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- [00:07]
A
This is Crime House.
- [00:09]
B
She thought her kid was banged up. She thought my life was over. She thought a poor baby was dead. And this poor mother now has to live with the fact that her baby was killed in an accident of someone's stupidity. Texting and driving.
- [00:27]
A
As they say, money makes the world go round. What many don't talk about is the time it made people's worlds come to a screeching halt. Whether it's greed, desperation, or a thirst for power, money can make even the most unassuming people do unthinkable things. And sometimes those acts can be deadly. This is Scams, Money and Murder A Crime House Original I'm your host Nicole Lapin. Every Thursday we alternate between covering infamous money motivated crimes and gripping interviews with the experts or those who were directly involved themselves. Crime House exists because of you. Please rate, review and follow Scams, Money and Murder wherever you get your podcasts. And for early ad, free access and bonus content, subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts. Just got a new puppy or kitten. Congrats. But also yikes. Between crates, beds, toys, treats and those first few vet visits, you've probably probably already dropped a small fortune. Which is where Lemonade pet insurance comes in. It helps cover vet costs so you can focus on what's best for your new pet. The coverage is customizable, sign up is quick and easy, and your claims are handled in as little as three seconds. Lemonade offers a package specifically for puppies and kittens. Get a'llemonade.com pet your future self will thank you. Your pet won't. They don't know what insurance is. Buying a car in Carvana was so easy. I was able to finance it through them. I just. Whoa, wait. You mean finance? Yeah, finance. Got pre qualified for a Carvana auto loan, entered my terms and shot from thousands of great car options, all within my budget.
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B
That's cool.
- [02:13]
A
But financing through Carvana was so easy. Financed, done. And I get to pick up my car from their Carvana vending machine tomorrow. Financed, right? That's what they said. You can spend time trying to pronounce financing, or you can actually finance and buy your car. Today on Carvana financing, subject to credit approval. Additional terms and conditions may apply. Imagine hearing your kid's voice on the phone, sobbing and in distress, begging for help. It is every parent's worst nightmare, right? I know. It's mine. That's exactly, though, what happened to a woman named Sharon Brightwell who received a call from her daughter, April Monroe. Or so she thought. In reality, a Scammer used AI to perfectly clone April's voice and used it in a frantic phone call to call her mother. The call sent April's family into a spot spiral of fear, leading them to hand over a large sum of money. April is now here to share all the details of how the scammers used her voice to prey upon her family, how her family reacted, and how they're now coping with the emotional and financial aftermath. April, thank you so much for being here.
- [03:18]
B
Yeah, thanks for having me.
- [03:19]
A
I really appreciate you walking us through this story because it is absolutely terrifying. Can you take us back to the beginning? Because before you received a call from your family, this was a pretty ordinary day for you.
- [03:31]
B
I'm a radiology student, so I'm at a clinical site and every day around lunch, I usually check in on my kids and they were checking in with me. And then I get a call from my friend and she's like in panic voice, she's like, april, your mom's been scammed. I need to put you on a three way with her. And I'm like, what? So she gets on a three way and she's making sounds that I have never heard my mother make ever, like screaming. So I walk outside and I'm like, what has happened?
- [04:01]
A
And.
- [04:02]
B
And so apparently my voice had been cloned. Called her around 11:30. Nothing would have convinced her that it was not me on the phone. I had been in an accident, texting and driving. Hit a pregnant woman. Apparently I was arrested for texting and driving. Didn't know you could get arrested for that. I was all banged up apparently. So they took me to an infirmary because I was being detained also. And so I'm telling her all of this and then I hand the phone over to someone who claimed to be a detective and then another person that was like a Bonds guy saying that this is what had happened. The pregnant lady and the baby are in the hospital. They're not doing well. Her bail will be $15,000. So all that's going through my mom's mind is I have to help my kid. She's about to finish school. All these things are going through her head. And so she pretty much does what they ask her to do and no questions asked. But at the same time, my son who was there, this is still summer at this point. We have Life360 and it's pretty accurate. And he's like, nana, I still see her at her clinical site. She questioned it. They were able to explain that away. We took her back over that way. Because that's where the accident happened. So that was the closest place to take me. So they were just able to kind of piece things together that looking back doesn't make sense, but did at the time to them. So she went and got cash, pretty big chunk. And they also told her, like, don't tell the people at the bank what it's for. That should have been a flag, but it wasn't. She had to lie to them to tell them what it was for because I mean, it's a large chunk of money, so they're going to ask why. And they told her to put it in a box and that a bonds courier, which is not a thing, will come and pick it up. And they literally came to her driveway in a black Tahoe. And this guy that was dressed nice got out and put it in the backseat, asked her, is it okay to put it in the backseat? That made me think that he didn't really know what he was picking up. And he took off and only then did a little flag race for her. Like this seems really weird.
- [06:08]
A
So this guy picks up the money from your mom, he takes off. But that wasn't the end of the story, right? What happened next?
- [06:16]
B
They had called back. They had called her back and said the baby died. And now things have escalated because now it's like vehicular homicide and they're going to need more money, which it's not a restaurant. You don't get your bill the same day you're at the hospital. They don't even know what's being done yet. That didn't register at the time. And so she was about to go get more money, but because it was at the bank and they're not going to let you pull out more. In the same day, hours apart, she called my best friend for help. And that's when my best friend Leslie like screamed at the phone, like, do not. This is a scam. Like she's screaming, no, no, no. And my mom was in shock, like, are you serious right now? And she's like, I'm gonna put her on a three way call. And that's when they called me. And my mom still couldn't believe that I was actually me talking on the phone because again, nothing was gonna convince her that that wasn't me in the beginning. So I left the clinical site and so I rushed back over there and even my son was waiting in the driveway sitting on the bed of his truck. And when I drove up in the driveway and my car was not harmed, I got out unharmed. He bent over and puked. And because that's how convinced they were even talking to me on the three way call, they were still not totally convinced that I was okay. And so for the next couple hours, I just hung out with my mom because she couldn't stop hugging me and she came crying because she just couldn't believe that that had happened. Couldn't believe it. And you know, granted, she's dealing with a lot with my dad. His health declined really quickly and unexpectedly. And she's learning things. That was always his responsibility before. So her brain wasn't completely on guard. But you know, at the same time, when are we not all dealing with something so we're not always going to be on guard. You know, most of us would have fallen for that. They did a very good job. They knew everything about me, even to the point where I apparently was telling her not to tell the kids. How did they even know I had kids? It was wild.
- [08:18]
A
I'm speechless. It's so insane. I mean, beyond using your voice, you know, how do you think they knew you were a person of faith? You had kids. They used a lot of specifics about you.
- [08:31]
B
They did. So months ago, this was before all this, just for funsies, me and my son were like chatgpting ourselves and they knew. Tell me something about April Monroe, Plant City. Like you give it a little bit of specifics. It knew I was like a soccer manager for my daughter's team for years. It knew that my daughter was a high school soccer player. Knew that she was like, had a good GPA and was in the top whatever of her class. Like, they knew a lot about both kids. They knew a lot about me. So there's one thing then you have social media, which even if your account's private, I'm sure there's a way. There's loopholes everywhere. And a friend that's a retired police officer told me that if you're ever on any recorded phone calls with insurance or anything like that, those are all recorded. You get letters in the mail all the time. Oh, there was a data breach with this company. You know what I mean? So there's really a million ways they could have gotten information.
- [09:28]
A
Do you have any sense as to why you were targeted and how the scammers designed their story to hit your sweet, poor mom where she was most vulnerable?
- [09:42]
B
I don't think it was a personal attack at all, but I do think it's the boomer generation because, I mean, every time you see someone's account on Facebook has been hacked, who is it? It's someone in the boomer generation. They can find all your connections. You know, like, she's listed as my mom, my dad's listed as my dad. It's real easy to connect everybody. Anything that we post is all family. So all they needed to know was the touch point was family faith. Anything that along those lines, they're going to get you pretty hard. Kids, you know, break you down. They disarmed her immediately.
- [10:13]
A
How old is your mom?
- [10:14]
B
She's 59 going on 60.
- [10:17]
A
And you mentioned your mom was told to bring a large sum of money. She went to the bank, it sounds like. How much money was that?
- [10:25]
B
15 grand.
- [10:26]
A
And what does that mean for your family? What kind of money is that for your family?
- [10:30]
B
It's a lot. They don't have a lot. They're on a fixed income. My dad, he had to quit work unexpectedly and quicker than he planned because of a surgery that had caused all, like, a snowball effect of other things. And he is in probably mid to late stages of dementia, which all happened within less than a year. So it's been insane. And so he's not working. They get a very fixed income just through Social Security and things like that. My mom's a retired school teacher, and so that's what they live on. They have a little nest egg of savings. But even taking that was a pretty good chunk. I mean, it's good to know, like, how much you mean to your parents when they'll go and take out a big chunk of money for you. But knowing what that was, you know, comparison to what they have, like, it was. It was a lot. They need, you know, repairs to the house. You know, they've got to deal with a new roof. Like, just things like that that cost a lot of money and that was, you know, that's a new roof.
- [11:28]
A
I mean, the police, it sounds like, have told you that the likelihood of getting any of that money back is zero.
- [11:34]
B
It's pretty zero, yeah. One of my friends had given me the idea to start a GoFundMe. So I'm like, well, why not? Let's just give it a shot. They were able to recover a good chunk of that. Not all of it, but more than half. So that was a blessing for them for sure.
- [11:49]
A
And how do you think they've dealt with that financial loss on top of this emotional one?
- [11:54]
B
They had no choice but to deal with it and just kind of get over that initial nausea that that money is gone and that, you know, it's just money. You can always make more, but with them at this stage, it's hard for them to make extra. They'll be feeling it for a bit, but getting some of that back has helped a lot. They'll be feeling the emotional part of that for a long time.
- [12:17]
C
Martha listens to her favorite band all the time, in the car, gym, even sleeping. So when they finally went on tour, Martha bundled her flight and hotel on Expedia to see them live. She saved so much she got a seat close enough to actually see and hear them. Sort of you were made to scream from the front row. We were made to quietly save you more. Expedia made to travel Savings vary and subject to availability. Flight inclusive packages are atoll protected.
- [12:47]
A
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- [13:02]
C
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- [13:44]
A
See for yourself at botoxcosmetic.com.
- [13:49]
B
Scams like.
- [13:50]
A
This don't just affect their victims financially, they affect them psychologically as well. So how has April's mother been dealing with the psychological turmoil from this scam?
- [14:00]
B
Well, for her, definite exhaustion on top of everything else that she's dealing with because she also lost her father the month prior. So my nanny has been also living there. So she's almost 90, comes with her own needs. You know, she wanted to do the podcast, but she didn't feel like she had the emotional ability to go through rehash everything again because of the amount of emotion that came out. That's nothing I've ever witnessed of her or really anybody. So it was very, very traumatizing. So I think it's probably PTSD Anytime she needs to, like, rehash anything.
- [14:35]
A
Yeah.
- [14:36]
B
Because, you know, she thought her kid was banged up. She thought my life was over. She thought a poor baby was dead. And this poor mother now has to live with the fact that her baby was killed in an accident of someone's stupidity. Texting and driving, all these things, you know, they've lost money. The amount of emotions felt within an hour's time is, like, very, very traumatizing on your system. Like, I can't even imagine. I mean, I was just witness to it, and it was a lot. But just for her to go through all of that, dealing with what she's dealing with was. It was a lot. And it's still triggering. I guess if you bring it up, it's just kind of like, you know how you feel that in your gut when something, you know goes bad in life, you bring it back up and it's. You just have that feeling in your stomach that's just like, ugh.
- [15:21]
A
So we want to spare mama that visceral reaction.
- [15:26]
B
Yeah.
- [15:26]
A
How do you think it's changed the way you and your family trust people?
- [15:31]
B
We don't answer anything anymore. We answer no calls. But, I mean, if it is us, we, you know, if something sounds off, off. We have our little word, a family code word. And if we call and we're in a panic, there's a code word that we have to verify that you're who you say you are. But even, like, things that come through the mail, things that come through our texts, and they're just getting more and more sophisticated. And so you have to just kind of be just on guard all the time and understand who's not going to call you or who's not going to text you on your phone. On guard with everything. Because you have to be. Because it's just getting smarter and smarter, and it's only gonna continue to get smarter. Yeah.
- [16:10]
A
The technology is absolutely terrifying. It sounds like your voice was cloned perfectly.
- [16:16]
B
It was.
- [16:17]
A
Have you or law enforcement been able to piece together how these criminals might have gotten a recording of your voice?
- [16:24]
B
Nothing that they've said, but all I can think of is just through other recorded calls or social media, because not long before this happened, I was studying, and my cat likes to sit on my homework every single time I'm trying to do something. And so I video recorded it and was talking to the cat, and there was no sounds in the background. So it was a very clear audio of my voice. And it was short, but enough. That was all on social media, too. So they had plenty of access to it.
- [16:53]
A
Has law enforcement given you more information as to how these scams take place and who ends up being victims?
- [17:04]
B
So they did recently find out that it traced back to, I want to say India is what they said. But Uber is very much in profile right now. They don't know how much Uber is aware, how much the drivers are aware. Like when the guy picked up the money, he took the box and asked if he could put it in the back seat. Almost as if he needed to know if it was fragile, kind of like if he didn't know what it was. So I don't know if there's like a head person and then the drivers are the middle man who may not know anything, and then there's the people getting this money. So I don't know if there's some connections in there, but I do know that they're under high investigation right now through this scam. The officer actually this past week brought in like a folder of a lineup and asked my mom could she pick out the driver. Was any of these people looking like the driver? And she picked him out. She knew exactly what he looked like. Wow. Yeah. So again, I don't know if that guy knew anything. If he's got caught up in a really bad deal, which is possible, it would be smart to not involve these people and knowing what they're doing.
- [18:09]
A
So you arrive at your parents house. This guy, likely a random driver who wasn't involved directly, has already picked up $15,000 in cash from your mom. But things don't end there. What happened next?
- [18:23]
B
So I get to my parents house, not 10 minutes later, they call again asking about this other chunk of money that was their last call, was asking for more money. Because now things have escalated. Now it's homicide. That's when they had called my friend to help. They called back while I was there and I'm like, oh, you bet. Answer that phone. Answer it. Let's tell them that you have it. Because I wanted them to come back. I was ready to go out there. Like I'm not very big person, but I was about ready to go, like put someone on the ground and get the money back out of the backseat. I was ready and so I wanted the cops to meet us there. Call the cops, call the guy you already talked to because they had already called the cops at this point and can you be here and then the guy's there and you're like, we're handing them to you. Does I mean, that seems like a really good Setup to me. Well, they thought that would put everybody in danger because they don't know if they're armed. But I'm like, well, that's why you're there. Like you're armed. Like, that's why we're calling you. But they didn't feel like that was a good idea. So we just didn't answer the phone and was told to block the number and not pick up again if they.
- [19:30]
A
Called by the police.
- [19:32]
B
Yeah. And the police were gonna handle it on their end, but I was like, they could have been right here in the driveway. But I guess that's not how they work.
- [19:40]
A
How did you think of that? In the thick of all of this.
- [19:43]
B
I watched too much True Crime.
- [19:44]
A
It sounds like it.
- [19:47]
B
Like they're going to show back up. Let's tell them we have it. I will be ready for these people.
- [19:52]
A
I mean, you're. You sound amazing under pressure.
- [19:56]
B
Well, I hope so.
- [19:57]
A
When they called back and they had this new demand, which is just a whole other level of audacity. Yeah.
- [20:03]
B
Like another, like, 10 grand something crazy. And she was gonna do it.
- [20:07]
A
So at that point, you'd already involved the police and they put the kibosh on you talking with them again.
- [20:14]
B
Yes.
- [20:15]
A
And since then, how have they been helpful or unhelpful in tracking them down?
- [20:22]
B
They've been really good about keeping my mom up to date. Like, they'll call her on a weekly basis and say, this is where we're at. Or even if, you know, nothing's been further, like, this part takes a while. You know, it's a process. I understand that, but at least they are following up. And it's not just. Well, you know, that's just another crappy thing that happened that we're not going to be able to get to, and we're just not going to, like, bother with our resources. But they really are putting time and effort into getting to the bottom of it, because it's happening more and more and more, and it's only going to continue to happen. So they've got to get to the bottom of it.
- [20:54]
A
No doubt. So it sounds like the scammers are somewhere overseas. And at some point during the scam, if somebody seems like they're playing along, they'll order an Uber courier to go to the person's house to pick up the cash without them knowing what the package is, which is how the platform works.
- [21:13]
B
Yeah. So they probably have some kind of hub maybe in every state, every city. Who knows, like, how extensive this thing goes. But, yeah, that's what it sounds like, okay, they took the bait. We need a package courier for this. And then, you know, package couriers are a thing for Uber. Like, they do it all the time. If, you know, there's a thing that comes up. Oh, I'll take that one. If I'm a driver, you know, like, oh, okay. Cause I, if I need the money, I'm going to pick up whatever's in my area. I feel like they don't know. I feel like these people don't know what they're picking up and they're getting looped into this horrible, horrible operation unbeknownst to them. Right.
- [21:48]
A
It sounds like your family members, specifically your son, tried to challenge the story.
- [21:52]
B
He did. And that's the interesting thing with them being such different generations. Like, he's the generation that is up to date with all of the things and my mom's the one that they're the generation that aren't. And so you had him, you know, seeing me on the live 360. She's right here. They were convincing enough for him too. He heard the call, he was listening to the whole conversation. So they were enough to convince a very diverse generation.
- [22:19]
A
Live360 is basically like, find my phone.
- [22:21]
B
Yeah, I mean, it's super accurate. Like, I mean, they stalk me, I stalk them.
- [22:26]
A
Well, you wanna see where they are? So what do you think it was that they were able to say? How did the scammers shut down your son's questions?
- [22:36]
B
Well, being that I was at a hospital, it just worked out that that's where I was and that's where they had taken me as well, was to a hospital because I was all banged up. So had I been, you know, at a different job site or, you know, I also work for a marketing company. Had I been at that office, that would have been a much bigger red flag had they seen me at the marketing company building rather than the hospital. But since it was the hospital, it was just a perfect storm of coincidence. But that's actually where I was and I was just working.
- [23:13]
A
Even though it was April's mom who had lost the money to a scammer, her 16 year old son was also impacted emotionally. As April mentioned earlier, when she arrived home that day, her son literally threw up with relief. So how has the trauma of this scam affected him?
- [23:30]
B
I guess it probably makes you a little bit callous to things now. Like, you don't trust anybody, trust anything. So it's good and bad. He's definitely had his share of, like, understanding what scams Are now it's. It definitely had a toll on him, but he's learned at least early to where. Now he knows moving forward as an adult, once he gets up into the real world, starts making his own money, to be super careful.
- [23:55]
A
So since then, how have you talked about scams? It sounds like you came together, came up with a safe word. Do you believe every family should have that?
- [24:04]
B
Absolutely. Like, if you're gonna do anything, have a safe word, have a couple. Because, I mean, our devices are listening to us apparently all the time. And even questions, even personal questions could be answered by somebody else. So safe words would be a really good thing.
- [24:21]
A
So explain how you guys have talked about safe words and potential scenarios where those could come into play.
- [24:28]
B
If one of my kids calls me and they've been in an accident or if they suddenly need money somewhere or anything that just is kind of out of the everyday, there's gonna be, okay, what's our code word first off? And if they can't answer that, then I'd be like, okay, well, let me call you back. And then I'm gonna hang up and call my kid back and make sure that that's them.
- [24:50]
A
Are there any other safeguards that you guys have in place? Like, for anybody listening to this right now who might find themselves on the other end of a call like this, what do you think is the most important thing they can do?
- [25:01]
B
Our phone company, And I'm not sure if every phone company has it, but I know that for the one I have, they. It's a call blocker. It's like an app that will block out spam calls. And so it just helps. It doesn't catch all of them. And if you know there's a spam call and you reject it, it will pick it up the next time as a spam call. But it's just kind of a extra wall that will block out calls. That's another little safeguard you could put on your phone. And I know they have regular apps, too, that might be free, but just don't pick up the phone if it doesn't look familiar. If you don't know the number, even sometimes, even if it does look legit, wait for that to, you know, leave you a message. Because there's a lot of companies that would seem important that aren't going to call you. Like the IRS scheme that went on, you know, years back and still goes on, like, they're not going to call your phone. A bail bondsman is not going to call your phone. A sheriff will call you and Then it probably will come to your house to talk to you. But no bondsman is ever going to call you and ask for money. There's almost no company that's going to call you and ask you for immediate money or cash. Maybe just keeping those in mind and asking more questions, pausing, you know, just kind of thinking about what you're, who you're on the phone with, calming down enough to ask questions.
- [26:17]
A
So was the original call to your mom from your phone? Because that's a scam that's going on too, where it actually looks like it's coming from your number?
- [26:26]
B
No, because they said they had confiscated my phone. So it was a different call. It's a different number, but I think it was like a Tampa number, like a local looking number.
- [26:35]
A
So they said they were the sheriff or the who?
- [26:39]
B
I think the first guy said he was like a detective and then he handed the phone to a bail bondsman. Which they're not ever in the same room together. They're not hanging out with the person they've just detained. Like you're not all just hanging out in the hospital room. Maybe a sheriff and a person, but not a bail bondsman also. You're never gonna have those people in the room together.
- [27:00]
A
It is completely understandable that your mom would have gotten caught up in the emotions around this and that she wasn't able to think logically. That is by design though. That's what these scammers do. Has your mom blamed herself for this?
- [27:12]
B
Oh, yeah. The amount of embarrassment that she has felt. I'm like, mom, we need to like share this. I know it's hard and it's a lot and you feel silly, but people need to know because other people are going to fall for that. And who I might have fallen for, anybody could fall for it. I put the story out there and I put a more extensive one in the GoFundMe. And the amount of outreach, the amount of traction that it's gotten has been insane. And that has helped. But yes, she was very, very embarrassed. Definitely felt like she was not on her A game. And so it, you know, you can't give a hundred to everything. And when you're already splitting yourself in 10 pieces, your brain's not gonna work right? That's for everybody. You can't give a hundred to everything. Something's gonna suffer. And on that day, it was her logic. And that could be anybody. On any given day, you have a bad day at work, you know, something bad happens or something not even that bad happens. You're Just not on your A game. It can happen to anybody.
- [28:10]
A
Yeah, but she's hearing what she believes to be her daughter's voice. And so it's such a new scam, right?
- [28:17]
B
It's a different level. Yeah. Like, I will go to jail for my daughter, my kids. So, yeah, if my kids called and it was that I would do anything I needed to do for them, or like, if I actually did do that and I killed somebody because I was being dumb, you leave my butt in jail. Like, just let me sit there and think about what I have done, because that's dumb, you know? So I'm like, if that does happen, don't mail me out. Let me sit there.
- [28:44]
A
Through this. And sharing your story on GoFundMe and elsewhere, have you heard from other people who have experienced something similar?
- [28:52]
B
Yes. Like almost exact. Maybe not as direct as a daughter, but like a nephew, a grandchild, a cousin, somebody along those lines, probably someone they knew, probably looking at their social media that they spent time with and were close to. I mean, grandparents that have been taken for even larger amounts than that. Even in other states. I have family members who were called. Little different scenarios, but same kind of gist. Like, you know, someone needed to be bailed out and they needed money and they were able to stop it immediately.
- [29:25]
A
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- [29:55]
B
It's Wednesday.
- [29:55]
A
Adams.
- [29:57]
B
I see you're trying to distract yourself from your own banal thoughts. Let me help. Here's a recording thing made of my latest root canal.
- [30:17]
A
Wednesday Season two is now playing only on Netflix. Have you ever wondered what it would be like to be best friends with a murderer? Or to escape a kidnapping? Or to be the daughter of a serial killer? I'm Jack Vanik. And I'm Alexis Linklater. And we're the hosts of the First Degree podcast. Every Wednesday, we dive into a new true crime story told through the eyes of somebody intimately connected to the case itself. From the world's most infamous crimes to unbelievable cases you've never even heard of. We examine the ripple effects that one single moment can have on an infinite number of lives. Join us as we navigate the twisted paths of crime and uncover a closer understanding of the darkness that walks among us every day. Listen to the first degree every Wednesday and Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts. Some of the playbook is the same with these scams. A call will come through from someone saying that they have been detained because they violated the law or they killed someone. So what commonalities has April seen as she's learned about other versions of this scam?
- [31:25]
B
Yeah, I think the big one is that they've been detained, whether it's been for a vehicular thing or not. I don't know all the stories that seems probably the most plausible for people because if they had said, oh, she, you know, robbed a bank, like, no one's going to believe that, you know, but accident, yeah, because that can happen to anybody at any moment. And so that's probably the main one, but definitely the bail. I've heard that one on many occasions. Even prior to this happening, I knew that this was something going around.
- [31:58]
A
How did you hear about it? Just through social media.
- [32:01]
B
I don't even remember. It might have been just like listening to a podcast news or, you know, like NPR or something like that. Just coming through with it. Have no idea. I had heard about it just right before it happened and I was like, I should probably tell my parents about that. And then it happened to them. So I'm like, okay, next time I hear about anything, immediately, tell them immediately.
- [32:23]
A
Well, I think you're right. There's a special place in hell for scammers who prey on elderly people, right?
- [32:30]
B
Especially if their lines of work have not been on a computer or, you know, because, I mean, you can have people in that generation whose lines of work are on the computer and they are up to date with everything. But with them, like my dad was an AC guy and my mom was a teacher. Like, they're just, you know, middle class working people and they could care less about technology and they hate having to log into everything and remember 67 passwords. That's where they are. So keeping up with all of this is. It's too much. And these scammers know that they're not going to educate themselves to the extent that they need to in order to not be scammed.
- [33:10]
A
And now how have you guys worked together as a family to help educate them more?
- [33:16]
B
Anytime that there's anything on the computer that my mom wants to look at or whatever, she always texts me or texts, you know, another family member like, does this look real? Or even, like, some of the news outlets that have reached out. One of your people from the station reached out to me. We initially, like, ignored it because we're like, we don't know what's. Who's real and who's not. So we just kind of let it go with you guys and, like, a couple others that have reached out saying, oh, I'm from Fox or I'm from ABC or whatever. I'm Googling who they say they are and if they're legit, they're legit. But, yeah, I mean, there's been messages that have come through her Facebook from other stations around the country. There was even one from Australia that was like, we would like to have you on our show or whatever. And she's like, I don't know. This doesn't look real. And I'm like, I don't know either. I have no idea. So we've just kind of say no to everything.
- [34:06]
A
That's a really scary way to live, too. How have you worked with your mom to verify emails? I mean, they're. They're really getting so. So spot on. I even found myself questioning, like, is this from actual Yahoo the other day, or is this from something that looks exactly the same?
- [34:28]
B
Yeah, we've done the same thing, even, like through work, because it'll just say their name. And so you rarely go and look at their email address when it's from your coworker or, you know, and so it looks like something legit. And then you're like, there's something in it that's off. And if you know the person well enough, you know how they talk, you know, how they write an email, something will be off. And so I've told her, look at the actual email address. Like, if it's an actual company, like, let's say it's PayPal or your bank or something like that, it's not going to be, you know, something. Something@gmail.com. it's going to be at PayPal or at GTE or, you know, whatever your bank is, it's going to be professional. It will have that tag and it won't be a Hotmail account. It's, you know, which a lot of the times if you look it's@somethingweird.com, you know, nothing professional, nothing you've ever heard of. So for her, I've just. If you see something that looks like something you should look at, look at the actual email address that it's from. If that doesn't seem professional, then it's A scam, period.
- [35:32]
A
What are some of the more wild stories that you've heard so far now that you've connected with other victims?
- [35:38]
B
There was one that was a family friend whose parent is in a nursing home. And they contacted him, sounding like his nephew, and needed bail money. And it was a much larger amount. I'm thinking it was like 50 grand. And he gave it. And then there's been others who have been kind of close, and they were able to call somebody else, like another family member, and that person was able to tell them, no, you need to question that. You know, don't do it. That's probably a scam.
- [36:09]
A
Do you guys stay in touch or share best practices now that you've connected with other victims?
- [36:15]
B
If they're like a family friend or whatever we do, or if, you know, someone who I haven't talked to in a long time comes across something similar, they'll reach out and be like, this just happened, you know, and it's usually just like a phone call or somebody needing money for something that just sounds legit for a minute until they're able to, like, just pause and understand that it's not.
- [36:36]
A
And it sounds like you guys are taking a lot of steps to protect yourself, heal as a family from this type of attack. In the future, would you leave our listeners with any last piece of advice?
- [36:50]
B
Yeah, definitely. The code word would be the biggest one. Just have maybe two, a couple of code words that you know that it's that person. Even if the phone says it's that person, they come through panicked, needing money, anything like that. I think some of them are even asking for gift cards. Question that. Definitely question that. Take a pause, say, let me call you right back, or ask for a code word. Usually if you call back, it's not the same person you were just talking to. They're going to be like, what are you talking about? And, you know, keep up to date with what's going on. But there's many, and they keep getting creative. Like, once this one gets shut down because everybody knows about it, they're going to come up with something else. Viruses do the same thing, and that's what these people are.
- [37:34]
A
Yeah, I think that's one of the things that we've noticed in covering these types of scams is that it's a game of whack a mole.
- [37:41]
B
Yeah.
- [37:42]
A
Once we publicize or talk about one, they're already on to the next.
- [37:47]
B
They're already onto the next. And, you know, using AI for things. AI is also intelligent. It can learn which is very creepy. You know, it learns and adapts and evolves, which is crazy. So it's going to keep doing that and it's not gonna slow down anytime soon. So I guess just keeping up to date with that and being on your guard. Always be careful with what you put on social media. I'm not saying to keep everything private, but I mean, the more private, the better. How many people really need to know where you had dinner? I mean, we all love to do it because it's exciting and we want people to know that this place is good or whatever, but maybe be selective. They don't need to know.
- [38:25]
A
Your whole life, did you ever think that you would become a scam advocate or victim's advocate?
- [38:32]
B
No. No.
- [38:34]
A
What's your hope with the work and the discussion about this that you're now having?
- [38:40]
B
Well, one that you know that my family doesn't ever get touched by this again, but just that other people can warn their family members who aren't gonna listen to a podcast about it or see a lot of news about it that they can by word of mouth go and let them know. Because especially people who don't get on social media and things like that, they're not going to know all of this information. And these people are banking on that. If you have a grandparent or a parent, you know, anybody, really just let them know. Like this is going around. Just kind of be on your guard.
- [39:14]
A
April, thank you so much for being here and sharing your family's story.
- [39:18]
B
Of course. I really appreciate you guys taking it and keeping the message going.
- [39:29]
A
Scams Money and Murder is hosted by me, Nicole Lapdon, and is a Crime House original. Powered by Pave Studios. My guest today was April Monroe. Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your continued support. If you like what you heard here today, reach out on all social media rimehouse. And don't forget to rate, review and follow Scams, Money and Murder wherever you get your podcast. Your feedback truly makes a difference. And for ad free listening plus early access and bonus content. Subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts. This episode was brought to life by the Scams, Money and Murder team. Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benedon, Stacey Warrener, Sarah Kampf and Paul Libeskin. And Doug Limu. And I always tell you to customize your car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual. But now we want you to feel it it. Cue the emu music. Limu, save yourself the money today. Increase your wealth. Customize and save. We say that may have been too much feeling.
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