A (3:07)

Yeah, for sure. And, you know, anyone who tells me that they come from a family of educators, I always ask, you know, not being in the classroom is one thing, but, you know, diving into school finance is another. But do you feel that had you been in the classroom, would that have made your kind of transition into school finance, kind of broaden your scope in terms of the impact of the role, or were you able to kind of glean a lot of that information from your family of educators and kind of marry the operations to the educational components?

C (3:36)

Yeah, I was able to bring that from my past experiences, you know, from growing up and helping my mother as a first grade teacher, put up the bulletin boards and all of those kinds of things that went on. And I've carried it forward. My father had. He passed away, let's see, 24 years ago. And it was one of the things that I'll never forget that it was at the visiting hours for his funeral, we never sat down because every single employee of that small district came to thank our family for the impact that he made on their lives. And it was. It was the bus drivers, it was the custodians, it was everybody. And I made sure that I carried that over into my daily work and that I don't forget anybody, because everybody's job in our school district is just as important as everyone else's. And sometimes I say, even though I've got a lot of responsibility, if something goes wrong, I go to jail quicker than somebody else. But their job is just. But their jobs are just as important. To get the kids to school safely on the bus, to get them fed in the lunchroom, to educate him in the classroom. It takes, you know, it takes a village. And so I've. I've always. I've always carried that with me in every decision that I. That I make.

A (4:43)

That must have been an inspiration to you just to see the impact that your father had and, you know, not. Not just a job, but really an impact in the community and just really a beacon of bringing that community together. That.

C (4:54)

That.

A (4:54)

That's awesome. So. So, Tara, kick it over to you. You're the Director of Fiscal Services at Northwest Regional ESD in Oregon. Tell us a little bit about your journey. What brought you to where you are today?

B (5:06)

Sure. And just for anyone out there who doesn't know what an ESD is, we're an educational service agency. So in New York, I think they call them bozies. So they have different names for different states, but we're all the same thing. So I was working in for a private school district, and I was doing their finances for a private school district. Actually, I was doing accounts payable and payroll for a private school district. And then my cousin actually was working for the esd, and she suggested they had an opening and she suggested that I apply at the esd. And so I started out in their accounts payable department. Then I went on to payroll. I proceeded to get my bachelor in accounting after I was working. And so it was fun time. I was, I like to say I was a part time wife, a part time mom, and, you know, went to school full time and worked full time. So then, yeah, eventually I came, became an accountant there, and then eventually the Director of Fiscal Services at the esd. So. But I appreciate what Scott had to say about how your perspective on everyone's important. Right. I think that we need to treat the janitors and the custodial staff just like you treat your superintendent or principal. Right. We shouldn't be treating anyone any differently. They all have the same impact on students. And I think that's important to keep in mind.

A (6:45)

Yeah, that's a great point, Tara. Great point. You know, when you. When you think back about, you know, your career in the private schools and then into the esd, you know, I think that gives, I would assume, some really nice perspective in terms of what the requirements are of kind of education as a whole, but maybe different factions of it. You know, I will say from my own conversations and relationships I have in New York, and you had mentioned the BOCEs, it can be very different working in an individual school district versus a BOCES or an esd. Has that been your experience when you hearken back to your days at the private school versus what you're doing now? And how has that kind of rounded out your experience in school finance?

B (7:27)

Well, so one of the things that the ESD does is we contract our business services out to some of our smaller rural component districts. So I spent eight years, I think, as a business manager for some of our smaller remote school districts. So I. That gives me a different perspective. And then as well as working for an educational service agency. And also, I wanted to say part of the reason that also pulled me into the ESD was that my son, I have four kids, but one of my kids had a learning disability. And so that gave me another perspective and appreciation for the esd. He struggled with ADHD and dyslexia, and going through that with him then really made me appreciate what the ESD can offer our students and our school districts.

A (8:24)

Well, and I think both your individual stories have one piece that really shares, is that our work, although is work, there's a very personal component and human component to it. And everyone I speak to on this podcast seems to relate to that, whether it's their own personal experience and how they can relate to their family, to their educational experience, or just our network as a whole. I mean, it's very people driven. So those are great journeys. And you obviously have a great wealth of experience and will be great candidates. So with that, I'm curious, how did each of you really first become involved in ASBO International? Scott, you and I were talking offline. You've been involved with Ohio for pretty much your entire career. But I want to kick it back over to you. What really got you involved at the international level?

C (9:17)

Thinking about this. It goes back, gosh, wow, 25 years. So now I'm like, you know, showing my age in this because I've been, you know, like I said, for those that can't see me, I've earned the gray that I wear on my face.

A (9:27)

Well, Scott, you know, you said you the ugly duck, and you're a beautiful, my man. Don't. Don't sell yourself too short.

C (9:33)

Okay, give me more of that, John. No, I'm just kidding. But, you know, I was part of a leadership academy that we did for the Ohio association of School Business Officials. And, you know, thinking about it, and I won't say his name, but our facilitator at that time, you know, he told me that I was going to make an impact at the state and national level. And now the details to me are still a little fuzzy, but I may or may not have called him, told him he was crazy at the time. So for me, like, you know, reflecting back on that, I'm like, wow, He. He saw things in me that I hadn't, that I didn't see in myself. And, you know, I'm just, you know, I'm just coming off of nine years of serving on the board of directors for the Ohio Associations of School Business Officials. And so I'm, I'm always looking for ways to continue to give back. And it really. It started with professional development. You know, I was looking to grow and connect beyond my. The local circle I had, you know, in our state and asbo's mission to empower, advance, and unite the profession, that resonated with me. So I wanted to attend conferences, learn quickly to, you know, get deeper engagement, learning, leadership opportunities, you know, ways to serve the profession. And, you know, and for me, it's been so rewarding to be able to connect with such amazing professionals like Tara and others that want to give back to our profession and school business. And, you know, we all have. We're all over the country, but we have more alike than we have differences. And it's. I mean, maybe it's a little therapeutic to go through that and talk through those things, but it's just. It's. We're stronger together.

A (11:03)

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And I think one of the aspects of our profession that I appreciate the most is that we're not in competition with each other. Like, if we were in some kind of private agency trying to compete for business, we here to, you know, make students the. The best people they can be. And we do that all together. To your point, whether it's in our state or across state lines or internationally, we're all helping each other out. And that's something that I've come to really appreciate and love about. About school business and just really education in. In general. But Tara, same, same question to you. How did you really become involved in. In ASBO International?

B (11:42)

Similar as Scott, I was involved with our local asbo, and then also they had started up a new Business Manager Institute. And I was just going into starting as, like I had mentioned before, as a contracted, contracted business service for one of our component districts. And so I joined the New Business Manager Institute. And I think it was just beginning in Oregon then.

C (12:11)

And.

B (12:12)

And we. I think I was the second cohort to go through that. And then that kind of opened up things for ASBO International. I joined the Education committee. Well, I went to my first. I think I went to my first ASBO International Conference in 2016 in Arizona. I think that was my first one. And then after that, I was like, all right, I'm hooked, right? Like, this is. Yeah, yeah. And so, yeah, so they joined the Education committee after that and just have been involved that way. And I've been to every ASBO International conference since, except for during COVID because we were not allowed to travel out of the state, so I missed that one.

A (12:56)

So you Are ASBO International committed. That's awesome. So you gave us a little bit of how you got involved with ASBO International, but I'm curious, what role has ASBO International and even your Oregon asbo, how has that played a role in your professional development and really how maybe you flourished as to where you are today?

B (13:21)

Well, it's definitely opened up more opportunities for connections and like you were talking about, we are a very collaborative group. We have a collaboration across our Oregon chapter as well as the international, you know, the ability to collaborate with folks on the website and yeah, I think just really opened up different opportunities for me. Well, I also have a podcast now, which I would not have had, had it not been through ASBO International and, and meeting my co host through there. So, yeah, a lot of great opportunities.

A (14:01)

And.

B (14:01)

And that's also when somebody suggested, you know, that I join the board for ASBO International.

A (14:09)

So, yeah, it's so funny how it just kind of naturally progresses. I mean, if you think back to when you were first starting out in your private district and someone's like, you know, I come from the future, Tara, and you're going to be hosting your own podcast, talking about school business, you'd probably be like, what are you talking about? Like, what's a podcast?

B (14:25)

Yeah, I was like, what? No.

A (14:28)

Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. And then, and then, Scott, I mean, again, we were talking offline a little bit, but tell the listeners a little bit more about how maybe now ASBO has played such a vital role in your professional growth as a school business official.

C (14:42)

Yeah, and it's funny, it's, you know, I could say ditto. You know, it's the same thing. It's like it's increased those opportunities. It's broadened to my perspective. We've connecting with peers, you know, locally, nationally, internationally. It's. It's forced me to expand my leadership skills to places that maybe I wasn't comfortable at the time, but they, they pushed that. So it helped me grow and kind of deepen my understanding of, you know, school. School business operations, you know, school governance, advocacy, those kinds of things. And it just, like I said, I've been doing this for a while, and the more you go through that and you get, you volunteer or you're voluntold, you know, it helps prepare you for that next step. You know, we're in education. We're lifelong learners. Like, you know, I'm not ready to. I'm not done yet. You know, so it's always looking for that. Where can I get that servant Leadership type of mentality of where can I help you? The profession that we serve more.

A (15:40)

Yeah, yeah. So, you know, you may not be completely in tune with what's up, what you're up against running for ASBO International. But for those listening who may not be entirely familiar, what does the ASBU International board actually do for, for its membership? Scott, Maybe you're whoever, you know, whoever's most comfortable, kind of maybe jumping in there.

B (16:01)

Well, I think one of the most important things that, that they do is identifying priorities. Right. Like the long term goals and major initiatives that, that we feel are important and then also that fiduciary oversight. Right. Understanding and ensuring responsible stewardship of, you know, members, dues and resources.

C (16:25)

No, I mean, I agree with that. It's like thinking of our own boards, you know, that we serve in our communities, but at the state doing that. It's for me it's all about kind of strategic governance is what I think of when I think of boards. And you know, it's, you know, it's like it's setting direction, it's setting, you know, looking at the stewardship of the organization, overseeing the professional standards. And then with asbo, it's different than our locals because now it's not just state legislative advocacy, it's now federal legislative advocacy advocacy. So that's, that's a big piece that's different but it's just, it's making sure that the long term vision is there and that, that that ASBO is working across the country, across the globe, but also creating those connections and fostering with our state affiliates too. Because I think that's, that's a piece that, that I'm trying to strengthen in my role.

B (17:12)

It's very similar to, you know, our school boards and that they also evaluate the superintendent, we will also be evaluating the executive director. And then another thing to remind folks of just like in your own boards, our role is not the, to manage the day to day operations. Right.

A (17:30)

Government. Yeah.

B (17:33)

The big picture. Right. Or at the high level.

A (17:37)

Yeah, exactly. I'm also curious too. I had the privilege to serve on the Vision 35 task force and it was really looking at the long term trajectory of ASBO International. Really leaning on some studies that have been done in the past to mold our future. And one of the themes that came up is that one of the priorities is that ASBO International isn't ASBO North America, it's ASBO International. So really trying to reach across the globe to include all business officials. So I'm wondering, Tara, I, I'll start with you. What, what, what do you think that means for you as. As a board, on the board of directors? Like how, how do you engage our, our international community outside of North America?

B (18:20)

So I think it's all a lot about listening. Right. To others and, and then also just engaging with folks that are not always, you know, in North America, but across our international region. I think, most importantly.

A (18:39)

Yeah, Scott, what's your take on that? What do you, what do you think your role is in really making it truly an international organization?

C (18:46)

Yeah, it's respecting the diversity of our members. It's, you know, yes, we're in, we're in the US but there are folks in the uk. There are folks in the. And I remember one of my first early ASBO conferences that I went to, and I was able to spend some time talking with David Ginsburg from South Africa, and they're just some of the most profound conversations that I've, that I've had to just understand the challenges that, that he faced in his country, in his district, that were so different from the ones that I experienced. So it's learning from those, hearing what those issues are and keeping those in the back of my mind when I'm making decisions, because those decisions that might work for me and my district might not work for the entire membership. So it's being open to, open to that, understanding, listening, and then acting upon that.

A (19:35)

Yeah. One of the things I've realized most, just being a part of Asthma International for most of my career and now doing this podcast for a few years, is that even though we may be in different geographical locations or different government structures, when you really boil it down to what we're doing at a regular basis, it seems that all of our issues, problems, and potentially solutions are very similar. One of my favorite episodes I've had on this podcast was with a gentleman in South Korea. And I didn't really know what to expect. I didn't honestly know much about South Korean education. The structure is very different than the United States and maybe Canada, but when we started kind of peeling back the onion, it's like, oh, you have to deal with capital construction projects and you have to deal with leaky ruse, and in making sure that athletic fields are ready, it's just, it's a. It's a lot of the same thing, just some different bureaucracies and governance. So it's, it's really, it's really interesting and really fascinating that we could be thousands and thousands of miles away from one another, but really kind of dealing with the Same kinds of issues on a regular basis.

B (20:39)

Well, I think that's. That. That's the, you know, thing that brings us all together. Right. Is the fact that, well, some of the aspects of it, you know, will be different, but the majority of it is we all have the same issues and problems and financial resources are limited and people are limited, you know, those kinds of things.

A (21:01)

Yeah, absolutely.

C (21:02)

Yeah. We're more alike than we're different. It's just.

B (21:05)

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

A (21:07)

Yeah. So I now want to know, I mean, you've both served in great capacities and your state affiliates. I mean, you're obviously very heavily involved in your work and a lot of extracurriculars, ASBO related. So why. Why ASBO International and why now? Scott, maybe you could kick us off.

C (21:26)

Yeah, John, we were chatting before we started, and, you know, I've done a lot of leadership positions locally at the chapter levels. I've just. Just finished coming off of our. Our state affiliate board of directors for nine years, which, when I say that out loud, that's a long time, but I'm not done. So now it's time for me to kind of shift my focus to a larger canvas. And it's really trying to figure out ways to continue strengthening the bridge between educational outcomes and financial stewardship. So I feel like it's the right thing to do for me where I am in my career, I'm ready to continue giving back, and it's. I enjoy what I do. It's going to be. There's a lot of time, there's a lot of investment that goes into this, but I feel that I'm ready for it. And in doing so, my wife's ready for it, too.

A (22:16)

That's important.

C (22:17)

Yeah, yeah. I mean, we're. We're empty investors now. We've got, you know, three kids at Ohio State University, so we've got flexibility. And where we are in our life now, to be able to do that and, you know, expand that a little bit and so still give back professionally. So very excited. Great.

A (22:33)

Tara.

B (22:35)

So, honestly, I hadn't initially planned on running. That was not like something that I had initially thought about, but I had multiple colleagues and mentors encourage me to consider it, and I was like, what, me?

A (22:48)

No.

B (22:49)

And so that really made me pause and reflect for a bit to think about, well, is this something, you know, people are suggesting it. Maybe I should give it a little more thought. So it made me realize that when people that I respect believe that I'm ready, that, you know, maybe I need to realize that I'm ready. Right. And so it also felt like the right time. Like Scott was saying, we're empty nesters also. We've had the boomerang children, but now they're all out of the house. So we actually are empty nesters for. For the right now. And then also with Cherie, who was on the board from Oregon, stepping down, there was a natural transition point right there as well. So the opportunity to continue that strong representation from Oregon and build on the leadership that she had already established, and then it also came down to the service. Right. ASBO has had a significant impact on my professional growth. And so serving on the board just felt like a meaningful way for me to give back and help shape the future of the profession.

A (23:59)

All right, so your mentors and your colleagues obviously saw a lot in you and you have a lot to offer. So tell me a little bit more about what perspectives and experiences do you feel that you'll be able to bring to the board level and really add value to ASBLU International?

B (24:13)

Well, I feel like for me, it's the perspective that I've had of a small rural school districts as well as a larger organization of the esd and then also the perspective of an educational service agency. I think those things give me different perspectives that maybe everyone out there hasn't had. So I can relate to, you know, the small rural schools as well as the larger school districts out there, and as well as also the ability to listen and leadership.

C (24:50)

So, yeah, and Tara and I didn't plan this this way, but it's. I'm learning more about her through this because I've had some very similar experiences. My first district, I had. We had two buildings and 900 kids. I knew all 90 staff members, their spouses names, their kids names to also serving in the largest district in the state of Ohio. So I've, I've seen the small, I've seen the largest. I've done those. I've. I've had my experiences at the state level for nine years. So I've been there, I've done that. But, you know, for me, it's really, the perspective is really focusing on continuing to expand professional development opportunities at the national level. Obviously, folk focus and increase our federal advocacy piece because public education, we all know everywhere, it's under attack and it's continuing to strengthen the collaboration between our state affiliates. So those are the, those are kind of the three priorities that I've brought. And that's kind of what I focused, you know, my, you know, my perspective going into this new role That's. That's what I'm focusing on.

B (25:53)

Yeah.

A (25:54)

Great.

B (25:54)

It's funny that you mentioned that, Scott. We've had a few conversations, but you and I have really not had a chance to, you know, connect a lot and share these different experiences that we've had with each other.

A (26:06)

Well, I'm glad you're. You're experiencing them live on a podcast.

C (26:11)

We're making as leaders, we're vulnerable, so we're putting ourselves out there.

B (26:16)

Yes.

A (26:16)

Love it.

B (26:16)

That's right. That's right.

A (26:18)

So as you were both kind of going through your perspective and experiences, you know, I couldn't help but kind of harken back to last week's episode with Christopher Smith in Texas at Katy isd. He's a chair of the Federal Advocacy Committee. And one of the things we were talking about is oftentimes it can be challenging to represent all voices across the association because to both of your points, there's really, really small rural districts. There's really large urban suburban districts and everything in between. How do you feel you'll be able to best represent all organizations in ASBO International? Because even though, Scott, you come from Ohio, Tara, you're in Oregon, really, you're representing all of ASBO International. So, Scott, we'll start with you. How do you see your role in doing so?

C (27:05)

And you're hearing the common themes from both of us. You know, it's really. It's that. It's that listening first. You know, we need to. To. To hear the diversity that our members and the districts that, the experiences that they bring. You know, we've got members and we've. Tara and I have both been in these. It sounds like that we've both. We have members in rural school districts, we have members in suburban school districts, large urban systems, and they all have unique challenges. So, you know, for me, the goal would be to ensure that every member has access to the professional learning, whether it's in person or it's online. You know, the advocacy support that ASBO has for us, you know, and the peer network that we need as we develop ourselves and helping develop our communities and our school districts. I think that's the piece. But it really goes back to that act of listening and understanding what are. What are the needs of our members are first.

A (27:55)

Right, Tara?

B (27:58)

Yeah, so I feel like I'm repeating myself again. But it's both the small and the rural districts, and, and as well, like you were saying, John, the, you know, larger urban districts. And then. So I've had multiple vantage points right from seeing those. And then I think that experience helps me appreciate the diversity across the states and the regions, national level. And I would pro approach that representation by, you know, carefully listening and seeking broad input and then ensuring board decisions reflect the needs of the entire profession.

A (28:36)

Great, great. You know, Scott, you had mentioned in an answer you just gave education lately seems to be under attack. I'm wondering what other challenges do you see kind of stepping into board leadership and on the opposite side of the coin, what opportunities are facing ASBO International right now?

C (28:57)

I think for Ohio specifically, because that's where most of my, obviously most. My entire career has been for us. The challenge is, you know, obviously public, public education is under task, under attack. But it's really the, the workforce development. We are really putting a lot of resources into increasing awareness about our profession. You know, we're building succession planning and mentorship opportunities because we just, we don't have a lot of folks that are, that are going into it because if you're not in it, you see how much we're under attack and people are going, why, why in the world would I want to step into.

A (29:33)

Never want to touch that.

C (29:34)

Yeah, right. And that's what's happening. But, but it's also, it also provides a great opportunity too, because now ASBO and the state affiliates can continue to position school business officials as those as part of the essential strategic leaders in public education. In the past, we were just the bookkeepers that just, you know, that kept things balanced and we ran the registers and all that stuff. But now we've, we've moved into a strategic visionary role, which is, which is critical. So I think that's put us, put us at the seat at the table, if you will, in our states and across the nation, that our voices are being respected and heard.

A (30:13)

And dear. Are you from your vantage point on the West Coast, I mean, are there any common themes in terms of challenges and, or opportunities that you feel ASBO International is kind of up against, maybe more unique to your side of, you know, the country?

B (30:29)

Well, I think it's, you know, a lot of the same challenges that we're all facing, right. Shortage of, shortage of resources. And then as well as the things that I see that we need to work on also is our succession planning and you know, as Scott mentioned, and, and the financial stability and education funding from the, you know, state and federal side. What can we do to, for that legislative advocacy at the federal level. And then, and like I was saying, with the succession planning, with many leaders nearing retirement, like Scott mentioned, he's got some gray hairs. You just can't see mine because I do blonde highlights, but there are some gray hairs in there. Right. So we will. There is a few of us that will be retiring. So what are we doing to help develop that, attract that next generation of school business officials? Yeah. And then navigating the uncertainties around education and.

A (31:33)

And financial stability seems to be the common thread. I mean, I know we it. It in New York, one of our priorities is again, that pipeline and that it. It just getting people away, not even just into the profession, but at least letting them know it exists. Because everybody knows schools are around, but myself included. Before I started doing this, I had no idea there was a business office, let alone a school business official. Right. I just thought it was a bunch of classrooms and a superintendent. So.

B (32:00)

And that's the thing that, you know, we. I've talked about. You talk to multiple people that are in the profession, and it's like, it's not like anybody says, oh, when I grow up, I want to be a school business professional.

A (32:11)

Right, right, right.

B (32:12)

I think that when they're a kid,

A (32:14)

people that knew about it before the age of like, 25.

B (32:19)

Exactly.

A (32:19)

And the thing is, too, is. Is part of the challenge is we've been having this kind of debate at our affiliate level is, you know, we can get in front of kids in college, but is it too late to. To bring that awareness? Because maybe getting into, like, high schools and letting them know that, you know, you can get into finance, but you don't have to go to Wall street, you don't have to be a CPA necessarily. There's a whole other opportunity out there that offers, I think, a really rewarding career and some security there. But we're just kind of trying to thread the needle in terms of how to introduce that to. To potential future business officials. It's just a tough thing to deal with.

B (33:00)

It's also interesting that I've ran into recently and some recent hires that I've had, and they wanted to work for a school district because they wanted to give back. Right. Not everybody's out there trying to get up the corporate ladder and, you know, make tons of money. A lot of our, you know, younger generation out there are looking to give back. They're looking to. For that stability and what they can do to, you know, give back to the community.

A (33:30)

So, yeah, absolutely.

B (33:32)

They're looking for nonprofits.

C (33:34)

Yeah, yeah. And John, that was one of the pieces I want to deal with. Our mentorship, like, for Ohio. We're now, we're doing job fairs in our local colleges and universities. And one of the things I've done, and maybe it's just because, you know, like I said, I was the one never in the classroom in my family, but I've. I work with our high school business and accounting teachers and go into those classrooms because a lot of these kids in Ohio, you know, you can vote at 18. So we have voters sitting there that don't have the information, the education that they need to make an informed decision, whether that's yes or no for whatever they're faced with when they go to the polls. So I'm going in and talking to them about what those things mean, to try to make them a more informed member of the community. So when they're forced with a decision like that, they know they have the information they need to make the right vote for them, the choice for themselves. And that's. For me, that's. I mean, that's the kind of stuff that's been so rewarding because then I get the. Then I get. Then I get the reward of getting invited to come back as like a. A judge on Shark Tank when they do it in the classes. So I get the fun. The fun stuff of that. And that's, you know, it's just. It's working with them. You know, it's the partnership, and it's. It's great.

A (34:43)

Yeah. And that. That awareness is. Is crucial in just kind of getting the word out there. You know, one. One thing that we did here with a local university, I'm an adjunct professor there, and we were just kind of brainstorming how do we get more students involved in school finance, just really getting their awareness up. I know every state is different, but at least for us, you at least need an MBA before you can get the state certification to become a certificated school business official. So we're like, well, why don't we. As part of the MBA program, you can minor in school finance and get that certification in tandem with your mba. And that has totally changed the game in terms of prospective school business officials coming down the line, because we created a new pipeline and a new opportunity that otherwise didn't exist. So I'm seeing that we're starting to get a little. Having to get a little bit more creative in terms of making sure we can backfill these retirements. Whether your gray hair is visible or you have black highlights, we need to make sure that we have people following everybody up. So I want to know, you get on the board and it's not A one year commitment. You got a lot of time ahead of you. So where do you see the school business profession really heading over the next five years? Tara, maybe we can start with you.

B (35:57)

Sure. I really think it's going to be defined by innovation and constraint. Right. So we've got AI technology that's going to transform the business office. Streamlining processes, improving data transparency, and allowing leaders to really focus more on strategy and not the transactions. Um, but innovation will be happening in an environment of limited and unpredictable resources. Right. Where we're going to be doing more with less, basically, which I feel is a constant. I feel like we say this every year, right? Like that, that when is it.

A (36:33)

When we can't do any more with less.

B (36:34)

I know, right? Yeah, exactly. So that tension is going to require school business officials to, to think differently. Right. Leveraging technology, reimagining staffing models, collaborating regionally and then advocating for sustainable funding. And then those who can embrace that innovation while staying grounded will lead the profession forward, I really think, and I appreciate it. Actually. John, I sat in on one of your AI webinars, so I appreciate that because that's something that we're, you know, really pushing forward in at our district. So I appreciated your webinar on that.

A (37:13)

Thank you. Yeah. I have a weird relationship with AI. I like it a lot, I use it quite often, but I've been. Not only am I hosting a podcast, but I consume a lot of them. And I think I talked about this in a previous episode, but there's this podcast called the Last Invention that's about three categories of people. The AI doomers who think we're just screwed and it's going to be an apocalypse. The scouts that are. We should push forward but be really intentional about it. And then just the ones that are just full fledged. No, throw caution to the wind and just go forward. And since listening to that, I'm like, oh man, this could be a total disaster if we don't get ahead of it. So it's weird because I'm using it every day, but I'm still kind of cautiously optimistic about it. But I think that's going to be a huge factor in terms of where the profession is headed and really just kind of education in total. But sorry, a little bit of a tangent.

B (38:10)

No, no, no, I, I totally agree on you, with you on that.

C (38:14)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm there with you because it's. We started doing some leadership training in Ohio about AI and I was, I was skeptical at first and then I, I jumped and dove into it. And I kind of feel like Cinderella now that I've gone down that rabbit hole and now I've, I've introduced my team to it and I probably spent half of my day being pushed further down the rabbit hole because they are so giddy about what it can do and the efficiencies that are there. Because it's like we talked about before. It's really, you know, this profession is where we've moved from, you know, balancing budgets and the technical stuff to be becoming, you know, embracing the innovation, as Tara said, becoming more strategic leaders. It's all about having the conversations about long term sustainability and risk management and operations and how are we going to do all these things with less resources? How do we get smarter? How do we work harder or work more smarter than not harder? We're having to find new ways to do things differently. And these next five years, as I think about it's really going to require a lot of flexibility, adaptability, leadership development, you know, and continuing to build those strong pipelines for, for new professionals coming into this, into this career, like, it's just, it is not an easy time. And you know, I just, and I'm, you know, like, like Tara, I was kind of pushed and encouraged to do this as well. And, and I'm glad that because we're, you know, for me, I'm my own worst critic and you know, having others say, you know, we need you, you're ready for this. You know, our profession needs your, your, your leadership. You know, I'm glad that, you know, that Tara and I answered that call and that, you know, we're like, we're, you know, we're up next, it's our turn because we're going to, because, you know, when we're done with this, we're going to be asking somebody else to do the same thing. And it's just, how do we continue to give back to something that's been so good? It's been so good to me.

A (40:14)

Yeah, that's great.

B (40:15)

Yeah.

A (40:16)

So, so as we wind down here, um, can you tell me what does service to the profession really mean to you personally? Um, I, I, like we kind of talked about earlier, our careers aren't just jobs. I feel like there is, there's a blurred line between professional and personal. And I'm just curious, when you think back on your career and what you have to offer to aspiring school business officials and now ascending to ASBO International, what does this profession really mean to you personally? Terrible. We'll start with you.

B (40:49)

Sure. So I Think for me, it means stewardship and responsibility. Right? It's about strengthening the systems and relationships that support our school districts and ultimately students, because those are. Those are the people that we're really here for. Right. It's about the students. So it's also about mentorship and succession planning. I have spent many years mentoring other school business officials in the region, and so we need to encourage other people to be mentoring and encouraging the succession, planning for the future, and so ensuring that that next generation of leaders leave the profession stronger than we found it.

A (41:38)

Great. Scott, what about you? What does this profession mean to you personally?

C (41:43)

I go back to servant leadership. It's really about the service. And it's not just the stewardship of our financial resources, but it's the stewardship of the trust that our community has left and has in us. Because really, it's always about keeping the students at the center of our work. And for me, the things that have been most rewarding aren't making the spreadsheet look pretty and balancing it, but it's going out. The thing I look forward to the most every year, and some people are gonna think I'm crazy, is the beginning of school and the end of the school year going out and helping for the two weeks at the beginning and the two weeks at the end and helping with bus dismissal and arrival. Yeah, I absolutely love it because I get to see these kids. And there was. There was a second grader, and I'll never forget this. We were. I was at her elementary school, but I was at our. One of our intermediate buildings earlier in the week, and she came up to me and I can't remember her name, and I wish I could. I could spot her out in the crowd right now if I had to, but she came up, she goes, you were, you were at the intermediate school last week, weren't you? My brother was there. We dropped him off. And I saw you helping us out, and I just want you to know I really appreciate that and that that's going to stick with me forever because I. Yeah, because it's just, it's an affirmation. You know, we do these things because that's what we do. But knowing that that one little thing that I did had an impact on a second grader, man, I mean, you don't have to.

A (43:09)

You make such an amazing point, Scott. And it's that, you know, we deal a lot with, with numbers in finance, in operations, but get out of the office. Go. Go see who we're impacting. Go see what all of those Long board meetings are for and why we're constructing new buildings and renovating and making sure that all the resources are going where they should. Get out of your office and go see why. I mean, you make such a great point.

C (43:32)

Yeah, that's. That's the why we do what we do. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

A (43:37)

All right, so now it's my last question. One of the things that struck me most when I first got involved in ASBO International was the. I don't know, just the. The level of campaigning when it comes to trying to get on an ASMO seat. Now, I know you guys, you know, you're running on a pose, but can I expect, like, a postcard or like a. Or like a koozie with your face on it? Like, what. Do you do any kind of, like, campaigning for these seats?

B (44:05)

I think because we're unopposed, there probably won't be as much campaigning as there's been in the past. Right. I don't know if we're going to have shirts with our faces on them or, you know, anything like that, but, you know, I'm sure you'll see a postcard or something. Candy or, you know, something.

C (44:22)

Yeah, I'm laughing, picturing my face on a koozie. That's just like. Oh, dear God, no. Yeah, no, but I mean, and really. And really, it's, you know, for the campaigning piece, it's just. It's not as much for me, but it's for the others that their time's gonna come. So, you know, what I would want folks to think about through this is when their time comes, just, you know, say yes. You know, say yes to getting involved with the committee. Say yes to helping on a panel discussion, a conference, a leadership role. You know, just, you know, your. Your participation, your expertise, your knowledge is so valued. You know, don't. Don't hesitate. You know, just jump in. You know, we've all done it. We're all here. We've got your back. You know, just. Just say yes to what we're doing. It's. It's. It's well worth it.

B (45:05)

Yeah, absolutely.

A (45:07)

Well, I wish you both all the luck in the world with stepping into these board leadership seats. And I know that ESBLU International will be better off with both of you serving. And I do. Tara, I. I want to give a special shout out. I know you had mentioned you host a podcast. SPO Perspectives is another wonderful resource for school business officials. So make sure everybody to tune in. She. She co hosts that with another school business official, but also another nice professional development piece. So. But at any rate, thank you both for joining me today on School Business Insider. And, and best of luck moving forward.

B (45:39)

Thank you, John.

C (45:40)

Yeah. Thank you, John. This is, this has been great, Tara. I'm glad to be going down this, on this path with you.

B (45:46)

Yes, absolutely. Same goes for me.

A (45:48)

Scott, thank you for tuning in to School Business Insider. Make sure to check back each week for your favorite topics on school business.