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- [00:02]
A
You're listening to asbo international's school business insider. I'm your host, john brucato. Each week on School Business Insider, I sit down with school business officials and industry experts from around the world to share their stories and explore the topics that matter most to you. Find out what it means to be a school business official and get your insider pass on all things school business. Hello everyone, and welcome back to School Business Insider. School construction and capital projects involve much more than bricks and blueprints. They require strong communication, shared understanding, and the ability for educators and construction professionals to truly speak the same language. Today I am joined by Matt McGregor and Nicole Schweitzer of Hoffman Planning, Design and Construction to discuss the recent School Business now article, Speaking the Same Helping School Leaders Navigate Design and Construction Conversations. We'll explore the communication gaps that can exist between school leaders and project teams, how districts can better navigate the design and construction process, and why alignment, transparency, and trust are essential to successful projects. Nicole and Matt, welcome to the podcast. Happy to have you both.
- [01:22]
B
Thank you.
- [01:23]
A
So let's jump right into it. Matt, I want to kind of take broad strokes here. Why do you think communication challenges often really emerge during school construction in capital projects?
- [01:34]
C
So a lot of it really falls down to some of the items we talked about in the article was relaying to just terminology. Construction managers and architects use much different terminology than what school officials are going to see in their day to day life cycle. So some of that terminology tends to become a little bit different, difficult, and puts up a lot of barriers between what we're taking, what is taking place either during the design process or on site during a construction project. And some of that terminology really just it drives barriers up and it caused some frustration.
- [02:17]
A
And where do you think it starts to really kind of remedy that before it becomes too big of a problem? Is it on the architects and the construction folks to realize that maybe what they're using in terms of terminology isn't necessarily used in schools? Or is it on the school side to say, hey, we don't really use that terminology in schools? I mean we use a lot of acronyms, but we may not be using the same kind of construction language. Where do you kind of thread that needle in terms of making sure everyone's really on the same page with, you know, how these things are being laid out?
- [02:46]
C
It's really just a broad understanding from both parties to make sure that there is clear expectations and really trying to make it as common knowledge for everybody on what topics are being covered and making sure that there Is an understanding across the board when topics are being discussed, asking clarifying questions, making sure that all parties are in the know as far as what is taking place.
- [03:14]
A
Great. And, Nicole, as a former superintendent, I'm sure you've had plenty of these experiences. Can you tell me a little bit about your experience firsthand when you were working with architects, contractors, project teams? I mean, not just in terms of terminology, but really why communication was so important throughout? I'm sure many projects that you've. You've overseen.
- [03:31]
B
Yeah. The communication is pivotal to both teams, the school team and then the construction architect team to understand truly what the vision is. We don't want one project being envisioned by one team and the other team not envisioning that same project. So very open and very articulate. Detailed communication is very important. You mentioned whose kind of responsibility is it to say, I'm not understanding what you're talking about? And I would say it's a mutual understanding, whether we're using acronyms or we're using our professional jargon, or we're just talking, you know, normal language. If there's something that we are uncertain of or even just to simply clarify. Let me just make sure that we're understanding this the same way that we're seeing this project coming to fruition. To fruition. The same way. I think the responsibility is on both the school and the construction professionals to ensure that we're talking the same language, that we're understanding the same vision, and that we are able to have that good communication so that no one takes exception when they're questioned, but rather they understand that we're only just seeking to clarify and to ensure that the project is delivered and that the outcome is exactly what both had envisioned.
- [05:04]
A
So making sure everybody understands we're all on the same team, we can be a little bit vulnerable. We're not really calling each other out because we don't know one thing or another. Right?
- [05:13]
B
Yeah, I think that's a good way to put it, John. Certainly, as educators and educational leaders, we don't know all of their terminologies, and they have that same. That's not a terminology we understand. So it's just being able to say, hey, can you just explain that a little bit more? Can you, you know, paint me a picture? Draw me a picture. You know, like, oh, okay, we're talking the same thing. You refer to it as this. We refer to it as that. Kind of like Kleenex and puffs. We're all talking facial tissues here. Right, Right. It's kind of those Types of things that we have to just be able to have that respectful understanding that we both bring expertise in our areas, and those expertises need to be able to blend in a strong communication partnership. So that, again, that completed project is exactly what we both envisioned.
- [06:04]
A
And I wonder too, where does the communication with into the community kind of factor into this? Because obviously, when you're undergoing a major renovation, the community's going to be involved. Many districts have the community vote on projects like this. If you don't have your own house in order, how are you going to effectively communicate to the broader community at large? So what has been your experience in terms of, okay, we've got the same language internally. How do we ensure that the community is aware of what we're trying to accomplish?
- [06:33]
B
Yeah, that's another great question, Jen. The big piece, I think, is making sure that you are having meetings. Often that those meetings are clearly communicating what is expected, what is envisioned, and then just affording your community members who attend that very comfortable environment to feel like they can ask a question, too, and not feel like they're being judged. Like, what do you mean? You don't understand what a supporting beam is like? No, we don't ever want that to happen. Right, right. And so, again, I think as much as we have that open line of communication with the architect and the construction manager, we want the community to have that same open line of communication. What we benefited from twofold, that I think is really, really tantamount to the communication piece is a. From a school district standpoint, I had one point of contact when we built with Hoffman, One point of contact. So it didn't matter what my question was related to. It could have been legal, it could have been architectural, it could have been construction, it could have been management, it could have been code, whatever it was. I had one point of contact at Hoffman, and then his responsibility was to get that information and share it back with me. So I didn't have to worry that I needed to know which person to talk to for what it was that one point of contact. And that was very tantamount because then together we built that shared understanding of our different perspectives and also our different expertise and language. Right. Same thing for the community. You want the community to see your school officials and you know pretty well those same people from your construction and architectural team at every meeting, so that they are speaking with the same people all the time. They're getting that same message. And we're also building that same background of understanding about what this project is going to be and what was your
- [08:43]
A
experience too, when you were on the. In the superintendent role? Did you, as the superintendent, were you the main point of contact that was communicating out the aspirations of a project to your board and community? Did you defer to your architectural team to get into the weeds, or was it some kind of hybrid between the two? And did you have to maybe coach your architectural firm on kind of the nomenclature and language that we as educators use? What was your experience in terms of just the. Just communicating out a prospective project to the community?
- [09:11]
B
Well, in terms of a multiple choice, I'm going to say D all of the above, really. It is really all of that. You want that one person on that architectural community construction management team. They want one person at the school too. So if they're communicating like, oh, we need to make sure that we've got our ducks in a row to start breaking ground, they want to know that they have one person at this school that they can contact and then that one person is going to do the same thing that they're doing on their side. They're going to go out and they're going to get the information, they're going to share it. That doesn't mean that it's only these two people talking ever, but it means that we have those two pivotal points of contact that have the responsibility of getting the information and bringing the other person or persons to the table that then might have that expertise that you can defer to. So if it's something from a building and ground standpoint, Jodi from Hoffman would contact me, we would talk, I would grab my facilities director and then together, Ryan and I might jump on a call with Jody and maybe Matt or Todd as architects and project managers. So Jodi and I were the key communicators, but then we brought in, looped in those additional experts and continued to build the background and the team. So that again, that commonality of understanding, of communication and that finalized product was being built amongst all of us.
- [10:46]
A
Right. So outwardly facing, there was one to two people that were kind of delivering the message, but internally you had. You're pulling different levers depending on the needs.
- [10:54]
B
Absolutely, yes.
- [10:56]
A
So I want to bring it back to really the disconnects between schools and project teams. What would you say overall are some of the most common misunderstandings or those disconnects between school districts and construction and design teams?
- [11:12]
B
Matt, you want to go first.
- [11:13]
C
So a lot of it, a lot of my disconnects that I have seen in the past is really going to revolve around budgets and change orders. Those are some of the bigger ones. I'm of course on the project management side. So those are the ones that I see most often. But right along with that, on the design side, the sign offset are specific phases and what is all encompassing of the design. We have had many, many times in the past where a client may say, well, we talked about adding a door here. How come this door isn't on the design? Well, it didn't fit within the budget, it didn't fit within the scope. And we're trying to manage to that overall. Or as Nicole had mentioned, there may be conversations that are happening downstream of the major decision makers and those parties are going to say, hey, how come that door wasn't installed? And that's where some of the communication seems to lag. On the design or architectural side, on the construction side, the budget is paramount, especially in school, in the school referendum market, just for the sense that we have a, we have a defined budget that we have to stick to. We cannot go over it. So we try to provide as much clear and concise documentation and visibility to the budget as we possibly can. But we do still have issues where maybe the school district may not understand what specific buckets are included in the referendum versus not included or what ones they're responsible for managing or procuring versus the contractors. So those are. And then that, that nasty word of change order. How does that actually get processed through the team who is making the overall approval on it, whether it's added or modified, scope, what have you?
- [13:07]
A
I do want to also follow up on change orders because I've been in a few different districts and boards of education approach them and have a different philosophy. Some are hard line, no change orders. We should get this all, you know, to scope as, as much as we can. Some are a little bit more flexible. I think they're pretty much inevitable because when you start opening walls and things like that, you never really know what you're going to find. So Matt, what has been your, your approach to really communicating change orders? Not necessarily as they're happening, but maybe progress priming everybody to say, listen, these are, these are likely to happen. It's just kind of the nature of the work. What is your approach to kind of ease tensions around change orders?
- [13:46]
C
Yeah, so our initial conversations, and Nicole can attest to this as well. I had the same conversations when she was in that superintendent role, is we're coming together as one whole team. The school district as well as our design and architectural and construction management team. We're all One going to have good conversations and we're going to have bad conversations. But we're all together to make great decisions moving forward to better and complete this project. And we internally set up contingencies as part of our projects. The school districts are well aware of what the contingencies are, where the dollars and cents land on those contingencies and what they're being used for. As you had mentioned, John, unforeseen items, whether you're cutting into a wall or into the ground and may run into some poor soils, well, we're going to identify those as soon as we possibly can get fair cost for them and then share them with the team. So we try to manage those contingencies all within our overall budget. So it's not a true change order that we're going above and beyond what our contract value is. We're basically moving some buckets of money around internal of our overall referendum budget to make sure that we're staying within those dollars makes sense.
- [15:04]
A
And so, Nicole, on your end of things, where did you find some of the most common misunderstanding cropped up in the whole process?
- [15:13]
B
So I would concur. You know, Matt's done an excellent job of articulating two of the three for us, the budget and the design. Again, I think it's communication from a school standpoint. It is the school leader's responsibility to be communicating with her board, with her building project or his building project team with the staff to say, up until today we can make changes, but as of this date, anything after that is going to be a change order. So you have to invest the time, you have to take the time. We have to have these hard conversations because we can't keep changing the design. So I think that's very important because as Matt mentioned, it's the budget too. You know, we can't, like, oh, all of a sudden now we want to add, as you know, a glass sliding door and a patio or we want to add solar panels. You know, budget doesn't allow for that and change orders are costly. So communication is key, especially within our own schoolhouse, if you will. The third leg of that disconnect stool, I would say, is probably the legal language that contract so that you understand what you as a school district are responsible for. And then you also understand what your architect and or your construction management firm or firms are responsible for. And that's very important because that defines what is or isn't a change order. That defines what you are not billed for with regards to additional copies of maps or, you know, Mailings and things like that. It. It's really, really important that when you are working with an AHRQ and a CM firm or firms, that you take the time and you invest your school dollars to having a legal consult review those contracts. So design, budget, and the contracts are, I think, the three biggest areas where we can see disconnects.
- [17:18]
A
Yeah, absolutely. And then just to kind of follow that up, where do you often see projects tend to get off track from a community communication standpoint? I mean, I've been a part of some projects where, you know, things can get a little tough sometimes, kind of to Matt's earlier point, and the architects pointing at the CM and the CM's pointing the architect, and we don't really know what to believe. But in your experience from communication, like, what has really put a project off
- [17:43]
C
track, it's really that understanding of, I don't want to say what they're buying, but an overall clear understanding of what the scope is. And that's where we've found some of our larger communication gaps coming in, is the client or the school district may not fully understand what they are getting as part of this referendum. They may have this grandiose idea of what they want, but maybe they didn't take the time to sit down and go through the design documents or maybe missed a couple of the meetings. And that's where we tend to lose ground on that communication side. Or things may start to fall apart. And it can be on the contractor side too. They may start moving a little bit too fast ahead of the school district, and they may need to. We may need to pause or slow down just to make sure there is that clear understanding. And it can happen on both sides.
- [18:46]
B
Right.
- [18:47]
A
And there's a lot to learn, especially if you're a new school leader or a new district leader and you're entering your first capital improvement project. It can be incredibly overwhelming. So what would you recommend that school leaders do to. To really avoid the confusion by technical language, timelines, and the construction processes?
- [19:10]
B
That's very true. I remember going through my first capital project and just the vocabulary, the vernacular, that was all very challenging. So with regards to not becoming overwhelmed because of that technical language, the best thing you can do is to ask. Ask for clarification, ask for an explanation. And then like we do as an educator, try to put it into our own words. Okay, so what you're. What you're describing then is this. I refer to it as that, but you refer to it as X. And to make sure that you're asking and then seeking that clarification, especially with regards to the technical language. In terms of not becoming overwhelmed by your timelines, what really worked well with myself, two different ways to attend to the timelines. One, I always had a map, if you will, a timeline visibly drawn out so that I knew exactly where I was. Because you know what, you've got this other thing called a day job and you've got to be able to do that. And that day job is going to interrupt the communication that you need to have at the time you need to have it with your construction manager or your architect. It's just not without fail, right? So I liked to have a printed version of a timeline. I usually used the demarcation points as sticky notes so that I could move them or I could draw an extra it and pencil it in further on down the timeline. But the visual helped me. It also helped anyone that had a question like, well, how come this was a great one. We passed the referendum in April. I think it was April 1st. And we had community members. That was a Tuesday, right? We had community members calling me already Wednesday afternoon. Where are the dump trucks? Where are the backhoes? And so, you know, to be able to say, okay, here's our timeline, or to invite them in or to take that paper timeline with you and be able to share it at a community meeting was tantamount to their, their ability to understand. We know when we educate people that it's not just auditory and it's not just visual and it's not just kinesthetic, it's a multitude of mediums. And so that was what really worked well is to have that, that visual and then also to have those weekly checkpoints. So communication can really get waylaid and off track when you aren't at each meeting, when your team isn't at each meeting. Because then you got to catch somebody up and ultimately you're going to miss something, right? So a commitment I feel a school district has to make to their architect and to their CM is we will always have these people at every meeting because you have to continually have that shared background, right? And then you would also ask, you know what, what else? You know, how else could we make sure that you didn't become overwhelmed by the construction process? And again, if you are attending those weekly meetings and you're talking with your construction people, that's one way. The second way is, you know, talk with your project manager, your senior project manager and say, hey, can I get a hard hat and some steel toed shoes and some glasses. And can you just take me around every other week so that I can speak, especially before board meetings that, you know, I used to do that. On our first build, I would go around with our project manager right before our board meeting so that I could give my board an update and anybody else that was there. So actually, physically being out there on that job site is another way to make sure that you're not being overwhelmed with questions coming in that then you feel like you don't know how to answer.
- [22:58]
A
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- [24:44]
C
So it starts with clear, honest, and transparent communication. Setting those expectations early. All right, Mr. Superintendent, Mr. Or Mrs. Superintendent, who are the decision makers at your district? Let's get them as part of a committee, and let's. Let's formulate A process as to how we're going to go through this project from start to finish. As architects and construction managers, we know how the project is going to progress. We have a very close understanding of what the scheduled dates are going to be as far as our milestones and when we feel it's going to be critical to have these meetings. So let's set the expectations with our clients early and the district and knowing who their decision makers are because each district is a little bit different. I've had districts that are decision makers are the school board. I've had districts where they put the decisions on a building committee which may be made up of some staff, some admin and some school board or I've had just administrators making the decisions on a referendum project. Each one of them is a little bit different. But understanding that early is going to be critical to how we are going to progress through and communicating strongly throughout the project. How does their board receive information? Do they want to do the on site tours? Do they want to do a one page weekly update? Having all those items out on the table and asking those questions early, it provides that clear understanding and clear expectation from both parties as to what they're going to see throughout the course of construction. And that setting that up early, it not only makes it easier for the construction manager and architect to understand what their steps are going to be, but it also allows the school district to know. Hey. Hey. Here are my checkpoints. This is, this is the lane that I need to stay in to make sure that this project gets completed on schedule and on budget.
- [26:49]
B
Great.
- [26:51]
A
Nicole, you had mentioned something earlier about the excitement from your community, wondering where the dump trucks were and everything as soon as the project got approved. Right. Obviously that's a very accelerated timeline. So I wonder what role does early stakeholder engagement really play in this process? I mean, anything from managing expectations to just going back to the clear communication to whether it be community members, staff members, your director of facilities. What role does that early stakeholder engagement play in a successful project?
- [27:21]
B
Yeah, it's pivotal. You need to early. Early on, like even as you're coming to review the data of your facility study and then all the way up, you've got to have those stakeholders at the table and you've got to be communicating that back out then to your community because you, if you don't, you're going to spend so much time having to rebuild the background knowledge that you all have been in. So we liken it to when a child has been absent from school for three days you know, you can't just bring them back in and expect that they're going to pick up right where they, they everybody else has been for the last three days. Right, right. You have to go back and you have to build all of that prior knowledge. Well, if you're constantly doing that, you're constantly working from a deficit. Right. So bring them along right away. Anybody that's going to be impacted. Get a teacher on your project team. You know, get your community members on your project team. One thing that I would highly encourage district leaders to do is to really look at your demographics and can you get someone on your building project team from your different demographics? So, you know, someone from, you know, they've got early elementary kids, someone that has middle school kids, someone that has high school kids, someone that is a grandparent, someone that is no longer involved in school because they don't even have grandkids in the school, you know, who are the stalwarts of your community. Make sure that you are looking at the populations within your district and you're trying to get a representative on that building project team and get that team together early and then be consistent all the way through from the first facility study data to, you know, when the light switch finally comes on and we get to do an open house, it's just tantamount to being able to have everybody have that same background understanding so that when someone comes and says, well, I can't believe you didn't put bulletproof wind or bulletproof glass in those glass doors for the tech ed room. There are eight other people that can talk to the back that we did discuss that three different times and here's why we didn't. So that's really, it's really just so tantamount to the transparency and for multiple people being able to speak to the same question with the same answer.
- [29:54]
A
Right. Well said. I'd like to focus in on really the role of the school business official as it relates to capital projects. So what role should the school business official play during not just the design, but the construction project or the construction piece of the project as well?
- [30:10]
B
For us in Chi Octane, there clearly was a partnership between myself as the superintendent and Mike as the school business official? Because I'm looking at it from really a 30,000 foot operational standpoint. Right. You know, what are we going to do when they go into the tech ed wing and we still want to be able to run classes and not lose any instructional time and then how am I going to ensure safety, security, accessibility, all of Those types of things such that that school business official can start looking at it from. Okay, well let's look at it from a budgetary standpoint. When will that tech ed wing be completed such that do we now need to bring on a part time custodial staff and then what are the benefits and the salaries and other expenses like that or like hey, we have to think about the timing of when we're going to make those payments to our AHRQ and our CM and our different vendors versus when do we get our monies coming in from the state? Because maybe we haven't had to, but this year we're going to need to get a resolution before the board to pass so that we can have short term borrowing opportunities. So to me it was a real important collaboration and really left and right hand working in tandem between myself as a superintendent and that school business official. And we're both looking at it respectfully through our lenses so that there is, you know, as few of gaps in our Venn diagram, if you will, as possible.
- [31:51]
C
Yeah, John, I think edit my comment out on that one because I was, I was misleading the school business official and superintendent. I apologize for that. Thank you for the clarification, Nicole.
- [32:05]
A
No problem. And then kind of a follow up to that. Nicole and Matt, feel free to jump in here as well. But you know, what financial or operational issues would you say school business officials really should be paying closest attention to during the entire process of the project?
- [32:21]
B
Well, certainly that payback schedule and when are funds coming in from both from the referendum as well as anything that we might have committed to from an operational standpoint that's going to be impacted. So that's certainly something that they have to look at that payback period and when you get your monies from your referendum and how much money you chose to go through. So like for us we chose to look at three different installments versus all, you know, 25 million at one time. Right. Because there were some very strong advantages to doing increments over the course of the three year time period. And again that's where your financial, your school business officer has to come in and help us out with. But also that school business official is going to be looking at it from, like I mentioned, the payments that are coming from the state and they're also going to be looking at it from internally with regards to the cost for additional staff. Or do we have to look at increase general liability insurances? Do we have to have a risk management insurance policy that maybe we haven't had to have before. There's just, it was just really amazing to me, like, as we peeled back the onion, that is a capital project. Mike and I would go back and forth on like, hey, did, did we really think about, you know, what this is going to do to summer school? Like, how is that going to be impacted? And we'd have to talk about, okay, what does that mean? Or do we know what it's going to do to the cost of our transportation if now we have to reroute the buses.
- [34:05]
A
Right.
- [34:06]
B
All those types of questions that if you are partnering very closely with your school business official who is looking at all the checks that are going out and all the invoices that are coming in, you really start to get into the minutiae of it. But, but the minutia, the devil is in the details, including the financial details. And that's where you'll cost yourself some money if you're not looking at it closely. Right.
- [34:31]
C
Cash flow is critical. It's established early on. And Nicole had mentioned building their bond sales around what our construction phasing schedule was critical for them because that allowed them enough number of different opportunities as to how those bonds were being distributed. And that school business official is, is going to be the one who would be really tracking that on a regular basis and, and does a great job of making sure everything is staying consistent from a checks and balances standpoint on that cash flow.
- [35:11]
A
All right, well said. You know, Nicole, you also, I, I also wanted to add, it just you were talking about, you know, implications on transportation in summer school. And I would just add too, in my own experience, do not underestimate the value of including your building level leaders too in these conversations because they're the ones running the buildings on a daily basis. And even though, you know, you may have been a high school principal back in the day and you've ascended through the ranks, you know, how buildings are run can change drastically year over year. So I've learned too, even if you don't think there could be a potential implication or impact to the building operations, it can't hurt just to get it out there and say, hey, high school principal, FYI, this, these solar panels are going up on Wednesday. We don't think it's going to be an issue. Do you foresee anything and there could be like, oh, we actually had a special event planned for these varsity teams. You know, those kinds of things crop up all the time. So I want to say, based on your experience, what are some of the best practices? Do you feel districts should Follow. Even before a project begins, there's a lot of communication, a lot of preparatory things that you have to do to ensure that a project goes off without a hitch. But before you even go to referendum, before you even consider that, what are some of those best practices?
- [36:28]
B
Certainly, I would say one best. One of the best practices is to ensure again that you are communicating to your community the need that you're going to eventually try to address. So for us in Shackton, it was communicating early on that we have a need for an electrical improvement. Our electrics dated back to 1960s. We had a need to be able to update our tech ed wing. Some of the equipment dated back to 1945. And we had a strong safety and security need because we didn't have any of those automated entrances that were very closely monitored. So it's really the best practice is you've got to get out there and start talking with your community about the needs that you're eventually going to want to be able to address. Now you can do that whether it's a fund 10 or a fund 46 or it's a referendum. But you need to get out there and build that understanding about the needs long before you ever ask them to give them some money. You've just got to do that.
- [37:47]
C
Yeah. And setting that prioritization early is what the critical goals are of the project. We've done an exercise on a lot of our projects, really on as to, all right, what are the ultimate priorities and what do we want to make decisions on revolving around this project And Nicole, Infrastructure updates, safety and security and teched. Those were the three critical ones when we were working with Nicole and Sha. And so a lot of the decision making we knew, all right, if it revolves around one of those three things that is, that is going to be rising to the top of the priority list. It really helps drive what they want to do going forward, how they want to structure, whether a referendum question or a maintenance project. Because if everything's a priority, then nothing's a priority. Right? Right. So getting that prioritization set early is critical.
- [38:44]
A
So the way we educate kids these days is different than it was 10 to 15 years ago. And so too, I'm sure, the expectations of communities and the way we are building projects. So I'm curious, how are school construction conversations evolving compared to 10 to 15 years ago?
- [39:05]
C
Well, virtual meetings are becoming a lot more prevalent. I had a period of time, this was going back to Covid. I was running multiple board meetings on one evening and I was able to do that just through the ability to have virtual meetings as opposed to sitting in a chair in a school board or a school library for a couple of hours on a Monday evening, that has, that has changed things immensely. As well as social media, Nicole, can attest to our ability to communicate out to the masses in your, in your school district through social media and the different avenues that we have at our fingertips.
- [39:49]
A
And nowadays Nicole, has social media in your experience been a double edged sword?
- [39:55]
B
Absolutely, yes. It cuts both ways, you're right. And I think again that's where you know, you really have to get out in front of it and be very proactive about the information that you're putting out there and making sure that you know, kind of going back to some of the questions you've asked about transparency, transparency in your communication is the same thing as transparency in your social media. So you know, make sure that you're posting that information to your website. I used to tell people if it's not on our referendum webpage, it's not authored by the school district because we would put everything that we issued on that website so that there was a clear archive of school authored communication. And if it's not in there then the school didn't say it, the school didn't, didn't talk about it kind of a thing. And that's I think really key.
- [40:50]
A
Right. And to your earlier point, a single source of information just like you had a single point of contact at your, your firm.
- [40:56]
B
Right, Right.
- [40:57]
A
So as we wind down here, final thought for both of you. With all of your experience and knowledge going through many capital improvement projects, what's the one thing you wish that every school district leader understood before even starting a project? Nicole, maybe we can start with you.
- [41:15]
B
The one thing a school district leader understood before even starting a project, I would say they need to understand that communication has to be a two way street. It has to be respectful of each persons and firms expertise that a capital project, growing a capital project is a lot like educating children and you have to be ready to start and be in it for the long haul with that education, that communication, that willingness to listen before explaining.
- [42:02]
A
Well said Matt.
- [42:04]
C
I I would really just the value of a trusted partner within your district that is paramount and I, I have seen it more times than not on that value can bring so many different things to a project. A lot of times school districts are looking bottom dollar low bid. There's a lot to say about the, the trust and, and collaboration when you're finding that right partner that brings value to the table.
- [42:37]
A
Great. Well, thank you both for your time today. Nicole and Matt, it's been a great conversation and some great wisdom in terms of building and executing successful capital improvement projects. Thank you both.
- [42:49]
C
Thanks, John.
- [42:52]
B
Thanks, John. Really appreciate it.
- [42:56]
A
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