An Affair, an Axe, and a Not Guilty Verdict | Crimes Of...

Summary

Podcast Summary: An Affair, an Axe, and a Not Guilty Verdict | Crimes Of...

Podcast: Scams, Money, & Murder
Hosts: Sabrina d'Anarroga & Corinne Vian
Release Date: February 5, 2026

Episode Overview

In this emotionally charged episode, Sabrina and Corinne delve into the infamous case of Susan Polk—a woman who, after being groomed by her therapist as a teenager, went on to marry him, endure decades of manipulation and abuse, and ultimately killed him. This episode is a deep exploration not just of the crime, but of the decades of power imbalances, grooming, emotional abuse, and trauma that led to a devastating outcome. The hosts guide listeners through complex questions about victimhood, culpability, and justice in cases that blur the lines of right and wrong.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Red Flag, Green Flag Game: Setting the Stage

• The hosts open with playful but sobering banter about "walking red flags" in relationships, especially when boundaries between therapist and patient are crossed.
  • "This episode's a walking red flag." – Corinne [02:03]
  • "Lots of them in there." – Sabrina [01:17]
• The context: Susan Polk married her therapist, Felix Polk—who began treating her when she was 15. Decades later, she killed him.

2. Background: Susan’s Vulnerability and Grooming

• Susan was a bright teenager overwhelmed by her parents' divorce, leading to her referral to Felix, a respected, much older therapist specializing in adolescent anxiety.
• Felix, 42 at the time, quickly crossed boundaries; the relationship turned romantic and sexual while Susan was still a minor.
  • "Yeah, this is not romance. This is statutory rape." – Sabrina [13:26]
  • Age of consent was 18 in California, making this relationship unequivocally illegal and predatory, even if not yet technically against professional ethics codes in 1972.

3. Therapist-Patient Power Imbalance

• Discussion on emotional dependency, "transference", and the influence a therapist can hold over a vulnerable minor.
  • "He made her feel special, he made her think that he needed her as well, reinforcing dependency and emotional bonding. Yeah, grooming her." – Corinne [18:40]
• Susan’s mother intervened after discovering the relationship, but the damage to Susan's perception and independence was already done. No legal actions were taken.

4. Transition to Marriage and Family

• After Felix divorces his first wife (due to exposure of the affair), he marries Susan in 1982 (he is 50, she is 25).
• They have three sons and live a materially privileged life, but emotional toxicity permeates their home life.

5. Domestic Abuse and Downward Spiral

• Power dynamics never reset. Felix frequently belittles and threatens Susan, at times suggesting institutionalization during arguments.
  • "Felix is the only one who can show her the way." – Corinne [36:18]
  • "Felix talked to Susan like she was a child, which maybe in his mind she always was." – Sabrina [36:49]
• Susan’s mental health deteriorates under ongoing gaslighting and isolation. She attempts suicide in 2001 and later seeks divorce, but Felix resists, reinforcing control.

6. Family Fallout and Escalation

• The children are split in their allegiances, with the youngest, Gabriel, initially siding with his mother, and the older two with Felix.
• Domestic disturbances result in regular police visits, but both parents wave off intervention, perpetuating the cycle of abuse.

7. Trigger Event: Divorce and Financial Desperation

• During divorce proceedings, Felix manipulates the situation to obtain full custody and most of the family assets, leaving Susan feeling utterly abandoned and desperate.
  • "He tried to wait for her to go somewhere else and then, like, abandon her there." – Sabrina [45:17]
• In a rage over this betrayal, Susan returns to the family estate, where the fatal confrontation with Felix occurs.

8. The Murder: Unclear Reality and Aftermath

• Susan recalls a struggle where Felix attacked her and she killed him in self-defense, but evidence and her subsequent actions (covering up, not calling police) cast doubt on the narrative.
  • "We don't know for sure what actually happened on that evening." – Corinne [48:37]

9. Trial and Public Perception

• The trial becomes a media circus, complicated by Susan’s decision to represent herself after her lawyer's wife is murdered.
• Susan’s defense oscillates between lucid descriptions of abuse and increasingly erratic or paranoid claims, undermining her credibility.
  • "She even makes a claim that she had a dream that predicted the 9/11 attacks..." – Corinne [60:36]
• Her three sons testify, with only one (Eli) supporting her claim of self-defense.

10. Verdict and Legacy

• Susan is convicted of second-degree murder. The jury does not believe the killing was premeditated but also rejects self-defense.
• Her subsequent parole bid is unsuccessful due to disruptive behavior at the hearing.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Consequences of Grooming:
  • "That imbalance, it follows you. And over time, affection blurred into manipulation. Safety turned into fear." – Sabrina [07:03]
• On Cycle of Abuse:
  • "Instead of offering reassurance to Susan, [Felix is] treating her as a symptom, a diagnosis, and he's reinforcing the role he established in her mind decades earlier. And that role is that Susan cannot trust her own mind." – Corinne [36:09]
• On the Tragedy for Children:
  • "This isn't just a murder trial. This is a son being asked to testify against his own mother." – Sabrina [08:33]
  • "No child should ever have to walk into something like that. No, ever." – Corinne [51:13]
• On Justice and Victimhood:
  • "So yes, Susan Polk is a killer, but she is also a victim. She was preyed upon by a man that she later then killed." – Corinne [64:16]
• On Legal Strategy:
  • "Given the right defense, this case would have played out differently." – Corinne [62:18]
• On Self-Representation in Court:
  • "Statistically, it does not work in the person's favor." – Sabrina [55:53]

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Important Timestamps

• 01:56 – Red flag/green flag game introduces the ethical nightmare.
• 10:09 – Overview of Susan's troubled early years and introduction to Felix.
• 13:26 – Explicit acknowledgment that the relationship was statutory rape.
• 18:40 – Description of Felix’s grooming techniques.
• 24:44 – Susan moves out, setting the scene for the final conflict.
• 36:09 – Deep discussion of the complex cycle of psychological abuse.
• 39:39 – Susan attempts suicide; the spiral deepens.
• 44:50 – Felix manipulates divorce/custody, devastating Susan.
• 47:18 – Narrative of the fatal confrontation.
• 51:13 – Gabriel finds Felix’s body; harrowing family trauma.
• 53:24 – The circus-like trial begins.
• 57:03 – Sons take the stand; shocking family divisions are revealed.
• 61:04 – Susan's failed parole attempt.
• 64:05 – Closing reflections on justice, abuse, and victimhood.

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Tone and Language

The episode is candid, emotional, at times darkly humorous (“walking red flags”), and deeply empathetic. The hosts maintain a conversational, compassionate tone, never losing sight of the human suffering at every part of the story. The narrative is honest about the legal, ethical, and emotional complexities, with personal reflections tying modern lessons to the historic tragedy.

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Summary Takeaway

This episode exposes a crime rooted in decades of systematic abuse, power imbalance, and emotional destruction. Susan Polk’s story is not one of clear villains or heroes. Instead, the hosts urge listeners to see the legacy of grooming and psychological manipulation, and wonder: when abuse destroys every boundary, what does justice really look like?

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For listeners seeking a nuanced, thoughtful take on true crime cases where the lines between perpetrator and victim blur, this episode is essential—and haunting—listening.

Transcript

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Hey, there. We're Sabrina d' Anarroga and Corinne Vian, hosts of Crimes of.

[Corinne Vian]

Crimes of is a weekly true crime series with each season diving into a different theme, from unsolved murders to mysterious disappearances and the cases that haunt us most. And since it's Valentine's season, we are unpacking Crimes of Passion. When love turns into obsession, passion twists into paranoia, and jealousy drives people beyond the edge of reason.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Crimes of is a Crime House original. Listen wherever you get your podcasts or watch on YouTube new episodes every Tuesday.

[Corinne Vian]

This is Crime House.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Welcome back, mommies. Shall we play another game of red flag, green flag? Yes.

[Corinne Vian]

I speak for all of us, and I say yes. Let's play.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Let's play.

[Corinne Vian]

Let us play. The case we're covering today. Today is chock full, unfortunately, of moments that work perfectly for this game. Today we are covering the story of Susan Polk, a woman who married her own therapist and then killed him.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Which, you know, that sentence in and of itself, kind of a red flag, right?

[Corinne Vian]

Lots of them in there.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Yeah, lots. Yeah. So I'll go first in the game. Red flag or green flag? They're a great listener and are always there for you at your lowest, but also because they're your therapist. Red flag or green flag?

[Corinne Vian]

So out of context of this case, green flag. You want your therapist to always be there for you.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Right. Because we haven't defined that it was romantic yet.

[Corinne Vian]

Right. Major red flag, given the context of this case.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

True.

[Corinne Vian]

Your spouse threatens to have you involuntarily committed during arguments, stating it is for your own good. Red flag or green flag?

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Red flag.

[Corinne Vian]

Major red flag. Yeah.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Like I want, like a giant flag. Like, I feel like right now we're just waving little tiny flags. I feel like we need, like, a huge one.

[Corinne Vian]

Massive. This episode's a walking red flag.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Yeah.

[Corinne Vian]

And unfortunately, these were real life scenarios that Susan Polk had to live with every day. According to Susan, her husband Felix made her feel crazy for their entire marriage. But the thing is, it started way before that. Because before Felix was her husband, he was also her therapist. And he was also her therapist when Susan was 15 years old.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Yeah. For most of Susan's life, Felix had complete control over her mental well being. That is, until October 13, 2002, when Susan asked herself, was it better to be called crazy or labeled a killer?

[Corinne Vian]

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[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Take a sip of an ice cold Coke Zero sugar, you know you're getting.

[Corinne Vian]

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[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

It's so delicious you can almost taste it with your ears.

[Corinne Vian]

Hear those bubbles, imagine them tingling on your tongue.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Fizzy deliciousness.

[Corinne Vian]

Listen to that cascading liquid.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

It's unmistakably tasty. All with zero sugar.

[Corinne Vian]

Crisp, refreshing and ice cold. Ah, Coke zero sugar.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Real Coca Cola taste zero sugar.

[Corinne Vian]

Welcome to Crimes of Passion, a Crime House original Powered by Pave Studios. We're your hosts Sabrina deannaroga and Corinne Vien.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Every Tuesday we're exploring a different corner of the true crime universe, examining cases that left a permanent impact on society. This season we're stepping into the world of romance, where love turns to obsession, where logic slips away and raw emotion pushes people past the point of return.

[Corinne Vian]

If you're loving Crimes of, please follow rate and review us wherever you listen. It helps us build this community and we love hearing from you. To get early access and ad free listening, subscribe to the Crime House plus community on Apple Podcasts. You can also catch us on YouTube where we include visuals that bring every case to life.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Today we're talking about Susan Polk, who as a teen was referred to Dr. Felix Polk for anxiety. Despite the ethical issues, their relationship turned romantic and a decade later, Susan became his wife.

[Corinne Vian]

And 20 years after that, Susan would also become his murderer.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

A warning before we begin this episode contains contains a lot of potentially triggering content, including descriptions of mental illness, domestic violence, molestation, grooming, emotional abuse, murder, suicide, and the endangerment of children.

[Corinne Vian]

And also, we want to start off by saying that there is no debate as to what happened here. Susan Polk definitely did kill her husband. But if you think that means this case is simple, think again. Because it is far from far from that. This story lives in the gray where there are power imbalances, boundaries that are severely blurred, and a relationship that is far beyond inappropriate.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Right. And so the question we're asking today, like you were saying, was not did Susan kill Felix? Because we know she did. The question is, how did she and Felix end up here? And what decades of control, grooming and emotional damage can do to a person over time.

[Corinne Vian]

Yeah, I had briefly heard of this case prior to this episode, but I did not know the details and I wish it didn't exist.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Yeah, me too. It's very sad in the end.

[Corinne Vian]

Yeah.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

But you do see this come up. I feel like in media or just like in television and movies, like this sort of scenario is portrayed. And it's often like a horror movie where it's. You're made to feel like the killer is the scary person. But are they really the monster in this case?

[Corinne Vian]

Are they really? So when Susan first met Felix Polk, she was 15 years old. She was anxious, she was overwhelmed, she was looking for help.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Yeah. And Felix wasn't just someone to talk to. He was her therapist. The one that she would confide in, trusted with her fears, her thoughts, her inner world.

[Corinne Vian]

And at first, that felt like safety.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Felix was there for the hard moments and he knew her better than anyone else because that was literally his job.

[Corinne Vian]

But a relationship that starts in a therapist's office should never progress beyond it. But unfortunately, in this case, it did. But that power imbalance doesn't just magically reset because you call it marriage.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

No, that imbalance, it follows you. And over time, affection blurred into manipulation. Safety turned into fear.

[Corinne Vian]

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[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

To see what debt relief you may qualify for. That's national debt relief.com the courtroom goes quiet as 19 year old Gabriel Polk walks to the witness stand. He doesn't look angry. He doesn't look nervous. He looks tired. The long, brutal days of the trial have worn him down just like any anyone else. Gabriel has been sitting in the room for weeks now, listening to strangers talk about his family like it's a puzzle that they're going to try to solve. When in reality it is the Worst thing that has ever happened to him. He's tried to move on. He hates reliving it. But this trial has forced his hand. For nearly four years now, he's been in and out of courts, surrounded by nameless men in suits, heard countless testimonies and faced blinding camera flashes. Today, it's finally his turn to speak. One of the nameless men in suits asks Gabriel to solemnly swear to tell the truth. He does what is asked of him. And then the questions begin. And it's in this moment that something becomes painfully clear. This isn't just a murder trial. This is a son being asked to testify against his own mother. Gabriel answers with care. Like every word, Expelled is a piece of him lost. He doesn't understand how he got here. How does a family end up in this scenario? How does a child grow up to testify against his own mother at the murder trial of his own father?

[Corinne Vian]

Ugh. So sad. I can't even fathom this moment for a child. I know, I mean, let alone your father is murdered, but now you have to stand up in court to testify against your mother. Like I. That's a whole other element of this case that we will talk about. But I too had the same questions. How does a family end up here? How do they get here? So what better way to answer that.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Than from the beginning?

[Corinne Vian]

Let's do it. Okay. So unfortunately a lot of Susan's upbringing is pretty vague. But here is what we do know. Susan Polk was born Susan Louise Samuels in 1957. She grew up in Northern California. And sometime in her early teens, Susan's parents got divorced. And as many children of divorce, this deeply impacted Susan, but to the point where it caused a lot of anxiety, panic attacks and she didn't have the tools or knowledge of how to process it and cope with these feelings, which led to her becoming seen as a troubled child. And she was acting out in school and wasn't behaving as well and performing as well in school. So when she was 15, her school recommended that Susan's parents seek professional help for Susan. Because this once bright, cheerful young girl, her light was dimming. And this is how 15 year old Susan would meet her future husband, Felix Polk.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Yeah, let's just take a moment. Let's reiterate that for anyone who maybe spaced out in the past 30 seconds, 15 year old Susan was about to meet her future husband because she needed to seek help from a therapist to help manage her anxiety. So really digging in here, her meet cute with her future husband was not what you Would think of out at a bar. Well, shouldn't be at a bar. She's 15.

[Corinne Vian]

But like a typical meet cute, you know, it's not on. It's not on hinge.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

It's not in MySpace back in Arden.

[Corinne Vian]

Age appropriate drink at a bar.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

No, her meet cute happens in her therapist's office because her meet cute is her therapist. Like she is entering a relationship with her therapist. A 15 year old girl and an adult man.

[Corinne Vian]

Yeah, I feel like we should just keep reiterating it. But anyway, it's 1972. Susan is 15 years old, struggling with anxiety, and her mother sends Susan to a child psychotherapist named Dr. Felix Polk. Why don't you tell everyone, Corinne, how old Dr. Felix Polk was?

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

It was 42.

[Corinne Vian]

42?

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Yeah. 27 years older than the teenager Susan. Yep.

[Corinne Vian]

This is going to be really icky. But before it got icky, Dr. Felix Polk was on the outside, from everyone else's perspective. A very respectable and well established doctor in his field. He had a long list of clients, was wealthy, married with adult children, and was well versed in helping patients and especially adolescent patients with anxiety. So he really did seem like the perfect therapist for young Susan. But that was far from the truth. Now, it's not totally clear what happened in their sessions or when things shifted or when things shifted from the professional client relationship to the romantic relationship. But sources do claim it didn't take very long and the patient therapist relationship became romantic, even sexual, pretty quickly. Susan was still very much a teenager, and Felix was beyond being her therapist. He was in a position of power. He was in his 40s and was married with children.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Yeah, this is not romance. This is statutory rape. She was underage, she was vulnerable, she was seeking help for her mental health. And she saw Felix, her therapist, as someone who cared for her, who understood her, who wanted the best of her. And he totally took advantage of this situation and his power over her.

[Corinne Vian]

Right. Like we said, this episode is a walking red flag.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Yeah, I feel like we're just gonna keep saying the same things over.

[Corinne Vian]

Oh my God.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

She was way too young. This is so messed up.

[Corinne Vian]

Cause it's infuriating. It feels like there should have been so many checks and balances to prevent this from happening, which naturally led me to look up the laws at this time. So in 1972 in California, the age of consent was 18 years old. So even with consent, this is statutory rape. No question about it. I know today it is illegal to have a relationship as a therapist with your client. It is something that you could get your license revoked. It is unethical. But I was curious what the rules and laws were in 1972. Unfortunately, that law did not exist.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Wow. I'm so shocked. Given how much was going on in the world of psychology, I would have thought that that would have been something.

[Corinne Vian]

Well, I think.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Do we know when it came into effect? I hope it wasn't like, 10 years ago.

[Corinne Vian]

I didn't look up the date. But now it is a law. But in 1972, that wasn't. But all mental health professionals knew this was unethical. Everyone knew it was unethical. I almost feel like it was one of those things that felt like it didn't need to be a law because it was an unspoken thing that everyone knows. It's kind of like the hot coffee.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Thing where don't drink scalding hot coffee.

[Corinne Vian]

You should know that. But they didn't put the sleeve on the coffee until someone burnt themself with the hot coffee and sued McDonald's. I think it was for, like, millions of dollars.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Okay. But in defense of the McDonald's woman, her coffee was actually, like, way too hot.

[Corinne Vian]

It was scalding. Yeah.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Like it. She shouldn't have been served. That coffee should be handed to you within a couple minutes. You should be able to take a sip and go, oh, that's a little too hot for me. Without damaging your insides and, like, ripping your flesh off of your skin. So that was McDonald's fault.

[Corinne Vian]

Yes.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

But alas.

[Corinne Vian]

Pivot. Let's do a whole new episode all about the McDonald's lawsuit. Actually, we should do that in the future. Yes. This did not exist in 1972, but people did know inherently there is an unequal relationship dynamic here at play. A therapist has power. A patient discloses their most vulnerable self with a therapist, but the therapist does not exchange return that in the favor. It's not a tit for tat relationship. It is. Therapist has the power and control.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Patient is the patient.

[Corinne Vian]

Is the patient.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Yeah, patient is the patient. But, like, kind of like what you were saying with it being this unspoken role, it's also not something that no one ever saw. Right, Right. This is something that therapists do experience even today.

[Corinne Vian]

Yeah.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Yeah. It's called transference. The person who is in therapy starts to kind of unconsciously redirect some of their emotions and some of the things about their important relationships onto their therapists. And sometimes that can manifest with admiration and romance. Feeling like you're in love with your therapist.

[Corinne Vian]

Right. Cause it's this feeling of like, wow, this person understands me better than anyone ever has before. And I imagine for Susan, who's having a hard time coping with her parents divorce and her parents are struggling to hold space for her, she doesn't know how to talk about her emotions. Her parents don't understand her. She's desperately seeking. I mean, I think of myself at 15, like, you just want to be loved and taken care of. And she's desperately seeking someone to make her feel validated.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Yeah, yeah. She becomes dependent on him to feel okay.

[Corinne Vian]

Yeah, exactly.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

And no, we were not inside of this session. So we don't know exactly how things went down. But Felix absolutely knew what he was doing.

[Corinne Vian]

Yep.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

He fed Susan's feelings with his own romantic and sexual advances, which was inappropriate on its own before you even factor in that she's a minor. He was also married with kids.

[Corinne Vian]

It's disgusting. It's so gross. It also really does make me wonder how many patients Felix did this with beyond Susan. Yeah, like, I don't think this is the only time it happened. We don't know that.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Do you watch the show? Nobody wants this.

[Corinne Vian]

Yeah.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Have you. Are you up to date?

[Corinne Vian]

Yeah. Okay, well, right.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Not to be a spoiler, but there is one of the characters in it has a relationship with a therapist, thinks that she's special, realizes it's a pattern for him.

[Corinne Vian]

And yeah, I really think that. And granted, again, this is like my own take on this. There's no other information to back it up, but I really do believe Felix knew what he was doing. He was unhappy in his marriage and was violating so many boundaries. He also apparently confided in Susan, 15 year old Susan, who is his patient. He starts confiding in and saying, like, oh, my relationship's not great, like I'm unhappy. And he keeps harping on this fact that Susan is so special that she's older than her years and so wise.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

So he's grooming her.

[Corinne Vian]

Exactly. And he also established himself as the only person who understood her, the only person who could make her feel safe, isolating her and the only person who could help her. And then he made her feel special. He made her think that he needed her as well. Reinforcing dependency and emotional bonding. Yeah, grooming her.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

This kind of reminding me of the Talhot blonde case a little bit too, with just like the way that the conversations went and just building that dependency and like, oh, we have to be together because we have this damage of our own that only the other person can fix.

[Corinne Vian]

It's trauma bonding.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

But like one Person doesn't actually have the trauma, and they're just manipulating the other person.

[Corinne Vian]

It also makes me so mad because I'm the biggest advocate for therapy. Like, even this case is, like, this is proof to me that people need to heal themselves and work on themselves. But it's also an example that you can't really always trust the therapist.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Yeah. Which is important to change your therapist if you feel like you don't have the right fit. But it's also like it's doubling down on that. It's like, just also proving how vulnerable kids are. Like, you're bringing your child to this therapist, and you're trusting that they're helping your child with their anxiety, which is exactly what Susan's mom thought. However, it did not take long for Susan's mom to figure out that there was something not right going on and that boundaries were crossed, which you're like, okay, yes. Like an adult who is responsible stepping in. You would do. Go, mommies. So Susan's mom finds out. She's absolutely horrified. Rightfully so. She called Felix a predator. She knew the quote, unquote relationship was extremely unhealthy. She confronted Felix privately, urging him to end the relationship. And then she pulled Susan away from him, terminating the treatment for her entirely. And even though Felix did back off, at least for a little while, the damage had been done. And Susan was just so impressionable at this time, and her being forced to stop see Felix, she was just, like, fully convinced that she actually should be with him. She was in love with Felix Polk, and this was her mom coming between her and her one true love.

[Corinne Vian]

Right. And unfortunately, her mom did not file any, like, legal case or go to the police about this, because it is. It was rape. But despite pulling her from the sessions, the damage had been done. Susan was, like, fully in love with him, and that emotional bond didn't disappear. And again, I don't know, like, the timeline logistics, But Susan kept seeing Felix, just not on a professional basis. Like, I think he would pick her up from school.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Ugh, I hate that.

[Corinne Vian]

15.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Because then you're like, how many more people could try to intervene?

[Corinne Vian]

I know. And also, Felix is still married. This relationship, romantic relationship continues. But Susan does graduate high school. She goes to college, and she does eventually seek a new therapist, which I'm glad. And Susan confides in this new therapist about her relationship with Felix, which is still ongoing, mind you. And he's still married with children.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

And this new therapist is like, this is not okay. Like, this is super dangerous. What do you mean, you're telling me your therapist is in love with you and you're in love with your therapist. So she breaks confidentiality and she contacts Felix's wife to tell her about the relationship. Which I kind of love the pettiness.

[Corinne Vian]

Right.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Of this, but I also wish she contacted the police. Yeah, but she tells Felix's wife of this relationship that he has been having with this teenager, Susan. And after learning of the affair, Felix's wife files for divorce. Which only means that Felix and Susan don't have to hide their relationship anymore. Right. They're not sneaking around. It's 1982 now. It's 10 years after meeting Felix for the first time in his therapist office And a now 50 year old Felix marries 25 year old Susan.

[Corinne Vian]

It breaks my heart cause I also think about all of these obstacles that are happening. Like Susan's mom pulls her out of therapy or as Susan probably perceives them as obstacles, but she's like, you don't understand. Like I'm in love with him. She's so dependent on him. Yeah, she was 15.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

It is tough because it's like she's clearly the victim here and she's been so emotionally manipulated. And it's like you see it in other cases too. I can't remember if it's from Russia or something, but like there was a teenage couple that were, they were both teenagers, but like the one guy threw acid on his girlfriend I think after like a breakup and she had really severe damage to her.

[Corinne Vian]

Why did he just have acid sitting around?

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Some sort of chemical or something, you know. Cause it was like, well, if I can't have you, no one can. But then she forgives him and they get married and it's just like that sort of dynamic in that relationship. It's abuse unfortunately is seen a lot where it's like no matter what anyone else tells you, you're like, no, you don't know my relationship. Everyone else is wrong. I'm right. No one knows what I'm feeling.

[Corinne Vian]

Yeah, no. And that's gonna come up a lot in this episode, like the cycle of abuse. But it also, and I don't condone kidnapping your own child or imprisoning them. But I do wish in this scenario I could be Susan's mom and just take 15 year old her, shake her and just trap her in the basement.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Shake your child and trap her in.

[Corinne Vian]

The basement and keep her away from Felix.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

It is tough cause it's like now she's 25, so there's not much you can do. Cause she's an adult. But for so much of that, she was under. Well, not a ton of it, but for three years of it, she was underage. And so there were so many times where it's like adults had known what was happening. And while maybe they couldn't have prevented Susan from still feeling that way, they could have done things to lock him up, to get his license revoked. Yeah, the divorce, like, how did that not come up in the divorce? Like, no one reported it. Lawyers involved.

[Corinne Vian]

But also, keep in mind, failures. I feel like Felix does have money. He's doing well for himself. He's a respected humor community. No.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Yeah, but that much money where you're buying off people like this, I. I.

[Corinne Vian]

Feel like he did have power and it worked in his favor. So either way, now 25 year old Susan marries Felix. And now that they're married, the dynamics don't just like, magically reset. If anything, that power imbalance is like very much still in place. And I think Felix wanted it. Like, that's in his favor. He wanted that to remain in place. But then they began a family of their own. And over the next few years, Susan gave birth to three children, all of them boys. Adam, Eli, and then the youngest, Gabriel.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

This is so dark for me to say, but I'm glad that he had boys.

[Corinne Vian]

I know. Oh, I hate that. But yes. Susan took the role of a stay at home mother. She raised her three sons while Felix continued to practice as a therapist. Still seeing adolescents.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Yep. Young girls. And soon Felix and Susan felt like they needed more space. And so Felix, like you were saying, he did have a sizable amount of money. He bought them a mansion, which was kind of less of a mansion and more like a compound.

[Corinne Vian]

There were like multiple houses, a pool. Like, it was massive.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Yeah. How do you get that much from being a therapist? Should we change our careers? We'll be the adolescent therapist. We'll keep everyone safe. So he bought a compound for the two of them in a wealthy town of Orinda. And there, Susan and Felix raised their children with every privilege that their income could afford. So all three boys went to private school. They all drove luxury cars. They were just very materially wealthy and fleshed their money around. But behind closed doors, that veneer of a perfect life all started to chip away at the edges.

[Corinne Vian]

Also, I picture them at family dinners or just like growing up. I remember asking my parents, like, how did you guys meet? Like, that's a natural question you ask your parents. Like, how did they answer that?

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Oh, my God.

[Corinne Vian]

And when friends and their social settings.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

If they don't think it's wrong, they probably just said it.

[Corinne Vian]

No, but I don't think they said that they met in the therapist's office. Like, I think they knew it was wrong.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

How did your parents meet?

[Corinne Vian]

College. How did your parents meet College?

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Yeah, my dad had a broken arm. My mom was. It was her first college party and she was at his fraternity house. He was a sophomore, she was a freshman.

[Corinne Vian]

That's cute.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

He walked up with a broken arm and said, you're a freshman, aren't you? Romance. But a normal meet cute and age appropriate. Yeah.

[Corinne Vian]

Anyway, so we know that there is a very clear power imbalance here. Felix is the one with the control. Susan's mental health was under his care. And as they settled into their new roles as husband and wife and mom and dad, that power play reared its ugly head once again. So now, all those years later, Susan was still very much under Felix's control and tensions were really starting to rise between the not so happy couple. And it wouldn't take long for something or someone to snap.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

What drives a person to kill? Is it uncontrollable rage?

[Corinne Vian]

Overwhelming fear?

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Unbearable jealousy fear? Or is it something deeper? Something in the darkest corners of our psyche?

[Corinne Vian]

Every Monday and Thursday, the Crime House Original Podcast Serial Killers and Murderous Minds dives deep into the minds of history's most chilling murderers. From infamous serial killers to ruthless cult leaders, deadly exes and terrifying spree killers. I'm Dr. Tristan Ingalls, a licensed forensic psychologist. Along with Vanessa Richardson's immersive storytelling full of high stakes twists and turns. In every episode of Serial Killers and Murderous Minds, I'll be providing expert analysis of the people involved, not just how they killed, but why.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Serial Killers and Murderous Minds is a Crime House Studios original. New episodes drop every Monday and Thursday. Follow wherever you get your podcasts. It feels like the fight always starts at the dinner table. Susan Polk sits across from her husband, her face beet red, tears running down her cheeks. Felix looks back at her, his eyes bemused, expectant, as if he's waiting for her to give in like she always does. Eli sits between his two brothers, unsure where to look. This isn't the first time that their mom has cried through dinner, and at this point they've lost count of how many times. It always starts the same way, though. Their mother suddenly accusing their father of something in the middle of a meal, and it's always without warning. And tonight's accusation is a bit of a doozy. Susan is shouting now, lashing out at Felix, insisting that she knows what he's been doing and that he doesn't trust her. He's paranoid. And finally, she makes the accusation that Felix has hired someone to follow her all over town. She said that she has seen the same car over and over again, trailing her. Eli looks to his brothers Adam and Gabriel, and then to his father, waiting for him to react. But he doesn't. As Susan shouts at him, Felix wipes his mouth with a cloth napkin, folds it, and sets it back down on his lap. He says nothing. Without their dad willing to take the heat, Eli tries to speak up. He and his older brother Adam are usually the ones to take charge in moments like this. Their little brother Gabriel isn't much help. He's only 14. He still really idolizes their mother, and he always takes her side, even when she's making wild accusations like this one. Eli, though he's older and just like his father, he is getting tired of these antics. Sternly, Eli tells his mom that what she's saying, it just simply could not be true. Nobody is following her. Dad is not paranoid. If anything, she is the one that sounds kind of crazy. Eli instantly regrets using that word. And sure enough, it triggers her. She begins yelling once again, she's not crazy. She knows what she saw. She's being gaslit by her whole family. Why don't they believe her? And Eli wants to disappear, but fortunately, his father steps in to back him up. He says, eli has a point. Susan does sound crazy. Felix continues, maybe she's so crazy that she needs serious help. The kind of help that only comes from inpatient care. Maybe someone should put her away for good. Maybe it should be him.

[Corinne Vian]

That whole scenario, it's also, like, triggering for me, because my family is nowhere near this, thank goodness. But they are also not a family to model anything after. Like, my biggest goal in life is to have a family that's nothing like my upbringing was like. But my parents used to have these major fights around the table like this, to the point where, like, my mom would get up from the table and, like, bawling her eyes out. And my dad would be like, she's just being dramatic. And I would get up and, like, go take care of my mom. Cause I was like, this is miserable.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

And to witness that as a child and, like, feel responsible for anyone else's emotions, or to just, like, hide your.

[Corinne Vian]

Own fear in that moment, no, it's so sad. And this is just an example of, like, one of the many arguments that persisted throughout the Polk home. So by the year 2000, this was constantly happening. And then they got worse into 2001, as Susan's sons would later recall. It was hard to exactly know who was the instigator between Susan and Felix. And even now, the boys are divided, which makes me so sad. But regardless of who started it, one thing was very, very clear. It's very clear to us too, that their marriage was not in a healthy place. It was tumultuous. And it was a tumultuous place for these kids to grow up in, because now they're also in this power imbalance where their dad is so strong willed and putting the mom down in front of all of them.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Well, and he also knows how to manipulate people, everyone. Yeah, he's basically been practicing that in his own practice for years.

[Corinne Vian]

For years.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Right.

[Corinne Vian]

But it's sad because, like, instead of seeing both of their parents as like equals in a parent child dynamic, there should be a power imbalance. Like, that is healthy. Parents should have more power over their children because that's. You're raising them. But Felix is establishing that actually their mom is lesser than all of them. So Susan is just like, truly being made to feel crazy. Right. There's a lot of internal disruption. And then also, like, I imagine, like, one kid might start to side with the dad and mistreat the mom, and then there's like, the other kid who has to take care of the mom.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Yeah. But like, the two oldest boys sided with Felix almost all the time. Gabriel, the one that's a child and the youngest, he was the one that seemed to have the most empathy for his mom.

[Corinne Vian]

That dynamic does change. And we'll talk about, like, at the end how people feel today. And there's a mixed bag.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

So things in this home and amongst the family, they are only getting worse. According to Felix's friends, the growing conflict only made him become colder towards his wife. He treated her outbursts and unfounded accusations as kind of like a study in mental illness, which is kind of messed up that he's like, treating his own wife as a case study.

[Corinne Vian]

No, this is so much more reminiscent of like late 1800s, early 1900s views on women. Like yellow wallpaper type of stories where men were like, oh, you're hysterical. Send you to the asylum. But this is 1980s, like early 2000s.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

For a moment, I was like, yeah, but the women in Marblehead, Massachusetts, had it so good when they got sent to the asylum, they would go to the seaside. I don't know what happened behind closed doors. I say they had a Good. They might not have.

[Corinne Vian]

They were making pottery, but they were.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Making pottery and, like, walking the beaches in Marblehead and getting, like, fresh sea air. And that was their treatment. And that sounded a lot lovelier than what a lot of other people experienced.

[Corinne Vian]

But this is the 2000s.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

This is the 2000s. And he's, like, amusing about her mental diagnoses, and he's trying to, like, come up with different things that she might.

[Corinne Vian]

Be and threatening to send her away constantly.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Therapy she could benefit from. It's so terrible. But despite his background in mental health and him threatening, he never gets her help, ever. So to him, theorizing about his wife's health was far more interesting than actually doing anything to help her. And this just isolated Susan even more.

[Corinne Vian]

Well, I also imagine that if she went to go see an actual professional, that therapist might help her realize the problem isn't her, It's Felix.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Well, and he didn't want that. From Felix's perspective, the only other time she's seen another therapist, that therapist called his wife and told his wife exactly what was going on.

[Corinne Vian]

Yeah, I'm just, like, picturing the word manipulation popping up with asterisks next to it and a little jingle. Because that's how it feels, as far as we know. Because this. The narrative that you painted, the picture you painted of Susan believing that she was being followed is something really that did happen. She thought Felix was following her and having her followed. We don't know. We have no way to verify if that ever actually happened. But the true issue here is that Susan was looking for reassurance from her husband. Like she wanted connection. And instead, he here is this man that made her all but dependent on him and is now withholding that love from her to keep his power and control over her. This is the cycle of abuse. Instead of offering reassurance to Susan, he's treating her as a symptom, a diagnosis, and he's reinforcing the role he established in her mind decades earlier. And that role is that Susan cannot trust her own mind. Felix is the only one who can show her the way.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Yep. So despite the fact that they're both adults now, Felix is pushing 70. Susan is 44. The power dynamic has never shifted in their relationship. During these fights, Felix would call his wife demeaning, infantilizing things like sick puppy, which around his children, he was basically teaching them that his mom couldn't be trusted and that she was lesser than them. She was just a little sick puppy. Like, we put her over here, and we're all in reality.

[Corinne Vian]

Yep.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Felix talked to Susan like she was a child, which maybe in his mind she always was because he did meet.

[Corinne Vian]

Her at 15 and in a way like her growing up was obstructed. So like, in a way she still is stuck there.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Being 15, she was groomed. She was groomed.

[Corinne Vian]

But as you can also tell, like there are now some cracks to this dynamic where Susan is actively standing up and trying to push against the authority that he is so ingrained in her. But it's not working. He immediately shuts her down again, calls her crazy, makes her feel small.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Well, she doesn't know how to have the conversation and how to confront her.

[Corinne Vian]

Right.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Or him. So every time she tries to do something, it ends up with her having a quote unquote outburst at the dinner table and ending in tears. So she looks crazy even though she's voicing things. She's trying so hard, often could be very reasonable. Yeah.

[Corinne Vian]

So she's trying to stand up for herself. He's making her feel crazy, makes her feel small again, which then sends her back to this like young little 15 year old girl who all she wants is to feel validation, to feel care, to feel loved. And then it causes more anxiety and self doubt in her. It's this terrible cycle that would inevitably cause cognitive dissonance for Susan where it's like on one hand she feels like Felix treats me like I have a disease, but then it's taken over by, oh well, Felix has authority over me and he's the only one who can help me. And those two feelings naturally, like would tear someone apart and make you feel trapped.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

And Felix essentially just kept Susan feeling really small their entire relationship. And he never made good on any of the promises to send her away or get her any help or anything like that, because maybe he didn't feel like he had to because she was super submissive. Right. Like he, he got to live his life normally outside of the house and Susan could not. Like, she felt like her entire life was under his control. He knew what was best for her. It was all under his discretion and he could do whatever he wanted to her. And when the only person you rely on is the person who is belittling you, it's only natural to feel very trapped, isolated, lost, completely alone. And she didn't really know how to escape these feelings, her husband and the unhealthy marriage. Yeah. So as you can imagine, Susan is just like mental health wise at a very terrible place. She can't trust her husband, her children have views of her that she doesn't feel comfortable with. And In January of 2001, after at least a year of suffering through these fights, Susan consumed an entire bottle of aspirin in an attempt to die by suicide. She did survive, but it's very easy to see how this kind of like, reinforced the toxic relationship. Susan's mentally ill, Felix is not, and he's in control of her and the family.

[Corinne Vian]

Whereas, like, in reality, she was just desperately trying to escape his control.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Right. And he didn't do anything to help her. He just wanted her to be mentally dependent on him. It was so clear that he, yeah, he didn't actually care about her well being.

[Corinne Vian]

But so then she comes out of this, she like survives this suicide attempt and now she's like more empowered and is like, glad she's alive. But now she's like, I want a divorce. But Felix doesn't like that. And I do want to say that this next piece of information comes from Susan herself, because we don't know Felix's side. But according to Susan, Felix tells her that marriage is a permanent bond and that their marriage was supposed to last forever.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

The irony. What are you saying, dude?

[Corinne Vian]

Who's really crazy here?

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Jeez. My God. It's like he doesn't. Does he forget that she knew he.

[Corinne Vian]

Was married before and that he's already been divorced?

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

That's so crazy. Yeah, he's crazy. He's crazy. Yeah. According to Susan, he would rather see her dead than have her divorce him. So if she tried to separate from him, she knew he would try to kill her. That's what she felt.

[Corinne Vian]

But apparently this didn't stop Susan from continuing with the divorce proceedings. She wanted out of this marriage. And then this is where things get really ugly. By now, both Eli and Adam had moved out of the house for college. They're older, and their 14 year old brother Gabriel is alone living at the house of the parents. According to Gabriel, Felix was not the only one making threats. Apparently Susan would openly talk about the way she would kill Felix around her 14 year old son.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

It breaks my heart who was the one that sided with her when he was younger too.

[Corinne Vian]

And she would talk about what the easiest way to kill Felix would be. Would it be to drown him, to drug him, to shoot him, like openly saying these things. And his dad is also making these threats as well. So it's like both of the parents are just openly talking about murdering one another.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Oh God. So messed up. And it's like they live in this mansion that's separated from everyone else. So it's like, who's here to help the kids? Yeah. It's so unfortunate. But unlike before, the issues between Felix and Susan did not stay behind closed doors. Multiple times throughout the year of 2001, both of them called the police to report domestic violence against one another. And when the cops arrived to the home, suddenly the stories would change and nothing would be like filed or everything would be dropped. Susan and Felix just wave the police away. They give an excuse. Everyone's emotional.

[Corinne Vian]

Right.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

And almost every time Susan and Felix would call 91 1, giving some sort of excuse as to why they didn't.

[Corinne Vian]

Need to worry about them again, cycle of abuse.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

And probably going back to what you were saying about like, they did have power because they did have money. If the police are arriving to a house that's like this giant mansion compound and the people are like, oh, actually it's okay. That call was nothing. We just got in a heated argument. The fact that they're just like walking away and being like, okay, we believe you. And no more investigation.

[Corinne Vian]

Legally, they can't do anything. It's two adults who are both saying to the police, separate the adults. You would, you would think so take.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

One of them in and then ask the other one questions.

[Corinne Vian]

Well, they would wave away the police almost every night. Except for one night during one of these blow ups, Susan started shouting at Felix and in a moment of fury, she slapped him across the face in front of the cops. So the police have to arrest her. They arrest Susan, they briefly keep her in a jail cell, and then Felix decides not to press charges. Susan's released and she returns home. Keep in mind they're going through a divorce currently as this is happening. So it is very clear they are not getting along. And I'm like, why didn't you guys separate? Why don't you live in different places? It's not healthy for you two to be together anymore. But they have a 14 year old son.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Well, and so they kind of lived separately, as separate as they could get at this point because Susan was living in the main house and Felix was living in the pool house. So yeah, they were living in separate places but like two steps away from one another. And Susan didn't want to leave the house because her kids were at the house and she wanted Felix to move out. But Felix was also the one making money and the one being able to afford the house. Susan didn't have a job, she didn't have savings. She didn't have anything. So she was truly entirely dependent on Felix. Yeah. So she Started to realize, like, okay, in our divorce, like, when we get divorced, I'm probably gonna lose the house. And she thought that she was probably gonna have to, like, sign over everything, start over with absolutely nothing. And so, with this in mind, in 2002, before any decision was made about the house, Susan moved out. And she set her sights on a new life in Montana. And she wanted to get custody of their youngest son, Gabriel, because he was the only one that was underage at this point. Felix agreed to pay her a sizable monthly stipend to cover child support and alimony, giving her at least some semblance of security.

[Corinne Vian]

That's what he told her.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Yeah, of course.

[Corinne Vian]

But when Susan.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

How does he let her go so freely all of a sudden?

[Corinne Vian]

Nope. So Susan's in Montana, and the second she leaves, Felix calls up his lawyer and changes that agreement that he had made with Susan because he did not want her to have anything, and he knew he could get everything. So on October 11, 2002, Felix was actually granted full custody of Gabriel, along with total ownership of the house. And slashed the alimony. He agreed to pay Susan by more than half.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

It's kind of world shattering for her.

[Corinne Vian]

Yeah.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

It's like he tried to wait for her to go somewhere else and then, like, abandon her there. Be like, oh, you're screwed. Try to survive without me. Yeah. So messed up. So when Susan heard the news, she was not happy. And the same day, she called Felix from Montana, and her rage was practically, like, seeping through the phone. She screamed every insult that she could at him. And Susan was already planning on going back to the house in Orinda to pick up her belongings in the next few days. So she told Felix the following. That when she arrived, she was going to kill him for what he did to her. The pool house sits at the edge of the property. Felix has been staying there for weeks, even after Susan moved out. And tonight, it's quiet and dark. As Susan approaches, she crosses the manicured lawn without really thinking about how she got there. Her chest is tight. Her thoughts are scattered. She's furious, and she wants answers. Felix made her a promise, and then he took everything from her. Susan's heart aches as she remembers that at this very moment, Felix has made it so that she doesn't have custody of her children. She grits her teeth in pain, and she looks at her hand. In it, she grips a canister of pepper spray. It makes her feel safe, even if she doesn't plan to use it. She steadies herself before opening the door. To the pool house. And by the look on Felix's face, she has just surprised him. Susan doesn't give him any time to get his bearings. She lays into him, screaming about his betrayal. How dare he take Gabriel away from her? How could he slash her alimony like that? How is she going to survive? Accusations just spill out of her mouth. The past, the countless betrayals, Things she's never stopped carrying. Some of it's grounded in reality, some of it isn't. But in this moment, it all feels true to her. With every word, Felix's body grows more and more tense with rage. And finally, in a burst of fury, he lunges at her. Susan fumbles for her pepper spray and sprays it in his face, but it doesn't stop him. Felix grabs her by her hair, throws her down hard. She hits the ground, scrambling, and he continues to hit and scratch her, overpowering her once more. She shouts and thrashes, trying to flee. And through the chaos, Susan sees a glint of a knife. It's in Felix's hand. She screams, wriggling her body in a desperate attempt to get away from him. She manages to get a leg free and kicks as hard as she can into Felix's crotch, sending Felix and the knife to the floor. As Felix writhes in pain, Susan darts for the knife. She grabs it, but Felix is quick. He's on top of her again, punching her and trying to snatch the weapon away from her. He seems desperate, maybe even scared. Susan has never seen him like this before. Suddenly, she's the one with the power now. She has the weapon, and she's going to use it. She thrusts the knife into Felix's side, and then again and again and again. And she doesn't stop until he's dead.

[Corinne Vian]

And this is how Susan would eventually recall the events of October 13, 2002, while on trial. But we don't know for sure what actually happened on that evening.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Right.

[Corinne Vian]

But what we do know is that after Felix was dead, Susan did not call 911. She did not move the body. She simply returned to the main house, washed the blood off of herself, went to bed, woke up the next morning, had breakfast with her son, and continued about her day. After her son left the house, Susan then tried to cover her track. She cleaned blood off her clothes. She washed and hid the knife that she had used. And then she drove Felix's car out to a train station parking lot and left it there. So there's really no telling of how long Susan was planning to not tell anyone anything, probably hoping that it would Just disappear. Right. Not be a problem anymore. Also, there is, like, record that Felix, after the call he had with her in Montana when she was like, fuming, and he was like, I'm going to.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Come back and kill you.

[Corinne Vian]

Felix did call the police and was like, I'm worried. But the police were like, well, she's not there. There's nothing we can really do, but.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

She'S coming in a couple days. Ooh.

[Corinne Vian]

And it took a little less than 24 hours to find Felix's body.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Yeah. So her son Gabriel noticed that she was acting a bit strangely. And he said that she seemed distracted, distant, like her mind was totally somewhere else. And it only got worse later that night. So Gabriel, he was supposed to go to a San Francisco Giants game with his dad, but he couldn't find Felix anywhere. So he asks Susan, his mom, where Felix could be. And Susan's face just went white. Her eyes fluttered, her voice cracked. She said she had no idea where Felix was. But Gabriel's like, oh, my God, my mom is lying. Something happened. And so this is when he decided that he needed to go searching for his dad. He was going to snoop around. Previously, his dad had been living in the pool house. So on the evening of October 14, 2002, Gabriel Polk walked to the pool house to search for his father. But when he stepped inside, Gabriel discovered a horrific crime scene.

[Corinne Vian]

We cannot imagine. No.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

And like, she let him. She let her child find his father.

[Corinne Vian]

Murdered a 15 year old child finding the bloody, brutalized corpse of his own father. And like, I don't care what happened prior to this. I don't like it doesn't matter how terrible Susan and Felix were to one another or Felix screamed her. No child should ever have to walk into something like that. No, ever.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

It is terrible.

[Corinne Vian]

I can't even imagine. So Gabriel didn't even care what his mom did. He calls 911 immediately and dispatcher answered the call. When the dispatcher asked what the emergency was, Gabriel very clearly stated what he believed happened. He said that his mom had just killed his dad. So he knew upon finding his body.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

And when the cops showed up to the house, Susan acted completely surprised. She claimed she had no idea where he could be. She had no idea what they would want from her. And the officers explained to her that According to the 911 call, her husband was dead. And Susan didn't show any reaction to that. When one of the police officers told her that her son Gabriel is the one who found the body, she then screamed out, oh, my God. And after that Police searched the house and found Felix in the pool house exactly where Gabriel had found him. And they arrested Susan for the murder.

[Corinne Vian]

I mean, I do believe Susan was probably in shock in some way.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Yeah.

[Corinne Vian]

But she also was trying to, like, pretend everything was fine. For two days after being arrested. She denies that she had anything to do with her husband's death. But eventually her story does change and she does finally confess to killing Felix, but she insists that it was self defense. So she claims, like you said in the narrative, that Felix actually attacked her, that he had the knife, she was able to wrestle it away from him, and then in self defense, killed him. Which is the argument that her defense attorney planned to make. But as the trial approached, a million questions still hung in the air. If it was self defense, why did she not call the police afterwards? If it was self defense, why did she tamper with evidence? Why did she move Felix's car? And again, if it's self defense, why did she have no injuries as if she fought with a knife? Yeah, she had surface level cuts and scrapes, but nothing serious. And all of these questions were going to be addressed at her trial, which was set to start in 2004. But the proceedings were a total circus. Like the trial itself is almost as wild as this entire case.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Susan was being charged with the first degree murder of her husband, Felix. The prosecution planned to argue that she killed Felix for financial reasons and as revenge for him cutting her off. They also wanted to show that Susan was mentally unwell, that she was delusional. And Susan's fate hung in the balance. But some of the decisions that she made were a bit erratic. First, she wanted to defend herself, but was persuaded to hire legal counsel. She hired and fired multiple lawyers before landing on the well respected defense attorney named Daniel Horowitz.

[Corinne Vian]

I also think it's crazy and also sad. Poor choice of words. But the, the prosecution's whole plan was to show that Susan was mentally unwell and delusional, which is everything Felix was doing her whole relationship.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Which in a way, like if you were on that team, it's almost not to be like cynical or manipulative again, but that is kind of a good defense for them because that's her trigger. So she might act erratically and do things to prove that.

[Corinne Vian]

Right. But the prosecution was trying to say that's why she murdered him for that she was crazy.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Right.

[Corinne Vian]

So the trial was scheduled for January 2004, but just before, I think it was like a day before the trial was supposed to start. And this is devastating, but Also wild. Daniel Horowitz, Susan's lawyer. Daniel's wife was murdered. So the judge declares a mistrial so that Horowitz can deal with this tragedy. And that story in itself is like a whole other case where it was. It ended up being a teenage killer in a satanic worship situation. But what matters is that the trial is pushed back. And then Susan, who already was not wanting to trust a lawyer, who already has trust issues and already wanted to defend herself, starts to, like, oh, this is a sign that I shouldn't have a lawyer. And then she starts to, like, think that Daniel actually killed his wife. She starts to really push back any representation, and she realizes the only person she can depend on is her.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Which is unfortunate that this happened for her, because the whole thing is for her to try to, like, prove that she was not this crazy person who murdered him. It was like, self defense, and he was the one that was abusing her. But if we look at other people in the past who've done this same exact move, where they're like, I'm choosing to defend myself.

[Corinne Vian]

Yeah.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Ted Bundy, which the verdict was guilty. He was convicted and sentenced to death. Green River Killer. Judges intervened, and he was forced to. To have professional counsel and many others. But, like, point is, statistically, it does not work in the person's favor. No.

[Corinne Vian]

I do also want to say, like, in understanding Susan, it's very clear she had snapped to a point where she's sick of being a puppet. She's sick of being controlled by men. She desperately wants to defend herself. Like, that was what she was trying to do standing up.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

She's not a sad puppy anymore.

[Corinne Vian]

Yeah. But she took it to a point where it didn't work in her favor. It makes sense that she has trust issues, but, yeah, defending herself didn't quite work in her favor. And there were some moments where Susan argued her case with shocking clever ways. Like, people were like, oh, like maybe there's a chance. Like, for example, she argued that Felix didn't actually die from 27 stab wounds, but from a heart attack. And a friend, the pathologist, came up on the stand to back that up. But then on the flip side, it started to unravel. Like in other parts where she was defending herself. And it really unraveled when the court called the star witnesses in the case.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Her children, all three boys, who at this point are now adults. They have to go on the witness stand and look their mother in the eyes. Both Gabriel and Adam served as witnesses for the prosecution, while the middle son, Eli Remained the one child who was called on behalf of the defense. It's like you were saying, the dynamics did change.

[Corinne Vian]

I mean, I can't imagine Gabriel found his dad's body. I would not be able to side with my mom.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

So all of this is so devastating to watch and like, can't even imagine what happened to be able to process that for any of these boys. But while she questioned her sons, Susan got really emotional. She was openly crying. She was asking them about their upbringing. To Gabriel especially, Susan made a show of trying to discredit him, Pulling up random memories of his childhood in order to show that he was untrustworthy.

[Corinne Vian]

Which is another reason that she never should have defended herself, because that shouldn't be her job, shouldn't have to stand up there and like, belittle her son.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Right.

[Corinne Vian]

For herself.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

It's so horrible.

[Corinne Vian]

Yeah.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

But Gabriel remained unemotional through this entire thing. She asked if he was a happy child, and he coldly responded that he had, quote, moments of happiness. He also regularly referred to October 13, 2002 as, quote, the night you murdered dad.

[Corinne Vian]

Oh. Which as a jury, can you imagine how powerful and like, devastating that is to hear?

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

The son, Adam, was no gentler during his time on the stand. He described his mom as being evil and notably cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. The press went wild with this line specifically. And even the judge himself laughed when Adam said this.

[Corinne Vian]

Yeah.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

In response to that moment, Susan just like, shook her head. She feigned the tone of disappointment as a mother. And she asked Adam where he learned to lie so well.

[Corinne Vian]

And like you said, Eli was the only son who tried to convince the jury that his mom was innocent. He claimed that Susan was never the aggressor, that Felix was violent and short tempered. And he said there was no question in his mind that his mother had acted out of self defense. But this was just one small moment amongst like a much bigger case that it kind of got buried beneath all the other bizarre acts by Susan. But towards the end of the trial, Susan declared that she had one more witness to call to the stand herself. And this is also something that lawyers encourage people to not do. And her story was harrowing and brutal as she recalled all the ways that Felix coerced her. But then she also started making up a lot of claims. Like she said that Felix was a satanist, that he was a spy, that he brainwashed her children. So, like, she's kind of not making herself reliable.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Right.

[Corinne Vian]

By accident.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Which, like, maybe she wasn't. She first saw Felix for help with anxiety. I know, and then she got in this like, terrible situation where of course her mental health is going to decline. And of course, without getting the help that you need, like, perhaps she did have a lot going on. It's shitty because then she becomes the unreliable narrator in her own story where she is the victim and she doesn't.

[Corinne Vian]

Have an actual attorney to help, like, drive the narrative. She's just like, letting everything out. She even makes a claim that she had a dream that was predicting the 911 attacks, but that Felix prevented her from going to the police. So she's like adding all of these details that are. If I were a lawyer, I'd be like, we're not gonna talk about this.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Yeah, yeah.

[Corinne Vian]

This is unrelated.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

You can journal about that later after everything is over.

[Corinne Vian]

And unfortunately, in the end, Susan was found guilty. After a long deliberation, the jury decided to lower her conviction from first degree murder to second degree because they didn't think the killing was premeditated. But they also didn't buy the self defense argument. So for this crime, Susan was sentenced to serve 16 years to life behind bars. Susan almost immediately filed for an appeal, which was denied.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

In 2019, Susan was finally eligible for parole, but that didn't go well either. She was actually removed from her parole hearing for being disruptive because apparently she wouldn't stop talking over some of the members of the board.

[Corinne Vian]

She kind of like accused members of the board of being in on a conspiracy, and she was rude to them and they were all kind of like, you're not helping yourself yet.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

I know. I feel so bad for her.

[Corinne Vian]

Me too.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

She needs help and she's still a victim, even despite everything that happened. I know. So now Susan won't be eligible for another parole hearing until May of 2029. So she's got a few more years.

[Corinne Vian]

It's so sad because again, I'm not a lawyer in any way, but, like, I can see this case and I could be like, if she had the proper defense, they could have gotten her off. Like, they really could have leaned into how he groomed her and like, he's.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

The one that broke her.

[Corinne Vian]

It makes me think of the Menendez brothers case. I was thinking that too. I always.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Yeah, I was thinking about it during this, but at the same time, like, they weren't showing mental illness in court. Like, they had a lot of clarity. Like, that is the case that pisses me off the most because those two boys should not be in jail because.

[Corinne Vian]

Of the abuse that they faced. But there's not a ton of evidence of the abuse, Whereas here we have hard evidence. I really do believe that given the right defense, this case would have played out differently.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Although, like, do we have hard evidence? Because we have.

[Corinne Vian]

She's 15, her mom intervened, the other therapist intervened.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

But then you have decades of two of the three kids saying that she's doing all this stuff.

[Corinne Vian]

Yeah.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

So you've like, two things against a hundred other things that the boys are doing.

[Corinne Vian]

Take me back in time. I have no law degree, but I will defend Susan Pole.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

It's hard. This is why I feel the same way about the Menendez brothers, where you know what happened.

[Corinne Vian]

Yeah. Or even she could have gotten a lesser sentence. And in no way are we condoning murder, because murder is absolutely wrong. But I also think of the psychological ramifications here and everything that led Susan to where she was like, she felt trapped, she felt stuck.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

And my God, like, what help is being offered to those boys who also lived through that and through 20 some years of watching their father berate their mother. It's a sad case. So at the end of the day, two things are true. Susan Polk did kill Felix Polk. That was wrong. But she was also a victim of an equally egregious act. Felix Polk took advantage of Susan. She was just 15 years old, just a girl seeking help for anxiety and tools to cope with life. But instead, he groomed her into this perfect patient. And if he wanted to help her, he would have. He could have. If he wanted her to feel crazy, he knew exactly what buttons to push. Susan's mental health was his domain. For better or more often, for worse.

[Corinne Vian]

Yeah. The cycle of abuse that was so toxic and long lasting that it threatened to destroy everything in its path. And in the end, as we know, that's exactly what happened. One death, but multiple lives left completely, completely changed. Relationships destroyed. Trust completely obliterated. Brothers against brothers, mother against her sons. So, yes, Susan Polk is a killer, but she is also a victim. She was preyed upon by a man that she later then killed. And again, nothing excuses that murder. But it is one of those stories that just makes you wonder what justice really looks like. And if there is justice in a case like this, it makes me sad.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

I know. True crime is sad.

[Corinne Vian]

It is. Thank you all for listening. We're your hosts, Sabrina d' Anaroga and Corinne Bien. Join us next Tuesday for another peek inside another episode of Crimes of Passion. And if there are any cases you want us to cover, like the McDonald's coffee or the Menendez brothers.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Oh, I already in my mind I came up with a new season and a bunch of cases that I want us to do like after reading through this.

[Corinne Vian]

So yeah, let us know in the comments. We want to hear what you have to say here at Crime House. We want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you liked what you heard today, reach out on all social media rimehouse.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Don't forget to rate, review and follow crimes of Wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference. Close your eyes, exhale, feel your body.

[Corinne Vian]

Relax and let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh my gosh, they're so fast.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

And breathe. Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order.

[Corinne Vian]

Oh, sorry. Namaste.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order. 1-800-contacts. What drives a person to murder?

[Corinne Vian]

Find out from a licensed forensic psychologist.

[Sabrina d'Anarroga]

On Serial Killers and Murderous Minds, a Crime House original podcast. New episodes drop every Monday and Thursday. Follow wherever you get your podcasts.