like, oh my God, we both drink apple cider vinegar. It's meant to be.

[Sachi Cole]

Well, they have to start somewhere. And before long, this love connection leads to a new business opportunity. In 2019, Patricia announces she's going to retire. And she makes Katie an incredible offer. She invites her and Orlando to be among the investors taking over the business. The couple jumps at the opportunity. It's an exciting moment, but this new purchase is going to come back to bite Katie. Because Patricia and Paul have spent the last hundred years making health promises they absolutely cannot keep, the company has a huge, intense fan base that's used to being lied to. And soon, Katy Perry is going to hear them roar. Mochi Health is here to help you start your weight loss journey with caring, personalized support. Meet one on one with board certified obesity doctors and registered dietitians who truly listen and understand your unique needs. Eligible patients can access affordable GLP1 medications delivered right to their door each month. No insurance, no problem. Mochi Health accepts FSA and HSA making care accessible and affordable. And with 24. 7 customer service, you'll never feel alone on your path to better health. Get started with Mochi Health today. Take the free [e-mail] and use code AUDIO40 at checkout for $40 off your first month of membership. That's join M O C H I.com with promo code AUDIO40. If you have a locked AT and T phone, we're here with bolt cutters. T Mobile will help pay off your locked phone and give you a new 5G phone for free on America's largest 5G network. Visit t mobile.com CarrierFreedom via virtual prepaid MasterCard in 15 days. Free phone up to $830 via 24 monthly bill credits plus tax and a $10 device connection charge. Qualifying port and trade in service on Go5G next and credit required. Contact us before canceling entire account to continue bill credits or credit stop and balance on required finance agreement as deal credits and if you pay off devices early From Wondery I'm Sachi Cole. And I'm Sarah Haggie and this is Scamfl. Give me your attention. I won't ever learn my lesson. Turn my speakers to 11. I feel like a Legend for more than a century, the Bragg family rode the rising tide of wellness and disinformation. They gained loyal followers and amassed a huge fortune. But Paul and Patricia's empire was built on a foundation of lies about their products and about themselves. We're about to pull back the curtain on the family that inspired generations of health food trends. There's influential strongmen, questionable paternity claims and a whole lot of fermentation. This is Paul and Patricia Bragg, the mother of all wellness scams legend. A century before Katy Perry buys into Bragg, the company's founder, Paul Bragg was a sickly teenager in Washington D.C. it's 1911 and 16 year old Paul has been diagnosed with tuberculosis. Paul's family decides to try a new treatment for his disease, a sun sanatorium in the Swiss Alps. The institution is run by a doctor named Auguste Rollier. Auguste is an academic looking man with a tidy mustache and little round glasses. He was inspired by a Nobel Prize winning Danish doctor who discovered that sunlight therapy can help many ailments, including tb. At August's clinic, nurses roll Paul's bed close to the window for indirect exposure to sunlight and fresh air. He drinks one quart of milk per day and a glass of enriched eggnog at bedtime. As he gets stronger, he gets to go outside for sunbathing and physical exercise. In 1913, after two years at the Sun Sanatorium, it seems like this unconventional approach has worked. Now 18, Paul returns to America cured of tuberculosis. Later, he tells people that he made a pledge to God in exchange for getting his health back. He would Commit his life to showing others how to achieve peak physical fitness.

[Sarah Haggie]

Okay, you know what's so funny about this? I feel like there's this common online sentiment where people are like, I need to be sent away to, like, a sanatorium and have my smelling salts by the sea. But they're not thinking of the nasty shit you have to do, like, drinking. And I love eggnog. But drinking a glass of enriched eggnog at bedtime, like, that's a part of what the things you have to do there. There's, like, nasty shit, there's leeches.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah, the lobotomies, I think, are probably the headline. Okay, well, you should know that Paul is a very unreliable narrator of his own life, but he is pretty consistent in talking about his childhood bout with tb. And he does go on to focus on athletics. According to Paul, when he gets back to the States, he's an amateur boxer and wrestler. And he joins the military, where he becomes director of athletics for two regiments. Paul soon gets opportunities to prove his vitality. According to local newspaper articles, he makes not one, but two daring water rescues in the span of just a few months. The first time, he pulls a drowning man out of the ocean to safety. Then he rescues a friend swept up in the Shenandoah River. President Woodrow Wilson sends him a letter commending him for his bravery. About a month later, Paul moves to Missouri to run the athletic department at a military academy. But he has bigger ambitions. He wants to be a leader in the realm of health and fitness. So in trying to establish himself as a brand, he makes some, let's say, bold claims like that he taught President Theodore Roosevelt's sons how to box and wrestle and that he once jumped from the Brooklyn Bridge. In 1915, Paul gets married. He and his wife go on to have two daughters. And for a while, the family bounces around the country as Paul finds jobs that let him spread the good word of fitness. Reports from the time claim that he was the physical director of New York City public schools and a wrestling and basketball coach. And in some of his tellings, including the official Bragg Co. Story, this is also around when he gets his Ph.D. in nutrition. And, Sarah, I know this might come as a surprise, but we couldn't find any official records that verify this account.

[Sarah Haggie]

Hmm, you don't say. And it's not like he got it off the Internet, so I don't know where he got that PhD from.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah, that predates that little scam. Well, sometime in the early 1920s, Paul moves his family west to California. He Works at the YMCA in Los Angeles. But he doesn't want to be limited to his YMCA members. Paul made a commitment to spread his ideas about health and fitness worldwide. He spent his early life building up an image for himself. And now it's time to sell it. In the 1920s, Paul opens his health food store in downtown Los Angeles. He claims it's the nation's first. The shelves are lined with Bragg brand products for shoppers looking to improve their health. Like Bragg Liquid Aminos. It's basically a type of soy sauce made by soaking soybeans in hydrochloric acid. Then there's live Sprinkle, which is supposedly a healthier substitute for salt. The main ingredient in live sprinkle is salt. Paul's ideas and products place him among a growing ecosystem of Southern California health weirdos like Gaylord Hauser, a chiropractor with a naturopathy degree who was the inventor of the celebrity diet. He claimed he cured his tuberculosis by eating 36 lemons a day. Greta Garbo and Marlene Dietrich were big fans. Or Bernard McFadden, a health fanatic who founded Physical Culture magazine and popularized fasting in America. He is the originator of the keto diet and also promoted eating grapes to cure cancer. I just want to pause here for a moment to say that his name at birth was Bernard and he changed it to Bernard because it sounds more like a lion's roar. Wow.

[Sarah Haggie]

It's crazy that people like this are always the same, no matter what era they're in. Like, it's still the same weird delusion. And you're like, I guess I should have to go with it and pretend that that's okay.

[Sachi Cole]

Hey, being a freak is a lifetime appointment. Well, Paul sets himself apart from this crowd with his media savvy. He gives lectures, hosts a radio show, and writes an advice column in the LA Times called Health Hints. In the column, he says that people with chronic constipation are notoriously gloomy and that eating, quote, poisonous food mixtures is akin to suicide. He praises, quote, drugless practitioners and says the pill addicts of the world could learn something from them. He's also boosting his profile by organizing in person events like a hiking group called the Wanderlusters Hiking club. Paul starts putting out a goal for himself and his become centurions. In some of his lectures, he promises people that, quote, you can banish all disease and live to be a hundred years. Sometimes he goes even further, like in this interview from a bit later in his life. I don't want to Live just a hundred years. I want to live indefinitely. I want to prove to the world that is possible. At this point, Paul is about 30 and he looks like the epitome of California health. Thick head of hair, sun kissed skin, a muscular bod and a wide straight smile. Sarah, take a look at the photos from these group outings.

[Sarah Haggie]

Okay, These are scary photos. This is out of a horror movie. This is like a flashback they have in get out.

[Sachi Cole]

Okay, but what is it?

[Sarah Haggie]

Yeah, I mean, the first photo, there are dozens of people hiking, you know, in the hills. Very typical LA scene. And the second photo, they're in front of a house on like a huge yard. They all have their arms out in like a T shape. Like they're all working out together. And these are like adult babies. Like, it looks like a scary cult. It looks like somewhere you and I, if we were there, we'd never, we would be disappeared anyway. I'm scared. Keep going, please.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah, I am also scared. And in the midst of Paul's rise, he befriends fellow health nut Bernard, who becomes a kind of mentor to him. Paul writes for Bernard's physical fitness magazine for a while and adopts many of his ideas. He starts a newsletter through his health food store and Bernard inspires him to take his lectures on the road. Touring the country will get his message. Far beyond the LA health craze bubble, Paul is building a dedicated audience who look to him for tips to stay fit. But to be the global influence he promised God that he would become, Paul needs to turn his loyal followers into paying customers. Starting in 1929, Paul sets out on a traveling speaking series. He advertises himself as the president of the National Diet and Health association of America, an organization he seems to have created himself. Photos from a few years later show him standing on a stage in front of shelves lined with glass bottles, dressed in an all white suit. His vibe is somewhere between the wizard of Oz, a carnival barker and a real medical doctor, which, to be clear, he is not. Paul is spreading his own good word and building up his own mythology. Like he starts telling people he competed as a member of the US wrestling team in both the 1908 London Olympics and the 1912 Stockholm Olympics. The only thing is, he would have been 13 and 17 years old. And according to Paul's earlier life story, that's the same time he was at the Sun Sanatorium in Switzerland. Oh, and the Encyclopedia of American Wrestling does not list him as a member of the teams in any of those years.

[Sarah Haggie]

These are really crazy lies. To tell. I mean, even outside of the Internet age, very easy to verify how old someone was and where they were at a specific point in time.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah, but Paul makes the Olympic stories seem more believable and his diet and fitness advice more impressive. By telling another lie. This one becomes the foundation of his whole enterprise. He claims that he was actually born in 1881, not in 1895. We're all used to people saying that they're younger than they are. But Paul is trying to make himself seem older by nearly 15 years. Presumably that's so people would look at him and think, wow, you look so good for your age. And then buy into his health program.

[Sarah Haggie]

I mean, that's pretty genius. You have to show people what you're selling them. And he's selling this idea that he's never gonna die. And you know what? You could never die if you just kind of keep changing when you were born.

[Sachi Cole]

No, you'll still die, Sarah.

[Sarah Haggie]

No, you'll live forever. I mean, in the sense of you can lie about never dying. No. Yes you can. You can imagine an 8 year old being like, I'm actually a hundred and something. You'd be like, well, you're never gonna die.

[Sachi Cole]

No, Sarah, that's not how that works.

[Sarah Haggie]

It's flawless logic. It really is. Flawless logic.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah. I mean, we don't even have time to get into that one. But Paul's marketing skills start to pay off and his shows are packed. Audiences are lured in by his ads and claims of expertise and they're entertained by his feats of strength. Then he starts telling them his kooky diet theories, like that tonsillitis is caused by eating mucus forming foods, especially white bread. Paul hates white bread. He blames it for causing asthma and stomach gas. Here he is talking about some of his philosophies in a later interview. You're a universe within yourself. If you learn to put material in your body that causes no. No mucus, no obstruction, no piling up of cholesterol and fat, you have found the secret of life. The lectures themselves may be free, but a collection basket is passed around halfway through. Attendees can also pay for a private session with Paul for the low, low price of $20, the equivalent of almost $500 today. Plus they can buy his book, cure yourself to study at home. Paul is making money and he's also making his mark. After one talk in Oakland, he has a consultation with a sickly 15 year old high school dropout named Jack Lalanne. Sarah, do you know Jack Lalanne?

[Sarah Haggie]

I don't but I feel like he, I don't know, probably is responsible for something stupid.

[Sachi Cole]

Jack lalanne is known as the godfather of fitness. He used to host this fitness TV show and fitness clubs. You know, he actually popularized the Jumping Jack. Did you ever watch Arrested Development? Do you remember that character Uncle Jack that's played by Martin Short. Yeah, that's fake Jack lalanne.

[Sarah Haggie]

Oh, that's genius.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah. Well, during their one on one time, Jack tells Paul that he eats cake, pies and ice cream at every meal. Paul calls him a walking garbage can. It's a moment of awakening for Jack. And years later, after he becomes a fitness icon, Jack says that this meeting with Paul is what spurred him to become a wellness crusader. These tours have made Paul one of the biggest health and fitness influencers in the country. But with this attention comes scrutiny. And someone else is about to learn about Paul's miraculous claims. The US government. In the late 1920s, Paul takes his enterprise to the next level by starting a mail order business. It's the beginning of the Great Depression, so most people don't have a lot of disposable income. But those same economic issues mean that people are eager for cheap, quick fixes to their problems, making them vulnerable to fraud. And right now there isn't much federal regulation to protect people from quack doctors. People are primed to eat up Paul's advice like so many supplements. And now it's more accessible than ever. All you have to do is send a few dollars in the mail to his company, Live Food Products Inc. One of the products available through the USPS is Glantex, a medicine that Paul says makes you feel 20 years younger. He claims it feeds the glands and rejuvenates every cell in the body. Paul says he developed Glantex after 10 years of experiments and that it's been used on thousands of patients with great success. You can write in to get a free 30 day trial and after that it's just five bucks a month, which would be just over $100 today. In reality, Glantex is actually just a mix of alfalfa, green extract, oats, carrots, celery, lettuce, spinach, cabbage, orchic substance and pituitary gland substance. And Paul's health claims about the pills are dubious. Paul is at best a fabulist and at worst a liar. But I can't help but wonder if he actually believes in the product somewhere deep down. What do you think?

[Sarah Haggie]

I don't know. I think Paul believes mostly in himself. I think he's trying things out, but believes he is the key to these answers and he's the key to changing how people think about health and wellness. And he's going to just keep trying until he lands on something that quote unquote works.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah, everything about Paul's approach is very familiar to what we see on TikTok or on Instagram every day. And expanding to the mail is good for Paul's bank account, even if we don't know if he believes in the product. But it also draws the attention of a federal authority. The Postmaster General gets wind of Paul's business and assigns agents to investigate him. It's illegal to use the post office to carry out a scheme. In December 1930, a mail fraud order is issued against Paul and some of his affiliated companies. The case centers on Glantex and one of Paul's publications titled the Truth About Sex. The postmaster says it doesn't conform with the postal regulations of the time, although I'm not really sure in what way. We couldn't get our hands on a copy, but it sounds like the book is pretty sexist and medically unsound. On the other hand, Paul apparently thinks women should enjoy sex and advocates for birth control.

[Sarah Haggie]

Wow, that is so revolutionary of him.

[Sachi Cole]

At the time and still frankly. Well, in theory, Paul shouldn't be able to use the mail to distribute his materials or products after this all goes down. But according to one of the leading anti huckster publications of the time, Paul gets around the order by simply advertising under his mother's maiden name. Paul seems to have gotten around the mail cops. But he's about to face someone singularly declared determined to take down his type of wellness scammer, a public health official.

[Sarah Haggie]

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[Sachi Cole]

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[Sarah Haggie]

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[Sachi Cole]

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[Sarah Haggie]

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[Sachi Cole]

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[Sarah Haggie]

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[Sachi Cole]

Sarah, as you know, I don't like summer. I don't like feeling hot and I don't like dressing for summer. But I have some dresses from Quinn's. I love wearing them. Especially when it's super hot outside and I'm sweating and I don't know what to wear and I always look cute.

[Sarah Haggie]

Yeah, I mean you. You do always look cute in your quint stuff.

[Sachi Cole]

Thank you.

[Sarah Haggie]

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[Sachi Cole]

That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com scampod to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com scampod I feel like a legend. It's March 1935, about five years after Paul's run in with the Postmaster General. And Dr. George C. Ruland is fed up. He's a sober looking man with a sensible professional haircut, which really fits his job. The District Health Officer for Washington dc. He kind of looks like Luke Perry if you squint. Oh, yeah.

[Sarah Haggie]

I mean, he definitely looks like a man who means business. And he has one of those old timey faces.

[Sachi Cole]

Don't you think? He looks like an old Canadian president. I can't get over it.

[Sarah Haggie]

You know the vibe.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah, well, George has one. Making Washington D.C. an unwelcome place for what he calls, quote, health propagandists. These are people like Paul who prey upon gullible, often desperate victims. George knows that the money these quacks steal should be spent on real medical advice and treatment. And it's a lot of money. He estimates that these frauds are pulling in $50 million a year. Over 1.1 billion in today's dollars. Specifically, he thinks Paul is earning about eight grand per week from his private consultations, which is more than $185,000 in today's money. George takes public health seriously. He was a city health commissioner for Milwaukee during the global flu epidemic of 1918 and responded aggressively to the disease. He ordered the temporary closure of many public gathering places and prohibited loitering in the city saloons, which was a big deal for the home of Miller Highlife. But his swift action helped Milwaukee weather the flu much better than other American cities and likely saved thousands of lives.

[Sarah Haggie]

So this is someone who actually knows what they're talking about? Basically, yes.

[Sachi Cole]

This is an expert. And George learns that Paul is planning to deliver a series of lectures in Washington, D.C. to discuss the healthy living tips he supposedly picked up from Pacific Islanders. Paul advertises the lecture as, quote, south sees Magic. George sees a golden opportunity. He sends some of his people to collect information by attending the first lectures and taking Paul's paid course. They report back that Paul offered to teach them how to live to be 100, regain their eyesight, and cure themselves of gallstones. Then George enlists the health department chemists to get to the bottom of what is in Paul's miracle products. While Paul claims his products can cure all sorts of diseases, the chemist says that they're actually mostly made of dehydrated vegetables, alfalfa and salt. Eventually, George has enough evidence to arrest Paul for violating a D.C. law that prohibits practicing medicine without a license. Paul is set to deliver another lecture on April 24th at the Masonic Temple. It's a huge building full of gilded walls and ornate decorative plaster molds. And the room is packed. That's when George makes his move. He has the cops swarm Paul's dressing room to arrest him before he goes on stage. The police take Paul away, leaving the event in chaos. But while the police raid can stop Paul's lecture, they can't stop his opening act. A group of four Hawaiian musicians wearing leis and strumming guitars softly standing in front of shelves lined with black and green bottles. Then one of Paul's employees takes the stage. She's his financial secretary, but she's wearing a nurse's uniform. A newspaper article about the event describes her as blonde and buxom. She announces to the audience that Paul has been arrested, and the crowd erupts in protest. There's actually a photo of her with Paul that runs in the paper. Can you take a look at this photo and the headline that they used?

[Sarah Haggie]

The headline says, Lost Daimys Health talk. South Seas Magic is lost to audience and it's a photo of Paul doing a demonstration with an assistant. And I guess the point is the government is stopping people from learning about their health, correct?

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah, it's a pretty loaded headline. Well, George is satisfied. In the meantime, there are plenty of other quacks out there. But he's taken Paul off the streets for at least one night. Now he just has to hope that Paul gets convicted. But George doesn't realize that Paul is going to get help from an unlikely source. The very people he's been fleecing. Paul has positioned himself as a pioneer in the field of health. And at 40 years old, he's really making history. Paul is the first person prosecuted under Washington's anti quack statute. Almost as soon as he's arrested, Paul is freed on $1,000 bail. The next night, hundreds of people visit his lawyer's office with sealed envelopes of cash to help pay for his legal fees. The next day after that, Paul arrives for his first day in court and the government comes out swinging. They outline all of their evidence, including the chemist's findings about Bragg's bogus products. For his part, Paul has a crowd of supporters who fill the courtroom and applaud so loudly they disrupt the proceedings. When Paul leaves the courthouse after the first day, he's greeted by 800 mostly middle aged female fans. He gives a rousing style speech highlighting his main defense, that he's being persecuted. The government is trampling on his free speech and American values demand that the people stand with him. He asks the crowd to give three cheers for Abraham Lincoln and one of his fans cries out, quote, there never was an emancipator who wasn't persecuted.

[Sarah Haggie]

Yeah, I mean, I guess it's the same kind of thing about being obsessed with like freedom, right? Someone like Paul doesn't have much to stand on as far as factual evidence goes that he has no choice but to turn this into something bigger about government controlling what you can and cannot do and consume and what is considered medicine and health. And then in turn turning it into a type of like persecution complex of, see, I'm so correct that they are trying to silence me. And of course these people will eat it up.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah, it's very RFK Jr. And that night, Paul returns to the Masonic Temple where he was arrested days earlier, and gives a speech where he repeats a lot of the same points. Paul's followers are fired up. They fill up the benches for the entire trial, which lasts a week. Two weeks after that, the judge hands down the verdict. Paul is found guilty and he's ordered to pay a fine of $100. That's about $2,300. Today, Paul is chastened, sort of. He promises not to violate the law again, but he also tells a reporter that he's toured in almost every state in the country and this is the first time he's ever had. He says he's heading back to California, but don't worry, he tells the reporter that he'll be back to lecture in D.C. in the fall. Paul has made it through his biggest legal challenge yet, almost completely unscathed. Now he can go back to growing his business. And after decades of health hustling, he'll meet the person who will help him grow Bragg Live Foods from a successful business into an Empire. It's January 1956, more than 20 years after Paul's run in with the law and he's back in a courtroom. But this time the court is in Los Angeles and he's not the star of the show. That honor belongs to the pint sized 26 year old Patricia Bragg. This is the same Patricia who gave Katy Perry the guitar at the beginning of this episode. Sarah and today Patricia is wearing her blonde curls pinned back and is dressed for court in all black. Patricia is in family court with her husband, Robert Bragg. Robert is a chiropractor, a health food store owner and Paul's son. And until today, he was accusing Patricia and his father of a crime. We know that Patricia was born in the bay area in 1929, but we don't know much about her life between then and when she moved to Southern California and started dating Robert. They've been married for about four years now. Later, Patricia claims to have known the Bragg family all her life. She says that she was, quote, programmed to marry Paul's son. It might have been predetermined that Patricia would marry Robert, but it definitely wasn't fate for them to stay married. According to Patricia, her husband told her that actually he's not the marriage type. He was never home for dinner on time and his behavior literally gave her a nervous rash. Unable to deal with her flaky husband, Patricia got attention and support from her father in law. Not much has changed for Paul in the last couple of decades. He's been consistently lecturing, promoting his products and growing the Bragg brand. He still has a loose relationship to the truth. A few years back he did an event where he claimed a four month old baby would perform strongman feats on stage. And he's still getting Dinged by the law every so often, like an FTC order in the early 50s banning one of his supplements. Even with these legal warnings, Patricia totally buys into Paul's teachings. They've grown close. So close that when she filed for divorce, Robert made an explosive charge that Patricia and his father, father were quote, romancing and that the two had traveled together as man and wife. When a judge asked why he didn't try to get his wife back, Robert said, oh, sir, I don't want her back.

[Sarah Haggie]

That's disgusting. These people are absolutely disgusting. Cursed, cursed family. Oh my God. Like, yeah, no wonder he wouldn't want to take his wife back if she was allegedly, you know, what with his father.

[Sachi Cole]

Well, today Robert is withdrawing those charges. Patricia sits in court and listens as Robert says that actually he was just angry after their separation. This is a big event. It even gets covered in the LA Times under the headline Son drops his charge linking wife and father. The story is accompanied by a photo of the trio in the courtroom holding hands after Robert drops the charge. Paul and Patricia are beaming. And Robert not so much. Take a look.

[Sarah Haggie]

This is nasty work. I mean, yes, she is sitting in between her father in law and husband. All of their hands are on one another, but the body language is clearly like, oh yeah, me and Paul are together. And Robert, thanks for your service, you know, yeah, it's just kind of gross. Like, Paul is a nasty piece of work. Patricia's nasty, Robert seems checked out, to be honest.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah, it's a weird dynamic. And Robert and Patricia's divorce is finalized a few months later. And while she might be down a husband, she's gained a new mentor and father figure in Paul. While Patricia's marriage to Robert may have made news at the time, it quickly recedes from public memory. And that allows them to introduce a new lie to the story of Bragg Live Foods, that Paul is Patricia's biological father.

[Sarah Haggie]

If she's claiming that Paul is her biological father now she is someone who was once married to her biological brother and accused of cheating on her husband, slash biological brother with her father in law, biological father. It just seems like such an overly complicated way to bring someone into your business.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah, it's a wreck. And Patricia has clearly learned from Paul's loose grasp on the truth and flair for dramatic personal narratives. She rushes to position herself as the rightful heir to the Bragg legacy. She starts sharing fake memories from her childhood with Paul. But she does have some seemingly legit credentials. About a year and a half after her divorce, Patricia patents her own health a Quote, douche or enema device that can be mounted between a water supply and a discharge nozzle. But Patricia and official Bragg marketing claimed that this made her the youngest woman to be granted a US Patent, which is definitely not true. A couple of years after that, Patricia gets an even bigger spotlight when Paul launches a new TV show. It's called Paul Bragg's Health and Happiness Show. It features Paul and Patricia wearing matching tracksuits as they lead the home viewer in an exercise routine. Take a look at this photo of them in their coordinated outfits. Very cool.

[Sarah Haggie]

Yes. It's a black and white photo. Paul is getting old and. And Patricia, they're just wearing these tracksuits and they look like they're in the middle of activity.

[Sachi Cole]

They look like Joanne and Hal. Remember Hal and Joanne?

[Sarah Haggie]

Yeah. I mean, we can't introduce people now to Body Break.

[Sachi Cole]

I think actually this is a perfect time to introduce Americans to Body Break.

[Sarah Haggie]

Yeah, I mean, growing up in Canada, we would get commercials of.

[Sachi Cole]

They were these PSAs for hell, this.

[Sarah Haggie]

Couple, Hal Johnson and Joanne McLeod, who also never admitted to being a couple.

[Sachi Cole]

You know what? Me and my dad ran into them once at the mall and they were holding hands.

[Sarah Haggie]

Oh, my God. Anyway, they would appear on TV all the time dressed in tracksuits and Body Break. It was called Body Break. It was just like a quick commercial to show you how to get up and move your body. And it is very, very important to all Canadians. Yeah, every single Canadian who grew up in, like, the 90s, early 2000s. It's all about Body Break.

[Sachi Cole]

These guys are evil.

[Sarah Haggie]

Hal and Joanne, they're literally their tethers. They're their nasty tethers.

[Sachi Cole]

Well, while Patricia and Paul may have found each other under unusual circumstances, they are a match made in health heaven. Patricia is Paul's most devoted follower, and she's positioned to take over the company. And when she does, she'll make sure Bragg's pseudoscience stays popular with a whole new generation of wellness buffs. After years of learning under Paul, Patricia becomes CEO of Bragg Live Foods in the 1970s. At this point, Paul is nearing 80, in his actual age, and spending most of his time in Hawaii, where he teaches low impact fitness classes on the beach for free. As CEO, Patricia positions Bragg for the counterculture movement. She sells books and participates in bigger festivals, tours the world, and sells her skills as a consultant to the stars, making Bragg a hot brand in Hollywood. Patricia also refocuses the business end of things. In 1972, she publishes a book about apple cider vinegar. Bragg live Food Products has been selling ACV since almost the beginning of the company, but Patricia is setting it up to be their signature product. Sarah, tell me what you know about apple cider vinegar.

[Sarah Haggie]

It's one of those things that I heard about, looked up and realized it was kind of like bullshit or the studies were based on taking enormous quantities in a. You know, when the science is kind of flubbed in that way. But it is a mainstay ingredient wise in so many health food products. You don't even think about it. Almost.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah, it's really, really common now. Well, apple cider vinegar is made by double fermenting apple juice. People use it in salad dressing and other cooking or they just dilute it in water and drink it. It's a good thing ACV is so easy to use. Patricia's brochure says that it can help you lose weight, gain weight, treat heart disease, baldness, kidney problems, and even female troubles.

[Sarah Haggie]

Okay, well, now that I know it helps with female troubles. Yeah, get me a pint of ACV right now.

[Sachi Cole]

Well, Patricia is keeping busy as an evangelist for the Bragg name and brand. But in July 1976, she gets some scary news. Paul has had a heart attack while surfing in Hawaii. He survives thanks to CPR performed by a nurse on the scene, but he's permanently weakened and just a few months later, he dies on a trip to Miami. On. But Paul achieves one of his biggest victories in death since he's been lying about his age for practically his whole life. Newspapers report that he was 95 when he died, rather than his true age of 81. And sure, 81 isn't exactly young, but the idea that he lived that long and that a 95 year old was surfing makes the whole Bragg program look much more legit. His protege, Jack lalanne emcees his funeral. Patricia is a passionate caretaker of the Bragg legacy, But as the culture welcomes wellness trends into the mainstream, she will be the person having to answer for their broken promises. You know what they say, every journey starts with a single step. And when it comes to your financial future, that first step might be easier than you think. With Chime.

[Sarah Haggie]

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[Sachi Cole]

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[Sarah Haggie]

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[Sachi Cole]

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[Sarah Haggie]

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[Sachi Cole]

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[Sarah Haggie]

Also, it's not just fashion. Their beauty and home collections are incredible too. Sachi I have been wearing the stuff I got from Revolve all the time and it was all like really good summer stuff for me. Like I feel like I'm very particular about what kind of fabrics I'm using. I got a really cute top from Citizens of Humanity and like a cute linen kind of like summer thing from Ciao Lucia, which I love.

[Sachi Cole]

That's a good haul. From last minute getaways to party dressing and seasonal upgrades, Revolve has you covered with fast two day shipping and easy returns all on them. And for a limited time, you can shop a curated selection of my favorite [e-mail] scampod and receive 15% off your first order with code scampod.

[Sarah Haggie]

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[Sachi Cole]

I feel like I In the years following Paul's death, Patricia takes her stewardship of the Bragg brand very seriously. She's assuming control of the company right when wellness is hitting Primetime. In 1979, 60 Minutes airs a segment about the concept, landing it in living rooms across America. Here's Dan Rather introducing the segment. There's a word you don't hear every day. It means exactly what you might think it means the opposite of illness. It's a movement that is catching on all over the country. Among Doctors, nurses and others concerned with medical care. Patricia continues in Paul's footsteps, marketing herself as a life extension specialist through speaking tours. She levels up their product line with apple cider vinegar, drinks ACV with honey, and the hippie staple, nutritional yeast. She also makes a change to the marketing of their acv. You know, the cloudy sediment in a bottle of acv. It's basically the bacteria that feeds on sugar in liquids like vinegar. It's called Mother. And the Bragg company makes a point of saying they keep the mother in their product. As Bragg and other wellness brands gain traction, Patricia's ideas become more mainstream. But that also puts them under additional scrutiny. She's not exactly interested in defending the products on their scientific merits. Sometime after Patricia publishes her book the Miracle of fasting in 2004, she appears in a live call in segment on K E Y T, a local Santa Barbara news station. She's in conversation with reporter Debbie Davison. Debbie has a quintessential 90s haircut. Think Princess Di meets a mullet. And she's wearing beige head to toe. That is a sharp contrast with the Technicolor Patricia, who's wearing floral print leggings, a bright yellow blazer, and has pink and purple flowers in her hair. She's even holding a bouquet in her hands for some reason. One of the first calls tosses Patricia a big old softball. Is drinking vinegar good for your health? Here's what Patricia says. Oh, drinking vinegar is wonderful. The organic raw vinegar with the mother what it does, it purifies and cleanses your body. Just like when you wash your windows with apple cider vinegar. Takes the gunk out.

[Sarah Haggie]

What the hell?

[Sachi Cole]

Shut up.

[Sarah Haggie]

People can say anything just because something tastes like ass and it feels like because this tastes bad and I'm drinking it, it must be doing something good for me because it's also not alcohol or like, has any sort of drug effect. I don't know, honestly. Sure, go off Patricia.

[Sachi Cole]

While Patricia also says that while the old adage is an apple, a day keeps a doctor away, a teaspoon of ACV has the same effect. But the next caller reflects a rising skepticism. Her name is Trina and she says that she read a book claiming that you should avoid vinegar when you have yeast problems. Trina wants to know what Patricia thinks. Patricia switches tone. She becomes serious and stumbles over her words slightly when she says that they don't believe in distilled processed vinegars. She says Trina should try the best, most natural vinegar first and see how that helps. She then turns to the reporter, Debbie, with her lips pursed.

[Sarah Haggie]

The thing here is, why can't she just be like, oh, you know what? That actually might not be helpful for a yeast infection. That she wants us so badly to be a cure all that everyone should be drinking all the time to me is so sinister. It's not even like there's a specific use. Just glug, glug, glug, and you'll be okay.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah, I mean, you can't ask questions if you're just drinking potion, you know. Well, then in 1992, a doctor from the National Council Against Health Fraud is quoted in an article arguing that vinegar has absolutely nothing to do with longevity. Sure, there's some evidence that having diluted ACV every day can help manage blood sugar and cholesterol. Might even help a little bit with weight loss. But that's likely due to the acetic acid, which is found in any vinegar. An ACV probably won't cure your cancer. It actually has some negative health effects, including eroding your tooth enamel, contributing to acid reflux, and may actually be detrimental if you have kidney disease. Oh, and by the way, this article is debunking supposed youth potions tied to the release of the movie Death Becomes Her. Great film.

[Sarah Haggie]

Incredible film. And this is so funny that this is happening in 1992 and here we are in 2025. I think a lot of people will be shocked by the longevity of this scam.

[Sachi Cole]

It's really sustained itself. Well, Patricia's ace in the hole has been the mother, which makes the vinegar look more healthy and natural. But there isn't evidence that it makes Bragg's products any healthier than filtered acv. In fact, the bacteria can't survive in our stomachs, so it can't possibly have any positive probiotic effects. These criticisms might put a small dent into Patricia's grift, but the company is still motoring along. It's around this time that Patricia gives a young Katy Perry her first guitar. And as the new millennium dawns, these kind of health products are more mainstream than ever. The organic food market totals $17 billion in 2006, and that is the same year that even Walmart starts to prioritize. Organic food Rag even opens a new headquarters in a coveted ranch that Patricia buys. It's home to test kitchens, apple orchards, a rose garden, and cabins that house her large doll collection. But this expanding real estate portfolio is going to bring a curious journalist to Patricia's doorstep, and he's going to ask the questions that she spent a lifetime dodging. It's early 2008 in Hawaii, and Patricia is about to talk to a journalist. That's not abnormal. She does interviews all the time. There are usually puff pieces about her wellness tips. But this time is different. A few months ago, the newspaper Maui Time Weekly did a story about the 500 acres of Hawaiian land Patricia owns. The story implied that Patricia was partitioning the land to possibly sell. That makes her neighbors unhappy. So Patricia called the editor and insisted that he talk to her. And now she's meeting him at his office. The editor's name is Anthony Pignataro. With his plain dark hair and plain dark clothes, he really contrasts with Patricia's usual outfit of pink pantsuits and floppy pink hats. Patricia is used to getting her way, so she starts making herself at home. She pushes his computer to the side of the desk. Desk. And grabs a chair from the hallway for herself. She's very comfortable. She tells Anthony unprovoked, that she has never worn a bra. Patricia is ready to argue about her land, But Anthony tells her that he has something else to show. A copy of Patricia's real birth certificate. He points out the line naming her biological father according to this official government document. It's not Paul Bragg. This is one of the first times anyone has challenged Patricia about this lieutenant, and she's a little thrown off. So at first she tries to brush him off by saying that Paul legally adopted her years and years ago. But Anthony presses her and Patricia says that she had a wonderful mother and that both of her dads got along like brothers. She says she was very blessed.

[Sarah Haggie]

Oh, finally her weird ass family claim is coming back to light. This woman is insane.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah.

[Sarah Haggie]

Now her dads were like brothers. The dad that you may have cheated with on your brother. What? I hate these people.

[Sachi Cole]

Well, Patricia is a little nervous when Anthony publishes his reporting about her murky background. But nothing really seems to come out of it. No one else challenges her personal history, and she never has to go out of her way to directly address any debunking of their pseudoscientific promises. The years pass, and Patricia and Bragg are totally fine. Still, Patricia takes some steps to bolster Bragg's claims about their products to shore up her legacy. In 2013, Bragg releases a study in partnership with Arizona State University. The results find that Bragg organic apple cider vinegar drink lowered blood sugar in patients at risk for type 2 diabetes. And like her father in law, Patricia never stops the hustle. In the 2010s, she starts telling people that Bragg is so popular, they've caused a Shortage of organic apps, apples. She says that the Dalai Lama has traveled with Bragg Liquid Aminos for years, that her books have been the number one health books in Russia for decades, and that she has been Clint Eastwood's nutritionist for almost all of her adult life.

[Sarah Haggie]

There is something to be said about how ACV does have some health benefit, but instead of being like, hey, this small little thing could be great for you, it's this huge promise instead of just being honest, which is would still make people want to try it, you.

[Sachi Cole]

Know, I mean, that's what makes it a scam. Like Paul, Patricia seems to have dodged any real accountability, but she's about to hand the company off to another celebrity who's going to have to answer to a legion of haters. And this one is a real firework. It's 2022 and people on the Internet are mad at Katy Perry. That's not unusual. But this isn't because of her music or her girlboss feminism, or her continued work with the music producer Dr. Luke. Instead, Katy is being targeted by Bragg apple cider vinegar enthusiasts. It's been a few years since the investment group that included Katy and her husband Orlando Bloom, bought Bragg, and recently Bragg fans have been on YouTube and TikTok claiming that new management has dropped the ball. Specifically, these people claim that older bottles of ACV are darker than the new ones. They think that means that the older bottles had more of the mother sediment. Take a listen to what YouTuber Gage Girl Training had to say in the years following the scandal. We do know that the ownership of.

[Sarah Haggie]

Bragg's has changed in the last year or two with celebrity investors and whatnot, but it seems as though the quality has even decline. This is exactly what happens in these situations where people become obsessed with something they don't understand but has dubious health claims. The second something about it changes, they can create a conspiracy about the quality or whatever, but they also don't know what they're talking about at all, nor is it based in any fact. How are you going to rebuke what they're saying when there's no proof of anything at all?

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah, they're mad that their weird apple juice isn't as gross as it used to be. And people theorize that Bragg's new owners have been watering down the vinegar to make more profit. And we don't know for sure, but Katie is probably devastated by these allegations. Remember, Bragg isn't just an investment for her, it's personal. Even when One of the YouTubers actually tests the bottles and finds no difference between the batches. It's still damaging to the company's image and means criticism from the very same people Paul and Patricia were selling to all these years. The following year, Katie gets even worse news. Patricia dies in August 2023 at the ripe old age of 94. Katie makes a heartfelt Instagram post mourning her friend, early supporter, and lifelong inspiration. Sarah, can you close us out by reading the top comment as of this recording?

[Sarah Haggie]

Okay, the first comment says you destroyed a great product with Bill Gates apples. I can tell the quality has changed. I'm boycotting and won't be buying it anymore.

[Sachi Cole]

So, Sarah, will you be doing some sort of apple cider vinegar cleanse in the imminent future? No.

[Sarah Haggie]

I am so anti anything like that, as you know. But I do feel quite vindicated as a know it all because I've definitely mocked my loved ones who've been like, and if you use apple cider vinegar, and I'm just like, why? What is that? What does it do? Why do you care? And this is so sinister because you go to any bitch's kitchen, you open the cabinet under the sink, and there's a dusty ass bottle of that stuff of when they thought they were gonna change their whole lives. You know what I mean?

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah. I have bought apple cider vinegar once in my life to, I think, make a salad dressing that I didn't even like, and then I used it in a face mask that gave me a rash. So I also feel vindicated that all of this is total nonsense.

[Sarah Haggie]

Yeah, I mean, I'm just kind of floored by all of this because even without the dates, like if you took away the dates of everything and when this all happened and the history of this company, it could easily have been something that happened 10 years ago. You know what I mean? I think it just exemplifies so well how badly people want to believe that just buying this one thing's going to fix me and that it's always the same kind of conversation around it. I don't think it's bad for you, but I think it's scary when people are consuming things like this, thinking it will actually work and fix something for them instead of doing other proven methods.

[Sachi Cole]

It's funny too, because the only reason we really know about all of this and about the bullshit behind this company and this product is because Katy Perry bought it. And I don't know that we would even know or be adjudicating this if it weren't for people being mad at her all the time.

[Sarah Haggie]

I will Say one more thing once. My friend pissed me off so badly because she bought these vitamin gummies that were apple cider vinegar gummy. Ugh. And they literally just tasted like candy. And I was like, what do you think this is doing for you? Why are you buying this? Like, got me think it was doing so upset. I don't know. You know, she's like a really hot girl who, like, she's doing something right.

[Sachi Cole]

I feel like Bragg really tapped into a deeply human, innately human desire to just, just take one shot or bite of something disgusting and have it cure everything. And unfortunately, nothing is that simple.

[Sarah Haggie]

Nothing is that simple. Also, like, buy something else. 90% of the time you just want to buy something and that's what cures you. Just buy something else.

[Sachi Cole]

Yeah. Instead of letting capitalism trick you into wellness scams, let it trick you into some makeup.

[Sarah Haggie]

Let it trick you into something like a nice outfit, a gun, a book, a good book written by someone. Someone who knows what they're talking about.

[Sachi Cole]

A weapon.

[Sarah Haggie]

Go to the movies. Buy some candy.

[Sachi Cole]

Locusts. Loving Scamflunsters get exclusive episodes and early access to new ones. All ad free on Wondry Plus. Join now in the Wondry app, Apple podcasts or Spotify. Before you go, help us out by taking a quick [e-mail] survey this is Paul and Patricia Bragg, the mother of all wellness scams. I'm Sachi Kol.

[Sarah Haggie]

And I'm Sarah Hagie. If you have a tip for us on a story that you think we should cover, please email [e-mail] we use many sources in our research. A few that were particularly helpful were the Maintenance phase Podcast Apple Cider Vinegar Fans are Mad at Katy Perry by Jennifer Jaya Saxena and Eater the Mysterious hippie food Brand that's Never Let Me down by Kyle Beachy in Bon Appetit, How Americans Became Obsessed with Drinking Apple Cider Vinegar by Nadia Berenstein in Epicurious in the Name of the Father by Anthony Pignataro in maui time weekly. 100 years of health with Patricia Bragg by Colleen Holland in veg news and contemporaneous reporting about Paul Bragg in the LA Times, the Washington Herald and the Washington Daily News.

[Sachi Cole]

Jessica Ford wrote this episode. Additional writing by us, Sachi Cole and Sarah Hacke. Eric Thurm is our story editor. Fact checking by Lexi Perry. Sound design by James Morgan. Additional audio assistance provided by Augustine Lim. Our music supervisor is Scott Velasquez for Freeze on Sync. Our managing producer is Desi Blaylock. Our senior managing producer is Callum Plews. Jeanine Cornello and Stephanie Jens are a developer producers Our associate producer is Charlotte Miller. Our producer is Julie McGruder. Our senior producers are Sarah Ennie and Ginny Blume. Our executive producers are Jenny Lauer, Beckman, Marshall Louie and Erin O' Flaherty. For [e-mail] we know some travelers crave an ocean breeze. Others don't want to deal with sand, and oftentimes those two people end up together. Compare properties side by side to find yourself poolside, oceanside and still in a relationship.

[Sarah Haggie]

Find your perfect somewhere with hotels dot com.