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School Business Insider
From Mustard Seeds to Milestones: Trust, Leadership, and Budgeting in Texas Schools
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- [00:02]
John Brucato
You're listening to ASBO International's School Business Insider. I'm your host, John Brucato. Each week on School Business Insider, I sit down with school business officials and industry experts from around the world to share their stories and explore the topics that matter most to you. Find out what it means to be a school business official and get your insider pass on all things school business. Hi, everyone, and welcome back. In today's episode, we head south to Texas for a conversation with two school business leaders who are navigating change in challenging times. Dr. Tracy Ginsburg, executive Director of Tasbo, and Heather Wilson, Tasbo Board President. Heather has just stepped into a new role at a new district, and together we explore how to build trust and culture from day one, especially in what they both describe as a deficit world. We also talk about the value of professional development, the importance of peer Networks, and what SBOs can expect at this year's ASBO International Annual Conference and Expo in Fort Worth, Texas. Tracy and Heather, welcome to School Business Insider. Happy to have both of you.
- [01:17]
Tracy Ginsburg
Thank you so much. So good to see you.
- [01:19]
John Brucato
So good to see you. And right on the tail of our last episode of the AEDG affiliate webinar. So now you're on the other side. Instead of watching me talk about it, you're actually participating. So I'm actually really excited to have you on.
- [01:32]
Tracy Ginsburg
We're excited. And Heather, my running buddy here, is just the absolute best. And so I'm excited to get to know Heather as well.
- [01:42]
John Brucato
Awesome. So, perfect entry point into the conversation. So, Heather, why don't you, um, tell us a little bit about your role, your new role that you stepped into and congratulations. Um, can you tell us a little bit about what it's like starting in a new district and, you know, now that you're serving, what drew you to this opportunity?
- [02:00]
Heather Wilson
No. So, yes, I took a new job in College Station ISD about a year ago, and as you probably are aware, Texas is a huge state, so I actually moved eight hours within Texas to take a new job. So I had been with Canyon ISD for over 18 years, or about 18 years. So this was a big adjustment for me making a move this late in my career. So. But College Station is actually really close to where I grew up, and it's close to where both of my husband and my families are. And so as our youngest kid headed off to college, we felt it was time to were going to be an empty nesters. And so we thought we'd make that move. So we moved down to What I call, I'm sorry, God's country. And that's when Texas A and M is here. And we thought, you know, that's supposed. We graduated from college and we thought, what better time to move back to God's country so we can watch all the football, basketball, everything we could possibly want to watch. And so in our spare time, now that we have some.
- [03:00]
John Brucato
That's great. So as soon as you said eight hours, I think my, my jaw dropped. That's a, That's a big move, but sounds like it's a little bit closer to some familiarities. How, how is the move and how, how has it been going so far?
- [03:13]
Heather Wilson
The move is crazy. It's going wonderfully well. It's kind of funny though, because, you know, Texas is huge. And so where I was, we actually got snow often it got cold overnight. Nice Texas, west Texas wind because say.
- [03:28]
John Brucato
Not what I think of when it comes to.
- [03:29]
Heather Wilson
Then I move to College Station where no snow most of the time and extremely hot and very humid. So it's very different climate, but it's a wonderful place. But, but both of them, both of them are in Texas. It's just, you know, night and day. Yeah, it's a massive kind of mountains to the ocean.
- [03:46]
Tracy Ginsburg
So I've been helping her with gardening tips.
- [03:48]
Heather Wilson
Oh, that's true.
- [03:50]
John Brucato
Perfect. Some. Some warm weather gardening tips. So. So, Heather, when you think back to when you had first started, what, what was kind of your mindset? I mean, put the move aside. That's a huge Herculean effort. But what was kind of your mindset walking into this, this new challenge here back, you know, eight hours from what you were used to doing.
- [04:07]
Heather Wilson
No, for sure. You know, when I've made change earlier in my life, and I think when you're younger, change is a little bit easier. No, no offense, but when you've been someone that somewhere for 18 years or close to 18 years, you've developed a lot of relationships. And so that's probably one of the hardest things, making a change is developing those relationships. Not just the relationships within the school district, but the relationships with the city, with developers, with the, the colleges in town, just trying to build your pool of people that you can go to for help, even with the city, just trying to get with the city planning committees to see how fast is our community growing. Where do we have developments coming. All of that's brand new. When you move to a new organization, that's one kind of hurdle and the other is just trying to understand your staff, get to know the principals that you're serving the community that you're serving, and then just your other leaders you're serving besides. And so there's a lot of change there. I spent a lot of time when I first got here just trying to understand the history. So you're trying to figure out what the new tax base is. You're trying to figure out how fast they're growing, what neighborhoods grow faster than other neighborhoods, meaning which elementaries are going to grow faster. And so. And the demographics of your school district. I mean, there's just so much knowledge that you have to get in such a little bit of a time so that you can do your job effectively. And so I think that's one of the biggest hurdles is, you know, trying to understand your staff, what they want to achieve and then understand your community and what they want to achieve.
- [05:47]
John Brucato
Absolutely. You made a really good point that I didn't really think about until you just said it. We've talked about kind of transitioning school districts on here a few times before, but what you said about just leaving those relationships in terms of, you know, the municipalities and all of your contacts that you work with, your assessor's office and things like that. I went through a transition to a new district about five years ago, and I had to build all of those relationships from scratch again. And I think that's something that didn't. The light bulb didn't go off until what you just said. Like, I kind of took those relationships for granted in a sense, because I knew everybody I needed to contact when. And I could just pick the phone up and just say, hey, this is coming, or I need your help on this, or there's a development, you know, popping up around town, but you have to kind of just cold call. Right. For lack of a better term, to. To build these relationships. How. How did that go for you, trying to establish new relationships in this. In this new district?
- [06:42]
Heather Wilson
I'm still trying to establish them. So, yes, in fact, I just said, when the craziness stops with the tax assessor, can we go to lunch so we can get to know each other on a different level? And so I've already actually made that invitation, and I'm going to do the same thing with our keep appraiser just so that we can kind of talk outside of just the craziness of I got to have this right now. And so that's kind of. That's been a challenge. But yes. And then the city, you know, I'll come in and I'll ask for certain reports that I've had at my other previous areas, and they're. Why are you asking for these reports? We've never had anybody ask for these reports before. But, you know, I want to know how fast these homes are going up. I want to know just the different kind of plats and what's going on there and what's the approval process. And so. And then, you know, just trying to dig in and try to figure out, because we're kind of competing with a charter in town, and then, you know, how are they pulling our kids and we're not getting all those kids and just trying to understand those demographics and try to understand the why. So, you know, we get a little competitive when it comes to our students because that's how we get funding in Texas. And so I need those students.
- [07:53]
Tracy Ginsburg
You get competitive, let's face it, Heather, all the time.
- [07:56]
Heather Wilson
Yeah.
- [07:56]
Tracy Ginsburg
With everything I've played with you. So I know.
- [08:00]
John Brucato
Just naturally competitive.
- [08:01]
Tracy Ginsburg
Yeah.
- [08:02]
John Brucato
Um, so. So, Tracy, having just heard Heather's brief story of her. Her transitioning over to a new district, I'm sure you've helped many school business officials transition into new roles.
- [08:12]
Tracy Ginsburg
What.
- [08:13]
John Brucato
What are your reflections on. On what Heather has just said and what advice can you give to those maybe stepping into a leadership role that they're unfamiliar with and territory wise?
- [08:22]
Tracy Ginsburg
Well, I mean, I think one of the hardest things about moving is the relationships that Heather referred to, and it's the relationships around you at work. You're new and you have to prove yourself everywhere. But what I try to tell people is take a deep breath. You bloom where you're planted, and you need to bloom. And I've had this conversation with Heather many times, and it's one bite out of an apple at a time you're not going to fix. Heather walked into a district that I was in good shape, but like all districts, we all could do our procedures and processes differently or better, and it's that figure out what you're going to tackle first and get the small wins. And then as you take. As you begin to, things begin to snowball, if you will. But don't try to change everything all at once.
- [09:17]
John Brucato
Right, Right. So, Heather, you had mentioned really kind of learning the traditions of the district and essentially the culture. What are some of the first steps you've taken to really understand your organization's culture? And are you able to kind of glean on some things that you've been doing in your 18 years as a prior district that translate over really easily to your new district? And are there things that maybe you just can't copy and paste, and you kind of have to go about it a little bit of a different way.
- [09:47]
Heather Wilson
There are a lot of things you can't copy and paste, but thank goodness Texas has an amazing school of business officials, and that we're all there to help each other. I started out kind of doing stay interviews, and I think that was even a suggestion of Tracy. You know, just go in, do a stay interview with all of the directors you're going to supervise. That allows you to get an opportunity to kind of meet them, but then see what their goals are so that when you're planning your year out, making sure that you're growing those leaders into what they want to do next in their life. And so that's one of the first things I did just to get to know the leaders I was serving with and then just try to understand your school district. There were some things when I got here that were really kind of no go's for me. When I was younger, I would go into a school district, I would say, hey, here's the procedures manual, and this is what we're going to do, and this is where we're going to do it. Here we go. But as you get older, you realize you really got to got to make sure everybody's still on the ship before you move it further or everybody's going to jump off. And so that's something I've learned with time, but so we've kind of gone through slow mo. But the, the positives are there were a few things right off the bat that we had to make some adjustments to because I wasn't comfortable handling that them that way. And even like, you know, purchase order cutoffs. I think there were a lot of people that were a little bit skeptical about purchase order cutoffs. And it was funny though, because I went out and visited with those principals at the end of the year and just said, hey, kind of tell me what went well, what didn't go well, what could I have done better to serve you and get their information and just have time with them? And the one thing they kept on back was that was one of the best things they could do. They had never really planned a budget. They had never really thought about how they should set up their spending. They didn't think of efficient way to, you know, spend down their funds or plan on, you know, tackling your Mustangs and then keep those on the back burners in case you have leftover money at the end of the school year that you can go ahead and make those additional purchases. And so they never really thought that away, you know, and so those are some things that we changed. But, hey, those things worked out real well for me. Some of the other, you know, it's been a little bit harder. When I said, lean on school business officials, this is what I mean. So when I came from, we were extremely tight. I knew where every penny was in the entire budget, and we worked a very tight line. But when you get here, Frontline's another great company that I use that just tries to pull stories in and tells me, you know, like, where I might be spending too much, where I might be spending too little compared to my peer groups. And so I knew we were spending too much, for example, in supplies, but I didn't want to come in and say, hey, this is my old model, and I'm going to throw my previous district on you. So what I did is leaned on all of my school business officials, and I made everyone send me their allocations per student. And then I took everything in, calculated in multiple ways, and then kind of had to prove to them that, hey, this is a great way. I've done my research and we should cut here. And so that's kind of what we looked at. I just didn't come in and say, hey, this is a proven model. I've done it a different district. I didn't think that was fair to College Station. I needed to learn College Station, and I needed to. To kind of work with each director. When we started looking at cuts, well.
- [13:02]
John Brucato
It sounded like you used the data to speak for you. In a sense, it wasn't just Heather coming in saying, I've done this before. This is how I like to do things. You presented empirical data, objective data, and said, this isn't sustainable. We need to make some changes, and here's why. How was that received from College Station? Your folks over there?
- [13:22]
Heather Wilson
You know, I have come to find out. You know, of course, I'm getting to work with a bunch of Aggies around here, I hate to tell you. But anyway, I work with some of the brightest individuals. I work with the most amazing director of finance. I work with the most amazing principals and department heads, and they have been very. They've given me a lot of grace, and they've been very acceptable to change. And so I really appreciate that. A lot of them come back and say, yes, we know we had too much in our budget. We know we needed to cut. And I've come from a different district, and yes, we had to have money in the budget before we made a purchase. And so there were some things like that that right off the bat they agreed that this was a good change. But, you know, with change, it is hard. And I'm always fearful of that. One next change is going to, like I said, people are going to start jumping off the ship.
- [14:13]
John Brucato
Right, right. And, Tracy, from your standpoint, I have to imagine Tasbo offers a lot of pd, whether it be kind of in the nuts and bolts of things in leadership. So from your vantage point, you know, what has TASBO been able to do for school business officials across Texas to really prepare people for, like Heather in her position, transitioning over to a new school district?
- [14:36]
Tracy Ginsburg
You know, TASBO has been with both Heather and I throughout our careers, and TASBO is the reason I firmly believe we're successful. You know, TASBO is where you come to find the answer. But we don't only train you in the nuts and bolts. We help you build relationships across the state and find those people who can help you identify those unique issues and unique problems and find a better way, another way to do things. And so that's what task was for. And, you know, we were always known as the trusted resource. But I really like our new tagline of find the answer here, because you do find the answer. And I think often our business officials and our operations officials, they kind of are in the background and they're unseen. But we're the. We're the cog in the wheel, right? We're what makes schools function. And, you know, TASBO is here to help schools function in the most effective and efficient way possible.
- [15:45]
John Brucato
So do you think TASBO is kind of the instinctual resource for school business officials in Texas to go to? Do they know that TASBO is there even if they're just coming out of college? Or maybe they're an auditor transitioning over to working in a school district. Does Tasbo have a presence or are people aware that they should go? That is their. Their first stop?
- [16:04]
Tracy Ginsburg
I. I like to think they do. Our membership is growing. We have programs for people at all stages of their career.
- [16:12]
John Brucato
That's great. That's great. So. So, Heather, kind of going back to what we were talking about with you transitioning into College Station, I think the data example was great. I mean, being able to be objective and remove biases from decisions is always good. But when we think about wins and losses in terms of coming into a new district, can you tell me what small wins or early relationships play in really kind of setting a Positive, healthy tone in the office, and just really across the district.
- [16:40]
Heather Wilson
Okay. So, you know, it's not just me cutting budgets and looking at deficits. It's really kind of a whole district thing. And it takes everyone. It takes people wanting to look at their overtime pay. It takes people cutting their budgets and looking at more efficient ways to spend, maybe if there's multiple softwares and things like that, cutting back on those softwares. And so it's not really a cfo and you can't do it alone. It's really the district as a whole. We have a great leadership team that stepped up. And, you know, when I got here, people kept on saying, hey, we don't pay what we need to pay. We don't pay what we need to pay. But I was looking at the entire budget, and I'm just thinking, there's no reason that we couldn't raise pay if we could get some of this other stuff under control. And so that's one thing our board and our superintendent did this year, is we cut a lot out of expenditures and contracted services and things like that. But we did give a 5% raise to all of our staff. And so we really kind of rewarded those that were stepping up to the plate and trying to look at more efficient ways to handle business.
- [17:44]
John Brucato
So the skeptic in me. Indulge me for a second. So in my experience, giving more money, I feel, is an instant gratification, and I feel like there's a spike in appreciation and maybe productivity, but I've seen that isn't necessarily sustainable, and people kind of go back to their old habits and things like that. I think what you're able to do creatively with maybe retooling your budget and being able to maybe give more than a. Than a normal increase to employees is great, and I'm sure they're appreciative. But is there that kind of gnawing in the back of your head, like, is this going to pay off, or are we just giving 5% to kind of stay in the same cycle we've been in for the past however many years?
- [18:30]
Heather Wilson
I think they were very appreciative. They really hadn't seen a raise like that, especially for administrators. They might have been competing with the hourly staff, trying to get those employees up. And so they might have received a 4% raise, but typically your admin staff had only received typically 2% raises. But I agree with what you're saying, and my fear, too, is this is going to be a hard year because we did cut the Budgets back. And it's just trying to make people get comfortable with spending less and they're going to have to do it in this school year. And so I am fearful, you know, I set aside a little bit of money, but I am fearful, fearful that they're going to have a harder time than they typically have had. So we'll see.
- [19:16]
Tracy Ginsburg
We'll see.
- [19:16]
John Brucato
I'll have you back on in a year and see how. So I'd like to focus our conversation now more so on the value of professional development and just peer networking. I've greatly benefited from all that ASBO New York and ASBO International has been able to offer throughout my career. As you both have mentioned, you've both been active in TASBO for many years. Can you tell me, you know, how has that long term involvement in the association really shaped your leadership growth? And maybe, Tracy, we can start with you.
- [19:45]
Tracy Ginsburg
Well, I actually want to segue back. When Heather was talking, I got to thinking about, you know, we forgot to tell you that she's our current TESPO president and been such fun to work with. But you know, she became president as she was transitioning. So not only did she change districts, she changed past both years. I've had several presidents that have made that transition in their presidency year and I think I feel bad for them because I think it takes away the celebration with the staff they left behind. But having said that, when she gave her President's Challenge, she gave the best President's challenge I believe I've heard. And she talked about the faith of a mustard mustard seed and how important that is. And you know, it's one of my favorite parables. But she challenged all of us, all the TESPO members to be a mustard seed, to reach out and invest in others, to teach, to mentor, to grow and to help people grow. And you know, I've kind of kept that in the back of my mind all year because that really is what we need to be. And so TASBO is the mustard seed. The Heathers of the world are our mustard seeds. And they're, you know, we had an Eagle Award winner last year. Michelle's a terrific mustard seed. And those are the people we have to keep engaged and upbeat and ready to volunteer. We all, we all don't have to be president. We all don't have to be on stage. There are lots of quiet leaders in the background and it's just making sure we know who those people are and we're tapping on them.
- [21:28]
John Brucato
Yeah, that's so well said. And Heather, how about you? I mean, how has Tasbo really helped shaped your leadership throughout your career?
- [21:36]
Heather Wilson
I honestly don't think it's possible without Tasbo. And I mean that wholeheartedly. When I did talk about the mustard seed, I just think that Tasbo started, you know, with just a seed and it's grown to be this huge shelter. And with that being said, I mean, there are so many challenges that were faced and the changes happen so rapidly. And if we didn't have Tasbo there to support us, to help us, I mean, you're one person, but with Tasbo, you're so much larger than that. And without this support group, I don't think this job is possible. And it's definitely not possible. Want to be sane. So I can't possibly see doing this without Tasbo. That's wonderful along the way. And I stress this all the time because, you know, I have three boys and my whole life has been about my three children, my husband and my job. And we have to spend so much time doing these jobs. These jobs are huge for everyone, not just the state of Texas, but all across the United States. These jobs are huge and they're extremely stressful. And you've got a lot on your shoulder because you definitely don't want to mess up anything that would affect a child in the education of a student. I mean, that's like my purpose and with all that being said is when we come together as a group, it's kind of like family. We all lean on each other, we all support each other. We've all been through the good and the bad together. And I feel like just in this past legislative session, it's taken all of us to support each other and hold each other up. I think it's one. I've been one of the toughest ones I've ever been through. And so again, without Tasbo and without your, your other peers, I just don't think it's possible.
- [23:28]
John Brucato
Right. You also, Tracy mentioned, obviously you're president of Tasbo this year and you were transitioning to a new district in the same year. Did you have to kind of talk through your, your prospective district and say there's going to be some out of district commitments for me? Because I remember when I started here in I was on the board of as well. I still am, but was just starting on the board of ASBO New York. And I just gave them a heads up. I told them like, listen, I'm on the board. There's going to be commitments throughout the year that are. That's going to pull me out of the office. And I just wanted to be upfront about that because that's, that's something that's important to me. And if, if that doesn't work, then, you know, maybe that's a different conversation. Did you have to kind of walk through that with, you know, your prospective employer before you. You jumped in.
- [24:12]
Heather Wilson
Absolutely. So that was one of the things I talked to him before I even took the job to make sure that I had signed up for this. It was coming on. He's been more, he's been extremely supportive. I have an amazing superintendent that I have the opportunity to work with, even though he is a Longhorn, but he even came to the president's dinner where I was actually past the gavel and so very supportive. And they also have to understand that there is a benefit to the school district when you serve in these roles because it just strengthens your relationships across the state of Texas. And even when you talk about professional development with asbo, Tracy has taken her board and we've traveled to the leadership conferences together. It builds our team, our executive team, but it also some amazing training that we've been able to have the opportunity to work together to even strengthen our leadership skills.
- [25:06]
John Brucato
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- [26:08]
Tracy Ginsburg
Well, I mean, we just have an amazing team. I am so thankful that it doesn't all fall on my shoulders. I'm thankful that the board has allowed us to fulfill our vision of truly being that resource. And so we have this great team that's very plugged into legislative changes at the state level. And Christy also is now on the Federal Advocacy Committee. And so we have what I hope would be a periodic legislative update that seems to be going out once or twice a week at the moment. You know, we're just. It's just a very plugged in network, and we've got people on team who can help you walk through those conundrums that may come up that you're facing as you try to figure out what to do about the budget or what's going to go on with federal funds. You know, we have that whole yo, yo of the last month. Are they coming? Are they not coming? And lo and behold, they're coming. So just a whole source of resources that we have available here at tesplay.
- [27:20]
John Brucato
Great. And, Heather, from a practitioner standpoint, has being a member of TASBO allowed you to kind of lean on the association and other members to kind of navigate times of challenging uncertainty? And, I mean, your transition to your new district. Tell me a little bit more about your personal experience just being a member of tasbo, not necessarily the president, but just your average member of Texas association of Business Officials.
- [27:44]
Tracy Ginsburg
Sure.
- [27:44]
Heather Wilson
You know, we have this wonderful thing called center of School Finance at tasbo, and we have leaned heavily on them. In fact, I was working through a summary of finance before we got on this phone call, and I have an email in to Janae waiting on some tax information. I mean, they are absolutely amazing. So, yes, we lean on them constantly. And even with this transition into this job, I've called Tracy, I even called Karen Smith. Y' all are all very much aware there. She's on the board, and she talked me off the ledge a couple of times. She's like, you gotta get through a year. You gotta get through a year. You know, don't jump ship yet. You can do, you know, like, change is extremely hard. And so to go and lean on them. And she says, heather, you know, my first year that I made a change, the first year was hard. And then I started developing better relationships with the leaders that I was serving next to. We all get to know each other. That's one thing when you've been in a district forever. I mean, you know everyone and you know, what'll set someone off, what won't? Or, you know, you're just. I don't know. You don't. But when you make a change, you're kind of flying blindly there for a while and you really don't know. Like I always say, don't knock down the fences before you know why they were built, but you really don't know you're about to knock down someone's fence sometimes. So you just fly blindly sometimes. I don't know. But yes, lots of leaning on different leaders in the state of Texas. And just like I said earlier when I was looking at allocations, that was calling every one of them, send me your allocations. Send me your allocations. You know, just so that I had multiple people to kind of go back to. Just so it wasn't just, oh, this is Heather way to do it. It's really, there's amazing people in the state of Texas that do great jobs and they're willing to share.
- [29:25]
Tracy Ginsburg
Yeah.
- [29:25]
John Brucato
Really adopting that at Chesterton's fence principle and not just blowing things up because you don't know how they work or why they're there, but actually taking the time to really unpack why things are set up the way they are. Because there's always a reason. It just may take a little bit more time to kind of dig down into the. Into that reason and find out. So that's great. So, you know, when we were talking offline about topics to really discuss on today's episode, Tracy, you had mentioned that Texas is in kind of a what you described as a deficit world for those outside of Texas. Can you give our listeners an idea of what financial pressures you guys are against and really what is the landscape of public education in Texas right now?
- [30:07]
Tracy Ginsburg
Well, I think the landscape of public education in general is not what it was when I came to this profession 40 years ago. It's hard to believe that I've had that long of a career, and it's been a great career. But I think public service in general is not as valued as it was at one point. And that just breaks my heart because to me, public education in particular, it's one of the things that makes America what America is. It was a gift from our founding fathers that we believe that every child can succeed. And I believe that, and I still do. But you have to have resources. You have to have a supportive public and reasonable standards to measure success. And, you know, in Texas, we went through a change in our public finance rules. And I won't. I won't belabor the details, because I can assure you a. I'll get them wrong. And if you're not in Texas, you don't. It doesn't matter. But those changes happened in 2019. And then we went into Covid, and at the time they happened, I thought, oh, I don't know if this is going to work. So well, but they'll address it next legislative session. Well, then Covid came and we were addressing a whole other sorts of problems. And there was a lot of money that flew during COVID And so it kind of masked the holes in the finance formula that were developed. And for various reasons they have not been addressed. Our basic allotment, which every state has some form of basic allotment, was frozen from 2019 until this legislative session. But I can't. What you get $145 a student, Heather. I can't remember how much you got. $145 a student. More to districts since 2019 was all that came this session.
- [32:10]
John Brucato
Wow.
- [32:11]
Tracy Ginsburg
Now there is a whole bunch of money that went. But it all went for teacher raises, which teachers need to be compensated. My daughter's a benefactor. She's getting one heck of a raise. She wants a new couch. We keep telling her don't spend it all in one spot. So anyway. But it's kind of the family joke. Go get that couch. Go get that couch. But that feels good. Now, I don't know how in the long term, I told her mom's advice was don't spend it all at once because that's all you're getting for a very long time. And so I think we have found, we have found all the efficiencies. I'm sure we can find more efficiencies. But we found all the low hanging fruit, we found all the mid hanging fruit and we're at the top of the tree. And it really frightens me for this next generation of students because we have a quality education system. Are there problems? Of course there are. Are there students who don't perform as well as they should? Absolutely. But it's not just public schools problem. There's a whole societal problem that needs to be addressed. And we just, it's so easy to throw stones and I don't know, I could get on a soapbox and go on for hours. But it just, you know what, it disappoints me. And I've got to believe that our forefathers are shaking their heads and wondering what's going on.
- [33:41]
John Brucato
Right. You mentioned that more funding is being diverted to raises and things like that, which I agree with you. I feel that teachers need to be fairly compensated. But what is being sacrificed to be able to do that? Because I'm assuming that the pie of money isn't getting larger. It's just you're shifting where the money's going. So maybe it's a little too early to see that because, you know, you're still in this kind of wait and see mode, it sounds like. But what do you feel is going to be now have to be sacrificed because of this change in funding?
- [34:12]
Heather Wilson
Well, I kind of think leadership. So one of the things that Texas is doing is they did do a raise. A large race. Depending on the size of your district and your years of experience, some received up to 8,000. Some with a larger school district received 5,000 a year. If they had five or more years, in addition to that, they get something called teacher incentive allotment. So with the teacher incentive allotment, if they're a classroom teacher, they'll qualify for additional funding. And it's pretty hefty. So the raise only went to classroom teachers. It did not go to our instructional coaches. It didn't go to interventionists. It didn't go to those that are assistant principals or principals. And so my fear is it's going to be hard to get some of your best teachers out of a classroom to lead the whole pack to grow that level up a little bit more. Because what they're doing is they're just focusing everything into the classroom teacher and penalizing us. Like Traci said earlier, we got very little money to be given to others to get their salary up, including administrators. And I know it's a big push, you know, not to give administrators, and I'm not talking that. But when we're paying an assistant prisoner principal less than they would make if they were in the classroom, same thing for instructional coach, same thing for your counselors. It's going to be harder to fill those positions. And those positions are so vital to the success of a campus because you've got to have an amazing leader. Same thing holds through for maybe a math coach for the entire district. It's going to be hard to fill those positions. And so I think eventually this is going to kind of backfire a little bit because school districts don't have the money to. I mean, when our insurance has gone up as much as it has since 2019, and our utilities and our fuel costs and everything has gone sky high and we haven't got any additional funding, we're at the top. Like Tracy says, we've shaken everything. There's nothing left in most school districts to cut unless you're going to cut a program. And we none of us want to cut a program that's going to enhance the learning of a child. That music, band, anything like that? No, those are art. We don't want to do that.
- [36:36]
John Brucato
So with the incentive. I'm guessing this is what it means because it's in the name. But is the teacher incentive to promote teachers to stay in the classroom rather than jump careers or bring in new teachers? What is the impetus behind that additional financial measure?
- [36:51]
Heather Wilson
Well, I do think it is to get those salaries up so that we have a competitive salary to keep teachers in the field. And so I think that's really kind of the push is to keep them in teaching. And we want that more than anything to be able to get their salaries up so they're going to want to stay as educators. It's just the other. They've kind of got to look a little bit further and see what they can do for our principals and stuff.
- [37:14]
Tracy Ginsburg
Well, you know, I think administrators get a bad rap, but I don't think you take, you know, I think the average person doesn't understand the bulk of responsibility an administrator carries on their shoulders. A campus principal may be overseeing at a high school, maybe have 3,000 kiddos that they're responsible for a host of federal funds, state funds, not to say nothing of safety programs and all the extracurricular. And the responsibility is great. And I think that we sometimes forget that we need to recognize that responsibility.
- [37:55]
John Brucato
So, Heather, given all of this information, how are you approaching your budgeting process in the upcoming year?
- [38:01]
Heather Wilson
We did give a 5% raise to those positions. We walked their scales up a little bit, but we still can't walk them where they need to be. The money's not there, but we did what we could to try to make it as right as possible.
- [38:13]
John Brucato
So I want to end on a happy note. I want to talk a little bit about Fort Worth in the upcoming annual conference and expo with ASBO International. So as someone who I admittedly have never been to any portion of Texas, can you tell me a little bit about Fort Worth and what attendees can expect for those maybe, like myself, who haven't made the venture to the Lone Star State?
- [38:39]
Tracy Ginsburg
Well, Fort Worth is great. And in all honesty, when we do our TASBO conferences, that's where our members like to go most. I was so excited we were going to be in Fort Worth. It's a terrific city. It's a welcoming city.
- [38:55]
Heather Wilson
You know, you have to go to a livestock roundup. I think it's called a livestock, I mean, stockyard down there, and they literally take the livestock and the cowboys are on their horses and they do a roundup down the city streets. And it's at the Houston livestock area where they have the rodeos and everything. And if you need a cowboy hat, you can get one there too. You know, they have boots. It's kind of funny though, because I always thought Dallas was the big time because we're all small town around here. Majority of Texas people are small towns. I thought Dallas and me was like fancy, you know, big, big city. But I was trans. My husband was transferred to the Fort Worth area early, early, early in our life. And I went into a restaurant and I thought, man alive is just like a small town. They're all in their cowboy boots. And I think some people even had their spurs on. I mean, it is a little bit more. When you talk Dallas, Fort Worth, that's the more Texas representative side of things, I think. I don't know.
- [39:59]
Tracy Ginsburg
Tracy, what do you think Dallas is the shiny penny. And Fort Worth is where the work gets done. But you do need to go down to Fort Worth. Now. If you go down to the cattle drive that occurs down at the stockyards three or four times a day, don't expect them to move real fast. They're tired cattle. But it is so much fun. It's a little bit of Texas. We're working with our affiliate in Fort Worth to get a list of restaurants for you guys so that you can kind of get out and see the city. But Fort Worth actually is. They're trying to change their image to become a little less cow town, a little more city. And so Sundance Square, lots of arts and activities there. I mean, Fort Worth is one of my favorite cities in Texas.
- [40:51]
John Brucato
I'm sorry I'll be missing it. I'll have a newborn. So I, you know, in order to preserve my marriage, I'm going to stay home.
- [40:59]
Heather Wilson
Don't forget. And don't forget to have the Mexican food, right?
- [41:04]
Tracy Ginsburg
Yeah, the Mexican food is great. Go to what Jyoti Garcia's down in the stockyards.
- [41:09]
John Brucato
Awesome. So wrapping up here, any first time attendees to AsBlue International's Acne? What would be your message to them with it being hosted this year in Fort Worth? Maybe Heather, we'll start with you.
- [41:24]
Tracy Ginsburg
Sure.
- [41:25]
Heather Wilson
Like I say, like even when I teach class and stuff, lean over to the person beside you. Introduced yourself, get to know them. They could be your next best friend. Put your cards because we're all here to help each other be successful. So that's one thing I would say about Texas, but that's with anywhere that you would have an ASBO conference.
- [41:43]
John Brucato
And Tracy, what would be your message to first time attendees this year?
- [41:49]
Tracy Ginsburg
Take advantage of all that ASBO has to offer like Heather, make some friends from out of state, broaden your perspective. But don't forget that this is your opportunity to maybe experience, experience a new city and enjoy Fort Worth.
- [42:09]
John Brucato
Wonderful. Well, Tracy, Heather, thank you so much for joining me today on School Business Insider. It was so great talking to you.
- [42:15]
Tracy Ginsburg
Well, thank you, John. This was great. I appreciate the time.
- [42:18]
Heather Wilson
Thank you for giving me the opportunity.
- [42:21]
John Brucato
Thank you for tuning in to School Business Insider. Make sure to check back each week for your favorite topics on School business.