Podcast Summary: Scammed to Death: Amelia Dyer's Baby Farm. Pt. 1

Podcast: Scams, Money, & Murder
Hosts: Vanessa Richardson & Carter Roy
Guest: Dr. Tristan Engels
Date: October 30, 2025

Overview

This episode dives deep into the life and crimes of Amelia Dyer, one of history’s most notorious yet lesser-known serial killers, infamous for her role as a murderous baby farmer in Victorian England. Through a blend of narrative and psychological analysis, hosts Vanessa Richardson and Carter Roy, joined by Dr. Tristan Engels, unpack how social pressures, desperate circumstances, and personal trauma converged to create a prolific child murderer whose actions expose the ugly underbelly of Victorian society—where societal stigmas and legal loopholes enabled devastating exploitation.

Listener Advisory: Contains discussion of child murder and suicide.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Victorian Context: Death and Desperation

• Amelia Dyer’s Early Life and Family Trauma
  • Born in 1837 to a prosperous shoemaker’s family, Amelia enjoyed rare access to education as a girl in Victorian England.
  • Witnessed the decline and death of her mother due to typhus at age 11, following earlier losses of siblings.
  • “Losing a parent at a young age can be very traumatic... But witnessing a parent's decline in this way can have really significant impacts” (Dr. Engels, 05:40).
  • Frequent childhood exposure to death—16% infant mortality rate was typical—likely fostered a desensitization.

Marriage, Motherhood, and Mounting Pressures

• Amelia’s Relationships and Societal Expectations

  • Her marriage to George Thomas (34 years her senior) after moving out at 14 reflects vulnerabilities and societal pressure.
  • Shortly after becoming a mother, overwhelming financial and emotional stresses set in, exacerbating her risk for postpartum depression.

• Work as a Nurse and the Search for Viable Income

  • The difficulty of aligning the demands of nursing with motherhood in the era, combined with underpaid labor, led Amelia to seek alternative income.

Baby Farming and the Road to Ruin

• Introduction to Baby Farming through Ellen Dame

  • Midwife Ellen Dame offered shelter and clandestine services to pregnant women shunned by society.
  • The ‘baby farming’ business model: profit depended on minimization of expenses (often via neglect), with payment upfront meaning a baby’s untimely death was most “profitable.”
  • “Neglect equaled profit. And if a baby happened to die... that was the most profitable kind of client” (Vanessa, 13:53).

• Amelia Imitates and Adapts the Model

  • Copied Dame’s methods, started her own operation post-widowhood (1869).
  • Briefly left baby farming after increased scrutiny and a coworker’s hanging for murder, but returned after remarriage (to Thomas Dyer).

Escalation: Routine Murder under the Guise of Business

• Evolving from Neglect to Active Killing

  • By the 1870s, Amelia performed ‘arranged stillbirths’—deliberately smothering babies at birth, providing plausible deniability.

  • “This is murder... the act of killing another with intention... and it became illegal in England since the Murder Act of 1751” (Dr. Engels, 18:53).

  • High infant mortality rates and poor records let her operate with impunity for years.

• Drug Use and Health Consequences

  • Anxiety, postpartum issues, and physical pain led Amelia to regular opium use (self-medication and infant sedation).
  • Administered ‘Godfrey’s Cordial’ (opium tincture), widespread at the time, but in excessive and ultimately fatal doses.

Early Investigations and Legal Limits

• Alfred and May Walters: The Fatalities that Raised Alarm

  • Deaths of infants in her care, suspicious use of false names, and uncharacteristically involving a doctor, led to coroner investigation (1879).
  • Amelia attempted suicide after the deaths drew official scrutiny.
  • The court found insufficient evidence for murder due to high infant mortality and common use of opiates, instead convicting her for neglect and violating the Infant Life Protection Act.
  • Six months' prison was her only penalty.

• Psychological Complexity and Remorse

  • Despite evidence of calculated murder, Amelia cared for her biological children and showed differentiated attachment—striking Dr. Engels as a “Jekyll and Hyde” personality (29:09), created more by environment than inherent lack of empathy.

Cycle of Crime and Partial Penalties

• Recidivism and Systemic Failures

  • Post-prison, lack of resources drove her back to baby farming despite brief periods of legitimate work (corset making).

  • “One of the biggest things, indicators for recidivism is not being able to meet your basic needs” (Dr. Engels, 32:18).

  • With lessons learned, Amelia became more secretive: used aliases, moved frequently, and courted richer clients.

  • Discussed the inability of consequences alone to deter those with anti-social traits.

Refinement and Greed Supersede Survival

• Scale and Sophistication
  • By the mid-1880s, Amelia’s operations expanded. “It felt like it was a survival thing... Now it feels like just greed” (Vanessa, 38:06).
  • Increasing amounts charged, virtually no oversight, and even use of deceptive tactics with clients.

The Governess Incident—Turning Point?

• A Lasting Mistake: Failure to Produce a Baby
  • In 1890, a wealthy governess returned to claim her child, only to discover Amelia’s deception.
  • After a failed bluff, both parents returned and Amelia panicked, eventually fleeing after the police began to investigate her disappearance.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Parental Loss and Child Development:
  “A child who's 12, like Amelia, for example, understands that this death is irreversible... So they're more likely to experience anger and rebellion as a trauma response.” — Dr. Engels (05:40)

• On the Baby Farming Ethos:
  “Neglect equaled profit. And if a baby happened to die... that was the most profitable kind of client.” — Vanessa (13:53)

• On Period Drug Use:
  "Godfrey’s Cordial—a medicine containing opium—was the same drug Amelia took in her possible suicide attempt... but it was also a substance commonly given to infants of the era." — Vanessa (25:25)

• On the Failure of Victorian Law:
  “He said he had, quote, no moral doubt that these children were hurried to their grave by improper food and drugging… but he couldn’t provide direct evidence that Amelia purposefully caused any of the children's deaths.” — Vanessa (27:08)

• On Recidivism:
  “One of the biggest things, indicators for recidivism is not being able to meet your basic needs.” — Dr. Engels (32:18)

• The Governess' Mistaken Baby:
  “The governess showed Amelia the baby's hips. There was no birthmark, and those don't change. Amelia asked for a tiny bit of the final payment and told the governess to come back in a couple of weeks...” — Vanessa (43:27)

Timestamps for Major Segments

• Introduction and Framing (00:47–02:17)
• Amelia’s Childhood, Family Trauma, and Early Losses (04:45–07:00)
• Marriage, Motherhood, Exposure to Baby Farming (09:00–13:53)
• Descent Into Crime: Baby Farming Turned Murder (16:15–20:16)
• Infant Deaths, Legal Investigation and Trial (20:16–28:16)
• Psychological Profile: Nature vs. Nurture (28:16–31:06)
• Release from Prison and Recidivism Discussion (32:18–35:12)
• Transition from Survival to Greed (38:06–39:42)
• The Governess Incident and Final Disappearance (39:42–43:45)

Tone and Style

Maintaining a careful blend of narrative intrigue and expert analysis, Vanessa and Carter use empathetic, precise language, seamlessly mixing historical context with contemporary psychological insights. Dr. Engels frequently grounds the discussion with references to mental health frameworks and social theory, often challenging listeners to consider both societal and individual influences behind Dyer’s crimes.

Closing Thoughts

This first installment in the Amelia Dyer series exposes the peril of unchecked desperation and societal neglect, vividly illustrating how cultural taboos and weak legal oversight enabled horrific crimes to persist. With its potent mix of narrative, empathy, and expert clarity, the episode lays essential groundwork for next week’s conclusion, promising a deeper probe into Dyer’s ultimate downfall and more probing questions into what really makes a killer.

Stay tuned for Pt. 2 for the chilling conclusion and further psychological exploration into the mind and crimes of Amelia Dyer.