School Business Insider

Host: John Brucato
Episode: Navigating Change: A Live Conversation from SBMW
Date: November 25, 2025
Guests: Ron Clamser (Putnam North Westchester BOCES), live audience and participant call-ins

Overview

This episode was recorded live at the SBMW conference and features a candid, interactive discussion on navigating change in school business operations. Host John Brucato and guest Ron Clamser draw from decades of experience, exploring key pain points, pitfalls, leadership tools, and the importance of adaptability in a constantly evolving field. The discussion includes real-world examples, audience anecdotes, and strategies for managing both people and new technology in school business offices.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Inevitability (and Irony) of Change (00:00–06:54)

• Theme Introduction: Change is guaranteed in the work of school business officials; the goal is not to deliver “earth-shattering knowledge,” but practical, real-life stories and strategies.
• Audience Engagement: Participants are encouraged to describe what comes to mind when they hear the word "change." Results range from "opportunity" and "growth" to "fear" and "resistance," reflecting mixed emotions about change.
  • Quote: “Opportunity seems to be the most common one… But we also have fear, resistance, uh oh, scary.” — John Brucato (06:16)

2. Major Change Drivers & Pain Points (06:54–14:58)

• Biggest Categories:
  • Staffing (“Hard to find good people”)
  • Technology (Rapid tech & AI advancement)
  • Compliance/Audit Requirements
  • Budget & Funding Pressures
• Staffing and Culture Fit:
  • Civil service rules often create hiring mismatches.
  • "Fit" remains a controversial but crucial factor.
  • Generational differences increasingly visible; new hires from Gen Z bring different priorities and work habits.
  • Quote: “There is a fit to the culture… having the wrong person in a position can really throw off the energy in an office.” — Ron Clamser (09:26)
• Institutional Knowledge Loss:
  • Long-tenured staff hold undocumented knowledge; their retirement can risk operational continuity.
  • Need for protocols/procedures over reliance on individuals.

3. Generational Challenges & Work Styles (14:58–19:08)

• Multi-Generation Interactions:
  • Difficulties and benefits of mixing 23-year-olds and 60-year-olds in the same office.
  • Differences in attitudes toward overtime, efficiency, and work-life balance.
  • Quotes:
    • “Ron will work until 7 or 8 at night and I’m like, why? For what? ... Why aren't you going home?” — John Brucato (16:19)
    • “It’s not a work ethic thing… my [older] generation, we just grew up with that.” — Ron Clamser (16:59)
• Subliminal Leadership Cues:
  • Leaders' after-hours habits can unintentionally set staff expectations around availability.

4. The Power of Tough Conversations (19:14–23:21)

• Leadership Growth:
  • Importance of clear, documented discussions when managing underperformance.
  • Early, regular feedback trumps end-of-year surprises.
  • Building a culture of candor and authenticity increases team adaptability.
  • Quotes:
    • “Being clear is kind.” — John Brucato (20:36, referencing Brene Brown)
    • “People want to do good work, want to succeed, and want feedback… if you’re not having those regular conversations, people don’t know.” — Ron Clamser (21:19)

5. Technology Shifts — Growth, Dependency, & Pain Points (23:24–33:51)

• Evolving Role of Tech:
  • Not all new hires are tech-proficient, regardless of age.
  • Over-reliance on technology exposes vulnerabilities (e.g., system upgrades causing payroll errors).
  • Large-scale upgrades or software migrations bring stress, especially across departments with non-integrated systems.
  • Live Audience: Participants shared experiences with simultaneous software changes and the challenge of documenting systems/procedures to survive turnover (29:09–30:31).
  • Quote: “We have our senior dogs and we have our puppies… the puppies keep jumping up and down, and the senior dogs are like, leave me alone.” — Audience member (29:32)
• Cross-Departmental Issues:
  • HR and business offices often use tech that doesn’t “talk," complicating workflows.
  • Securing stakeholder buy-in is key to tech change success.

6. Artificial Intelligence (AI): Friend, Foe, or Both? (33:51–41:23)

• AI as a Category of Its Own:
  • Attendees discuss use cases and cautionary tales of AI and ChatGPT in business offices.
  • Ron shares how AI halved his analysis time when reconciling payroll with board resolutions (38:08–41:23).
  • Quote: “You have to learn how to interact with AI… how to prompt effectively… knowing when to use it is just as important as how.” — John Brucato (35:43)
  • Use AI as an assistant, not a replacement; double-check results (hallucinations happen).
  • Quote: “But the analysis took 30 seconds and the spreadsheet took me hours.” — Ron Clamser (35:43)

7. Compliance & Audit: The Constant Gauntlet (41:23–43:01)

• Navigating Ever-Changing Requirements:
  • GASB updates exemplify regulatory fatigue.
  • Being intentional about documenting processes reduces repeat learning curves.
  • Shared groans about tracking “sick leave bank” days—a universal headache.

8. Surviving Staff Turnover & Building Institutional Capacity (43:01–49:14)

• Audience Stories:
  • One attendee replaced a 17-year veteran SBO and 27-year payroll clerk in a staff of three; faced steep learning and no documentation.
    • Quote: “There were no procedures, nothing written down. Our first payroll… we took deductions not knowing we shouldn’t take deductions… four payroll grievances…” — Audience member (43:52)
  • Leaning on peer networks and BOCES services for support.
  • The importance of not feeling isolated; professional development, networking, and mutual support are lifelines.
  • Quote: “I appreciate you telling me that because I don’t feel like I’m alone.” — Audience member (43:52)
  • Leadership often means being the "emotional support system" for staff.
• Brain Drain: When institutional memory leaves, "I don’t know; Todd took care of it" becomes an unhelpful refrain.

9. Building Trust, Accountability, & Empowerment (49:14–55:33)

• Keys to Effective Change:
  • Build trust by being authentic, consistent, and accountable.
  • Empowering team members increases buy-in and distributes leadership.
  • Trust shines during challenges; mistakes are learning opportunities, not moments for blame.
  • Quotes:
    • “A good leader inspires people to have confidence in their leader; a great leader inspires people to have confidence in themselves.” — Ron Clamser (paraphrasing on 53:26)
    • “Empower people to do their work… or else you’ll do it all yourself.” — John Brucato (54:18)
• Case Study: Facilities Director initially avoided conflict; with empowerment and backing, personnel issues improved.

10. Avoiding Leadership Overreach (55:33–57:33)

• Letting Managers Manage:
  • Resisting the urge to step in too early helps staff develop and maintains an appropriate chain of responsibility.
  • Leadership overreach can paralyze teams and stall decision-making, especially if it comes from the superintendent level.

11. Real-World Case Studies (57:33–62:50)

• District vs. BOCES Work:
  • John and Ron discuss the cultural shift and lessons in moving between district and BOCES positions.
• Food Service Contract Change:
  • Swapping food service management companies due to bid requirements led to parent/student dissatisfaction.
  • Response: formation of a working group, taste tests, hands-on equipment upgrades, and eventual program improvements.
  • Quote: “I think the moral of that story… is even though it was a bad change and it was incredibly frustrating, we were able to leverage that as an opportunity…” — John Brucato (61:51)

12. Building a Culture of Adaptability & Communication (62:50–66:32)

• Normalizing Change:
  • Cultures that value learning adapt more easily to change.
  • Intentional, early and multi-channel communication is vital.
  • Quote: “If my inclination is that somebody may be impacted by something, I’ll copy them on an email just so they’re in the loop.” — John Brucato (66:04)
• Transparency vs. Gatekeeping:
  • Balance is required: over-communication helps, but sensitivity is needed around who needs what info in a new district or culture.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “[Change is] guaranteed… sometimes we make the right decision and sometimes we don’t.” — Ron Clamser (04:36)
• "There is a fit to the culture...having the wrong person in a position can really throw off the energy in an office." — Ron Clamser (09:26)
• “Being clear is kind.” — John Brucato (20:36, citing Brene Brown)
• “We have our senior dogs and we have our puppies. The puppies keep jumping up and down, and the senior dogs are like, ‘leave me alone.’” — Audience member (29:32)
• "You have to learn how to interact with AI… how to prompt effectively… knowing when to use it is just as important as how." — John Brucato (35:43)
• “There’s nothing worse to trust than if somebody is not consistent. The inconsistency will really damage the trust build.” — Ron Clamser (50:52)
• “A great leader inspires people to have confidence in themselves.” — Ron Clamser (53:26 paraphrased)
• “Just because we think we’re communicating doesn’t mean it’s being heard correctly.” — Ron Clamser (65:14)

Key Timestamps for Reference

• 00:00–02:14 — Introduction, setting the stage
• 06:54 — Big pain points: staffing, technology, compliance, budget
• 14:58 — Generational challenges—staff dynamics
• 19:14 — Importance of hard conversations
• 23:24 — Technology—skills, upgrades, overreliance
• 33:51 — Artificial Intelligence in practice
• 41:23 — Compliance and audit headaches
• 43:01 — Audience story: surviving turnover, lack of documentation
• 49:14 — Building trust, accountability, empowerment
• 55:33 — Leadership boundaries, letting team leads handle issues
• 57:33 — Case studies: BOCES experience and food service transitions
• 62:50 — Building adaptability, communication best practices
• 66:32 — Closing comments

Takeaways for School Business Professionals

• Change is an everyday reality: anticipate, document, and intentionally manage.
• Invest in building a culture that values learning, feedback, and cross-generational understanding.
• Don’t neglect documentation and process-building, especially before key staff departure.
• Embrace technology (including AI—prudently!), but never assume its infallibility.
• Communicate early, often, and empathetically; trust and empowerment are two-way streets.

This episode is a masterclass in leadership through change—the messy kind faced daily by school business teams everywhere. It’s both a warning and a reassurance: you are not alone, and every obstacle can also be an opportunity.