A (3:09)

That's great. And how long do you see this task force kind of operating for? Is it kind of a really specific venture in terms of maybe a year? Is this kind of an ongoing thing where members will cycle on and off? What is kind of your vision for this task force?

B (3:23)

So the task force was put into place for a specific timeline. Basically, when they submitted their. The report to the board back in July, pretty much the task force kind of. I don't want to say it disbanded, but basically their work is complete. We have updated the election manual to reflect the changes that came out of the recommendations. And then one component that we put in the Governance Task force, that in January 1st of 2030, we would reconvene and take a look at the progress that's been made to see that if we were able to accomplish the goals that we set forth as part of.

A (4:06)

Our work, that's great. And so, Lynn, from your perspective as co chair, what were the key goals the task force were set out to achieve?

C (4:13)

What we really wanted to do was create a fairness and equity across the board. There's some affiliates that just did not have the ability or the state support to run a board member. So they felt that they were kind of left in the dark. They didn't have the opportunities that maybe a state that had the state support and had the ability to raise the funds to run a candidate. It felt like there was some inequities there. So we wanted to make sure that we gave a chance to all, anybody who wanted to run for the board of directors. So. So fairness and equity were very, very key parts of this whole process. We talked about regionalization. That was a big topic. And the participants of the Governance Task Force, we were split on looking at regionalization and maybe electing from regionalization. We had some very robust discussions. But we did come to a semi agreement where basically we are going to look at regionalization. But for now, we're going to move forward and have it on the back burner. We may look at regionalization come 2030, but at this point we decided that we're going to move forward and look at the. I have it, the matrix and the actual capabilities or the experience of the board member that wants to run. So we were lucky because we really had a robust participant list. I know Jim and I and Siobhan sat down and we went through who we wanted to be on this governance committee. We wanted all voices. We wanted past presidents, we wanted executive directors, we wanted conversations that challenged us And I thought we had a really good group of folks because we did have some robust conversations, which was really good because it made us look at another view that normally we wouldn't look at. So I know I grew from the whole conversation, from the whole committee, and I met some pretty cool people there too.

A (6:47)

That's awesome. Can you tell me a little bit more about the regionalization conversation? Like, what does that look like in terms of running for a board seat and what were the advantages or disadvantages that were kind of discussed in that robust conversation?

C (7:01)

So the regionalization is, do we have board members from the Southeast? Do we run a board member from the Southeast? And what if somebody doesn't run for the Southeast? So we looked at areas of the United States, but then what do we do about our international folks? I mean, there was a lot of conversation in regards to what if an international person doesn't run? How do we represent the international portion of that? So there were pros and cons to both sides. And Jim, help me out, because I think you have a better understanding of the pros and cons more than I do. I do know that the big conversation was the international folks. We don't want to, we don't want to disregard them, but we also understand that ASBO is Canadian and United States. That's their big bulk of their, of their conversations. So, Jim?

B (8:04)

Yes. Yeah, let me, let me just add a little bit. So, you know, historically, there have always been these little coalitions throughout the US Where Midwest would run a candidate this year. Typically the Midwest would always run a candidate every year, and they would always try not to run against each other. And then you'd have people coming in from the east and the West. But through our study efforts, we determined that there are some, definitely some underrepresented areas, such as the Southeast in particular. So we had a lot of conversation around what regionalization could look like, and as Lyn said, a little challenging. When you represent our Canadian friends to the north, we also have international representation. So we talked about, well, you could have an international spot. But then we started having some deeper conversations. When you start to think about creating a competency based board and to get the right leaders in the right positions. Regionalization doesn't necessarily address that competency piece. It could, but it doesn't necessarily solve for it. Then we had a lot of conversations around, well, where do you break the size of the affiliate? Affiliate out? Is it based on a certain number of members, a certain number of students? And then shouldn't we be thinking about well, I'm from a rural district versus a suburban district versus an urban district. There were so many different diverse factors that came into play. We decided that it's best to maybe, rather than formalize it as a regionalization, this creates some guidelines and strategies to work with our affiliate executive directors so that we can encourage members from underrepresented areas to step up and serve, which we'll talk a little bit, I'm sure, later, about the eligibility. The candidate eligibility matrix is to create greater opportunities for all members to serve and then have that conversation with their executive director. So maybe we're not lining up three and four years out, but we could maybe try to recruit someone from the southeast to run for the board.

A (10:01)

It's a good point. Just because somebody is representative of a geolocation doesn't necessarily mean that's what you're looking for. Right. So trying to force the location into the candidacy isn't necessarily the golden ticket. So that's a really interesting perspective and kind of to that. Sharon, as someone representing a state affiliate, how did you see this initiative really aligning with the needs of local ASBOs and their members from statewide?

D (10:27)

Well, I think it's. For one thing, it's clarified the process. It's made it much easier. I've been the exec for 28 years, and I'll be honest, I always found the election process, how people got nominated, when they get nominated, I found it very confusing. So I think this clears it up quite a bit. The other thing is from being from a small state, we just never really had the money to run a candidate. And I always thought, you know, if somebody wanted to run, I would kind of be like, where? Where am I going to find the funds to be able to support them between the travel and that? So I really think this process makes it a more level, even playing field for people. So if somebody came to me and said, I'd like to throw my hat in the ring, I'd be happy to support them because I think there's a lot of possibilities and a lot of opportunities to make your position known and get yourself known by some of the things that they're doing from the result of this task force. I mean, it was so nice at ACE to see the candidates up on the stage, and it also gave you an opportunity then when you saw those people throughout the conference, to go up and talk to them. So I think that was a really good opportunity. So I think this is going to make it a lot easier for better representation where, you know, you'll have folks from, from smaller states being willing to run. So I think it's, it's going to be very good.

A (11:48)

Yeah, I was going to say, I mean, I know Connecticut is small and mighty. You don't have a huge staff and a lot to put a candidate forward. And there's a few other states that are in your, your boat. So have you in the past five, 10 years felt underrepresented and Aspen International? Has it been challenging to get like a Connecticut business official in front of others in international and run them as a candidate?

D (12:11)

We never have. We, we had a candidate back in, I think it was 1980, so in the 80s before I came on board. So we have not run anyone since then. So I think. And I've had some outstanding folks, you know, past presidents that I would have loved to have had them, and I think they could have done very well moving up through the representation, but we just didn't have the funds to be able to do that. So I think this is going to be, going to be great. I have several people that I can think of that I would love to have them consider doing it because it's a great opportunity. I know I've gained so much through ASBO and being the AEDG chair at one point and sitting in on the ASBO board meetings. I think there's just so much that can be learned and so much that can be done from it.

A (12:59)

That's great. It's great. And so, Jordan, over to you. What made you want to be a part of this process and what unique experiences did you bring to the table with this task force?

E (13:08)

Oh, I don't know if I brought unique experiences, but I think the reason I wanted to participate one is because when I get called upon by an association that has served me, I just feel a need to return service. And so that was part of it. But I'm also a person who does not lack for opinions and, and I came into this process with a lot of them. And I think having AEDG in the same room with us, having practitioners, having staff, like, I think the process was done really well. So I don't think that I brought anything unique other than just a practitioner's lens on it. And as a person who has run for my state board a couple of different times, once as zone director, I'm currently the president elect and who has aspirations in the future to run for the ASBO International Board. It, it just, like so many others have said, it's always felt like, well, I don't know how to Even engage in that. I don't know what this process is over here on the West Coast. It feels often, not just with asbo, but everything that we are like an afterthought of our country. Like, just look at our country's history. It mostly exists on the East Coast. And then us West Coasters came along. We're like, what about us? So that's. That's kind of how it's felt. You know, I go out to national conferences and everything, and it, in the process, just helped me realize that everybody kind of felt the same way. It's because, you know, we were just talking about Connecticut, that's East coast, and. And folks from Connecticut didn't know how to engage. So I think this is not the question you asked. I'm getting into the process as far as the unique perspectives and experiences I brought. I don't know that I have any other than I've served in small districts, large districts, and now an esd. And so I guess through that, maybe that's a little unique. But the reason for joining was just to get. Gain a better understanding to voice my opinions about where I thought things could be different. And I'm just gonna. I'm not gonna bury the lead on this one. I'm just gonna tell you that, like, every great idea I came into the committee with was not a great idea. And so I think that's one of the big things about committee work like this. The more you dig into something, the more you understand that there's a reason things get done the way that they get done. And so I'm really proud of some of the work we did along the margins. And I think that was the appropriate place to go was along the margins, not a complete overhaul of the system. So I answered a few questions you didn't ask. I'll cut it off there.

A (15:54)

No, that's great. That's great. So I'll throw this out to anyone who'd like to answer, but how did the task force ensure that voices from different regions, backgrounds and affiliate sizes were included? I mean, to Jordan's point, some affiliates, some members may not even know where to start, just in their ASBO International membership. So how did this task force really ensure that anybody who had an opinion or some input to really this process overall was heard by the committee?

B (16:20)

Well, I can start. You know, when we recruited the candidates to serve on the committee, we tried to take a look at our footprint and make sure we had representation not only from the different roles, meaning practitioners, affiliate execs, board members, staff members. But we also wanted to make sure that we had regional representation on the group. We want to make sure that the small affiliates were represented. We wanted to make sure. Like for instance, Terry Hass served from sasbo, coming from a small state. She served many years ago on the board when I was on the board. So we took a look at it from that perspective. But then once we completed our work, then we also sent the report out to all the executive directors and the past presidents and asked them for their feedback and their reflection. And we got some great feedback, which ultimately a lot of those suggestions that came in are reflected in the final report that was shared with the board. The original candid eligibility metrics, or matrix was a little different. It was probably more heavy, asbo, less affiliate. And so we changed the structure a little bit to make sure that we were recognizing the individual experience they brought at all levels.

C (17:41)

I'll just follow up with Jim. This is not a perfect plan. It never will be. It's a working document. There are going to be changes in 2030. There may be changes before that, but once you have a plan, I think the goal is always to improve on that plan. To improve on that plan. There are going to be some things that we did not think about that other affiliates may have thought about. So I don't consider this the final, final plan. I consider this. It's always going to be a draft in my head because we're always going to be changing it and making sure that we represent everybody. And I just want to say, Jordan, don't sell yourself short. I have learned so much from you and I just appreciate your voice and your opinion. So please don't sell yourself short.

A (18:29)

Yeah, usually if you have a lot of opinions, you're not modest. You just throw them all out there. That's great.

E (18:37)

I do want to say, I think, to respond to your last question, John, I think the way the process was designed, I started to talk about this a minute ago. I think that was a big part of ensuring that we had equity of voice and that we had a lot of different voices represented at the table. And when you think about a process like this, in an organization like this, what it means to have diverse perspectives is a very large spectrum of things. And so rural districts, urban districts, ESDs, school districts, of course, regional things. We, we had diversity in race and ethnicity. We had diversity in the amount of time we've been involved with school district work, school business work. And so I just want to give kudos to Jim and Lynn for the process that they Designed. And then there was a gentleman who facilitated some of our meetings, and I want to make sure I'm giving him his flowers, too. Can one of you remind me who that was?

B (19:38)

Was it low Applebaum?

E (19:40)

Yes. Thank you. And so the way the meetings were facilitated as well, we had a lot of members, we had a lot of ground to cover in very short amounts of time. And we did some work with breakout groups and really targeted questions. And so the meeting facilitation, I think, was a big part of it as well. To ensure that not only did you can design the process. Great. And you can invite the right voices to the table, but if you don't have an opportunity for every voice to be heard, and not just to be heard the first time, but then to be able to dialogue back and forth. So I honestly don't really know how you all were able to accomplish dialogue in a group that large in such a short amount of time, but it happened. And so I think it really comes down to the design process that happened to tee the committee up and then the facilitation that happened throughout.

C (20:33)

I have to give kudos to Jim, because there were some times where ideas were flying all over the place. And by the next meeting, Jim had that all documented in a very readable form, and we understood what we all said the last time.

A (20:47)

I have to battle sometimes.

B (20:51)

I think one thing that really made the committee, it really helped this committee through, was all the work that was done at the Vision 35 level. There was a lot of work done with governance, which really served as the foundation for where we picked it up and took it to where we are with the governance task force. So it was really. So even when you think about the number of people that was involved in Vision 35, it was even a much larger group. There's been a lot of feedback throughout the association as it relates to governance in general.

A (21:24)

So Lyn had mentioned that the regionalization was really a heated discussion. Were there any other major debates or challenges that pushed the group's thinking along the way?

E (21:34)

I don't remember what the thing was, and I'm hoping Sharon can help me remember. One of the great ideas that I brought to the table would have been impossible for the executive directors to do. And I don't remember what it was, but we had quite a good discussion about that. And I just remember appreciating the conversation and having AEDG in the room with us so that they could kind of put the guardrails in place that we needed.

D (22:03)

I don't remember what it was. But I was impressed with the collaborative nature. I know we'd, you know, somebody would mention something and I think, oh, no, I don't think so. But then as they explained it, oh, you know, you kind of changed your perspective. So I thought that was, it was such a respectful way and it was one of those things. You threw an idea out there and you didn't, you didn't hesitate to do it because you thought, well, if it's a dumb idea, it's a dumb idea and you know, you move on. But I just was impressed with how collaborative and respectful everyone was. And it really gave me a chance to change my perspective and my idea changed my mind on certain things and how I thought I might, thought, well, maybe we should do it this way. And then the conversation goes, you say, no, I think, I think they're right. It should go this other way.

B (22:49)

I think the other thing. There are a couple other areas that I want to, I don't want to say they got heated, but there was a lot of conversation. Budgets and fundraising, the amount of money that's being spent, the parties, the off site receptions. I think there was, I think originally there was this thought that maybe ASBO could control some of that and we really can't. You have certain rights to run. We can't control whether you have an off site part. We can control the space that we have under contract. But if someone wants to go out and rent a bar or a hotel lobby or a restaurant, we can't control that. We can't police that.

A (23:27)

Sounds like it's those crazy parent fundraisers we have at school districts, you know.

B (23:32)

Right. But I think that conversation led to some great results in that. But there are some things that we can step up and talk with our affiliates about. Like the times we used to have the joint receptions where all the members would come together and they would showcase their affiliates with a certain color shirt. So we've kind of identified some areas that we would like to get to in the future where maybe we could help coordinate some of those events. As somebody had mentioned, I think it might have been Sharon might have mentioned or Jordan. I can't remember now exactly when we had the candidates on stage. Candidate visibility and access was huge. So how do you give that candidate as much visibility, which is once again what led to this pathway to leadership. Matrix is trying to identify all those different areas that would allow a candidate to 18 months prior to the election to get that visibility that they're looking for without having to spend a lot of money. And travel around. I think the other thing that we discussed that had some pushback is limiting the amount of visitations someone could go on. Once again, ASBO International can't control that. If Wisconsin ASBO wants to invite three or four people to their conference, we can't say no to that. Now what we can do is say that you're not a candidate until your application has been certified. But we talked through all that, and I think the result that we came up with is a good starting point. I think, like Lynn said, this is going to be a work in progress. We're going to continue to evaluate it and tweak it, and if we have opportunities to improve it, that's great. And hopefully in January 1st of 2030, we will find maybe greater representation from some of our underrepresented areas.

A (25:26)

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C (26:09)

Well, I guess during my candidacy, I guess it was. I spent a ton of money visiting all of these states. I think I was gone. There was one. One month I was only in the office one day a week, and the rest of the month I was out visiting states and trying to get my name out there. And so I guess when. When we talked about the governance process, Sharon, I was like you. I didn't even know how to run for this, you know, this thing called asboard. So I relied heavily on my executive director, who was new at the time, but it was difficult to navigate what you were supposed to do. The governance process that we created here, I think provided clarity for the states, the exec directors, and also potential candidates. I pride myself on clarity in my job. When I'm talking to the school board, to the community, I think it's absolutely imperative that we be clear and transparent when it comes to our members, the AEDGs, everybody involved. And I do believe that this process Actually provided that because everything is on the table. There's nothing hidden in the closet before. But we did find Jim. And you have to talk about this. The old report from back in 1982, was it? Yes, yes.

B (27:49)

I don't remember the specific date, but we were able to resurrect a document where there was a committee or a task force pulled together many, many, many years ago to study regionalization and to study the whole governance process. And their finding was pretty much what we came up with, that regionalization just didn't make sense at that time. And that's kind of our takeaway just to try to figure out how you can put on a map. And I'm sure there are associations out there that do it. They have various quadrants that you could. You could create regionalization. We just felt that that might not be the right answer for us right now.

A (28:26)

Right. So this has been an ongoing discussion for many, many years at Hasbro International.

E (28:31)

Well, I was just going to say one of the things, I can't say that I found it surprising just due to my board work here locally, but I think something that would surprise potentially a lot of people because I didn't know this before I started serving on boards, is that these boards are, I don't want to say working boards, but they. I think part of the impetus behind, and I think Jim may have mentioned this kind of in the run up, but part of the impetus behind looking at how we go about getting board members was that we need a certain diversity of competence on the board. And so we can't just. This is where I think some of the. And I think this kind of goes to your question about like where some of the heated conversations were at. It wasn't heated. I agree with everybody else. I mean, it was incredible process and just yielded so much learning. But like, I think there are people like me who came in and I'm one of the people who was pushing for the regionalization because I was thinking geographic representation as I came into it. And then as we started to talk through all of these other concepts about what the board needs to do. Well, if every region puts together a person or puts forward a person who is just really strong in accounting, ASBO isn't just an accounting organization. And I think we all know that because the job of a school business official is not an accounting job. And so to have nobody with operations experience, nobody who understands the national school lunch program, different things that our members are dealing with and relying on us to help them with every day, then we end up running the risk. And I would say the probability that we become an organization that's very myopic. And so through those conversations, I think I was probably one of the first to relent on the regionalization. It's like, oh yeah, that doesn't make any sense. What we need out of our board is not just a geographic representation. And as you start to try to articulate it too, you're like, well, why would geography really even matter all that much? It's not like ASBO engages in Oregon's chart of accounts or something. One of these hyper specific things that is just state to state. And so I think that, that I think a lot of members would find it surprising how much a board needs to be competent in the day to day life of a member in order to govern the organization effectively.

A (31:12)

Yeah, really trying to strike that cross section effectively is really the goal, not necessarily where physically people are located. It's a very good point. So let's talk a little bit more about the recommendations and the outcomes of the committee. A couple of you had alluded to it earlier, but some of those significant deliverables from the Governance Task Force were the candidate eligibility matrix and the Candidate Visibility Engagement Guide. Can you walk me through these tools and how they're going to be used moving forward?

B (31:41)

Yeah, absolutely, John, if I may, I'd just like to reflect a little bit on what Lyn said. So I found the report. It was August of 1988 and the task of the committee back then was to study the election process, study the makeup of the board, study the possibility of changing the actual election and the study of questions about regionalization. And it went on to report everything out and the recommendations. And the interesting one on regionalization, it came down and it said the committee does not make a recommendation for an election plan that will assure regional representation on the Board of Directors. It did say that it's extremely dis. It was extremely difficult to decide where the lines would be drawn. So this is not the first time we've heard about it and it's probably not going to be the last time we discuss regionalizations. But it was really a good read from back in 1988 just to know that we're continuing to revisit some of the same issues. But on the point of the candidate eligibility matrix, what we really tried to do is prior to changing the election rules, the requirements to get elected to the board were simply you had to be a member, I think, three of the last five years and attend three of the last five ASBO International conferences. Well, when you think about it, does that really make you a solid candidate? What about all the other things that people do? Not everybody has the luxury of coming to the conference. What about all those that have done virtual presentations or have written articles or served on committees? What about all the work that they've done in their own affiliate? So the whole idea behind the Pathway to Leadership was to come up with a points based system. We picked 100. We kept the mandatory requirements at 50 points, meaning you have to be a member for three years, you have to have your employer endorse you. You have to, if you're not getting endorsed by your affiliate, you have to at least have your 50 signature. Your 50 signatures from the voting members. What we added and those were all in existence, but what we did add was the requirement to have board service, to serve a minimum of two years on an affiliate, nonprofit or a school board, some sort of governance experience. And then the other part was then that we wanted to see at least 25 points be gained from their experience with ASBO International. Whether that's holding a leadership role at the committee level, earning the sfo, attending an annual meeting, a leadership forum, an Eagle institute, presented a seminar, and we even gave them credit. If you submitted a session and it wasn't accepted, at least you took the effort. Posting blogs or participating in the Global School Business Network, applying for an award, winning an award, a COE recipient, an MBA recipient. So we really tried to make it a well rounded experience from an ASBO perspective. We also would not allow them to stack us. If you went to five conferences, you don't get 50 points. We really wanted that diverse perspective. But then the, the rest of the points, I mean they could, they could earn 50 points if they wanted to from ASBO International. And the reason that we did not put a point minimum at the affiliate level is that not every member has an affiliate. So, but we did leave it open so that there are 25 points that could be earned at, at the affiliate level. So if they don't, if they can't earn more than 25 at Asbo, some of the same things they did at the affiliate level, I wrote articles or I presented a conference, I won an award. So it was really the goal was to once again focus on a competency based board that comes with a wealth and a very diverse background of leadership and participation either at their affiliate level or ASBO International.

A (35:40)

And so how do you, these two outcomes, how do you see this parlay into the board election process being more transparent and inclusive?

B (35:49)

So I think the other piece to that was the recommendations. The candidate visibility engagement opportunities is by upping the filing deadline to 18 months prior, it allows those candidates to get more visible with the membership by, you know, it started this conference with bringing the director candidates that will run in 26, to take election in 27, to be introduced on stage and to go to the exhibit hall and have Q and A time. So it really is about providing more visibility for those candidates. Well ahead of the. Before the deadline was the July prior to the election. So now by at least backing it up, you know, 18 months prior to the election or the. Or yeah, or I'm sorry, July prior. Because before we didn't do any introductions at the annual conference. The election is held before the conference. So if I file in July, then the election is already done. I don't really get any face time with the membership before they have to vote on me. So part of that visibility, part of the recommendation number one was to provide greater opportunity for, for those individuals to get involved. So some of what we already do is we provide dedicated webpage on the ASBO website, we do their candidate bios, we put articles in the magazine. But then there's some little things that we can do if we can work, and we haven't done this yet because we just rolled this out, but maybe providing spotlight videos to the candidates, podcast interviews well in advance, pop up meet and greets. I talked about some ideal things that we would like to do if we can continue to grow ASBO International's budget. I would love to go to the board and say, can we put some money aside for a joint reception of our members so that we can all come together, collaborate together and maybe we come up with some sort of a request that some affiliates could chip in to the, to the cost of that and then just, you know, quick wins for the candidates is to engage as a thought leader, write articles in the magazines, be active on various webinars and seminars. But once again, a lot of it is the collaboration that we want to do with the affiliate execs. I talked earlier about how people lined up to run. Right now we don't have anybody that has announced to run in 2027, which is very unusual. I'm telling you. They've been lined up three and four years out in the past. So, you know, we're hearing rumblings about that. But once again, I think it's a conversation we can have with the affiliates to try to get some of those underrepresented affiliates to submit a candidate into the future.

A (38:42)

So why do you think that's the case? That there isn't a line waiting for candidacy? Has it just been years of just maybe an ambiguous process and people not really sure what to do and when? And is that kind of come to fruition now in the past couple of years? Do you maybe see that changing now that the process has changed and there's more transparency?

B (39:00)

Well, let me give you my perspective and then I'd love to hear from the rest of the group. I think two things. I think the time element, the things that they're dealing with in their own school district right now is creating challenges to leadership. And I think the other is just the structure. And what is the ask. You want me to volunteer? What is it that I'm doing? What is my role on board? So part of this recommendation is to create job descriptions for each of the board positions so that if I do decide to move forward, I know specifically what my role is going to be as a board member. And we're even doing the same thing for volunteers. We haven't really talked about the volunteer side yet that's going to roll out first of the year as part of our committee manual. But it's really about providing opportunities for members to serve in short term capacity or long term capacity, but to define the role so they know what's expected of them when they decide to come forward.

C (39:55)

I also think that when. Well, in the past, when you ran a candidate, that's a huge expense. When Jim talked about the candidates getting out in front of of the election and meeting the members and being visible and answering questions, the only way we could do that in the past is by going out to the states and meeting them in their states. And that is a very expensive endeavor. So I think as this process or this plan is rolled out and introduced and understood more, I do think that we will have more candidates that will be willing to run and serve on the board. But I agree with Jim. The demands of our jobs right now are extremely heavy and the uncertainty of everything, nothing is consistent. And all of a sudden you have another job that's put on your plate. So the time is concerning you. I absolutely love asbo. I cannot, I cannot even imagine three years ago, all of the people that I have met and all of the resources that I now have in my back pocket. I don't think people think of that when they decide to, when they're making the decision to run for board or not. But ASBO is an incredibly diverse and knowledgeable organization that is invaluable to me and my district of, you know, 1100 students in Central Wisconsin. So I think as we, as we promote asthma and how and as we talk about the value of being a board member and actually the change that we can, we can, we can institute and instigate, I think we'll get back to those people that want to run and have great competition. So that's my hope.

E (42:08)

I don't want to speak for everybody, so I'll just share my own experience, which is this is a very big job and the jobs that all of our SBOs are doing is. It's a big job in a really difficult time. But I also have kids and I don't want to miss soccer games and volleyball games and things like that. And when I went to our executive director to talk to talk through the process of running, I very much appreciate Oregon has a really strong history of putting candidates forward. And so our executive directors, have they got like a plan, you know what I mean? But they're like, this is what it looks like. And I didn't want to spend the time away from my family right now. My kids are in middle school. So I decided I'm just going to wait until they've moved out of the house and then I'll go down this road. But beyond that, and I think it's probably a thing a lot of people don't want to say out loud, but it's true is the optics of it. Like we are an incredibly interesting time when it comes to labor relations. And so like one of the boards I serve on here in Oregon, it's not the OASBA board, it's another organization that serves K12. There's a national conference for that group and they, they would like their board to go to this national conference because it focuses on governance and things like that. And I'm like, and they'll pay for it. And I'm like, I cannot go. I can't do out of state travel right now. So I did not go to ASBO this year and I didn't go to that one. And it's because at our state level we have our governor telling state departments no out of state travel. And most people don't understand the difference between locally governed organizations, but also government funded travel versus a nonprofit funded travel and all these different kinds of things. And I just don't want to get into it. And so it's like this is not the time in life right now where I can be traveling all over the country to try to get name out there. And things like that. And so I just very much appreciate the committee's focus and the ideas that they generated around how we can create candidate visibility in 2025. It's crazy to think that somebody would need to spend, as Lyn was talking about A minute ago, 20 working days a month outside of their office so that they can run for a board. Like, we live in a time where we can communicate ideas and we can communicate actual videos to people so they can see our face and they can hear our voice and things like that. And so I just. I really appreciate what the committee has done. I think it has made. I think those changes have made the process far more accessible. And so I do look forward to running for the board in the future and not traveling all over the country to do it, although I would love to travel all over the country, but that's beside the point.

A (45:12)

You got to come to the East Coast, Jordan. It's where everything's happening.

E (45:15)

You know, that's what I'm saying. So that's the accessibility piece of it. And then I think I also just wanted to touch on the Matrix, which I think the Matrix is probably going to get just sort of overlooked by everybody except for those who want to run for the board. But I think that's some of the most critical work that came out of this committee, because as we really boiled down to why we all came to the committee with opinions about how we thought governance needed to change, that matrix is what solved for all of it. And not perfectly, as Lynn said, that's just not possible. But it gave us a framework, a rubric to ensure that the people who are running for the board are quality candidates that are going to serve the board well. And that gets us to a place where we don't have to start micromanaging what local executive directors are doing with their groups, what local affiliates are doing where we don't have to micromanage boundaries and artificial borders that create all kinds of their own problems. But we end up with a board that's representative of our membership and is able to competently serve our membership.

A (46:23)

Right. Very well said.

C (46:25)

Okay, I just need to clarify. I had a blast my 20 days out of the office.

A (46:33)

Make no mistake. Lynn wasn't complaining.

C (46:35)

She was just making.

B (46:39)

I think the other thing that I hope is accomplished through the Matrix is identifying other opportunities to serve and lead. As Jordan said, not everybody has that luxury to get away and to serve on the board. But this awareness. Well, maybe if I did look into it and I realized what has to be done to run. Something clicks there. Well, what if I did this? What if I got on a committee or what if I led a presentation? So I think the awareness, and I hope with what we're doing with our reboot of our volunteer efforts is also going to help to let people know that there are other ways to lead and govern. It doesn't have to be at the governance level if you're not able, but there are other ways that you can lead and we welcome you.

A (47:28)

So as we wind down here, I'll open this up to anyone. For those listening who want to get more involved with ASBO governance or committee work, what advice would you give them if they're listening today?

E (47:38)

I'd just say do it. I think people think that there's like some special. Jim mentioned it earlier. You know, the classic adage is that it's a good old boys club. I think people think that there's some special pathway you have to follow to become involved in the organization. Again, speaking of another person here in Oregon who has made my path a lot easier because she's just helped me get out of my own way as Cherie Lewis, who has been serving on the board and was serving on the Legislative Advocacy Committee before that. And she's plugged me into some different opportunities once she found out I was interested. And so I would say if you don't know where to go, that's a different question. Of course, ASBO International's website has a lot of resources about how you can get involved with committees and things like that and staff people that you can get in touch with and to express your interest. But find somebody else in your local affiliate who has served at the national level and just ask them how they did it. Once you start talking to those people, you realize this isn't a complicated thing. And once you start volunteering, then people will ask you to volunteer because they know that you're ready to show up. I think at the state level and the federal level or the national level, international level, whatever you want to say, what I have experienced is that we are always short on people to help out with this kind of stuff. And so if you're listening and you're thinking, well, surely there's people with more experience than me or, or who have more connections than me or whatever, just know that that is not the case. There is, there is zero argument to be made that I'm the most competent person in Oregon to be serving on these committees, let alone in this country. And so the reason I'm serving is because I've made myself available to serve. So if you. If you have that desire to serve, find a person who has served in the past who can help you find the places or just go to. I believe it's ASBO.org is the ASBO website. Go to the website, start poking around. There's stuff in there. There's the ASBO international community where you can go out and you can ask questions. I think that's a heavily underutilized resource. So, like, just do it. If you have a desire to be involved and to just dip your toes in the water because maybe you want to run for the board someday or maybe you don't, just do it.

A (50:01)

It's great. There's always an opportunity. I mean, I showed up with a microphone one day and look at me now. So, you know, it could do anything.

C (50:09)

I would also say that we as business officials cannot do this job in a box anymore. We need each other. And in order to find those people, I think you need to grow your network, and I think that's what ASBO does. And, Jordan, this is for you. Everybody has something to offer. No matter who you are, no matter where you are, you always have something to offer. So. And I agree with you, just do it.

D (50:39)

I would just follow up that at the recent ace, I had several folks attend it for the first time, and several of them said to me how great it was to build that network. I mean, we have a very close network in Connecticut. Everybody knows everybody pretty much to go there and hear the perspective and what's happening beyond our small state borders that, you know, big states are having the same issues as we have. And they just said it was a great opportunity to broaden their perspective. So I think if you can get involved in an ASBO committee again, it broadens your perspective, it broadens your network, as Lynn was saying. And if people have questions on how to get involved, there are ASBO affiliate executive directors. We can help with that. We always, you know, if somebody comes to, hey, I'd like to get involved, I know who to, you know, contact at ASBO and say, hey, I got a willing volunteer. And, you know, and it's a good opportunity to test the waters to see if. If they, you know, if they like serving on it. And it's also an opportunity for ASBO to see is this somebody who shows up and does what they say they're going to do.

A (51:42)

All right, Jim, I'll give you the final word.

B (51:45)

Yeah, I would just say for those that are listening, that may have been previously applied for a volunteer position and was turned away or failed to receive acknowledgment. I apologize. We heard loud and clear in the ellipsis report through the survey that that has happened. We are working to create volunteer opportunities. We may not always have a slot on every committee because some of our committees are specific with a certain number of people that can serve. But we also have opportunities that it's unlimited. So I can tell you that if you want to serve and you want to apply, we will find a spot for you. It may not be the committee that you want ideally, but that doesn't mean if you don't get the first time, you won't get the second time. But we will find a place for you to serve at ASBO International. So if you want to serve, if in doubt, reach out to me. My email is jroann r o w a n sbointl.org and I will personally respond to you and we will find a place for you Right.

A (52:47)

Well, thank you all for your time today and more importantly, your work on the Governance Task Force. I'm excited to see all the changes be implemented and all the great things coming to ASGO International. So thank you again.

B (52:58)

Thank you.

D (52:59)

John thank you.

A (53:02)

Thank you for tuning in to School Business Insider. Make sure to check back each week for your favorite topics on school business.

B (53:12)

Sam.