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Tampa Awaits: A Preview of the 2025 Leadership Forum for School Business Leaders
00:56:45
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- [00:01]
John Brucat
Hey there, insiders. If you're loving these episodes, don't keep them to yourself. Like, subscribe and rate the show. Think of it as your good deed for the day. No spreadsheets or budget meetings required. Every rating helps us share the secrets of school business magic with the world, or at least school business leaders. So hit that subscribe button and leave us a review. It's like extra credit, but way easier. Thanks for helping us spread the word and support smarter schools everywhere. You're listening to ASPO International's School Business Insider. I'm your host, John Brucat. Each week on School Business Insider, I sit down with school business officials and industry experts from around the world to share their stories and explore the topics that matter most to you. Find out what it means to be a school business official and get your insider pass on all things school business. Hello and welcome back to School Business Insider. In this episode, we're diving into one of the most anticipated events for school business leaders, the ASBO International Leadership Forum. Happening this year in sunny Tampa, Florida from March 6 to 7, 2025, the Leadership Forum is a unique opportunity for school business officials to enhance their leadership skills, network with peers, and gain insights that will elevate their careers and organizations. Joining us are three distinguished guests. Sean Tracy, Director of Finance and Administration at Anglophone School District west in Canada, Sabrina Soto, Chief Development Officer at ASPO International, and Tamara Mitchell, Chief Financial Officer and Treasurer in Evanston skokie School District 65 in Illinois. Together, we'll discuss the value of attending the forum, its offerings for school business professionals, and reflections on past forums that have left a lasting impact. Welcome to the podcast, everybody. I'm so happy to have you.
- [01:56]
Tamara Mitchell
Thanks for having us, Don.
- [01:58]
John Brucat
Absolutely. So, Tamara, you've been on School Business Insider before. You're no stranger, but why don't you just give us an update on what's been going on in your life and a little introduction to kick us off. Sure, sure.
- [02:09]
Tamara Mitchell
Well, thanks again for having me on this episode. As John mentioned, I am currently the Chief Financial Officer for Evanston skokie School District 65 in Evanston, Illinois. We are a pre K through 8 district serving about 6,000 students. I am currently in the fifth month here in this school district, but I have many years of experience as a school business official. Actually about 19 years of experience as a school business official. I am currently the president of the Illinois association of School Business Officials as well this year. So that's really, that's it. I'm very excited to be heading to the Leadership Forum in Tampa in a few short months. Really looking forward to connecting with other school business officials there and really just learning more and developing more as a leader.
- [03:01]
John Brucat
Awesome. Well, welcome again. And Sean, how about you, why don't you tell our audience a little bit about yourself?
- [03:06]
Sean Tracy
Sure. As you said, I'm the Director of finance administration for Angelfone West School District. We're a school district of about 24,700 students. We have 70 schools, a mixture of K to 12 populations. I've been a school business official for this is my 26th school start. So I've been in my current role as Director of finance and min since 2012 and really enjoy the job. I've been past. I'm currently past president of New Brunswick ASBO and previous before that I've been president actually four times. So I've had the privilege to lead our organization a few times and anyway we've encouraged, we have a great group of young folks now that are starting to go into school business and I'm really encouraged for the future of our association and so I'm excited to see what our new president is going to do. But like Tamara, I've attended many leadership reforms over the years and really find it a valuable professional development experience.
- [04:26]
Sabrina Soto
My name is Sabrina Soto. I'm Asbo's chief development officer. I've been with Asbo for 17 years. I oversee our conferences, our education, our recognition programs and our corporate partnership program. And I'm very fortunate to work with an incredible team that makes this all possible.
- [04:48]
John Brucat
Great. Well, I'm so enthused to have of you on because as you've mentioned you've been to many leadership forums in the past. So I'm sure you're going to have plenty to share and why it's such a great experience. So why don't we get into that. So what makes the Leadership Forum a must end event for school business leaders and why do you find it so important to attend? I mean we're all incredibly busy, there's so much going on in our calendars. But you have to carve out some time for pd. Why this event specifically? Sean, why don't we kick it off with you?
- [05:14]
Sean Tracy
Sure. Well, for me I can't remember the first time I attended one, but in my asbo, I guess experience attending the AGM meeting and finding out about Leadership Conference and what it was, I call it a more a close knit session where it's a smaller group of school business officials. It's, it's, you know, it's, it's relaxed setting, you know, engaging chance to network with people from around North America and you know, and across the world. For people that have attended in the past, you know, I, you know, the Leadership focus, kind of like it's focused on direct professional developments to help you in your role as a school business official. And so I found the ones that I've attended, you know, a variety of different ones, some, you know, I've enjoyed more than others and but overall I always find something that I can take home and share with, you know, with my colleagues and share with my other professionals that are in school business.
- [06:26]
John Brucat
Great. And Tamara, you know, at that point you'll be what, nine or 10 months into your job, you're president of Illinois ASBO. You have a lot going on. But we were talking offline. You're going to the Tampa Leadership Forum. Why are you carving time out for this? Why is it so important for you.
- [06:41]
Tamara Mitchell
To go really, that leadership focus that is there with the Leadership Forum, we all go to our state affiliate and province affiliate professional development and conferences and what have you. However, the Leadership Forum is really focused on that aspect of it. It's not just the, our usual day to day things that we do as school business officials. It's really focused on developing us as leaders. And then as Sean mentioned as well, it's a more intimate setting, a smaller setting. So. And you're really connecting with people who may be serving at the state level or province level as well in their associations. We usually go or we always go with our executive director here in Illinois. So my attendance at the Leadership Forum has been during my time in board service for Illinois Aspel. So I'm really just looking forward to that intense focus on leadership growth and development and connecting again with other leaders as well across the country.
- [07:48]
John Brucat
And Sabrina, I mean you as Chief Development officer, can you really give us an overview of the Leadership Forum and really what attendees can expect this year in Tampa?
- [07:57]
Sabrina Soto
Yeah, I'm really excited about this year. In 2023 and 2024, we focused a lot on disc training. But this year we're offering Leadership Tracks which will help attendees identify different areas of leadership. And we're also adding Eagle Institute as a pre conference workshop.
- [08:19]
John Brucat
Oh, great, great. And is that, that's something new, right? Because Eagle Institute is usually broken out as something in like the July timeframe.
- [08:26]
Sabrina Soto
It is new and we usually cap it at 50 people. We're already at 59 registered for the year, so we're going to go to 60 in 2025.
- [08:36]
John Brucat
All right, sounds good. It Sounds like you're drumming up some excitement and maybe it's a little easier to kind of dovetail into the Leadership Forum with Eagle Institute right before it.
- [08:44]
Sabrina Soto
Yeah, I think some of the feedback we heard from our members is the difficulty on traveling as often for professional development. So I think this was a great decision.
- [08:55]
John Brucat
Great. And you know, we as school business officials are fortunate in the sense that we have multiple different channels of professional development. We have ASPO International, they have webinars. We have the Annual Conference and Expo which just wrapped up last month in Nashville. Our state affiliates and provincial affiliates offer PD locally. There's so many different options. How is the Leadership Forum different for professional development? You've talked about Leadership Focus specifically. You know, tell me a little bit more about that. What, what is, what differs the Leadership Forum from other professional development that you've been a part of in the past?
- [09:34]
Tamara Mitchell
I can start with that. So I think the major difference for me is the way that the Leadership Forum is structured. So for instance, when we go to the Annual Conference and Expo, the ASPA International Annual Conference and Expo, and even in my own state affiliate professional development, most of those sessions are an hour long. So it's really kind of a quick sit and get or even a quick interactive session and then you move to the next thing. With the Leadership Forum, it's more of an intense focus where the sessions are for longer, three hour long sessions, you're working at the table with other people, kind of interacting more collaborative based professional development. And one of the key takeaways for me over the last couple of years has been the Leadership Leadership Index that we did, the DISC assessment. So that was really a key takeaway for me over the last couple of years with the Leadership Forum.
- [10:39]
John Brucat
And how about you, Sean? How does the Leadership Forum differ for you? I mean, you're involved in your provincial chapter, you've been in the field for quite some time now. Why have you kept going back to that Leadership Forum?
- [10:53]
Sean Tracy
Well, similar to Tamara, I really like the format in that it's a focused couple of days talking about, I don't want to say a single topic in leadership because it could include multiple. Like the last couple of years with Lead Star, it has been, you know, leadership focus, you know, trust, the DISC assessment, emotional intelligence, those different topics. Right. That you really get to dig into. And you know, when you're in a large setting, like at an agm when I was in Nashville, you know, you're in for an hour, it's. You're sitting there, you're hearing information there's not a lot of interaction. And at the leadership forum, you know, there is interaction, right? You're called on to provide, you know, answers, which makes you more engaged because you know that someone is going to say, hey, Sean, what do you think about that? Or what do you have to offer on this topic? And so it kind of keeps you engaged. And you know, I find that those sessions, they're, they're extremely valuable that they challenge you a little bit as a leader. Right? So you're, you can't just sit there, you know, you're not, you're not playing on your phone, you're, you're, you're engaged in what's going on because you're actively learning and you know, you're interacting with the, with the leader of the, of the event and it makes the time go fast and your brain is working and at the end of it, you're like, wow, like, what a ride that was. And these are all the things that I learned and all the things that I can bring back to the folks that I supervise and places that I have influence in, you know, what kind of professional development will be offered to other school business officials.
- [12:39]
John Brucat
You both make such a great point with the really focused PD beyond an hour because there's only so much you can learn in an hour. Having presented at multiple conferences, there's only so much you can really present that's meaningful in an hour. But to be able to spend a couple days really hyper focused on just a couple of things specific around leadership, I personally have found incredibly valuable. And like you said, Sean, I mean, it goes by quick. Before you know it, the day's wrapping up and you're like, I can't believe we just got through 5, 6 hours of content and interaction. Just because it is so intentional. It's intense in the fact that you're hyper focused, but you just get so much out of it. Being able to kind of focus so intently on just a few things for an all day or multi day session. So I mean, that all sounds great in terms of professional development opportunities and why really somebody should consider the, the leadership forum. But as I said earlier, business officials are incredibly busy and it can be challenging to carve time out. So, Sabrina, for those who might be on the fence about attending, what would you say are really the top benefits of participating in a PD event such as this?
- [13:50]
Sabrina Soto
John, I think you bring up a great point because taking time out of the office is really challenging. But I think the leadership forum offers an opportunity to invest in yourself and your Leadership skills. While you're there, you can gain insights that you can bring back and implement in the district. So I think it's a great investment in your leadership skills.
- [14:11]
John Brucat
And is that a lot of the feedback you're getting from previous participants that they're actually able to glean something not only for themselves in these PD sessions, but are then able to really turnkey that in their district?
- [14:24]
Sabrina Soto
Absolutely. It's about improving yourself as a leader and then being able to come back into the district and take the takeaways from Leadership Forum and implement those in your district and with your team.
- [14:37]
John Brucat
Awesome. And then as part of that feedback, has the Leadership Forum changed a bit in terms of its offerings and how the content is offered, or have you really found, like the golden prescribed way of delivering this kind of PD that's very much interactive, like we've talked about already?
- [14:53]
Sabrina Soto
I wish I could say that we found this golden way, but honestly, based on feedback, we continue to change it, adapt the programming and try and meet the needs of the membership. So it's an ever evolving conference.
- [15:08]
John Brucat
Great. So in that same vein, when you think back to past forums that you've both attended, can you share with me any standout moments or takeaways that really led to a lasting impact on you, and maybe you could even share things that you were able to take back to your districts. Sean, how about you?
- [15:25]
Sean Tracy
Yeah, I would say, like in recent memory, you know, the last two years of the Leadership Forum, I've had the privilege to attend and I had a staff member come with me that I've been working with, trying to develop his leadership, you know, a junior manager. And anyway, he came along and we. And one of my colleagues was there with me as well, Aubrey Kilpatrick, and we sat together and the very first thing they did in the room is that they made us uncomfortable by making us sit with people we didn't know.
- [15:57]
John Brucat
A fan favorite, Right.
- [15:58]
Sean Tracy
There's the first challenge as a leader, right? You're there, you're going to be with your buddies and then you're not. But it's a great challenge to actually meet some new people and some of the relationships that I have formed over the years. Going to my first AASBO event in 2004 in Boston, it's been a long ride of meeting different people along the way. And with Leadstar, digging into your disc profile and seeing the kind of leader that you are. And I discovered, along with my two colleagues, that we are very. Although we think that we're very different people and we Are. We're very similar leaders and had very similar leadership style. And so that was interesting. And I also found, like, the activities that, that we went through at our tables, you know, the sheets that we had to fill out. And, and, you know, I was, I was sitting at the, at the table, and as the sheets passed out, I was always taking an extra one and shoving it in my little binder. And so Kristen, she saw me doing this and she's like, what. What are you doing? And, you know, I'm taking this back. I'm going to share this with my people, you know, and she's like, that's great. We can give that all to you electronically. You don't have to, you know, take extras. And anyway, so it's kind of funny. And so I've been able to take those things that I've learned, you know, building trust as a leader, you know, some emotional intelligence, you know, like, you know, thinking about how you're interacting with your staff and with your stakeholders and doing it in a respectful way. And, you know, taking what. I even said it this morning, a second sober thought before you make, you know, a decision and as a leader and if you're questioning that, you know, run it by somebody and talk it through. And you learn how to do that by going to things like a leadership forum where you're with other leaders and you just kind of take that whole experience and start to glean some little nuggets out of that information that you can wrap into your, you know, leadership style, whether it be servant leader or some other type of leadership style. You know, I've, I've. I've enjoyed the experience the last few years.
- [18:13]
John Brucat
Yeah, especially, I mean, the one that comes to mind is San Diego in 24, where we focused a lot on the disc profile. They had a sit with the same, the same disc profile and a lot of it. It was a big room and there was a lot of people that didn't know each other. But it was really nice to see that common thread in terms of leadership style, which kind of was an icebreaker in and of itself, just knowing that we're all similar in some way, even though we don't know each other. But it was, it was a great opportunity. And then, Tamara, what about you? What are some of those key standout takeaways that have really made an impact on you as a school business leader and maybe that you've even taken back to your districts?
- [18:51]
Tamara Mitchell
Honestly, I ditto everything that Sean said. It just even to the point of being placed at the table with people who you don't necessarily know, but you have similar leadership styles as determined by the DISC profile that we all took. It was really refreshing to get to know people with those similar leadership styles, learn from people, and really just have open and vulnerable conversations with people. Right. And then in learning about my own leadership style, also learning about the leadership style of others who I serve on the Illinois as well board with, applying what was learned to relationships and interactions with my boss and with other colleagues who I work with as well and those who I supervise. Just really being able to take a moment and mentally think about, okay, I think this person is an I, so let me interact with them in that way based on what I think their leadership profile or their personality is. So that was really helpful for me as a leader.
- [20:04]
John Brucat
Yeah, you make a great point too, with not only being able to work with similar leadership styles as yourself, but almost as importantly, knowing how to interact with other leadership styles. I mean, I know this episode isn't specifically about the DISC profile, but that's top of mind. And you know, in ASBO New York and our board, we did our own exercise with the DISC profile at our annual leadership in July last year, and we were already pretty familiar with it. But it was nice to kind of get that little preview before we went to leadership because we were able to just kind of articulate our boards different disc profiles, and then kind of correlate that to those that we were working with in the room. So you make such a great point that not only are you learning more about your own leadership style and those that are similar to you, but how do you interact with those that might be on the opposite end of that circle? And you got to kind of modulate your approach a little bit. So those are all great points. Thank you. What about any themes or discussions from previous forums that have really been valuable for you in your roles? Is there anything that kind of really sticks out to you? Did you have a moment when you were sitting at a table with a colleague and something came up in conversation and it's like, how would I have gotten this had it not been for the leadership form? Is there anything that really kind of stands out to you in terms of those individual themes or discussions you've had with your colleagues or otherwise?
- [21:22]
Tamara Mitchell
That's a great question. And there's so many memories and so many nuggets that come to mind. I just, I can't really land on one, really. It's always such rich conversation that comes up with the leadership forum and the topics that we're covering. Yeah, I don't know. Sean, what about you? What do you think?
- [21:44]
Sean Tracy
So when I learned about the questions for this thing, I actually grabbed something that we recently did as a group as a result of a leadership with my management team. And so we went through one of the exercises called you'd vision for your leadership. And there were three questions that I remember when we had it passed out to us, you know, we had to, we had to kind of dig into. And you know, when you, when you come into those events, right, you're coming in, you don't really know what it's about. You're like, you're kind of learning as you go, you know, as to what the lead star in this case, what it was going to be and what, what, how much interaction is going to be, how much, you know, extroversion you're going to have to drum up within yourself to participate in, in the event, right? So.
- [22:30]
John Brucat
Because not everybody's an extrovert that goes to the leadership forum, right?
- [22:32]
Sean Tracy
No, they're not. Right? You're, you know, you're dealing with a lot of financial folks and not everybody is great out there, right? So you have to find your inner extrovert. And anyway, so I found that, that, that exercise we did, you know, like, kind of figure it out in your own mind, you know, what kind of leader that you aspire to be. You know, how you can be an intentional leader in how you support those that are working with you. You know, like, are you, you know, a yes man, you say yes to everything? Or are you, are you, you know, challenging people when they, you know, they come up maybe short of what your expectations are, but you do it in a professional and supportive way, right? You know, and recognizing that people, and they come to work with all kinds of different things going on, right? So I found that exercise to be very, very inspirational. But there was a lot of those, especially on the first leadership one I did with Kristen. And then the next year, you know, in San Antonio, I signed up for the same, you know, district based approach with her again. And I just found the. For me, anyway, maybe it's not everybody's cup of tea, but I like the, you know, the fact that you had, like, things to work on, you had time to think about what you were doing with the people you were working at the tables with. And I just found it to be very helpful. And so I've been this year, and in my district, I developed, you know, a PD plan for my leadership team. And I have a leadership moment in every one of our sessions together, our managers meetings. And so a lot of them come from either from the Leadership Forum or from, you know, the SPO magazine, you know, articles that are in there that I can glean some things from to just, you know, help help my folks a little bit with their, with their job. And so I really see myself in my role, you know, as, you know, that person that's going to spend the time that you need to, to help your leaders grow because the rest of the time they're working on all the stuff and they don't really have time to do that. So you need to give them opportunities. So then you engage them in opportunities to attend an AGM with asbo, which here in New Brunswick, my colleagues and I, we all send our folks to those events and we recognize the importance of a Leadership Forum as well and have sent multiple people to that as well.
- [25:04]
John Brucat
So your staff really has an indirect benefit from the Leadership Forum too because you were able to glean things from the leadership form that you're able to take back to your home district and now really implementing those, it sounds like on a regular basis. That's great.
- [25:17]
Sean Tracy
Yeah, yeah, it's been great.
- [25:19]
John Brucat
And so you both have talked about the networking piece a little bit, but I think that is such an intangible benefit to these conferences and Leadership Forums. I mean, you know, we talked a little bit about AC&E. It's such a massive conference and you get to really connect with your peers. But here at the Leadership Forum it's a much more intimate personal opportunity to connect with school business officials and like minded folks from all over the world. Tell me a little bit more about how the Leadership Forum has helped you connect with your other leaders in school business and really help build your professional network. Tamara, how about you?
- [25:54]
Tamara Mitchell
I would say the Leadership Forum beyond it goes for me, it goes beyond the annual conference and expo as far as networking and connecting with people. When you go to acne, it's everyone, all different levels within a school business, whether it's people who may be payroll professionals or other ancillary services, all the way up to school business officials. With the Leadership Forum, it's more leadership based in terms of people who are kind of sitting in that number one seat in their business office. It's executive directors of the state and provincial affiliates. So it's the higher level of leadership and then the as well international board is there as well. So just being able to connect with them and build relationship with them beyond what you're able to do with Annual conference and expo every year with as well international. So it just, it takes that networking to the next level for me in terms of connecting with people who are, I guess at higher levels within their associations, whether it's their provincial or state associations, and higher levels within their school district as well.
- [27:06]
John Brucat
Right. And you had mentioned prior that you have been doing this a lot alongside your Illinois AS BO board. Is that something that your board has identified as an annual thing, a professional development thing for your, for your board is to go to the leadership form?
- [27:20]
Tamara Mitchell
Yes. And we've even expanded it since I've been on the board. So when I first joined the board, it was limited to the executive director, the deputy executive director at the time, but now that position was eliminated in the cfo, and then just the four officers. But now we have expanded it to be the executive director, the cfo, the four officers of the association. And then we also invite two of the directors from each cohort. So the director served for three year terms.
- [27:53]
John Brucat
Okay.
- [27:54]
Tamara Mitchell
And so we invite two of them from each cohort to be able to go. And they can, those directors can go one time in their three year service. And so then if they move forward as an officer, then they will get to go for that next four years. But yes, we've definitely increased that participation and has helped us as a board as well to be more productive, to grow more as a board as well. So definitely one of our priorities.
- [28:23]
John Brucat
That's great. So I mean, the value speaks for itself right there. You're willing to expand that to the rest of the board. And you know, I think having adopted a similar approach in New York, we really see the value as a, as an ASPO board to go as a, as a cohesive team. Because we come back really thinking about these issues very similarly and it's really helped kind of develop us as a leadership team for our state. And Sean, how about you? I mean, how have you been able to kind of really expand your professional network with other SPOs? And as a result of the leadership forum.
- [28:57]
Sean Tracy
You know, I've met, I've had opportunity to meet some, you know, I think back to like, I think it was one of my very first forums. I think it was in Miami and I met, you know, a, a couple of guys there, one from Atlanta and then another Canadian from Alberta. And I sat at their table and it was the forum focus was like these military guys, you know, they had like jet videos and all kinds of really cool, engaging stuff. And they were like real guy guys. They had one Navy guy and I was previously served in the Canadian armed forces as a Navy sailor. And anyway, so this was right up my alley. Like I was just laughing it right up and, and so I sat with those two individuals and one of them, you know, he's worked his way through, through asbo. It was on the board was just, was a Eagle Award winner. And I'm like, you know, you don't know who you're sitting by until you sit by somebody and you kind of watch them. And like he really, he really took off and you know, and we still remember that first form experience, you know, where we were sitting at the table together. I had a chance to go to Alberta ASBO and the fellow from Alberta was there and he's like, hey, I remember you from the forum in Miami. And I'm like, yeah, so you know, make those connections. And I'm actually going back to Alberta ASBO in June of next year to be, you know, an affiliate rep from New Brunswick as part of me being past president. And so you make some connections. You know, I met some wonderful people, you know, from around the world in Australia, you know, I remember meeting, meeting the lady from there and a couple other people as well and just having those shared experiences with like minded people. I find them very beneficial.
- [30:54]
John Brucat
Yeah, you never know who you're going to meet.
- [30:55]
Sabrina Soto
Right?
- [30:56]
Sean Tracy
I mean, you don't know. Right. And just in the ASPO staff that, because I've gone quite a long time and you just get to know them. So you show up and you're getting your hugs and all that after Covid hugs and you know, and it's nice to have this network of people that you never would have known had you not taken part and went to your first AASBO event and found the value in it and then make the case in my career there's been a few times that I had to make the case to go. I used the documents that ASBO puts out there to make the case and that helped me in those circumstances. Now I'm very fortunate now with the leaders that I work with now. He's extremely supportive of the operational side of our district and you know, you can plan to attend these things. You don't have to wonder, you know, you go through the process and if you want to go, you can go. And the main thing is that you're bringing back those deliverables, right. That you can, you know, share with your, with your team members and all that stuff. And so last year, as I was president last year in mbasbo and we had Lead star come. And it was the first time that we had ever done a full day, focused PD session, 100%, one provider for an entire day. And it was one of my goals as president to emulate kind of what you do at the leadership forum and have a focus. Because we had surveyed our group and they really wanted over 51% wanted leadership development. And I'm like, you need this. This is what leadership development looks like. And it's had an impact on me. And it was very well received. Some folks are to like the, you know, hour and a half or 45 minute session, right. So they found it a little long, you know, and whatever. But, you know, overall it was very well received. And the fellow from Leadstar did an excellent job with our team, leading us through, you know, the kind of the emotional intelligence framework and building trust as leaders and all those important things.
- [33:09]
John Brucat
Yeah, that's great. And so when we talk about leadership skills, that could mean a myriad of things. Can you talk to me more specifically about what specific leadership skills you think this forum offers to those that attend? Are they soft skills? Are there technical skills? If someone has never attended the leadership forum, what do they really, what can they look forward to in terms of what kind of skills they can develop? Sean, do you want to kick us off with that?
- [33:33]
Sean Tracy
Sure. I would say, you know, the very first skill would be, you know, like networking, you know, like to, to get comfortable, you know, talking to like minded people or not like minded people in some cases. You know, people that have different opinions and helping that, you know, grow your leadership and have the ability to interact with folks. And the other thing would be, you know, recognizing within yourself, you know, maybe areas of weakness that you have that, you know, that that's not one of your strengths. And maybe you focus on a strength and don't really focus on a weakness. So then you, something intrigued you at leadership and you're like, okay, well that's gonna, you know, help. Let me dig into that a little bit and help me be a more compassionate leader. Maybe you're a little bit too hard and you don't always, you know, give people the credit that they're due. Right. And one of the most valuable things I learned about is, you know, when you're, as a leader, when you have folks coming to you, you know, if you're sitting in front of your, you know, your monitor and one of your managers comes to speak to you and you're like fiddling on with your keyboard and, or looking at your document you were working on and they're talking, but you're not really listening. You know, you're doing your staff a disservice. Right. You really need to be engaged with them. Right. So, you know, being conscious of that as a leader, and you see that as a weakness, and you need to, like, take the steps to, like, okay, come out from behind your monitor, sit at your side desk, if you have one, and have a conversation with somebody and then show them that they're important and that you value what they say and you're there to support them as a leader. And you can get those skills in varying forms if you do some self reflection and then pick from what's being offered at leadership and see if you can concentrate on growing. That what you'd like to see in yourself?
- [35:34]
John Brucat
Yeah, I mean, like, you make some. So many great points, and even those little changes in how you interact with your staff can go a really long way. And, you know, being able to kind of reflect and self identify and, okay, if someone's coming into my office, do they have my full attention or am I just kind of half listening? You know, that makes. That makes a huge difference. And Tamara, what about you? I mean, anything specifically that has really changed your leadership in terms of how you approach things in the office that you've been able to glean from the leadership forum?
- [36:05]
Tamara Mitchell
I would say just the development of those soft skills. I agree 100% with being present. I have started doing that because we all get into that trap of we're busy, we're trying to focus on getting something done, and we think we are multitasking in doing so. But as Sean says, you really are doing a disservice, paying a disservice to the person who's in front of. So what I've started doing is if someone comes into my office, I will intentionally get up from my desk and go sit at the table that I have in my office and have them sit down with me to have that conversation there so they know they have my full attention and the response is better from the other person. And then it's also a different response as well. For me, I tend to remember more, focus more instead of being distracted and half in and half out of the conversation. Those other soft skills like just really learning to be vulnerable and kind of let that hard exterior down. Sometimes as leaders, we will have kind of a hard shell, but you have to be that way sometimes. But you also have to learn that balance of being vulnerable and building trust with people who you lead as well as people who you may report to as your superintendent or even the board. So those are really some things that I've taken away from the Leadership forum as well.
- [37:31]
John Brucat
So we talked a little bit about leadership skills and what Tamara and Sean are really been able to get out of the Leadership Forum and what skills they've been able to really develop over time. But, Sabrina, for you, what kind of sessions or workshops can attendees really look forward to this year? And, you know, how are they tailored to the needs of school business professionals? Because we are very niche in terms of what we do, but obviously ASBO International never falls short. But tell me a little bit more of what kind of sessions and workshops are going to be on the docket this year.
- [38:01]
Sabrina Soto
Yeah, this year we are actually focusing on leadership tracks. So on Thursday, we offer two tracks. One is more of a strategic association leadership for executive directors and their board to focus on best practices in board organization and structure. The other track on Thursday is our innovative leadership track, which will help attendees foster a culture of innovative thinking and behaviors. On Friday, again, they can pick between two tracks. One is communication and leadership, which obviously emphasizes on communication skills and relationship building. And the other track is a leadership behavior track, which focuses on leadership behaviors and how to inspire and motivate your team.
- [38:52]
John Brucat
Great. We did talk that a lot of the attendees are affiliate board members and they're executive directors. With so many offerings and tracks available, how is this going to kind of play out? Is it the affiliate boards kind of get together as a board and say, okay, I think we need to do this? Do you see some boards maybe bifurcating and some are going to one track and some of the other? What do you think is kind play out with that?
- [39:15]
Sabrina Soto
We've seen the popularity in this association, professional development, the symposium, growing each year. So we're seeing more and more of the execs bring their board for training. So this has been really a great opportunity for them, as well as the opportunity to participate on Friday in one of the leadership tracks.
- [39:37]
John Brucat
Great. And for these different leadership tracks, how are these being facilitated? Are you bringing facilitators in? Is that ASBO staff really running these sessions? Give us a little glimpse of what we can expect.
- [39:48]
Sabrina Soto
Yeah, great question. We'll have facilitators for each of the tracks this year. For the strategic association leadership track, we are actually changing up a speaker that we've had in the past. So we will have someone called Lowell Applebaum present on that.
- [40:06]
John Brucat
Let the Vision 35 task force.
- [40:08]
Sabrina Soto
That's exactly right.
- [40:09]
John Brucat
That's great. That's great.
- [40:10]
Sabrina Soto
That's exactly right. And we'll have some facilitators and a panel for the other leadership tracks.
- [40:18]
John Brucat
That's great. And, you know, we all deal with similar issues in our positions, you know, whether you're in Canada, whether you're in Illinois, whether in New York. Can you talk to me a little bit about how this Leadership Forum is really agnostic to where you are in the world physically? I mean, how does this prepare you to deal with the challenges that we so often deal with day to day in our jobs? Maybe, Tamara, you can talk to us a little bit about that.
- [40:45]
Tamara Mitchell
Yeah, I think to your point, it really is agnostic in that people are people, no matter where we are in the world. Building those leadership skills are. It's universal. It's not like learning how to write a budget in Illinois versus learning how to write a budget in New York. The Leadership Forum is more focused on developing leadership skills that are transferable no matter where you are in the world, no matter what your position is. Because we are, again, we're dealing with people no matter what. And it's really focused on taking the strengths that we have as leaders already and really developing those and building on those strengths.
- [41:29]
John Brucat
Sean.
- [41:33]
Sean Tracy
I guess I would echo what Tamara has said. You know, the, you know, being a Canadian and being part of an international association, you know, and, you know, there are quite a few Canadians that are part of international aspo. You know, in New Brunswick, in our province, we have a pretty good network of, you know, district memberships and things, and people find a lot of value in the leadership, you know, opportunities from ASBU International. And as leaders, you know, we take advantage of those opportunities. Right. That are presented to us. And, you know, just like this podcast, you know, like, would you like to participate and, you know, and answer some questions about something that you're passionate about. And, you know, it's like, okay, I'll do this. And, you know, 20 years ago, you know, I probably would have, you know, found somebody else that would do it for me because, you know, I was a little bit more shy and, you know, being at that point just, you know, a middle manager and, you know, focused on the. On the work. But now I'm, you know, in my career, I'm focused on building leaders, you know, that are going to, you know, lead our organization to the next level, and ASBO helps with that.
- [42:54]
John Brucat
And is this specifically just for school business officials? Because I know, Tammy, you're saying definitely upper leadership in terms of these organizations, but when you're at these leadership forums, are you finding other Higher level leaders kind of participating in the Leadership Forum. I know that, Tamara, when you and I talked about this at the Leadership Forum last year on the podcast, I believe it was David Depre was on with us from Anglophone Sud, and he had his HR director there, which was, I thought was great because a lot of our jobs intermingle a lot in terms of responsibility and there is overlap. But what about either of you? Are you seeing that there's other people from other areas in school districts kind of attending this Leadership Forum?
- [43:35]
Sean Tracy
Yeah, I have some experience. When we did the leadership in New Orleans, I had my transportation manager come with me as well as our director of hr and our superintendent of schools came as well and participated in the event there. And, you know, we came home with a big orange frog. So, you know, it was a fun event. And who doesn't like New Orleans?
- [44:04]
John Brucat
Right, right. And you know, unfortunately, Sean, I know we were talking offline, you said you won't be able to make it to the Leadership Forum this year, which is too bad. But so I guess, Tamara, for you, what are you looking forward to most? Any particular sessions or speakers or activities that are really getting you energized for March or 20?
- [44:24]
Tamara Mitchell
Really? I'm looking forward to the entire forum, to be honest with you. Just getting back, connecting with everyone again, having that intense two days worth of focus on leadership development, building with my board that I'll be there with, and then again making new connections even from other. Connecting with other people from other states and from Canada and wherever else in the world we may have people attending from in March, hopefully some of our UK friends can make it.
- [44:57]
Sean Tracy
Yeah, yeah.
- [44:58]
Tamara Mitchell
But just really looking forward to it.
- [45:01]
John Brucat
Yeah, me too. Me too. So we have a lot of listeners, fortunately on School Business Insider. I'm sure many of them have not attended the Leadership Forum. But if someone's listening to this and they're thinking, okay, maybe this is the year that I really dipped my toe in the water, want to expand my leadership skills. I want to grow as a school business official. What advice could you give to a first time attendee to really kind of make the most of their experience at the Leadership Forum? Tamara, why don't we start with you.
- [45:29]
Tamara Mitchell
Make the most of their experience. I think the first thing that I would recommend is to not have any expectations. Yeah, that makes sense. I think that was with my first Leadership Forum. I really did not know what to expect. I was going. I had just been nominated as treasurer of the association. And so that was one of the first things that I went to, it's like, okay, you're going to this leadership forum event. And so I really didn't know what to expect. And I'm glad that I had that perspective of not really knowing what to expect. So I would. Don't have any expectations other than you're going to make good connections with people as far as networking and you definitely will come away a stronger leader and a better leader for having attended the forum. Just be ready for two days worth of intense professional development that is going to impact you in a positive way and be prepared to make some, some connections as well. But other than those expectations, that that's pretty much it. Just be ready for some intense, focused professional development that's focused on leadership.
- [46:43]
John Brucat
Great. And Sean, what would you say to a first time attendee to really kind of maximize their experience in Tampa this year?
- [46:51]
Sean Tracy
I would say, you know, you approach it, be open minded, right? And you know, take, take those opportunities that are presented to you and take some risks, maybe to challenge yourself a little bit with what's going on. You know, like if you're not somebody that's, you know, comfortable sharing your ideas or whatever, if you have the chance, you know, just take that, leave. No one's going to, you know, say, oh, well, you know, that wasn't very smart, or there's no judgment there. It's, you know, sharing your thoughts, your experiences with like minded individuals and you figure out pretty, pretty quickly that it's a friendly room and that everybody may be different, you know, they may be from different places, but we're all there to try to be better leaders and we're trying to support our school districts the best we can and supporting education, which is every one of our goals, right, as school business leaders.
- [47:50]
John Brucat
And I would add too, don't be afraid to be vulnerable. And it kind of goes to what you were saying, Sean, where it really is a judgment free zone. People aren't going there to judge you on your leadership or lack thereof. I think we're all there to boost each other as professionals and as friends. You meet a lot of really interesting, intelligent, supportive people and you realize that you're not in this job alone. There are so many of us that are dealing with the same issues, maybe just a little bit differently. And we've talked about this a lot on the podcast where I myself can pick the phone up and I'm calling people from across the country, across the world, just to kind of get advice on something. And that really is the beauty of ASBO International and what this leadership forum and events like this offer to membership. So you both make great points. Don't go in thinking that it's going to be a certain way because it could be totally different. And don't go in thinking that you can't speak up and that you're going to get judged by something. So you both make some great points. And Sabrina, are there any new features or surprises that maybe somebody like Sean or Tamara who've been coming year after year after year is going to be brand new to them? What can we look forward to on that?
- [49:05]
Sabrina Soto
We do have a few exciting new events in 25, so based on past feedback, we wanted to create an engaging and fun way to bring everybody together. Because of the different tracks, there needs to be that opportunity for everyone to reconvene. So on Friday we will do a scavenger hunt which will be serving as a fun but team building event. And it's designed to encourage collaboration, problem solving. And it will be outdoors along the Tampa Riverwalk.
- [49:37]
John Brucat
Oh, awesome. Well, I'll keep my fingers crossed for sunshine and nice weather.
- [49:42]
Sabrina Soto
I hope so, because then we're going to end the conference with a closing reception outdoors at Sparkman Wharf, which is a really cool waterfront area that has restaurants and shops and entertainment.
- [49:57]
John Brucat
Awesome. Looking forward to it. And then, you know, just how can attendees prepare ahead of time? We talked about really the mental preparation for first time attendees. But even if someone's been going for multiple years or someone's really kind of just dipping their toe in the water of the leadership forum, what should somebody do to prepare ahead of time to really kind of maximize their experience? I mean, you know, showing up cold is one thing and really immersing yourself. But if there's something that you can prepare to really be a contributor to this event, what would that be?
- [50:30]
Sabrina Soto
I would say definitely make sure that you reviewed the agenda and you select your tracks. Before attending any conference, I like to set goals on what you hope to achieve and also what you hope to bring back to your district. You can prepare questions in advance for the speakers network in advance through social media. Aasbolf25 Great. And be prepared to learn new ideas and perspectives. So come in. Definitely open minded.
- [50:59]
John Brucat
And I have to ask you, Sabrina, from an AASBO staffer perspective and maybe you can speak for your colleagues a little bit. I'm guessing like your team has to get something out of these leadership forums too because when I was there last, all of you are in the sessions as well as the school business officials and the executive directors. Tell me what you and Your staff are really getting out of these sessions, too.
- [51:19]
Sabrina Soto
So, as I mentioned, we did disc training in 24 and 23. We just had an all staff where the entire team came together to look at our disc profiles and kind of expand on those conversations from leadership. So we learned each staff person's disc style, and we talked a lot about communication strategies with those types of styles.
- [51:42]
John Brucat
Well, it's great to know that not only is ASBO International, you and your staff able to offer this professional development for your affiliates and your executive directors, but you're getting something out of it for yourselves, too. So it's. I know, like the AC&E, you guys are scrambling and trying to coordinate and everything, but it sounds like you're able to kind of come together as a team yourself and just kind of benefit from this.
- [52:02]
Tamara Mitchell
Yeah.
- [52:02]
Sabrina Soto
And I think the great thing about Leadership Forum really is that investment in yourself or with a team, but on leadership skill sets. So it's not specific to the school business profession. It's really growing yourself as a leader.
- [52:17]
John Brucat
So wrapping up here. How do you see events like the Leadership Forum really evolving to meet the changing demands of school business leadership? No one year seems to be the same for us. I mean, the job is cyclical in nature, but there is always kind of the crisis du jour. But how do you see the Leadership Forum maybe evolving as our needs evolve as professionals? Sean, you want to kick us off on that one?
- [52:46]
Sean Tracy
Sure. I would say, having attended quite a few, you guys are doing a great job with organizing these things. I've always been able to. To glean something from them. But for the future, I would say focusing on building future leaders, engaging with maybe the younger members of the association to make sure their needs are being met. Maybe look at some ways of engaging with the membership to say, what are you looking for in the next Leadership Forum? I know that ASVO does do surveys and they do check in with folks, but just encouraging folks to do that. Right. If you don't fill out the survey and you don't say what you want, then you're never going to have that input, that voice. Right. So being cognizant of what's going on in the world. Right. What's the new challenge? What is school business dealing with and trying to be relevant, I guess, to provide some information to the leaders that will help them. Right. There's difference across all kinds of jurisdictions. The US Is very different from Canada. Canada. And you know, Australia is different from Canada again. Right. So on how they do school business. But I've I've learned that you can find there's commonalities amongst all those things. And you know, I'm sure that the future of ASBO is bright and leadership development will continue at the forum and I look forward to going in 2026.
- [54:21]
John Brucat
Great, great. And Tamara, what about you? I mean, how do you feel the Leadership Forum will evolve in the future as our needs evolve?
- [54:30]
Tamara Mitchell
I agree 100% with Sean about really that next generation of leaders, focusing on that next generation of leaders and tapping into them. And that next generation of leaders could be people who are second career into the school business arena or people who are coming fresh out of college and lucked up on finding school business as a career and school finance as a career. And I say lucked up because I had no idea that school finance existed until I just happened to accidentally get a job through a temporary agency. Had I known when I was in college, I absolutely would have jumped on it right away and that would have been my first career choice. But really just tapping into that next generation of leadership and really building them up and meeting them where they are, asking them how they would like to see this leadership development evolve. I hope that the Leadership Forum will remain as a focused in person event just because what you get from in person professional development, especially something that's focused on leadership, is invaluable. So hopefully that continues.
- [55:46]
John Brucat
Yeah, absolutely. Well, for those of you listening, if you're inspired by our conversation today, you can head over to ASBO International's website at asbointl.org under Conferences. You will see the Leadership Forum and click there where you'll be able to sign up and Register for Tampa March 6th to 7th, 2025. Sean, I'm heartbroken that I won't be able to see you this year, but you'll be on a cruise, so you'll be doing just great. Thank you today for sharing your experiences with the Leadership Forum and I look forward to speaking with you soon.
- [56:19]
Sean Tracy
Thank you.
- [56:19]
Tamara Mitchell
All right, thanks John.
- [56:20]
Sabrina Soto
Yeah, thanks so much for having me as part of this.
- [56:24]
John Brucat
Thank you for tuning in to School Business Insider. Make sure to check back each week for your favorite topics on school business.