The Salt Path: A Long Walk From the Truth | 202

Summary

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Scamfluencers Podcast Summary

Episode: The Salt Path: A Long Walk From the Truth (202)

Release Date: February 23, 2026
Hosts: Scaachi Koul & Sarah Hagi

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Overview

This episode delves deep into the riveting, multifaceted story behind the international bestseller and now film, The Salt Path by "Raynor Wynn" (real name Sally Walker). The memoir, once heralded as a beacon of hope and resilience, is reexamined after an exposé reveals a web of literary fraud, financial lies, and fabricated nobility. Hosts Scaachi and Sarah untangle how inspirational storytelling can slide into deception, leading thousands to root for — and then recoil from — its supposed heroes.

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Key Discussion Points

1. The Allure and Power of a Story (00:07–04:00)

• The episode opens with infamous literary fabrications: A Million Little Pieces and Go Ask Alice set the backdrop for skepticism around inspirational memoirs.
• “Anytime anyone talks about, like, climbing up a mountain. Like, you didn’t prove it, loser.” — Sachi Kol (00:47)
• The premise and summary of The Salt Path: a couple loses everything, faces terminal illness, walks 630 miles, and claims miraculous health improvements.

2. Red Carpet, Bestseller — and a Shocking Turn (00:59–05:23)

• The glamorous film adaptation (starring Gillian Anderson) takes center stage, only to later become embroiled in scandal after investigative reporting questions the memoir’s truth.
• “A report published in The Observer reveals troubling details about Rainer and Moth’s past that throws their entire [story] into question.” — Sachi Kol (04:17)

3. Sally Walker’s Early Life and the Seed of Fraud (06:30–12:33)

• A substantial segment covers Sally (Raynor’s real identity) and her humble beginnings, marriage to Tim, and the couple’s financial strain.
• Discovery of Sally’s embezzlement: £64,000 missing from her employer, leading to her first (covered-up) crime and hush agreement.
• “She just keeps talking about how hard it is for her to cough up the money without acknowledging she’s not the victim here.” — Sachi Kol (12:33)
• The hush money, legal maneuvering, and NDAs keep her out of prison — but pile on more debt.

4. Desperation and Escalating Schemes (12:33–22:30)

• Sally borrows £100,000 at extortionate rates to avoid prosecution, leading to further hardship.
• A failed attempt to start a publishing company and bizarre house-lottery scam to offload their farmhouse.
• “They decide to launch a publishing company because indie publishing companies are a famously sound financial model.” — Sachi Kol (19:18)
• The only book published is seemingly autobiographical and tied to a ‘win our house’ contest — with no winner ever announced.

5. The Walk — Truth or Manufactured Miracle? (22:30–29:55)

• The Walkers, now homeless and reeling from Tim’s diagnosis of corticobasal degeneration (CBD), embark on the Southwest Coast Path hike.
• Sarah sympathizes with the motivation: “I can see how that's appealing in this type of situation…nothing to lose.”
• The memoir’s keystone: walking allegedly reverses Tim’s symptoms — though experts will later question the accuracy and plausibility.

6. Rewriting Their Story and Literary Fame (29:55–34:15)

• Sally pens The Salt Path for Tim’s memory; a daughter urges publication.
• To shield their past, Sally adopts “Raynor Wynn” and changes key details of their misfortune, painting them strictly as victims.
• “Sally insists on being the perfect protagonist…only it’s not quite her name and not quite her story.” — Sachi Kol (31:42)
• The book finds overwhelming success, inspiring millions, earning Sally $12 million and opportunities including a benefactor offering them a farm.

7. The Truth Unravels — and the Real Scandal Emerges (34:15–47:02)

• Bill Cole, their patron, grows suspicious after inconsistencies in Tim’s health claims and their lack of farm stewardship.
• Investigative journalist Chloe Hajimathe contacts Roz Hemmings (Sally’s ex-employer, first victim), giving Roz the long-awaited chance to expose Sally.
• The Observer exposé lays bare Sally’s real identity, her prior fraud, the house raffle scam, and the misleading portrayal of homelessness and medical miracles.
• “The story that led to an international bestseller... appears to be based on a series of mischaracterizations, exaggerations, and outright lies.” — Sachi Kol (37:43)
• Revelations include: the Walkers already owned property in France; Tim’s illness was exceedingly mild; and their timeline, financial, and medical claims were dubious.

8. Fallout — Public and Private Consequences (47:02–53:00)

• Sally denies many allegations but admits “mistakes were made.” Publishing giant Penguin halts her next book’s release.
• Family members come forward, claiming Sally stole from relatives and fabricated illness — producing letters she disputes.
• The rare disease community is especially aggrieved by the false hope given.

9. Cultural Reflections: Memoir, Fact-Checking, and the Scamfluencer Era (49:20–52:25)

• The hosts contrast the impact of truth versus fiction in memoir, drawing parallels to prior literary frauds.
• “These books...only work if you care that somebody did it. It has to be true, otherwise it’s valueless.” — Sachi Kol (50:06)
• Discussion of publisher accountability: “If something seems too good to be true, don’t hold onto the social contract of feeling bad that you’re questioning a sick person.” — Sarah Hagie (51:26)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• The Fraud's Emotional Core:
  “The most evil thing they did was telling people who are chronically ill that if you go for a little walk, you too can be pain free.” — Sachi Kol (50:34)

• Authority on Memoir Fact-Checking:
  “A lot of people don’t do it. They just trust the writer. Of course you’re gonna have stuff like this happen periodically.” — Sachi Kol (51:39)

• Family Reaction:
  “We never worried. Let’s put it like that.” — An unnamed Wynn family member, on the severity of Tim’s reported illness (46:44)

• Meta Commentary:
  “How many books about walking can you be writing? Like, at a certain point, you’re going to need to sit down.” — Sarah Hagie (45:32)

• Host’s Take on Literary Fraud:
  “Everything was mostly fraudulent with the exception of the actual walking. Like, of all the things to lie about, you could have lied about the walking too. Sounds boring.” — Sachi Kol (48:34)

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Key Segment Timestamps

• 00:07 — Opening: Introducing skepticism about inspirational memoirs
• 04:00 — Gillian Anderson’s movie premieres; the scandal begins
• 11:16 — The first hints of Sally’s financial misdeeds emerge
• 19:18 — The failed publishing company and house raffle scheme
• 24:15 — Decision to walk the Salt Path
• 29:55 — Writing and publishing the memoir
• 34:15 — Life after the book’s success and Bill’s suspicions
• 37:34 — Journalist Chloe Hajimathe begins her investigation
• 41:34 — Key revelations: French property and medical exaggerations
• 47:02 — Sally’s denials, publisher reaction, and family allegations
• 49:20 — Hosts reflect on memoirs, truth, and publishing responsibilities

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Tone & Style

• Conversational, incisive, and irreverent, laced with dry humor (“You’d spend less money panhandling.”)
• Deep skepticism about unsourced inspirational stories and the publishing world’s lack of due diligence
• Keen empathy for victims of fraud—including readers seeking inspiration

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Summary

This Scamfluencers episode uses The Salt Path as a lens through which to examine how easily powerful narratives can be manipulated—and monetized—in the influencer age. The hosts meticulously unravel how Sally Walker, masquerading as Raynor Wynn, spun partial truths and outright fabrications into a literary empire, leaving fans, friends, publishers, and sick readers angry and betrayed. The story ultimately raises pressing questions about why—and how—publishing and the culture at large are so susceptible to compelling but unverified stories.

Bottom Line:
Be wary when a story seems too uplifting to be true, and always be ready to ask hard questions—even of the stories that inspire you most. As the hosts put it, sometimes the only thing real is the walk.

Transcript

[Sachi Kol]

Sarah, I know you're a big reader, but have you ever read an inspiring memoir of human perseverance and thought, I don't know if all that actually happened?

[Sarah Hagie]

Um, well, thank you for calling me a big reader. First of all, in public. I am. And yeah, I think I definitely have. And one of them was A Million Little Pieces, famous Oprah's Book Club pick that was debunked. And I remember reading it as a teenager and being like, guess this is how life is. And also go ask Alice.

[Sachi Kol]

That was a seminal one for our

[Sarah Hagie]

age group and not true at all.

[Sachi Kol]

Well, I kind of feel that way anytime anyone talks about, like, climbing up a mountain. Like, you didn't prove it, loser.

[Sarah Hagie]

I agree. I mean, I'll take your word for it, but doesn't sound like you did all that well.

[Sachi Kol]

I ask because today I have a really delicious merger of some of our niche interests. Literary frauds, financial scams, and someone pretending they're more noble than they actually are. It's September 2024, and actress Gillian Anderson is walking the red carpet at the Toronto International Film Festival for the world premiere of her newest movie, the Salt Path. Gillian looks glamorous. Her blonde hair is blown out and her chic black dress is covered in sequins. She's known for playing meticulously put together characters like Dana Scully in the X Files or Margaret Thatcher in the Crown. But in this movie, she's doing something completely different. She's playing a woman who's broke and living in a tent along the coast of Wales. The Salt Path is based on the memoir of a woman named Rainer Wynn. It tells the inspiring true story of the hardships she and her husband faced together. Their lives were upended in 2013 when a bad investment led to them losing their home. Then they were hit with another devastating blow. Raynor's husband, Moth, was diagnosed with a rare terminal brain disease. Overwhelmed with grief, the couple, who were in their early 50s, made a radical decision. They would walk a famous 630 mile trail across England. They camped their way up the coast, using the journey to reconnect with nature and with each other. And incredibly, the walk ended up alleviating many of Moth's symptoms and possibly even prolonging his life expectancy. Raynor's memoir about their experience became an instant bestseller. And now, more than a decade later, it's finally been adapted for the big screen. At the festival, Gillian gushes to the press about her movie husband, Jason Isaacs, and she looks genuinely proud as she tells reporters how honored they feel to portray such a resilient couple on screen. Here's how Gillian describes the story's universal appeal to red carpet news. It speaks to a state that pretty much anybody anywhere can find themselves in. You know, that the injustice of it was so clear from the beginning of the story and so it seems so unfathomable. How could you survive that for any extended period of time? So I think that a lot of people will find a lot of compassion for their journey. Gillian was so moved by the book that she jumped at the chance to play Rayner. To prepare for the role, she grew close to the real life Rayner, Anne Moth. She's amazed by how much their lives have changed. Just over a decade ago, they were homeless and struggling. Now they're minor celebrities in the uk. The Salt Path has become a source of inspiration, especially for people living with terminal diagnosis. Like moths. Gillian hopes the film can do the same. Eight months after its Toronto premiere, the movie is released in the uk. It's a smash hit and reviews are good. It's the kind of rich, moving role that might even generate a words buzz.

[Sarah Hagie]

You know, I always wonder this as someone who's, you know, like reviewed films and gone to festivals. It seems that actors are so drawn to these biopic type roles of struggles because it's like it could be such a slam dunk for Oscar contention.

[Sachi Kol]

Yes, exactly. But a little more than a month later, everything changes. A report published in the observer reveals troubling details about Rainer and Moth's past that throws their entire into question. The reason they lost their home, Moth's illness, even their names. Suddenly, nothing is certain. Gillian is shaken. Not only does this cast a shadow over Rayner and her memoir, it puts the future of the film in jeopardy. The Salt Path still doesn't have a North American distribution deal. Will studios want to back a movie whose source material might be built on lies? Will audiences want to watch? What once felt like a dream role has become a major headache. But while Gillian will ultimately be fine, she's already moved on to a TV Western. The real life couple at the center of this story won't be able to walk away so easily. From Wondery. I'm Sachi Kol. And I'm Sarah Hagie and this is Scampflancers.

[Sarah Hagie]

Come and give me your attention I won't ever learn my lesson Till my speaker.

[Sachi Kol]

In 2018, a woman named Sally Walker published an instant bestseller and became a literary sensation in the uk. She wrote under the pseudonym Rainer Wynne. But Sally wasn't just selling books she was selling hope, the idea that by forging a deep connection to the natural world, anyone could overcome impossible odds. Her story of grit, optimism and survival earned her acclaim and more than $12 million in book sales. The more Sally's star rose, the more people from her past began to recognize her and question the story that made her famous. And as the truth starts to surface, everything about her incredible story comes under scrutiny. Sally convinced the world that she was a victim of unfair circumstances. But the truth is far more complicated. And the fallout proves that an inspiring narrative means nothing when it's built on false hope. This is the Salt Path, a long walk from the truth.

[Sarah Hagie]

Gotcha.

[Sachi Kol]

It's 2001. In the rural countryside in the north of Wales. 40 year old Sally Walker swings open a wooden gate and walks towards her farmhouse. A modest one story building surrounded by thick brush and trees. Sally has long blonde hair, blue eyes and is wearing loose, flowy clothing. When she and her husband moved here a decade ago, the home was barely livable. They had to rebuild walls, install plumbing and piece it together stone by stone, doing everything themselves to save money. And while the ancient house still isn't perfect, like the spot where the roof is caving in, she wouldn't want to live anywhere else. Sally was born in 1962 and grew up on a farm in England. As a kid, she spent most of her time reading and playing in nature. She dreamed of becoming a writer and fantasized about seeing a little penguin logo on the spine of her own book someday. But like many people with literary dream, Sally had to take far less glamorous jobs to pay her bills. These days, she's working as a bookkeeper at a local hotel. She's not particularly passionate about it, but she's grateful to have a job that helps support her family. Sally met her husband Tim in College almost 20 years ago. Back then, they bonded over their shared love of adventure and the outdoors. We have a photo of them hiking in their 20s. Sarah, can you describe it?

[Sarah Hagie]

Yeah, I mean they look really cool. You know, they're young, they're on a very rocky, steep looking mountain I guess. And it's funny because Tim is wearing hiking boots, but he is wearing a blazer and some type of ascot. And Sally looks more like she's ready to hike. But you know what, back then they didn't have gear, they were just wearing whatever. It's so British. But they are like a cool looking couple. Like this could be hipsters.

[Sachi Kol]

Today it looks like they're gonna go to a talking heads show. Yes, On a mountain. Well, after college, they settle down quickly and had two kids who now get to grow up in the countryside just like Sally did. But today, Sally is feeling down as she pushes the farmhouse door open and greets Tim in the kitchen. He's tall, with swept back hair and a short white beard. His face falls when she tells him she's being let go from her bookkeeping job. Even though it wasn't her dream job, losing it is a big stressor. Tim works for a conservation charity called the National Trust, but his income isn't enough to pay their mortgage and support their family. Plus, jobs are hard to come by in such a rural area. But today, Sally is in luck, because Tim happens to know about a job opening. One of his colleagues, Ross Hemmings, has the perfect opportunity for Sally. Her husband runs a small business and his bookkeeper is retiring. To Sally, it feels like everything is falling back into place. She gratefully accepts the job. Right now, Sally's life is the epitome of cozy. She's got a loving family, her dream farmhouse and a life surrounded by nature. But this brush with unemployment might have rattled something deeper. Because before long, Sally will want more security. And to get it, she'll betray the trust of the people who tried to help her. It's 2008 in North Wales, about seven years after Sally started her new bookkeeping job. Roz Hemmings, the woman who got her this gig, is leafing through bank statements, squinting as she skims the numbers. Roz is in her late 50s and has short, feathery blonde hair, blue eyes and wire rimmed glasses. Her husband, Martin groans beside her in frustration. Martin runs a small real estate agency and property surveying business and he is constantly working. He's extremely devoted to his business, but he's not a micromanager. Martin trusts his employees and treats them like family, which is why he's so distressed that for the last few years, the business has been struggling. The financial issue started a few years ago, just after Sally was hired. At first, Roz didn't think much of it. Running a small business is hard and she assumes her husband is just bad at invoicing. But Martin is reaching a breaking point. Even though he's working harder than ever, his money woes just keep mounting. He's convinced something is wrong, so he brought the books home and Roz agreed to help him look through them. Soon, Martin's eyes grow wide. He found something. Money that Sally was supposed to deposit into the company bank account is missing. Over the last few months, around £9,000 just disappeared.

[Sarah Hagie]

You know, bookkeepers in our stories play one of two roles where they are the ones uncovering financial scam. And they do it pretty quickly because they're good at their jobs, or they see the holes and take advantage of a situation where they can maybe make a lot of money. And I wonder where this one is going.

[Sachi Kol]

Okay, well, the show is called Scam Flouncers. Well, Martin is hurt by Sally's seeming theft, but Roz is livid. She recommended Sally and put her trust in her. The couple files a police report and then they confront Sally directly. A few days later, she shows up at their house with a check for the amount that she's stolen. Here's how Roz later describes this interaction to the observer. Sally appeared at my house holding a check and she said it was for several thousand. And she said, this is all the money we have. And I've had to sell some of my mother's things to raise this money.

[Sarah Hagie]

You know, if this is what happened, I do think it's very generous for someone to give the alleged thief a chance to repay them. And it's just so insane to me that someone could then kind of flip it around and be indignant and then turn themselves into the victim of the situation they created.

[Sachi Kol]

Yes, exactly. This isn't moving, Ra's, she says. Sally just keeps talking about how hard it is for her to cough up the money without acknowledging that she's not the victim here. So Roz and Martin do the only thing they can. They go back through years of financial records to see if anything else is missing. Roz later calls this the quote, most soul destroying thing I've ever done. They discover falsified invoices and forged checks and allege that in total, Sally had pocketed around £64,000. It's worth noting that Sally has since disputed many of the claims against her. The ordeal takes a big emotional toll on Martin. He's always been open and trusting, but this experience has destroyed his faith in others. Roz and Martin are shaken by the new revelations. And this time, Sally's going to have to take drastic measures to make things right. It's 2008. A few weeks after Sally's boss confronted her about the missing money. Things at the farmhouse are finally starting to settle down again. But that won't last long. As she puts the kettle on in the kitchen, she hears a knock at the front door. Sally opens it to find the police on her doorstep and she starts panicking as she realizes what likely happened. The Hemings went back through all of their books. The police tell Sally that she's under arrest and she agrees to go to the station for questioning. At the station, Sally is cooperative. We don't know what exactly she tells investigators, but she might have told them that she stole. Because times have been tough. The 2008 financial crisis has added immense financial pressure for everyone. Her kids are going off to university, plus she and Tim have spent the last year struggling with a new challenge. Tim has severe and debilitating nerve pain in his upper body. Despite endless doctor visits, they haven't found a cause or a cure. The interviewing officers sigh. While they're sympathetic to Sally's struggles, stealing is still a crime. Plus, the money started disappearing well before the 2008 crash. Sally is sent home for the night and agrees to report back to the police station the next morning. Sally knows she's in trouble. She's worried about what will happen if she goes back. So instead, she flees to London. Tim has a rich, distant relative there and Sally is convinced that he might be able to help. She shows up on the relative's doorstep and explains the situation. She says she's facing criminal prosecution for stealing from her employer and she's worried about going to prison. She says she made a mistake trying to support her family and asks for help. To Sally's relief, he agrees. He offers her enough to repay her employer, plus whatever she needs to hire a good lawyer who can help settle the matter out of court. In total, he lends her £100,000. It's possible that he's doing all of this out of kindness, but it also seems like he's trying to make a buck because the terms are steep. The loan comes with an annual interest rate of 18%.

[Sarah Hagie]

That is honestly really crazy and personally, I believe a bit unfair. Like, if you want to get any money back, you have to set the terms to be realistic.

[Sachi Kol]

In my opinion, this is a bad deal. Yeah, for everybody. Well, Sally doesn't know how she'll pay him back, but she's desperate, so she agrees to his terms. Maybe staying out of prison feels like it's worth any future cost. And we don't know exactly what Tim thinks about all of this. We can only guess that back at home and dealing with chronic pain, he likely supports whatever Sally needs to do to stay out of jail. Sally's new lawyer immediately calls her former boss, Martin Hemings, with a proposal. Sally will repay everything immediately. All Martin has to do is sign a document agreeing not to pursue legal action against Sally, as well as an NDA that's pretty smart.

[Sarah Hagie]

I think that's a smart thing to do if you get in trouble. And you know what? Rich people do it all the freaking time. It's about time a regular person does that, you know?

[Sachi Kol]

Yeah, we need more citizen NDAs. I've been saying this.

[Sarah Hagie]

I agree. I mean, if you pay it all back, I don't know in some respect why it should hang over you forever, you know?

[Sachi Kol]

Exactly. They're betting that Martin just wants this nightmare to be over. And they're right. Sally is flooded with relief when he signs the papers. For now, this matter has been swept under the rug or kicked down the road, because soon enough, that loan will come due. And eventually, Sally will need a new plan to pay what she owes. But next time, she won't just dodge accountability. She'll launch her strangest scam yet. It's 2012. Four years after Sally borrowed the money that kept her out of prison, Sally and Tim are in their farmhouse in Wales, hatching a new plan to pay off their debt because they still haven't paid back the loan and the clock is ticking. Not long after Sally borrowed the money, Tim, Tim's relative in London, had to shut down his company. As part of this process, Sally's debt was transferred to two men he owed money to. And these men wanted Sally to immediately return the £100,000 with interest. By now, she owes roughly £150,000. And when Sally couldn't pay, they took her to court. About two months ago, the court reached its conclusion. Sally needs to repay the money as soon as possible. If she doesn't, the bank will repossess the farmhouse that she loves so much.

[Sarah Hagie]

I just don't think that's 100% fair. This is one person. She's not like a corporation. She did something crazy. I don't know, I just think $150,000 is a bit much.

[Sachi Kol]

Yeah, I mean, it's a harsh situation, even though she got herself into it. And now Sally has two choices. Find a staggering sum of money or lose her home. Sally can't imagine life without the farmhouse. She and Tim rebuilt it together and it's where they raised their children. She pictured growing old in that house. And the farmhouse has more than just sentimental value. Lately, it's also been their main source of income. They rent out a barn in the back to travelers. Aside from that, they're trying to survive on the 48 pound weekly tax credit they receive from the government. Sally hasn't been able to find work since settling with the Hemmings and Tim can no longer work at all. His debilitating nerve pain has worsened over the past five years, and despite visits to countless doctors and specialists, there's still no diagnosis. So Sally and Tim hatch a new plan. They decide to launch a publishing company, because indie publishing companies are a famously sound financial model.

[Sarah Hagie]

Yeah, you know, I was being very generous with these people up until this point.

[Sachi Kol]

Yeah.

[Sarah Hagie]

Okay, so people who start publishing companies come from generational wealth and it's their hobby. You don't start one to make money in any. This is the worst possible idea. They may as well be panhandling.

[Sachi Kol]

You'd spend less money that way.

[Sarah Hagie]

Yes.

[Sachi Kol]

Well, they call the imprint Gangani Publishing, and their first book is a novel by an unknown Welsh writer, reportedly Sally herself, writing under a pen name. In the book, a young couple moves to a farmhouse in Wales and the protagonist gets a job with a property surveyor and estate agent. She steals from them, is arrested, flees to London and borrows money to pay them back. But as a part of the bargain, she has to give up her house. But it's okay because the protagonist has learned that home is not a physical place. It's her husband, Sarah. Does this sound familiar?

[Sarah Hagie]

It does sound pretty familiar. Hey, listen, all great writers draw inspiration from real life events.

[Sachi Kol]

That's true. We should know. Well, the novel is released in August of 2012, and Sally and Tim add a bold marketing ploy. For every copy purchased, readers will be entered in a lottery to win their house. The very farmhouse Sally and Tim are currently living in and which the bank is planning to repossess. Oh, and they still have a 230,000 pound mortgage on it too. We actually have screenshots of how they advertise this on their official website. Here, take a look.

[Sarah Hagie]

So this is kind of an old looking website. Makes sense. This was the past. And, you know, I can't really tell what the background is. It's like kind of gray and there's three big images. One is when this ancient farmhouse in the Gangani Publishing free prize draw. Then there's another thing to click on that says, win this stunning property. Click here for details. This is the kind of thing you see when you're about to get, like before a phishing scam, before you get hacked, before you get a big virus on your computer.

[Sachi Kol]

Yeah, the website also says that only 250,000 copies will be released. So hurry, they're selling fast.

[Sarah Hagie]

Oh, God.

[Sachi Kol]

It's unclear what exactly their thinking was. Maybe they never actually intended to name a winner. Maybe they wanted to offload the house and its problems onto someone else. Or maybe they thought they'd just make so much money from this promotion that they could afford to upgrade to a bigger, nicer home. Either way, the book only has two reviews on Goodreads, so they probably didn't get many entries. This ends up being the only book Gangani ever publishes, and it quietly disappears afterwards. No raffle winner is ever announced. It seems like the Walkers are still in the red once again. Sally's dream of keeping her home, of becoming a writer, collapses. And when the consequences finally catch up to her, the Walkers will be left with no choice but to fly the coop.

[Sarah Hagie]

I feel like a legend.

[Sachi Kol]

It's the summer of 2013, about a year after Sally and Tim published the novel they hoped would save them. The couple is sitting in their farmhouse packing all their belongings into boxes. It's been a hard few weeks. Their home is officially getting repossessed and Tim finally got a diagnosis for his worsening health problems. He's been diagnosed with corticobasal degeneration, or cbd. It's a rare condition related to Parkinson's that causes problems with memory, movement and mobility. On average, people live six to eight years after their first symptoms appear. And Tim's symptoms started six years ago. On good days, he's in pain, but on bad days he can't even move his limbs. The good news is that the onset has been slow, so Tim might have a few more years left. But between losing their home and getting a terminal diagnosis, Sally has never been lower. And it's made worse by the fact that they have nowhere to go. They're not able to rent an apartment, their credit ratings are horrible, and landlords aren't interested in renting to people who've had their home repossessed. Both of their children are now in university and living on student budgets, so they aren't in a position to help either. As she packs up books, Sally notices one that she loved in her 20s. It's called 500 Mile Walkies and it's about a man who walked the southwest coast path with his dog. The path has existed since the 70s. It's England's longest trail, stretching 630 miles across the British coast. The path attracts a lot of tourists, although most people only take on small sections at a time. Here's how Sally describes this moment years later to the BBC. I spotted a book in a packing

[Sarah Hagie]

case that someone had written about walking the southwest coastal path. And just in that moment, it seemed as if that book offered us a way forward.

[Sachi Kol]

Seeing the book inspire Sally. She turns to Tim, who's sitting on the floor next to her, and suggests a crazy idea to distract them from their current situation. What if we just walked?

[Sarah Hagie]

I can see how that's appealing in this type of situation where it's kind of like nothing to lose here. Let's just see what would happen if we decided to take on this feat. I mean, it's a bit shocking only because of his health condition, but I understand the need to connect with nature during a rough time.

[Sachi Kol]

Yeah. And remember, the couple initially fell in love through their joint passion for hiking and walking. Of course, that was when they were much younger. They're in their 50s now, and Tim's health is a concern. He's in constant pain, even with regular physical therapy. But once the idea is in Sally's head, she has a hard time shaking it. They have nowhere else to go and nothing to do. So why not see if reconnecting with nature helps? After all, they're literally the walkers, and it would be a shame not to live up to their name. So in early August, they set out carrying only the essentials. Backpacks, clothing, hiking gear and the tent that they'll sleep in. They pack up their savings, 115 pounds in cash and a bank card so that they can withdraw the £48 a week they receive from the government. As they make their way to the start of the trail, they look out at the gorgeous coastal views and the long path that stretches ahead. They hoist their backpacks onto their shoulders. It's time to walk. Sally and Tim walk for months, covering around 300 miles of ground. Despite their hardships, this is a healing and even spiritual journey. And against all odds, Tim's condition improves despite the fact that he's not seeing doctors or receiving traditional treatment. But as winter approaches, the sun starts setting earlier and the weather worsens. It becomes too difficult for Tim to be out in the cold. So the couple takes a break and stays in a friend's shed. And as soon as they stop walking, Tim's condition worsens. He knows he doesn't have long to live, but he feels great so long as he's walking. Here's how Sally describes it in an interview with the Edinburgh Book Festival. That walk had really changed his health in ways that we thought were just

[Sarah Hagie]

impossible because we'd been told it was

[Sachi Kol]

just a one way downhill street. There was no way back.

[Sarah Hagie]

You know, I do believe that people can recover from illness in ways that doctors can't predict and that there can be some type of miracles. But if this happened, it is like one of the craziest recoveries of any person.

[Sachi Kol]

Yeah, it would be like.

[Sarah Hagie]

It's just. It's so crazy.

[Sachi Kol]

Yeah. When spring comes, the walkers set back down the beautiful sloping coastal path. And on a cool day in August 2014, about a year after they first set out, Sally and Tim sit on a bench and enjoy the view. They can't believe how far they've come. They've walked more than 600 miles. After just one more day of walking, they'll finish the entire path. It's an emotional day for both of them. Tim is amazed by how much better he's doing health wise. But it's bittersweet too, because they're not sure what comes next. Just then, a woman sees them sitting with their rucksacks and asks where they're headed. They get to talking and Sally explains her circumstances. Unlike some people they've met, this woman doesn't recoil when she learns they're homeless. Instead, she's sympathetic and kind. She mentions that she has a flat nearby. The current tenants are about to move out, so Sally and Tim could rent it if they want. It feels like fate, huh?

[Sarah Hagie]

That's honestly really kind. And regardless of what is actually maybe happening to these people, I think it's a kindness they probably needed.

[Sachi Kol]

Yeah, it is really nice. And at long last, the couple is full of hope again with a place to live. Tim is so full of renewed energy, he even decides to return to university to study horticulture. He may not live long enough to finish his degree or pay off his student loans, but Sally supports him wholeheartedly. If her husband's dying dream is to get another degree, she's on board. A year after setting out on their long hike, Sally and Tim have a new place to live and a renewed lease on life. And soon, Sally will start sharing their story. But while their walk truly is a story of resilience, she wants to be a sympathetic narrator. And that means coming up with a new explanation for how they got here in the first place. It's the spring of 2017, and Sally is sitting at her computer in the apartment she and Tim moved into at the end of their long walk three years ago. It's a little flat in a chapel, and they've been happy here. Sally's been spending her days writing, and Tim has been going to school. But now that they're no longer walking, Tim's condition is on a downturn. Worst of all, his memory is starting to fail, and he worries he soon won't Be able to remember the best parts of his life. With Sally and their kids during their year of walking, Sally took notes to look back on as a gift to Tim. She typed them up and turned them into a full length book, a tool to help him remember that chapter of their lives. But recently, their daughter read the book and insisted Sally should try to publish it. She thinks readers could get a lot out of their journey. It's a possibility that excites Sally. She's always dreamed of being a writer and now she has a story to tell.

[Sarah Hagie]

Ooh, this does not sit well with me. If I were to assume all of this is completely true. It just seems so exploitative of something they don't fully understand. In a way.

[Sachi Kol]

Yeah, it seems a little weird, doesn't it?

[Sarah Hagie]

It's weird. It's icky. It's not right.

[Sachi Kol]

Well, instead of using her real name, Sally gives herself a Rainer Wynn. Rainer is a family name she's always loved and Winn is her maiden name. As for Timothy, she shortens his name to Moth, which I guess is one alternative to Tim. And though we don't know why she used fake names, it could be to shield her identity from people who know the whole story, like Roz Hemmings and I. Oop. Sally struggles to sell the book, which was then titled Lightly Salted Blackberries. But she finally gets a lucky break when an editor at the Big Issue, a UK newspaper, agrees to publish an excerpt. It's a moving chapter about her and Tim's experience with homelessness and how people treated them during their walk. And as soon as it's published, it's a hit. Sally gets countless emails from readers who love the story and a prominent literary agent in London who wants to represent her. Soon they're sending out feelers to major publishers. In the book, Rayner is the sympathetic lead of a compelling, heart wrenching story. She frames herself and Tim as victims of circumstances. She says they lost their house due to a business deal gone wrong with an old friend who screwed them over.

[Sarah Hagie]

All right, well you see here, this is exactly why all of it is so strange. It's so unnecessary to change the story about how they lost their home. Like all this could have happened and they lost their home in bad circumstances and it would have just made for a more complicated, nuanced story, in my opinion.

[Sachi Kol]

Yeah, that's exactly it. Sally's story was pretty compelling and meaningful. Without these edits, the Salt Path could have been a story about the way debt can take over your life, reckoning with past actions and the struggles of losing your home as your loved one falls ill. But Sally insists on being the perfect protagonist. As a little girl, Sally always dreamed of having a book published by Penguin. And soon that dream will be realized. Only it's not quite her name and not quite her story. And the bigger her book's audience, the more people from her past will start to recognize her. It's 2018, and Bill Cole is perusing a bookshelf when the illustrated cover for a new memoir, the Salt Path, catches his eye. Bill is in his early 50s, with gray flecked hair and a white beard. As he reads the story of Rainer and Moth, he's deeply moved. Their story feels painfully familiar. Bill has also been betrayed by a close friend and his wife has been diagnosed with cancer. Bill isn't the only one who connects with the story. The Salt Path is an immediate hit. It spent 102 weeks on the Sunday Times bestseller list and will go on to sell more than 2 million copies all over the world. It's eventually shortlisted for literary awards and translated into 14 languages. But Bill feels a particular pull towards Rainer and Moth. A few years earlier, he bought a farm in Cornwall, hoping to one day restore it to its wild natural state. With his wife's illness, though, they've had to stay near the city and her doctors. Now, reading the Salt Path, he wonders if he's found the right people to help bring his dream to life. So Bill reaches out to Raynor on Twitter and sends a message. Would she and Moth like to live on his farm, help fix up the home and care for the land? Rainer accepts and she and Moth move in. Bill is happy to help. Over the next couple of years, he stays in touch with the couple as they go on more walks, this time in Iceland and the Scottish Highlands. Rainer publishes another memoir, the Wild Silence, about the couple's rocky return to normal life after walking the trail and the death of her mother. Bill appears in the book as a Citi banker whose generosity is, quote, changes everything. This book also becomes a bestseller. There are some things Bill wishes were happening on the farm, like tending to the orchards or making cider. But he's happy knowing he's helping one of England's most famous literary couples.

[Sarah Hagie]

Oh, my God, this is so classic. Like, two people with clout, like someone who wants to be a part of something, being like, come on, live here, I'll help you out, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And them obviously not really doing anything on the farm like they're supposed to, because you know what? At worst, they are Big liars. And at best, they are huge fame whores.

[Sachi Kol]

Yes, exactly. But then, in October 2021, Bill makes one of his frequent trips out to the farm, and Moth gives him devastating news. He says doctors have told him his condition is deteriorating fast. Moth says he's been given until the end of the year. Bill is devastated. But as the months pass, Moth seems to be doing okay. He's alive for the release of Raynor's third book, another memoir called landlines, in September 2022. But when Bill reads the book, he's confused. In it, Rainer writes about returning home from their Highland hike and getting a miraculous scan of Moth's brain, showing incredible improvement. But that's right around the time Moth told Bill he only had weeks to live. Not only do the stories seem to contradict, Bill is hurt that his friends wouldn't share such great medical news with him. He texts Raynor, but she never addresses the confusion around Moth's medical condition. Then, a few weeks later, a celebrity chef arrives at the farm to film a special featuring Raynor and Moth showing off their cider making process, even though they haven't been producing any cider that Bill can sell. Not long after that, the couple suddenly move out with one more year left on their lease. After that, Bill hardly hears from them.

[Sarah Hagie]

Oh, my God. Of course. I feel like these people have a lot of opportunities to make things right. You know what I mean? Where it's like, now you're dealing with some real generosity of someone who can actually really help you, and you're still doing this. You're still just being so disappointing.

[Sachi Kol]

Well, Bill later tells the observer that he feels gaslit by the couple. He's left questioning how well he ever really knew two people he considered friends. And Bill isn't the only one starting to ask questions about Rainer and Moth's story. Soon, other people from their past will step forward, ready to separate fact from fiction. It's 2025, and journalist Chloe Hajimathe is sitting in her office. She has a blunt bob and a gray streak with dark lipstick. And she's just received an interesting tip about celebrated memoirist Rainer Wynn. The source claims that Rainer's now famous story doesn't add up. At first, Chloe thinks this accusation might be rooted in jealousy. After all, the Salt Path has been a major success. There's renewed media attention now because the book is being adapted into a movie starring Gillian Anderson and Jason Isaacs as the Wins. Rayner is once again doing constant press tours and interviews, sometimes with the movie's actors. But as soon as Khloe starts digging, the story begins to unravel. We don't know who tipped Chloe off, but it's clear they were onto something. And their lead brings Chloe to call someone she hopes can help. A widow in her 60s named Roz Hemmings.

[Sarah Hagie]

Oh, my God. You just know Roz has been waiting for this call.

[Sachi Kol]

Yeah, she has been sitting by the phone waiting for her time.

[Sarah Hagie]

I do feel like this is a very relatable experience where you know someone needs to get got and you're like, someone else is going to figure it out and they're going to do it.

[Sachi Kol]

Okay, well, when Roz answers the phone, Chloe introduces herself as a journalist for the Observer. And before Chloe can explain why she's calling, Roz cuts her off. She asks if this is about Sally Walker and says that she's been waiting for this call for years. The truth about Sally has been an open secret in her community for a long time, but Roz says she had no idea how to go about contacting journalists or finding news sources that would care. As Roz shares her side of the story, Chloe's jaw drops. There's clearly far more to the story than Sally or Rainer wrote in her books. And the more people Chloe talks to, the more shocking Sally's account becomes. Because the story that led to an international bestseller and flashy new movie appears to be based on a series of mischaracterizations, exaggerations, and outright lies. Soon, many devoted Saltpath fans will learn Rainer Wynn's true name and begin questioning every detail of the story that made her famous. I feel like a legend. It's May 2025, and celebrities are walking the red carpet to celebrate the film version of the Salt Path, which is being released across the UK and several other countries alongside stars Gillian Anderson and Jason Isaacs. The real life couple who inspired the movie posed for photos, holding hands and smiling at the camera. Rainer and Moth themselves. The film is a hit. Reportedly, it's made on a budget of less than $10 million, and it could quickly grosses over 20 million. Audiences embrace it as an inspiring true tale of resilience. Here's a clip from the trailer. We lost everything. Our home, our livelihood. Maybe we should just follow a line around the coast.

[Sarah Hagie]

We just walk.

[Sachi Kol]

You ready? Can't move my arms and my legs. But apart from that, good to go.

[Sarah Hagie]

Yeah. Again, regardless of the origins and what is and isn't true here, this is just total Oscar bait. Two beloved actors going through some crazy physical traumas. The resilience of humans like this is. Audiences love this. Me as an exec. Greenlit.

[Sachi Kol]

Yeah, it's a little schlocky. Well, Chloe watches all of this with a knot in her stomach because she knows not all of it is true. And even though Sally smiles confidently at flashing cameras, she likely knows the heartwarming story that got her here is about to come undone. Because two months ago, Khloe reached out to Sally to inform her about the investigation and to share what she'd uncovered. Sally has repeatedly refused to engage with Chloe or her colleagues, but there's little doubt that she knows what's coming. Finally, on July 5, less than two months after the movie is released, Khloe hits publish on her expose on the Observer's website. The article reveals the entire dirty truth about what led the walkers to lose their home, the years of dishonesty, the unpaid debt, and even the fake farmhouse giveaway from their strange publishing venture. It also states that while the couple claimed to be homeless, they had actually purchased a property in France back in 2007, right before Roz Hemmings confronted Sally about her alleged deception. The property included an old house that was falling apart and virtually uninhabitable. But the walkers were not forced to camp in the wild. They had actually stayed on the property in a caravan a few times before ever losing their farmhouse.

[Sarah Hagie]

Yeah, again, I'm not saying it was ideal circumstances to live in, and losing your home is hard no matter what, but the truth is, yes, they had property.

[Sachi Kol]

Yeah, the matter of their housing was definitely dishonest. But perhaps most shocking of all, the reporting calls the emotional core of the salt path into question. Tim's illness. Rainer has long claimed that her husband had suffered from CBD since around 2007. This in itself is extraordinary because the life expectancy for CBD is usually around six to eight years. For someone to live with the condition for 18 years with seemingly no visible symptoms while hiking and attending red carpet premieres is virtually unheard of. And the idea that walking or exercise could reverse the disease is highly unlikely. Chloe interviews neurologists and other experts and they agree. While Tim does appear to have been diagnosed with cbd, it seems to have been an atypical and unusually mild case. The revelations hit particularly hard for others living with cbd, many of whom had turned to the salt path as a source of hope. A CBD charity that Moth and Raynor had been working with immediately cut ties with the couple.

[Sarah Hagie]

See, that is exactly what I assumed would piss me off the most about this story is that, again, there are people with this really difficult illness, with a short life expectancy and giving people false hope is so wrong. People want to grab onto whatever they can, and I just. Yeah, it really breaks my heart that they were duped.

[Sachi Kol]

Yeah. And they aren't the only ones impacted. An Australian couple tells Chloe that they encountered Sally and Tim while walking the coastal trail, and their shared meal in a cafe was included in the Salt Path. There's just one problem. The Australians documented that meeting on their blog in 2015, about two years after Sally claims it occurred in her book. And then Bill opens up to Chloe about getting confusing medical updates on Tim while the couple was living on his farm. As these new details surface, many of Sally's fans begin to feel less inspired and more like they've been deceived. Seven years after the Salt Path was first published to widespread acclaim, Rainer Wynn's story collapses under scrutiny. Chloe's reporting spreads like wildfire as it gets picked up by newspapers across the UK and media outlets around the world. Rainer is no longer Rainer. She's just Sally again. And now she faces a choice. Come clean or double down. In July 2025, a few days after Khloe's article is published, Sally posts a lengthy response on her website. The response, which is almost as long as the expose itself, calls the article, quote, grotesquely unfair and highly misleading. Sally does vaguely acknowledge the 64,000 pounds that disappeared from her former workplace, saying it was a, quote, pressured time and that mistakes were made. She also addresses the failed house raffle, claiming that she refunded the small number of participants before it gained traction. Sally doubles down on her husband's illness, posting photos of medical records and letters from doctors confirming Tim's diagnosis. But these records actually seem to align with Chloe's reporting. In one letter from 2015, a doctor wrote that Tim's symptoms, quote, most closely resembled the corticobasal syndrome, though he is impacted very mildly and emphasizes that his condition is not typical of a usual CBD diagnosis. None of this nuance is reflected in the Salt Path or the books that followed, which present Moth as terminally ill, with symptoms dramatically improved by walking. In the wake of the allegations, Penguin announces it's delaying the release of Sally's newest book, yet another memoir about her and Tim taking a long walk.

[Sarah Hagie]

How many books about walking can you be writing? Like, at a certain point, you're gonna need to sit down?

[Sachi Kol]

Yeah, I mean, just. I guess they got nothing else to do but Sarah. Just as we were preparing to record this episode, Khloe dropped another bombshell. In December 2025, she reports that members of Sally and Tim's families allege the couple has been lying about nearly everything Sally's sister showed Chloe. Letters said to be written by Sally herself. And in them, Sally appears to admit to stealing more than £100,000 from her employers, Tim's parents, and even her own mother. The letters also claim that stealing money became an addiction for Sally and that she begged her family not to go to the authorities. At the time, they complied, but now the family claims they just want the truth to be known. Sally posted a strenuous denial of these accusations on her website, writing, quote, I did not steal from family, as others can confirm, nor have I confessed the to doing so, and I did not write the letter suggesting I did. Relatives also questioned the severity of Tim's illness. Can you read what one relative told Chloe about it?

[Sarah Hagie]

Yes. This family member said, we never worried. Let's put it like that. Oof, that is rough. Even though this is all uncovered, I'm just kind of like, how did it get to this point? How does this happen?

[Sachi Kol]

Yeah. I mean, they just really kept digging a hole.

[Sarah Hagie]

Yeah.

[Sachi Kol]

In her response, Sally says that Tim's diagnosis, quote, is a fact. And in her previous statement, she said questioning his illness is, quote, utterly vile, unfair and false. Khloe also worked with Sky TV on a documentary called the Salt Path Scandal, which aired the day after her latest expose. Today, Tim still seems to be in relatively good health, and thanks to her literary success, Sally is doing very well. She's made an estimated $12.8 million in book sales. As more people from their former life come forward to raise doubts about the Salt Path. She and Tim have been staying out of the public eye. Chloe's reporting has prompted broader questions about the lack of due diligence in book publishing that allowed Sally's story to spread so widely unchecked. The message at the heart of the story, all path, that you can overcome anything, even homelessness or a terminal illness through togetherness and a connection with the natural world proved irresistible to publishers and readers alike. Sally gave desperate people something to believe in. And who knows, maybe after this controversy dies down, she'll try to walk it off, spinning the whole thing into yet another book. Have you ever seen someone who is able to spin so many books out of one single physical activity?

[Sarah Hagie]

No. Or even just one story, like, you know, it's not like there were added layers here. It pretty much is what it is by her own admission, Right?

[Sachi Kol]

Yeah. I mean, I also think what I'm so obsessed with when it comes to this story is that everything was mostly fraudulent with the exception of the actual walking. Like, of all the things to lie about, you could have lied about the walking too. Sounds boring. Yeah.

[Sarah Hagie]

I mean, here's the thing that kind of gets me about this, and I feel like we've seen it before with, like, the art forgery people and some people who've done, you know, some type of forgery with writing or imitating someone is that, like, clearly she is a gifted writer. She has something that people don't have, which is being able to write a compelling book regardless of whether or not it's real. It's so interesting when something like this is also tied up in this need to kind of be a victim.

[Sachi Kol]

Yeah. I guess the only part of this that really surprises me is that the frauds seem to start kind of late in their life. Usually when people lie like this so consistently. Allegedly, allegedly lie. It starts a lot earlier.

[Sarah Hagie]

Yeah. I think, you know, if what her family is saying is correct, that these people have stolen money. Again, if that is true. I think we see this with a lot of people we cover where there's this level of delusion with how much smarter they are than everyone else. Like, if you can kind of get away with it with the people closest to you, then you'll know how to spin a web for others who don't even know those details. I guess I'm just wondering, like, why didn't she just write this as fiction?

[Sachi Kol]

This is the thing. These books maybe don't necessarily work in fiction because they only work if you care that somebody did it. Like, it has to be true, otherwise it's valueless. That's why this book doesn't work. If they lied, it's why A Million Little Pieces didn't work. If he lied, it's why, you know, like, they only connect with people because they're true. The most evil thing they did was telling people who are chronically ill that if you go for a little walk, you too can be pain free.

[Sarah Hagie]

Yeah.

[Sachi Kol]

And that is a cruelty beyond a financial scam.

[Sarah Hagie]

Yeah. I do think there is an element here that kind of feels similar to cancer scammers or people who scam with regards to illness is that there's kind of a pit that needs. There's just, like, nothing that will fill them up in any way.

[Sachi Kol]

Yeah.

[Sarah Hagie]

It just is like a need that goes beyond recognition and money and everything. Because, again, like, you made more money than anyone does writing books. It's so illogical that there's just an element of this that you can only understand if you're someone who is really into, like, Munchausens by Proxy. I also think there is something here with. As you mentioned, it started conversations about what publishers should be looking at when it comes to fact checking memoirs and Stories of Hope and everything. Cause this isn't uncommon.

[Sachi Kol]

Yeah.

[Sarah Hagie]

If something seems too good to be true, don't hold onto the social contract of feeling bad that you're questioning a sick person. If someone's being sincere, they'll understand that they gotta dig and make sure this is correct. You know what I mean?

[Sachi Kol]

Yeah. There's a sensitivity to fact checking memoir. A lot of people don't do it. They just trust the writer. And so of course you're gonna have stuff like this happen periodically. I mean, like, how many literary scams have we covered already in this show?

[Sarah Hagie]

Mm. Like many of these stories, if one person had just asked a few simple questions, especially as we see how easily this unraveled with Chloe the journalist, a lot of this could have been avoided. I just couldn't imagine being a publisher and, like, having these dollar signs in my eyes because I see this old couple that does all this amazing stuff against all odds. Like, you don't want to question that. You know, like, there's no motivation to question that.

[Sachi Kol]

I wouldn't have asked too many questions either. I guess it's just walking. How evil could it be?

[Sarah Hagie]

Yeah, it's like, oh, no, he's sick. Maybe he's not that sick. But the walking sure is great.

[Sachi Kol]

Well, maybe Gillian can go full circle and play Chloe in a movie about how she takes them down. Cause what a waste before wide release.

[Sarah Hagie]

Maybe they should just re edit it like they do when someone drops out of a movie or dies where there's like a whole Chloe subplot.

[Sachi Kol]

Yeah.

[Sarah Hagie]

And they just kind of fit it into the story.

[Sachi Kol]

You know Paul Walker.

[Sarah Hagie]

Yeah, exactly.

[Sachi Kol]

Who should play Chloe?

[Sarah Hagie]

Well, she seems to be a normal woman of normal age, so maybe some 20 year old.

[Sachi Kol]

Yeah. Ooh, what if she's like 21 and sleeps with all her sources?

[Sarah Hagie]

Yeah. Yeah, that'd be great.

[Sachi Kol]

That's what happens in all the movies I see about journalists.

[Sarah Hagie]

So awesome.

[Sachi Kol]

Can't wait to see it with you. This is the salt. A long walk from the truth. I'm Sachi Kol.

[Sarah Hagie]

And I'm Sarah Hagie. If you have a tip for us on a story that you think we should cover, please email [e-mail] we use many sources in our research. A few that were particularly helpful were reporting by Chloe Hajimothay for the observer and articles from the BBC and the Garden.

[Sachi Kol]

Gabrielle Drolet wrote this episode. Additional writing by us Sachi Cole and Sarah Hadke. Olivia Briley is our story editor. Fact checking by Kalina Newman. Sound design by James Morgan. Additional audio assistance provided by Augustine Lim. Our music supervisor is Scott Velasquez for Freeze on Sync. Our managing producer is Desi Blaylock, Jeanine Cornello and Stephanie Jens, our development producers. Our associate producer is Charlotte Miller. Our senior producers are Sarah Ennie and Ginny Bloom. Our executive producers are Jenny Lauer, Beckman and Marshall Louie. For Wondry.