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School Business Insider
From Rejection to Renewal: A School Business Journey in Trust & Transparency
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John Brucato
You're listening to ASBO International's School Business Insider. I'm your host, John Brucato. Each week on School Business Insider, I sit down with school business officials and industry experts from around the world to share their stories and explore the topics that matter most to you. Find out what it means to be a school business official and get your insider pass on all things school business. Hey, everyone. Today's a little different. I am flying solo for a personal reflection on the 2425 school year. It's been transformative, and I really want to kind of take you through really what I've been through and maybe my district has been through over the past couple of years. This episode is more than just about facilities and finances. I want to focus on trust, transparency, and really the work that we've done here at my school districts to, to earn and maintain our community's confidence. So just six years ago, Briarcliffe Manor saw about a $36 million capital bond go down in defeat. Our taxpayers were frustrated, skeptical, disengaged. However, today we've just completed a $27 million capital project with overwhelming support that came with no tax increases, no surprises. We were very open and honest and transparent with our community and just a community united around a clear, transparent plan that I think really reflects the shared priorities. So I want to kind of just reflect on now that we had this project completed, you know, how did we get here? What changed? And hopefully what can you learn from some of the mistakes that we've made here in, in my district? So before I get into that, this year has been an absolute whirlwind. I. This is my 10th year in, in school finance, school business right now. And it's amazing because I. I have this. This weird feeling where sometimes it feels like I just started and I'm still learning new things and still trying to crawl my way out of. Of some, you know, perennial issues. And then there's other times where I feel like I've been doing this my entire life. Not that there isn't a light at the end of the tunnel, but it does really get taxing, I think, after a while. I think the work that we do as school financial officials is thankless, like we've talked about on previous episodes, but I think there's a lot of pride in the profession and in the individuals because what we do is very unique. And I've heard so many times that's been again repeated on this podcast that there isn't really someone else that you can rely on in the district to Kind of bounce ideas off of necessarily apples to apples because we're, we're one of one. But I will say this year has been incredibly rewarding. It. I'm recording this late June. It's always nice to see the graduates every single year. I think that's a good reminder as to why we do what we do is to just see these kids walk across the stage and close one chapter and open up another chapter that's going to be the majority of their life. So it really is inspiring and a little hot, to say the least. Up in New York, we're on the cusp of a heat wave and in the last couple of weeks it's been pretty warm. So I made the mistake of wearing my cap and gown, but underneath it, my full suit. I don't know what the heck I was thinking. Probably should have put a polo on or something, but I was sweating, sweating pretty hard at high school graduation the other day. So again, even though I've been doing this for 10 years, maybe I can't learn every lesson, although it's easy to preach. Make sure you plan ahead and dress accordingly. I hope all of you listening have had a good school year. Most of you are wrapped up or probably wrapping up your fiscal year. So good luck with your audits. I hope the school year was a success. I'm just getting off of ASBO New York's Education Summit. It's our annual conference that we have every June. And it's so nice to reconnect with colleagues. And one of my favorite things about going to those conferences is I get to see people that I really only see maybe once or twice a year. But it's amazing how you can just kind of pick up where you leave off year after year. So it's good to just reconnect, see how people are doing. I will say I was a little disheartened because a lot of people I talked to, just one, had one heck of a year, just really challenging, just new issues cropping up. Whether it's some financial concerns or some, some project concerns, maybe issues with parents and curriculum that kind of trickle down into the rest of the culture in the district. But, you know, it was tough to listen to. But in the same vein, I've been there before, you know, I listened a lot more than I kind of added the conversation because I will say that, knock on wood, I had a very calm and pretty status quo year. In terms of turmoil. There hasn't been too much, thankfully. But I don't think we got to this point by Accident. So I know what we do is very cyclical and I'm sure I'll have my time in the sun to shine when it comes to turmoil and challenges that I'm not looking for. But for right now, I'm really grateful that we are where we are in my district and just kind of where we've landed. But again, that's not by accident. So when I, you know, I was talking to my colleagues, I, I was really reflecting on what I was hearing and some of the challenges that we're going through. And I, I went through those maybe like six or seven years ago pretty heavily. In a previous district, we, we had some administrative changes, superintendent board changes, and you know, a lot of that can come with, with that turnover and, and higher end leadership and the board so can be tumultuous. But you know, we, we, we survive it, we work through it. But I'm happy to say that this past year, the past few years really have been pretty good. We haven't been doing anything too crazy. The community's been incredibly supportive. Our board is fantastic. You know, I have a great superintendent, so it's really nice to finally just kind of get into a rhythm and really focus on the work itself and not just kind of putting fires out and just scrambling all the time. But it wasn't always that way, and it certainly for me, and it wasn't always that way here in my school district. You know, I came on in 2020, so I had a lot to learn about the, the culture and the traditions and the history and just as importantly, some of the challenges that we faced as a, as a school community and a school district. So back in 2018, we had a failed bond, like I said, of about $36 million. $36 million proposal to the taxpayers. You know, the community, excuse me, the community voted on it, voted it down. And I think that was really a low point for us because we had a lot of great ideas in this project and a lot of good work to mostly benefit students directly with new instructional spaces, new H vac, new community adjacent spaces. There was just a lot going into this bond. However, we had a community that they're very astute when it comes to their taxes and, and if you're not familiar in the state of New York, I think this is unique. When you compare all 49 other states, we have to have our budget voted on specifically by the community every single year. So, you know, whether the community is happy or dissatisfied with your educational program, your capital outlay, whatever, it is really the only Way they can voice that. That frustration or that appreciation is through a budget vote. So whether it's directly related to the numbers or not, that's oftentimes how the community expresses their opinions on how you're doing as a school district. So when you go back to 2018, as I was saying, our community is very tuned in. We're a higher wealth district. So our community is very dialed into their taxes. So any kind of tax implication or anything that is messing with their. With the tax levy is met with a lot of scrutiny and rightfully so. I mean, our community pays a large portion of the district's revenue. So I completely understand. But I realized just kind of having. Peeling back the onion. When I started here in 2020, we were looking at doing another bond coming up, but we were. We're trying to learn our lessons from 2018. And again, having not been here, it was kind of learning twice, learning what had happened and then learning kind of the. The internal machinations of how we ended up at this point. So I realized that from what I heard from board members, from community members, people that really expressed their dissatisfaction with what we put forward, it felt just like we were cramming too much. That just didn't really have an arc to it. Just a little bit of this, a little bit of that. There really wasn't a cohesive plan. Now, looking at it from the outside, looking in, when I first started, I didn't necessarily agree with that, but as I kind of again, peeled back the onion and was talking to people who were really a part of it, it started to make sense. It wasn't necessarily that the capital project itself was just all over the place. I mean, there was a lot in there. I mean, $36 million in 2018 was able to do a lot. But I think the way it was communicated, the way it was put together and the way it was really marketed to the community was really where we fell short. It was an interesting place. Coming into. To my school district in 2020. I mean, I'm not going to get into Covid. That was its own unique circumstances. But when I think about the bond that had failed and what we were trying to do, to go back out to the community and say, I know you didn't trust us on the first one, but we're going to ask you again. Do you think you can vote yes and push us forward into what we need to do? It was interesting trying to understand what those problems were. And I think a lot of it was just a trust factor. I think the community it's not that they didn't trust us, but we certainly had a faction in our community that was kind of your typical like anti tax community. So because so much of their taxes was going towards the school, they really focused in on us. So for us to come out and say, oh, we want to spend 36 million more dollars, that was a huge issue. And I don't think it was unwarranted to get that kind of feedback. However, had we communicated it a little bit more clearly and just been a little bit more strategic with how we put this project together, I don't know that we would have been met with as much resistance or even having the budget vote or the bond vote down, I think maybe it could have passed. So having learned all that, you know, I started in August of 20 and we were, we were looking to go out to vote in 2021. So it was a quick turnaround for me. We were going out to vote in May of 21, so I had to get in gear and really start moving. So you know, when I came into to the district there was a, what we call the Facilities Planning Committee. So already I think that the district had learned from lessons prior that you need to have more involvement. Although it can be painful and I will admit I am not one for huge committees. I like to be as efficient and make quick decisions, educated quick decisions and kind of get to, to the work. Sitting around a table with 20, 30 people, I will admit can be a little, a little painful depending on who's on the committee. But I'm realizing and have realized before that sometimes that is just part of the process. So given our history, there was a lot of trepidation in terms of trying to be super laser focused, efficient and getting a couple people in a room and building a project. I think that's where we screwed up last time. So we had this facilities Planning committee and we intentionally made it broad and representative of those that would be voting on a bond like this. So we had community, maybe didn't have children. We had parents of rural representing all three of our buildings. We have a elementary and middle and high school. We had administrators from each building. We had teachers, we had just district administrators. So it was a pretty large committee. I think it really was 20 to 30 people. And I remember coming into the district and laughing with my board liaison to the committee at the time. She said that we have this committee and it's about 20 to 30 people. And she just saw the look on my face. I'm like, wow, that's a lot. It's a lot of opinions, a lot of feedback. But I think I learned from that process that although maybe it's not my style to gather a huge group of people like that, it really paid off, and I'll kind of get to why. So, you know, through this process, this Facilities Planning Committee process, we conducted district walkthroughs. We gathered a lot of input, and we really focused on aligning the needs of our students, not necessarily the wants. I think, again, lesson learned from the previous project. It was a lot of wants. Not to say we didn't need much of what was being proposed, but we definitely wanted a lot. We still want to do a lot. But I think there was a schism between what we as a district thought we needed and what the community at large thought we needed. So by having everybody in on the ground floor as part of that conversation, I think really helped broaden our perspective in terms of what needed to happen or what the perception of need is. So it was a lot of work, a lot of walkthroughs, and a lot of the actual physical walkthroughs. Sidebar thankfully happened before I got here. A because again, I like to be very focused and efficient. Not to say that walking the buildings is not. But when you have. You're corralling 30 people, it can be pretty time consuming. But also, trying to have done that through Covid would have been a logistical nightmare. So I think a lot of the legwork was done, and I thank my predecessor for that, for really stewarding all those meetings. So I was able to kind of pick up the baton and really take it through to the finish line. So we were developing a cogent, clearly prioritized plan grounded in reality. I mean, that was really our focus because again, we learned our lessons from the $36 million proposal. So we wanted to be as prepared as possible to get a good project together. So I've been a part of many different capital projects from my previous districts, and I found that that is really the common denominator is communication. And I could probably argue that for really any problem that we have in our jobs. I think most of you would probably agree with me that the common denominator of our issue is communication or lack thereof. So I took that to heart. I really emphasized that we needed to speak to our community in a different way and more. So not just speak to, but kind of have that collaborative feel to it. So that Facilities Planning Committee really kind of changed my outlook and I think really changed the community's outlook because it Wasn't just the district saying, we need to do this and here's how much it's going to cost. It was community members being able to chime in and say, yes, we need to do this, and here's the cost because. And maybe go through all the different iterations of why we needed to do things. But I think it's easy to point the finger from the outside and say, you should do. You don't have to do these parking lots. They're totally fine. Or you don't have to do this athletic field. It's totally fine. Why does it cost so much to replace all the H Vac? Why does it cost so much to do the roof? Well, you know, your average community member probably isn't aware of prevailing wage and all of the other legislation and restrictions that are put on public entities such as school districts. So being able to. I know if I wasn't in my seat, my eyes would be glazing over, but being able to speak to our community about that in a very controlled setting, not in a public session at a board meeting, but really doing a deep dive with these. These Facilities Planning Committee members, I think was. I saw the light bulb go off because people are looking at potential budget numbers for the project, and this is just astronomical. And it's like, yeah, yeah, it is. That is unfortunately kind of the system that we have to work in. That's why we bond this work. However, you know, New York's unique in a sense, where we get a portion of the project paid for by the state of New York based on our an aid ratio. So when you factor in all those things in and you're factoring in your amortization schedule for your debt, like we go through all of that, and even some of our most acute finance people in the community and on the Facilities Planning Committee admittedly said that they couldn't believe how complex this is. And that's government at work, baby. You know? So we were able to kind of work through all of those challenges. But, you know, I kind of eating crow a little bit when I was giving my board member a hard time when I started, because had it not been for that Facilities Planning Committee and had it not been for us taking the time to walk through all those iterations, not just what we need, but how you pay for it and how long it's going to take and secret and all those things, I don't know that we would have been able to sit here today and look at what a beautiful project we've completed, which I'll get into the specifics of our more recent project in just a minute. But again, communication really, I think, is that common denominator. We had a few voices in the community that not only were opposing the bond, but from what I gathered, had opposed really every single budget in recent history. I mean, they would just poke holes in every single thing that we would do and would just get incredibly frustrating. And I will say that had it not been for them, I don't know that I would be in the position I'm in today. And what I mean by that is I feel like I'm a better school business official for those reasons. I feel like I know what I'm talking about most of the time. But when it came to that level of scrutiny from the community, it made me look at the way we were budgeting, the way we were planning capital projects very differently. I, I will admit I certainly took things for granted in, in previous projects. Not at this district where things were a little bit easier a little. You could kind of just go through the motions. And it's not that we weren't doing good work or paying close attention, but I think we took for, at least I did. I took for granted the, the amenable nature of the community. We're now here. Everything was met with scrutiny. So I, I realized that I was, you know, we, we had many, many meetings and some of these individuals were very combative and we're throwing out some accusations that it's hard not to take things personally. I think when you have somebody kind of pointing their finger at you and accusing you of doing things that you know are untrue. But, you know, how do you prove a negative? It can be really challenging, especially in public session where, you know, we give our community a three minute monologue. And it's not supposed to be a back and forth. So I said, you know, when I kind of got my feet wet in my foothold when I started here, given the timeline, I said, you know, we really have nothing to hide and I need to put my best foot forward and make my best effort to, I don't want to say convince the community or these community members specifically, but demonstrate to them, like, listen, we're not squirreling away money. We're not misusing or misappropriating taxpayer dollars like we are. Our margins are razor thin. We're doing everything we can within the constraints of public education. So I said, you know, I'll bring a couple of these individuals into my office and just really kind of sit down and talk. I didn't have an agenda. I didn't really have anything planned other than the fact I wanted to hopefully demonstrate that we were working in the best interest of them, the students, and our community at large. So I brought one of the gentlemen in. I can remember to this day it was still in the middle of COVID so I knew what his eyes look like, but that was about it because we were both masked up. But, you know, we sat down for, I don't know, an hour and a half, two hours maybe, and we talked. We did small talk from like, family stuff all the way to our long range financial plan. And he used to be a part of a committee here decades ago where they had a plan and now we don't. And there was all of these different things that we kind of walked through. And actually, it was a really good history lesson for me because hearing his experience from his voice really resonated with me. And now I finally. I felt like I was getting why there was so much resentment in the community, because admittedly, I'm not saying our district was financially mismanaged, but I just think that the way we approached it and communicated it out just was doing ourselves a disservice. So getting really literally a decade's plus worth of history from this community member was eye opening. And again, moments like that have shaped me in terms of not taking those things for granted and maybe taking the extra time to explain anything from goofy acronyms that we have to deal with as school business officials all the way to how a plan is, how our long range financial plan is put together, and how the different cogs in the wheel make this whole system moving forward a possibility. Because I was again, been doing this for 10 years. And it's like I've been saying the same thing over and over. Because, you know, our jobs are very cyclical. So I think maybe I got even a little lazy with terms of taking a little extra time to explain it. But I realized in that moment, talking to this individual, that I can't take it for granted. Because there's not always going to be those people that have been around that have heard me say this, that have gone through the budget presentations, that have gone through the capital improvement plan presentations. There could be new families moving into the district. They don't know necessarily what the history of your district is. So I realize that I have to just maybe put my ego aside, not let things slide, and don't take the community for granted. Take the extra time to explain how these things work. Because even though you're bored if you're lucky, you have a good board and they've been around for a while, and there's not a lot of turnover. You feel like you're kind of just preaching to the choir and you're saying the same thing. But you have to remember the board isn't your only audience. Your community's out there. And even though our board meetings are not that well attended, I know people are tuning in at home, because when I run into community members at night events or whatever, they're bringing up things that I know they weren't at that meeting, but they're definitely watching it after. And even more importantly, rumors out in the community. People say it's like a game of telephone. So by the time somebody comes to me, it's five versions different than what was actually talked about. So I realized that you have to take the extra time to kind of go through these things. Although year after year it may be monotonous to you as a school business official, taking the extra time to really go through it has proven beneficial. And again, didn't really click to me for me, rather, until I sat down with that community member, that opposition member, who, you know, it's really been much different in recent times. Haven't heard much lately. But, you know, I think that was kind of a turning point in our relationship, because when I first started here, I'm like, who is this guy and why is he just needling me on every single thing? And again, it's like I said earlier, it's tough not to take it personally because this is your job. You know, we put so much time and effort into the work that we do. So to have somebody say that you're doing it wrong is frustrating and. And can feel personal. But, you know, after that moment, I took the extra time and was vulnerable with him. And I think, in turn, he was honest and vulnerable with me, and I understood where he was coming from. And don't get me wrong, it wasn't necessarily like a total kumbaya moment. I mean, we agreed to disagree and a few things philosophically, but overall, it was a great meeting. And I would see him in the community all the time, and I recognized him and he recognized me, and it was. It was. It was a good relationship. And I think that was kind of a turning point, both for us trying to get a new project passed, because he was a strong voice in the community. So if he had, there was a modicum of support from him that went a long way. And also it was a turning point for me professionally, just in terms of how am I communicating and why am I communicating in such a way? That was one strategy we used. I shouldn't even say strategy. It just felt right. It felt like we should be bringing people in and talking that may have that kind of problem. But you know, I will say from a strategic standpoint, you know, the way we use our budget presentations, how our capital plan aligned with our budget, and just the transparency through our board public sessions, I think really was a game changer for this most recent $27 million project. Now you may be doing the math in your head. You're like, why did you go from 36 to 27? Well, we, we pared down the project. One of the drawbacks of having a failed bond is as time moves forward, so does inflation for most of the time. So we can't do as much with the dollar back in 2018 as we could have in 2021. So both paring down the scope of the project and just inflationary pressures made us kind of whittle that down. But anyways, so we really changed our approach to how we were communicating this project. Because it wasn't that we were talking about it in a silo, we were talking about it in conjunction with the budget, which sounds so obvious, right? But the way it's set up in New York, there's different funds and one doesn't necessarily have a direct impact on the other, but it does in the long term. When we're financing and we're borrowing and issuing bonds and bans, there is direct implication on our budget. So we were again having budget presentations, but also layering in the capital project or the proposed capital project with that to demonstrate that we've thought about this stuff. So we, you know, at our district, and if any of you have seen me present before, I'm a big long range financial planning proponent. It's one of the things I really enjoy doing the most as a school business official and one of the things that I encourage my colleagues to do again in the state of New York. It's not a mandated thing, but I feel like if you're not looking into the future with your finances and you're building a budget one year to the next, you're really setting yourself up for some potential issues, things that you may not be seeing down the road. However, we, we're, we're demonstrating that it. Our long range plan is in five years, but this is a 15 year financial commitment because we bond for 15 years because it matches our state aid. But that's a New York thing, but we kind of layered all that in. So even though we are building out our budgets for the next, our operating budgets for the next five years, we know that 15, 30 years down the road what our debt structure looks like. And I think that once the community saw that we were talking about it in public. Not that we didn't know this. I mean, we knew all this behind closed doors, but we had to be more transparent about it because we needed to show that. We're telling you this isn't going to impact your taxes, but let me show you how it's not going to impact your taxes. So we were able to fit this into our debt structure where we're not having to raise additional money from our taxpayers to pay for it. We just can slide it in from debt falling off and it works well for us. So being able to demonstrate that in real time, live to, to the public and to the board, I think really helped too. And also, as I said, building that into just our overall budget process was, was a huge game changer for us. We, we weren't just the only ones saying that this is how it works and you have to trust us. We kind of put our money where our mouths were and said, okay, let me walk you through how this works. And again, similar to my grousing over the facilities planning committee and having to walk through the really detailed government accounting and strategic financial planning that we do, it made sense to do that and take extra time. So we had some late nights at board meetings. I will admit I think my effectiveness starts to exponentially wane after 9pm so may have had an extra coffee or Red Bull just to prepare for that, but it was worth it because we were able to crawl out of this just sense of failure and frustration from a failed bond to really gaining momentum and support from our community was palpable. You could feel that, you know, as you talk to community members at events and things like that. There was a lot of energy and buzz around this upcoming capital project. And we also, we didn't just rely on us. It wasn't just myself and the superintendent as mouthpieces for this project, but we called an expert. So it was our architects, our construction managers, our financial advisors. We did all of that not only to help articulate really some of the minutia pieces that I am not an expert in, but, but we did it to build credibility with our community because we wanted to try and demonstrate that it wasn't just the superintendent and the assistant superintendent shilling a project to the community and saying we need to do this because of X, Y and Z. We wanted some really third party objective opinions as to why this was the right move. Now I didn't give too much history on our facilities, but just quickly. We haven't had a real facilities upgrade in a couple of decades. So our infrastructure was waning. The parking lots were in disrepair, the brick and mortar H Vac, everything. When I say everything needed to be addressed, I'm not exaggerating. Everything needed to be addressed. So. But we were able to bring in experts in the field who work on other capital projects. They're not just our architects or our construction managers, but they have experience across different facets of the state. They were able to articulate to the board and to the community why what we were choosing to do was priority one and not a want, but, but a need. So that, that was just another strategy we used to, to really drive the point home why a project was so important. But part of the issue was was really managing that risk in a time of uncertainty. As I mentioned, I'm so tired of talking about the pandemic, but in this context it is still relevant. I started here in August of 20. We were going to vote in May of 21. In the spring of 21, there was a lot of things were starting to open up and come back to normal. But really the uncertainty was still around the cost of construction and labor and the shortages of, of materials. So we were doing this balancing act of trying to be conservative with our budget but not being too conservative because A, we didn't want to end the project with all this extra money. And just the worry was like we were just going to start coming up with stuff to do and we didn't want that to be a reputation of ours. We wanted to be very strategic about the work that we were going to do. And B, we also wanted to make sure that what we said we were tasking ourselves to do, we were able to do it within budget. Because once we set that budget we can't go a dollar over or we sacrifice some state aid that is helping pay for the project. So we, I think we struck a good balance. It's kind of funny. So the project that we did was $26 million or $27 million that we just wrapped up and we broke it into three phases because a lot of it was building envelope. We were doing a lot of H Vac work and we did this beautiful renovation of our high school library area and teacher commune area. It's really impressive. If you want to take a look at it. Briarcliffschools.org, we're really proud of it. We think it's one of the more modern spaces in our area. We've had a lot of schools come through and take a look at it for some inspiration. Just very proud of it. Students love it. Great, great feedback from staff. It's cool to see something on paper truly come to life. Like you're standing in a CAD drawing from your architects. But I digress. But we were really focused on really trying to get this project across the finish line. And we were able to demonstrate just really how dilapidated our buildings were and just all of the work that had to happen. I mean, we literally had water coming in through the ceilings every time we had heavier than light rain. It was embarrassing. I mean, we're a high performing district and our community is amazing. Our students are absolutely fantastic. So to subject them to having water come in through the walls and the ceilings when they're trying to study is just, it was too much. So, you know, one of the things, we were estimating the costs and we felt pretty confident about it and oh, I remembered my original point, so I will come back to that. But we were able to kind of go through the budget with the community. And we didn't go into grave detail in public session during board meetings. We did in the facilities planning committee. But that same community member I was just speaking about earlier, he was saying, well, why is the cost of roofing so much? I have a guy who does roofs who said he can do it for like half the cost or something like that. But you gotta be able to hold a poker face and hold back your eye rolls. Because as I mentioned, I don't think he was factoring in the cost of materials, EPDM roof, rubber roofing, the prevailing wage provision that we have to abide by. I mean, there were so many things layered in that drive the cost up. And I mean, if we could just have Joe Schmo up the street do the roof and do the exact same job, like why wouldn't we do it? But you know, that's not how schools operate. So we were able to kind of dissect some of those, those poking holes of our, of our argument in public session because we were armed with it and we kind of knew what we were up against. But I think this has kind of been a way big tangent to my earlier point when I went on about this project. But the interesting point about the financing, when we were trying to strike a balance between being conservative and not too Conservative, I will say as much as you plan and as much as you try to predict what's going to happen, sometimes luck is a factor, and you can't bank on that. But it's always nice to have some luck. And what I mean by that is. So when I said we broke our project into three phases, so phase one came in $2 million over the phase one budget. Now, if we could absorb that in the other two phases, fine. But this was early on. I mean, this was the roofing part of the project. And I was like, oh, man, this is not a good sign that we're $2 million over budget. But, you know, we'll do as much as we can. And if as the project moves forward and we bid out more phases, we may have to scale back what our design is and what we're looking to do and maybe kick that to another project. But then phase two literally came in $2 million under budget. There is no way that I could have predicted that. I don't think there's any way that any of our architects, cms, fiscal advisors, no one could have predicted that kind of one for one sway. And that's what I mean. Like, sometimes luck just kind of works in your favor. And we honestly, we got lucky. I mean, it's. It looks like financial jujitsu from the outside maybe, but we really, we just got lucky. I mean, there's, I think, just the timing of when the roofing project happened and the tail end of COVID And by the time we were ready to bid out phase two, which was a $12 million component of a 26, $27 million project, that the economy started picking up, and I think supplies became more readily available, labor was more readily available. So just timing, again, luck and timing can be things that you may have a little bit more control over timing, but luck, you know, who knows? So, all said and done, we were able to complete this project in three phases. We just wrapped up this past January of 25. We have a couple closeout items still, but for all intents and purposes, the project was done and we were under budget over overall. So it was. It was crazy because even though we were $2 million over budget in phase one, we netted out in phase two. So again, can't really plan for that stuff. So our. Our strategy was to do as much as we can in the order it was presented because we didn't want to redo the interior of our schools while the roofs were still leaking. So obviously, we wanted to make sure we did the roofs. The Right way. And then we'll kind of move indoors and do all of those upgrades. So that was a lesson learned. And again, it's nothing I could have controlled. It really was luck, but we got lucky and we kind of rode the train as long as we could. So it was a really great experience. It was one of the smoother capital projects I've been a part of. It was smaller than a lot of projects I've worked on, which probably had something to do with why it went so smoothly. But I just have to say, hats off to our board and our superintendent and our community for just all being on the same page. Along the way, it has made me a better professional. It's given me hope that you can turn things around when maybe it doesn't seem like there is light at the end of the tunnel. Because like I said, our jobs can be challenging, and we're the only ones that really kind of know about it. So I love that we have a community like you listening today. Like, we have an ASBO International across the globe. We have people that we can lead on. But this experience has taught me a lot about school, business, leadership, and really how you can turn the ship around. Although our ship is more of a behemoth than maybe a speedboat. So long as you're kind of pointing the ship in the right direction, you kind of keep cruising and you have your true north. I think that goes to show that almost anything can be done, but you just have to have patience. I think you need to be vulnerable with yourself and be honest with yourself in terms of maybe what you do cannot be necessarily copy and pasted. If you choose to maybe move districts or if community sentiment changes or boards change. I couldn't just copy and paste how I did things from my previous district to where I am now. I had to kind of relearn. I mean, I had to relearn the budgeting because the way we budget here is very different than the way we budgeted in my previous district. Which is funny, because even though we have a uniform standard accounts, and everything in New York is supposed to be very similar, there's room for interpretation. And that was ever apparent when I. When I moved into this role. So I hope that maybe my story of this project has inspired you a little bit to kind of maybe attack a problem a little bit differently. I certainly had to, and it was challenging at first, but I think now I know a little bit better about myself, a little bit more about my community in terms of what their expectations are. But trust isn't built overnight, but it can be lost in an instant. I mean, that's something that we, we learned the hard way back in 2018. But as I sit here in 2025 and I look back on what we were able to do over the past couple of years with this successful bond, I'm really excited about what we're able to do in the future. I mean, like I said, we have decades and decades of lost work because we had a trust issue and a transparency issue with our community. So I'm hoping we can continue to ride this momentum into the future as we look to build a new project. But. So I'm super excited. You know, we're already looking at getting the band back together and having the Facilities Planning Committee reassembled, maybe with some new faces this year. But I mean, we're looking at going out to bond and, or, excuse me, we're looking to do work in July of 2028 and we're looking at putting the Facilities Planning Committee together as early as this December in 2015. But you have to, you have to have that kind of forward looking mentality because when you get a lot of people together, there's going to be a lot of ideas and we're going to have some constraints in place. So where it's not all pie in the sky, but you have to be very purposeful about the work that you do. I think you have to be honest with yourself and take the time to listen to your community and their wants and needs. And my last piece is you also, as challenging as it are, as it can be. And I have to take my own advice sometimes, but try not to take a lot of this personally. I don't know that many people in the community always know what goes into your work as a school business official, but it also isn't necessarily your job to explain every little nuance to what you do. But I think if you're able to kind of separate the emotion out of it and just keep that true north and working in the best interest of kids and being transparent about your budgeting process and being transparent about how the decisions are made, I think they can only serve you in the long run. And that's something I had to learn the hard way again, and not having to take things personally. But it all paid off. And again, as I said at the top of the episode, all these things are cyclical. I will have my time in the sun to get beat up again, but I'm savoring it while I can. And I hope you have an opportunity to savor the good times because, you know, realize that you're in the good times when you have them. Don't think about how good it used to be because again, these jobs are cyclical and we might find ourselves really struggling. But you know what the beauty in that is that we have each other. We have this organization that really brings all of us from different backgrounds together. And I couldn't imagine a better opportunity to lean on one another than to utilize your state affiliate, asbos, your ASBO International. This podcast. Hopefully if you enjoy listening, share it with your friends. But thank you for tuning into a little bit different of an episode the this week. By no means is this solo episode because I was too busy and was struggling finding guests. No, no. Totally, totally thought this was like a solo episode worth soloing. So just kidding. But thank you everyone for tuning in. Love the audience here, love the support and the feedback. Always Rate Us subscribe on School Business Insider, on Apple, Spotify, wherever. Listen to podcasts and I will catch you next week. Thank you for tuning in to School Business Insider. Make sure to check back each week for your favorite topics on School Business SA.