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- [00:02]
Vanessa Richardson
Hi listeners, it's Vanessa Richardson. Real quick, before today's episode, I want to tell you about another show from Crime House that I know you'll love. America's Most Infamous Crimes. Hosted by Katie Ring. Each week, Katie takes on one of the most notorious criminal cases in American history. Serial killers who terrorized cities, unsolved mysteries that keep detectives up at night, and investigations that change the way we think about justice. Listen to and follow America's Most Infamous crimes Tuesday through Thursday on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
- [00:48]
Carter Roy
This is crime house. When something awful happens, we want someone to blame. We expect a clear villain and a clear victim. But the reality is rarely that simple because sometimes it comes down to hundreds of small decisions that eventually end in tragedy. And it's nearly impossible to say who's really at fault. In March of 1995, this situation played out in real time. Three days after Scott Amador and Jonathan Schmitz appeared on the Jenny Jones show, one of them was dead. In the aftermath, one question was debated in courtrooms and living rooms across the country. Was the shooter the only one responsible for what happened? Or did the show that put him on a national stage carry some of the blame too? People's lives are like a story. There's a beginning, a middle and an end. But you don't always know which part you're on. Sometimes the final chapter arrives far too soon and we don't always get to know the real ending. I'm Carter Roy and this is True Crime Stories, the Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. New episodes come out every Tuesday, Thursday and Friday, with Friday's episodes covering the cases that deserve a deeper look. And remember, those Friday episodes are also on YouTube with full video. Just search for Murder True Crime Stories and be sure to like and subscribe. Thank you for being part of the Crime House community. Please rate, review and follow the show and for ad free access to every episode. Subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts. This is the second of two episodes on the murder of 32 year old Scott Amador in Michigan in 1995. Last time I introduced you to Scott and explained how he ended up as a guest on the Jenny Jones Show. During the taping, Scott confessed to having a crush on a mutual friend, 24 year old Jonathan Schmitz. Although Jonathan knew the segment was about secret crushes, he had no idea that Scott was the one who was going to admit his feelings. Today I'll walk you through what happened after the taping. It was immediately clear that Jonathan didn't feel the same way, but no one knew just how upset he was until three days later when he went out and bought a gun. What happened next shattered the Amador family and landed the Jenny Jones show in some very hot water. All that and more coming up.
- [04:03]
Vanessa Richardson
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- [05:32]
Carter Roy
On March 6, 1995, three Michigan residents traveled to Chicago for a taping of the Jenny Jones Show. It all started a couple weeks ago when the show announced they were looking for guests who were willing to reveal their secret same sex Crush on national TV. 32 year old Scott Amador had answered that call. Scott was openly gay, outgoing and by all accounts comfortable with who he was. And while being on TV was definitely a selling point for him, it seemed like Scott wanted more than that. He was genuinely hopeful that this strange, risky experiment could turn into something real. About a month earlier, Scott had met 24 year old Jonathan Schmitz through their mutual friend, 32 year old Donna Riley. Scott was immediately interested in John. When he told Donna about it, she encouraged Scott to pursue him. John was quieter and more reserved than Scott. He also had a complicated relationship with his family and cared deeply about how others perceived him. Although John told Donna, he was straight. She had her suspicions. She knew his family had questioned his sexuality before. Either way, she thought Scott might be good for him. So when Scott told her that the Jenny Jones show had called him back and wanted him and his crush on an episode, Donna was stoked. She thought it was exciting, romantic even. She agreed to go to Chicago for the taping and be part of the reveal. Meanwhile, John was kept in the dark. The only thing he was told was that he would be meeting a secret admirer. Technically, it could be a man or a woman, but according to John, an employee of the Jenny Jones show had assured him it was the latter. Still, John suspected Donna and Scott might be involved somehow. But when he asked them, they insisted they weren't. John believed them enough to get on the plane. By the time John arrived in Chicago, he had no idea what was waiting for him on that stage. And when he walked out in front of the studio audience on March 6, he quickly realized that his friends had lied to him. As the taping went on, things only got worse. John sat there while the host, Jenny Jones, played some clips they'd recorded before he got on stage. Those videos showed Scott talking openly about John's body, how he was attracted to John, and the fantasies he'd had. All of it was played for laughs, framed as entertainment. John didn't want to be cruel. He didn't want to humiliate Scott the way he himself was being humiliated. And he definitely didn't want to cause a scene that would be caught on tape for all eternity. So he smiled and laughed, nodding along. But it was clear he was uncomfortable. His smile never quite reached his eyes, and you have to imagine he was counting down the seconds until it was all over. He had come to Chicago thinking he was about to meet the woman of his dreams. Instead, he felt blindsided, set up by two people he trusted. But if John was feeling angry with Scott and Donna, he kept it to himself. After the taping wrapped, the show put all three of them on the same flight back to Michigan. Reportedly, John talked to the stranger sitting next to him. He described his day as bizarre, but he said what weighed on him most wasn't the studio audience. It was how his family back home would react. Even though John insisted he wasn't gay, his family still questioned him. And he knew his father in particular, would be angry about the episode. But John had no control over how the show would be edited, when it would air, or how it would frame him. The more he thought about it, the darker his emotions became. Soon, confusion turned into resentment and shame turned into anger. And yet, when the plane landed, John offered to drive Scott and Donna home from the airport. They joked. As they walked through the parking lot, Scott spotted a small construction light, one of those flashing orange ones, and started teasing John with it. Maybe John could use it as his new blinker since the one in his car wasn't working. Okay, so maybe you had to be there to get the joke. But the point was, things seemed light and easy between the friends all. Once they were back in their hometown of Lake Orion, the three of them decided to stop for a drink at a bar called Brewski's. The waitress who served them said nothing seemed off. John was polite and friendly. If he was upset, he certainly wasn't showing it. After Brewski's, they all went back to Donna's apartment to keep hanging out. According to John, he stayed until around 2am then left by himself. Donna backed that story up, but according to one of Scott's other friends who heard about the evening later, that wasn't the whole story. The friend said that Scott told him he and John actually slept together that night. We have no way of knowing whether that was true or not. It could have been some misunderstanding, or maybe Scott was exaggerating. What mattered was that Scott apparently claimed it had happened, and if that got back to John or John's family, the results could be disastrous.
- [12:17]
Movie Trailer Voice
Focus Features in Blumhouse present Obsession When
- [12:20]
Carter Roy
I have a crush on a guy no one knows, be careful. I wish Nikki love me more than anyone in the entire world.
- [12:27]
Movie Trailer Voice
Who you wish for obsession is 96% fresh on rotten Tomatoes.
- [12:32]
Vanessa Richardson
I love you so so so so much.
- [12:35]
Movie Trailer Voice
It's blood soaked nightmare fuel Brookhon's bulge put on her. You have been warned. Obsession Rated R. Under 17 on a minute without parent only theaters May 15 with special engagements in Dolby.
- [12:48]
Vanessa Richardson
What they did to your family. You're lucky to make it out alive.
- [12:52]
Movie Trailer Voice
Streaming on Peacock.
- [12:54]
Vanessa Richardson
These men are going to come after me. Taking them out. It's my only chance.
- [12:58]
Movie Trailer Voice
Put a bullet in her head. From the co creator of Ozark.
- [13:02]
Vanessa Richardson
Looks like a family was running drugs execution style killing. It's where for the keys. Any leads on who they might have been running for? The cartel killed my family. I'm going to kill them. All of them.
- [13:13]
Movie Trailer Voice
MIA streaming now only on Peacock.
- [13:20]
Carter Roy
On March 6, 1995 the Jenny Jones show taped an episode titled Secret Crushes on people of the same sex. Afterward, 32 year old Scott Amador, 24 year old Jonathan Schmitz and their mutual friend 32 year old Donna Riley all returned home to Michigan. The three friends spent that night hanging out together. They talked and drank and joking around like nothing humiliating had just happened to John earlier that day. After that, they moved on with their lives. It seemed like everything was going back to the way it had been before. That lasted three days. On the night of March 8, John stayed over at a female friend's house. According to later accounts, the relationship was platonic. John had been upset, unsettled by everything that had happened on the Jenny Jones show, and he vented to her. The next morning, March 9, John returned to his apartment around 10am that's when he noticed something on his doorstep. It was a handwritten note. No name or signature, just a few scribbled lines. Next to it was the flashing orange construction light Scott had swiped from the airport three days earlier. The note was suggestive. It included a comment about needing a special tool to turn off the light. On its own, it might not seem like much. It could have just been a joke, a harmless flirtation, maybe an attempt to break any tension. But John didn't see it that way. He immediately knew who it was from. And he didn't read it as playful. To him, it felt like Scott was refusing to let things die down, like he was testing John to see how long it took for him to break. In John's mind, the situation wasn't just about how embarrassed he felt. It was about how quickly things had spun out of his control. More importantly, it was about whether that moment on the Jenny Jones show was going to follow him for the rest of his life. And standing there in the hallway of his apartment building, holding that note, John made a decision. He wasn't going to let this go any further. John got in his car and drove straight to the bank. He withdrew $300 in cash, which would be worth more than double that today. After that, he went to Tom's Hardware, where he bought five rounds of ammo. From there, he drove to Gary's Guns, a firearm store located in a nearby strip mall. He used the rest of his money to pay for a 12 gauge shotgun. The purchase itself was uneventful. John chatted with one of the shop's owners, explaining that he was buying the gun because he was going hunting with his father. The entire time, John appeared calm and nonchalant. Nothing about the interaction raised any alarms for staff members. Gun laws in Michigan at the time made it possible to purchase a long gun, like a shotgun, quickly, without a mandatory waiting period. There was no required cooling off time. So within about an Hour of finding the note. John legally owned a shotgun and the ammo to go with it. He drove back to his apartment complex and parked his car. He sat there, assembled the gun and loaded it. Then he spent a few minutes thinking about what he was going to do next. Those moments mattered. They showed that John wasn't in a rage. He had moved quickly, yes, but he still paused to think. He gave himself time to change his mind. Instead, he started the car and drove towards Scott's home. Just before 11am, about an hour after he found the note on his doorstep, John pulled onto Bluebird Lane. Scott lived there in a mobile home. John parked outside, leaving the car running. He didn't take the gun with him at first. He walked up to the door empty handed and knocked. Scott answered. Scott's roommate Gary Brady was inside somewhere. Though it's unclear if John knew that John didn't beat around the bush. He asked Scott whether he had written the note. Sources differ on how Scott responded. Some say he denied it. Others say he admitted to it right away. Some people think he didn't say anything at all. That he just smiled in a way that John interpreted as confirmation. Either way, John already believed he knew the answer. This was just a formality. He told Scott he'd left his car running and needed to turn it off. He'd be right back. He headed to the car where the loaded shotgun waited. John walked back toward the mobile home with the gun in his hand. Scott saw him and tried to shut the door. But John forced his way inside, pushing the door open with the barrel of the gun. Scott yelled to his roommate for help, warning him that John had a weapon. Then, in a last ditch effort to protect himself, Scott grabbed a wicker chair and held it up in front of his chest like a shield. It didn't help. John fired once, hitting Scott in the chest. As Scott collapsed to the floor, John fired again, hitting Scott a second time. And just like that, it was all over. 32 year old Scott Amador was dead. After firing the two shots, John got back in his car and drove away. About 15 minutes later, he pulled into a gas station and found a phone booth. He called 911 and reported his own crime, confessing immediately to having killed Scott. The operator asked why he had done it. Using much stronger language than we can repeat here. John said he'd been embarrassed on national tv. None of this would have happened if it weren't for the Jenny Jones show. And with that phone call, the story immediately shifted from a shocking act of violence to a legal and cultural reckoning.
- [21:01]
Vanessa Richardson
Hi listeners, it's Vanessa Richardson. I wanted to take a brief moment to tell you about another show from Crime House that I know you'll love. America's Most Infamous Crimes. Hosted by Katie Ring. Each week, Katie takes on a notorious crime, whether unfolding now or etched into American history, revealing not just what happened, but how it forever changed our society. Serial killers who terrorized cities, unsolved mysteries that keep detectives up at night, and investigations that change the way we think about justice. Each case unfolds across multiple episodes released every Tuesday through Thursday, from the first sign that something was wrong to the moment the truth came out or didn't. These are the stories behind the headlines. Listen to and follow America's Most Infamous Crimes Tuesday through Thursday on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
- [22:05]
Carter Roy
After 24 year old Jonathan Schmitz confessed to shooting 32 year old Scott Amador, there was no doubt about what had happened or who had done it. On March 9, 1995, the same day of the shooting, John was arrested and charged with first degree murder. Given the severity of the charge, he he was held without bail while he waited for a preliminary hearing scheduled for April. Right away, both the Schmitz family and the Amador family came to the same conclusion. The Jenny Jones show was largely responsible for what had happened. John's father, Alan Schmitz, called the talk show rotten and publicly blamed production for putting his son in a situation he believed never should have happened in the first place. John's grandfather went even further, saying that Jenny Jones had essentially been the trigger man in Scott's murder. Scott's family echoed that sentiment. His brother Frank said the murder never would have happened if the show hadn't used deeply personal revelations as entertainment. Four days after Scott's murder, his mom, Patricia Graves, spoke out too. She said that there'd been complete silence from the people who put her son on that stage. No one from the show had reached out to express any kind of sympathy. As always, they were more concerned about protecting their image than protecting their guests. Behind the scenes of the Jenny Jones show, producers quietly pulled the episode from the lineup. It would not air as planned in May. It took another week for Jenny Jones to even address Scott's murder. On March 15, six days after Scott was killed, Jones addressed the tragedy publicly for the first time. She recorded a statement that aired on her show expressing sympathy for Scott's family. While making one point unmistakably clear. She believed the responsibility for what had happened rested entirely with Jonathan Schmitz in other interviews around that time, Jones described herself as devastated by the news. But she was firm that her show had done nothing wrong. And she insisted that John had not been misled. She said he knew well in advance that his admirer could be either a man or a woman. So despite what people were saying, it wasn't an ambush show. She emphasized that producers had explained the premise multiple times before John was booked, after he arrived in Chicago, and again before taping. She maintained there was documentation to back it up and that John had even been asked how he would react if the admirer turned out to be a man. Once Jones delivered her statement, the show moved on. It was back to the regularly scheduled programming. Next up, an episode about desperate women who wanted to get married. Unfortunately for Jones, the criticism didn't fade after her statement. If anything, it only got more intense. Scott's family realized early on that this case was going to get a ton of media attention. They wanted a lawyer who understood spectacle and knew how to use it to their advantage. That's when they called Jeffrey Figar. Figar was already a well known attorney. He was loud, combative and deeply comfortable in front of cameras. According to Scott's brother, when he called Figar's office, the attorney answered the phone himself and said, quote, I wondered when you were going to call me. And it was a good thing the Amadors did call, because the trial that followed became exactly the media circus they feared it might be. News outlets covered every development. Court TV aired the proceedings gavel to gavel. Every witness, every argument, every emotional moment. Ratings surged and Court TV was raking in money. But here's the thing. Court TV was owned by Warner Brothers, which also owned the Jenny Jones Show. Later, the Amador family would sue Warner Brothers in civil court. Those proceedings would also air on Court tv. It was yet another example of how the network was profiting from one family's tragedy. But for now, all eyes were on John's criminal trial, which started in late 1996. In their opening arguments, his defense didn't deny that he had killed Scott. Instead, they focused on why. They presented a portrait of a young man struggling with serious mental and physical health issues. Bipolar disorder, an autoimmune condition known as graves disease, and suicidal thoughts. They said his upbringing had been harsh and often humiliating, pointing to times when his father had used physical punishments, like the time his dad once spanked John with a belt in front of his sixth grade class. Their main argument was something they referred to as the gay panic defense. John's attorneys claimed that the combination of mental illness and public humiliation had pushed him past a breaking point. Many gay rights advocates condemned the defense, arguing that it framed LGBTQ identity as something inherently threatening. They said it excused violence as a reasonable response to being perceived as gay. They argued that maybe the Jenny Jones show was manipulative. Gotcha TV. But that didn't excuse Jon's actions. In October of 1996, 50 year old Jenny Jones herself took the stand. She testified that she had very little involvement in planning individual episodes, including this one. She described the concept of secret crushes, same sex or otherwise, as playful and light hearted. In her view, there was nothing predatory or deceptive about the format. Jones also rejected the idea that the episode qualified as ambush television. She pointed out that the show had covered similar themes before, including episodes focused on same sex crushes. She even acknowledged that she personally enjoyed those topics, seeing them as a way to include gay people in daytime television. Observers noted that Jones looked subdued on the stand. This wasn't the high energy host audiences were used to seeing. She seemed serious, tired, and at times defensive. Over the course of two hours, the Amador's lawyer, Jeffrey Figar, pressed her. He asked whether shows like hers had any obligation to consider the real world consequences of what what they aired. Jones said no. Figar kept making the case for yes. On November 13, 1996, after about one day of deliberations, the jury reached a verdict. 26 year old Jonathan Schmitz was found guilty of second degree murder. The jury concluded that while John was responsible for Scott's death, the evidence didn't support the level of premeditation required for a first degree conviction under Michigan law. As a result, John was given 25 to 50 years in prison instead of a life sentence. But that wasn't the end of the story. John's conviction was later overturned on appeal due to errors in jury selection. By that point, he had already served two years behind bars. Even so, he remained incarcerated while prosecutors prepared for a retrial. In August of 1999, a new jury heard the case. This time they reached the same conclusion. John was convicted again of second degree murder and the original sentence was reinstated. Meanwhile, the Amador family had pursued a civil lawsuit against the Jenny Jones Show, Warner Brothers and other parties involved in the production. They argued that the show had acted negligently and that negligence had played a role in Scott's death. Initially, they won. A jury awarded the family $25 million in damages as a part of the trial. The unaired episode, the one Scott never lived to see, broadcast was shown publicly for the first time through Court TV's coverage. It clearly showed the role Jones and her producers had played in the segment. But the victory didn't last for the Amadors. Eventually, the verdict was overturned on appeal. Higher courts ruled that while the show's actions could be criticized, they were protected under the First Amendment. The Michigan Supreme Court declined to hear the family's appeal. So did the U.S. supreme Court. The Amadors never got their money. After the civil case came to a close, legal scholars who had nothing to do with the case weighed in. Alan Dershowitz, who was famous for his role in the O.J. simpson trial, argued that while the Constitution shielded the program from legal consequences, it didn't protect it from moral responsibility. Jennie Jones, for her part, rarely spoke about the case in the years that followed. But when she did, her position never changed. In 1999, she repeated her belief that this was not a crime committed by a television show. It was a crime committed by Jonathan Schmitz. Her show continued until 2003, when it finally went off the air. Over time, shows like hers had lost their appeal. Some limped along as ratings dropped. Others, like Jerry Springer, became cultural punchlines. And in the background of it all was Scott Amador's murder. Although the Jenny Jones show wasn't found liable, other networks had to assess whether they were willing to take the same kind of risks. Some decided it was worth it, but in the end, it didn't really matter. The public was already starting to question the ethics of the genre, and eventually, the format itself seemed to fall out of favor. In August of 2017, after serving 22 years in prison, Jonathan Schmitz was granted parole. He was 47 years old. An attorney for the Amador family acknowledged that John had served nearly his full sentence, which seemed appropriate. And the real sticking point was that the Jenny Jones show never suffered any consequences, even though the Amadors continued to believe the producers were equally responsible for Scott's death. Since his release, John has stayed out of the public eye. But his story hasn't faded. And nearly 30 years after Scott was killed, we're still asking the same question. Jonathan Schmitz pulled the trigger. That's not up for debate. But did his actions that day begin when he bought the gun or when Jenny Jones booked him? The answer depends on where you draw the line between entertainment and accountability. But one thing is clear. Once that line is crossed, it's very hard to draw it again. Thanks so much for listening. I'm Carter Roy, and this is True Crime Stories. Come back next time for the story of a new murder and all the people it affected. True Crime Stories is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. Here at Crime House, we want to thank each and every one of you for your support. If you like what you heard today, reach out on social media, rimehouse on TikTok and Instagram. Don't forget to rate, review and follow Murder True Crime Stories wherever you get your podcasts. Your feedback truly makes a difference. And to enhance your Murder True Crime Stories listening experience, subscribe to Crime House plus on Apple Podcasts. You'll get every episode ad free. We'll be back on Friday. True Crime Stories is hosted by me, Carter Roy and is a Crime House original powered by Pave Studios. This episode was brought to life by the Murder True Crime Stories team. Max Cutler, Ron Shapiro, Alex Benidon, Natalie Pertzofsky, Sarah Camp, Alex Burns, Nicolette Tavolaro, Kaylee Pine and Russell Nash. Thank you for listening.
- [37:08]
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- [37:39]
Vanessa Richardson
thanks for listening to today's episode. Not sure what to listen to next? Check out America's Most Infamous Crimes, hosted by Katie Ring. From serial killers to unsolved mysteries and game changing investigations, each week Katie takes on a notorious criminal case in American history. Listen to and follow America's Most Infamous Crimes now. Wherever you listen to podcasts.