INTERVIEW: Pig Butchering with Jacqueline Crenshaw

Summary

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Scams, Money & Murder: INTERVIEW – Pig Butchering with Jacqueline Crenshaw

Podcast: Scams, Money & Murder
Host: Nicole Lapin
Guest: Jacqueline Crenshaw
Release Date: August 28, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the harrowing experience of Jacqueline Crenshaw, who lost nearly $1 million to a sophisticated "pig butchering" scam—a hybrid of romance and investment fraud. Host Nicole Lapin interviews Jacqueline as she recounts the progression from an online romance to total financial devastation, and, ultimately, transformation into an advocate for fellow scam victims. The conversation offers insight into how these scams operate, the psychological tactics employed by scammers, and the profound financial and emotional consequences for victims.

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Key Topics & Discussion Points

1. Introduction to Pig Butchering Scams

[03:23]

• Nicole explains that “pig butchering” refers to scammers “fattening up” victims with affection, trust, and investment opportunities before “slaughtering” them by stealing all their money.
• The scam Jacqueline endured began on a dating app, combining emotional manipulation and fraudulent investment schemes.

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2. Jacqueline’s Story: How the Scam Began

[04:36–07:46]

• Urged by friends, Jacqueline joined the dating app BLK in May 2023, meeting a man named "Brandon," who claimed to be a widower with two boys.
• The relationship quickly intensified, moving off the dating platform after five to six weeks.
• Early red flags: Brandon avoided video calls, made excuses for not meeting in person, and encouraged emotional dependency.
  • “It probably was a red flag, but I guess it doesn’t matter now because of AI…I couldn’t see his face.” (Jacqueline, [06:02])

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3. Transition to Finance and Investment Fraud

[06:51–13:50]

• After establishing emotional rapport, Brandon started discussing cryptocurrency investments, highlighting supposed profits and promising joint financial success.
• To solidify trust, he sent Jacqueline a $100,000 check to invest “for their future,” asking her also to borrow $40,000 from her 401(k).
  • “I guess I felt like he gained my trust…why would somebody send you a hundred thousand dollar check, right?” (Jacqueline, [09:05])
• The check eventually cleared, adding to Jacqueline’s sense of legitimacy, but later investigation revealed it too was part of the scam, using money from another victim.

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4. Love Bombing and Psychological Manipulation

[07:25–13:18]

• Brandon consistently “spoiled” Jacqueline with gifts, food deliveries, and constant communication, all classic signs of “love bombing.”
• He used spiritual intimacy—praying with and for Jacqueline—deepening her emotional attachment and trust.
  • “He would pray, and he actually, I'm not going to say taught me how to pray, but from him, I would also pray.” (Jacqueline, [13:18])
• When she expressed doubt or asked for her money back, Brandon introduced a second "broker" character to manage her anxieties and provide a veneer of expertise.

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5. Escalation of Financial Losses

[14:08–22:12]

• Jacqueline invested incrementally larger amounts: from $40,000, to $80,000–$85,000, eventually over $300,000—all channeled into fake investment accounts (Coinclesta, via E-wallets).
• Checked balances showed apparent profits, fueling belief and commitment.
  • “It looked like I was already from August, September of 23 to…I don't know, March of 24 was like a million dollars.” (Jacqueline, [22:25])
• These platforms and documents were fabricated; police later traced the E-wallets to Singapore and Nigeria.

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6. Totaling the Damage: Retirement and Home Equity Lost

[22:25–24:01]

• To continue funding the scam, Jacqueline eventually tapped into her fully paid-off condo’s HELOC, following Brandon’s guidance and forged checks.
  • “I had to almost start all over again.” (Jacqueline, [35:59])
• Banks allowed large fraudulent deposits, leaving her responsible for $368,000 in debt to Bank of America alone.
• After taxes and additional fraudulent credit, her total losses exceeded $1 million.

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7. Discovery and Aftermath

[24:08–33:13]

• Police investigation was triggered by an anonymous call from someone in the scam network.
• With help from state troopers, Jacqueline discovered the $100,000 check she’d received was laundered from another scam victim; the scam involved multiple simultaneous victims.
• She struggled with overwhelming debt and learned that her income thwarted her eligibility for full bankruptcy relief.
  • “I tried to file for bankruptcy…but if you make over $80,000, chapter 13 is dollar for dollar. You're basically just trying to make arrangements to pay these debtors, which is crazy.” (Jacqueline, [27:39])

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8. Facing the Perpetrator and the Reality of Online Fraud

[29:12–31:47]

• When confronted, “Brandon” denied involvement and continued to feign concern.
  • “He even tried at that time to say he’s going to send me some more money, but can he trust me?” (Jacqueline, [29:36])
• Jacqueline never learned the scammer’s true identity, concluding the profile photo and backstory were entirely stolen.
• Law enforcement traced E-wallets to Singapore and Nigeria but had limited recourse in recovering funds or finding the criminals.
  • “That part is just not knowing who these people are. I never heard of the Yahoo boys…and it’s everywhere.” (Jacqueline, [31:17])

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9. From Victim to Advocate: Speaking Out

[33:33–35:59]

• Rather than hiding in shame, Jacqueline became an outspoken scam awareness advocate, working with AARP’s Fraud Fighter program and participating in media interviews.
  • “I refuse to be in the shadows. I wanted everyone to know what happened. I know most people are so fearful and so embarrassed and ashamed that they will not speak up.” (Jacqueline, [33:33])
• She highlights the lack of visible representation of African American women among publicly known victims.

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10. Lessons and Red Flags

[37:47–41:10]

• Recognized red flags in hindsight:
  • Quick escalation and urging to move conversations off dating platforms.
  • Reluctance to meet in person or appear on video.
  • Requests for large sums or control over finances.
• Warns that “pig butchering” and similar scams target all demographics.
• Final advice for listeners:
  • Never give personal or financial information to online contacts.
  • Trust your gut and be vigilant for manipulation, love bombing, or undue urgency.
  • “Never, ever give your personal information, no matter what, and they may try to trick you. Just super careful.” (Jacqueline, [38:58])
• Advice to loved ones: Remain supportive, don’t shame, offer nonjudgmental guidance, and help verify identities.
  • “Anyone can be fooled, including myself.” (Jacqueline, [40:32])

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11. Hope, Recovery, and the Reality After Loss

[35:52–41:43]

• Jacqueline remains optimistic, demonstrating resilience.
  • “I just say God didn’t bring me this far to end it like this. I’m not going to get that money back. But…there has to be something somewhere along the line to be just a blessing.” (Jacqueline, [36:48])
• She continues to work, teach, and advocate, hoping her story will prevent others from falling victim.

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Notable Quotes

• On psychological manipulation:
  “That’s their job, is to separate people from their money, and that is it.” (Jacqueline, [36:46])

• On coming forward:
  “I refuse to be in the shadows. I wanted everyone to know what happened.” (Jacqueline, [33:33])

• On recognizing red flags:
  “Be careful when you go off the platform. It’s that important…you don’t know who you’re talking to.” (Jacqueline, [37:54])

• On scammer empathy:
  “But they have families, they have mothers, they had sisters. Would they really want this to happen to their family members? I don’t think they would.” (Jacqueline, [39:33])

• On hope after trauma:
  “I love my life, I want to live, I want to help people. But that doesn’t mean I can’t be angry. We’re all human.” (Jacqueline, [36:46])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:23] — What is pig butchering?
• [04:36–06:42] — How Jacqueline met “Brandon” and the early warning signs
• [06:51–08:48] — Shifting from romance to investment pitch
• [13:18–13:50] — The role of shared spirituality
• [14:42–16:56] — First major investments and the illusion of growing returns
• [22:25–24:01] — Extending into home equity and compounding losses
• [24:08–26:19] — Discovery, confronting police and realization of scam
• [29:31–31:17] — Final confrontation and loss of identity of the scammer
• [33:33–35:59] — Advocacy, media, and healing
• [37:54–41:10] — Hindsight, advice for others, and the lasting impact

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Final Reflections

Nicole Lapin closes by commending Jacqueline for her courage, emphasizing the importance of breaking the shame barrier and sharing stories for public education. Jacqueline’s journey is a powerful reminder that even vigilant, capable individuals can fall prey to sophisticated scams—and that healing, hope, and advocacy are possible even after severe loss.

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For more information and resources, visit AARP Fraud Watch Network or contact local authorities if you suspect a scam.

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Transcript

[A]

Hey there, it's Nicole Lapman, host of the Crime House Original Scams, Money and Murder. If you are loving this show, you don't want to miss our fellow Crime House Original Podcast Conspiracy Theories, Cults and Crimes. Every Wednesday you'll get to explore the true stories behind the world's most shocking crimes, deadly ideologies and secret plots. From mass suicides and political assassinations to secret government experiments and UFO cults. Follow Conspiracy Theories, Cults and Crimes now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music or wherever you listen. And for ad free listening and early access to episodes, subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts. This is Crime House.

[B]

I guess I felt like he gained my trust and I gained his trust. Cause why would somebody send you $100,000 check, right? Their job is to separate people from their money and that is it. Once it went to that e wallet, the money was gone and I'm left holding the bag.

[A]

As they say, money makes the world go round. What many don't talk about is the time it made people's worlds come to a screeching halt. Whether it's greed, desperation or a thirst for power, money can make even the most unassuming people do unthinkable things. And sometimes those acts can be deadly. This is Scams, Money and a Crime House Original. I'm your host Nicole Lapin. Every Thursday we alternate between covering infamous money motivated crimes and gripping interviews with the ex experts or those who were directly involved themselves. Crime House exists because of you. Please rate, review and follow Scams, Money and Murder wherever you get your podcasts. And for early ad, free access and bonus content, subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts. If you're an experienced pet owner, you already know that having a pet is 25% belly rubs, 25% yelling drop it. And 50% groaning at the bill from every pet visit. Which which is why Lemonade pet insurance is tailor made for your pet and can save you up to 90% on vet bills. It can help cover checkups, emergencies, diagnostics, basically all the stuff that makes your bank account get nervous. Claims are filed super easily through the Lemonade app and half get settled instantly. Get a'@lemonade.com pet and they'll help cover the vet bill for whatever your pet swallowed after you yelled drop it. Buying a car in Carvana was so easy I was able to finance it through them. I just. Whoa, wait, you mean finance? Yeah, Finance got pre qualified for a Carvana auto loan, entered my terms and shot from thousands of great car options all within my budget. That's cool. But financing through Carvana was so easy. Financed, done. And I get to pick up my car from their Carvana vending machine tomorrow. Financed, right? That's what they said. You can spend time trying to pronounce financing, or you can actually finance and buy your car. Today on Carvana financing, subject to credit approval. Additional terms and conditions may apply. Pig butchering is a highly sophisticated and devastating scam that combines romance and investment fraud. It's a long con, often lasting months, where scammers groom their targets by building emotional and psychological trust. Once the victim is emotionally invested, the scammer introduces a fake crypto or investment opportunity promising huge returns. The scam gets its unusual name from the way fraudsters fatten up their victims with affection and false hope before, quote, unquote, slaughtering them by taking all their money. Today we're talking to Jacqueline Crenshaw, who lost around a million dollars to a pig butchering scam after a man on a dating app. Well, Jackie, thank you so much for joining us.

[B]

Yes, I actually wanted to. I just had a therapy session, so I'm good.

[A]

Okay. That was quite a sigh. Grateful that you're joining us to talk about pig butchering scams because they're particularly devastating, not just for the financial part of it, but glad you just had therapy for the emotional part of it as well. Also the romance component, which was your experience. So can we just start at the beginning? Can you talk me through what led you to start thinking about online dating in 2023?

[B]

So one of my very good friends had mentioned it to me, and I had never been on a dating site. So she talked about another mutual friend that had some success, and I was still kind of reluctant. And this went on for like two or three weeks. And then she's like, I'm going to help you, you know, make a profile. And this particular dating site was called blk, which I guess it catered to African American dating. So she helped me set up the profile and just looking to meet someone, and I think it only took like a day or two. There was a couple of people that had responded, and this one particular picture that I saw, I'm like, wow, he has really pretty eyes. And I think later that day, he responded back, and, you know, we start talking. He talked about how he was a widower, he had two boys, and this started in late May of 2023. So, you know, we had came out of COVID and he had been home with the kids for a couple of years. He was just Looking for someone to meet.

[A]

And when you started talking, obviously it's on blk, and that's considered talking to somebody on the platform. But communication then shifted off the platform. Can you tell me more about that?

[B]

Of course. He's asked for phone number and, like, email. We can talk off of the platform. And that was probably after about five, six weeks. Talked about meeting. He was saying, oh, let's get off the platform, because he just only wanted to talk to me and had I talked to other people. And it sort of seemed like it was going in the way of a relationship. But one of the. It's probably a red flag, but I guess it doesn't matter now because of AI wasn't able to physically see him, or he had excuses of why he. I couldn't see his face.

[A]

And that could potentially feel a little suspicious. But you two were still getting to know each other. So when did things change into talking about finances?

[B]

I think probably six weeks in, he started asking me about crypto. Did I know anything about it? And I started asking around because he was like, oh, you know, it has the potential to make all this money. And again, at first I was reluctant to be like, no, I don't know anyone who does it or what it does. And he started explaining how while he was home with the kids, he was able to learn about it and really get good with it and how much money he made on it.

[A]

But in the meantime, before you started to invest, it sounds like was doing other things to take care of you.

[B]

It got to the point where if I was hungry, he would have food delivered to my home. I didn't think I was a lonely person. But it started with all the conversation, everything like, oh, this person cares about me because they're sending me food and sending trinkets and things like that.

[A]

So he's spoiling you a bit with gifts, with food. And then the conversations go back to crypto.

[B]

So right at the time that I was going to get the money for the crypto, he's like, you know what? I'm going to send you a check for our future, and we can invest that. And I was like, well, why can't you do it? And he's like, so busy, wasn't able to do it, and all these different things.

[A]

And when you made the decision to invest, what did that look like?

[B]

So I did first borrow $40,000 for my 401k, and at the same time, or a week later, I get a check in the mail for $100,000. I didn't believe it was real. And my best friend said, well, you know, you have to go to the police. And I'm like, absolutely. So I do go to the police, and I have the envelope with the woman's name from Vero Beach, Florida on it. And we tried to like, Google and look her up, and I couldn't really find anything.

[A]

So this is moving really, really fast. Jackie, did you have any initial reservations about the intensity or speed of the relationship, or did you go all in? Were you just out of a relationship and looking for something serious? So you thought maybe this could be the one?

[B]

I thought it could be the one. And it didn't seem that fast to me. But again, unbeknownst to me, the phrase they use of love bombing. Exactly what you want to hear. You're beautiful, I love you. We're gonna have a life together. It was a little fast, but I guess I felt like he gained my trust and I gained his trust. Because why would somebody send you a hundred thousand dollar check, right?

[A]

And the purpose of this hundred thousand dollar check is to invest it in crypto. So you deposit the check and then what happened?

[B]

So I deposited a check, but I still went to the police and I said, I think that this could be fraud. They basically blow me off. So then my girlfriend and I, we called the bank that issued the check and they said, yeah, check was real. So I tried to look up the individual. She was from Vero Beach, Florida. It just had her name. And it mentioned construction. And he said he was in construction. So I figured, okay, maybe it's legit. But I let the check sit for at least three weeks and it did clear. So this individual wasn't like pressuring me, like the money back. Money back is just like, oh, you know, we'll get crypto and just live happily ever after.

[A]

And what's going on with your relationship with Brandon around this time?

[B]

Shortly after that, we started sending listings in my area because he was supposedly from New York, but he was in Virginia and then was doing a job where he got a big contract in California. So he's sending million dollar homes in Connecticut. Got to have enough room for the boys. And if I questioned something, I felt like he was always a step ahead. And I did. I have to on record think I was one of the sharper tacks in the box. So I feel like it happened to anyone.

[A]

So what made you so suspicious? If the check cleared, why did you go to the police?

[B]

Well, at first when I went to them, it hadn't cleared yet and they like I said, blew me off. And I was like, once we called the bank that issued the check and they said it was real. And I'm like, okay. And the whole time he's saying it's real. He didn't know. I went to the police, but that's a lot of money. Who just sends $100,000?

[A]

So you just had a bad feeling about it?

[B]

Initially, yes.

[A]

And then when it cleared, did you feel like you could trust him again?

[B]

Yeah, because I had a blowout with my tire and he's like, oh, just, you know, get a whole set of tires. Then my dryer broke and I got a new dryer. Then it was just slowly coaxing me to, like, I think 25,001 time to buy a transfer, buying crypto and then send into a E wallet. Once it went to that E wallet, the money was gone. All of my money, whatever money was gone to them. But I was getting false statements of this coin cluster that was sending the profits.

[A]

Let's take a step back for a second. At this stage of your relationship, did you find it strange that you hadn't met this Brandon in person?

[B]

I mean, it was a little strange, but speaking several times a day. And of course he was plans to come and something would come up, and it was just day in, day out, working, talking to him. And I would talk to my friend about it and they would question it because at one point after the 40,000, I said to him, oh, I want to get my money back. I don't want to do this. And there was a second person that was introduced as a broker. Now, this person actually gave me instructions on how to open these accounts and how to do the wire transfer for the crypto and all of that. So he sends me an email that I have to wait, like 90 days for the cycle to end to be able to get my money back.

[A]

And you guys weren't just talking, you guys were praying together. You had this spiritual connection.

[B]

Yes. That part, I think, to me was the deceit. I'm a spiritual person. I wouldn't say I'm overly religious, but yes, the praying part, he would pray, and he actually, I'm not going to say taught me how to pray, but from him, I would also pray. And we pray for the kids, pray for work, pray for everything. And you can understand how if someone is using religion to deceive people, and I know it happens all the time, it would be daily. Then we started, oh, it's my turn. It's your turn.

[A]

So it made you trust Brandon and also Rely on some of his guidance around finances, it sounds like, especially when the police brushed you off. I'm sure there was some distrust in traditional institutions.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So for the initial investment, you borrowed 40k from your 401k to invest.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

He was basically telling you, there's a new crypto thing. We can make a lot of money. I'm gonna send you a hundred grand. It cleared you. Trust me. I'm gonna replace your washer, dryer, I'm gonna send you food, I'm gonna do all the things. And so you start investing $40,000 in crypto. It's still not the full amount that he sends you at this point.

[B]

Correct. And I ended up probably at least 80,000 sent back crypto, wire transfer to Bitcoin, to it being invested.

[A]

So walk me through what the financial transactions were. So he says, I'm going to send you 100k. So you put your 40k and you still have 100k in the bank. He's saying that he's putting more on top of what you put in. You're seeing it grow.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And what happens next?

[B]

So then I Send back Probably 80, 85,000, and that's also deposited into this fake account, which, again, he got the money back. Because I now realize if I hadn't gone to the police, that's like money laundering. And I've seen different instances of people being used, but that was the only time. So the rest of the time was my money.

[A]

And all the while you're talking to Brandon, getting to know him better, but also his family. Right.

[B]

He had. Supposedly, the boys were texting me, saying, oh, can't wait to meet you. And never talk to them on the phone, but always just, you know, text messages. Not that you're going to be my new mom, but, you know, they were so sad and they were. He told me three and five at the time, so that's really young. Right.

[A]

And how old did he say he was?

[B]

49. Because he then his birthday was close to mine. I was going to be turning 60 and he was going to be turning 50 by December. We're talking about this birthday party, 80 grand on a yacht. He says, blank check. And I mean with sending me a thousand here, but I'm still, you know, investing and sending money's going back and forth.

[A]

Okay, so then he tells you to put more of the money that he sent you into this crypto account.

[B]

Yes. Wire transfer, buy crypto, put it in this e wallet, which the profits, like, every week was at least 10,000.

[A]

And until now, what was your understanding of how cryptocurrency worked? It sounds like you asked some friends and family. How did they explain it to you?

[B]

Well, most of them didn't know how it worked. I had one person that said they just invested like a couple of hundred and I would watch it. I think when I first started it was at like 60,000 for one bitcoin. And of course now it's like 119. It was believable because I was thinking that mine was truly being invested in and I was watching it.

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

@Mintmobile.Com Switch upfront payment of $45 for three month plan. $15 per month equivalent required. New customer offer first three months only, then full price plan, options available, taxes and fees extra. Cmintmobile.com After Jackie's initial investment, not only could she track a bitcoin to get a general understanding of how her investments were doing, she also started receiving statements from a company called Coinclesta showing her profits. These statements looked legitimate, and Jackie didn't feel like she had any reason to doubt them. So how did seeing those profits influence her?

[B]

I don't consider myself a greedy person and I've worked really hard all my life to save all that money. But a part of their playbook to say, you're seeing all these profits, thousands of dollars, so sure we can afford a $1.2 million house. At the same time he's asking me, oh, you know, what are the school systems like and what towns? And then he would send pictures of homes that may have been on the market.

[A]

So it just kept feeling real, like he was texting, calling all the time, saying all the things you wanted to hear about your Future, it sounds like.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

At the same time, part of your relationship was investing in coinclusta?

[B]

Yep.

[A]

You mentioned sending money to an E wallet. What was your understanding of where exactly the money was going and who was controlling it?

[B]

So from the E wallet, which you have to use a authenticator, I thought it was going to Coincluster, which shows all the profit, but it really was going wherever because two state troopers in Connecticut, they traced one wallet to Singapore and one to Nigeria.

[A]

So once the money went into the wallet, it basically gone. But you didn't know this at the time, of course.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

And after you started investing the money, you took out of your 401k and invested the money that he sent to you, did he pressure you to take out more money?

[B]

Well, not pressure, but I was 59 and a half. And what happens at 59 and a half? Oh, you could take out your 403B and do anything you want with it. So I had a co worker that her and her husband, when she turned 59, half, they took it out and they invested in something else.

[A]

At this point, how much money had you invested?

[B]

400K, which. A hundred thousand. 113,000 was in taxes. But I have to tell you, I now have a $57,000 IRS bill from taking the distribution. Yes. I thought that that was enough, but my salary is decent, so add to that and I owe the IRS $57,000.

[A]

From the 400 that you took out?

[B]

Yes. They taxes it once and then they tax you again. So they add that to your salary.

[A]

If you have a Roth, you pay tax when you put it in. But if you have a 403 or 401K or traditional IRA, then, you know, sometimes people do often forget that you have to pay tax when that money comes out.

[B]

Right. But I thought it did because of the initial tax that they took out, but nope.

[A]

So after the initial tax that they took out, how much did you end up putting into the platform?

[B]

300,000.

[A]

And that was the same choreography that you did with the money before?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Put it in an E wallet, get statements from Coinclesta.

[B]

Gone. Yes.

[A]

Well, at that point, you're still getting statements showing that it was profitable. Right. What was your emotional state at the time? Were you hopeful putting in that 300?

[B]

Yeah, because it looked like I was already from August, September of 23 to, I don't know, March of 24 was like a million dollars.

[A]

You had put in around $340,000 of your own money at this point. And most of it came from Your retirement accounts. But I also want to talk about your condo, because at the time you owned your condo and it was fully paid off. How long had it taken you to pay it off?

[B]

It was less than 30 years, maybe 26, 27.

[A]

Okay, so some catch up payments, but a traditional 30 year mortgage. This is where you want to live the rest of your life.

[B]

I thought so. Right now it's in a short sale. So the HELOC was for 189, your.

[A]

Home equity line of credit.

[B]

Yes, that is again invested. These banks, they allowed these people, whomever they are, to deposit large checks into my HELOC, which were bad checks. I think one was for 50,000, one was for 70,000, and I'm left holding the bag. So bank of America said to me, owing 189,000, they say I owe them 368,000.

[A]

So he asks you to tap into your HELOC to invest.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And you do that because again, he's.

[B]

Showing me his and he's got like 10 million.

[A]

So you took the money out of your paid off condo, you put it into the platform. So now we're up to more than $500,000.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

When did things start to shift? In other words, how did you start to figure out that you were being scammed by this person you trusted?

[B]

I get a call from my local police station that I visited a year before, and they say to me, we received an anonymous call from a gentleman with a thick Indian accent stating that he feels sorry for you because you're being scammed. And he says, are you being scammed? And of course it's like the world ended. I mean, everything just stopped. First I said no, so I hang up. And I'm just, I mean, beyond devastated because everything blew up. But I didn't let the scammer know at first. So the very next day I go to the police station and, you know, I said, I got a call yesterday and it was a Detective Tran or whomever. But they again, not knowing, he's like, oh, I need you to categorize all these E wallets and do all these things. And it was so overwhelming. I'm like, I'm not going to be able to do this. And then they're like, oh, you know, contact IC3, which is the FBI. So I submitted three separate. It's like an email, you fill out things to the FBI. Never heard back. So I think this is like August 2024, I call the state police and I leave a long message and these two detectives, I feel like they're like, God sends Detective Matt Hogan and Mike Grabowski. They are, you know, investigating scam cases for the whole state of Connecticut. Just these two state trooper detectives that taught themselves what to do. So he had me come to the state police barracks.

[A]

It seems like at this point, you started to understand and accept that this was a scam, but you didn't tell Brandon about your suspicions. Is that because you wanted to see how far this thing could go, or is that something detectives suggested?

[B]

Yes. Who? You know, don't say anything. Just kind of go along so we can, you know, I gave him phone numbers.

[A]

But eventually you did confront him. How did he react?

[B]

He denied it to the very end, but I just couldn't continue. I was too angry. And then part of the butchering is when I started getting through the mail. I'm, like, traumatized to go to the mailbox because I'm getting rejection letters from credit unions and banks. I guess he knew. Maybe he knew the gig was up. So that's with the butchering. They just, you know, have your information and try to apply for any kind of credit. He had done some cash advance with the Citibank. You know, my limit was 50,000. How do I owe bank of America 100,000? And it just goes on. Navy Federal is 30,000. I tried to file for bankruptcy, but if you make 79,000 or less, you can file for chapter seven, in which it goes away in 90 days. But if you make over $80,000, chapter 13 is dollar for dollar. You're basically just trying to make arrangements to pay these debtors, which is crazy.

[A]

So you can't file for bankruptcy because you make more than 80 grand a year. And at this point, it sounds like including the loans and the cash advances, you've lost somewhere close to a million dollars.

[B]

Yes. And the $50,000 tax just brought it over to million 50. Because I owed the state 2,000, I was able to pay that.

[A]

And did you learn who these scammers are?

[B]

Well, the state troopers, the two of them, this past fall, because I call, you know, and check in every now and then, because he told me about the two wallets that they traced. One to Singapore, one to Nigeria. So I guess the state troopers contacted maybe the Vero Beach, Florida, police, and that's how they found out that this woman was told that I was an investor. And she. She sent money to me and to another person, another 100,000.

[A]

So you learned that the check you originally got was from another victim?

[B]

Yes, he said it was. She owed him for work. That he had done. But I found out, yes, from the state police, that there was. She was being scammed at the same time. I guess they do a couple of people at a time because that's all they do.

[A]

Did you ever talk to her?

[B]

No, I wasn't able to get her phone number, so I don't know what they told her to do, but yeah. And she was like 72.

[A]

And when the truth started to unravel, how difficult was it for you to break that emotional bond that you had formed with Brandon?

[B]

Oh, I was angry. And like I said, he denied it. I know other victims and I've read where the families couldn't get them to stop. I was beyond, like, I probably could have committed a crime if I was able to see him. That's how angry I was.

[A]

So what did you say to this Brandon guy?

[B]

I said, I can't believe I trusted you. You've ruined my life. He said, oh, what are you talking about? No, I didn't. And I said, I'm going to be out on the street. And he said, no, no. He even tried at that time to say he's going to send me some more money, but can he trust me? And I was like, I don't think that's happening. I worked hard for my money. I would never want to take anyone's money. But for one second he was like, oh, I'm going to send you some money. And at that time I knew you scammed it. So it's probably somebody else's hard earned money. And I'm one thing I'm not is a thief.

[A]

And then you just stopped talking to him altogether.

[B]

He tried to, he reached out, you know, probably another two weeks. And then I just blocked him because, you know, having spoken with the officer and they're like, they don't get caught. And they have computers and they generate numbers because even like six months in, he's like, hey, I got a number, new number, and it had my area code. Like he was ready, getting ready to move here and everything. So twisted.

[A]

What did you end up finding out about who he really is?

[B]

I still don't know who it really is. That picture, this poor guy, whoever in Australia probably used hundreds of times. They get an attractive person and I think they stole his whole Facebook account because I have tons of pictures of him and the kids. He sent videos of the kids.

[A]

And then you turn all of this information over to the detectives?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

What are they able to find out?

[B]

It's an ongoing investigation, but they don't know who's doing it. But they were able to sort of trace the E wallets and not a whole lot. And that part is just not knowing who these people are. I never heard of the Yahoo boys and and these Nigerians that just. And it's everywhere. I think it's in Laos, it's in Thailand, it's in Myanmar. Because I've even heard stories of the actual scammers who are forced to scam and do all these other things, but that just wasn't on my radar in the beginning.

[A]

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[B]

In 2013, two brutal murders left the.

[A]

City of Davis, California, paralyzed in fear.

[B]

The victims were an elderly couple. It was up close and personal. I'm 48 Hours correspondent Aaron Moriarty. He's. I think the word is psychotic. This is 15 Inside the Daniel Marsh Murders.

[A]

Follow and listen to 15 Inside the Daniel Marsh Murders on the Free Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts. But instead of allowing the anger and the devastation to take hold, Jacqueline decided to turn her pain into something that could help others.

[B]

I'm a fighter. I refuse to be in the shadows. I wanted everyone to know what happened. I know most people are so fearful and so embarrassed and ashamed that they will not speak up. And I think that's part of why it continues to happen.

[A]

At what point after this is all going on, can you even have the energy, despite this immense trauma that you've experienced, to become the AARP fraud fighter that you are, to be this advocate for other scam victims?

[B]

I think it was maybe October when the president reached out to me and she says, oh, do you think you, you know, you want to help other people? And I said, absolutely. She said, well, what do you think about doing an interview? I said, and show my face. I was like, I don't know. So I thought about it and I said, in all of the things that I've seen, all the documentaries, all the stories, I've never seen an African American Woman. So I said, you know what, you're going to have to take one for the team. I'm in breast imaging. So October is a very busy month for me. We have a mobile unit and there was a reporter and I said to her can I ask you a personal question? And I was looking for help. She's like she happened to be had been an intern for one of the news reporters and she hooked him up with me and he came to my home and interviewed me. And that just started the ball rolling as to coming out of the shadows. And most people would say, oh my God, I can't believe that happened to you. You never missed a beat. Because I had to go on. I had to put a smile on my face and go to work.

[A]

Did you want to retire?

[B]

I had set it up that it would be like 62, maybe 64. But knowing that, you know, with I don't know anymore my company, you'd have to get Medicare. And that would be the most important part for me knowing that I had medical coverage. So it would have had to been at 65, all the money I've lost, I would have been able to retire comfortably.

[A]

So paint the picture of what you wanted your life to look like now before you met this guy. What is the reality?

[B]

I'm the outreach educator for breast cancer survivor group and I go and I teach people how to examine their breasts and all ages. So I'm like a pillar in my community because I've been in radiology for 40 plus years now and I'm synonymous with mammography. I figured once I retire I will continue to teach. At first I said minority, but anyone about how important breast health is and how to examine your breasts and all these different things. So I figured while my condo be paid for, I just have to pay hoas and taxes and be able to travel and do it basically what I want. But now I had to almost start all over again.

[A]

So you're going to be working for.

[B]

I don't know when I can't see myself at 70. But on the bright side, and I don't know where this optimism comes from, I do look at the glass half full. I just say God didn't bring me this far to end it like this. So I'm not going to get that money back. But there has to be something somewhere along the line to be just a blessing. I don't know. And otherwise I'll just keep working because I've also read where people have taken their lives and all kinds of things because of the Loss of so much I love my life, I want to live, I want to help people. But that doesn't mean I can't be angry. We're all human. And I fell back. You know, the layers were pulled back to my heart and taken advantage of. And that's their job, is to separate people from their money, and that is it.

[A]

Looking back now, what do you think are the biggest red flags that you recognize that you wish you'd seen earlier?

[B]

One of the things that I talk about is I wrote to the blk. They never wrote back to me. But Pina, who's on WNBC 7, they seem to have got more information than I could ever get. And I want there to be, like, a warning, Be careful when you go off the platform. It's that important that you really, really have to be careful because you don't know who you're talking to. And I try not to beat myself up, but I'm like, damn it, I never had social media.

[A]

You mean if you had social media, you would have potentially found something out about.

[B]

Well, no, I was a little more versed about it. I just feel like if I had known about the getting off the platform and how it could be. But I think that these scammers are on all the social media and dating platforms just, you know, waiting for someone to take the bait.

[A]

What's the most important advice that you would give someone who might be in the early stages?

[B]

Never, ever give your personal information, no matter what, and they may try to trick you. Just super careful.

[A]

Do you think there's a target on older women?

[B]

Well, I think it's happening to both men and women because these scammers can pose as women and men.

[A]

I mean, I think there's a special place in hell for scammers who target the elderly.

[B]

Yep.

[A]

What message would you have for the perpetrator of these scams if they were listening?

[B]

I don't know where these people are from, but they have families, they have mothers, they had sisters. But they really want this to happen to their family members. I don't think they would.

[A]

For your family members or friends or anyone out there who might suspect that a loved one is the victim of a scam or in the early stages of getting romance or investment scammed or both. What advice would you offer them on how to approach the situation and help their loved one?

[B]

I would tell them to run. And it's hard to say, do your due diligence, but just really go with your gut, because there was a couple of times like it was you know, gut, but then they just coaxed it away.

[A]

But what about a family or friend who's seeing their loved one talking to somebody online and they never met him or her and it feels a little suspicious?

[B]

Yeah, I would definitely say no. Just try to end it if you can or more proof. And it's hard. How do you if that person is making excuses of why they can't show their face or why they can't be where they say they're going to be, then I would say please don't do it. That's why I want to just have anyone or everyone that hears this and hears anything that no matter what, anyone can be fooled, including myself.

[A]

What do you hope will be the lasting impact of sharing your story and your advocacy work?

[B]

I hope that people will see this and take heed and believe me that I do not want this to happen to another single person. It's a nightmare, you know you can't know how your story is going to end. The only thing, like I say, I'm thankful for a great job that I have and my health. Otherwise, every day is a new day and all you can do is pray for the best because it's awful.

[A]

I'm so sorry, I cannot imagine Jackie, but thank you so much for the courage to speak up and to help others. We really appreciate you taking the time to be here and sharing your story.

[B]

Oh sure.

[A]

Scams, Money and Murder is hosted by me, Nicole Lapin and is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. My guest today was Jackie Crenshaw. Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your continued support. If you like what you heard here today, reach out on all social media rimehouse and don't forget to rate, review and follow Scams, Money and Murder wherever you get your prime podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference. And for ad free listening plus early access and bonus content, subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts this episode was brought to life by the Scams, Money and Murder team, Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benedon, Stacey Warrenker, Sarah Camp, and Paul Libeskin. If you love Scams, Money and Murder, check out our Crime House original Conspiracy Theories, Cults and Crimes for the world's darkest truths, follow Conspiracy Theories, Cults and Crimes now. Wherever you get your podcasts. And for ad free listening and early access to episodes, subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts.