Yolanda Saldívar: Fan Fatale

Summary

Scamfluencers: Yolanda Saldívar - Fan Fatale

Published on November 4, 2024 by Wondery

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Introduction

In the gripping episode titled "Yolanda Saldívar: Fan Fatale," Wondery's Scamfluencers delves deep into the tragic story of how Yolanda Saldívar manipulated her way into the inner circle of the beloved Tejano music star, Selena Quintanilla, ultimately leading to Selena's untimely death. Hosted by Sarah Hagi and Saatchi Cole, the episode meticulously unpacks the layers of deception, trust, and betrayal that defined this infamous relationship.

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Background: Selena Quintanilla and Yolanda Saldívar

Selena Quintanilla, a rising star in the Tejano music scene, was not just a performer but also a savvy businesswoman with dreams of expanding her empire beyond music. Yolanda Saldívar, on the other hand, was an ambitious young woman from a modest background, determined to climb the social and economic ladder.

Notable Quote:

"Yolanda is determined to make it beyond her working-class background, and it seems like she's willing to lie, cheat, and steal to get what she wants."
— Sarah Hagi [09:23]

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Yolanda’s Infiltration into Selena’s Life

Yolanda's journey with Selena began when she took over as president of Selena's fan club. Her role quickly expanded as she managed Selena's boutiques, "Selena Etc.," and became an indispensable member of the family business. Initially, Yolanda was seen as a trusted confidant, helping Selena navigate the complexities of fame and business.

Notable Quote:

"Yolanda has worked her way onto Team Selena. Now she just has to impress one more person, Selena herself."
— Sarah Hagi [16:57]

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The Unraveling: Signs of Deception

Despite her outward appearance of loyalty, Yolanda began siphoning funds from Selena’s ventures. Issues surfaced when models weren’t paid, and discrepancies in financial records emerged. Yolanda's behavior grew increasingly erratic, culminating in strained relationships within Selena's inner circle.

Notable Quote:

"Yolanda's relationship with Selena seems to have moved from professional super fan to total obsession."
— Sarah Hagi [25:35]

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Confrontation and Murder

The tension reached its peak in March 1995 when Selena confronted Yolanda about the financial misdeeds. The heated exchange escalated, leading Yolanda to pull out a gun and shoot Selena. Despite Selena's immediate efforts to seek help, the injury proved fatal.

Notable Quote:

"Yolanda’s act of violence will turn Yolanda into one of the most hated people in South Texas and will turn Selena from a star into a martyr with a global legacy."
— Sarah Hagi [33:23]

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The Trial and Aftermath

Yolanda faced trial for Selena's murder, where testimonies painted a complex picture of manipulation and betrayal. Despite Yolanda’s attempts to deflect blame onto Selena’s father, Abraham Quintanilla, the jury found her guilty, sentencing her to life in prison with no parole eligibility for 30 years.

Notable Quote:

"The murder tends to overtake the scam and people forget that the root of this was that she was stealing money from this girl who was self-made and who was supporting her family."
— Saatchi Cole [42:21]

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Legacy and Reflections

Nearly three decades later, Selena's legacy remains untarnished, while Yolanda remains a figure of infamy. Recent docuseries and interviews attempt to shed new light on the events, but the narrative largely remains unchanged in the collective memory of fans.

Notable Quote:

"This is the ultimate bad result of a parasocial relationship. And as soon as a boundary was set, that's when she reacted."
— Sarah Hagi [45:25]

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Host Insights and Lessons Learned

Throughout the episode, Saatchi Cole and Sarah Hagi reflect on the dynamics of fandom, trust, and the dangers of blurred personal boundaries. They emphasize the importance of maintaining professional relationships and recognizing the signs of deceit, even from those who appear loyal.

Notable Quote:

"The story is a great lesson for our listeners who have parasocial relationships with us. We're not that interesting. And please don't murder me if you see me."
— Saatchi Cole [46:23]

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Conclusion

"Yolanda Saldívar: Fan Fatale" serves as a profound exploration of how admiration can devolve into obsession and manipulation. By dissecting Yolanda's rise and fall within Selena's life, the episode offers poignant insights into the vulnerabilities that can arise from fame and the importance of safeguarding one's personal and professional boundaries.

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References:

• Commo la Flor by Joe Nick Patowski
• Pamela Koloff's Oral History of Selena's Life and Career for Texas Monthly

Credits:

• Written by: Paula Mejia
• Additional Writing: Saatchi Cole & Sarah Hagi
• Story Editors: Olivia Briley & Eric Thurm
• Sound Design: James Morgan
• Music Supervision: Scott Velasquez
• Executive Producers: Jenny Lauer, Beckman, Marshall Louis, Erin O'Flaherty

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For more stories like this, listen to Scamfluencers on the Wondery App or wherever you get your podcasts.

Transcript

[Sarah Hagi]

Wondery subscribers can listen to Scamfluencers early.

[Saatchi Cole]

And ad free right now.

[Sarah Hagi]

Join Wondery plus in the Wondery app or Apple Podcasts. A heads up to our listeners. This episode includes descriptions of gun violence and mentions of suicide. Please listen with care. Wonder Saatchi. I need to know, have you either been a huge fan girl of someone or have you been in the crosshairs of a fan base? I know the answer to at least one of these questions.

[Saatchi Cole]

Which one do you know the answer for?

[Sarah Hagi]

Crosshairs. You're in the crosshairs of everything.

[Saatchi Cole]

I, unfortunately, have been a fangirl and I have been in the crosshairs. I understand all of this intimately. Yes.

[Sarah Hagi]

Sorry, who were you a fangirl of?

[Saatchi Cole]

It's hard to say. You're only allowed to ask me one question per episode. That's in our contract.

[Sarah Hagi]

I mean, I do think you haven't lived until a bunch of fans of whatever pop star haven't sent you death threats.

[Saatchi Cole]

Yeah, I wrote a profile of a music artist named Redacted and then their. Redacted. Redacted's Redacted. My Redacted.

[Sarah Hagi]

I remember this. Yep, yep. I mean, I do think Stans are kind of scary. They're willing to go to great lengths to be as close as possible to their favorite celebrities. And today I'm gonna tell you about a woman who scammed her way into joining the inner circle of a beloved pop star, resulting in an extremely tragic ending. It's a cold and windy March night in 1997. Thousands of people are braving the chill to crowd outside of a movie theater in Corpus Christi, a city in South Texas. They're gathered for the premiere of a movie about a local hero, the Tejano music singer Selena Quintanilla. Selena's fans are hugely passionate about her, so they're excited about the movie. But there's also appall over the festivities. The fans are grieving because selena died almost two years ago at just 23 years old. A car pulls up to the theater, and when the door opens, everyone starts screaming because the person who gets out is the star of the movie, the actress playing Selena, Jennifer Lopez. Up to this point, J. Lo has worked mostly as a singer and dancer. This movie is her big shot at fame. J. Lo shivers in an embroidered Valentino dress and faux fur shawl. The press crowds around her, and one report asks, what do you hope the movie will give to the audience? Here's what she says. There's a lot of messages in this film, but I think One of the most important ones that I walked away with is just that you never know what's going to happen and you have to live your life accordingly with that thought in mind. And just don't leave things for tomorrow. You just don't know what's going to happen. The next people to walk the red carpet are even bigger superstars to the crowd of Selena Die Hards. They're a well dressed older couple, Marcela and Abraham Quintanilla. They're Selena's parents and they produce the movie. But they must be having mixed emotions. They shake hands with a few people before heading inside. Eventually, the crowd disperses and a group of family, friends, industry professionals and a few lucky residents actually get to watch the movie. By the end of the screening, everyone is in tears. Afterwards, there's a gala at a ritzy banquet hall to celebrate Selena's life. This event is hosted by her older sister Suzette, who decorated the tables with big gold bows and white roses, Selena's favorite flower. Everyone is moved. Their passion and love for Selena is what brought them together. But there's one person missing from the celebration, someone who was a huge part of Selena's story and one of her biggest fans, Yolanda Saldivar. Yolanda was the president of Selena's fan club and even helped manage Selena's fashion business. But she also stole from the Quintanillas money, trust, reputation, and finally, Selena's Life.

[Saatchi Cole]

All right, Audible's best of 2024 picks are here, so discover the year's top audiobooks, podcasts and originals in all your favorite genres.

[Sarah Hagi]

That's right. From memoirs and sci fi to mysteries and thrillers, Audible's curated list in every category is the best way to hear 2024's best in audio Entertainment.

[Saatchi Cole]

Exactly like a stunning new full cast production of George Orwell's 1984. Or heartfelt memoirs like Supreme Court Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson's lovely one.

[Sarah Hagi]

There's also the year's best fiction, like the Women by Kristin Hannah and Percival Everett's brilliantly subversive James. I would love to listen to Sally Rooney's Intermezzo. It just came out this year and I think it was one of my favorite 24 releases.

[Saatchi Cole]

Go to audible.comscampod and discover all the years best waiting for you.

[Sarah Hagi]

Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds. Recently I asked Mint Mobile's legal team if big wireless companies are allowed to raise prices due to inflation.

[Saatchi Cole]

They said yes.

[Sarah Hagi]

And then when I asked if raising prices technically violates those onerous two year contracts. They said. What the are you talking about? You insane Hollywood so to recap, we're cutting the price of mint unlimited from $30 a month to just $15 a month. Give it a [e-mail] Switch $45 upfront payment equivalent to $15 per month New.

[Saatchi Cole]

Customers on first three month plan only taxes and fees extra speeds lower above.

[Sarah Hagi]

40 gigabytes of details from Wondery. I'm Sarah Hagi. And I'm Saatchi Cole and this is Scamfluencers. Come and give me your attention. I won't ever learn my lesson.

[Saatchi Cole]

Turn my speakers to 11.

[Sarah Hagi]

I feel like a Selena Quintanilla was a young star whose meteoric rise attracted both fans and fanatics, including Yolanda Saldivar. Yolanda was manipulative, passionate and predatory. She worked her way into Selena's life and fully took advantage of her. But when she sensed that the power she held over her pop idol was coming to an end, Yolanda made a desperate and deadly decision. This is Yolanda Saldivar, fan fatale. It's a hot May Day in 1979 and 18 year old Yolanda Saldivar is graduating from high school in San Antonio, Texas. Yolanda is short with medium length curly brown hair and she's wearing a cap and gown over her ROTC uniform. She smiles as she walks across the stage. Yolanda is proud. She's planning to be a nurse and she's the first person in her family to go to college. She didn't come from money or status. Yolanda is one of seven kids and her dad works as a head waiter at a local Mexican restaurant. But earning her degree turns out to be harder than she thought. She lives at home and commutes for hours every day for classes. She's also working at a local dermatologist's office to pay down her student debt. For a while, Yolanda manages to balance work and school, but in 1983, her boss fires her. He suspects that she's stolen More than $9,000 from him. Mm.

[Saatchi Cole]

I'm sensing this is like a theme that's gonna come up again and again in this story.

[Sarah Hagi]

You are correct. We don't have proof of the alleged theft or even a ton of details about it, but we do know that after her boss insurance company repaid him for the loss, they came after Yolanda to collect. Eventually, the case is settled out of court and Yolanda is never charged with anything. Yolanda is determined to make it beyond her working class background, and it seems like she's willing to lie, cheat and steal to get what she wants. It's 1991, eight years after Yolanda was fired from the dermatologist's office. Now she's about 30 years old and working as a nurse in San Antonio. It's a bit of a mystery what her financial situation is like at this point, but it seems like things aren't going great. She's either not making enough money to pay off her student loan debt, or she just isn't paying it. In fact, one of the loan corporations gets a court judgment demanding she pay out more than $5,000. She's eventually able to pay off the loan, but she's still struggling. Her biggest escape from her problems is Tejano music. The genre fuses sound from North Mexico and Texas, and it's usually sung in Spanish. Being around Tejano music makes Yolanda feel like a part of something, and it's exciting that it's happening here in San Antonio. She quickly finds a favorite artist, Shelly Larez, a Tejano rising star. Shelly has a strong voice and a distinct style. She wears big hoop earrings, red lipstick, and embroidered jackets on stage. Yolanda knows she isn't the only one obsessed with this music. The scene is growing, and Tejano has the potential to blow up across the country. So when she hears that Shelly doesn't have a fan club yet, she sees an opportunity. Yolanda doesn't know anyone who can introduce her to Shelly, but she doesn't let that stop her. She approaches Shelly's dad, who is also her manager, and asks if she can start a fan club for her.

[Saatchi Cole]

It's so odd how much of the music industry's success used to be predicated on fan clubs. Like this was such a thing in the like 70s and 80s and 90s.

[Sarah Hagi]

Yeah, it's like a true buy in as well, you know, It's a real effort. Yeah, Shelly and her dad are intrigued, but a fan club is a big responsibility. Besides, lots of Tejano acts basically operate as family businesses and they're wary of outsiders. Shelly and her dad tell Yolanda that they'd prefer to have someone in their family running Shelly's fan club. While Yolanda's bummed, she's not deterred. Tejano music is exploding, and Yolanda thinks she's found her way to be a part of it. With so many artists coming onto the scene, it's only a matter of time until she finds a new singer to latch on. A few months later, Yolanda goes to an outdoor concert in San Antonio. It's a Tejano show. But for once, Yolanda didn't want to come. She's only here because her little nieces begged her to take them. Yolanda actually has a serious grudge against the woman performing today because she keeps winning the Tejano Music Awards. And Yolanda probably thinks Shelly deserves those trophies. This woman is, of course, Selena. Selena's got a big voice that carries even without the microphone. Even though she's only 20 years old, her singing has some grit to it. And she's a magnetic performer, shimmying and twirling on stage as she sings. Yolanda is awestruck. Selena's incredible, even better than Shelley. Yolanda's immediately taken with her and wants more. Then she starts wondering, does Selena have a fan club?

[Saatchi Cole]

Yolanda seems like somebody who's just, like, desperate to be a part of something. And she knows that she can't really do it organically, and so this is the only way she can, like, enter this conversation with intimacy.

[Sarah Hagi]

Yeah, that is exactly her vibe. And Yolanda doesn't waste any time. She approaches a band's drummer, Selena's older sister, Suzette. And Suzette agrees to arrange a meeting between Yolanda and Selena's manager, her father, Abraham. At this point, the business is being run out of the Quintanilla family home in Corpus Christi, so we don't know for sure, but that's probably where the meeting happens. Yolanda lays out all of her ideas for the fan club, make exclusive merch for people who join the club, call radio stations to promote Selena's music, and make sure that fans know about all of her shows. It'll be a lot of work, but Yolanda offers to run it all for them. She's a genuine fan, so her excitement will really shine through. Abraham says that he'll think about it, and Yolanda has hope. She believes that Selena is going to be a huge star and that fame will change. The Quintanillas lives forever. And maybe hers, too. After the meeting, Abraham considers Yolanda's offer. He's in his early 50s, wears big glasses, and usually has a stern expression on his face. He's sitting at his home office, the headquarters for his company, Q Productions. He started the business to manage Selena Ilos Dinos, the band that also includes two of his other kids, A.B. and Suzette. Even though Selena is 20, Abraham still has an outsized influence on her life and career. He's been managing her since she was a kid, when he would let her skip school to go to Gigs that would make the family money. The fan club isn't a bad idea. Abraham was a musician himself back in the day. And he understands the importance of PR and fan outreach for a singer like Selena. But he likes to be in control of things. Plus, Yolanda is asking to join a family business. The Quintanillas haven't really let outsiders into the mix up until this point.

[Saatchi Cole]

Selena's story is so sad. Cause it's like she was just never really in control of her life. Like she never really got to have a lot of agency.

[Sarah Hagi]

Yeah, it is one extra tragic layer to all of this. But ultimately, Abraham is realistic. He knows that a fan club would take a lot of work to run. Even though it may be giving up some control. He knows he could use the extra help to push Selena to a new level of fame. So he decides to tell Yolanda to get started soon. It's official. Selena has a fan club and Yolanda's running the whole thing. Abraham and the rest of Selena's family are betting everything on Selena becoming a huge star. Yolanda has worked her way onto Team Selena. Now she just has to impress one more person. Selena herself. Two years later, in 1993, 22 year old Selena is a maid of honor at Suzette's wedding in Corpus Christi. She's wearing a white bridesmaid dress and a pearl choker necklace with her hair in a big updo. But right now she's sitting at a table watching her friends and family dance. And even though this is a happy occasion, she's having mixed feelings. Selena is fun and charismatic on stage and really personable and goofy. She might seem carefree, but she grew up pretty sheltered. Abraham raised his family as Jehovah's Witnesses and he was always overprotective. Like most Jehovah's Witnesses, the Quintanillas didn't celebrate birthdays because birthday celebrations have origins relating to paganism. So while she got out to practice music and travel to shows, she didn't get to play much with other kids. Now Selena doesn't have friends so much as she has employees. Selena had never even gone on a real date until she started secretly seeing her band's guitarist Chris Perez about three years ago. And a year ago, they eloped without telling anyone beforehand. Her parents were furious. And while they did eventually get over it, Selena and Chris now live right next door to her parents. She can't help but wonder what her own big, exciting wedding would have been like.

[Saatchi Cole]

I've done a lot of reporting on child stars and on like kids who end up having to kind of take care of the family. And it does really create this structure where they are so isolated and everybody in the family is relying on them. Like, all their hopes are pinned on this one person. It's so isolating.

[Sarah Hagi]

Yeah, that's exactly it. It's like regardless of how valued she is in her family, you're too young to be doing that. Selena then notices someone else sitting Yolanda. Yolanda has become so crucial to the family operation that she traveled from San Antonio to be one of Suzette's bridesmaids. Yolanda's done a great job with the fan club, which has grown a lot in the last few years. She's even been crucial with helping Selena out at events so that she isn't mobbed by fans. But even though Yolanda is running Selena's fan club, Selena's been so busy touring that she hasn't really had the chance to get to know her. Selena goes to sit with Yolanda, and the two women end up talking most of the night. As they talk, Selena is delighted to discover that she and Yolanda have a lot in common. So even though the age gap between them is over a decade, Selena starts thinking that maybe Yolanda could be more than an employee. Maybe she could be a confidant or even a friend. After the wedding, Selena and Yolanda start doing everything together. Shopping, traveling. Yolanda even carries Selena's slim fast shakes for her.

[Saatchi Cole]

It feels like Yolanda can tell that there's, like, an opening for her because Selina's so isolated and she needs help and they don't trust a lot of people. So if she can get into the inner circle, she's golden.

[Sarah Hagi]

Yeah, I feel like she patiently waited until getting the best impossible. And she found it. A few months later, Selena tells Yolanda that she has exciting news. She's going all in on her dream of opening her own boutique and salon. Selena's been making her own costumes for years, and it's always been a part of her appeal. Once, during an appearance on a popular local TV variety show, Selena explained how she painted her own outfit. She was 13 years old. Selena doesn't think she should have to choose between music and fashion. She wants to sing and make clothes for other people, but there's just one. Her dad, Abraham, sees anything besides music as a distraction. But Yolanda admires Selena's passion. She's instantly supportive. She even offers to help run the stores day to day so Selena can stay focused on her music. Selena's ecstatic. They strike a deal, and Yolanda moves from San Antonio to Corpus Christi to work for Selena full time. Finally, Selena thinks she's found someone who really gets her, someone she can trust. But while Selena sees a friend, Yolanda sees a window of opportunity. She's found a way to make herself indispensable to Selena, which has made her indispensable to the entire operation. As a part of the arrangement, Yolanda gets access to an American Express card that she uses to establish the lifestyle she's always wanted designer clothes, fancy restaurants, swanky car rides. Yolanda might have started as an outsider, but she's become a key part of the Quintanilla family business. And while it's easy to fire an employee who commits fraud, it's a lot harder to fire family.

[Saatchi Cole]

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[Sarah Hagi]

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[Sarah Hagi]

It'S early 1994, about four and a half months after Suzette's wedding, and Selena is having a big day. She's got on a red leather suit and a frilly shirt and she's leading a local morning DJ named Rock and Roll James and his camera crew on a tour of her new boutique, which she's named Selena etc. It's in a cute 50s era house not far from the Corpus Christi Bay and she has a second location opening soon in Yolanda's hometown of San Antonio. The DJ follows Selena through the boutique, which has a lot going on. A hair and nail salon plus a shop selling beaded bras, black hats, jewelry and T shirts with Selena's name in a curly Q font she's designed. It's the first big step in her larger dream. She wants to prove herself as more than just a singer.

[Saatchi Cole]

Oh my God, she was so iconic. Remember that like maroon jumpsuit she had with all the cutouts in the torso?

[Sarah Hagi]

She was so stylish. Ahead of her time in a big.

[Saatchi Cole]

Way ahead of her time. All these pop bitches are still trying to dress like selena did like 35 years ago.

[Sarah Hagi]

Absolutely. But Selena's also nervous. Her dad disapproves of the whole thing. If Selena etc. Doesn't do well, she's worried she won't get another chance. Selena's a big draw in the music world, but in their first few months the stores don't make much money. And between performing and promoting her music, Selena doesn't have time to work on her side hustle. So she relies on Yolanda more than ever to try and make Selena etc a success. Selena is especially glad to have Yolanda around at this time because her music career is moving fast. In early March 1994, a little over a month after opening her first boutique, Selena wears a cream colored halter dress to Radio City Music hall in New York. She's there for the Grammys, where she's been nominated for the first time, she's up for the Best Mexican American Album award for her 1993 album called Live. And she isn't just nominated, she wins. Off stage, Selena can't contain her excitement. She's taking photos of all the other stars at the awards show. It's a huge deal for her to even be in the Same room with people like Whitney Houston, Aretha Franklin, and Billy Joel. After the Grammys, Selena's label wants to expose her to an even broader audience. And they want to start by having her record a crossover album in English. This is a huge opportunity for Selena. Now she can follow in the footsteps of the big pop stars she idolizes, like Madonna and Donna Summer. Selena is confident that the future is bright. But she's made a huge mistake trusting Yolanda. Nine months after the Grammys, Abraham's biggest worry about Selena's store seems to be coming true. There's a problem at Selena, etc. Some models haven't been paid for their work. Even though Abraham gave Yolanda a check for them, Selena is busy recording her English language crossover album. So now this is Abraham's problem. Yolanda tells Abraham that she gave the check to Selena's fashion designer, but the designer says that's not true. In fact, he tells Abraham he's been having a lot of problems with Yolanda. We don't know exactly what this guy told Abraham, but he later tells reporters about all of the shady stuff happening at the boutique. He says Yolanda takes credit for other people's work. She confronts people for no apparent reason. She even seems to be sabotaging his designs by ripping the hem of the clothes. She isn't stocking hair products at the salon. And apparently she didn't pay models for a recent fashion show. The employees say she's a terrible boss and they're all scared to come to work. Later, everyone learns just how bad things have gotten. Yolanda's been firing the people she doesn't like, including a lot of Selena's friends who also worked at the store. It's part of a pattern intended to eliminate anyone who might be closer with Selena than she is. Even worse, Yolanda's relationship with Selena seems to have moved from professional super fan to total obsession. Her room at her parents house has basically turned into an altar to her best friend slash boss.

[Saatchi Cole]

If the person who was working for me and was also my friend was like this obsessed with me in their personal life, it would be so scary. And I get it's only in hindsight that you really see it.

[Sarah Hagi]

Yeah.

[Saatchi Cole]

Because otherwise she just seems like a really enthusiastic fan.

[Sarah Hagi]

Also, Yolanda's around our age at this time, which is frankly too old to be obsessed with someone in their early 20s.

[Saatchi Cole]

Yeah.

[Sarah Hagi]

A few months later, in March of 1995, it becomes impossible for Abraham to ignore Yolanda's behavior. He starts getting letters from upset fans, a ton of Them. They say they haven't received any materials from the Selena fan club, even though they paid their dues to get special merch like T shirts and posters. Yolanda was supposed to send them out, but she didn't. Abraham is seething, but he's also conflicted. Yolanda has become indispensable. He trusts Yolanda to be a sort of proxy for him when he's not around. He and Selena's mom have always been possessive and protective of Selena. Yolanda even goes with Selena on trips when he and Marcella can't make it. Last year, Yolanda went with her to LA on a trip where Selena filmed her first movie appearance, a cameo in Don Juan DeMarco starring Marlon Brando, Faye Dunaway and Johnny Depp. Everyone in Selena's camp trusts Yolanda. The family almost sees her as a second mother.

[Saatchi Cole]

I find it odd that this adult woman who is old enough to have built her own career, who's married, who is, you know, bringing her family into a new echelon of wealth, that for some reason she still needs a surrogate mom to escort her to work.

[Sarah Hagi]

Yeah. Selena's like, truly a full adult. She was old enough to get married. She can travel to LA on her own.

[Saatchi Cole]

Yeah.

[Sarah Hagi]

Even though it's sure to upset her. Abraham decides he has to tell Selena about the problems at the boutique. So he sits Selena down and breaks the news that Yolanda might be taking advantage of her and maybe even jeopardizing her business. But Selena is having none of it. She's always been really trusting of people and she totally brushes it off. This is Yolanda he's talking about. She tells him he's being paranoid and accuses him of thinking all people are bad. But Abraham knows something is wrong. The issues at the boutique are disturbing and the fan letters even more so. And the common factor in both is Yolanda. In early March 1995, Yolanda is sitting through a tense meeting with Suzette, Selena and Abraham. They're laying out some very serious accusations. Suzette and Abraham accuse Yolanda of stealing a lot of money from the boutiques, writing checks to herself from the Selena Etc. Bank account, and embezzling as much as $30,000 from Selena's fan club. Abraham asks her point blank what the hell is going on? And Yolanda says nothing. Even when Suzette starts yelling at her and calling her a liar and a thief, Yolanda knows that everything she's worked for, her proximity to Selena and all of her fame, wealth and power is on the line.

[Saatchi Cole]

I guess Silence is the best response because she does not have a defense here.

[Sarah Hagi]

She did it. She doesn't. And by this point, Selena is turning into a massive star. She'd just done huge shows at the Houston rodeo for almost 70,000 people wearing that iconic jumpsuit. She's working on her crossover album and getting the chance to potentially work with massive producers who've collaborated with people like Mariah Carey, Celine Dion and Cher. The sky is the limit for Selena, and Yolanda's been one of her closest confidants until now. We don't know exactly what Yolanda is thinking at this time, but she seems to be in denial because the next day she tries to go back to the office as if nothing happened. Abraham tells her to get off the property and bans her from the studio. Then she gets a phone call from Selena. She is officially fired. Yolanda is practically shaking as she puts the phone down. After everything she's done for the Quintanillas, she's in shock. Then anger seems to set in, because the next day, Yolanda walks into a gun store. The shop is called A Place to Shoot, and it's located in Yolanda's hometown of San Antonio. Yolanda tells the clerk that she's a nurse and that she's receiving death threats from the family of a patient. Of course, none of this is true. Over the next few days, she buys a.38 caliber double action revolver. Yolanda is starting to realize that she might actually be cut off from Selena and her family. It's a hard pill to swallow, but that doesn't mean she plans to go quietly. Even after all of this, Yolanda hasn't been fully fired. She's still technically helping Selena expand the boutiques, but their relationship is deeply frayed. Then, while on a business trip to Mexico related to the expansion, Yolanda goes to a bank and tries to empty out several bank accounts she still has access to. A suspicious teller alerts Selena and Selena calls Yolanda, pissed. She demands Yolanda come back to Texas and bring the bank records. Yolanda knows this is the end of the line. At the end of March 1995, about two weeks after Yolanda bought the gun, she's supposed to meet with Selena to hand over financial documents. But she doesn't give her all of the relevant records. And she says something else too. She tells Selena that she was pulled out of her car and raped during her trip to Mexico. Selena is suspicious, but she feels bad for Yolanda. Plus, she needs the rest of the documents. So the next morning, March 31, she tells Yolanda that she'll take her to the hospital. At the hospital, Yolanda undergoes an examination. But when it becomes clear that the tests are inconclusive, she admits the truth to Selena. She lied about the rape. After the tests, Selena drives Yolanda back to the Corpus Christi Motel where she's been staying. It's around late morning and when they get there, Selena empties a bag full of financial records onto the bed. She's pissed and she knows that she still doesn't have the accurate bank records from Yolanda. Their discussion gets heated. Selena is clearly trying to cut Yolanda off completely. Hurt and angry, Selena takes off a ring that Yolanda had given her earlier that year. It's a big egg shaped ring with white gold and tons of diamonds. Yolanda had told Selena's employees to chip in to buy Selena the fancy ring. But now it's clear that she used Selena's money to buy it. And this is when things take a turn. This part of the story has been told many times over and the exact events here are disputed. For some of these facts, we're going off incomplete evidence. But what we do know is that after Selena takes the ring off, Yolanda takes her gun out of the bag. Then she threatens to kill herself. Hotel staff later say that Selena runs out of the room and into the parking lot and Yolanda follows her. She yells bitch. At Selena and then Yolanda fires one shot. The bullet hits Selena in her right shoulder. Selena manages to make her way to the lobby door and she begs the staff to get help. An ambulance arrives and rushes Selena to the hospital. Yolanda sprints into the parking lot and gets into her red pickup truck, but she doesn't leave. She sits in the car with the gun pointed to her head even after the police arrive for almost 10 hours.

[Saatchi Cole]

Have you ever met a scammer on this show? With such a victim complex, it's kind of amazing. She really generates her own pity.

[Sarah Hagi]

It's beyond insane. Yolanda's just crying and crying in her truck and she continues to threaten to kill herself. The police use a special two way phone to negotiate, trying to get Yolanda to give herself up. But there's a problem with the phones. They let in radio interference. So at 1:05pm, Yolanda catches a snippet of breaking news. The bullet hit Selena's artery and she died at the hospital. When Yolanda finally gets out of the car and gives herself up, the police instantly arrest her. Yolanda willingly signs a confession stating that she shot Selena with one bullet. Yolanda has ended Selena's life and altered her own life forever. This act of violence will turn Yolanda into one of the most hated people in South Texas and will turn Selena from a star into a martyr with a global legacy. If your TV experience is feeling overwhelming, meaning you're juggling multiple streaming services and endlessly searching for your favorite shows, then we have the solution for you. Philo.

[Saatchi Cole]

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[Sarah Hagi]

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[Saatchi Cole]

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[Sarah Hagi]

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[Saatchi Cole]

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[Sarah Hagi]

I feel like a La la la.

[Saatchi Cole]

La la la la la la la la la la.

[Sarah Hagi]

It's October 1995, seven months after Selena's death. Yolanda sits in a wood paneled Houston courtroom. She's wearing a white shirt, a brown gray suit and a colorful brooch. She' for murder. The prosecution plays the FBI recording of the police's negotiation with Yolanda, the one where she sat in her car after the shooting. The tape is mostly Yolanda sobbing. She repeats over and over that she didn't mean to shoot Selena and that she doesn't deserve to live. She also blames Abraham, Selena's dad, for what happened. At one point, she accuses Abraham of raping her. As a tape plays in the courtroom, Yolanda starts crying too. As if on cue. Things have been pretty intense in the courtroom. At one point during the trial, several workers from the motel testified that they had seen Selena run out of Yolanda's room and cry out for help. As they describe the whole scene that March day, Selena's mother rushes out of the courtroom. Yolanda's attorney tries to use that same tape as evidence that Abraham is the villain in all of this. His argument is that Yolanda was a trusted member of the Quintanilla family and that she had accidentally shot her friend due to inexperience with a gun. The kicker, he says the only reason Yolanda bought the gun was because she was afraid of Abraham. Meanwhile, the prosecution describes a shooting as a premeditated act. To them, the recording is vital evidence of Yolanda's pathological lying. A key to their argument. The testimonies of Selena's final moments. At one point, the chief prosecutor posted a photo of Selena on the jury box and spoke to the image as though he was talking to Selena herself.

[Saatchi Cole]

That is so bizarre. What a strange court case.

[Sarah Hagi]

It's just more proof that they don't see Selena as a person.

[Saatchi Cole]

No.

[Sarah Hagi]

But like, as a figure.

[Saatchi Cole]

Yeah. She's like a collection of ideas. Which kind of explains why people are still so offended about this case.

[Sarah Hagi]

Yes. Outside the courtroom, the scene is just as tense. At the time of her death, Selena was a superstar with a huge following. Because of this, the trial was moved to Houston, a few hours away from Selena's hometown. But hundreds of people still gather outside the courthouse every day. Some even bring handmade signs and scream hang the witch. Fans chant sien anos or 100 years in the hopes Yolanda receives that as her sentence. There are posters that show Yolanda handcuffed in the middle of a target. These same posters label Yolanda La Marana or the Sow.

[Saatchi Cole]

I'll say this about real Selena Stans. They keep it 100.

[Sarah Hagi]

Oh, they keep it 100? Yes.

[Saatchi Cole]

They said, fuck this woman forever. And they have never, ever wavered from that in decades.

[Sarah Hagi]

No. Her name is enough to make people visibly upset at this point.

[Saatchi Cole]

Yeah.

[Sarah Hagi]

The testimony goes on for weeks. They even bring in the dermatologist who Yolanda had apparently scammed back in the 80s in San Antonio. Unsurprisingly, he tells a court that Yolanda is, quote, not a law abiding citizen. After two weeks, the trial winds down. The jury deliberates for almost two days. Then they return with a verdict. They find Yolanda guilty of murder. On October 26, 1995, Yolanda is sentenced to life in prison. She begins serving her sentence just a few weeks later. And she won't even be eligible for parole until she serves 30 years. A lot can change in three decades. But there's one thing everyone can count on. People will still be obsessed with Selena all those years later. It's a clear day in Corpus Christi in February 2024. Overlooking the bay is a statue of Selena comfortably leaning against an elegantly detailed monument. People are lining up to leave flowers and take pictures. It's been almost 30 years since Selena's death, but the singer is even more popular and influential now than she was in 1995. Countless movies and shows have rehashed her story over the last 30 years. The biopic starring JLo, produced by Selena's family, a telenovela. A recent Netflix series produced by Suzette and Abraham, and this year a two part series on the Oxygen network called Selena and Yolanda the Secrets Between Them. As you can guess by the title, the Docuseries isn't just Selena's story. It also features a lengthy interview with Yolanda and her family members. It's her first English interview in decades and she says it's her chance to finally say her piece. In the Docuseries, Yolanda makes a bold claim that she was writing those checks to herself because Selena asked her to. According to Yolanda, Selena told her to write checks to herself so that the money couldn't be traced. Yolanda claims that she needed to keep the money a secret from Abraham because she was flying to Mexico to carry out an affair with a doctor who had performed liposuctions on multiple members of the Quintanilla family.

[Saatchi Cole]

She's really lucky that she's still in jail because if she wasn't and she was saying the stuff, one of Selena's fans would probably kill her.

[Sarah Hagi]

Well, there's already evidence that this is a lie. Though the doctor did exist, he was deposed in Yolanda Yolanda's 1995 murder trial and said that Yolanda was taking advantage of Selena's loneliness to get close to her. He said he only met Selena shortly before she was murdered, when she was trying to open a Selena Etc location in Monterrey, Mexico and his deposition was never even introduced into the trial record. The timing for this docuseries, which seems designed to make Yolanda look good, is convenient because Yolanda is up for parole in 2025. Selena's fans and the general public agree that the docuseries doesn't add much to the conversation. It doesn't shed light on a complex relationship. It only adds to the chorus of attempts to exploit Selena's legacy. And now there's a growing call amongst fans. It's time to let Selena rest. Saatchi, this is one of those stories that I know you were obviously very aware of, but I'm wondering like, did this give you more information you didn't have? Like, what are your thoughts?

[Saatchi Cole]

I think what's interesting about it is that the murder tends to overtake the scam and people forget that the root of this was that she was stealing money from this girl who was self made and who was supporting her family and who was, you know, working very hard and she would have happily continued to steal from this woman that she had said that she was obsessed with and that she was a second mother to and how close they were. And, you know, how dare you hold me accountable for ripping you off.

[Sarah Hagi]

It is really crazy because Yolanda was providing a service, and she probably could have just been pretty good at it in a normal way. But it is very insane that it got to the point where it did. And for me, I grew up watching the Selena movie. I don't know if you remember, but it was, like, on TV all the time. Oh, yeah.

[Saatchi Cole]

I've seen it so many times. Yeah.

[Sarah Hagi]

And I remember being legitimately scared of Yolanda and the woman they got to play. Yolanda looks like the real Yolanda.

[Saatchi Cole]

Yeah, she does.

[Sarah Hagi]

It was terrifying. It was a very terrifying movie.

[Saatchi Cole]

Yeah. I mean, I think there's something especially scary about a female scammer who comes in with all of the auspices of a warm, maternal figure and someone who wants to be nurturing and comforting and who wants to provide care to a young woman who probably wanted it. Cause she was, you know, overwhelmed. She was living an overwhelming life very fast. And then have her turn on a dime and have her actually be the villain. Like, there's nothing scarier.

[Sarah Hagi]

That movie is a horror movie big time. I do feel like it is really sad how little agency Selina seemed to have. Her life kind of wasn't her own at any point.

[Saatchi Cole]

Yeah. It's so clear why people feel so strongly about her, because it feels like she never really got to kick off. She had so much potential. Like, who knows who she would have been now if she had been able to live. We probably wouldn't be dealing with Jennifer Lopez, who cannot sing but can dance, if she actually was able to have a full career.

[Sarah Hagi]

Yes.

[Saatchi Cole]

Yolanda is up for parole in March. Do you think she's gonna get it?

[Sarah Hagi]

You know what? Anything's possible at this point without thinking about, you know, who the person she murdered was. Like, plenty of people who've murdered and served whatever amount of years end up getting parole if they were an exemplary prisoner.

[Saatchi Cole]

But she also seems to have no remorse. She still has nothing in her life. Whole life is about Selena.

[Sarah Hagi]

Yeah, that's true. I mean, I don't know. She's so scary to me.

[Saatchi Cole]

Yeah.

[Sarah Hagi]

Okay. A lot of lessons. But one thing that I'm always really shocked by people not realizing about famous people is that, like, they don't want to be around their fans. They do not want to be around people who see them that way. And you will never actually get close to them. If you act that way, like this is a one off. It's very rare that a famous person sees someone crying and screaming over them and is like, hey, you want to hang out?

[Saatchi Cole]

Well, this story is like the ultimate bad result of a parasocial relationship. And so long as a dynamic has kind of an uneven footing, which it will always. Because if one person is in adoration and the other person is always kind of holding something that that other person wants, it's just never going to work. I mean, Yolanda went into it trying to get something. It wasn't just that she was a fan. It was that she wanted to take something from Selena. And as soon as a boundary was set, that's when she reacted.

[Sarah Hagi]

Well, she thought she was owed something for being a fan of Selena. Which is, let's be real, how a lot of fans operate, especially with the way things kind of are online where, you know, you say one thing about a celebrity or whatever, they come for you very hard. But yeah, I don't know. I do think it's like they will never want to be around you. Just admire them for who they are. Like their music. Usually they're not really that interesting as people. Mm.

[Saatchi Cole]

I think this is a great lesson, actually, for our listeners who have parasocial relationships with us. We're not that interesting. And please don't murder me if you see me. Thanks.

[Sarah Hagi]

Actually, I am really interesting and. Okay, you know what?

[Saatchi Cole]

Murder Sarah. That's great, actually. I agree.

[Sarah Hagi]

Don't do that. But I am actually. If you think I'm cool. I'm cooler actually in real life, off the show. So just know that. Saatchi, not so much, but me, definitely. Yeah.

[Saatchi Cole]

Nothing cooler than yelling about how cool you are on a podcast.

[Sarah Hagi]

It's just a fact. I'm confident. Okay. I guess it's a crime now.

[Saatchi Cole]

If you like scam, you can listen to every episode early and ad free right now by joining Wondery plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcast Prime. Members can listen ad free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short [e-mail] survey.

[Sarah Hagi]

This is Yolanda Saldivar. Ben Fatale. I'm Sarah Hackey.

[Saatchi Cole]

And I'm Sachi Cole. If you have a tip for us on a story that you think we should cover, please email [e-mail] we use many sources in our resources. A few that were particularly helpful were Commo la Flor by Joe, Nick Patowski and Pamela Koloff's oral history of Selena's life and career for Texas Monthly.

[Sarah Hagi]

Paula Mejia wrote this episode. Additional writing by us Saatchi Cole and Sarah Haige. Olivia Briley and Eric Thurm are our story editors. Backchecking by Meredith Clark Sound design by James Morgan. Our music supervisor is Scott Velasquez. For Frisson Sync our man. Our managing producers are Matt Gantt and Desi Blaylock. Our senior managing producer is Nick Ryan. Janine Cornelo and Stephanie Jens are our development producers. Our associate producers are Charlotte Miller and Lexi Peery. Our producers are John Reed, Yasmin Ward and Kate Young. Our senior producers are Sarah Enny and Ginny Bloom. Our executive producers are Jenny Lauer, Beckman, Marshall Louis and Erin O'Flaherty. For wondering.

[Saatchi Cole]

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[Sarah Hagi]

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[Saatchi Cole]

One of the cool things about Chime is that they offer fee free overdraft coverage up to $200. So if you ever need a little extra cushion, they've got your back. And when you make your next deposit, it automatically gets applied to your balance. No hassle at all. Make your fall finances a little greener by working towards your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in two [e-mail] scampod that's chime.com scampod Chime feels like progress.

[Sarah Hagi]

Banking Services and Debit card provided by the Bancorp App NA or StrideBank NA members, FDIC SpotMe eligibility requirements and overdraft limits apply. Booths are available to eligible CHIME members enrolled in SpotMe and are subject to monthly limits. Terms and conditions apply. Go to chime.com disclosures for details.