The Ellen Greenberg Case: A Family’s Search for the Truth | Clues

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Ellen Greenberg Case – A Family’s Search for the Truth | Clues

Podcast: Scams, Money, & Murder (Crime House)
Episode: The Ellen Greenberg Case: A Family’s Search for the Truth | Clues
Release Date: February 12, 2026
Hosts: Kayla Moore & Morgan Absher

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Episode Overview

This gripping episode explores the mysterious and controversial death of Ellen Greenberg, a Philadelphia teacher found dead in her locked apartment with over 20 stab wounds. The case, initially ruled a suicide by police, has been challenged for years by Ellen’s family, who believe the original investigation was gravely mishandled (“botched”). Kayla and Morgan analyze timeline details, forensic evidence, investigative missteps, the family’s relentless pursuit of justice, and the current status of the case.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Case Timeline & Immediate Events

• January 26, 2011:
  • Ellen Greenberg left work early due to a snowstorm. She communicated with friends and family throughout the day, expressing stress but no indication of suicidal thoughts (03:27).
  • By evening, fiancé Sam Goldsberg returned from the apartment gym to find the door latched from the inside (05:24). He texted and called Ellen repeatedly, escalated to anger, and eventually enlisted help from the building’s security guard, Phil Hanton (05:30–06:29).
  • Sam ultimately broke the latch, entered, and discovered Ellen’s body in the kitchen. He then placed a fraught, now widely analyzed 911 call at 6:33pm (06:33, transcript 09:30+).

Quote:
"I have to. Right? … Oh my God, she stabbed herself. … There's a knife sticking out of her heart."
—Sam Goldsberg on 911 call (09:34–10:18)

2. Ellen’s Background & Circumstances Leading Up to Her Death

• Personal context: 27-year-old beloved teacher, close to her parents, recently engaged to Sam (11:35).
• Reported mental health struggles:
  • Ellen described as joyful and loving but stressed by work.
  • Sought psychiatric help weeks before her death, was prescribed a combination of Zoloft, Xanax, Ambien, and Klonopin (23:53).
  • She journaled about her medication, had future appointments, and told her psychiatrist she was not suicidal (25:27).

3. Crime Scene & Police Handling

• Door & apartment findings:
  • Security latch on the apartment door broken, with small localized damage. No witnesses heard loud bangs (14:10).
  • Building manager revealed that the latches could sometimes be locked from outside, challenging the assumption of a locked-room suicide (16:05).
• Scene observations:
  • No sign of robbery or forced entry other than the latch. Valuables untouched (18:26).
  • Kitchen in order; only a tipped knife block and a few cooking items out (19:07).
• Ellen’s body:
  • Found with a knife in her chest, clutching a towel, and bearing multiple stab wounds and significant bruising (20:21, 29:57).
• Immediate ruling & “botched” clean-up:
  • Initially ruled suicide; police lifted crime scene status within hours (26:11).
  • Apartment professionally cleaned, and evidence—including laptops and cell phone—removed before autopsy completed, eliminating forensic possibilities (28:12).

Quote:
"They scrubbed the entire kitchen...ran knives, utensils through the dishwasher...everything had been washed away."
—Kayla Moore (27:22)

4. Forensic Red Flags

• Bruising:
  • Medical examiner found deep, extensive bruises on Ellen’s arms, abdomen, and legs; some reviewers argued these resembled defensive or restraint injuries, though no history of domestic violence was reported (30:47).
• Severity and Location of Stab Wounds:
  • Initial scene reported ~7 wounds; autopsy revealed 20, including 10 to the back of neck, spine, and skull—some in locations that could cause paralysis or death before “final” chest stabbing (32:49–33:32).

Quote:
"10 of Ellen’s knife wounds were to her back, in her neck, her spine, and the back and top of her skull. … Highly unlikely this was suicide."
—Morgan Absher (32:49)

5. Lost/Mishandled Evidence & Conflicting Reports

• Missing/handled evidence:
  • Laptops and cell phone handled by family before being turned over, breaking chain of custody.
  • One laptop contained searches for “depressed,” “suicide,” and “suicide method”—but these could have been manipulated (38:20–38:49).
• Changing rulings:
  • Medical examiner Dr. Osborne first ruled homicide, then changed to suicide after pressure from police (41:02).
  • The closed case left the family with unanswered questions and suspicion of investigative bias.

6. Independent Expert Reviews & Family Advocacy

• Family-commissioned reviews identified:
  • Bruises consistent with “repeated beating” and evidence of strangulation (42:54).
  • Blood flow on Ellen’s body suggested her position was changed postmortem (43:57).
  • Forensic pathologist reports indicated that wounds to spine/neck would have incapacitated her before final chest wound, making suicide physically improbable (47:06–48:23).
• Persistent family efforts:
  • Multiple lawsuits, media pressure, and a Hulu docuseries ("Death in Apartment 603") eventually spurred another official review and a $650,000 settlement plus new investigation—yet in 2025, a report again cited “no inconsistency” with suicide (49:01–50:33).

Quote:
"[Her parents] want this case to continue to be talked about, to raise awareness, to put pressure...it's just so tragic that they are still left without real, true answers because of how it was handled."
—Morgan Absher (54:06)

7. Community & Online Theories

• Public remains divided:
  • Three camps: (1) Suicide in highly unusual manner; (2) Medication-induced psychosis; (3) Homicide, possibly involving Sam or an unknown person (50:33).
  • Hesitation wounds (shallow stabs), and absence of a “smoking gun” continue to fuel debate (52:05–53:29).
• Additional suspicions:
  • Amateur sleuths highlighted a “suspicious man” on surveillance, but little official investigation into alternative suspects or neighbor interviews (55:16–55:33).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Kayla Moore on clean-up:

  • "They scrubbed the entire kitchen. ... All in the dishwasher. By the time they were done, the apartment was spotless." (27:22)

• On autopsy findings:

  • "10 of Ellen’s knife wounds were to her back, in her neck, her spine, and the back and top of her skull. ... Highly unlikely this was suicide." – Morgan Absher (32:49)

• On the absence of the suicide note:

  • "Only about 30% of suicide cases actually include one." – Kayla Moore (25:52)

• On changing official cause of death:

  • "In this autopsy, Ellen's cause of death was changed back to suicide. It emphasized...the apartment was locked from the inside and that there were no signs of a struggle." – Kayla Moore (41:20)

• On police narrative vs. evidence:

  • "Depending on where you stand...this could be a botched mark for you. Was this really the medical examiner's decision or were they pressured to change their opinion?" – Morgan Absher (41:30)

• On the lasting effect of investigation mistakes:

  • "Sam now lives with this stain kind of over his head." – Morgan Absher (51:32)

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Key Segments & Timestamps

• Case timeline and events of Ellen's death:

  • 03:27–12:47

• 911 call reactions and analysis:

  • 09:30–10:27

• Crime scene walk-through, door lock, and initial police response:

  • 14:14–19:25

• Forensic findings and autopsy details:

  • 21:30–33:32

• Cleanup and “botched” handling by police:

  • 26:11–29:01

• Devices, computer searches, and digital evidence issues:

  • 38:20–39:20

• Expert reviews, family advocacy, and ongoing legal saga:

  • 42:54–50:33

• Community theories and lack of closure:

  • 50:33–55:49

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Theories & Unanswered Questions

• Homicide or suicide?
  • Physical impossibility of self-inflicting certain wounds post-spinal injury; absence of struggle and defensive wounds cloud the narrative.
  • Did door truly lock from inside, or could it be manipulated? Was Sam’s timeline airtight?
• Mishandling of evidence:
  • Chain of custody on critical devices broken; professional cleaning eliminated physical evidence before homicide determination.
• Third-party involvement:
  • Amateur reports of a “suspicious” individual never deeply investigated.

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Advocacy & Next Steps

• Family continues to seek justice:

  • The Greenbergs spent their own funds and won a settlement, but are not satisfied with official conclusions.
  • Learn more: justiceforellengreenberg.com

• Call to action:

  • Raise awareness about mental health, domestic violence, and the importance of thorough crime scene investigations.
  • If in crisis: Call/text 988 for suicide & crisis support; 1-800-799-SAFE for domestic violence support (55:51).

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Conclusion

Ellen Greenberg’s case remains unsolved and highly contested, emblematic of the consequences when crime scenes are mishandled. Despite years of advocacy and mounting forensic doubts about suicide, official findings remain unchanged—leaving family, experts, and the public searching for truth and justice.

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For comment and discussion, connect with Clues @cluespodcast on Instagram. Hosts encourage listeners to share theories, questions, or anything missed in this complex and tragic case.

Transcript

[Podcast Host (Crime House Intro)]

On the Crime House original podcast, Serial Killers and Murderous Minds, we're diving into the psychology of the world's most complex murder cases.

[Dr. Tristan Ingalls (Forensic Psychologist)]

From serial killers to cult leaders, deadly exes, and spree killers, we're examining not just how they killed, but why.

[Podcast Host (Crime House Intro)]

Is it uncontrollable rage? Overwhelming fear? Or is it something deeper? Serial Killers and Murderous Minds is a Crime House Studios original new episodes drop every Monday and Thursday. Follow wherever you get your podcasts.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

This is Crime House.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

You guys. I am reeling over today's case. We're talking about a teacher who was found dead inside of her Philadelphia apartment. The door was locked from the inside and there were more than 20 staff stab wounds on her body.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Investigators thought this was cut and dry, no foul play was involved, but then a medical examiner ruled otherwise. Her family calls it a botched investigation. So is someone getting away with Ellen Greenberg's murder? Hi, guys. Welcome back to Clues, where we sneak past the crime scene tape to explore the key evidence behind some of the most gripping true crime cases.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

I'm Kayla Moore. I'm going to be the one diving deeper into the timelines, the backstories, and the court files released on these cases.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

And I'm your Internet sleuth, Morgan Absher, diving into everything I can find online, including Reddit threads, looking at those lesser known details and pulling at threads that just don't add up.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

This is a big one for you today, Morgan, then.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Oh, sure is.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Don't forget to share your thoughts on social. If you want ad free listening and early access, you can subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts. Let's get into this case and the clues that defined it. This is Coke. Zero sugar with real Coca Cola taste and zero sugar. Listen closely. Hear those bubbles? That's the sound of delicious. Real Coca Cola taste and zero sugar. Ice cold cook. Zero sugar. Real Coca Cola taste, zero sugar.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

This one is gonna have a lot of people probably going back and forth with themselves.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, even as this case unfolds, it goes back and forth a lot. But cannot wait to hear what the community has to say about this one. I know because Morgan and I are mad about this one.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Very confused, very conflicted. Um, I went through basically everything I can find online. The Reddit forums are very heavily leaning one way. We'll get into that as we dive in, but Ellen Greenberg's case is very confusing and without further ado. Let's just get into it.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Let's get into it. We're going to have some Some images, videos, a couple 911 calls, I think today on our YouTube channel. And if you're listening to the audio, you can find those same assets on our Instagram. That's @clues podcast on Instagram.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

And a warning for this episode, it does include graphic discussions of mental health, suicide, domestic violence and murder. So please listen with care.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Yeah, please guys, listen with care. All right. This case starts on Wednesday, January 26, 2011 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. A snowstorm was bearing down on the city. 27 year old Ellen Greenberg woke up in her luxury two bedroom apartment with her 28 year old fiance Sam Goldsberg. Ellen was a first grade teacher. Sam was a producer for NBC Sports. And that day, 7am, Ellen was headed to work at the Juniata Park Academy. It's a public school eight miles from her home. On the way, Ellen called her mother Sandy, who said that they had a, quote, pleasant conversation. No alarms were set off during this. Ellen did admit though that she was stressed about submitting grades for her students. It was a lot of pressure managing a class of 30 to 40 kids at an inner city school. Though that day she was going to get a bit of a break because shortly before noon administrators announced school was being let out early because of this storm that was coming. So at 1:15pm Ellen was headed home and she stopped for gas along the way. At 1:32pm she was back at her apartment building and right before Sam came home at 1:51pm, Ellen texted a college friend and she said that she was stressed about work. Over the next two hours, they sent a total of 19 messages back and forth, mostly just chit chatting about how her college friend wasn't feeling very well. And during that time, Ellen also logged into her work laptop to enter grades for her students, the task that she had been dreading. We also have a little bit of info here that at 2:33pm Ellen called a local restaurant. It's unclear though if she was making a reservation, ordering food or the purpose of the call basically. And then at 3:47pm her college friend texted Ellen. But Ellen didn't respond. And an hour later, at 4.46pm, Ellen's laptop was used again. Then at 4.54pm, surveillance footage showed Sam entering the building's gym. The apartment complex had cameras in the entrances to the building, the garage, the lobby and the gym, but not any of the hallways. So we don't know what time he left their unit. But during this time, around 5:24pm, a family friend called Ellen's phone. But Ellen doesn't answer. Minutes later, at 5.30pm, Sam was seen on security cameras leaving the gym and heading back to their apartment. But when Sam got to their door, it was locked. He had a key, but the door had one of those hotel type security latches that could only be locked from the inside. So Sam texts Ellen. He goes, hello, open the door. Three minutes later, he texted her again, quote, what are you doing? Are you just the letters and then doing D O, I N, question mark, exclamation point, question mark, exclamation point. Over the next few minutes, these messages escalated. He wrote, quote, I'm getting pissed. You better have an excuse. And what the. Sam also called Ellen's phone a total of seven times, but no one picks up. At 5:44pm neighbors also heard him shouting her name through the door. And at some point during this period, Sam also calls his cousin who's a good friend, Camion Schwartzman, who's a lawyer. Camion put the call on speakerphone so he and his father James, who is also an attorney, could listen together. They told Sam to go downstairs and ask their building security guard, a man named Phil Hanton, for help. So at 6pm, Sam took the elevator down to the lobby. Phil told Sam that he couldn't leave his desk, but he offered to call Ellen from his line, which he did twice. She doesn't pick up. A minute later, Sam called Ellen again himself. Still no answer. And then Sam sent his last text to Ellen where he said, quote, you have no idea. Over the course of that time, he sent a series of nine texts. They are in order. Hello? Open the door. What are you doing? I'm getting pissed. Hello? You better have an excuse. What the f. Ah. And then you have no idea. That was the last text that was sent. At 6:13pm he was seen on the lobby cameras going back up to the apartment where he called Kamien again. And we don't know exactly what Sam did for the next few minutes, but at around 6:20, he went back down to the lobby. And this time he told Phil, quote, I need to get in my unit. I'm going to knock the door down. At 6:21pm In a last ditch effort, Phil tried calling Ellen again. Then a few minutes later, Sam gets a call from his Uncle James. We don't know what they discussed, but the call lasted 1 minute and 12 seconds. And then at 6:29pm, Sam gets on the elevator again. Then he allegedly began trying to break down the door to his apartment. He supposedly broke the security latch and was able to get into the unit, but I say supposedly because there's no security cameras in those hallways. Sat. We don't really know exactly what he did. Regardless, Sam does get inside. And that's where he sees Ellen's body in the kitchen. She was sprawled across the floor with her head and shoulders resting against the cabinets next to the stove. And two minutes later, Sam called 911. This was at 6:33pm after dialing 91 1, Sam said, quote, help. I need an ambulance now. I just walked into my apartment. My fiance's on the floor with blood everywhere. When the operator asked him to describe Ellen's condition, Sam said, I'm looking at her right now. I can't see anything. There's nothing broken. She's bleeding. The operator then connected Sam to someone within the Philadelphia Fire Department who was sharing info with the paramedics who were on the way. Sam gave them a long explanation about what happened over the last hour, including details about how he had gone to the gym. But the dispatcher was asking questions about Ellen's health, like, was she breathing? And Sam couldn't see her chest moving. He says that he doesn't know if she's breathing. So the dispatcher asked if he would do CPR on her until the paramedics arrived. And his answer kind of has the Internet and a little bit of a tailspin. So we're going to play it here.

[911 Operator]

Okay?

[Sam Goldsberg (Ellen's Fiance, 911 Caller)]

Willing to do CPR with me over the phone so they can. I have to.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Right?

[Sam Goldsberg (Ellen's Fiance, 911 Caller)]

Okay. To get her flat on her back, bury her chest.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Okay.

[Sam Goldsberg (Ellen's Fiance, 911 Caller)]

You want to rip her shirt off. Okay. You need to kneel down by her side. Oh, my God. Allie, please. Listen, listen. You can't freak out, so. Okay, I'm trying not. I'm trying not.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

He said, quote, I have to. Right? They told him to lay Ellen's body flat on the floor. And after almost two minutes on the phone, Sam yelled, quote, oh, my God, she stabbed herself. This is where Sam goes on to describe the crime scene a little bit more. He can see that there's a knife in her chest. We're going to play part of the call here, too.

[Sam Goldsberg (Ellen's Fiance, 911 Caller)]

Her shirt won't come off. It's a zipper.

[911 Operator]

Oh, my God.

[Sam Goldsberg (Ellen's Fiance, 911 Caller)]

She stabbed herself.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Where?

[Sam Goldsberg (Ellen's Fiance, 911 Caller)]

She fell in a knife. Oh, no. Her knife's sticking out.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

What?

[Sam Goldsberg (Ellen's Fiance, 911 Caller)]

There's a knife sticking out of her heart. Oh, she stabbed herself? I guess so. I don't know where she fell on it. I don't know. Okay, well, don't touch it.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

So if you couldn't hear him, he said she Fell on a knife. Oh no, her knife sticking out. There's a knife sticking out of her heart. So at 6:36pm on January 26, 2011, paramedics rushed up to Ellen and Sam's apartment and that's where they found Ellen in a semi upright position. And they're very small kitchen with a knife handle sticking out of her chest. She was declared dead at 6:40pm and five minutes later at 6:45pm the Philadelphia Police arrived. But I want to rewind for a quick second and I want to talk a little bit more about who Ellen was. So Ellen was born on June 23, 1983 in New York City, but she was raised in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. She was an only child to her parents, Sandy and Joshua. Sandy described Ellen as, quote, so joyful and fun loving. Her best childhood friend said, quote, to be around Ellen, you felt like you belonged. And her dad, Joshua said that she brought determination to everything that she did, whether it was being a student, a high school news reporter, a tennis or a softball player. After high school, Ellen went to Pennsylvania State University and she majored in communication. She wanted to be a speech pathologist, but after college she became a teacher. She moved to Philadelphia and studied at night to get her teaching credentials and her master's degree in education. And not long after, she began teaching at Juniata Park Academy. But Ellen's relationship came above everything. One of Ellen's friends said, quote, she wanted to be in love. She wanted to have a family. She was ready to start her Life. Sometime around 2007, a friend actually set Ellen up with Sam Goldsberg. Now, he was from a wealthy Pennsylvania family. He worked for NBC Sports filming golf tournaments. And after talking and texting for about a month, Ellen and Sam met up in person. And the rest was history. Ellen called Sam her knight in shining armor. Both of her parents approved of him and eventually she and Sam moved in together. At some point between 2008 and 2010, they signed a lease at the Venice Lofts apartment building. And then In June of 2010, after almost three years together, Sam proposed to her. They set a wedding date for August 13, 2011. However, as we know now, that day would not come.

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[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

So, going back to the crime scene, let's see how this all starts unfolding. One of the first things that officers noticed was the door's security latch was broken. The rest of the door, the hinges, the wooden structure, all of that looked totally fine. It was literally just that latch. And the latch, like if you've been to a hotel, it's like there's two parts. One's on the door, one's across, it swings over. The part that was actually ripped out was like the hook part of this bolt. The police report said, quote, the lock was damaged with the screws having been partially pulled out, which is actually our first clue.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Yeah. So everyone, I mean, you're gonna see this on YouTube and definitely check out our Instagram if you're listening. But you can see where the part of the door where the metal piece is, is broken. But the, the part that's attached to the door frame is not broken at all. No, it looks good. And it is kind of surprising hearing that someone kicked in the door. Like, when I heard that the door was kicked in, that wasn't the image I was expecting to see. It doesn't look like as much damage as I was anticipating.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

I know it's, it's quite surprising.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Yeah. But I don't know. What do you guys think?

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Chime in I. I've never kicked down a door personally, so I don't I don't know what I'm supposed to be looking at. And police are also getting Sam's story right. He went to the gym. He came back up, the door was locked. Phil, the guy downstairs, couldn't help him, so he had to kick this door in. But there's a few problems with this statement. First of all, no one witnessed Sam break the lockdown. The neighbors said that they actually didn't hear any loud noises or banging on the door. So even if the lock was broken, police couldn't reliably say when it had happened. And, I mean, neighbors had heard him kind of out yelling in the hall before telling Ellen to open the door.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

But they didn't hear him kicking on the door, didn't hear that yelling. Okay, interesting.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

And according to Melissa Ware, the building manager, the security latches could lock from the outside. She had actually witnessed this herself. Melissa told a CNN reporter, quote, if you shut the door hard enough, it swings the latch. I've done it. I didn't do it on purpose, but I'm sure if I needed to, I could replicate the same thing. Which means that Ellen might not have been the one to lock the door from the inside. Someone leaving the apartment could have done it either accidentally or. Or on purpose. But the police weren't aware of that detail at the time.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

So at the time they see this, they're just assuming Ellen was the one that locked the door.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

And I've also, like. I mean, there's like, coat hook tricks. Like, this is super weird, but, like, there's tricks where, like, you can bend a coat hanger.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

I think about this every time I'm in a hotel room, because I always close that lock when I'm in a hotel room. And I'm always like, someone could open the door just a little bit and mess with the lock and probably get it undone.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Yeah. So I'm like, it's not as fun, foolproof. And clearly investigators didn't know that.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

No. And, I mean, we're asking these questions, but by the time the investigators get to the scene, they're just taking Sam's word on everything, that he broke this lock moments before he came into the apartment and found Ellen. And besides, the police had bigger issues to focus on, like the growing crowd at the crime scene. There were at least eight police officers, detectives, and crime scene specialists. And then the apartment manager, Melissa Ware, was also there. There were also several neighbors in the hallway just trying to figure out what was going on. Also, James and Kamian, Sam's uncle and cousin, had driven 45 minutes through the snowstorm to come. Support Sam. An investigator from the Philadelphia Medical examiner named Stephen Alchewski was also there. He was in charge of documenting the crime scene. Alchewski noted the broken door latch, too, but he was really focusing on other details in this crime scene. He noted that, quote, the apartment is well kept and clean. There are numerous valuables present. Money, keys, and three laptop computers, furniture, and items appear in place. Nothing is obviously missing or disturbed. So to him, this doesn't look like a robbery. Definitely not off the bat.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Yeah. No. And here's the details. There's nothing missing. Expensive items like computers, like, yeah, the lottery are out.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

No one came and took anything.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Yeah.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

But he still looked at whether there were other ways in and out of the apartment, namely the balcony. Alchevsky wrote, the only way to exit the apartment other than the front doorway is through a rear slider leading onto a patio. But there were two problems with this scenario. One, the snow below the window was completely untouched. There was no footprints. There was no tracks. It wasn't disturbed, like someone had messed around down there. Though it is worth mentioning that the snow was still falling. So, I mean, that could have covered up anything that was going on in the snow or any evidence.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

As someone that's lived through a lot of blizzards, tracks can disappear so quickly.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

I mean, we even talked about it in the Karen Reid case. Just the snow is kind of refilling everything.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

If it's windy, a snowdrift could wipe that completely clean in a matter of minutes. Yes. Like, it's not impossible for them to disappear.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

But the balcony was on the sixth floor of this building. You're not really jumping out of the sixth floor down into the snow below. I don't care how deep the snow is. Like, it would have to be very deep for you to land that fall. So Alchevsky ruled out the patio escape route theory pretty quickly. And he circled back to the kitchen. He described it like this. Quote, two kitchen knives are in the sink adjacent to the body. They are free of any blood or tissue. The sink underneath is dry and also bears no evidence of blood or tissue. A knife block is on the counter between the sink and range. It is turned over to the side. Alchevsky stated that there was no sign of a struggle, but he did highlight that the knife block was tipped over. He also noted on the countertop there was a spatula, a fork, a paring knife, a pitcher of water, and a colander of fresh blueberries.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

And if you don't know what a colander is it's basically a strainer because I did have to look this up, you guys.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Olchevsky moved on to Ellen's body next and he said that she was found, quote, on the hardwood kitchen floor located just inside of the door entrance. Her head and some of her upper body slash shoulders were resting against the lower half of the white kitchen cabinets. She was wearing a zipper up dark colored shirt over a T shirt, gray sweatpants underwear and light brown Ugg boots. A pair of eyeglasses rested on the floor to her right. A white towel was grasped in her left hand. A hair tie or scrunchie was on her right wrist. The knife was embedded in her left chest through her clothing. The knife was a Cutco brand serrated steak knife which matched the knives in the block on the counter. But it was the wounds that were on Ellen that really stood out to him and he described them like this. Quote, there are multiple stab wounds examined at the scene. At the chest where the knife is located. A few superficial grouped nearby. One to the left upper chest near the clavicle, two more at the mid chest and just below the breasts. He didn't provide an exact tally, but he did note about seven stab wounds.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Olchefski goes on to look further into the apartment and kind of next goes into the bedroom, which is when he finds something that's going to end up being pretty important to this investigation. He noted that there were prescription bottles for Xanax, Klonopin and Ambien all in the nightstand, which is clue number two for us. Ellen's purse also had a journal of her medications and how she was feeling. Sam told the police that Ellen was taking medications due to stress at work. We don't know everything Sam told police, but we know he told the 911 operator that Ellen, quote, stabbed herself, kind of indicating that off the bat, it was suicide.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Before we dive into this, we do do want to acknowledge that mental health is a deeply serious and nuanced issue. Oftentimes we don't know that people are struggling. It, it can come as such a shock and surprise and we can't do anything until it's too late.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

And it's hard to speculate on the ways in which someone was struggling when you don't know them personally.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Absolutely. And as we heard, Ellen's friends described her as bubbly and outgoing. But that doesn't mean that Ellen wasn't dealing with mental health issues during that time. Like two things can be true at once. In the months leading up to her death. Ellen made it clear to her friends and family that she was dealing with anxiety. She told people she was stressed about work. Ellen's friend and coworker, Amy, remembered Ellen breaking down in tears about her teaching job. Ellen told multiple people, including her parents and Sam, that she actually wanted to quit. It was just that stressful. And in the hours before her death, Ellen was stressed about getting all those grades in.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Yeah, she had told multiple people that it was.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

I mean, it was one of the last things she was doing on her computer.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Putting those grades in. And apparently in the months before, she even told her parents that she wanted to go and stay with them for a while. There seemed to be some strains on Ellen and Sam's relationship. Sam traveled a lot for work, and one of Ellen's friends said that she had some, quote, insecurities about her relationship with Sam, but nothing that seemed threatening or violent. I know a lot of people online also kind of talk about her, not really talking about their upcoming wedding. Like, if friends would bring it up, it was kind of like, oh, yeah, you know, it'll happen, whatever. Like, it wasn't this big conversation. So there was some issues. People were kind of.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Which I'm sure they flagged as being a little odd.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Yeah, they thought it was like, why is. Why aren't they excited? Why aren't they talking about this more? It's just kind of goofy to them. We also know that two weeks before her death, Ellen started seeing a psychiatrist, someone named Dr. Berman, who she visited on January 12th, 17th, and the 19th. Dr. Berman's notes from the first visit say, quote, wants things in control my whole life. Hard worker, anxious, not sleeping, job sucks. On January 17, Dr. Berman's notes said, quote, she wants to quit, but mom and fiance don't want her to. But Dr. Berman added Ellen was, quote, not suicidal. And from a Note on the 19th, quote, Ellen feels 75% better, agrees she should just get through till June. Dr. Berman's overall assessment was that Ellen had severe anxiety due to, quote, difficulty with work, overwhelmed, and felt pressure. Ellen also denied any verbal or physical confrontations in her life. And so Dr. Berman prescribed her Zoloft and then switched her to a lower dose of Xanax. When that didn't work, Dr. Berman prescribed her Ambien and Klonopin to help her sleep. Ellen's autopsy later showed only a trace amount of Ambien and Klonopin in her system. Both do have various side effects. For example, Ambien, in rare cases, can trigger anxiety and delusions. Klonopin in rare cases, can cause thoughts of suicide. But Ellen was monitoring her mental health with a professional. I mean, she had a little journal about medications and, like, how she was feeling.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Yeah, she was going about this the right way.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

The right way. And according to people close to her, she'd been feeling better. She even had an appointment scheduled on the 27th with Dr. Berman, which was the day after her death. There was also no suicide note, though. I think it is like a common misconception, like, that there's usually a suicide note left, although only about 30% of suicide cases actually include one.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Yeah, that was something I was surprised to learn.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Same.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

I feel like in the media, it's like kind of a very common thing that a note is left behind.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

You're always told about the note, and then when I told you. But when my cousin died, we asked the cops, we were like, yeah, but there was no note. And then the cop had to pull us aside and be like, there's actually very rarely a note.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

It's so surprising to me.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Yeah, yeah, really heartbreaking, too. Well, around 10:30pm Sam was brought in for questioning. But the investigators had made up their minds. At this point, they felt like this did not seem like a homicide at all. In their opinion, the stab wounds were all self inflicted. Ellen's death was ruled a suicide, which meant that the apartment officially was no longer considered a crime scene. Evidence did not need to be preserved, and something was about to happen that was going to destroy any lingering clues. So the next morning, on January 27th, apartment manager Melissa Ware received a call from Sam's uncle, James Schwarzman. According to Melissa, he said he needed to retrieve some personal items for Ellen's funeral. Melissa called the Philadelphia police for permission, and they gave it. But Melissa was worried that family members might see all the blood in the apartment when they came over to collect her things. So the police agreed to let Melissa hire a cleaning company to sanitize the apartment. The company was literally called crime scene cleanup. Morgan getting that botchboard out?

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Yeah, botchboard.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

And they cleaned everything. I mean, that's their job, right? To make sure that there's not a single drop of blood left.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

No, not on them at all.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

They scrubbed the entire kitchen. They removed all the blood. They ran knives, utensils through the dishwasher. Remember, the knives are all, like, part of the crime scene initially. All in the dishwasher. By the time they were done, the apartment was spotless. Like they had done their job, but everything had been washed away. And according to Melissa, Sam's uncle James arrived shortly after the apartment was cleaned. He was there for all of 15 minutes. Melissa didn't really see what he did inside, but she knows that he took Ellen's purse, her cell phone and two laptops from the apartment, which is so odd.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Why do you need all of her devices if you're getting things for her funeral?

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

I don't know. I know. I don't know that one. I really, I. I mean, we're gonna get into it later because obviously the laptops become important in this, but it's just, it's interesting. Those were the items that he grabbed.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Yeah. I also just think, like, it's, I don't know, like, not to preserve things such as a knife when you don't really know right now. Like you didn't really investigate. You didn't pull the knife and pull fingerprints off of it to see if there were any other prints on it besides Ellen's. Like, how are you so conclusively ruling this right away? So again, that's why it got a botched mark, like to not preserve anything.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

It was so fast that everything was just cleaned spotless.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Who would ever want those knives again? Take them, bag them up, bring them with you. No, that's a good something.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Yeah, that's a good point.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

To put them in the dishwasher. What's he going to do, put them back in the knife block?

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Yeah, yeah, right, right.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

No. Oh. So at around 9am that same day, Dr. Marlon Osborne of the Philadelphia Medical Examiner's office started Ellen's autopsy. Immediately he saw a detail that could contradict the suicide theory. And that autopsy detail is our third clue. So the night before, medical examiner Stephen Alchevsky, the one who was at the crime scene, kind of taking notes, he said that there were no self defense wounds on Ellen's body. However, Dr. Osborne found 11 bruises. The report said, quote, Ellen had one bruise on her abdomen, three more above her right knee, three more on her right thigh. She had a large dark bruise on her upper right arm, just below the shoulder. She had three more on her right forearm, including a vivid round one near the wrist.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

And when I initially heard this, I thought, I mean, I always have like little bruises on me from like, I don't know, just kicking things or bumping into.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

I bruise like a peach.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Right, Exactly. I thought they were going to be these little bruises. We saw this computer rendering of what the bruises looked like on her body. They were huge. Yeah, some of them were really big, Morgan.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Really, really big and really deep bruises.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Like, like she had been hit by, I don't know, by something. I don't know.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

They were really deep bruises. And I do just want to be really clear, like, there was no domestic violence charges ever filed by Ellen or Sam. Ellen didn't mention anything to her friends, family, or even her psychiatrist. But I will say, like, this is so common for people not to mention their abuse. Like, it comes up time and time again for me on two hot takes.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Where people just, I was gonna say.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Are anonymously writing in a Reddit and the Internet and, like, talking about how bad their part is or this abuse is, or they might not even realize that's what's happening is abuse. Like, oh, they just grabbed my wrist.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Right, right.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

But I was in the way. Like, when you're going through something like that, you might not realize and you might not tell the people closest to you. And so kind of regardless of how Ellen received the bruises, one thing was certain. The stab wounds were the real cause of death. Ellen had a 5 inch serrated blade sticking out of her chest. But before it punctured her heart, it had caused multiple other injuries, which is why the stab wounds are our fourth clue. The previous night, Olchevsky hadn't counted all the wounds, but he did describe seven of them. But Dr. Osborne discovered Ellen had actually been stabbed 20 times. Big difference. 21 had punctured her liver. One had actually sliced her aorta, the largest blood vessel in the body. Another had penetrated her neck. There were cuts on the top of her head and another near the base of her skull that had caused a hemorrhagic stroke. From a statistical perspective, it was highly unlikely that this was suicide. According to a study cited by the National Institute of health, only about 1 to 3% of all suicide attempts involve cutting instruments such as knives or razor blades. Cases with multiple stab wounds are even lower, like 0.5% to 0.75%, not even like a full 1%. And for women, self inflicted knife wounds are even lower than that. Even more surprising, 10 of Ellen's knife wounds were to her back, in her neck, her spine, and the back and top of her skull. Which is kind of why Dr. Osborne came to the conclusion this wasn't suicide. Like, these would be very hard to reach on yourself.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

I mean, when you just. When you hear that, like, I don't think anyone would ever hear that and think, oh, she must have done that to herself. The back of your head. The back of your head with a knife 10 times.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Yeah, it's very odd. I read the autopsy reports too. And there was like, some speculation in the report that given the location of the stab wounds on the back of her neck, like some of them were around the C2 vertebrae, which a lot of that is movement, like, so from C2 down. Like, if you're getting injured at C2, you're paralyzed from, like, neck down. So there was also speculation that these injuries could have caused her to become immobile. So then how were there further injuries?

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

How could she have kept going?

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Exactly. But he kind of came to this conclusion. Ellen had to have been stabbed by someone else. But who?

[Podcast Host (Crime House Intro)]

What drives a person to kill? Is it uncontrollable rage? Overwhelming fear? Unbearable jealousy? Or is it something deeper? Something in the darkest corner corners of our psyche?

[Dr. Tristan Ingalls (Forensic Psychologist)]

Every Monday and Thursday, the Crime House Original podcast, Serial Killers and Murderous Minds dives deep into the minds of history's most chilling murderers. From infamous serial killers to ruthless cult leaders, deadly exes, and terrifying spree killers. I'm Dr. Tristan Ingalls, a licensed forensic psychologist. Along with Vanessa Richardson's immersive storytelling full of high stakes twists and turns, in every episode of Serial Killers and Murderous Minds, I'll be providing expert analysis of the people involved, not just how they.

[Podcast Host (Crime House Intro)]

Killed, but why Serial Killers and Murderous Minds is a crime House Studios original new episodes drop every Monday and Thursday. Follow wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

And if you're watching on YouTube, you saw the lights change. But that is because Ellen's death was now a homicide. There was, though, a huge issue with this. There wasn't a crime scene anymore to investigate. That was all gone. Still, on January 27, there was a search warrant issued for Sam and Ellen's apartment, but all of the evidence was gone. Like, there's nothing there. It all got scrubbed away. They were able to get, I mean, there. A few things were missed, I guess they were able to get a couple of fingerprints as well as some clothing and other items that they could examine. But there were a few things from the scene that we know were now completely missing.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Yeah. And I guess this is a question maybe for some legal experts out there. I'm surprised there's no guidelines that a crime scene or potential crime scene. Right. Because you just don't know. You've got no idea. You can assume, but I'm surprised that there's no rules dictating that an autopsy of the victim has to be performed prior to anything being cleaned.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Right, right.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Like, how are there no rules for that? Like, let's do the autopsy to be sure and then you can clean the potential Crime scene.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Oh, yeah. That's a really tough one. I know. I know, because that. That makes the most sense. But I could also see kind of on the flip side, if you're the loved. I mean, having kind of been in that position, but like, the loved one of someone who died not because of, like, whether it's suicide or accidental, whatever. Like, not part of a murder. You want to get that cleaned up right away.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Yeah. But necessarily, like, they're typically performed fairly quickly, though. I mean, hers was the next day. It's just. It's interesting.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

But if you're doing a tax report, that can be months. Yeah. So if there's something in that tax report that says it's a crime scene now, I mean, you could have a crime scene in your home for eight months while you're waiting for results. So it's a tough one. I'm curious.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

I mean.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Yeah, I'm curious. If anyone has any perspective on that.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Please add your comments on that.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Obviously, this was, like, a huge botch, because now it is a homicide that they have to investigate and all the evidence is gone. But I can see situations where that's, like, maybe more of a thing, I guess.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Yeah. And as we know, a few things are also missing. And those things are Ellen's electronic devices. A cell phone and two laptops. And one of those laptops is our fifth clue. Sam's uncle James took both of her laptops from the apartment before Ellen's funeral on January 29th. A day after the funeral, James turned the laptops and other devices over to the Philly police, including Sam's computer. They were all sent in for forensic evaluation. Earlier, police noted there wasn't, quote, anything indicative of suicide on the computers. But this time around, there was evidence. One of Ellen's laptops had seven searches for the word quote depressed, six searches for the term suicide and one for the phrase suicide method. Her other laptop was totally clear. There's no way to know if the laptops had been tampered with during those two days. But according to tech experts, it is possible to back date search files. Unfortunately, the Philadelphia police just took it as more evidence of suicide.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Yeah, there's one timeline here where it says on January 10th of 2011, she opened an article on euthanasia and browsed a website about painless suicide. And so they're using that as evidence that she took her own life.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

I will say, though, like, there's the possibility it could have been backdated. Why not just investigate that? Why not bring in the tech expert? The Guru. Whoever knows how to do this computer science and just rule it out.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Well, because their crime scene is gone, and that's going to be a lot more work at this point.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

I know. That's why I added another botched mark.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

So, yeah, we're back to where the investigation kind of started and is being investigated as a suicide again. But this whole investigation was really doomed from the start. The crime scene wiped. The chain of custody on Ellen's devices lost, you know, according to them, Sam's alibi is airtight because he was down at the gym, supposedly at the time of death. Though we don't really know what the time of death was.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

No footage in the hallways, no mention of time of death. What if it was before you went to the gym?

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Exactly. So even though Osborne's autopsy listed her cause of death as homicide, the police were treating it like a suicide still. Then, In March of 2011, two representatives from the Philadelphia police and one from the district attorney's office supposedly called Dr. Osborne into a meeting, and they questioned his findings. Apparently, they told Osborne that Sam had broken the door latch and that Phil, the apartment security guard, had, quote, witnessed it. And that is strange, because if you've been paying attention to this episode, that's not the way that the events unfolded. According to Phil, Phil told Sam that he couldn't leave the lobby that night. No one knows who started this rumor that Phil was actually there at the door when. When it was kicked down. There weren't security cameras in the upper hallways to confirm one way or another. And Phil wasn't questioned about it until years later, where he denied ever going upstairs with Sam. But back In March of 2011, the police were standing firm that Phil was in that hallway and saw the door be kicked down.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

It's really interesting, especially with Phil denying it. I never went upstairs. I didn't. I didn't see him kick the door down. It's interesting, too, because the footage we have, the camera angles, like, we'll include some pictures of, like, screen grabs from the security footage. You don't see the desk where Phil was sitting at in the pictures we have. It doesn't seem like you're able to even corroborate that he was at the desk the whole time.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

But you can see the elevator.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

You can see the elevator.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

They were going up and down to Sam's floor.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

So it seems like it should have been verifiable that he never went up during that time with Sam.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

With Sam. And yet the police are still just saying that whatever that's how it went down. And so shortly after that, on April 4, 2011, Osborne released a revised autopsy after these conversations with the police. And in this autopsy, Ellen's cause of death was changed back to suicide. It emphasized also that the apartment was locked from the inside and that there were no signs of a struggle. So it was clearly emphasizing the points that the police had been making to.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Them, which, like, depending on where you stand on this and what your thought is at this point in time, this could be a botched mark for you. Right, right. Was this really the medical examiner's decision or were they pressured to change their opinion? Yeah, because.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

And how much of the case also hinges on him kicking down the door?

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Because all of it.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

I mean, did he leave and, like, did they get in a fight? And he left and slammed the door and that's what locked it. Was someone else in the apartment and attacked her, and when they were leaving, it slammed and locked it. Was it not locked to begin with? And so Sam was actually able to just get in and out of the apartment and he lied about having to kick the door down.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Yeah. Did you take a hammer and hit that little latch, hook, bolt, whatever you want to call it?

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Like, did you use the hammer to like, rip the two screws out? Because four screws in that. Two are pulled out.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Not all four.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Was it like broken from before? And he. I guess he would have told the police. This was definitely locked from the inside. No one else could have been in there. She must have done this to herself. Right. If this is some sort of COVID up, I guess, on his end, I.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Mean, I'd be curious if you could reenact it. Like, you know, the building manager is saying, I could probably cause this to happen again. Or was the time she accidentally locked that bolt herself a fluke? Was it an accident? It's not recreatable. Like, I'd be very curious.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

No, same. But we'll never get our answers. In April of 2011, Ellen's case was closed. But after officials changed her cause of death from homicide back to suicide, her parents were convinced that there was more to this story. Sometime in 2012, they demanded that all the case files, all the autopsy reports, the crime scene photos, everything get released to them. They hired independent experts to review everything. And one of the first people they reached out to was Dr. Cyril Wecht, a retired forensic pathologist, coroner and medical examiner. And also Dr. Wayne Ross, who is another forensic pathologist. Ross concluded that the scene was, quote, indicative of homicide. And when it came to Ellen's Bruises. He said, quote, the patterns were consistent with a repeated beating. Ross also wrote, quote, there was evidence of strangulation. He then enlisted the help of a crime scene reconstructionist named Detective Scott Eelman, who examined the photographs of Ellen's body, and he noticed something glaring about them.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Yeah. Eelman looked specifically at the direction of blood flow on Ellen's body. His report said, quote, the bloodstains on Ellen's face are inconsistent with the position in which she was found, meaning that her body was likely moved. Which is clue number six in this. According to Ehlman, blood on Ellen's forehead flowed diagonally across her forehead and stopped at her eyebrow instead of flowing down her forehead. Eelman saw similar inconsistencies around Ellen's eyes and cheekbones. In reality, there were kind of like multiple reasons this could have occurred. Perhaps Ellen moved her own body while she was inflicting these injuries. Maybe the killer had moved her or the blood shifted when Sam moved her to try and perform cpr. But that picture of her slumped against the cabinets is. It is out there. I've seen it. And it doesn't look like he moved her flat to perform CPR at all. Like, I don't think it was attempted because on the phone, the 911 call, the 911 operator even says, like, you can't really perform CPR if there's a knife in her chest.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Well, also. Okay, so I guess if the blood is flowing diagonally across her forehead, she was probably laying on her side and then someone propped her up.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

That is kind of what's being deduced.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

That's kind of what I would assume.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

So if she's upright, there's a massive wound on her scalp.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

And she slumped.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

It would flow down, flowing straight down. So, yeah, I guess the theory then becomes that Sam moved her upright to do cpr. But, yeah, that would be the only way that would work.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

I know. And I will say, seeing the pictures of the bruising that he now is mentioning as evidence of strangulation, like, these are very severe bruises on her neck. So again, like, I don't know, it's. It's interesting.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

So Eelman's report did prove one important thing. The police and medical examiners reports clearly missed evidence, which motivated Josh and Sandy Greenberg even more. They petitioned the Philadelphia Medical Examiner, Police department and District Attorney's office to reopen Ellen's case and re examine all of the evidence. And as we know, there's not enough evidence. There's not enough evidence.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

But I would have loved to have known Prince on the knife.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Exactly. Just what they can look into. In January of 2018, Philadelphia District Attorney Larry Krasner referred the case to the Pennsylvania State Attorney General's office. At the time, the AG was Josh Shapiro, who would later go on to become governor. Shapiro's office evaluated the case, but allegedly sat on it for four years without making any decision. But the Greenbergs didn't want to just sit and wait. So in 2019, they had another expert named Dr. Wayne Ross, who they had already been working with, reconstruct Ellen's knife wounds using 3D imaging. This is maybe some of the stuff that you've seen online. I know these images have gone pretty viral. This allowed them to see exactly how Ellen was stabbed, and it led to another pretty big breakthrough in the case.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

For years, police and medical examiners reports said that Ellen had stabbed herself 20 times. And there was no proof to really refute this until Dr. Ross's report came out. It revealed that the stab wounds to Ellen's head and spinal cord either killed her, paralyzed her, or left her with limited strength.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

So it did, like, confirm the thing that you had.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

It confirmed.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

It thought about earlier.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

If you look at it, the earlier autopsy reports do mention the location of C2. So now that this is coming out, it's like, no, no, no. This would have either killed her paralyzed or, like, limited strength. And, like, C2 is really severe. I worked with a couple different C2 paralyzed patients, and, like, they're very limited in movement. Which brings us to our seventh clue. Ellen was stabbed again after she died. To explain this, we're kind of going to backtrack a little bit to the crime scene. Ellen was found with a knife buried in her chest, making that her final wound. But what these reports were now showing was that one of the other wounds to her spinal column or back of the head likely killed her first or again, would have left her so paralyzed. How do you then have the strength?

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

She wouldn't have been able to stab your chest. Yeah.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

And based on where the knife was located and found, it wasn't like she was stabbed in the chest and then went there. Like, it. It really hounded home that that chest wound was the final one, the last one. And so this report is really claiming it would be nearly impossible for her to even hold a knife, let alone stab herself in the chest. Which, again, goes back to the possibility of homicide.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Sandy and Josh Greenberg resubmitted these findings to the medical examiner's office, and they prayed for a reinvestigation, but there was still no progress. So In October of 2019, the Greenbergs filed a civil lawsuit against the city of Philadelphia, the medical Examiner's office, and one directly against Dr. Marlon Osborne. In October of 2021, a judge ruled that the trials could move forward. But it wasn't until February of 2025 where the city of Philadelphia finally settled with the Greenbergs agreeing to pay $650,000 and to a new investigation from the Medical examiner's office. Around the same time, the lawsuit against Dr. Osborne was also settled. He signed a document stating, quote, it is my professional opinion Ellen's manner of death should be designated as something other than suicide. These were huge findings for the Greenberg, even though the city dragged their feet on paying the Greenbergs and reopening the investigation. But then In September of 2025, Hulu released a docu series called Death in Apartment 603, what happened to Ellen Greenberg? And it created a lot of public outrage about how this case was handled. So then the following month, the city of Philadelphia finally began looking into the case again. There's a little bit of a fire lit under them. In October of that year, the Philadelphia medical Examiner's office released a new report. At this point, 14 years had passed since Ellen's death and they had a new chief medical examiner. But the 32 page report backed up the previous decision, stating that Ellen's injuries were, quote, not inconsistent with self infliction. A double negative way of saying that this was a suicide. And the Greenberg's legal team called the report, quote, deeply flawed and shameful.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

I mean, there are a lot of threads and websites dedicated to Ellen's investigation, but generally people fall into three categories. One, that Ellen tragically did die from suicide in an unconventional way. In group number two, others think that it could have been a reaction from the medications that she was prescribed. And then group number three, like someone was responsible for this. Online people really do point to Sam. I mean, he was the only other one involved.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Yeah, I don't really see a lot of people going to like, oh, a stranger, a stranger came into the apartment and attacked her.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

I don't know, I don't know where I fall. It's just, it's so hard given how botched this case was by eliminating any potential evidence, to have a clear answer, even for Sam. Like, Sam now lives with this stain kind of over his head.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Oh, he'll always, yeah, forever.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

I mean, there's an article from people kind of talking about where is Sam now? And they interview one of his colleagues that like, people are kind of scared to Work with him. Wow. Like it still hangs with him. So, you know, if you were free of anything, like why race to clean it up? Why take the computers and cell phones if you know you are innocent? Like, why wouldn't you want it thoroughly investigated to officially clear your name?

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

What are the pieces that you hang you get hung up on the most?

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Yeah, I kind of went down a rabbit hole looking at suicide by stabbing. And I pulled up a lot of different articles and like reviews of case studies and all these things. And like one thing I found really interesting is like it's 20 stab wounds but like some of them are like not very deep. They're almost like light like scratch looking injuries. And so they call this like hesitation wounds. And this is very common to see these like tentative injuries in self stabbing. Almost like, like not like they weren't committing to the full force. And there were a lot of these noted on Ellen's autopsy. So I think that really throws me.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Like she was testing.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Yeah, yeah.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Because I think something that I've seen online is it would. It is strange that some of the wounds are so shallow on the back of her head. The person who did it would have been like basically pin pricking her.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Yeah.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Before they really went for it.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

I know it's.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Which is a strange way to attack someone with a knife.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

It's really tough. But like also before recording this episode, I was in like the studio kitchen over here and I'm like using a beef jerky stick to be like, is it possible to reach behind you and, and do this that many times? And again, I think, you know, there's so many different experts giving their reports.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Yeah.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

They all kind of contradict. I don't trust Osborne's report given the pressure and the change. And now the statement afterwards after settling. So I don't know whose report to trust, but I think the last report basically saying like, no, no, no. Those neck wounds would have killed her, paralyzed her or left her with such limited strength. The chest wounds were impossible. Like you get that report and you're like, how is this anything but a homicide?

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

How? How? Right, like how are the mechanics? I think for me, the bruising too. The bruising like doesn't really add up at all. Like, why was there so much bruising on her body?

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

I know, it is so odd. And I, I really like commend her family for trying so hard to get answers.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

And her family's really not giving up.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

No. And like they want this case to continue to be talked about, to raise awareness, to put pressure and it. It's just so, you know, tragic that they are still left without answers, like, real, true answers, because of how it was handled. Yes, there is one last theory that comes up quite a bit, but a lot of people just kind of find it, like, unfounded. And it's the fact that between 4pm and 6:10pm an amateur investigator said she noticed a suspicious man in the building between those times. And this was coming after watching hours of the surveillance footage, which does coincide with the time Ellen would have been killed. They said that the man was nervously bouncing around before heading upstairs when Ellen's fiance, Sam was at the gym. And then the man returned downstairs. Like, I've watched the security tape videos, like, clips here and there. And, like, there is one person that, like, as Sam's going into the elevator, like, this person's coming out. But it is interesting, like, how this could have been verified, like, talking to residents. Like, does anyone recognize this person? Is this someone's friend? Like, you don't know if he's suspecting suspicious. Like, you. Like an amateur sleuth coming in from online.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Yeah, right, right.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Like, how do you know everyone in the building?

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

No, exactly. It could have just been someone who lived there.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

Yeah. It is interesting that, like, there's really no mention in this case, too, about, like, neighbors being interviewed, like, potentially hearing a fight, hearing a struggle. Like, you know, they mentioned hearing him yelling at the door, but again, didn't hear the door break down.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Yes. Right.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

So there's just a lot of holes in this one.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

We can get into a little bit of the advocacy from this case. Now, none of the loose ends or theories really provides a smoking gun, and it leaves a lot of people wondering what really happened that night. The Greenbergs say that they've spent 700,000 of their own dollars investigating Ellen's death and pursuing justice for her. And remember, they won a settlement for, like, $650,000. So maybe that covered some of it. But, like, they're investing so much of their money into this. If you would like to learn more about their work and see how you can help, you can check out justice for EllenGreenberg.com in addition to advocating for Ellen Greenberg, we can all take action and raise awareness about both mental health and domestic violence. If you or someone you love is in crisis, you can call or text 988, the suicide and crisis Lifeline for free confidential support at any time. And if you're experiencing domestic violence, contact the National Domestic violence hotline at 800-799-safe s a f e Trained advocates are available 24 7. Together we can break the silence and the stigma and stand up for compassion and truth. And with that, we can go into our Missing Person of the Week.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

This week we are highlighting the case of Sherry Corrigal. Sherry was last seen in downtown Nanaimo the evening of September 11, 2023. She is about 5290 pounds and at that time was really struggling with addiction. She has not been seen, used any bank cards, social media, nothing. And Nanaimo is a city and a ferry port of the east coast of Vancouver island in British Columbia, Canada. She has blue eyes, red brown hair. Her date of birth is 5:14, 2001. At the time of her disappearance, she was 22. Sheri also has a moon tattoo on her right forearm, a spider tattoo on her upper back, and Jacob slash sunflower tattoo on her right shoulder. Last known location was a parking lot on Franklin street in Nanaimo, British Columbia. If you have any information about Sherry's whereabouts, please contact the Nanaimo RCMP at 250-754-2345. And that is all we have on this episode. I know you guys are going to have a lot of thoughts. I know now a lot of comments.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

Turn it over to you guys. I want to hear all of the thoughts and the theories. If there's anything that we missed or just like any, if you think there's a smoking gun in this, something that's like very obvious to you that we didn't call out, please let us know. More b botched marks for the botch board, anything.

[Morgan Absher (Internet Sleuth, Clues Podcast)]

I know I would. Yeah, if we missed anything, please let us know. I mean, this is, this is a really tough case and because of the way it was botched, don't have a lot of evidence. So it is a lot of speculation and it's a really, really sad, tough one. So please comment at Crime House. We really value your support. So again, remember to rate, review and follow, subscribe. Subscribe to Clues to help others discover our show.

[Kayla Moore (Clues Podcast Host)]

We will see you next week with another episode. Bye, guys.

[Dr. Tristan Ingalls (Forensic Psychologist)]

Bye.

[Podcast Host (Crime House Intro)]

What drives a person to murder? Find out from a licensed forensic psychologist on serial killers and murderous Minds. A Crime House original podcast. New episodes drop every Monday and Thursday. Follow wherever you get your podcasts.