Vanessa Richardson (3:35)

And as always, we'll be asking the question, what makes a kill?

Dr. Tristan Engels (3:44)

Real Skin Results Start with one daily

Vanessa Richardson (3:46)

ritual Meet daily Microfoliant from Dermalogica.

Dr. Tristan Engels (3:49)

This iconic exfoliating powder activates with water to gently polish away dullness and uneven texture. It leaves skin instantly smoother and more luminous while supporting your skin barrier. Formulated with professional expertise to deliver visible

Vanessa Richardson (4:02)

results daily, even on sensitive skin.

Dr. Tristan Engels (4:05)

Discover your healthiest skin today. Visit dermalogica.com and use code Smooth at checkout for an exclusive gift with your $65 purchase.

Vanessa Richardson (4:14)

Par les tu francais habla sepanol parle Italiano. If you've used Babbel, you would Babbel's conversation based technique teaches you useful words

Dr. Tristan Engels (4:21)

and phrases to get you speaking quickly

Vanessa Richardson (4:23)

about the things you actually talk about

Dr. Tristan Engels (4:24)

in the real world.

Vanessa Richardson (4:25)

With lessons handcrafted by over 200 language experts and voiced by real native speakers, Babbel is like having a private tutor in your pocket. Start speaking with Babbel today. Get up to 55% off your Babbel

Dr. Tristan Engels (4:36)

subscription right now at Babbel.com listen spelled

Vanessa Richardson (4:39)

B A B-B-E-L.com listen rules and restrictions may apply. In the spring of 1989, 29 year old FBI agent Mark Putnam, his wife Kathy, and their two kids packed their bags and left Pikeville, Kentucky. The small mountain town was home to Mark's first assignment, and for two years he and Kathy had struggled to adjust to their life there, which felt lonely and isolated. Things only got worse when rumors swirled that Mark was having an affair with his informant, 27 year old Susan Smith. Like many from the area, Susan grew up poor. She'd initially agreed to pass on information about her roommate, an infamous bank robber, in exchange for money, but she kept visiting Mark's office after she developed feelings for him. Susan had also developed somewhat of a friendship with Kathy, who tried to help Susan through her battle with alcoholism and addiction. And when the rumors of Susan and Mark's affair reached Kathy's ears, she trusted that none of it was true. And it wasn't, at least not at first. But in late 1988, they slept together for the first time. They continued their affair for the next two weeks until Mark called it off. He was granted a work transfer to Miami and he left Pikeville without saying goodbye to Susan. However, In April of 1989, she called him to deliver some shocking news. She was pregnant and the baby was his.

Dr. Tristan Engels (6:12)

Just when he thought he'd escaped a scandal, he was Faced with the ultimate one. And this time it came with evidence that he couldn't dispute. A pregnancy can't be explained away or minimized or managed quietly the way a rumor can. Mark had built his life around control, discipline, and reputation. And now he was facing something that stripped him of all three at once. That likely triggered panic. Not just fear of the consequences, but fear of threat to his identity. And this is especially destabilizing for someone like Mark because, because of his history, when he's faced setbacks before, like being disqualified from the FBI or nearly losing his case against cat eyes, he's always managed to recover and come out on top. But this is different. This wasn't negotiable. It was an unexpected deviation from the pattern that he'd relied on. And when someone wired this way encounters a threat they can't outmaneuver, that's often when desperation sets in, and that's when judgment is affected, more so than it already has been.

Vanessa Richardson (7:14)

Since Mark placed so much value in being a high achiever for his whole life, how do you think he would have handled the shock of this news? Would someone like him be able to face the fact that these were the consequences of his own actions?

Dr. Tristan Engels (7:26)

So he would have handled it as a threat? I think. And I think given what we know about him, he would have also viewed it as a failure. And high achievers tend to equate failure with weakness, which is intolerable because failure is the same as losing. And like I mentioned, Mark was accustomed to setbacks being temporary and solvable through negotiation or control. Because he's less likely to integrate the idea that his own choices created this outcome, he's more likely to shift into crisis mode, meaning he's less focused on responsibility and more on preserving a version of himself that he can live with.

Vanessa Richardson (8:03)

Well, when Mark got the news, he told Susan that when he returned to Pikeville in a couple of months to wrap up one of his old cases, they could get together to talk. She was excited to see him and was hopeful that he'd choose to be with her and raise their baby. But in reality, Mark had totally different ideas. He'd always heard about Susan's reputation for being, quote, unquote, promiscuous, and he was skeptical that the baby was actually his. However, instead of expressing his doubts to Susan, he completely ignored her. He arrived in Pikeville in June of 1989, and he was scheduled to be there for three weeks. Susan waited by the phone, but Mark never called. She was getting desperate, so she went to see Mark's former partner, Ronald Poole. Ronald was assigned to Pikeville to investigate drug related cases. Mark had introduced them. He thought Susan could give Ronald useful intel like she'd done for him. What Mark didn't know was that while he and Susan had become embroiled in their affair, Ronald was developing feelings for her as well. Ronald knew all along that Susan had eyes for Mark, and he resented Mark for it. Now, as Susan tried desperately to get Mark back into her life, she turned to Ronald for help. She showed him her positive pregnancy test and told him the baby was Mark's. Seemingly consumed with jealousy, Ronald wanted to get back at Mark. So he not only told Susan which motel Mark was staying at while he was in town, but he booked her a room there, too. He reserved Susan's room for a few days, plenty of time for her to find Mark and confront him. A few days into Mark's trip, Susan knocked on his door. When he opened up, he found her completely in shambles. She was emotional and, according to him, had drugs in her system. But something else stuck out to Mark, too. If Susan was pregnant with his baby, she should have been about five months along. Susan had a small frame, so Mark thought she should be showing. However, she didn't look pregnant at all, according to Mark. As his skepticism grew, Susan begged through tears for them to talk. So he invited her in. Susan then unloaded about the dark turn her life had taken since he'd left. She told him her substance abuse was worse than ever and that people in town were after her now that they knew she was an FBI informant. She told him how much she missed him and needed him and said that she wanted her pregnancy to Mark, a new chapter for them. Mark brought up the idea of terminating her pregnancy, but Susan refused. She begged Mark to leave his old life behind and run away with her. Mark tried to stay calm as he told Susan that simply wouldn't happen. He was staying with Kathy and their kids, and once this trip was over, he was never coming back to Pikeville. Susan couldn't believe what she was hearing. She'd been hoping to be swept off her feet, and instead she was being swept under the rug. She told Mark that she was going to go to Miami and make sure he'd never forget about her. At that point, Mark ended the conversation. He said he needed to focus on work, but they could talk later. That got Susan to calm down. Before she left Mark's room, she asked if she could borrow some clothes. She said she hadn't packed enough of her own. Mark lent her a pair of his shorts, Anything to get her out of his hair. Then she left. Over the next few days, Mark did his best to avoid Susan. But on June 8, she showed up at his door again. She was even more upset than before and demanded answers about their future. Mark tried to reason with her. He offered to take a paternity test and said if the baby was his, he and Kathy could raise it. But that idea only made Susan angrier. She started yelling at Mark, and he got worried that someone would hear the commotion. He didn't want her drawing any attention, so he suggested they go for a drive. Susan agreed, and they got into his rental car. As he drove through the winding mountain roads, they continued to argue. Then, according to Mark, Susan got physical. She completely lost her temper and lunged at him from the passenger seat. She started slapping him so hard he couldn't focus on the road. So he pulled onto a quiet, dark turnoff. From there, according to him, things escalated quickly. Susan allegedly kept attacking Mark, and finally he snapped back. He hit her in the face, and then, with his eyes closed, he grabbed her by the throat and started to squeeze as he begged her to calm down. Moments later, Susan went quiet and Mark let go. He opened his eyes and saw that Susan was slumped over in her seat. He said her name, and she didn't answer. So he shook her gently, but she was still unresponsive. Then he realized she wasn't breathing. He kept shaking her and saying her name, but Susan wouldn't wake up. And when he checked her pulse, Mark made the horrifying realization that Susan Smith was dead and he had killed her.

Dr. Tristan Engels (13:23)

This is Mark's account of what happened, that Susan began attacking him unprovoked, and he snapped and strangled her. But I would argue that this seems more likely premeditated than not. Because if we zoom out for a moment and consider everything we know about Mark so far from episode one and up until this point, this looks much more like escalation. After all other control or negotiation strategies had failed, Mark didn't lose control in a random setting. He put Susan in his car. He drove her into an isolated, winding mountain road late at night, away from witnesses. That is significant and that's not accidental. To me, that suggests anticipation and not surprise. Up until this point, Mark had been trying to negotiate his way out of the problem through minimization and containment. Things he is accustomed to working for him. But they weren't working, and so therefore, Susan was still a threat. The pregnancy, to his knowledge, still existed. The exposure of that pregnancy was still looming over him. And that's why I don't think this is a situation where Mark snapped, because that implies a loss of agency. Instead, this is goal directed behavior under pressure. He chose the location, he controlled the movement. He created a condition where no one could intervene. And that's someone who sees no acceptable outcome except elimination of the threat. Circling back to what we know about his personality structure, psychologically, this fits with someone who does not tolerate losing or shame or exposure. And when all other options are exhausted, violence can then become the final method of control. Not because he was overwhelmed emotionally in that moment, but because he was out of moves.

Vanessa Richardson (15:12)

Mark sat in the darkness of his rental car trying to process what he'd just done. Panic set in, and he realized there was no coming back from what he'd done. He couldn't live with himself. Mark opened his glove compartment and reached for his gun, but it wasn't there. He'd apparently left it back at the motel.

Dr. Tristan Engels (15:30)

I don't find that claim credible. If he truly believed there was a gun in the glove compartment, he likely would have reached for that instead of strangling Susan. Not after the fact. This reads less like remorse and more like narrative repair. It's impression management rather than truth.

Vanessa Richardson (15:45)

Instead, Mark did the only other thing he could think of. He moved Susan's body to the trunk of the car. As he tucked her limbs inside, the reality of what he was doing hit him so hard he vomited. He pulled himself together, then got back into the driver's seat and drove back to his motel. Once he was back in his room, Mark looked at himself in the mirror and began taking inventory. He looked like he'd been in a fight. His face was scratched and his hands were cut.

Dr. Tristan Engels (16:14)

Defensive wounds like that are very common in strangulation cases. They're far more consistent with a victim fighting for their life than with an unprovoked attack on him.

Vanessa Richardson (16:23)

He knew he needed a cover story to tell his colleagues because of those attack marks. When he met with them the next morning, he told them he'd hurt his hand while doing some work in his garage. Though the rest of the day, Mark acted like nothing was wrong. But once he headed back to the motel, he knew he needed to do something about Susan's remains before decomposition set in. That night, Mark drove out to a secluded area on the outskirts of Pikeville. He pulled onto an old mining road and carried Susan's body to the edge of an overgrown ravine. He laid her body on the ground. Then he crouched next to her, touched her face, and told her he was Sorry.

Dr. Tristan Engels (17:04)

So apologizing in this way can relieve internal discomfort and allow him to acknowledge harm without accepting any real consequences. He has a pattern of poor boundaries and self preservation. He's not once turned himself in or held himself accountable for any past transgressions because he can't talk, tolerate failure or losing. So why would he do that now when he still has a chance of getting away with it? Turning himself in would mean surrendering control, destroying the career he fought for, and publicly becoming the person he can't tolerate being. So instead, when he still has a chance, he stays in the middle ground, expressing regret while avoiding consequences. He's not devoid of conscience, but his need to protect himself is stronger than his capacity to fully own what he's done.

Vanessa Richardson (17:51)

What does it say about him that he spent his whole career fighting for justice, but seems like he views himself as above the law? Does this connect back to the fact that he had an affair with an informant in the first place?

Dr. Tristan Engels (18:02)

I think this suggests that there's a moral split because his career choice reflects a strong identification with justice, but specifically justice as he defines it. Over time, that can evolve into a belief that the rules are for other people and he's only there to enforce them. With that, you start seeing yourself as the exception rather than the subject of the law. This absolutely does connect back to the affair because he justified crossing professional boundaries because he believed he could manage it, he could contain it, and ultimately still serve the, quote, greater good. That's entitlement. This is what happens when identity fuses with authority. This fusion is sadly too common. And while not everyone ends up escalating to the degree Mark has, when they do, they end up abusing that power and other harmful ways.

Vanessa Richardson (18:53)

Well, after disposing of Susan's body, Mark tried to move on as if nothing had happened. He drove back to his motel where he called Kathy and chatted with her and the kids about his day like everything was completely normal. But he couldn't keep up his act for long. And as Mark started to crumble under the pressure, people took notice. Until pretty soon his world was falling apart. A year from today, what would your dream private practice look like? Would you spend less time chasing claims or only working with clients who value your skill set? What if you had a network to reach out to for questions or free continuing education?

Dr. Tristan Engels (19:38)

What if you had more time for yourself? Alma empowers you you to confidently accept

Vanessa Richardson (19:44)

insurance backed by an all in one EHR that simplifies scheduling, documentation and day

Dr. Tristan Engels (19:50)

to day practice operations with a network

Vanessa Richardson (19:52)

of engaged providers and free CE resources.

Dr. Tristan Engels (19:55)

ALMA makes it easy for you to

Vanessa Richardson (19:57)

build the practice of your dreams on your terms. Alma believes that when therapists get the

Dr. Tristan Engels (20:02)

support they need, mental health care gets better for everyone. Learn more about alma@helloalma.com your dream practice

Vanessa Richardson (20:11)

is closer than you think.

Dr. Tristan Engels (20:13)

Get started now@hello alma.com get started.

Vanessa Richardson (20:23)

This episode is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. Whether you love true crime or comedy, celebrity interviews or news, you call the shots on what's in your podcast queue. And guess what? Now you can call them on your auto insurance too. With the name your price tool from Progressive, it works just the way it sounds. You tell Progressive how much you want to pay for car insurance and they'll show you coverage options that fit your budget. Get your quote today@progressive.com to join the over 28 million drivers who trust Progressive, Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match limited by state law In June of 1989, Mark Putnam was itching to get out of pikeville. But the 29 year old FBI agent had to stay there for several more days while he wrapped up his case. And no matter how hard he tried to pretend everything was okay, he couldn't shake the feeling that someone was going to realize that he'd killed Susan Smith and disposed of her body. Mark knew it was only a matter of time before people in town noticed Susan was missing, and he was right. However, it wasn't Susan's family who raised the alarm, or any of the locals. It was Mark's former partner, Ronald Poole. Ronald had been using Susan as an informant in the drug cases he was investigating. The two of them spoke on a regular basis. Not only that, but Ronald had developed feelings for Susan, so it didn't take him long to notice her absence. Ronald also couldn't help but notice that Susan went off the grid shortly after Mark arrived in town, and shortly after Ronald had sent her to Mark's hotel. Now Ronald wondered if Mark was behind her sudden disappearance. He confronted Mark and asked him if he'd seen Susan, but Mark said no. He pointed out that Susan had a severe drug and alcohol problem, so it wasn't unusual for her to break contact. Sometimes Ronald seemed to take him at his word, but Mark knew he still wasn't in the clear. His rental car was now a crime scene. He had to get rid of it. As soon as he got a break from his case, he scrubbed it down, then drove 100 miles to another rental shop to swap it out. Three days later, he took things a step further. He knew it was only a matter of time before someone found Susan's body, and he needed to get ahead of the narrative. So Mark called Susan's sister Shelby and casually asked if she'd heard from her. Shelby immediately sounded worried, but also annoyed at Mark's sudden interest in Susan. Shelby didn't know Mark well personally, but she'd heard enough from Susan to believe that he didn't actually care about her. Mark noticed the tone of her voice, so he tried his best to sound concerned about Susan. He even suggested that Shelby should file a missing person report. Then, to really cement his story, he called the state police himself to tell them about Susan's disappearance. He told them she'd been planning to go to her sister's place about 45 minutes from Pikeville. And that wasn't all. He also said she was likely hoping to score some drugs along the way.

Dr. Tristan Engels (23:30)

This is active narrative control. Again, it's another pattern of strategic lies. He's inserting himself early because the first story told often becomes the anchor story. So by calling Susan's sister, he's testing the emotional temperature. He's gathering information while also planting the idea that he's concerned. Then by calling state authorities himself, he's trying to inoculate himself against suspicion. People tend to assume that those who voluntarily involve law enforcement are less likely to be guilty, so he's exploiting that assumption. What's especially telling is that he doesn't keep himself on the periphery. He places himself at the center of the disappearance. He's intending to reflect confidence. And then there's the lie about drugs. That's not incidental. It subtly devalues Susan and reframes her disappearance as risky, unstable, or self inflicted. That shifts attention away from him and onto her choices, which is character assassination and an exploitation of her vulnerabilities. Again, studied his opponent. Considering all of this, it reflects entitlement, impression management again, and a belief that he can outmaneuver the very system that he serves. But what stands out to me is even though I know he's in Pikeville right now, why are you thinking about your informant? If you've transferred to another office in another state, that chapter should be closed. And I know he's been approached. I know questions have been asked of him. But if you're no longer there, if you're no longer working there, that's something that would raise alarms to me. If I was working at the FBI and I was brought into this, I would be asking that question.

Vanessa Richardson (25:12)

Do you think there might have been a part of Mark that Maybe wanted to get caught.

Dr. Tristan Engels (25:17)

Of course it's possible. I think that's certainly a probability. But his actions don't really support the idea that he wanted to be caught. What they reflect and said is like psychological strain and a desperate attempt to stay ahead of the story. With that said, there is something revealing about how risky and unnecessary his actions are, like calling Susan's sister and then the police. I think he's under a lot of intense pressure from managing his lie. It takes a lot of cognitive and emotional energy to do that. And over time, people make sloppier decisions, not because they want exposure, but because they're overwhelmed. So if there was any pull toward being caught, I don't think it was conscious or remorse driven. It would likely be because of psychological fatigue.

Vanessa Richardson (26:05)

Well, if Mark thought he was covering his tracks, he was mistaken. After both he and Shelby notified the authorities, Pikeville police officer Richard Ray was assigned to Susan's case. And from the beginning, Ray was suspicious of Mark. That's because Shelby had done a little digging of her own. She talked to people in Pikeville and learned that Susan had been spotted at Mark's motel. Not only that, but Susan had told people she was pregnant with Mark's child. Shelby passed all of this on to Officer Ray. And while she admitted that her sister had a wild side, she said it was completely unlike her to go days without checking in on her children. After speaking to Shelby, Officer Ray wondered if the news of Susan's pregnancy had angered Mark. Maybe he didn't want people finding out, so he got rid of her. When Ray talked to Mark, he stuck to his story. He said he didn't know where Susan was, but that he thought her substance abuse was the reason for her disappearance. He even gave Ray a play by play of everything he'd done the day she went missing, including a solo trip to the movie theater. Mark's timeline was airtight. It didn't seem like he'd seen Susan at all that day. But Ray wasn't convinced. He thought Mark's story was a little too detailed. So after he left Mark's room, he spoke with the motel's staff and asked if Susan had left anything in her room. And in fact, she had. The staff handed over Susan's belongings. It was mostly clothing and basic hygiene items. However, there was one thing that stood out to Ray. A pair of men's shorts. Ray wondered if they'd belonged to Mark. But before he could talk to him again, Mark was gone. By mid June 1989, his case had wrapped up, and he'd flown back to Miami. Officer Ray was at a loss. Meanwhile, Mark felt like he was finally out of the woods. When he returned to his family, they were thrilled to see him. It made him feel like everything was right in his world, that he'd done the correct thing by preserving his family. Over the next few days, he reveled in how happy they seemed with their new life in Florida. But Mark's past in Pikeville was catching up to him. Soon, his wife Kathy caught wind of Susan's disappearance. She told Mark about it, and he said he wasn't surprised, considering her troubled past and substance abuse. Kathy didn't seem to suspect a thing, which Mark was relieved about. But that feeling faded as the summer wore on. Mark couldn't get Susan out of his head. He could barely eat or sleep. He developed chronic stomach issues and paced the house at night. He even started scratching his chest so much that he'd make himself bleed.

Dr. Tristan Engels (28:54)

When guilt and fear become overwhelming, they start to manifest physically. Under that kind of chronic stress, the amygdala stays activated and constantly scanning for danger, cortisol and adrenaline remain elevated far longer than they're meant to. And that disrupts sleep, appetite, digestion and concentration. It's why people develop stomach pain, nausea, or feel like they can't eat because the gut is directly connected to the stress response. People often experience intrusive thoughts because with the brain, an unresolved threat demands attention. So his pacing and his inability to sleep are signs of hyperarousal. The brain won't allow rest when it believes catastrophe is imminent. Even the scratching to the point of bleeding fits that pattern. That's a form of self regulation. Physical pain can momentarily override emotional pain or give the nervous system something concrete to focus on when internal distress feels unmanageable. But importantly, this doesn't necessarily indicate remorse in a moral sense, or instead it reflects fear, loss of control and cognitive overload. So his body is reacting to constant effort of holding a very dark secret.

Vanessa Richardson (30:13)

What kinds of cases have you seen in real life where someone's dealing with this kind of physical manifestation of their stress like Mark is? And what kind of advice would you give to someone who's dealing with stress related symptoms because of more typical issues like work or relationships?

Dr. Tristan Engels (30:29)

I wish I could say they were serial killers that were experiencing this, but no. I have, though, treated people with a condition known as somatic symptom disorder, which was formerly known as somatization disorder. That's when psychological distress expresses itself through physical symptoms like stomach pain, insomnia, skin Picking headaches or gastrointestinal issues. And there's no known medical cause for these things. The symptoms are real. They're not fabricated, but they're driven by chronic stress, fear, or unresolved conflict. Somatic symptoms are quite common in most anxiety disorders, in fact. So with regard to advice, obviously this is educational only since I'm not serving as anyone's therapist. But the first thing to do is recognize what it is and normalize it in context. Like I said, symptoms like these are very common with stress and anxiety. Learn stress reduction and relaxation techniques that are effective for you because it's not a one size fits all. And of course, find the necessary support, particularly someone trained and experienced well.

Vanessa Richardson (31:31)

Even though Mark's body was telling him he needed to make a change, he kept pushing his feelings down. Kathy could tell something was wrong, but she assumed Mark's stress was due to working in a bigger, busier office. In reality, he spent each day in fear that Susan's body would finally be found and someone would trace her murder back to him. In July 1989, about a month after Susan's death, he thought the jig might finally be up when he was called into his supervisor's office. But instead of being arrested, he was congratulated. Mark's boss showed him a letter they'd received from a U.S. attorney in Eastern Kentucky praising Mark for his work. All Mark had ever wanted was to be valued as an agent. But he couldn't enjoy his success because his guilt was eating away at him. Soon it started to affect his work performance. One day in the winter of 1989, Mark was interrogating a suspect of a petty crime. Mark was sure the young man was guilty, but when he begged to go home to his wife and child, Mark caved. He let the suspect go. He couldn't justify ruining someone's life over a small time crime when he, a murderer, was walking free. The more Mark spiraled, the more he focused on Susan's case. By early 1990, he learned that the authorities had no leads and her body still hadn't been found. Some people in Pikeville thought she'd run off to start a new life, while others thought she was dead. Police had continued questioning people, including Susan's ex husband, Kenneth, who even submitted to a polygraph test. But when he took it, he had so many drugs in his system, the results were were inconclusive. Mark knew that with the investigation stalling, police would likely want to circle back to him again. Once again, he decided to get ahead of the narrative. So he reached out to some of his colleagues in the FBI and suggested they launch an internal investigation into him. He said he wanted to help the investigation by clearing his name. That way, authorities could focus on finding the real killer.

Dr. Tristan Engels (33:46)

Mark inserting himself like this as the guilty offender is likely because he wants control over how the truth is shaped. The pressure has been mounting. I mean, you've outlined it very well, Vanessa. The investigation is heating and he knows they are going to circle back to him, and he wants to preempt suspicion. He's also once again trying to exploit a cognitive bias about transparency, hoping they will make the assumption that a guilty person wouldn't voluntarily invite scrutiny. And again, it's another attempt at impression management, which seems to be one of his go to patterns.

Vanessa Richardson (34:19)

Do you think Mark might actually be confident that he'll be cleared, or is he thinking it'll be enough to end his guilt if his own colleagues can't prove he killed Susan?

Dr. Tristan Engels (34:28)

I definitely think he's feeling hopeful and maybe even confident at this point. They haven't found a body yet. It's hard but not impossible to proceed with criminal charges without one because, I mean, how do you know a crime has even occurred? But that also means he's in a space of ambiguity, and in that space, there's no certainty. And without certainty, Mark's nervous system cannot relax. Those somatic symptoms we talked about, they're not going to go away. So I think centering himself in this investigation is more about control and allowing him to feel like an active participant on the right side of the line rather than the hunted one on the wrong side of the line. There are layers, I think, to why he he's doing this. And all of them, I believe, involve self protection.

Vanessa Richardson (35:15)

Initially, the bureau thought Mark was crazy for offering to be investigated. He was one of their star agents. Now he didn't have to prove anything to the local authorities. This only frustrated the Pikeville police. Officer Richard Ray had already requested the FBI's help and they gave him the runaround. So In May of 1990, he upped the ante. Ray threatened to tell the media that an FBI informant had gone missing and the bureau wasn't doing anything about it. His threats seemed to spur them into action. The FBI agreed to form a task force to help investigate Susan's disappearance. And the first item on their agenda was investigating special Agent Mark Putnam. Mark believed they were doing it on his suggestion, but in reality, one of the task force agents was suspicious of him. So on May 15, 1990, Mark sat down with them. He told them about the last time he saw Susan. But as he talked, he started to slip. When the agents asked Mark for Susan's age, he responded by speaking about her in the past tense. To them, this small detail might have been a hint that he knew something they didn't. That Susan was no longer with them. Them. However, Mark's slip up was far from a confession. They knew they needed to scare him a little more if he was going to reveal anything big. So they showed him a piece of evidence. The pair of shorts that was found in Susan's motel room. Mark's shorts. When he looked at them, he calmly said he didn't recognize them. But on the inside, he was in a full on panic. He'd completely forgotten that he'd loaned them to Susan. And now there was direct evidence linking him to her disappearance. The investigators were definitely suspicious, although they didn't have any reason to hold him. But before letting him go, they asked Mark if he'd be willing to take a polygraph test. He said yes. Mark knew that if he said no, they'd start looking into him more aggressively. But he was still afraid. He needed help. So that night, he went home. Home. And told Kathy everything that had happened in the interrogation room. She'd always been supportive of Mark. And when she heard how intensely he'd been questioned, she was outraged. She wouldn't stand for his good name being slandered. The next morning, she marched into the FBI office to speak with someone on the case. She told them all about their family's time in Pikeville, how isolating and stressful it was, especially when they started living in fear for their safety. If she was trying to garner sympathy, it didn't work. One day later, the task force scheduled Mark's polygraph test. Now that he knew they weren't sympathetic to what he and his family had gone through in Pikeville, he was more anxious than ever. Soon Mark would reach his breaking point. And when that moment came, it would unleash a ripple effect of despair, fire and death. Why have I asked my electrician I found on Angie.com to bury my pet hamster Nibbles in our yard for me? Because I was so moved by how carefully he buried my electrical wires, I knew I could trust him to bury my sweet Nibbles after his untimely end. Nibble, Nibbles gone too soon. May he scurry in peace. Hey, sorry about your pet, but I just wire stuff. Nibbles would have loved you like a brother. Connecting homeowners with skilled pros. For over 30 years Angie, the one you trust to find the ones you trust. Find pros for all your home projects@angie.com your little one grew 3 inches overnight. Adorable.

Dr. Tristan Engels (38:59)

Also expensive.

Vanessa Richardson (39:01)

Sell their pint sized pieces on Depop and list them in minutes with no selling fees because somewhere a dad refuses to pay full price for the clothes his kids will outgrow tomorrow and he's ready to buy your son's entire wardrobe right now. Consider your future growth bird budget secured. Start selling on Depop where taste recognizes taste. Payment processing fees and boosting fees still apply. See website for details. A Master Murderer Israel Keys lives between two worlds. There's the person that everybody knows and loves, and then there's the guy who spends every waking hour planning on how he's going to kill someone. On Mind of a Monster, the Cross Country Killer, we find out how this deadly predator went unnoticed for so long.

Dr. Tristan Engels (39:45)

I've had some confessions in my history, but nothing to that detail.

Vanessa Richardson (39:48)

I'll give it glow by blow if you want.

Dr. Tristan Engels (39:50)

Listen to Mind of a Monster, the Cross Country Killer wherever you get your

Vanessa Richardson (39:54)

podcasts In May of 1990, 30 year old Mark Putnam was reeling with guilt. He'd been keeping a deadly secret that he murdered his ex informant and former lover, Susan Smith. Even though he hadn't been caught, the authorities were onto him. That month, Mark sat down to take a polygraph test as a suspect in Susan's disappearance. He knew the test wouldn't go well no matter what he did, so he thought his best option was to lie. First, when investigators asked him if he'd had a sexual relationship with Susan, he nervously denied it. Then, when they asked whether the car he had rented in Pikeville in June 1989 was involved in Susan's disappearance, he said no. When they asked if he had anything to do with it, he said no again. At one point, the person administering the test stopped and asked Mark to leave the room for a moment. When he did, the administrator told investigators that Mark's results were off the charts. He was lying about everything. They decided there was no point in continuing, so the test ended right then and there. However, the investigators brought Mark back into the room to tell him he'd done poorly. His only excuse was that the questions about his sex life made him uncomfortable. That wasn't enough for them to believe the results were a fluke. However, they still didn't have enough evidence to arrest him. After all, he hadn't actually confessed to anything. Plus, Susan's body still hadn't been found. None of this made Mark feel better though he went home and told Kathy he needed to talk to her. She knew something had gone horribly wrong, so she took Mark to a local bar to have a drink and try to relax. And there, over a double Black Russian, Mark told her that he'd failed the polygraph test. Then Kathy asked him point blank if he'd killed Susan Smith, and Mark said yes. He then told his wife all about the affair, that Susan was pregnant and claimed the baby was his, and that he hadn't meant to hurt her. When he grabbed her throat, Kathy was livid. She smacked her husband across the face right there in the bar. Neither of them could believe their lives had come to this. However, some part of Mark actually felt relieved. The truth was finally out.

Dr. Tristan Engels (42:28)

He reached his psychological breaking point. Because the cost of containing the secret was too much. He likely knew the odds of outrunning this forever were slim. Even if he somehow avoided charges, his reputation and his career were already irreparably damaged. And by this point, the weight of that secret had been showing up both physically and psychologically for quite some time. At a certain point, especially after all of that disclosure can begin to feel like relief because it ends the internal distress. Many offenders do convince themselves that they can manage a lie indefinitely. A lie like this, and that's simply not sustainable for most.

Vanessa Richardson (43:09)

So what does it say about Mark that he confessed to his wife before anyone else? Was he just at his wit's end, or did he want Kathy to hear the truth directly from him?

Dr. Tristan Engels (43:19)

Confessing to her fits a pattern we've seen with him. When pressure mounts, he doesn't fully surrender control. He manages the exposure first. And throughout this case, he's consistently practiced inoculation, getting ahead of narratives, disclosing selectively and choosing the timing and audience of the truth. This was no different. Kathy was the safest person to tell first. He's starting that inoculation process with her. She wasn't law enforcement. She was emotionally invested in him. And she had a strong incentive to absorb the shock rather than immediately act on it. By confessing to her, Mark could relieve the unbearable pressure that he was under without triggering instant legal consequences. It allowed him to release just enough truth to survive it while maintaining control over how that truth actually spread. It also was emotional containment for him. Telling her was likely about anchoring himself to the last relationship where he still had some emotional leverage and safety. This is the same woman who always advocated for him. She's the reason he got into the FBI academy. She marched down to the FBI office to complain when their interrogation of Mark was too intense. She maintained the household. She stood by him. So he likely hoped for a similar response from her.

Vanessa Richardson (44:41)

For the first time in almost a year, Mark was finally able to think clearly as he sat next to Kathy at the bar. He realized he was going to prison for a long time, and he was finally able to accept that he'd been living as a hypocrite for so long, he wanted to face the music. But Kathy saw things differently. She was rightfully furious and horrified. However, as her initial anger faded, fears about her family's future started to creep in. She didn't want her kids growing up without a father, nor did she want to give up the stability and happiness they'd finally found in Florida. Within a few days of Mark confessing to her, Kathy sat him down and told him to get a lawyer. At first, Mark protested. He just wanted it all to be over with. But she begged him to do it for their family. And in the end, he thought he owed her that much. So Mark hired a lawyer who pointed out that investigators didn't have a body, and without that, Mark would likely not be charged. For that reason, Mark's lawyer encouraged him to deny everything, and Kathy agreed. But Mark couldn't do it. He told Kathy he had to pay for what he'd done and begged his lawyer to negotiate a plea deal. They both agreed, and Mark's lawyer reached out to the prosecutor with a hypothetical situation. His lawyer asked, if Mark confessed, what kind of deal would they be willing to make? At first, the authorities weren't interested. The investigating agents had been on to Mark all along, and they weren't going to let him run the show. But the more they thought about it, the more they realized they didn't have many other options, especially because polygraph tests aren't admissible in court. So on June 1, 1990, Mark was officially offered a plea deal. Mark would plead guilty to first degree manslaughter in exchange for being able to serve his sentence in a federal prison and do no more than 16 years behind bars. Mark's lawyer also worked in the fact that Mark couldn't be charged with killing a fetus if it was later found that Susan had in fact been pregnant when she died. And while he was granted that condition, authorities were still determined to find out the truth about Susan's potential pregnancy, because Mark also agreed to tell them where he'd left her body. When they heard that he left her next to a ravine, they became worried that too much time had passed between the elements and decomposition. There may not be anything Left for them to find. But when local police went to the area, they were shocked. Susan's remains were exactly where Mark said they would be. However, they were so badly decomposed, Susan could only be identified based on the necklace she was wearing. As her remains were gathered, Police learned that in just a few days, A local mining company was scheduled to fill in the ravine, which would have buried Susan under several feet of dirt, Making the odds of ever finding her next to none. Days later, on June 12, 1990, Mark Putnam entered a guilty plea in front of a judge and officially became the first FBI agent to be convicted of a homicide. For his plea, 30 year old Mark avoided a lengthy trial and received a sentence of just 16 years in federal prison.

Dr. Tristan Engels (48:09)

What's most striking here, and honestly not uncommon, Is that he confesses only after he realizes denial is no longer a viable option. His decision to take a plea deal rather than deny the charges Is far more consistent with legal and psychological strategy Than some kind of moral awakening. Denial would have meant trial, a maximum sentence, and exposure, and surrendering control to a jury. A plea deal, by contrast, is a negotiation. And Mark has always been outcome oriented and drawn to negotiations because of control. So by this point, he's already accepted that his career and his image are gone. But what he can still control is how the story ends. Confessing, cooperating, accepting the plea deal, and leading authorities to Susan's body before they found it on their own was narrative control and an attempt to reclaim some version of himself as accountable, disciplined, and decisive. It's not remorse that's driving his behavior here. I don't believe. I believe it's once again impression management right up to the end.

Vanessa Richardson (49:15)

How might this scandal or a scandal like this affect the public's sense of trust in those who are supposed to serve and protect us?

Dr. Tristan Engels (49:23)

I think scandals like this really rupture public trust in ways that are deep and lasting. When someone who is supposed to protect people becomes the source of harm, it impacts trust in the entire system that they represent. Even decades later, cases like this still provoke anger, disbelief, and grief. I feel that myself and I often work adjacent to law enforcement, and that's because trust in law enforcement and institutions is relational. It's built on the assumption of safety and ethics and accountability. Personally, I'd really love to hear from our listeners on this, how cases like this affect your sense of trust, not just in individuals, but in systems that are supposed to serve and protect. So let us know in the comments or on social media.

Vanessa Richardson (50:10)

Even though people finally had answers about what happened to Susan Smith. Not every part of the mystery could be solved. When an autopsy was done, no fetal markers were detected, meaning the medical examiner couldn't tell whether or not she was pregnant at the time of her death. Fortunately, Susan's family was at least able to lay her to rest. Finally, now that Mark's future was sealed, he and Kathy tried their best to keep moving forward as well. They remained married, and when Mark found out that he'd be serving his sentence in Minnesota, Kathy sold their Florida condo and moved nearby so she and the children could visit him. However, Mark's conviction took a toll on Kathy mentally and financially. She had to rely on welfare to support her children. It was a life she never imagined for her family. And on top of that, she could never quite stop thinking of Susan and what Mark had done to her. It kept her awake most nights, and sometimes even when she was able to sleep, she'd dream she was talking to Susan and would wake up with the phone in her hand. Eventually, the stress of Kathy's new reality led her to start drinking heavily. And in 1998, eight years into Mark's sentence, Kathy passed away from organ failure after a long battle with alcoholism, leaving their children to be cared for by their grandparents.

Dr. Tristan Engels (51:32)

Losing a partner affects incarcerated individuals profoundly because that connection often becomes the psychological lifeline that they hold onto. It keeps them future oriented. I've seen how destabilizing it is when support disappears, and I've often been called for crisis intervention as a result of that. For Mark, this loss likely hit even harder because he wasn't serving a life sentence. He was planning on reintegration. He had been orienting himself toward a future that included reunification with his wife and children. He was likely planning on rebuilding, providing again, and trying to redeem himself in some meaningful way. That future was something he could work toward, and then it vanished. And when that happens, it can be deeply disorienting. Incarcerated people already experience massive loss of agency, and they rely heavily on loved ones to help them re enter a world that has changed drastically without them. But Kathy's death appears intertwined with the consequences of his actions, and that creates compounded grief and guilt. His crime didn't just take Susan's life. It appears that it contributed to the slow unraveling of Kathy's life. Someone who loved him, who believed in him, stood by him, and advocated for him. That's another irreversible loss, and there's no negotiating that. And it underscores something else that's important. The consequences of violent crime don't end at sentencing, they ripple outward and they keep affecting lives long after the court proceedings.

Vanessa Richardson (53:08)

What is it that drives a spouse to stay loyal to a partner who's confessed to murder?

Dr. Tristan Engels (53:15)

That's going to vary widely by person and circumstance. There's no single explanation. But in Kathy's case, there's a clear relational pattern I think that we saw unfold. She's had long been positioned as Mark's rescuer. She advocated for Mark when he almost didn't get his career, she advocated for Mark when his career was on the line. She stabilized the home when he withdrew into work, she stormed into the FBI office when they interrogated him too intensely. And she emotionally buffered him when things started to unravel. For someone in that role, loyalty can become less about the crime itself and more about consistency of their own identity. So she may have felt that was who she was and what she should do and how she shows love, especially when everything felt like it was falling apart. Clinging to what felt normal and routine may have felt stabilizing to in some way and her children. So what he did affected her too. She's a secondary victim. So are their children. And there's also often a mix of denial and compartmentalization for survival.

Vanessa Richardson (54:26)

In the year 2000, at age 41, Mark Putnam was released early on good behavior after serving just 10 years in prison for the murder of Susan Smith. As of 2016, he was living in Georgia, had remarried, and was working as a personal trainer. To this day, the case remains one of the most unsettling cautionary tales in FBI history and serves as a reminder of just how dangerous it can be when boundaries between agents and informants disappoint. Thanks so much for listening. Come back next week for a deep dive into the mind of another murderer.

Dr. Tristan Engels (55:21)

Serial Killers and Murderous Minds is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on all social media rimehouse. Don't forget to rate, review and follow Serial Killers and Murderous Minds wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference and

Vanessa Richardson (55:44)

to enhance your listening experience, subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode of Serial Killers and Murderous Minds ad Free Free. Along with early access to each thrilling two part series. Serial Killers and Murderous Minds is hosted by me, Vanessa Richardson and forensic psychologist Dr. Tristan Engels and is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. This episode was brought to life by the Serial killers and Murderous Minds Team Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benedon, Laurie Marinelli, Natalie Pertzovsky, Sarah Camp, Sarah Batchelor, Markie Lee, Sarah Tardif and Carrie Murphy. Thank you for listening. What drives a person to murder? Find out from a licensed forensic psychologist on Serial Killers and Murderous Minds, a Crime House Original Podcast New episodes drop every Monday and Thursday. Follow wherever you get your podcasts.