School Districts and State Initiatives: Wins, Challenges, and Advocacy

Summary

School Business Insider: Episode Summary

Title: School Districts and State Initiatives: Wins, Challenges, and Advocacy
Host: John Brucato
Guest: Caroline Bobick, Deputy Director of Governmental and External Relations at NISBA
Release Date: January 28, 2025

---

1. Introduction

In this episode of School Business Insider, host John Brucato engages in a comprehensive discussion with Caroline Bobick from the New York State School Boards Association (NISBA). The focus centers on New York Governor Kathy Hochul's newly released 2025 executive budget, exploring its implications for school districts, highlighting both successes and obstacles, and emphasizing the critical role of advocacy in shaping educational policies.

---

2. Guest Background: Caroline Bobick and NISBA

Caroline Bobick serves as the Deputy Director of Governmental and External Relations at NISBA, bringing over seven years of experience in monitoring legislative proposals, drafting supportive legislation, and leading advocacy initiatives. Her journey includes international teaching experiences in Honduras and Turkey, a master's degree in international affairs, and a pivotal role in New York state government, particularly in education policy.

[01:34] Caroline Bobick: “I present to our members on those proposals, and I share with policymakers our association's reactions to those proposals.”

---

3. Understanding the New York State Budget Process

Bobick provides an overview of New York's unique budget development process, typically initiated in mid-January by the Governor. The process involves the release of the executive budget, stakeholder reactions, legislative hearings, and intense negotiations between the Senate, Assembly, and Governor’s office to finalize the budget by April 1st.

[05:40] Caroline Bobick: “The governor always decides what traditional means as far as an on time budget. ... It’s a mad dash at the end of March.”

Bobick highlights the stress this process places on school business officials, who must align district budgets with unpredictable state funding decisions.

---

4. Key Wins in the 2025 Budget

a. Universal Free School Meals

One of the standout achievements in the 2025 budget is the introduction of universal free school meals, regardless of a student's socioeconomic status or zip code. This initiative builds on previous advocacy efforts, ensuring that all students can access nutritious meals without financial barriers.

[20:40] Caroline Bobick: “…the governor has now put forward language that would fully reimburse all schools for breakfast and lunch…”

Bobick recounts the history of school meal funding, the impact of COVID-19 waivers, and the sustained advocacy that led to this substantial policy shift.

b. Preservation of Safe Harmless

Contrary to expectations from the previous year, the Safe Harmless provision, which guarantees that school districts do not receive less operating aid than the previous year, has been preserved. This decision alleviates fears of significant funding cuts for many districts.

[14:28] John Brucato: “…the preservation of Safe Harmless was a pleasant surprise.”

[15:00] Caroline Bobick: “They wanted to fully fund foundation aid and that meant that districts would get what they got according to that formula…”

c. Reducing Screen Time: Distraction Free Schools Initiative

The budget introduces the Distraction Free Schools initiative, aiming to minimize the use of internet-enabled devices during school hours. Schools are mandated to adopt policies by August 1, 2025, with specific exceptions and an allocated $13.5 million to support implementation.

[33:33] Caroline Bobick: “…the governor has now put forward language that would fully reimburse all schools for breakfast and lunch at no cost to students.”

[36:58] John Brucato: “…students have to put their phones in their lockers or other storage during the school day.”

d. Foundation Aid Increases

The budget ensures a guaranteed 2% increase in foundation aid, a significant improvement from previous years where only minimal increases were standard. This change provides more predictable and sustained funding for school districts.

[41:37] John Brucato: “And a guaranteed 2% increase for even those that are on Safe Harmless, which was even more of a surprise.”

[41:43] Caroline Bobick: “Starting off negotiations with a minimum 2% increase is quite nice.”

---

5. Challenges and Concerns

a. Transition to Zero Emission Buses

A major concern not directly addressed in the budget is the mandatory transition to zero emission buses. New York requires all new school buses to be zero emission by 2027 and to eliminate combustible engine buses by 2035. However, 15% of districts lack the electrical capacity to support even a single zero emission bus, making compliance logistically and financially challenging.

[43:42] Caroline Bobick: “15% of districts do not have the electrical capacity to support a single zero emission bus.”

[44:21] John Brucato: “…expect all districts to be complete by the mid-30s is just, I think, a bridge too far.”

Bobick emphasizes the need for district-specific fleet implementation plans and state support to manage this transition effectively.

---

6. The Role of Advocacy in Shaping the Budget

Bobick underscores the pivotal role of collective advocacy in achieving budgetary successes. From universal school meals to increased foundation aid, sustained and unified efforts by various education stakeholders have been instrumental.

a. Effective Strategies

• Unified Voice: Collaboration among diverse groups such as PTA, teachers' unions, superintendents, and principals to present a cohesive advocacy front.

• Grassroots Campaigns: Mobilizing members to send letters, emails, and participate in lobby days to demonstrate widespread support.

• Lobby Days: Engaging directly with policymakers through organized events, both virtually and in-person, to influence legislative outcomes.

[28:22] Caroline Bobick: “…just stay tuned, lock into your statewide association, your inter, your national association, and see what kind of take action opportunities they have.”

b. Persistence and Patience

Bobick highlights the importance of persistent advocacy, even when progress seems slow. She shares success stories from both large-scale initiatives and smaller, district-specific legislative changes, illustrating that no advocacy effort is too small.

[50:03] Caroline Bobick: “You might think something like, oh, this is really a pain in my tuchus … but you can make a difference and reach out to your statewide association.”

---

7. Conclusion

The 2025 executive budget marks a significant stride for New York's educational landscape, blending notable victories with ongoing challenges. Universal free school meals and preserved foundation aid provide immediate benefits, while initiatives like reducing screen time aim to foster a more focused learning environment. However, the transition to zero emission buses remains a pressing issue requiring further advocacy and support.

Caroline Bobick’s insights reinforce the critical nature of sustained and unified advocacy in shaping policies that directly impact schools and students. As the budget process continues, stakeholders are encouraged to remain engaged, leveraging effective strategies to ensure continued progress and address emerging challenges.

[55:39] John Brucato: “…advocacy is so important and why you shouldn't give up. So thank you again and best of luck this budget season.”

---

Notable Quotes:

• Caroline Bobick [14:28]: “The enacted budget included a direction for this institute called the Rockefeller Institute of Government to conduct a study, hold hearings…”

• John Brucato [27:08]: “…Save Harmless, at least for another year, is still being preserved to that point.”

• Caroline Bobick [28:19]: “Such a great advocacy win, and it's a great advocacy story.”

• Caroline Bobick [43:42]: “15% of districts do not have the electrical capacity to support a single zero emission bus.”

---

This episode serves as a beacon for educational advocates, demonstrating the tangible impacts of dedicated efforts and the ongoing need for vigilance in budget advocacy to support and enhance the educational infrastructure.

Transcript

[John Brucato]

You're listening to ASBO International's School Business Insider. I'm your host, John Brucato. Each week on School Business Insider, I sit down with school business officials and industry experts from around the world to share their stories and explore the topics that matter most to you. Find out what it means to be a school business official and get your insider pass on all things school business. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to School Business Insider. Today, we're turning our attention to New York State Governor Kathy Hochul's 2025 recently released executive budget. With several initiatives that directly impact schools, such as school meals and reducing screen time for students, this budget outlines a vision with a significant implication for school districts across the state. To help us unpack these proposals, we're joined by Caroline Bobick, Deputy Director of Governmental and External Relations at the New York State School Boards association, also known as Nisba. In this episode, we'll explore what the 2025 executive budget means for school districts, discuss what can be considered wins or challenges for schools, and examine how advocacy efforts have influenced the proposed budget. Caroline, welcome to the podcast. I'm so happy to have you.

[Caroline Bobick]

Thanks for having me.

[John Brucato]

Absolutely. So we have a lot to cover, but before we dive into too much, can you just give our audience a sense of who you are, what you do for nisba, and really, you know, the path you took to get to where you are today?

[Caroline Bobick]

Yeah, I'll start with what I do at nisba. So I've been with the New York State School Boards association for over seven years now, as you said. I'm the Deputy Director of Governmental and External Relations, and as a member of our wonderful Governmental Relations Department, I monitor certain committees in the state Senate and Assembly, notably the Education Committee. I review budget and other legislative proposals. I present to our members on those proposals, and I share with policymakers our association's reactions to those proposals. Our department also drafts legislation in support of positions that our members have voted to adopt at our annual business meetings. We host our own annual Lobby Day and sometimes Lobby days, depending on the year and our priorities. I'm also NISBA's federal advocacy liaison, so I set our federal lobbying priorities. I draft those memos. I help lead many of our congressional meetings along with members of my team, and I represent NISBA on a number of coalitions, such as the Community Schools Networks Advisory Board, Healthy School Meals for All New York Coalition, so shout out to them for their Extraordinary Achievement, and Coalition Seeking to Expand Medicaid Billable Services in Schools, Even a coalition fighting for stronger regulations against flavored E cigarettes. So, as you can see, our advocacy covers a lot of areas and a little bit about me and my path. I. After college, I moved to Honduras. I taught English in my 20s. Wonderful experience. Came back, did some medical billing, and continued to teach English at nights in my. In my abundant free time, since I had no social life at the time. I. I both studied Turkish and. And officially got my. My TOEFL certificate to. To teach English as a more certified teacher. And then I moved to Turkey and I taught English in kind of a middle high school grade for two years. Came back from my master's degree, and I. My master's is actually in international affairs, but I got a fellowship after the master's degree to work in state government. And I'm like, what's state government? I'm learning about these grassroots development, grassroots movements in underdeveloped rural areas around the world, and here I am pushed into state government. I was actually initially placed in the Higher Education Services Corporation because the people placing me saw my resume, they saw education. A few times, they said, this makes sense. I guess we'll put a fellow here. And at the time, Governor Cuomo was looking to beef up his education policy team, so there were a few interviews for anyone who might fit the bill. And I landed the coveted spot in the executive chamber. And so my first role in state government was staffing the Common Core Task Force in New York State. Wow.

[John Brucato]

So you've been in the belly of the beast.

[Caroline Bobick]

I have been. So that fellowship was two years, and after that ended, Nisbo was looking for a lobbyist, and I've been with them ever since.

[John Brucato]

Wow, that's such an interesting career path. And you're a staple in New York. Everybody knows you and your advocacy efforts. So I'm glad that you landed where you are because you've done a lot of great work with NISBA and for schools across the state. So thank you.

[Caroline Bobick]

It was unexpected, and it's. Yeah, it's been a great move and a good career that I kind of fell into.

[John Brucato]

Awesome. Awesome. Well, I'm happy to have you on today and to really kind of unpack what has recently been released by New York State Governor Hochul. So can you just maybe give us broad strokes in terms of what the 2025 budget is and for those who may not be familiar, maybe just kind of the process of New York budget development? Because as far as I understand it, it is a little unique compared to maybe some neighboring states.

[Caroline Bobick]

Yeah. So in. In New York, usually mid January, if it's an election year, maybe, maybe very beginning of February, is when the executive budget is released by the Governor and her policy team, her council, and along with the division of budget. So on January 21, that was this Tuesday, the Governor released her proposal. The proposal includes new additions to the budget, but also oftentimes new policy proposals as well that the Governor wants to champion. Over the next few weeks, month and a half or so, everyone reacts to the Governor's proposals. The advocates, the legislators hold hearings. So next Wednesday will be the education hearing. And so all of the education advocates will be present and they will provide their reactions to the budget proposal to state senators and state members of the Assembly. And then all the lobby days happen throughout February, throughout March, somewhere mid March, the Senate and the assembly come, come, come out with their response, which is called the one House budget proposals. So they oftentimes will, they will create their own budget bills and they will either accept, reject, amend or add new proposals to the Governor's proposal. And then there is a mad sprint at the end of March because we all hope for an on time budget In New York that is April 1st. And so traditionally the governor always decides what traditional means as far as an on time budget. But what it's supposed to be is this mad dash the end of March, we have what the Senate wants, we have what the assembly wants, we have what the Governor wants. And then the three parties come together in different ways to kind of agree on things, remove things, get things off the table, things are staying on the table, add anything new. And so we do hear about the, you know that it used to be three men in a room, now it's in New York, now it's two women and one man in a room. Look at the progress. But, but really it is, it is more than that. Having been on the inside for as a fellow, like I discussed, the different policy teams also are meeting and they're talking with their principals as well. So the education policy team will have all of the education related proposals, which can either be policy proposals or budget proposals. And they have this big checklist of what are things that we can agree on and are easy things that we can just check, we can check the box and move on. What are things that are going to take, are going to be frantically decided at the last minute, to be honest. And those central staff members who do not get enough sleep, they are the ones meeting almost constantly the last two weeks of March and then if it's a late budget, they'll just keep meeting into April until whenever the budget is passed. And then ultimately things are agreed to, things are added to the budget and we have our enacted budget sometime in April. And this mad dash, it can be especially stressful for school business officials because of the timing of having to put forth budget proposals to, on school district levels to their voters. If funding is not predictable, if the legislators propose state funding that is vastly different from what the governor proposed and they don't know what they're. What to expect, they might have to put forth, you know, two, two vastly different kind of budget proposals. What will happen if the governor's proposal is. Is reality? What happens if we get more money than the governor proposed? And it makes it tricky for school business officials. But so. So this year, I will say in the education realm, the budget was rather muted. There were a few big headlines, but we can talk a bit more about school aid as we go on. The big headlines for schools this year was the announcement of universal free school meals and a mandatory restriction on cell phones in schools.

[John Brucato]

Yeah, so two very interesting concepts and points that I think the devil is always in the details. So we'll dive into that a little bit before we move forward. I did want to circle back. You had mentioned that the governor releases the executive budget which contains both policy and finances. In your experience, do you find that those can often be in conflict? Is one holding up the other? Is there issue in terms of kind of the budgeting process, in terms of getting an on time budget, does policy maybe hold up finances or vice versa? Because to your point, it can be a very stressful endeavor for school business officials. As we wait in anticipation for what those final numbers are, do you find that the policy and the finances can be in conflict? Sometimes and maybe talk me through that.

[Caroline Bobick]

Yeah. And yes, sometimes something that's completely unrelated to schools, like a housing initiative that the three houses just are not agreeing on can hold up the entire budget. Sometimes there is policy behind the funding though as well. And so last year there was a lot of policy behind what should make up school aid. How should school aid be calculated? And the. The biggest issue in New York last year was this decades long practice of it's called either save harmless or hold harmless. That ensured that school districts would not receive less operating aid in the following year than they received the year before. And that was stripped from the budget. And so half of the school districts in the state were at risk of losing serious money. Some of them millions of dollars, some of them 40% of their operating, operating aid was threatened to be cut. And it was a very stressful time, and the budget was a little bit late. We're not in that situation this year. But that's. In addition to that being a financial decision, that's also kind of a policy decision. And where do we move with state aid? How do we take into account financial stability when enrollment is declining in certain school districts, but also recognize that there are costs that those school districts still have to incur, even if they lose one or two students per. Per class, that they still need a teacher in each one of those classrooms, that they can't cut the same types of costs related to each individual student that's leaving. They're still dealing with. A lot of those schools are very rural. And so they're dealing with very unique challenges. In addition to that, how do you take all of that into account? And so there was a broader look last year at the state's funding formula. There was a very comprehensive report that came out as a result. Last year's enacted budget was so controversial, in fact, because of those proposed cuts, that the enacted budget included a direction for this institute called the Rockefeller Institute of Government to conduct a study, hold hearings. They held hearings around the state. They held a webinar for. For members of nisba. They might have held a webinar for members of ASBO as well. They made themselves very available to stakeholders, and they ended up producing a very. A very thorough report with lots of recommendations. And. And so a lot of that ends up being policy decisions. Yeah.

[John Brucato]

You know, one of the more surprising elements of the budget was the preservation of Safe Harmless, because we all thought last year during this time that when the governor signaled that Safe Harmless was going away, this was going to be the theme moving forward. And so Fast forward almost 12 months from then, to see that Safe Harmless is preserved was a pleasant surprise. And just to provide a little bit more context to listeners who are not in New York, this all has to do with New York State's main funding formula for school districts. Referred to as foundation aid. It was introduced in 2007, 2008, the financial crisis hit. So the formula has never truly run as it was intended, although in the background, those calculations were still moving. Every individual budget year was kind of a retooling of how aid was distributed to school districts. So, Caroline, to your point, some districts have been. I'm air quoting, I know this is audio only, but. But overfunded for a long time. So even though the formula said they should be getting less money because of Safe Harmless, their funding has been steadily increasing. So that gap between what they should be receiving in its truest form under the formula, what they were actually receiving was cumulatively getting larger. So there were a lot of districts that were incredibly nervous about getting rid of Safe Harmless because they could see almost a decade's worth of overfunding be ripped out from under them depending on if it was a year, multiple years. We didn't know at that time. So all that to be said, I think it was welcomed by many school districts. I know definitely the school business officials are happy that Save Harmless, at least for another year, is still being preserved to that point. Any speculation as to why? Because it seemed like that was a non starter last year. So to completely do a 180 is really surprising to me. It's not something we typically see in state government.

[Caroline Bobick]

Yeah, I think my response to this is isn't government fun? Isn't this all fun? Anything could happen. Anything can change. Yeah. She was, she and, and her, and her budget director, they were the ones doubling down on, on why they needed to really tighten their, their grip on the budget and, and not throw around money like you. Like you said, they wanted to fully fund foundation aid and that meant that districts would get what they got according to that formula and if they were getting too much, then they would be put back on that formula. And it was incredibly controversial. But one, one response to that is that, you know, the formula needs to be looked at in entirety and that could create winners and losers. But, but also that formula is based on this successful schools model. And there has been a lot of speculation and a lot of recommendations to review. What, what do successful schools look like today? What do they include? What services do they include? What does it look like for a student to be successful today? Does it mean that they, that they are performing well on tests? Does it mean that they're graduating? You know, New York is also reviewing its graduation requirements. And one thing that the. I'll say an acronym and then I'll explain the acronym that the ECB has recommended is to maybe determine success more on graduation rates rather than test scores because the current successful schools model is based on test scores. Ecb, that stands in New York, that stands for Educational Conference Board. I'm sure it stands for other things in other sectors, but for our purposes that's, it's a, it's a coalition of the education advocacy groups. So ASBO New York is part of it, nisba, the Conference of the Big five School Districts. So we have very, very large school districts that have their own representation. PTA Teachers, union, superintendents and principals, we come together monthly. There are things that we agree on and we submit papers together. So collectively we have had responses, reactions and recommendations to what kind of changes we could see in the short term and the long term for school funding in New York.

[John Brucato]

And to your point, government can be very fun and as a practitioner can be challenging in the sense that, you know, when I think back to our budget development process last year, I was signaling to my board, you know, you know, my school district is one of the safe, harmless districts, meaning that we were potentially in the chopping block for losing some funding. So I was signaling to my board, this is probably coming and not going away because that's traditionally how it's been. We were gearing up for that. And then I presented just last night and I said, nevermind, we don't have to worry about it, at least for a year. So it was all that angst and anticipation for. Not which I'm not complaining, but complaining in the sense that it's like, you know, the messaging can be very confusing and you have community members tuning in and saying, oh, we're going to lose all this money. And then the following year it's like, forget everything we just talked about. It's not something we have to worry about. So it's always kind of this, this horse trading and this jockeying for, you know, what can we anticipate and how do we long range financial plan for something like this, just when you know, you can pivot on a dime.

[Caroline Bobick]

So yeah, overall with this budget, it seems like she, she is playing very, very nicely with the education.

[John Brucato]

It's not even election year either, you know. Yeah, so there are some big wins, I think in this budget, which is very encouraging to be able to say. So I want to talk about the school meals initiative. This is something I personally feel is way long overdue. Being able to provide free school meals, regardless of socioeconomic status, regardless of where you, what your zip code is, I think is just such an important piece to being an educational institution. And the governor has signaled that that's kind of where we're trending and where she wants to go. So can you tell me about this initiative, why now and what does it really entail?

[Caroline Bobick]

Yes, I am so excited to talk about this proposal. NISBA has been a leading advocate championing universal school meals in New York for the past three years. Our partners at Hunger Solutions New York and community food advocates have been phenomenal to work with over the past two years. And the bipartisan legislative support has really helped this issue gain momentum. So before I delve into the details of the proposal, I'm going to give a brief history. For decades, the bulk of school meal reimbursements were provided to school food authorities by the federal government. In New York, the state chipped in pennies, literally. The state reimbursement for Most lunches was 6 cents. When we would review the budget, we would see an annual appropriation of $34.4 million for school lunches. Eventually, a few more meal related appropriations would pop up to support efforts like breakfast expansion and farm to school incentives. But generally, schools that opted into the National School Lunch Program were relying on the federal government for much of their funding, as well as of course, individual students who paid for their meals. Fast forward to Covid times. In my opinion, USDA did an amazing thing. They provided for a ton of waivers that allowed schools to not only give kids meals outside of a cafeteria, but they also reimbursed schools for every meal served, regardless of whether or not a kid's family qualified for free or reduced priced meals. We were in a crisis mode and I feel the federal government responded accordingly. So what happened was the cafeteria staff and other school administrators were seeing how great the need was and how many families were relying on those complete, well balanced meals that the school was handing out. So those waivers stayed in place for a few years. So students were then moving back into classrooms and they continued to get free meals. Around New York, school staff was noticing a lot of positive progress in school climate in the number of kids actually eating the meals. Breakfast participation increased and school meal debt was eliminated. So that's the money that would accrue when students did not or were not able to pay for their meal. So at NISBA, at our 2021 October annual business meeting, our voting delegates for the first time voted for a position that our association adopted, that that guided us to officially advocate for free school meals for all students. We immediately took the issue to our colleagues at the ECB and I asked the others if this was a priority for their members and they all chimed in. Everyone was talking about what a game changer this had become. And there was this looming deadline of June 30, 2022 that the free meals program would end. So we assembled a school meals work group very quickly and released a report in the first few weeks of 2022 with a number of recommendations dealing with school meals. But the top recommendation stated clearly that all members of the ECB supported universal school meals. As a reminder, PTA Teachers union, Superintendents principals, school business officials, school boards. So budget season came and went and it was not included that year on the federal level. The waivers lapsed. September 2022. Some kids owed money for their meals. Some families were not able to afford them even if their income was too high to qualify for free meals. And school meal debt started to accrue again. Meanwhile, the anti hunger advocates, they grabbed onto our memo. They brought us into a larger coalition and we began us meaning not just NISBA, but the entire ecb. And we began a statewide campaign with great momentum. We made huge gains in the budget that passed in spring of 2023. In that enacted budget, the state invested over 100 million additional dollars to create this subsidy to fully reimburse all schools who were eligible to participate in the federal program called Community Eligibility Provision, or cep. At the time of the budget, a school qualified for CEP if 40% of their students met certain poverty criteria. CEP itself is relatively new. It was created in the 2010 Healthy Hunger Free Kids Act. A school eligible to participate would be required to serve all students in the building free breakfast and lunch and get a reimbursement based on the poverty levels of the student body. That means not all students, not all schools who were eligible were getting fully reimbursed for the meals served. So starting in 2324, New York State was filling in that gap through the new CEP subsidy. And then more beautiful changes happened. The threshold was lowered to 25% and even more schools were qualifying for CEP. They were receiving reimbursements by both the state and federal government for the full cost of those meals. However, not every school qualifies for cep. And so even though that was a wonderful expansion and made a world of a difference in hundreds of schools, it was not truly universal. So in this budget proposal, the governor has now put forward language that would fully reimburse all schools for breakfast and lunch. The language included in the executive budget requires all schools participating in the in the National School Lunch Program to serve breakfast and lunch at no cost to students. It also directs schools to maximize federal funding reimbursements for for meals and requires schools to maximize their community eligibility reimbursement, even if that means reapplying annually instead of reapplying once every four years. If that means, if that would increase the student count numbers and the language states that CEP participating schools would need to conduct the direct certification matching process three times a year. Schools that do not qualify for cep, they would need to continue to collect those Free and reduced price lunch applications annually.

[John Brucato]

So lots of details. Yeah, yeah. Thank you for that. This is incredibly exciting for districts across New York. And like I said earlier, long overdue. Not every school district in New York does participate in the National School Lunch Program. So are they not able to take advantage of the universal school Meals if they're not part of National School Lunch?

[Caroline Bobick]

The language as it's written. No. If they wanted to take, to take part of this, they would need to participate in the National School Lunch Program.

[John Brucato]

Great.

[Caroline Bobick]

And that being said, this language, this is not the enacted budget. This is the proposed executive budget.

[John Brucato]

Right, right. So there is potential movement on that. I mean, during the legislative process that could include all schools, regardless of participation.

[Caroline Bobick]

I will say that in the advocacy sphere, I haven't heard people advocate for that. So that would be interesting to see.

[John Brucato]

Yeah, absolutely. Speaking of advocacy, we've had many episodes circling advocacy on School Business Insider. Advocacy takes a lot of work. It takes a lot of determination and tenacity. And there are all walks of life who advocate for their own individual interests and for interests of their own school district. But this seems like a universal win for those that are thinking about advocacy and maybe have been a little hesitant to get involved. This sounds like a true correlation of how advocacy really does change positive student outcomes. Has that been your experience with this school meals initiative? Oh, my goodness.

[Caroline Bobick]

Such a great advocacy win, and it's a great advocacy story.

[John Brucato]

Yeah.

[Caroline Bobick]

So many people were involved and so many people are taking credit for this win and they should be taking credit for this win. Just, just from Nisba. We couldn't have plowed forward the way we did if we didn't get a position formally on our books.

[John Brucato]

Right.

[Caroline Bobick]

And so that required some, some district putting forth a resolution to be voted on at our business meeting, and then that required other districts to be at that business meeting and vote for it. And so that's the first step. And then once we had that charge and we could officially advocate for this, then we had, we, we as well as so many other organizations, we have, you know, grassroots advocacy, take action opportunities that are easy to get involved in. So I would say, you know, just stay tuned, lock into your statewide association, your inter, your national association, and see what kind of take action opportunities they have. Sometimes it's text to action, sometimes it's an email that, that auto populates. You can edit it, you don't have to edit it, but they make it really easy. And so we had over a thousand letters or emails be sent to local representatives and that really helped. The groundswell of support is that every local representative was also hearing from their own constituents that this was a priority.

[John Brucato]

It's just so energizing to see an idea really come to life. And now a few years later, you see it actually proposed by the governor. So that's very encouraging to see. You mentioned that school districts that are able to take advantage of this still need to collect data like free and reduced lunch applications and things like that. So there still is somewhat of an administrative burden. It's just not that we can think, well, everybody gets to school meal, we have to worry about it anymore. But in that same vein, do you anticipate any other potential challenges districts may face when trying to offer universal school meals?

[Caroline Bobick]

I. That that the challenge that you just stated, I think that's the only one that I would foresee for anyone who is participating in cep. There, there isn't that same requirement to annually collect ferpal forms applications. But that's always been a challenge. Collecting those applications from every student has always been a challenge, and that will continue to be so. From the schools that have been able to participate in cep, we've heard the opposite. We've heard that their administrative burdens have been eased greatly and their staff has been able to dedicate their time to building more creative menus, initiating some more farm to school programs.

[John Brucato]

Do you anticipate any potential staffing challenges? I mean, if everybody's entitled to a school meal, you know, maybe kitchens have a greater demand from the student body. Has you heard anything along those lines?

[Caroline Bobick]

I've only heard positivity among the school food staff.

[John Brucato]

I mean, it's a good problem to have participation, actually.

[Caroline Bobick]

But one thing I'm curious about, personally curious about, is if there will be what kind of efforts on the local level there might be to reduce food waste. I sat in on a conference about environmental health in schools and one of the sessions was about how the participation in the National School Lunch Program requires these meals to have five elements. The protein, the dairy, the fruit, the vegetable, the grain, but that you don't have to serve all five, that you offer all five, but that a student must take either a fruit or vegetable, but then the other two they can choose, and that efforts like that have reduced food waste at a local level. So I'm curious if maybe those efforts will be next.

[John Brucato]

Yeah, interesting. Yeah, I'm curious to see how that all plays out. But you know, overall, very, very great news. So congratulations to NISBA and to all the organizations and to Ashley, the CRIs to everybody. Yeah, to everybody in the grassroots effort just to make this come alive. So I'm excited to see how this really pans out throughout the legislative process. So another big thing that really got the attention of educators across New York State was the concept of reducing screen time. I think a lot of us can agree that screen time, social media has had some really impactful, unfortunately negatively impactful effects on students. But to see something like this in state education policy is another thing. Dealing with it on a local level is another as well. So can you tell me how Governor Hochul has approached this to reducing screen times for students? What kind of details have been released so far and what could it really mean for individual schools across the state?

[Caroline Bobick]

Yep. So the details were released on Tuesday in the executive budget. And I know that this is a national issue and governors around the country are coming up with their own proposals. So here's, here's what has been proposed in New York, the Distraction Free Schools initiative. It requires schools to adopt a policy by August 1, 2025, prohibiting the use of they kept using Internet enabled devices.

[John Brucato]

So it's not just smartphones, anything that really is connected.

[Caroline Bobick]

But there were exceptions to that. Such as it would not apply to cell phones that don't have the ability to access the Internet. It would not apply to devices provided by the school district that are used for educational purposes, personal devices that are authorized by a teacher or a school to be used for a specific educational purpose. There were a lot of exceptions included. The prohibition would not apply to the usage of a cell phone or other Internet enabled device for managing a student's health. The event of an emergency. Translation services was also included as an exception. And also usage pursuant to a student's IEP or 504 plan. Those were all exceptions. And then there was also a reporting requirement that by starting September 1, 2026, that schools might have to report on the the discipline results of of this this policy. And if there are were any disparate disciplinary actions taken that they might that they would need to mitigate that. Now that reporting language might, that might get altered or changed in, in budget negotiations, we'll have to see. And there was also a $13.5 million appropriation included in the budget to support districts in the implementation. And we would have to see what that looks like if that in is money moving forward or if that takes into account that a lot of school districts have already started to implement these policies and they've already invested in in yonder pouches or other ways to help students Put away their cell phones. If that would provide a reimbursement for costs already undertaken or only future costs, we don't know yet.

[John Brucato]

Interesting. So I guess if you're a student with a Nokia from the earlier 2000s, you're okay because there's no Internet on it, you're good.

[Caroline Bobick]

Everyone is going to buy those phones now, right?

[John Brucato]

Flip phones are coming back. So I'm so glad to see that. So is there any specific language in terms of how districts have to approach the reduced screen time? I mean, do students have to put their phones in their lockers? Can they not even come on campus? Or is it really just up to the school district to develop those policies and put them in writing and submit them to the state for, for review.

[Caroline Bobick]

Lockers are allowed and they actually did state that in the language, so I'll read some of it to you. So the governor referred to it as a bell to bell ban.

[John Brucato]

Okay.

[Caroline Bobick]

The school day was defined as all instructional time and non instructional time, including but not limited to homeroom periods, lunch break, recess, study halls and passing time. As far as the policy as the how the policy must include one or more methods for on site storage where students may store their Internet enabled devices during the school day, which may include student lockers.

[John Brucato]

Interesting. And you mentioned one of the exceptions is, you know, if a school district, for instance, doesn't have the means financially to provide devices to every single student, a lot of districts have pivoted to bring your own device they use those for in classroom instruction. Do you anticipate there being an issue and the nuance between a teacher allowing kids to use the device and maybe a kid stating that they were allowed to use it? But I could see those being disparate disciplinary issues there. I mean, how do you think the state's going to really approach that? Or is it just really we'll have to wait and see?

[Caroline Bobick]

That's a great point. Maybe that $13.5 million would be used in an equitable way to make sure those school districts where there are more inequities are able to purchase that. But you know, iPads cost more than yonder pouches. And I think when they were probably when they were figuring out what kind of appropriation to tack on, it was probably more with yonder pouches in mind rather than more money for one to one devices. Yeah, there are certainly a lot of considerations there. There are. You know, we're grateful that there were exceptions here that if a teacher authorizes a student to, to use their personal device, then they may do so. But you bring up a great point that there is an inequity in, in students owning those types of devices and it would be more funding for one to one devices I think is an important issue, especially considering the threat of E Rate discontinuing and schools do receive money from E Rate to help with their broadband access, um, if they lose, if they lose that funding and now and also have to deal with this. Yeah, it's, it's a big concern.

[John Brucato]

So turning our attention to really kind of the zooming back out to the budget in general. You know, we talked about reducing screen time as a, as a policy piece. We talked about school meals initiative and a little bit about save harmless. You know, those could be considered wins in this budget. From your perspective, do you feel that there are other big wins in the governor's 2025 proposed executive budget?

[Caroline Bobick]

Yeah, I think the word I used much earlier was muted and I'll use that again for general operating aid foundation aid formula that the Rockefeller report put forth. All of these recommendations and two recommendations were taken, which honestly is not out of the ordinary for budget talks. So on the one hand, it's not a bad, it's not a bad budget.

[John Brucato]

That's so nice to say because we've had a lot of them.

[Caroline Bobick]

As far as foundation aid goes, two of the changes are, they're both updates to how student poverty, how poverty is calculated and those have been things that the advocates have mentioned. The budget does not attempt to review the successful schools model. And the Governor indicated that she is still open to long term discussions. But we'll see. Like you said last year she was so anti save harmless and this year, of course we're not going to cut funding for school. So we'll, we'll see what that amounts to in, in reality.

[John Brucato]

And a guaranteed 2% increase for even those that are on save harmless, which was even more of a surprise.

[Caroline Bobick]

Yes, yes. Yeah. Back in, back in the Cuomo days, he would often, he would often offer a quarter percent minimum increase. That was kind of normal. And then through budget negotiations it would, it would increase a little bit more. But starting off negotiations with a minimum 2% increase is quite nice.

[John Brucato]

Yeah, absolutely. So it's great to see that some forward progress is being made on Foundation 8. I mean, you had mentioned two of those recommendations were pulled from the Rockefeller Institute. So having gone through it, I'm excited to see that we're no longer going to be using Census data from 2000 and actually using more relevant data points because it's like Everything had been frozen in time for so long. Districts, demographics have changed massively. So being able to actually correlate the funding to what the districts are experiencing day to day is super important. But to your earlier point, there could be winners and losers because it's very much kind of careful what you wish for because if your demographic change such that you'd be getting less funding, save harmless is something you want to hold on to for as long as possible. So I, I guess, I guess we'll see what happens moving forward. But to your point, a muted budget, albeit a good budget, I think relative to what we've seen in, in recent history. Do you see on the other, on the other side of the coin, are there any challenging aspects that were brought up in the budget that districts really need to be concerned about or kind of get their advocacy hats back on and kind of approach? Or is this really just kind of a. I, I hate to say it, but kind of a boring year for, for state finance.

[Caroline Bobick]

So what, I wouldn't, I would phrase it as what are challenges that school districts are facing that were not addressed in the budget? And there's a huge glaring one for New York and that's the mandatory transition to zero emission buses.

[John Brucato]

Yes.

[Caroline Bobick]

So in New York, all new school bus purchases must be zero emission by 2027 and all combustible engine buses must be off the road by 2035. This timeline is unrealistic and I want to share some information that my brilliant colleague Matt DeLoss was able to dig up. The Public Service Commission ordered the Joint Utilities of New York to analyze the current electrical capacity of every square school bus depot in the state. And do you want to know what they found?

[John Brucato]

I'm, I can guess, but yes, I want to know.

[Caroline Bobick]

So 15% of districts do not have the electrical capacity to support a single zero emission bus.

[John Brucato]

Wow.

[Caroline Bobick]

I'm not surprised. Right? Just days earlier, NISBA released a letter with all the other members of the ecb. Because this is what we do, we come together and when we have a shared issue, we, we release papers with a unified voice. We included a number of recommendations to ease some of those burdens on school districts, such as the state covering the cost of the transition. And that recommendation was actually included in the Rockefeller report too. One thing that some people have been latching onto now is that there should be a district specific fleet implementation plan where every district undergoes its own feasibility analysis with its own own realistic timeline. So I think because the budget was so favorable for education this year, that's going to Be a major focus of ours.

[John Brucato]

Yeah, yeah. That's been looming over our heads ever since that was signaled as something we had to do that I don't believe the dates have changed since it was originally announced. And those dates are encroaching on us even quicker and quicker. So, you know, personally, I've done my own feasible in the process of doing a feasibility study, but you know, where I'm located in the state we're so densely populated, to try and shoehorn in charters and make sure the grid can, you know, handle all of that is incredibly challenging. So I'm sure that I probably fall into one of those 15% districts, but it's just, it's going to be incredibly challenging. So I like your idea of each district kind of approaching it individually and being on their own timeline, I guess, within reason. But to be able to expect all districts to be complete by, you know, in the mid-30s is just, is, I think, a bridge too far. So let's kind of wrap up here, just talking a little bit more about advocacy. I mean, this conversation has been so rich in positive outcomes of why advocacy is so important and really showing that it does make a difference. Can you tell our listeners just what do you see as some of the most effective strategies for influencing education policy?

[Caroline Bobick]

It depends on what you're advocating for. How big is the item? If it's, I'm going to give an exam. We've been talking about some pretty big, wide reaching items and I want to talk about a small one now because advocacy can take different forms. There was something very specific that one school district was looking to accomplish. They were, they wanted to ease some administrative burdens on their health staff in Ithaca, New York. And so the Ithaca school district had already started talking with their local legislators about drafting a bill that would, that would just make, make it easier for health staff to upload student immunization data. They had to do it one at a time, and it was just very time consuming. And that wasn't the best use of the health staff's time.

[John Brucato]

Right.

[Caroline Bobick]

So instead of working alone as a school district, they went through our process at the state level. They utilized a state association and they put forth a resolution to be voted on at our business meeting. And so it was, it was not controversial. Sure, there, there's an administrative burden that no one that others had not thought to, to bring to anyone's attention before. But okay, there could be a legislative change to make, make this a little bit easier and faster. Okay, so it passed. No. With no little to no Discussion. And then once it passed, it became a statewide issue and statewide associations, we, you know, we have our governmental relations departments and we, we first we had to make sure very gracefully their local senator was in the minority party. So he very gracefully understood that, you know, we, we wanted this to pass. It was not a school district specific bill, it was a statewide bill. And, and so he worked with someone in the majority party and he passed it off, but he was, you know, co sponsor of it. And then we, we made a, a lobby day just on this bill. And it was during COVID so it was a virtual lobby day. Everybody could participate. We invited people from around the state. We also invited people who were in the health sector. You know, we reached, we reached out to the people who might be affected. And we met with sponsors, we met with the chairs of the, the committee where it was passing through the bill. We met with the central staff, central staff along the way that it was going to go through health and then it was going to go through, it was going to stop in codes. And so we met with all the central staff who would kind of vet the bill before it move it moved along. And the, and the bill that probably was on nobody's radar moved right along and passed in one session. And what it allowed the staff to do was instead of having to download and upload one at a time, it seems like nothing, but they can now batch download information from the student from statewide immunization registry.

[John Brucato]

That's great. So really the moral of the story. No idea. Is too small for advocacy, right?

[Caroline Bobick]

Yeah, I just want to share that story. To say that you might think something like, oh, this is really a pain in my tuchus. You know, I wonder if anyone else is having this issue. Can we change it? If you start to elevate that, there are other people who will also say, you know what, that would make my life easier too. And you can make a difference and reach out to your statewide association. So that's kind of a smaller issue, but on the grander scale. I really want to point out that I think advocates for a while were losing hope that foundation aid would ever be fully funded. And it technically is, with the two changes to the formula, it is not only fully funded, but like you said, there are many districts who are receiving more because of Save Harmless and those minimum increases year after year. And that just took, it took people coming to Albany and talking. It was a very unified voice. Every kind of education advocate, whether they were the equity advocates or the, or the teachers unions or the school boards or for years since, since foundation aid was created with, with a unified voice. These people who represented very different kind of kinds of members, they all said, fully fund foundation aid. And they came to Albany every year and they said, fully fund foundation aid. And you heard it again and again and again like a broken record. And I'm sure that they felt very discouraged. But one day a budget passed and said, all right, we're going to try this again. Three year phase in plan. We're going to try it. And we all held our breaths for three years, but they, they stuck with it. All right, fully fund foundationing, and there are going to be annual bumps along the way because every year negotiations might change the way it's funded, but we're, it was really transformative that we actually reached that. And so in New York State, what I want to say to advocates now, I think people in the career and technical education field, I think are feeling discouraged that they come to Albany every year. And in New York State, there's a salary cap limit for career and technical educators of $30,000. And that limit has been in law since 1992. And they come to, they come to Albany and say, you say that you care about career and technical, that you care about preparing kids for careers. And these, these programs are popular and effective. Invest in them, right? 1992, year after year, raise the salary cap, raise the salary. And NISBA includes it in all of our testimony every year, Our testimony, our priorities. But if we didn't say it, it would be forgotten and it would never get raised. And one year it will get raised. And so even if you sound like a broken record and even if you are discouraged that nothing ever happens, one day something will happen and you have to keep going back and you have to keep repeating your message.

[John Brucato]

It's such a great message. I mean, it can be discouraging. And I remember feeling that year after year with Foundation 8. And to your point, when that budget came out, that said, okay, we'll phase it in over three years, to your point, we did hold our breath, but it was just such a momentous feeling of relief because we put a lot of effort into that. So I second your, your words of wisdom. Do not give up and just, and just keep advocating on, on behalf of schools and kids. All right, Caroline, what is your, what's your docket like for the next few months up until April 1st? Like what, what do you have to now contend with from today moving forward for the next couple months?

[Caroline Bobick]

I. So next is the, the budget hearing on Wednesday we have our Capital Conference that is a virtual conference where we reach our members and give them a presentation on the executive budget. We also connect our members with the chairs of the Education Committee, with journalists, with folks from the Education Department and folks on the governor's education policy team. And then that's followed by our lobby day sprinkled in the middle there. We're flying off to D.C. to do our federal lobbying. And then on the local level, folks are having, they're having legislative breakfasts with their local representatives, and sometimes we'll go to some of those. And then March is going to come along and we will, we will read what the Senate and the assembly have, how they respond to the executive budget, what they might add, and then we just continue advocating through through April.

[John Brucato]

Wonderful. Well, I wish you, your organization and all the other sister organizations the best of luck in this year's budget advocacy process. I may even bump into you in Albany one of these days up there educating myself. But Caroline, thank you so much for joining me on School Business Insider today. You've shared so much in terms of how advocacy is so important and why you shouldn't give up. So thank you again and best of luck this budget season.

[Caroline Bobick]

Thank you.

[John Brucato]

Thank you for tuning in to School Business Insider. Make sure to check back each week for your favorite topics on School Business.