A (2:49)

Yeah. Do you find that, I mean, those, those networking opportunities really kind of help you not even transition to another district, but kind of transition throughout your career as you evolve and grow as a school business official? I mean, I do recall we exchanged some great notes and we had some very similar experiences. But as you kind of look back throughout your career, has your professional network really helped mold you as the leader you are today?

B (3:13)

Oh, absolutely. I was very early on in my career, I was mentored and guided by another school business official. She was. Had been a long school business official a long time in a neighboring district, a large district. And one of the things, when I first joined Fort Zumwalt school district, early on in my career, she advised me. She was like, get involved.

A (3:35)

Yeah.

B (3:36)

And so, you know, at the, at that time, it was our state affiliate, you know, going to the professional development and getting involved at that. At that level. And so that first interaction, that first introduction and meeting her was the first step of growing my network. She was the pivotal moment that then has helped cascade my career, my network. And no matter what district I've been in, I've always been able to reach out to people in my network for advice, to ask questions, to reach out, to just kind of weigh in on different topics and ideas and considerations. And for the most part, we learn. Right. We learn from each other. Education is not so different. It's different for you in New York as it is for me in Missouri. But all in all, we are trying to educate the next generation. Right. And so what does that look like? How can I learn from you? There may be things I'm encountering now, you've already done, you've already encountered, and I can learn from you as to what you've. You've grown through so early on in my career. And I would, I would highly encourage anybody early on as a school business. Get involved, get connected, find a mentor, find someone who can help guide you, but start building that. That network. It is very impactful as well as important, and I do believe it has helped me become the school business official I am today.

A (4:57)

And I think another unique aspect of our work is that we're not in competition with each other. So it's not like we're trying to eke each other out in a certain segment of an industry. We're all in it together, to your point, trying to prepare the next generation of students. And I don't think that's ever more Apparent than at conferences and things like that, because you sit in sessions and you kind of resonate with a lot of what's being presented because you've been through it yourself or you can see yourself being in that similar situation. Do you have the similar experience? Are you finding that just by nature of the work we're doing, the networking is just kind of natural?

B (5:34)

Absolutely. You know, one of the things we say a lot in education is we really don't. We don't steal from one another. We share. We don't want to reinvent the wheel. We all believe in efficiencies and we can learn from one another. And so being able to share knowledge and share tools and resources have been amazing. Learning about salary projections or asking. I reached out to Bob Saul a few months ago about his salary projections and how does he do this? And, you know, just being able to ask people and bounce ideas off of and thoughts. And I know you are a huge technology person. Right. And so you've presented a lot at asthma conferences on the efficiencies and forecasting and those kind of topics that I sit in and I attend. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, I could use and implement those kind of tools and resources in my world. Right. And make my. My school district better for the use of those tools, resources. That knowledge that I've learned from you and others that I've attended sessions for. The grant writing one I just attended in Texas was done by a couple friends from Wisconsin. And a lot of us, I think, struggle with grants. We can't just hire our own grant writer. Right. And so how can we maximize the opportunity of accessing grants when we can't just hire our own grant writer? So that was very informative, and it helped me bring back a lot of ideas to my district as to, okay, what kind of partnerships could we do? What could we look at in order to try to access more grant opportunities?

A (7:11)

Right. And even though it may be in a different state like Wisconsin, you're not reinventing the wheel. You're kind of inspired to say, oh, well, someone's already gone through this. These startup processes. For me now, I can kind of learn from my peers. There's no trade secrets, really. It's like, let's just help each other out and make our lives easier.

B (7:27)

Exactly. I do think, educators and school business officials are really all about helping each other out.

A (7:33)

And do you think, you know, back to your comment about your mentor. I think back to when I started as well. And I think it really depends, at least in My experience on who your mentor was or is and what their network and their connections are. And, and what I mean to say is when I started out, I had a few people that were already very involved in our local state asbo, which then kind of got me involved in committee work and state level, and then got me involved in ASO International. It's just, you know, it snowballs from there. But I see some of my colleagues who maybe had mentors or maybe didn't, but maybe those mentors didn't have as vast of a network or maybe didn't appreciate or get involved in much. And I think that has trickled down to them. And, you know, I, I'll see them every now and then, but they just kind of seem to be in their own bubble. Do you, do you see that as well? Has. Has. Did your mentor at the time really set your trajectory in the profession? And the second part is, you know, what, what, what are your thoughts on that? Do you see colleagues that maybe are kind of just isolated and they don't have that. That network?

B (8:34)

Yeah, I would say so. I was very blessed. So my mentor early on was not only involved at the state level, she was also very involved at the ASBO and national level. And so she encouraged me from that, from the beginning to do that. I would say it's challenging for most individuals, especially us accountants, auditors, wherever we come from and enter into this world in education. It's not necessarily. We're not social people. Right. Going out and everything else. So having a mentor, I think, is very huge. And to your point, the type of mentor you have, again, I was very blessed. She was active at both levels. I would say that. I know as our state affiliate has struggled with a mentorship program. Right. How do we, how do we build something that we can encourage our veterans, people like you and I, who've been in the industry for a long time, to be mentors to others. What does that look like? I know Indiana has a good mentorship program, but I do think state affiliates have struggled with developing mentorship programs to kind of help bring new school business officials into the mold and to get them acclimated and stuff. And so I would say I do see a lot. There's sometimes even at asbo, ace, just recently at Texas. I'll be walking by people and they're just, they're tunneled. They're not. They're not making eye contact and stuff and all. And I'm like, man, I attend every professional development I try to attend. My goal is to meet New people.

A (9:59)

Yeah.

B (9:59)

If I don't go away meeting at least five to 15 new individuals, then I don't feel like I've. I've really engaged in that opportunity. Right. So really taking the time, trying to get to know one another, trying to meet new people, because whether I'm increasing my network, I'm also trying to help them increase their network. And I'll take people and I'll introduce them to other people. And I took my drive.

A (10:24)

Can I use an example of how you've done that so well? So Aziza Gaev and I are now best buds because of you. You made that connection and we. We talk all the time. We actually just. ASBO New York just wrapped up their school business management workshop, and he and I did an all day AI for Business officials workshop pre conference workshop together. And it was awesome. And that probably never would have happened had it not been for you making that introduction. So thank you. And you're a great connector of people, I must say.

B (10:55)

I really try to do that. I took my director of finance, he's new to my district. We worked together in the previous district, but he took a short term at the Federal Reserve bank, so he's with me. So I took him to ASBO and I said, okay, John, I said, you know, be ready. I'm going to introduce you to a lot of people. And it was a whirlwind. He was like, wow and everything. And also I do really take pride in trying to increase other people's networks. One thing I really did appreciate about ASBO ACE this last fall was the fact that they did a mentor program. And so I signed up for it thinking, yeah, I want to do this, I want to give back. And I was paired up with a mentee, Angela from Oklahoma, and we did a zoom meeting before we went to ace, got to know one another, and I'm like, where are you from? She's like, well, I'm in Oklahoma. And I said, where at? And she was like, in Duncan. I said, wait, who's your superintendent? She was like, chana Byerly. I'm like, oh, my goodness, that's my eagle sister. And so then it was a whole nother level of, of, you know, that relationship, right? That mentor mentee relationship. And we became amazing friends by the time we were done with ACE and everything else. So I really do appreciate ASBO opening up that mentor mentee opportunity because I do think that's really huge for new people coming into the school business profession that we, whether we try to do it our states, try to do it or ASBO does it. We really need to take a more active approach and being mentors to those that are up and coming because there's not a lot of people in our pipeline. We know that in our pipeline, as well as teachers, accountants, podiatrists, name your profession, you know, there's not a huge pipeline, it seems like anymore. And so we need to be mentoring and really helping people build their network so that they can be successful going forward.

A (12:44)

So let's talk about our role in that. Cindy, what can experienced school business officials do to ensure that they're accessible to the next generation of professionals or maybe career changers that really don't know where to start or where to begin as a school business official?

B (13:00)

I don't know. There's so many variables, I think, to that question, John. I think, you know, being active at your state level first is key locally and at your state. So our state affiliate does local meetings throughout. And so being in attendance, being engaged when new people, I'm sure you've seen this, when someone retires or takes another job, there's a trickle down effect, right? There's a lot of movement and then a lot of people coming in new. And so just being able to be, be in attendance at the meetings, be engaged, like I said, talk to people, don't just go attend and leave. Really try to engage with one another and drive that conversation and those relationships. Being active on committees was huge for me when I started at moasbo. I just on the spring conference planning committee and getting to meet the people and work through, you know, the sessions. It's like it's the state version of ASBO ace. Right. So what's that, what's the sessions are going to look like? And all from that I grew into the conference coordinator. And then I really got to. I'm like, I would look for people at different levels, so I would look for superintendents, I would look for the business official, I'd look for the bookkeeper, you know, people from different areas to be on the committee to provide the different perspectives. Because. Cause I think that's a huge part of growing in our profession is learning from one another and learning from their perspectives. Right. Putting ourselves in different shoes so that we can give back to the profession the best way we can. And from that it just grew to the ASBO committees and getting to know people at a larger level from more states. Right. So Wisconsin, you from New York, my friends from Massachusetts and Texas and just being able to really broaden our horizons so that we can encourage, not only in my own state, but I try to encourage people from other states. So I don't know if I answered your question.

A (14:51)

You did, you did. And I just, I'll add on to that, I mean something that I do now that I'm, I've been doing this for over a decade and you know, there's, there's new people coming into the profession, but I realize that just being, try to be as down to earth and vulnerable as possible. And I think back to how was I feeling when I was two months into the job, having never done it before. And you know, I'm like the poster child of fake it till you make it. Because I didn't know anything when I started in school. Business official, my first district that hired me, God bless them, took a chance on me and I was pretty young starting out in the profession and I was excited, but also very anxious and intimidated. And I think back to that time and I'm like, I didn't have anybody really just to be able to share that experience because when I walked into the profession in my local area, I was the newest school business official. And everybody else had like, I don't know, like 10, 15, 20 years of experience. So I couldn't relate in terms of experience and I was just really intimidated. So now, I mean, anytime I'm doing a presentation, especially at our state as vote, I always try to get a sense of who's in the audience by doing a poll. And if there's a lot of newer people in there, I kind of change my tone and be like, listen, the stuff I'm presenting on today is only because I've been doing this for so long, like I am not necessarily. I wasn't an expert when I started. I still don't consider my, myself an expert necessarily. But you know, I think back to the presentation that I did at our local conference most recently and there were a bunch of new people that came up and I kind of went through that. Just, you know, the presentation was on, on change and change management, which will be this past week's episode. For those listening right now, I recorded a live session. It turned out pretty cool, but my colleague Ron and I, we just talked about like from our experience, just different ways to manage change and how to approach it. And I, I, you'll hear in the episode, like, I was very honest, like I didn't know how to manage some different scenarios that we were talking about. And I think that resonated a lot with the new folks in the audience. A bunch of Them came up and said, thank you. Thank you. I thought I was on an island. I was the only one that didn't know how to do this, so. And I always encourage people that are new, like, listen, what you're doing is. It's probably new to you. It's not new to everybody else. So everybody else makes it look easy. But I was sitting in that seat, you know, burning the candle at both ends, not really knowing which direction to go in because I'm getting pulled in so many. But I felt just being open, honest, and vulnerable with new people seems to resonate well. And that's something I wish that I had when. When I started out.

B (17:24)

I would absolutely agree with you, John. Not only being vulnerable, but being genuine. Right? So when I try to meet new people, I make it a point to try to know their names, right? I'm not going to just meet you, and then next time I'm not going to remember you or remember your name.

A (17:38)

Do you really kind of trick with that, remembering people's name? I am so bad with names.

B (17:42)

I really do. So when I meet you, number one, I'm going to say your name in my head three to five times while looking at your face, right? So I'm going to repeat it. And then anytime I have an opportunity, when I talk to you, I'm going to call you by your name.

A (17:58)

Okay?

B (17:59)

So those are just some tricks I do. I turn my head and then I say it to you.

A (18:03)

Because as soon as someone introduced their name, it immediately is out of my head. I got to be better.

B (18:10)

Well, that's a whole other episode on Active listening.

A (18:12)

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I could do a little bit better, but.

B (18:16)

But I do think. Because then, you know, that was. That was one thing John even said at asbo. Ace is like, I don't see. I don't know how you remember everybody's names. And I'm like, but it's important to me. I make it. I make it a priority to remember people's names because I want them to know when I meet you, I do care about meeting you. And I want you to know that I value you. Right? So it's. It's important. We need to be seen and heard, not just talked to.

A (18:43)

Did you have a. When you were starting out, do you remember, did you have a Cindy Ryleman of your own when you, when you started out that was so willing to reach out and make connections and, and help you along in your career? I mean, I know you mentioned your mentor, but as you got to know more people did you have people like yourself that really made those connections?

B (19:04)

Nobody really comes to mind like me. See.

A (19:11)

I'm sure you must have had, like, a couple people that, like, were extroverted and took you under their wing. I mean, do you remember anybody who was. Who made that difference for you when you first started out? And if not, that speaks volumes, because that's our jobs as experienced school business officials. Right. We should be doing that for the younger generation.

B (19:33)

Yeah, I'm really trying to think, because in all honesty, John, when I started, most of the individuals in our industry were men. There weren't a lot of women in our roles. And so I, like I said, I had some mentors and some good friends from other districts who I could reach out to and guide me and direct me. But were they the extroverts or the outgoing people that drug me around and introduced me to new people? No, I don't. I don't think that I've always been that person.

A (20:03)

So was that you? I mean, going back to that time in your career? I mean, how did you get past that if you were one of the few females in the profession? Was. Did you find yourself not being able to relate to the vast majority of those around you? I mean, did you struggle with a professional network? What was that like?

B (20:22)

You know, in all honesty, it was intimidating because I'll remember. I remember some of our regional meetings early on, and here I am in a room of men that were so smart. And, I mean, I just soaked up everything they said, right? And I listened so intently. And so for early on in my career, I really was more of an observer and just listened and a sponge for everything they said. I didn't say much. I didn't talk much because I just, you know, I didn't want to sound stupid. I didn't want to sound like I didn't know what I was talking about. And so I really just soaked up everything they said and everything on. Then as years kind of came through, more and more women became, you know, as part. And I got, you know, I felt like a little bit more of part of that network locally because we were all coming in together. Now a lot of us are retiring at the same time kind of a thing. But early on, it was kind of intimidating to be quite honest. And so I just really listened, observed, and tried to grow in as much knowledge as I could at that point. And then it wasn't until I felt more confident. Like you said, when we come in, maybe we're just trying to get our feet out under us and make sure we kind of know what we're doing on a day to day basis, let alone, you know, being part of a network. But when, when I'd been in for a while and I started presenting at local conferences and stuff and I'm like, okay, I know what I'm talking. When I started feeling confident, I think that's when I'm like, okay. And I really started branching out and creating that network and, and building it and introducing people to other people. And yeah.

A (22:14)

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B (23:18)

I would say twofold. First presenting probably took me six, seven years to make sure. I really kind of knew, you know, payroll, accounts payable, budgeting, you know, all the kind of things, as well as attending some ASBO meetings on meritorious budget awards. I really, really identified with that and really wanted to get my budgets in alignment with what the meritorious budget award is all about. And so as I got more confident and everything about that, those were kind of my first presentations. So I would say five to seven years for presentations. But I'll be honest, it wasn't until later in my career when I was on the editorial advisory committee and being part of that committee, you know, one of the expectations is to write articles. And I thought, oh my goodness, I don't, I'm not a writer. I'm, I'm a numbers person, right? I don't write. And so really creating that first article upon leaving Our first committee meeting and saying, oh my gosh, I can write. And I do have things to share and I want to share, and this is a good avenue for us to share with other members of our organization, our association. And so I felt like there were things I could share, but that was much later on in my career. Presenting was pretty easy. Right? You know, we did infographics, my communications person and I, we did a lot of infographics about financial information and stuff, and what does that look like? And presenting on that was easy. It was a transition to really sharing knowledge in a written form that was much more challenging and daunting for me because I just didn't. I still didn't know if I was really confident enough in myself.

A (24:56)

That makes sense too, because I think a large part of our jobs is presenting, especially when it comes to community and boards of education. So you kind of got the chops in your flow, but to take your knowledge and to put it into a thoughtful article can be a little intimidating. Not only because it might be new for you, but also it's going to live out in the Internet or whatever in perpetuity. So hopefully you put your best foot forward. But I would agree with you. I think it took me a while to get started in presenting to my state affiliate because it was just, it was intimidating, but I was able to present. But then to transition into actually writing something, long form or whatever in an article was kind of like that next segment. And it wasn't until the EAC where I'm like, okay, maybe I'll take a crack at this and write an article. And now it's not that it comes secondhand, but it's just the more you do it, the more comfortable you become?

B (25:50)

Yeah, once you know what you want to write about, then it can flow. But once you get over the intimidation of how to write or what it should look like or how to, to really present your thoughts to, that'll be meaningful to our members and the people who are going to read it. That's. That's where you want to take your time and make sure you're going to convey what you want to convey.

A (26:11)

Right, Right. So can you tell me about what you've learned from maybe some of your mentees or your peers that has changed your own perspective on leadership? I mean, we talk a lot about the importance of mentorship, but have you learned something from someone that you've been mentoring that you're like, oh, this is a fresh perspective, this is something new, or maybe even from a peer?

B (26:34)

I Feel like I'm always learning from people. If we give them the opportunity to mentor us, then we always can learn from them. Right? So I think that's the first part is allowing yourself to be mentored and finding the people that can do that for you. So, you know, like I said early on, people involved at the state and national level were that for me, for me, it's definitely helped define my leadership. I know for sure I would not be where I am today without the people who have mentored me and helped guide me and the network that I've built throughout this time. I wouldn't feel confident in what I'm doing and where I'm at. If something challenging comes up at my district, I can go on to the school Global School Business Network and ask everybody, or I can reach out to just you or Bob or Howie or anybody and ask, hey, I'm facing this. What have you guys dealt with? Or, you know, have you guys dealt with this? And what. What should I think about? So I know that my networks helped guide me, helped direct me, helped me learn a lot. You know, I've been doing this for 27 years, and I'm in a unique school district. We only serve special education students. We go into other school districts providing the staff to provide those services. And I'm still learning, you know, and other districts, when you're in K12 gen ed, you think about all the other general education stuff that you have to do and class size and everything. All this is more, you know, IEPs and related services and the needs of the students are driven by services rather than enrollment. And so it's just I'm still learning, and so I still reach out to people and, you know, talk to them and try to get. Ask questions, seek guidance and. But I couldn't do that without a strong network. Right.

A (28:34)

So what about the more kind of formalized opportunities to network? I'm thinking Leadership Forum, Eagle Institute. You had mentioned the Global School Business Network. How do those opportunities foster the kinds of mentorships we're talking about?

B (28:49)

You know, every professional development offers its own objective. So when we talk about asbo, ace, it's about the sessions you attend. When we talk about Leadership Forum. For me, when I've been able to attend Leadership Forum, that's really been more designed for governing boards, you know, and everything on. So that is, to me, about how to work together as a group, as a board. What does that look like from a leadership perspective? I will say Eagle Institute is one of my favorites. It's changed over the Years. But back in the day when it was its own week in the summer, it was one of my favorite professional development opportunities. And it was really guided, geared, I should say it was really more geared towards your professional leadership capacity growth, development and really learning from the past. And so we would. The different venues allowed you to learn from different historical figures and it really just was incredible on site experiential learning that really helped you learn about yourself as well as how you are as a leader. And so. And even those opportunities allow you to meet new people and grow together, right? And you leave those professional development opportunities with new friends as well as new contacts and you learn a lot about yourself in regards to being a school business official, what kind of leader you want to be. And so I think those opportunities have been huge for me. I don't get to attend them as much as I would like because of the time of the year that I've changed it to. My district has six bargaining units. We're in the middle of negotiations, we're in the middle of budgeting. And so the winter is very, very busy. But those opportunities, those leadership designed professional development opportunities really help you grow in who you are and what kind of leader you want to be. A lot of people throw out servant leadership. There's, you know, different types that you could think about. But what kind of leader do you want to be? How do we communicate with one another? What kind of a communicator do you want to be? All those things are huge in helping us be successful in our positions, I believe.

A (31:13)

I totally agree. I mean, I haven't attended the Eagle Institute yet. It's on my list. But when I think about ace, the Leadership Forum, you're learning not only great skill sets for you as an individual, but to your point, how to communicate and how to be a collaborative leader. And I think one of my favorites was the San Diego Leadership Forum. And I met some really wonderful people and we did the disc profile and that was all about your personality and how you receive and communicate. It was great. And one of the better parts was getting up and moving around the room and getting in groups and just meeting people cold. But immediately, because we were in that activity, you had a lot to share and had a lot in common. It was, it was a great exercise and just, you know, we come from all different walks of life, but we kind of drill down to these core components and it was so nice to, to have that opportunity at the, at the leadership Forum. So.

B (32:07)

Yeah, go ahead. Sorry.

A (32:09)

No, I was just going to say it's just those opportunities, those professional development opportunities aren't just good for me in terms of building my skill set, but also building my network.

B (32:19)

Yeah, I would think on top of that, we didn't really talk about advocacy. They do an advocacy as what does an advocacy thing during summary. I think that is one of the things that I feel the weakest. I don't know if a lot of people, some people are really drawn towards advocacy. Right. And that's like their wheelhouse and they really get excited and they're very knowledgeable about that world. And I have. I've always wanted to be a better advocate, especially with our legislators or our General assembly, whether it's at the US on the Hill or in our state legislator. But it doesn't come naturally for some of us. Especially for me. It does not come naturally for me. But it's definitely something now that I'm in a district that really serves special education students and the concern about how those kids are serviced and funded and all the things that I really do wish there was a better network or mentoring opportunity for advocacy because that's what I do feel like I'm the weakest at in my professional career. But that's so important right now with everything that's going on at the federal level. I was actually sharing with members of my finance committee a couple months ago the fact that we're actually feeling pressure for the first time that I know in all of my career at all three levels. So we've had state concerns, we've had local concerns when the 2008 recession and everything and all. But we are now dealing with a senior property tax credit program, which is about $3.3 million loss to my district. We're dealing at the local level. Right. We're dealing with a state. We're still with state issues where we're looking at a new funding formula and what that could look like. We've also got legislators who want to eliminate personal property tax, which drives a lot of our funding. We've got a governor who wants to determine how to eliminate income tax at the federal level. We've got what's going on with the US Department of Ed. I mean, there are pressures on education at every level. And so we really need to work on and learn how to better advocate for all of our school districts around the country. It's not just me in Missouri, you in New York. It's really every school district has got to advocate for themselves and what it's going to look like for education going forward in this country.

A (34:41)

Well, I think you bring up a good point in where it might be a blind spot for a lot of school business officials. I know, at least for myself, it wasn't and still isn't a natural thing, advocacy. Because the way I look at it is you're essentially walking up to a stranger, explaining your position and asking typically for resources. It's just not a natural thing. Right. Yep. So it has. It has taken a lot of experience and training to do it. But admittedly, I'm still not 100% comfortable. I'll put a microphone in front of my face and talk to a stranger about stuff, but when it comes to advocacy, it's just not a natural thing for me.

B (35:17)

Exactly. Me either. Yeah.

A (35:20)

So you mentioned something earlier I want to circle back to. You mentioned the word friendships. We talked a lot about mentorships, professional networks. But have you seen these connections you've made over the years grow beyond the professional realm? Have you seen some of these relationships genuinely grow into friendships and support systems?

B (35:41)

Oh, absolutely. I would say initially, people that I served on committees with became my first and foremost closest friends. Laura Calburn, Karen Weissman. We were on the school finance committee back in the day when ASBO had school finance committees. We still stay in touch and catch up and everything. I would say, interesting enough, I was on the editorial advisory committee and Carrie Austin joined it. She's from Alabama, has become such a dear friend of mine, and now that my daughter's in school in Alabama, she's like a second mom to Lindsay. And so it's so nice knowing that Lindsay's close by to such a dear friend that can look after her, help out when needed and stuff and all. So you in New York. Howie's become a really good friend in Massachusetts, I will say. The funny thing is this last summer I didn't really know what I wanted to do for vacation, and I ended up going to Wisconsin because I have a lot of school business official friends in Wisconsin. And it really was a road trip to see as many of my Wisconsin school business official friends as I could.

A (36:56)

That's awesome.

B (36:57)

And so I saw Sarah Vieira while I was up there. Michael Jewek and his wife Amanda. We met for dinner one night. And so it was really. And others anyway. But it's really has developed a lot of friendships in the fact that, you know, there's a lot of people. I actually refer to ASBO as my second family because there are so many people that I've come to know and love over the years that are just incredible.

A (37:27)

And I Think that speaks to how unique our profession is because we're not competing with one another. I think we have the opportunity to develop these relationships and put our guard down and be a little bit more vulnerable and really establish that human connection. You know, if we were selling widgets or something, and we probably would be a little bit more guarded and we wouldn't maybe develop those relationships. But, you know, I have made some of the best friends of my life just through work. I don't see that happening all the time in other professions, you know?

B (37:58)

Yeah, no, I agree. You know, when I was at ASA in Texas and I realized you weren't there, you know, I immediately texted you and said, hey, missing you at asbo. And then that's when I learned you'd had your daughter. And so then you sent me pictures and, you know, it's just a unique friendship and relationship when you meet people and you really connect again at that genuine level. Right. It's not superficial, it's not artificial. It's a genuine connection and friendship that you develop with a lot of people.

A (38:27)

Yeah, well said. So, so what advice would you give to newer members and getting involved and maybe bridging that hesitation to. To reach out and then, you know, develop a professional and then maybe like a professional, a personal relationship. What advice would that be to somebody kind of just starting out?

B (38:45)

If I was to give advice to people starting out, I would first say start local, right? Get to know your neighboring school district business officials. Develop that local network, whether it's a, like I said, we have a regional meeting that we do. Get to know them, learn, create that network at that local level, and then grow into the state level, right? Join a committee, get involved at the state level, grow your network within your state. You never know. You might. You and I both know we change districts right, in our past. And so getting to know people from around the state, around your area might be your next opportunity in the future kind of a thing, as well as helping others to move about or recommend, hey, this is a great district. I think you should apply. So really starting at the local level, growing to the state level, creating that network, getting involved at that state level, and then eventually growing into the national. Get involved for ASBO International or whatever that looks like, whether it's advocacy, whether it's the education committee, whether it's the editorial advisory committee, get involved, meet people. And then if you are uncomfortable seeking out a mentor, reach out to a state executive director or as well and say, hey, I'm looking for a mentor. Help me get Connected to someone. Because like you said many times in our podcast just now, it is the fact that we really will help each other out and it really is a good network. And so, you know, anybody listening could reach out to you, reach out to me. We would help them, either mentor them ourselves or help them get connected, either someone closer to them or whatever. The nice thing about today and technology, we can zoom, we can meet, we can talk on the phone. You know, it doesn't have to be someone that's right in the next district, you know, in the district right next to you, it could be anywhere around the country. So just start being, getting, be willing to start growing your network and getting connected to people. Because we all know that whether we want to be or not, we are social individuals and we need connection. We learned that, I think a lot since COVID And so be willing to get connected, be connected and start growing that network because it will absolutely benefit you in the future. No matter what position you are in, what district you go to, where you are in life, that network will absolutely benefit you both professionally and personally. The friendships, the family, the relationships that you and I have both had or gained as a result of our network, the collaboration that we've been able to do, you and I have presented together, we've written articles together. The collaboration and the, the connection that we've made as well as, you know, others will be, will be so valuable to you in the long run.

A (41:35)

And I always make it a point too, like in more of a formal setting, if I'm presenting, you know, how you put your contact info up there and everything. And I think that's just kind of something that people do. But at the end of the sessions or if I run into somebody, I say, reach out to me if you need help. And I really mean that. I'm not just saying it because I put my email up here, but seriously, call, text, email me. I've been in your shoes before. I will take the time to help. And I think that's gone a long way because I've had a lot of individuals reach out that, whom I don't recognize, but they were in the audience at some point, said, hey, I saw your presentation on long range planning or something and you said I could reach out. So here I am reaching out and I love that. I mean, I'm glad that it, it sticks with people and they're willing to do that. So, you know, for those listening, if it's, if you offer your information up, make sure you're offering it up genuinely and that you want to help out, you know?

B (42:27)

Absolutely. Yeah.

A (42:29)

So final question you had mentioned, just especially with, you know, your time of year and the winter season is very busy, how do you keep your connection strong between whether it's ace conference that you run into all people that you probably don't see on a regular basis, Whether you're in 200 negotiations a year, how do you keep those connections strong between those busy times?

B (42:52)

Wow. A variety of avenues for me. So a lot of individuals and friends I'm connected with on Facebook, but I do like, text because I think it's a little bit more personable. I try to make it a point. Again, just me. I try to make it a point to reach out to people say, hey, just thinking of you, or just send an emoji or whatever. Because sometimes you never know what kind of day they're having, and so they're like, oh, my gosh, thank you so much. I really needed that, or I appreciate you reaching out or whatever. So I just try to make it a point to try to connect with people to your point. When it's busy and you're in meetings all day long, it's like, oh, my gosh, where'd the day go? And everything. But that's when you need your network the most, is when you're drained or when you've got. You feel like you're at your end, or it's just a stressful time. I have six presentations in eight days between last Friday and December 9th. And so it's times like these that I'm like, I gotta reach out to my support group, you know, and I just need to feel connected, even if it's, you know, hey, what'd you do this weekend? I just need to get connected and. And get outside myself. Right. And again, invest in others. Sometimes we. We need to get outside of ourselves, invest in others. And that's really what I think part of your network should be about, is investing in other people. So I'm not always great at it when it's busy and chaotic, but you just have to make things a priority. And what you make a priority is what's important to you. Family should always be a priority because that should be one thing that's important to us. But relationships and. And the people we work with and the people that are our friends and family members, we need to make sure that we stay connected with. So whatever that looks like, you know, that's what I try to do.

A (44:49)

Well, Cindy, thank you so much for your time today. I know how busy you are especially right now. So you being willing to carve out an hour for me just to talk, it means a lot. And I hope everything goes well at your district. And you know, if people haven't read it already, make sure you check out our article on school business. Now lean on me. Growing your professional network. It's a pleasure to speak with you again. I hope you have a wonderful Thanksgiving and I'm sure we'll be in touch.

B (45:13)

It is always a pleasure to speak with you, John, and to be on your podcast. Thank you again for asking me, and have an amazing Thanksgiving with your family.

A (45:22)

Thank you for tuning in to School Business Insider. Make sure to check back each week for your favorite topics on school business. Sam.