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- [00:02]
A
Hey there, it's Nicole Lapman, host of the Crime House Original Scams, Money and Murder. If you are loving this show, you don't want to miss our fellow Crime House Original podcast, Conspiracy Theories, Cults and Crimes. Every Wednesday you'll get to explore the true stories behind the world's most shocking crimes, deadly ideologies and secret plots. From mass suicides and political assassinations to secret government experiments and UFO cults. Follow Conspiracy Theories, Cults and Crimes now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever you listen. And for ad free listening and early access to episodes, subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts.
- [00:50]
B
This is Crime House. Well, they were claiming that they had a working debit card that you could put your money into. And they were saying that they had all these different backers and ultimately that in and of itself is a fraud because you're lying in order to get people to invest into something. I was obsessed with taking these guys down. They had angered me so much that I was looking at taking them down as as much as I could.
- [01:21]
A
As they say, money makes the world go round. What many don't talk about is the time it made people's worlds come to a screeching halt. Whether it's greed, desperation or a thirst for power, money can make even the most unassuming people do unthinkable things. And sometimes those acts can be deadly. This is Scams, Money and Murder, a Crime House original. I'm your host, Nicole Lapin. Every Thursday we alternate between covering infamous money motivated crimes and gripping interviews with the experts or those who were directly involved themselves. Crime House exists because of you. Please rate, review and follow Scams, Money and Murder wherever you get your podcasts. And for early ad, free access and bonus content, subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts. Just got a new puppy or kitten. Congrats. But also yikes. Between crates, beds, toys, treats and those first few vet visits, you've probably already already dropped a small fortune. Which is where Lemonade pet insurance comes in. It helps cover vet costs so you can focus on what's best for your new pet. The coverage is customizable, sign up is quick and easy, and your claims are handled in as little as three seconds. Lemonade offers a package specifically for puppies and kittens. Get a'llemonade.com pet your future self will thank you. Your pet won't. They don't know what insurance is. Thanks for selling your car to Carvana. Here's your check. Whoa.
- [02:57]
B
When did I get here? What do you mean I swear it was just moments ago that I accepted a great offer from Carvana Online. I must have time traveled to the future.
- [03:04]
A
It was just moments ago. We do same day pickup. Here's your check for that great offer.
- [03:08]
B
It is the future.
- [03:10]
A
It's, it's the present and just the convenience of Carvana. Sorry to blow your mind.
- [03:15]
B
It's all good, happens all the time.
- [03:17]
A
Sell your car the convenient way to Carvana. Pick up. Times may vary and fees may apply. Centra Tech was a company that promised to revolutionize the way people used cryptocurrency. They claimed to be developing a debit card and a digital wallet that would allow users to spend their crypto almost anywhere that Visa or MasterCard was taken. They boasted partnerships with major financial players like Bancorp, Visa and MasterCard. And even secured endorsements from high profile celebrities like Floyd Mayweather and DJ Khaled, creating an illusion of legitimacy and success. To a new investor like Jacob Rensell, this all sounded incredibly promising. The company's white paper promised impressive returns. And with celebrities lending their credibility, the project seemed like a sure bet. But what was being sold as a groundbreaking technology was actually a total sham. Jacob, thank you so much for joining us.
- [04:17]
B
I appreciate that. How are you?
- [04:18]
A
I'm doing well. The bigger question is how are you?
- [04:21]
B
I can't complain. Life has changed a lot obviously and I've been doing pretty, pretty well.
- [04:26]
A
So before all this centered tech, what was your philosophy on investing, particularly in emerging or high growth sectors?
- [04:36]
B
Basically non existent. I was just a 20 year old. You know, you knew all the, the basics, you know, invest in your 401k, try to put away 10% if you can, which never really happened because you're young and you just want to go out and have a good time. So before Centra Tech, absolutely zero experience.
- [04:54]
A
And you are a war veteran.
- [04:56]
B
Yeah.
- [04:56]
A
How did your experience in the service shape your financial outlook? Did you approach risk differently? Did you think about financial security in a particular way because of your service?
- [05:09]
B
That's a great question. First of all, and I appreciate that, I would say it was more midway through my career that I actually started to take a serious look at my finances. And it was after, you know, going to Afghanistan and experiencing some of those things and trying to assess where I was going with my own life and taking a holistic look at everything. But I would say probably midway after Afghanistan and some of the things that we saw out there and is when I started taking things seriously, more seriously, if you will.
- [05:40]
A
I can only imagine. Do you feel like that experience or some of the existential moments you had during your time there, I assume made you more or less conservative financially.
- [05:55]
B
In terms of risk, I would say that it actually did not have a impact in terms of my risk profile. I think it made me take a more serious look at what was I doing and how was I taking my life seriously because others were not coming back. That weighs heavy on you. If you continue your life and others are not well, then maybe you should take it seriously. And so in terms of risk, I would say it didn't have necessarily a determination. More of what I felt and thought about was, how old am I and what kind of risk profile does that afford me because I'm young and I'm able to make riskier choices.
- [06:36]
A
So you came back and you wanted to take it seriously, and at this time you're in your 20s.
- [06:42]
B
Yes.
- [06:43]
A
And so you have a long time horizon, so you can potentially get more risky. Had you actively invested in crypto or anything highly risky before?
- [06:57]
B
No, no, absolutely not. It got in around 2016, 2017 and didn't hear about it until around that time frame. And I know that it was an emerging field, so it wasn't something that I was necessarily familiar with.
- [07:12]
A
So when did you become familiar with Centra Tech? How did you first encounter them?
- [07:18]
B
One day we were in the shop in the military. And this is actually a group effort. So I was working with a couple friends trying to figure out how can we get invested and think about making money. I was on Yahoo.com on some of those investor forums and Ethereum popped across to some kind of emerging financial tech that was coming out. And the way that I actually fell into Centra Tech is because I started doing a lot of research into Bitcoin and ethereum because of Yahoo.com's posting. And I ended up into a bitcoin forum and I started researching different coins. And that's where most of all of the ICOs were posted, was on this forum.
- [08:04]
A
What specifically then drew you to Centra Tech? Were there features or promises around the card or the wallet that convinced you that this company was groundbreaking?
- [08:15]
B
Well, I thought if I'm going to have all this cryptocurrency that I'm going to be purchasing, which I was at the time purchasing, Bitcoin, Ethereum, all these different coins. We were running into an issue of how do you actually spend those coins without having to go through a centralized exchange and off ramping that to some form of fiat or into dollars. And when I was reading through the forums, we saw a debit card that was attached to this coin called Centra Token. And it was purportedly trying to explain that it was a debit card for crypto. And I thought that was a great idea. I thought that was really smart. And so I took a closer look and interest into that.
- [08:56]
A
And what did you find?
- [08:57]
B
Well, I found that they said they were backed by Bancorp, Visa, MasterCard, and they had a lot of statements, you know, saying that they were going to be the number one debit card on the market and that they had all these institutional backing from all these different players.
- [09:13]
A
So, so here you are, Jacob, back from Afghanistan in your 20s, getting really serious about investing. You start looking on Yahoo Finance, I presume, for the ICOs, which are initial coin offerings, kind of like IPOs in the traditional stock market. Then you say, okay, I'm going to really get serious about Bitcoin, Ethereum, some of the bigger coins, but I want to be able to buy things. And I found this company called Centra Card and Sentra Wallet. Then you found Centra Tech. And you think this could be a great fit for you to buy things on a regular basis from your crypto investing.
- [09:54]
B
That all fits additionally with the Centratec card. They were also explaining that you were going to get paid dividends for card usage. Right, because we know that MasterCard, Visa, Amex, all these different card providers, they have transaction, they how they get paid is through the transaction fees with the merchants. And so that was going to be the same idea, right? And that's also how you get dragged into the Centra token, because it's, it's not just the Centra card, it's also the token which is supposed to be the cryptocurrency behind it. And once you went and got the card, you'd be purchasing the tokens themselves as well. You'd be paid out a dividend based upon what you were holding. So much like a staking with Ethereum, how you get paid based on network usage, things of that nature.
- [10:37]
A
And you sign up originally for the card only.
- [10:40]
B
Yeah, I think I purchased maybe a couple thousand dollars worth because I didn't have a lot of money. And I certainly signed up for their ICO at the very beginning. That initial coin offering had different tiers and different cards associated with them. So I could afford the lowest tier card at that time and that I did do that initial coin offering early on.
- [11:08]
A
So you get the card, you get the coin. You see there's a lot of high profile celebrities involved in this thing, right? Floyd Mayweather Jr. DJ Khaled, is this influencing your decision making process to invest in this?
- [11:23]
B
So at the time, right before all of that really kicked off, I was already pretty much bought into it. DJ Khaled and Floyd Mayweather happened pretty much right up to the ICO coming on. And that card additionally hadn't actually been even delivered to me. I never actually received a card and so I had already been in before that. But there was certainly a lot of hype leading up to that point. The valuation of that token itself kind of skyrocketed as well as they were starting to promote that through DJ Khaled, Floyd Mayweather and looking at other opportunities as well.
- [12:00]
A
So the endorsement that they gave leading up to the ico, do you think that gave an added layer of credibility for you, for the company and also all of the partnerships that they said they had with the credit card companies and banks?
- [12:18]
B
Yeah, I think at that time, when you're that young and I'm trying to put myself in that mindset because today it would be a different story, but putting myself back in that timeframe, I would say that it was maybe not as much credibility, but more hype, if that makes sense. It's more about how many eyes are getting on something. Because around that time is when I was starting to really get deep into what was going on with the whole company itself. And I knew that DJ Khaled, Floyd Mayweather was going to increase the value of the token or at least get more people invested into it, which would then raise the price of the token itself as well.
- [12:54]
A
But you're not suspicious?
- [12:56]
B
Generally? No.
- [12:57]
A
How much money do you invest in Centra Tech?
- [12:59]
B
It was around, I think, about $4,700 in total. For me, that felt like everything. I really didn't have anything else to invest at the time. Mint is still $15 a month for premium wireless. And if you haven't made the switch yet, here are 15 reasons why you should. One, it's $15 a month. Two, seriously, it's $15 a month. Three, no big contracts. Four, I use it. Five, my mom used to say, are you, are you playing me off? That's what's happening, right? Okay, give it a try.
- [13:32]
A
@Mintmobile.Com Switch upfront payment $45 for three month plan. $15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first three months only, then full price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See mintmobile.com it's summer time to enjoy long days, lazy nights and great fun because Uber Eats has deals all summer long. So when Hunger strikes. Don't sweat it. Delicious deals are just a tap away on Uber Eats. Enjoy all your favorite grocery items delivered straight to you. Get ice cream, soda and snacks from your favorite stores like Wegmans and cvs. And make the most of every moment. Now that sounds like a good summer order. Now on UberEats Terms apply. Product availability varies by region. See app for details. The golden rule of investing is to diversify. Never put all of your eggs in one basket. But Jacob was all in. So what was it about Centra Tech that convinced him to make such an extreme gamble?
- [14:28]
B
It came from their white paper, right. I looked at the math that they were purporting. You know, you're going to get paid out a certain amount of dividends based upon how many coins you have and how much of the max supply there was going to be and how much usage that they said the card would get. Right. It's kind of like one of those slide decks where people try to tell you, hey, this is how much money we're going to make. And it was really just a hype deck, if you will. And I bought into it and that's how I, I came to the conclusion. I was like, okay, If I invest $4,700 and this is how many tokens I'm going to get down the road, I could make X amount of dollars, which seemed a good investment at the time.
- [15:08]
A
And you started seeing some of that come to fruition?
- [15:10]
B
A little bit, yes. When the hype was going up, you know, at, at one point I think I was sitting upwards of around like $20,000 is, is what I was sitting at.
- [15:19]
A
And then. So you were feeling excited, optimistic.
- [15:24]
B
Very good. I should, honestly, I should have sold out. But the high of the moment was definitely hitting. Absolutely.
- [15:32]
A
Like that was the most amount of.
- [15:33]
B
Money that you ever, ever make.
- [15:36]
A
Ever had.
- [15:37]
B
Yep. At that time.
- [15:38]
A
And so were you making plans based on these perceived games? Like how did this change your personal hopes and dreams and aspirations once you saw this investment for X, really quickly.
- [15:52]
B
You have that blind optimism, right. Where you just think it's going to keep going. And yeah, you start doing all these things where you think about, well, what's your lifestyle going to be in the future? And you know, what am I actually going to put this in if I did sell? And yeah, absolutely, all of those things ran through my head. So looking at moving or buying a car or whatever a young 21, 20 year old male is thinking about purchasing at that time.
- [16:17]
A
Yeah. So you're not thinking about selling?
- [16:20]
B
No, no.
- [16:21]
A
You're thinking about the fact that this is going to continue to grow and you're going to potentially open up new opportunities.
- [16:29]
B
Yeah.
- [16:29]
A
So did you discuss this investment with friends or family?
- [16:34]
B
Yeah, I tried to convince other people to get in to this token. I'm glad. Majority of them did not listen, though, fortunately.
- [16:43]
A
What did they say?
- [16:44]
B
Well, a lot of people just didn't understand crypto at all to begin with, so most people were pretty standoffish. That's normal, especially back then. I mean, I know today we're all looking at Bitcoin's high valuation at 118k, I think is like today or 13. And people don't think it's a joke now, but back then they were very suspicious. Except for maybe some close friends who were also in the same space.
- [17:11]
A
But nobody took you up on the idea of investing themselves?
- [17:16]
B
No, no.
- [17:17]
A
But you were excited?
- [17:19]
B
I was.
- [17:20]
A
And so at its highest point, what did you think that your investment was worth? Was it the 20k or did it go higher?
- [17:30]
B
It was the 20k. Yep.
- [17:32]
A
Did any of your friends or people that you spoke with tell you to maybe take some profits or sell a portion of your investment or were you just not hearing anything about that?
- [17:41]
B
None of them expressed that. But they're all the same age as, as I was, so it was kind of the same. You're in your own little echo sphere. Right. Like it's all the same thinking. So unfortunately, I didn't have a good mentor that could tell me to take profits at that time.
- [17:56]
A
Makes total sense. But you think you found the next big thing and that this is just going to continue to skyrocket, so you stick with it.
- [18:05]
B
Yes.
- [18:07]
A
But things began to change in 2017, in part due to an influential investor in the cryptocurrency community, a man named Cliff. Hai. Cliff had played a significant role in Centra Tech's story. Initially, he endorsed the company, believing it to be a reputable project from a financial institution. And his positive recommendation led to an influx of cash for Centra Tech's ICO or initial coin offering. But soon he realized he had made a huge mistake. At the time Cliff wrote, quote, so sorry to all my readers for the write up on this company. It was due to data masking from a legit credit union by the same name. That has linguistics going back years, end quote. When Cliff sat down to interview Centra Tech co founder Sam Sharma, things started to unravel. So how did Jacob feel when he first heard the interview?
- [19:05]
B
It was terrible at that point. I had already Kind of been doing what Cliff I was doing, which was kind of poking and prodding and trying to figure out what was going on. When that interview happened, Sam really kind of dropped the ball pretty hard on that and did provided no good information. I mean the facade was being ripped off in real time. Everybody was was seeing what was happening and that interview was just a train wreck.
- [19:31]
A
What stood out most to you from the interview?
- [19:34]
B
Well, I think a lot of the excuses that same was making at that time. I think at one point in the interview he said, well, I'm not the tech guy, I don't write the code and I'm just the, you know, the visionary who's pull pulling all the people together. And I remember Cliff just going, okay guy. And Cliff made an honest mistake by initially giving his blessing on it.
- [19:58]
A
Can you explain his influence?
- [20:00]
B
I don't know Cliff High to depth. However, I do know that Cliff High managed some kind of investment newsletter and had a strong following of individuals who really counted on his word for investment advice. And I think he had something to do with some banking back in his early days and that's how he kind of built his community. And when he found Centra Token with his web bots is what he said. He thought it was some kind of bank, the center bank that was creating a debit card. And he was like, oh wow, this is crazy. Didn't do the extra research, much like some of us also bought into the fomo, the fear and of missing out and pushed it out to his following.
- [20:45]
A
So the cracks start showing with Centra Tech. How do you think the leadership of the company, particularly Sam Sharma, did when they were trying to address the spin and the fallout from the interview?
- [21:00]
B
They just denied, denied, denied and just spun it as much as they could. I remember from the Slack channels, Sam was just kind of, this isn't an issue. We're going to move forward. You know, we're answering all the questions and this is what we're doing. And just kind of ignored the whole problem, which seemingly worked. It was kind of like the 10 second, you know, it's in one ear, out the other and if you didn't see it, then it didn't happen sort of deal.
- [21:29]
A
But beyond the interview, it sounds like there were some little things that started to feel weird to you. What began to feel amiss with the company.
- [21:40]
B
I think the first thing that I noticed was when the Bancorp sponsorship was removed from their white paper update and it was removed off of their website and I started asking questions inside of the Slack Channel, and they did not like that.
- [21:58]
A
How did you even notice that?
- [22:00]
B
When you put all your money into something, you become very invested in the emotional aspect of that. Right. And I was certainly emotionally tied to my money at that point. And so that means any piece of information I was looking for to find out, okay, is this going up? Is this going down? What's happening? So anytime there was a change on their website, on the white paper, I was already on it, I'd seen it, and I was trying to figure out what was going on.
- [22:22]
A
Wow. And they also had Visa and MasterCard logos disappear as well.
- [22:28]
B
They did. Those were a little bit later down the road, I believe, when someone actually reached out to Visa or MasterCard, they actually ended up taking them off of their white paper and website. But that was towards the end where everything was starting to come down. I believe that was after I had actually started talking to some lawyers and looking at everything.
- [22:50]
A
So what motivated you to start actively questioning the operations and the leadership? You're talking about this Slack channel where you're asking what happened to the logo? And it didn't go over so well. I mean, you knew that you were going to be at odds with the company. Right. But you still did it.
- [23:09]
B
I think it was my ego, actually, that put me at odds. You know, I started asking these questions which I thought were just normal, hey, why is this gone? Hey, why aren't you guys answering these questions? What's going on with this interview? And they actually banned me from Slack because I was spreading fear, uncertainty, doubt, which is FUD in the community. Raymond Trapani actually banned me, and that's what set this kind of in motion. Everything that would come forward, it was that moment, actually.
- [23:41]
A
Did you create fud? Can you describe the atmosphere or the anxiety level within the Slack channel? Has these red flags continued to pop up?
- [23:52]
B
I would say absolutely. That is technically fud, Right. I'm asking a serious question that the founders can't answer. And if they can't answer it, then everybody starts getting fearful because they're like, oh, well, if you can't answer this, what else is going on? And so they started to crack down on dissent in the Slack channels to remove anybody asking questions and keep it to that tight sphere of, you know, everything's going to go up, everything's going to be great, we're all going to make money.
- [24:18]
A
Which seems to only stoke the fear and the uncertainty and the doubt. Were other investors also voicing some of these doubts, or were you isolated in the concerns that you had?
- [24:28]
B
I would say that probably there were other investors, but just like me, they were most likely banned. I did see some people agree with me, but then, you know, I never saw them again. And it was mostly a lot of investors who were defending the coin. Anything that they could find to defend it, they would do that.
- [24:49]
A
And then you were approached to specifically stop speaking out. What did they say to you?
- [24:54]
B
I was approached after I'd gotten my lawyer. They tried to pay me in Centra Token first. Personally, Sam reached out to me on Facebook, of all places, and offered to pay me to stop attacking the token because I was messaging on every board that I could. I was on the Bitcointalk forum, which is where they initially posted their ICO. I was on their YouTube channel posting, telling people, hey, be careful. I think this is might be a scam. I was on all of their platforms posting. And so Sam Sharma actually reached out and I think he offered me about. I think it was about 25 grand at the time in Centra Tokens, which later we found out that this is a tactic that they were using on other people as well.
- [25:38]
A
But 25 grand was more than you had. That's a lot of money. So how did you react to that?
- [25:43]
B
Well, because I had actually already been in contact with my lawyer, that wasn't going to happen because that puts the entire proceeding in jeopardy. Right. If I was to accept money from the people that we are ultimately suing in a class action lawsuit, that would put everything in kind of a difficult position. And so I wasn't going to accept it. There was no point where I was going to do that.
- [26:06]
A
What did it tell you that he offered you that much money or that much money in Centricoin tell you about the deception or the level of desperation that they were experiencing?
- [26:17]
B
I mean, it definitely shows that they were aware what kind of impact I and the team were having on trying to raise doubts to the coin, myself and others, because they obviously successfully paid off other people to include Cliff High, which was interesting.
- [26:34]
A
Well, when did you decide to get a lawyer? What was the catalyst?
- [26:38]
B
I was obsessed with taking these guys down. They had angered me so much that I was looking at taking them down as much as I could. Collecting information, right? So I had actually spent a period of time collecting data on the company and individuals, looking for all the information that I could and anything that could prove my point, that I was right, that it was a fraud to the point where I had access to personal details. I figured out pretty early on that Raymond Trapani used his grandfather with a Pseudonym to become the new CEO of the company. Once they killed off Michael Edwards, all these different things, and I was putting together all these facts, I was able to get access to their private socials and things of that nature that had no connection directly to the company and started uncovering a whole bunch of information. And what had happened was I got over it, actually. Once I started gaining access to specific things that I should not have access to, I started to realize, hey, maybe I'm taking this a little too far. And so I actually put it away for a little bit, for a couple of weeks. And this isn't in the documentary, this isn't anywhere else. But one day I was just on Google and I got a sponsored advertisement that was directed at people who had searched keywords of Centra Tech. And I had searched quite a bit. So I was the perfect target for that sponsored ad. And. And it was from ZLK law firm. They were asking if you had any information. And I called them up and I said, hey, I have all this information. What do you think? And I remember the partner at the time, I can't remember his name off the top, but he said, you are the perfect person. And this never happens. Nobody comes with all this information. This is just perfect. They thought it was perfect.
- [28:27]
A
I mean, so perfect that you became the lead plaintiff in the class action lawsuit. How did it feel to be at the forefront of this legal battle representing potentially thousands of other defrauded investors at.
- [28:41]
B
The time, you know, I. I didn't even cross my mind. I was just more, let's take these guys down. I didn't even understand the gravity until, you know, you start hearing the personal testimonies from some of the affected victims, some of the conversations that we would have with John Cariel, who was my legal representation at the time, who was running that case. I didn't really understand, you know, I was too young. I was kind of stupid. Stupid kid, if you will, still. But that was put into perspective later on.
- [29:10]
A
What kind of stories did you start.
- [29:12]
B
Hearing at the very end where there were witness testimonies before Sam and the other founders were either found guilty and charged or not, they had all these witness testimonies. And I remember there was a poor woman, she invested her child's entire college fund and lost everything in the token. And that one was really sad. And she was bawling during the testimony. It was just not. That was terrible.
- [29:40]
A
And at this point, did you still have money in Central Tech?
- [29:44]
B
No, I was completely out. Either right before or right after the New York Times posting so. And I believe that was in October of 2017 is when that was.
- [29:55]
A
Do you remember what made you pull your money out? What was the final straw?
- [30:01]
B
It was that documentary. It was right as that post. I was like, okay, there's no way that I'm gonna make any money off of this. There's no way that this is gonna be anything going into the future. I was already on the edge. There was a point where I was like, okay, well maybe I could short the coin and make a whole bunch of money. Maybe there's all these different levers that I could do. But eventually I was just, you know what, I'm just gonna pull out and be done.
- [30:25]
A
How much was in there at the time?
- [30:27]
B
I ended up losing a total of $370. So if I invested about 4700, it would be roughly 4400, maybe 4330, I think.
- [30:40]
A
And was the process of getting your money out weird? Were there delays?
- [30:45]
B
It was weird. The token was still listed on exchanges so you could still convert it. But the price of the token was dramatically coming down. So finding buyers during that period of time is difficult because the books, the bid and ask yes are moving quickly. So it was hard to fill.
- [31:07]
A
But you did.
- [31:08]
B
Yes.
- [31:09]
A
And you came out relatively unscathed.
- [31:12]
B
Yes. Better than others, of course. Put us in a box. Go ahead. That just gives us something to break out of because the next generation 2025 GMC terrain elevation is raising the standard of what comes standard. As far as expectations go, why meet them when you can shatter them? What we choose to challenge, we challenge completely. We are professional grade. Visit gmc.com to learn more.
- [31:45]
A
Abercrombie Kids is bringing the ultimate first day energy back to school. School it all starts with on trend outfits for that front door photo shoot. Plus the coolest tees, shorts and jeans to take them through the rest of the year. Get them ready for their close up and keep them comfy too. Make this grade their best one yet. Shop all things back to school in store online and in the app. Jacob was one of the lucky ones. He managed to get out before the collapse, escaping with most of his money. But for him, the fight was not over. He became obsessed with exposing the fraud and holding the company's founders accountable. And so he became the lead plaintiff in a class action lawsuit.
- [32:34]
B
So that lasted for it felt like ever. We went back and forth and so in the very beginning we were working directly with Centra Tech's legal counsel. At one point they actually were going to offer us A settlement privately where they were going to try and buy us out. But right before that happened, the SEC ended up filing against them as well. And they copied the entire docket that my lawyers had pushed out with a little bit of amendments and tweaks here and there, but it was the same exact information. And then they charged them as well for securities fraud.
- [33:11]
A
So what was the fraud? What was actually going on behind the scenes?
- [33:15]
B
Well, they were claiming that they had a working debit card that you could put your money into, and they were saying that they had all these different backers. And ultimately that in and of itself is a fraud, because you're lying in order to get people to invest into something. Eventually we would find out later on that they would start this company on a lie, not have any actual technology to go against to prove that they have anything working and try to fake it till you make it, essentially.
- [33:43]
A
So they never had MasterCard and they never had Visa and they never had Bancorp, but they fraudulently used the logos.
- [33:51]
B
Correct. There's some other information that isn't necessarily public, but they were trying. At one point in time, I was able to get access to a private Skype account, and I could see what Sam Sarma was doing and who he was talking to. And so at one point in time, Sam was trying to do a prepaid debit card and try to pass it off as the same card. And then in the back end, trying to reconcile the crypto exchange side with the debit card side. So he was trying to work something on that end. So that's the only time where I've seen him actually have something where maybe he could get that connected. But we never saw anything go into production, not one card.
- [34:32]
A
So they didn't have the partnerships, they said they didn't have the backing, they said they didn't have the tech, they said, what of all the fraud do you find most egregious?
- [34:42]
B
The most egregious fraud would probably be the footage of, like, Floyd Mayweather. DJ Khaled. Using the cards is probably the most flagrant use of fraud, because none of that was real. It was all fake. And so it looked like on the surface they had something that worked when truly they had no tech. None of it was there, and none of it actually worked.
- [35:10]
A
So it was all being faked, the whole thing was a lie and any footage was just pretend?
- [35:16]
B
Yes. I mean, there's no way around it. It is, yes. That none of it was working, and they were never able to produce anything that was working. And if they did. They would have produced it in the lawsuit to prove otherwise, which they did not because they could not.
- [35:30]
A
The legal outcome for the case included sentences for the founders efforts to create a remission fund. Do you feel like that was justice for you and the other victims of Centra Tech?
- [35:46]
B
I would say for me it wasn't necessarily about the money at the end. It was more about making sure that they paid the price. Because ultimately I only lost $370. But for others probably not. I don't believe that they got all of the funds to begin with. I think there's still funds out there and I don't think people were made whole through the remission process.
- [36:11]
A
So all in all, how much did people lose?
- [36:14]
B
We could speculate on that because the government sold the 100,000 Ethereum at I think it was either 400 or 40 bucks. And we know that today that same Ethereum is worth. Should have hung onto it, yeah, 3500. So that's hard to say. However, I do know that they raised upwards into the 200 millions, right, $250 million. And they only secured 100,000 Ethereum. And at that time that was 40 million, 50 million, something like that. Where's the rest of the money?
- [36:47]
A
Where do you think it is?
- [36:49]
B
I don't want to speculate but I've heard rumors that some individuals are holding it because we know that a perfect a hundred thousand Ethereum is not the total sum of what they got. You're going to tell me that they had a cold wallet that had a perfect 100,000 in it and yet they were running this business right, which has operations that you have to fund, which has all these different things and you have to pay for the influencers. There's a whole bunch of different expenses that go with that. So where's the rest of the money? Why didn't they seize any of that or ask for their financials and provide that in the depositions? I think there's a lot more money out there. Who has it? That's the question. And where is it? That's an even better question.
- [37:31]
A
Did you think the suit or the government should have gone after the influencers like Floyd Mayweather or DJ Khaled?
- [37:40]
B
I think that they ended up doing that more broadly later on. I would have to look back but I know that others were getting charged because they were not disclosing that they were being paid for those advertisements. And I think that did come later.
- [37:54]
A
So what would Justice Served really look like for you in this situation? If this is not about your 300 bucks. This is obviously about the principal.
- [38:04]
B
I think that I have to leave that up to the courts to really try to find the best outcome, because that's why they're there. Right. I mean, even though Raymond got time served, and I don't necessarily agree with that, and I don't like his sentencing, I have to trust our judicial system. We have to believe that our judicial system stands to serve the people. And I think at the time, this was a kind of a landmark case. Right. There was no precedence to this.
- [38:31]
A
Yeah. This was pre ftx, right?
- [38:33]
B
Yeah. And, you know, I think everybody was just doing their best to figure out what was going on. It's the same thing in the judicial system. They have a lot of different thinking to figure out, well, what does this actually merit to how much loss was actually suffered and how do we quantify it? That's a great question. I don't think Raymond should have got time served.
- [38:53]
A
Why not?
- [38:54]
B
He was a pretty flagrant character in the whole case, and he ended up being worse than I thought. I didn't necessarily know these three people, and the Netflix documentary actually showed me more information than I anticipated. I knew they were bad. I knew what they were doing was wrong. It's kind of hard to gauge what a person's character is until they start talking and they start showing their true colors. And I think Raymond's character was probably one of the worst. I think that Farkas, Robert, I think that his character was more of someone who just didn't really grasp what was going on necessarily. Like, maybe not like a bad person, like not trying to go out and screw people over. And he still did, ended up doing a year. Right. And Raymond, who, you know, snitched on everybody, which I understand that helped move the case forward, ultimately got time served, and he probably at that time had one of the worst characters.
- [39:57]
A
So it sounds like you believe some justice would include time in prison.
- [40:04]
B
Absolutely.
- [40:05]
A
After having time to process everything you have gone through with Centra Tech, what is the biggest lesson or takeaway you learned from this entire experience?
- [40:15]
B
People ask me that question a lot. It changes every time because of what we're seeing currently in today's climate. Right. Maybe a couple years ago, I would have said, do your research. Do more research before you make an investment. I think it's different phases of life changes the way that we feel and think about different things. And I would say today the biggest lesson is if you're going to make a decision to invest in something that fits your values, make sure. You're checking the character of the people that are involved. Right. If I would have checked the character of those three individuals and really taken a look at their backgrounds, I probably could have saved myself a lot of trouble.
- [40:55]
A
But how do you do that?
- [40:56]
B
It's trial and error typically. Right. We all have to pay our dues. I think that's what it's called is paying your dues early on and making mistakes and try to make as many mistakes as you can, but that aren't going to have lasting impacts later on into your life. I made a lot of mistakes which have led me to the success that I know today. I wouldn't want to change anything. Right. And I'm very fortunate to have been able to make those mistakes at the age that I am or was and be able to bounce back from that to make better decisions going forward.
- [41:31]
A
So the advice today wouldn't be do more research, because you did a ton of research. It would be try to understand as much as you possibly can about the founders.
- [41:45]
B
I think that's a good place to start. Right. A CEO is leading an organization, taking a look at their character and the people that they are and you know, looking at the mission statement of whatever it is that you're trying to invest in. So I mean, obviously some companies are so large that even if you did look at those things, it's not like you're going to understand everything to their day to day operations. But like if it's a small group, something that's emergent, I think that character of those individuals is pretty important in understanding like where they're coming from. And trying to make a speculative decision on the team that's running a company would probably be a better place to start, at least in this scenario that we're talking about right now.
- [42:20]
A
So what's your big message in the takeaway from your experience with Centra Tech, what do you want people to know? Why are you talking about this now?
- [42:28]
B
I'm talking about it because it's an interesting story. I didn't think I was going to find myself in this position in life for sure. Putting all of my money away into one coin and then exposing a fraud. I think the takeaway is really that there are people out there that don't have your best interest in mind and that you should be trying your best to make sure that you don't get screwed over, that somebody doesn't steal what is yours that you worked hard for. Even if somebody does get one over on you, maybe you can catch them in the act and then take them to court and save the day. Hopefully.
- [43:03]
A
Jacob thank you so much for joining us today to tell your story of taking them to court and saving the day.
- [43:13]
B
I appreciate it. Thank you so much Nicole.
- [43:21]
A
Scams, Money and Murder Murder is hosted by me, Nicole Lapin and is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. My guest today was Jacob Renzel. Here at Crime House. We want to thank each and every one of you for your continued support. If you like what you heard here today, reach out on all social media rimehouse and don't forget to rate, review and follow Scams, Money and Murder wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference and for ad free listening plus early access and bonus content. Subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts. This episode was brought to life by the Scams, Money and Murder team, Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benedon, Stacey Warrenker, Sarah Camp and Paul Libeskin.
- [44:06]
B
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- [44:27]
A
If you love Scams, Money and Murder, check out our Crime House original Conspiracy Theories, Cults and Crimes for the world's darkest truths. Follow Conspiracy Theories, Cults and Crimes now wherever you get your podcasts and for ad free listening and early access to episodes, subscribe to to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts.
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B
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