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- [00:01]
Kaylin Moore
Hi, it's Kaylin Moore. Crime House is home to the most gripping true crime shows. And I would love for you to check out my show that I co host with Morgan Apsher Clues. Want to sneak past the crime scene tape to explore the key evidence behind some of the most gripping true crime cases? Well, each week on Clues, we open up a new case file and dig into the key evidence that either solved or left authorities baffled behind the most infamous criminal cases. Join us every Wednesday and listen to Clues on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [00:44]
Morgan Apsher
This is Crime House.
- [00:46]
Molly McLaughlin
They saw how extravagant she was on screen and they were questioning it. If she had hidden it, who knows if she would have ever been caught.
- [01:05]
Nicole Lapin
As they say, money makes the world go round. What many don't talk about is the time it made people's worlds come to a screeching halt. Whether it's greed, desperation or a thirst for power, money can make even the most unassuming people do unthinkable things. And sometimes those acts can be deadly. This is Scams, Money and Murder, a Crime House original. I'm your host Nicole Lapin. Every Thursday we alternate between covering infamous money motivated crimes and gripping interviews with the experts or those who were directly involved themselves. Crime House exists because of you. Please rate, review and follow Scams, Money and Murder wherever you get your podcasts and for early ad, free access and bonus content, subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts.
- [02:03]
State Farm
This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Knowing you could be saving money for the things you really want, like that dream house or ride, is a great feeling. That's why the State Farm Personal Price Plan can help you save when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with a personal price plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer availability, amount of discounts, and savings and eligibility vary by state.
- [02:30]
Nicole Lapin
Close your eyes, exhale, feel your body relax and let go of whatever you're carrying today. Well, I'm letting go of the worry that I wouldn't get my new contacts in time for this class. I got them delivered free from 1-800-contacts. Oh my gosh, they're so fast. And breathe. Oh, sorry. I almost couldn't breathe when I saw the discount they gave me on my first order.
- [02:52]
Morgan Apsher
Oh, sorry.
- [02:54]
Nicole Lapin
Namaste.
- [02:55]
1-800-Contacts
Visit 1-800-contacts.com today to save on your first order.
- [02:58]
Molly McLaughlin
1-800-Contacts.
- [03:01]
Nicole Lapin
On the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, Jen Shaw painted the picture of extravagant wealth but under this carefully crafted facade, there was a dark truth. Jen's lavish lifestyle was built on the cruel deception and financial ruin of countless victims. Victims. One of those victims is Molly McLaughlin. Today, Molly joins us to recount how she became entangled in this elaborate scam and what it truly cost her, not just financially, but emotionally.
- [03:32]
Morgan Apsher
Molly, thank you so much for being with us.
- [03:34]
Molly McLaughlin
Well, thank you for having me. It's a pleasure.
- [03:36]
Morgan Apsher
We're going to dive a little bit deeper into a tricky, difficult period of your life. So we really appreciate your willingness to share your story. I'll just dive into it. In 2016, after a few years of financial hardship, it sounds like you were looking for opportunities online so you could work from home. What was your mindset going into that time regarding online work?
- [04:00]
Molly McLaughlin
Like you had said, yeah, I wanted to work online. I was getting kind of tired of having to always go to an office. And since I was spending more and more time at home, I became more of a homebody. And so I wanted to do something where I could work at home but then still have the freedom to go do stuff that needed to get done.
- [04:27]
Morgan Apsher
And during that time, you stumbled on something called dropshipping, which is a whole world in TikTok and Instagram of people saying you can make millions of dollars dropshipping. If somebody doesn't know what that is, can you explain it?
- [04:42]
Molly McLaughlin
Basically, it would be if you would have an ad from a company, depending on who you are working for. A lot of times this is as independent, but you would clock into whoever you were hired for, say for that day, and then they would send you this ad that you would then like drop ship into like articles and stuff. So anytime you pull up an article right smack in the middle of the, you might see an ad that's drop shipping because they'll drop an ad in there. People then would look at that ad and would click on it and then take it to the website of whatever the product was. It could be a good way to make some money, you know, because you could drop a lot of ads in a few hours. You could work maybe two, four hours from what I was seeing, and you could make several hundred dollars in just two to four hours.
- [05:43]
Morgan Apsher
Is that what it was about, this concept that made you think this could be the next step for your career?
- [05:50]
Molly McLaughlin
Yeah, I saw that and thought, hey, this is something I can do. I could easily spend again two to four hours, five days a week just dropping ads in for companies and then maybe make say $500 in, say that four hours and then say, okay, I'm done, and then do it the next day and the next day and whatnot. So that by the end of the week, you know, I'm sitting at like, could be a thousand dollars or more and then be able to repeat it the following week. Not a lot of time for a good amount of money. Yeah, for sure.
- [06:28]
Morgan Apsher
It's an easy passive income. When you saw the initial a hundred dollar cost for training, what went through your mind? Did it feel reasonable or any alarm bells?
- [06:37]
Molly McLaughlin
At that time, I think I had maybe a slight question mark go off, but for the most part, I thought, oh, you know, that doesn't seem too bad. You know, I've had to pay for online classes and stuff before. And I figured, oh, $100 is pretty reasonable. You take two or three classes, you're paying more. It didn't seem that outrageous, at least at the time.
- [07:04]
Nicole Lapin
But once they had Molly's initial investment, the real game began. The conversation quickly shifted from simple dropshipping to a grander vision of owning her very own online business. So what happened? After Molly paid the initial hundred bucks.
- [07:21]
Molly McLaughlin
They basically did talk to me about the drop shipping, and then they were kind of smooth about it and said, you know, hey, have you thought about your own online business? Which at the time I had. And I was like, that's not a bad idea. Then they just kind of start showing you the benefits, telling you how much money you can make. Again, it's one of those things where once it's set up and everything, you really don't have to do much work because you would have the product on your website, but all of the business would be through the company. So you'd have your website set up. Let's say you were going to sell shoes or something, and you would have it set up. People would see the shoes, they'd click on the shoes. You, of course, wouldn't keep the items in stock. It would then take you to whoever, you know, produced the shoes, and then.
- [08:18]
Morgan Apsher
They would drop ship it.
- [08:19]
Molly McLaughlin
Yeah.
- [08:20]
Morgan Apsher
So drop shipping also refers to how a product is fulfilled.
- [08:24]
Molly McLaughlin
Correct.
- [08:25]
Morgan Apsher
You don't actually hold the inventory. A warehouse holds it, they ship it out. And at that point, you're referring to they. Who did you understand they to be at the time?
- [08:36]
Molly McLaughlin
At the time, the company was called Internet teaching and training specialists, and they were the ones who were kind of showing me the ropes and teaching me how to have a successful website and a successful online business.
- [08:55]
Nicole Lapin
Molly believed she was working with a legitimate company, learning the ropes from experts. But Internet teaching and Training Specialists was just one of the many names these scammers operated under. And Molly was about to be introduced to a much more expensive tier of their services. But first, she needed to decide how bad she wanted it.
- [09:19]
Morgan Apsher
So you bought into this idea of starting your own online business. They told you you need a niche.
- [09:25]
Nicole Lapin
You landed on clocks and mirrors.
- [09:28]
Morgan Apsher
Why clocks and mirrors?
- [09:29]
Molly McLaughlin
I like clocks. I like mirrors. I thought, hey, you know, people can always have more clocks or have more mirrors also, because one thing they had said, you know, to create your website and to get on the front page, you want to have something more unique. You know, you type in silver dress shoes or something, and you're going to get a thousand hits, if not more. So things like clocks, things like mirrors? Yeah, people are going to shop for clocks and mirrors, but it might not be as frequent as shopping for clothes or shoes. So they wanted you to have something more unique that people could find quicker.
- [10:12]
Morgan Apsher
And the person you spoke with showed you their website and no red flags at that point, right? No alarms. It all sounded pretty legit, correct?
- [10:24]
Molly McLaughlin
Yes. I don't remember what it was, but I know I was pretty impressed by it. I thought, oh, this is a nice website that he has. I believe it had something to do with sports.
- [10:33]
Morgan Apsher
Were there any specific details or assurances that they gave you that made you feel secure and convinced that they were legit?
- [10:42]
Molly McLaughlin
They said the tools that they would show me and teach me would get me on the front page of Google. And I thought, oh, that's pretty good. So that they would hit things up, I guess, maybe in their algorithms or whatnot. So again, someone types in a certain type of clock, boom, you show up. Maybe you're first on Google or second, but it's showing you there on that front page.
- [11:11]
Nicole Lapin
With Molly now fully invested in the dream of her own online business and the promise of a coveted spot on Google's front page, the real pitch began. While many of these companies offered tiered programs, their strategy is always to push.
- [11:27]
Morgan Apsher
For the most expensive option.
- [11:29]
Nicole Lapin
For Molly, that was a $10,000 thousand dollars program.
- [11:34]
Molly McLaughlin
They immediately went right to the 10,000, which, of course, in retrospect, I feel like was a red flag because, you know, some people might not want all of the bells and whistles and they might want smaller things.
- [11:48]
Morgan Apsher
What did they tell you to try to get you to pay 10 grand?
- [11:51]
Molly McLaughlin
They said when you're starting your own business, you do have to spend some money. And they used the example of when someone starts a business and they have a brick and mortar location, obviously you're going to spend money for brick and mortar location, and you're going to spend a lot. So they were trying to assuage any fears that you would have with 10,000, because 10,000 still a lot by basically saying, you know, you are online, you don't have a physical location. It's going to cost you money to start your own business, but not as much as a physical building.
- [12:37]
Morgan Apsher
The argument that you have to spend money to make money, one of the oldest tricks in the book. Did you have to make the decision quickly? Did they give you time to think about it? Did they put pressure on you to commit at that time?
- [12:49]
Molly McLaughlin
They did. You know, it was one of those where, yeah, you couldn't really sleep on it and everything. You had to go ahead and make the decision, which, of course, when it comes to something financial like that, you should never do. You should always sleep on it. So another red flag right there. They were definitely putting the pressure on to get you to sign up for the largest package and not really giving you the time to think about it too much, all the while trying to persuade you and say, hey, you know, this is a great idea and you'll save so much and look at how much you'll make. You'll make it all back in a year.
- [13:31]
Nicole Lapin
The pressure to make immediate decisions without any time to think about it or consult with anyone else is a classic hallmark of a scam. It creates a false sense of urgency, which prevents victims from realizing they're being rushed into a financially devastating decision. So what did they say to get.
- [13:51]
Morgan Apsher
Molly to commit right then and there?
- [13:53]
Molly McLaughlin
Unfortunately, I don't remember that part, but I think it was kind of like a limited opportunity that wasn't going to stick around. So they put the pressure on you to sign up and not give you the time because, you know, obviously they're worried if they allow you time to think about it, you're going to say no, and then they can't scam you.
- [14:15]
Morgan Apsher
It's a very, very common scam tactic, for sure, to create this false sense of urgency. So after Molly, you invested the initial 10 grand, which is a lot of money, you found out that your information was sold to other things, other companies that started calling you and pressuring you to buy more programs and more things. Can you explain how that happened, how quickly that happened, how you realized that that was going on?
- [14:45]
Molly McLaughlin
Basically, the next day we got things set up initially, and then the next day, other companies were calling and saying, you know, hey, we heard, you know, you're going to have A website and then starting to kind of talk to you about things you will need and how they can help improve the website and the business to, you know, get you to that front page of Google and to get you to be successful and make all this money.
- [15:16]
Morgan Apsher
So they were calls that were ancillary to what you spent 10 grand on website services, SEO products, those types of things?
- [15:26]
Molly McLaughlin
Correct.
- [15:26]
Nicole Lapin
And how much did you end up.
- [15:28]
Morgan Apsher
Spending on those products?
- [15:30]
Molly McLaughlin
Total lost was about $44,000. With all of the. The companies that I had talked to.
- [15:41]
Morgan Apsher
Did you have $44,000?
- [15:43]
Molly McLaughlin
Nope.
- [15:45]
Morgan Apsher
So where did you get it?
- [15:47]
Molly McLaughlin
I was always one that was good with credit cards and stuff. And so I had a high limit on a few credit cards. I would put the purchases on that, which was another tactic that they use. They would say, you know, put it on a credit card or open up another one and do that. So I would open up a credit card and put. Maybe there would be a couple thousand on that card. So, hey, there's 5,000 on this card. Put that on the card and then that could possibly pay for what you're doing. Or it'll be a start, you know, and then we'll move to the next card for you to put the rest on.
- [16:27]
Morgan Apsher
So you said you were good with credit cards until then. Had you accumulated any debt or. It sounds like you were paying them off, so they were increasing your limit. You had the flexibility because of good behavior to now accumulate debt, correct?
- [16:46]
Molly McLaughlin
Yeah, I always kept them low. I might have a couple hundred on there, but then I would always turn around and pay it off in a reasonable amount of time.
- [16:56]
Morgan Apsher
I mean, as someone who's been in a massive amount of debt myself and then getting out of it, never wanting to go back. Can you walk me through the emotional experience of now going into this much debt after not being in it, you.
- [17:11]
Molly McLaughlin
Have fear, you have uncertainty. At the time, there was also a bit of excitement because, you know, before obviously knowing that it was a scam and thinking, oh, I'm going to have my own business. I remember telling that to my boyfriend and being all excited about what was going on, going to happen. But definitely fear and worry, especially as more companies called and wanted money and oh, yeah, okay, well, I need these products because like we were discussing, they're very good at persuading you into things you really don't need. But they'll say, oh, you'll need this for your website. This is what will make you stand out and people will remember it. You want that? As time went on, I started fear and a bit of disgust, actually. And sometimes I even felt physically sick, especially knowing that things were increasing and nothing was getting done. It's Wednesday. Adams, I see you're trying to distract yourself from your own banal thoughts. That may help. Here's a recording thing made of my latest root Canal.
- [18:41]
Morgan Apsher
Wednesday. Season two begins August 6th, only on Netflix.
- [18:48]
1-800-Contacts
This episode is brought to you by J.C. penney. And if you've been to JCPenney recently. Yes, JCPenney, you'll know it's becoming the way to find good clothes for prices that still make sense. They've got hidden gems for everyone and every budget, with deals and rewards that actually make a dent. If you already shop JCPenney, you feel like you know a secret. But if not, it's time to ask. Wait, am I sleeping on JCPenney? Shopjcpenney.com Yes, JCPenney.
- [19:20]
Nicole Lapin
The excitement Molly initially felt quickly turned to dread as the promises of her own online business remained unfulfilled and the financial burden grew heavier with each passing day.
- [19:32]
Morgan Apsher
What were the first red flags that started to creep up telling you something was seriously wrong?
- [19:39]
Molly McLaughlin
One company was pressuring. I had given him like, half the payment. It was for the blog, which doesn't really make much sense, but again, it was one of those where I thought, maybe it's something you could do. Some websites do have blogs where you can read people's stories. It might be something fun. I'd given half the payment on that and obviously didn't have the money. Things were increasing and he was pressuring for more. Things were starting to go off in my head about that because, you know, I was telling him, I don't have it, my cards are maxed, and everything just kind of spiraled. At that point, I started realizing that this was not something that a legit business should be trying to help others with.
- [20:39]
Morgan Apsher
So you were running the business at this point?
- [20:43]
Molly McLaughlin
Supposedly. I mean, it never got off the ground. They had designed, like a mock website and everything, and that was about as far as we got.
- [20:51]
Morgan Apsher
So how long did you keep trying to make the business work or get off the ground after you started noticing the red flags?
- [20:59]
Molly McLaughlin
Just a few months. Like three to four months maybe. Once things really started to come into perspective, I just stopped with Internet teaching and training. We had been taking classes. There was like 12 or 16 classes that you would take to teach you how to get your web, your webpage on Google, and, you know, tools you'd need to have a successful business. And I know at one point I believe I Just skipped the meeting where I sent a message to my coach and I said, hey, I'm not going to be able to make it. And then, you know, I just didn't respond back to any attempts after that because I thought, nope, I can't do this. This is not real. This is not legit.
- [21:50]
Morgan Apsher
So you never actually sold a mirror.
- [21:53]
Molly McLaughlin
Or a clock, correct? Yeah, I had reached out to a couple of companies about, you know, collaborating, having them possibly sell on the website, but it never even got that far. The website never even really went live. They just. We just had the mock website up. I had bought the domain name. They just kind of showed me what it was going to look like, but I don't think it would actually go live until, you know, you had finished all the classes.
- [22:21]
Morgan Apsher
Was there something specific that made you ultimately walk away from the scam entirely, or was it just the accumulation of so many oddities and red flags?
- [22:33]
Molly McLaughlin
The amount of money. Yeah, and the red flags. Basically, the thing that really struck a chord was one of the companies was looking kind of like at the algorithms and everything, and. And he said, this code isn't written right. You're not going to get on the front page of Google with this. And I thought they said that I would. And the guy said, no, you're not. And to be fair, some of these companies that they were affiliated with might not have even known that these guys were a scam. Some of these could literally be legit companies. And so, you know, obviously, they're just doing their job, which is what I think happened with this guy. Because obviously, if he was part of this scam, I don't think he would have said that. Maybe he would have as a way to try to get more money, but the way he said it, I thought, this isn't right. These guys are supposed to create this website so that it'll be their front page of Google somewhere. And this guy is saying that the algorithms are all wrong.
- [23:47]
Morgan Apsher
Yeah. You're like, that was what I paid for.
- [23:50]
Molly McLaughlin
Yeah.
- [23:51]
Morgan Apsher
So what steps did you take after that? Did you report it?
- [23:55]
Molly McLaughlin
At the time, I didn't really know where to go or how to report it, so I basically just kind of stopped and just tried to figure out a way to start paying off the debt that I had then increased.
- [24:15]
Morgan Apsher
You just wanted to cut your losses.
- [24:17]
Molly McLaughlin
Basically, because like I said, I mean, this is back in 2016, I was a little more naive than I am now. And so while most people would think, oh, I'm going to go ahead and report them, for me, it Just really didn't enter into my head. And I think also part of it was just, at least at the time, I also didn't want the hassle of figuring out where to go to report and things like that. Nowadays. It wouldn't be a problem. I would report with no hesitation.
- [24:45]
Morgan Apsher
You've lived a lot of life in those 10 years.
- [24:47]
Molly McLaughlin
Yeah. It's funny how, you know, perspectives change.
- [24:52]
Nicole Lapin
While Molly grappled with the immediate aftermath, the scam had actually unlocked a Pandora's box of issues. For her, the journey to recovery would be far more, more complicated than she ever could have imagined.
- [25:06]
Molly McLaughlin
At one point, while everything was going on and feeling in debt and everything, I had been contacted by a company. I will point out that sometimes, I guess a lot of these companies, frog companies are more out west. I've heard, like Utah and stuff like that. Which Utah. Makes sense, Jen Sha. They operate out there. But I was contacted by someone in Florida who claimed that they would help get my money back and trusted them at the time and turned out they were part of the scam as well. So that part was fun.
- [25:44]
Morgan Apsher
Oh, my God. When was it?
- [25:46]
Molly McLaughlin
2016. And only found out because the FTC had told me, because I mentioned to them, oh, I was working with this company, and they said, no, they're part of it.
- [25:58]
Morgan Apsher
Did you give them money?
- [25:59]
Molly McLaughlin
Yeah, unfortunately. Because their goal was you pay them and that. They were kind of like investigators and they investigate these companies and take them down and they knew all about it and everything, but, yeah, nothing ever happened. And they kept asking for more money.
- [26:18]
Morgan Apsher
That's unthinkable. So not only did they scam you, but then they scammed you to try and help you from their own scam. There's a special place in hell for those people.
- [26:29]
Molly McLaughlin
Yeah.
- [26:30]
Morgan Apsher
And what process did you go through to address the 44k?
- [26:35]
Molly McLaughlin
Like I said, I would try to pay it off. You know, I'd get my paycheck and then I'd go and make whatever payment I could maybe pay on, like two cards one week and then two other cards the next week, obviously to pay down what I could. I did try to see about possibly doing, like, a consolidation loan just to get everything under one roof. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get one. And sometimes it was, you know, asking people. I think I did ask my parents for a bit of money one time just so I could make some of the payments. So, yeah, basically it was just, you know, asking for money, trying to pay what I can, sometimes even purposely delaying a month or two, and then Trying to make up that way when you might have like a little extra money.
- [27:33]
Morgan Apsher
I mean, spending so much of your paycheck to pay down debt must have a ripple effect on your daily life. How did it affect how you were living?
- [27:43]
Molly McLaughlin
It was quite horrible. I was having trouble making my rent, so I'd have to maybe ask my parents or ask my boyfriend. Hey, can you help me out this month? I know at one point I was so broke my account was negative. And I remember I was in my bed at night crying because I had a migraine and I couldn't even afford headache medicine. So I was like, I, I can't do this. I should be able to go buy like a four or five dollar bottle of Excedrin migraine to help with my migraine.
- [28:24]
Morgan Apsher
And I'm sure the migraine was because of all of this.
- [28:27]
Molly McLaughlin
Yeah.
- [28:27]
Morgan Apsher
When you were asking people to help you, did you feel embarrassed that you got caught up in this drop shipping scam? How did you talk about it? Did you tell your friends and family about it?
- [28:42]
Molly McLaughlin
Yeah, I remember mentioning it to my parents. I think they understood, but they're also older, so technology can still be kind of confusing for them. So I don't think they totally understood where I was coming from, but obviously they understood it was a scam. But I felt ashamed. And a lot of times I didn't really talk about it. You know, I might make vague posts on Facebook and stuff like that.
- [29:14]
Morgan Apsher
How vague are we talking? Like a random quote?
- [29:17]
Molly McLaughlin
Well, at one point I had a meme of like someone who was in water drowning, all you could see is like their hand. And basically I said, you know, the, this is me right now or something, just kind of drowning because of drowning in debt. I was showing my shame basically because obviously I felt bad about it. And the only way to kind of get it out sometimes was social media where you can talk to people. Again, my parents didn't really understand. My boyfriend was sympathetic. You know, he did what he could. But you know, even asking him, I'm the type of person that is like, I don't like to ask for money. You know, I don't like the thought of being in debt. And suddenly, not only that was I $44,000 in debt, but then I was also kind of in debt to him too, in a way because he was helping me out.
- [30:10]
Morgan Apsher
It's so hard to ask for help and it's so complicated to ask for money. I was just curious about the post that you did at the time because I didn't know if you had talked specifically about the company at that point publicly.
- [30:27]
Molly McLaughlin
I had not. I mean, I might have said one or two things in passing, but I hadn't really posted anything. I don't even think I went to the Better Business Bureau to see. I know for a few of the companies I did check if they had like a rating or something, but I didn't really do anything. I didn't really warn people because no one else really was in my situation. So I kind of felt alone in that respect as well.
- [30:58]
Ryan Reynolds
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- [31:21]
Nicole Lapin
Of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to 15 per month required New customer offer for first 3 months only Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of network's busy.
- [31:27]
J.C. Penney
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- [31:29]
Abercrombie
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- [31:59]
Nicole Lapin
But as more information about this scam came to light, Molly discovered that she actually wasn't alone. It turned out that a lot of people had fallen victim to the same scheme. And then in 2020, a major public figure emerged connected to it all. Jen Shaw from the Real Housewives of Salt Lake City. Before all the news broke, did Molly.
- [32:24]
Morgan Apsher
Have any idea who Jen Shaw was?
- [32:27]
Molly McLaughlin
No. Had never had any interest in any of the Real Housewives shows. So when her name was first mentioned I thought, who is that? I have no clue who you're talking about. So unfortunately in that sense, no. I mean in a way I feel like it's good that I didn't know because then I didn't feel like I was scammed in that sense. But at the same time I was just did feel kind of like an idiot for not knowing who she was either.
- [32:55]
Morgan Apsher
Listen, I've never seen a Real Housewives of any city show, so you're definitely not alone. But in 2022, you actually connected your experience to what Jen Shaw did and was later arrested for and sentenced to prison for. How did you make that realization? How did you connect the dots?
- [33:18]
Molly McLaughlin
I think it was ABC Night or News Night. I don't remember the exact name, but one of them had reached out to me because Jen had just been convicted and they had wanted to talk to me about it. And so when the reporter mentioned Jen's name, that was the only way I knew that she had had anything to do with it. And then I started kind of connecting the dots, and then watching their program that they had had, I saw more and more, and I thought, yeah, that is definitely the program that scammed me out of my money.
- [34:02]
Morgan Apsher
And what was that moment like for you? I mean, did you see her lavish life play out on the screen once you connected those dots? And as you were watching that lavish display of wealth and excess, how did that make you feel about your own experience and how she got all that wealth and excess?
- [34:25]
Molly McLaughlin
Once I connected the dots, I started to feel disgust and a bit of anger. And especially when seeing her flaunting her wealth. You know, I know people were even saying on set that they didn't know how she could afford her stuff. And so seeing her walking around acting all superior and, you know, sporting, like, a new bag or maybe a necklace that cost more than people's cars, I started to feel, you know, definitely a bit of anger, but again, mainly disgust and also frustration that she was allowed to get away with this. I mean, she may have ultimately been caught, but she did still get away with it for years. So then it just kind of all came out and was not pretty. It was just like, you're the one who screwed me and other people out of their money.
- [35:23]
Morgan Apsher
Yeah. You're on screen enjoying the fruits of fraudulent businesses, while you, Molly, and so many others potentially are grappling with the aftermath of the scam and even a.
- [35:36]
Molly McLaughlin
Cycle of debt and not even being sorry about it. You know, I mean, flaunting her wealth and everything, you know, just obviously proud of what she had done.
- [35:46]
Morgan Apsher
Did you want an apology?
- [35:47]
Molly McLaughlin
It'd be nice, but it would be superficial. She wouldn't mean it. She would only be sorry that she got caught.
- [35:54]
Morgan Apsher
So when her public fall started, the arrest, the charges, the guilty plea, what was your reaction? I mean, you're smiling now.
- [36:03]
Molly McLaughlin
When she was found guilty, it was a sense of relief, because at that good. Her companies are being shut down, and the mastermind behind it will finally be put in jail. Some justice has been served. You know, I knew that it wouldn't be getting the money back. But, you know, sometimes you have to accept small victories. And obviously, you know, the big victory would be everyone getting their money back exactly what they paid. But I was just happy in the fact that she was found guilty and would be spending time there in prison. It did feel like a victory and closure.
- [36:55]
Morgan Apsher
From your perspective as a victim, do you think that that big public Persona she had in the way she flaunted all her money on reality TV played a role in the downfall or even in her being caught?
- [37:06]
Molly McLaughlin
I think so, because they saw how extravagant she was on screen and they were questioning it. If she had hidden it, who knows if she would have ever been caught. She might have been, but it would have been harder. She was pretty blatant about it. Walking around in carrying Gucci bags and flaunting all of this money. It made it fairly obvious that something was going on on the side, especially since people involved in the show who knew her really well were also questioning and saying, what's going on here?
- [37:46]
Morgan Apsher
Have you been contacted for any sort of opportunity to get your money back?
- [37:51]
Molly McLaughlin
I was contacted by the ftc and they were the ones, you know, opening cases on these companies. This was prior to me knowing that Jen was involved and said, there's going to be class action lawsuits going on. You know, these people are scammers. We are going to try to fight for you guys. It was a slow process because the FTC had to gather a bunch of information. And obviously things like that take time, but there was a little bit of payback with that. And so at least with that, with these companies being forced to pay, some were shut down. But as the agent had said to me, you know, a lot of times they just shut down and then they open as a different company under a different dba and they just keep doing it and they never really stop. So I could look them up and maybe not see their name. Doesn't mean that they're not still around. They're just doing it under a different name.
- [38:59]
Morgan Apsher
Yeah. Can be a game of whack. A mole for authorities. So you never got any money?
- [39:04]
Molly McLaughlin
I got probably about $300, $300, $350, I think, total from everything returned from.
- [39:14]
Morgan Apsher
The FTC or class action from the class action.
- [39:18]
Molly McLaughlin
They had sent the initial check and then I guess they had sent a little bit of a second round a little later, which obviously wasn't as much, but yeah, I think in total everything was like $350 back.
- [39:34]
Morgan Apsher
Wow.
- [39:35]
Molly McLaughlin
Which I thought, hey, at least it's something. But, you know, compared to $44,000. It's just kind of like, all right.
- [39:45]
Morgan Apsher
Drop in the bucket. Is there any additional opportunity to recoup the rest of the money?
- [39:50]
Molly McLaughlin
Not that I know of. You know, unless Jen would reach out to me and write me a check, I don't think so, because I haven't heard anything from the FTC in a while. So I'm assuming that their cases are done, at least in this sense, you know, they're probably on to the next one. I know when I did receive that second check, it was a bit of a surprise when they sent the letter saying, hey, there was a bit of a balance left over, so here's your second half. I thought, oh, all right.
- [40:24]
Morgan Apsher
Another $300 or totaling $300.
- [40:27]
Molly McLaughlin
Totaling $300. I think the second check, it wasn't that much. It was maybe 50 at the most, if even that. I was grateful to get something back, but unless these companies are still writing out checks about 10 years later, I don't think we would really get any of the money back.
- [40:50]
Morgan Apsher
Were you able to get out of the debt?
- [40:52]
Molly McLaughlin
Yes, I had to file bankruptcy to get out of it. I'm so sorry.
- [40:57]
Morgan Apsher
How long ago did you file bankruptcy?
- [40:59]
Molly McLaughlin
That was in 2017, so it'll be eight years in September.
- [41:05]
Nicole Lapin
For Molly, who always prided herself on being responsible with her money, it felt like a profound public admission of failure. But by this point, with options exhausted and debt crushing, it wasn't a choice she made lightly. It was the absolute last recourse. A desperate, painful, yet ultimately necessary plea for a fresh start.
- [41:29]
Molly McLaughlin
From rock bottom, you basically fill out paperwork and mark down, like, everything you own. And I did remember kind of worrying thinking to myself, well, I have this really nice piece of jewelry. What if somehow I'd have to get rid of it? What if they would take it or something? You know, not knowing, maybe somehow I would get punished. Even though I'm the one filing bankruptcy, maybe I would have to end up paying someone for something that got missed. So there was a bit of fear with it, but with doing bankruptcy, it also felt relief knowing that the nightmare I was having with these companies who were calling and demanding money, knowing that that was going to be ending.
- [42:18]
Morgan Apsher
So you had no other choice but to file at that point, correct?
- [42:21]
Molly McLaughlin
Yeah, I had literally, at that point, hit rock bottom. I mentioned earlier I had tried for a consolidation loan. There was a couple other avenues I tried. I remember being on the phone with this one guy, and it was not exactly a consolidation loan, but it was something similar to it. And he said, you know, at this point you don't qualify. Cause my credit had already been ruined because of the debt. And he was telling me, like, what my payment would be for them to help. And I said, you know what, I don't have any choice. I'm going to have to file bankruptcy. I said, there's nothing else I can do. There's no other avenues. I looked around to see what there were. I tried credit counseling, debt management, things like that, and just nothing worked. And so I knew that I was at the end and bankruptcy was going to be the only way out.
- [43:22]
Morgan Apsher
How has bankruptcy affected your life in those eight or nine years? Have you had trouble with housing, jobs?
- [43:33]
Molly McLaughlin
Honestly, no. The first year or so, just for fun, because I was curious, I did try to apply for a couple credit cards, knowing full well what the answer was going to be. But I was just curious, you know, that maybe, maybe someone will let me have one. And of course, yeah, there was, there was nothing I had during that time moved in with my boyfriend. So luckily debt was reduced that way because I was now living with him. And then after that, like the second year, things started turning around. I once again tried it with a credit card and actually was approved for one. And I noticed that my score had been going up and everything. And so I'm kind of wondering if maybe with these reporting agencies, maybe they had been told this was fraud and this person wasn't irresponsible, it was just fraud. And so maybe in a way it helped me, I'm not sure. But luckily it hasn't really affected my life in a negative way too much. Just, you know, that initial year, year and a half, as you're trying to kind of recover from everything.
- [44:55]
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- [45:24]
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- [45:56]
Nicole Lapin
Looking back, Molly recognizes that her vulnerability stemmed from a desire for independence and a genuine need for flexible work. Her scammers expertly exploited those exact hopes and dreams.
- [46:09]
Molly McLaughlin
At the time I was looking for online work, I had been let go of a previous job actually a couple of years prior and had kind of been struggling, struggling ever since then, mainly working part time, to be honest. So I think that's why I kind of became susceptible, because I was trying to find something else, something that I could do by myself, kind of be like my own boss. I knew about scams at the time. I was always very cognizant that a lot of online postings can be scanned scams. Obviously not all. There are plenty of online jobs and there are more now that are legit than ever. So I was always aware of that. But it was just something that I saw and thought, oh, I can do this. You know, I also don't have skills that some people have. You know, some people are really good, like at art, and they can. They're graphic designers or whatnot. And I didn't have that. So I wanted to work on what I felt I could do. So when I saw dropshipping, I thought, oh, yeah, that'll be easy. And so unfortunately then kind of got caught up in the whole thought of, oh, having my own online business. That sounds great. And being a bit naive to the fact that this was a scam. The website I looked at had testimonials from people, and that's kind of what sold me because I thought, well, no one's going to put their name and their face to a scam. So I thought, well, this has to be legit at this point.
- [47:56]
Morgan Apsher
Are they fake?
- [47:57]
Molly McLaughlin
Yeah, that's kind of what told me. Oh, all right. Obviously I wouldn't make that mistake.
- [48:01]
Morgan Apsher
Now, what kind of advice would you give someone who might be in a similar vulnerable position in their life or career looking for opportunities online?
- [48:11]
Molly McLaughlin
Do your research. There are articles that come out, like every year or every quarter where they Talk about the 10 best online jobs that are legitimate. Check these out. Read these articles. These people have obviously at least done some research into checking these to make sure that they are real. And then if you see one you like, go to the bare Business Bureau, see if they have a rating. I know not every company does, and that's fine, but that might at least give you a hint. Check the FTC to see if maybe there's any lawsuits or something. And of course, you know, check word of mouth. Nowadays, social media is so much more prevalent than it was back then. You know, nowadays you can check Facebook and Instagram and, you know, TikTok and everything and try to get people's opinions on it. That way, you know, you might even go on TikTok and say, hey, I'm curious in this company. And three people might come out and say, oh, no, it's a scam. You know, this took me. Or they may say, no, it's perfectly fine. Go for it. So definitely use social media. If you're considering an online company, what's.
- [49:30]
Morgan Apsher
The ultimate message you hope to be sending to others by sharing your story?
- [49:35]
Molly McLaughlin
It's okay. Your feelings are valid. It's okay to feel how you feel. If you've been in a similar situation, you are perfectly okay to feel frustrated, scared, upset, said, those are all legit. And honestly, I would say to someone, if you are in a similar situation and you're drowning in debt, do look at bankruptcy, if that can be what frees you. I do think it should be a last resort. But for people who are drowning, you do have that option. And after that, just show the world what you're made of. Show them that this scam, whatever the scam is, did not break you. Come out of it stronger and better. So that way, if the scammers do ever run into you, you can show them that you won.
- [50:35]
Morgan Apsher
You have a YouTube channel now. Do you feel like you won in taking back your online footprint on your own terms?
- [50:46]
Molly McLaughlin
Yes, I would say so. You know, it's nice being able to be out there and knowing that at least what I'm doing is real and I don't have to really answer to someone. And I know what I'm getting at, what I'm doing. I don't have to feel afraid of decisions and worry that I'm gonna get a call every five minutes from a creditor.
- [51:17]
Morgan Apsher
How do we get you on the front page of Google? Legit.
- [51:19]
Molly McLaughlin
If you can figure it out, let me know.
- [51:21]
Morgan Apsher
But that's not your goal. Now, if you could say one thing to Jen Shaw today, what would it be?
- [51:29]
Molly McLaughlin
Stay in prison. No, I'm just kidding. You didn't break me. Granted, she has no idea who I am, but I would basically say on behalf of the thousands of people that you scammed, you were the one who lost, not us.
- [51:49]
Morgan Apsher
Have you been in touch with other victims?
- [51:51]
Molly McLaughlin
I have not, but I'm sure they're out there.
- [51:55]
Nicole Lapin
While Molly herself hadn't connected with Other victims, their stories were are out there and they paint an even more harrowing picture. The financial devastation wrought by these scams often leads to a profound emotional toll. And for some, the consequences were truly unthinkable. Trigger warning. Please be aware that the next part of our conversation will touch upon the topic of suicide. Feel free to skip ahead about one minute.
- [52:21]
Molly McLaughlin
From one of the stories that I saw, I do know sadly, that one of the victims did end up taking his life because of what happened. That made me cry when I heard that. But I myself do not know any victims. If there's a support group, hey, let's all get together and share our stories.
- [52:42]
Morgan Apsher
I also heard that they were targeting the elderly, which I believe is the worst of the worst.
- [52:50]
Molly McLaughlin
Yeah, unfortunately the person who took his life, he was elderly. I don't know his exact age but. But yeah, he was elderly. And it's obviously sad when anyone does that, but it seems, I don't know, there's like an extra layer of sad when they're elderly and they feel like that's the only way that they can escape.
- [53:11]
Nicole Lapin
It's hard to even process the depth of the tragedy, knowing what happened to some of the other victims of this scam. So when Jen Sha was finally convicted and sentenced to six and a half years in prison, there was a sense of closure for some, while others felt it wasn't nearly enough. Now Jen Shah's sentence has been reduced and she's currently projected to be released as early as September of 2026. For Molly, having endured such profound and life alterating impacts from this scam, what kind of emotions does this news bring up for her?
- [53:44]
Molly McLaughlin
Annoyance, irritation and also kind of a bit of. I don't know if this is actually an emotion, but the whole figures that kind of attitude because it seems that someone like her, even if she is in prison, is still going to kind of get her way. Since her sentence was reduced, she's not gonna do the full six years, which honestly I didn't feel was long enough anyways. She in a way still kind of wins. She may have been sent to prison, but she'll be getting out sooner and being able to return to her lifestyle before. Hopefully not as lavish, but she'll still be able, you know, to return back to her life and doing what she does best.
- [54:37]
Morgan Apsher
If it was up to you, what would an appropriate sentence for her be?
- [54:41]
Molly McLaughlin
Probably 15 years. Yeah, maybe that seems a little harsh with it being a white collar crime, but with the thousands of people that were defrauded, I would say at least 15 years, if not more. Maybe some people would argue and say no, she should have 20. And maybe some would say no, her sentence is fine. You know, we're all different. But to me, 15 sounds like it would be more justified. But that's just my opinion.
- [55:11]
Nicole Lapin
Molly, thank you so much for sharing your story with us and really walking us through this difficult but ultimately triumphant time.
- [55:18]
Molly McLaughlin
I thank you guys so much for having me and I'm glad to share the story. You know, Jen can stay in jail, but I feel nice that I'm the one that gets to kind of come out and tell my story. Hopefully I can prevent someone from being taken in by her or someone else in the future.
- [55:42]
Nicole Lapin
Thank you so much for listening. I'm your host, Nicole Lappin. Scams, Money and Murder Is a Crime House Original Join me every Thursday for a brand new episode here at Crime House. We want to thank each and every one of you for your continued support. If you like what you heard here today, reach out on all social media at Crime House. And don't forget to rate, review and follow Scams, Money and Murder wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference. And for ad free listening plus early access and bonus content, subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts Scams, Money and Murder is hosted by me, Nicole Lapin and is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. My guest today was Molly McLachlan. This episode was brought to life by the Scams, Money and Murder team, Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benedon, Stacey Warner, Sarah Camp and Paul Libeskin.
- [56:34]
Kaylin Moore
Hi, it's Kaelyn Moore. Crime House is home to the most gripping true crime shows and I would love for you to check out my show that I co host with Morgan Absher. Clues Want to sneak past the crime scene tape to explore the key evidence behind some of the most gripping true crime cases? Well, each week on Clues, we open up a new case file and dig into the key evidence that either solved or left authorities baffled behind the most infamous criminal cases. Join us every Wednesday and listen to Clues on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.