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- [00:02]
A
You're listening to asbo international's school business insider. I'm your host, john brucato. Each week on School Business Insider, I sit down with school business officials and industry experts from around the world to share their stories and explore the topics that matter most to you. Find out what it means to be a school business official and get your insider pass on all things school business. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to School Business Insider. Today's episode is a special one. Over the course of a long and distinguished career, Mike Vespe has become one of the most respected voices in school business. Whether through his work as an assistant superintendent for business, his time in the private sector with Frontline Education, his countless presentations, mentorship of new leaders, or his service on the ASBO NY board, Mike has made a lasting impact on our profession. Recently, Mike was recognized with ASBO NY's Philip B. Friedenberg Memorial Award for outstanding Service, a fitting tribute to someone who has dedicated so much of his career to helping others succeed. As Mike prepares for retirement, we reflect on the journey that brought him here, the lessons he's learned along the way, the people who influenced him, and the perspective he's gained through both professional and personal challenges. Most importantly, this is a conversation about leadership, relationships, gratitude, and leaving the profession better than you found it. Mike, welcome to the podcast. I'm happy to have you, my friend.
- [01:35]
B
Well, thank you so much, John. Very humbling introduction and I appreciate it. I really am happy to be here today and again, really appreciate the time and effort that you're putting forward with this podcast.
- [01:49]
A
I appreciate it. We've become good friends over the years and close colleagues, so it's an honor to have you on and I'm excited just to really kind of tell your story and for those who don't know you, let them know how wonderful you really are. So with that being said, as you prepare for retirement, let's really kind of go back to the beginning of your career. How did you find your way into school business? It's always. It's always a fascinating question because I only know maybe a handful of people who knew about the profession and got into it. So I want to hear how you first dipped your toe in the waters.
- [02:17]
B
No, it's really interesting. As I reflect back on my career, I worked at base operations in the United States Air Force, and that's the person who's like an air traffic specialist on the ground processing flight crews and typing in flight plans to where air crews are going. And every once in a while, I'd be the guy that would wand passengers before they got onto a military aircraft. So once I got out of the Air Force, I had an opportunity to go to work for the federal government in a similar position. And unfortunately, in the early 90s, there was the downturn and closure of Air Force bases and army bases and really just military bases in general. And so when I went to work for the federal government, I had closed Griffiths Air Force Base in Rome, New York. And prior to that I had closed Ki Sawyer Air Force Base up in the UP of Michigan. And so I closed two Air Force bases really in a short period of time. And then as part of the base closure, the federal government allocated funds for any of those members impacted. And I was able to go to Syracuse University on federal money and get a master's degree in special education. And when I was in college working on my undergrad, I actually was a substitute teacher in special education. So I was fortunate enough to get those jobs. My mother in law was a secretary to the CSC chair. So I was fortunate to get a lot of those jobs as a substitute teacher. I went to Syracuse, got that master's degree in special education, and then began a career as a teacher. And this was in the mid-90s when I first got into education, mid to late 90s, I had no idea who the school business administrator was. And it was, you know, at the time it was Chittenango, New York. Dale Thomas was the business administrator. And I just remember him being the super nice guy. No idea what he did, right? But it was John, believe it or not, I'm dating myself. It was when the dot com implosion took place in the stock market in 99. Business was booming. The Internet was almost similar to what you see at AI right now. Business was going crazy. And here I was a math and language art teacher in a middle school. I started out at elementary and then went to middle school. I was coaching and my undergraduate degree in business. It just kept drawing me back, like, am I ever gonna go into business, you know, in my mid-20s and dot com's going on and there's millionaires being made with, you know, stocks. And I had contemplated leaving at the time to go work for Tellergy, which was a communication startup company in Syracuse. And someone said to me, mike, you know, you can be in business and stay in education. And I said, no way. What's that? Well, you can be the, you can be the school business manager. In fact, we think Mr. Thomas is going to retire and we think you'd be perfect for it.
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A
No kidding.
- [05:42]
B
I Had a close friend who was an assistant superintendent for curriculum instruction. And I said, no, I have no idea.
- [05:49]
A
So you had no idea that the business office really even existed?
- [05:51]
B
No idea. I knew that obviously it was the place you went to fill out paperwork for benefits and that's about it. And then, you know, I never went, I never budgeted, I never went to a school budget vote. Like, I just, it just wasn't anything, you know, I taught, I was starting a family. You know, I was just early career, you know, focus on that kind of stuff. So when I went and did my second master's degree in ed leadership at Oswego, I was the only person in the class that didn't want to be a principal or a superintendent. I was the only person, we had one person that wanted to be an ad. Also, I was the only person in a cohort of about 25 students that wanted to be a school business administrator. And that's it. And you know, so I, I went and got certified and, and I got lucky enough to get my first job in a, in a, in a business office at Liverpool. But yeah, I had no idea that it even existed. But it was awesome because instead of leaving education, I found the job that bridged the gap between business and education because I really didn't want to leave. But I also, there was that passion from my undergrad degree where I really wanted to be in business. And that's how, and that's how I got into the, that's how I got into the job.
- [07:08]
A
That's incredible. It's incredible. So probably never envisioned yourself here early on in your career, but when you think back to where you had started and just really kind of discovering the business office and kind of blending those two worlds of business and education, what made you kind of stick around? I mean, you said you were on the cusp of the dot com bubble and you know, there's a lot of happening, a lot to be kind of excited about something that could be enticing to leave. What made you really stick around and, you know, find yourself kind of at the tail end of your career in school business?
- [07:39]
B
Well, I, you know, I had a great mentor in Dr. Joe Camreno, former, you know, past president of ASBO. And you know, he was very influential, you know, at our, you know, with our local ASBO at the county level and then obviously went on to do great things at New York State. And you know, he was very encouraging and he said, you know, Michael, you get your internship, we're going to get you the experience. We're going to get you your first job. So I got my first job down in Tully School District, you know, which was a smaller rural district. You know, the campus was all on. Both buildings, were all on one campus. And I learned everything that I could through, you know, about the budget vote, the annual meeting, creating a school budget, and I really just fell in love with the job. It was a challenge. You know, the HR part of it, obviously, was, you know, a little different. I had to, you know, learn in terms of, you know, dealing with people, especially the civil service positions. And, you know, it was just. It was fun problem solving. It was, you know, like every day there was a unique situation that occurred. And I remember thinking at the time, I'm, you know, I'm like 30, 31 years old, and I'm like the number two person in the school district, you know, even though it wasn't my title. But, you know, if you looked at district office, there was the superintendent and there was the business administrator, and. And I remember thinking, wow, this is. This is a tremendous opportunity. And I remember Larry Dismore, who was my superintendent at the time, you know, I remember him looking at me and saying, vespe, this is a great career. You know, you're going to be part of the teacher's retirement system. If you work hard, you're really going to have, you know, great benefits in life. You know, you're going to have great opportunities and, you know, just stick with this. And then, of course, as any superintendent, they try to encourage you to become a superintendent and take the bait. No. And, you know, did I think I was going to be a lifetime? You know, Absolutely not. But I love the challenge of, you know, putting the budget together, making it work, meeting with people, collaborating, you know, and learning everything I could. And again, back in those days, you know, it was all about. I'd go to state aid planning, and it was like learning a different language.
- [09:55]
A
Yeah, I remember those days.
- [09:57]
B
I kept my mouth shut, John. I kept my mouth shut and I just listened to Shelley Lovings and Patty Service, and I just. I was like a sponge. I absorbed those experts. Estate aid planning. You just listen, listen, listen, you know, and you just absorb as much as you can. I think. I don't think I asked the question. I was too afraid to ask a question for this.
- [10:17]
A
Well, I remember I felt so out of my element because, you know, we use a lot of acronyms and there's all these different things. There's aid formulas and my. I remember the first year, my head was spinning because I didn't even know where to start because there was just so much information, valuable information. But I'm like, how do I even parse this out?
- [10:32]
B
No. And it's not like you could look up on your smartphone what the acronyms were. You know, in fact, someone gave a list of school acronyms that I used to have in the top of my desk drawer. So I knew what they meant, but, you know, I just absorbed, you know, everything to do with. Remember, back then, we didn't have the foundation aid formula. We had 30 different formulas. And you were just. It was a crossword puzzle where you were trying to figure out how you could maximize your revenue sources through all these different funding channels, you know, and fill out the paperwork. And, you know, I learned. I learned goofy things because I was in charge of the technology infrastructure. So I learned, for example, like a phone system. And, you know, back then, the Internet was still in its infancy. We were trying to figure out how to, you know, update the. And did update the district's infrastructure and digitize it. I mean, it just seemed like there were new and innovative things that were happening in business. They were also happening in school. So it just was an exciting time. And, yeah, hooked me. Then I found my way back to Chittenango. So the first 10 years of my career, the first eight of them, I spent at Chittenango, and when I went back there, I was kind of a celeb, because I was a teacher for four years, and then I came back as an administrator, and that's when I really, really learned the profession and, you know, started figuring things out. And then. And then I felt confident to join, you know, like the local health consortium, you know, get on the board of directors for the health consortium. And the same thing with workers comp. And again, around the table at the county. We had masterful leaders. And all you had to do, show up, listen, if there's any questions whatsoever, you could ask the questions and you get the answers. But, John, I was reflecting back then. Before I made any decisions, I'd be on the phone with two or three leaders that I trusted in the county, where I made friends through our meetings, through our local chapter meetings, through asbo, through our consortium meetings. I'd call people and I'd say, hey, I'm thinking about doing X, Y and Z. What do you think? And I would get their opinions. I mean, geez, I was probably on the phone with, you know, Mike Schuster before, you know, way back when, right? I'd be on the phone with him, you know, at least once or twice a week saying, hey, Mikey, I'm thinking about doing this. What do you think? You know?
- [13:07]
A
Well, that's the beauty of the profession, isn't it? Because we're not in competition with one another. We're here to help each other out. And I don't think I had an appreciation for that right out of the gate. I just thought it was just, you know, high stakes. There's a lot going on, and I didn't necessarily lean on my, my colleagues, but once I realized that as soon as I called, someone picked up phone up without reservation, like, oh, why wasn't I doing this earlier? And to your point, been calling people ever since, and I always get someone picking up on the other end, you know.
- [13:34]
B
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, back then, it was then you had to call and wait for someone to call you back. Now, obviously now with emails, you. You can put a question out on a listserv and bang, you've got your answer. And that's why whenever someone puts a question out on a listserv, I try to be one of the first people to respond, you know, because it's like, well, how can I help? You know, how can I be. How can I give back? Because people gave to me on those phone calls. So to me, it's like, how can I give back? And it's like, so that's the stuff that kind of kept you in the game, kept you interested, kept you moving. Because, you know, like you said, there's only, you know, there's only roughly 700 of us, you know, in the state. And it's like, you know, we're a family and you just, you ask those questions. And really that's, that's what kept me going because I, I had the confidence in my colleagues, you know, and the key was stay out of trouble. Right? The big joke that we always talked about was if you're in, if, if you're in curriculum or you're in another administrative position and you mess up, okay, you know, people aren't going to be happy with it, but you can recover. If you mess up the school finances, you're gone. Right? We always had that extra pressure on us, you know what I mean? Like, there's no messing up a tax rate. There's no messing up a tax levy or a budget. You know, if you mess that up,
- [14:58]
A
there's no forgiveness for that.
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B
No, you're looking for a job, so you're making sure that, you know, you're talking with your colleagues and networking and making sure that you're in good shape there. So, you know, that's. That's really what's kept me going, is that that friendship and that, you know, that family all these years.
- [15:15]
A
Well, I mean, you've relied on a lot of your friends and colleagues, but I would say just as much, so many people, including myself, have relied on you for advice and guidance and perspective. I think your unofficial title in ASPO New York is the Mayor, because everybody knows you and knows that you're approachable and always willing to lend a helping hand. So how did mentorship become such an important part of your career? I mean, you do so much for the association, whether it's committee work or SBO Leadership Academy, you're always around and always willing to help. So I have to imagine mentorship played some kind of role in that.
- [15:51]
B
Yeah. And again, it's this notion of giving back. And so many people helped me and were friendly and open with me. I always wanted to be the one to give back. And that's what I always said. Know when I started teaching classes for the College of St. Rose and the certification program, you know, it's like, well, how do you have time to do that? And I'm like, well, how do I have time not to do it? You know, somebody helped me get through these programs, and what I, you know, what we find is it's so hard to get qualified certified people in this profession. And I'm like, well, how can I help solve that? Well, I can become an instructor and I can help people and hopefully conduct myself in a way that helps people get through the program and learn something. And I always, you know, if you talk to any of the people that have gone through my strategic planning project management class as the Leadership Academy, I always say to them, like, wow, you're stuck with me from nine to four, but we're going to have fun. But also we're going to talk about things that are going to actually help you do your job. So this isn't just an information session that you have to be here for.
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A
This is something that, yeah, it's not theoretical. They actually walk away with.
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B
You're walking away with practical knowledge. You can take it back to your business office meetings, you know, right away. You know, you can get more, you know, organized when it comes to project management. So I've always tried to present information and ideas in a mentorship role, you know, where it's like, you know, can you take this information back and use it right away? And it's funny, as far as the. I think I also got the nickname the Wanderer. And they were worried about you are. They were worried about me wandering on Tuesday. So I didn't realize I had people like actually watching my exact location.
- [17:33]
A
So, Mike, I don't know if you realize this about yourself, but if you sit for too long, you get up. I get it.
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B
I just do it.
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A
But then you start walking. Usually people just stand up, but you start moving and all of a sudden it's like, where'd Mike go?
- [17:47]
B
I have an attention span of about, as an adult learner, about 20, 25 minutes. And then after that, you lose me. And then same thing in conversations. You know, when I, When I'm down there and there's 300 people, I want to try to have a conversation with 200 of them. So I'll stick around for about 10 minutes in a conversation and then I move on to another one. But, yeah, it's just, it's just, you know, it's just it, it ends up. I like doing that. It ends up. It's fun for me to, you know, find out how other people are doing and ask about their families and, and, you know, but I just think that the, I think the whole mentorship thing came when I hit. When I was able to kind of hit max knowledge on some of these issues. Especially let's, you know, let's pick the. You know, I was chair of the GR Committee for three years, and I can remember that. And I remember thinking how cool it was to go up on the Hill and to be the chair of the Government Relations Committee for ASBO New York. And then your, you're, you know, like, my family would say, what are you doing this weekend, dad? And I'm like, ah, I'm going down to Albany. I'm going to go up on the Hill and I'm going to meet with legislators. Oh, for what? Because we, you know, we need more money for, you know, public education. And I remember thinking, like, how cool that was, you know, so when I went up there, the goal was to master the information, right? So that we could talk about it, but then talk. To talk to the legislators in a way that they could really understand it because they don't really understand all the details, you know, So I can remember sitting in some, you know, with Senator DeFrancisco and, you know, he obviously, you know, was, you know, in charge of the state's, the Finance Committee, and remember having conversations with him about the formula early on, the state funding formula, and having him ask genuine questions, and he was really a, you know, a great leader. And I just remember thinking, you know, wow, I'm doing this on behalf of the entire state, you know.
- [19:45]
A
Yeah.
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B
And it's just, yeah, it was a powerful, you know, committee to be on. And then other people would ask, so what did you say to them? And then I would start saying, well, you know, here's the conversation you should have back in your district. You know, here's kind of the philosophy. And then I would start teaching it. Right. So I would try to infuse that knowledge and you know, my classes, I would, you know, try to sprinkle it into the simulations that you've seen me do at Leadership Academy.
- [20:12]
A
Yeah.
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B
And then of course, you know, my role in financial forecasting, you know, we would use that information to talk about what people could expect to forecast out on a revenue model. So it kind of all tied together, you know, and it was just that idea of someone taught me all of this. And then I also worked hard to understand it behind the scenes. I want to provide that and make it easier for the next generation of business official. I want to make it easy for them and tell them exactly, you know, how it works and what you should say and what you should do. And then they can, you know, do, do the rest on their own. So it was just the feeling of being able to share that, that experience and that knowledge. But it took me a long time to get there. Right, sure. I mean, that's, I wanted to now, but I was, I didn't start out that way. Right. It took me a good, you know, 10 to 12 years to really, you know, get, get to this level.
- [21:09]
A
And I'm wondering after that, 10 to 12 years, you know, what responsibility comes with being viewed as a leader in that, in the profession. I mean, you were talking about leading the GR committee, which is probably asbo, New York's most robust and complex committee, and you were at the helm talking to legislators. You've become pinnacle of knowledge in terms of long range planning and strategic development. I mean, with that comes some kind of responsibility. Can you talk me through how you navigate that?
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B
Yeah. And, and it's interesting obviously, because, you know, I taught, you know, you actually, you know, came in along with Brady and taught that long range financial planning class. And, you know, we, you know, eventually you took it over and we share, we shared it on a few occasions. And I think the responsibility is, you know, you know, you have to. First of all, not everyone approaches, you know, those business procedures and processes. Right. They don't. Not everyone does things the way we're going to do them. So I think the first thing is you got to give people the tools of, you know, basic information, right? And then you give them some strategies and some methods. And the idea isn't, it's not just, you know, one size fits all approach, right? So you got to give them the basic information and the basic tools, and then you got to give them time to reflect, partner up with somebody that's in the room, and then that's where they develop their craft, right? They can't just emulate you and do it the way that you do it. So I think there is a great responsibility in what you don't want to do. And I'm even thinking about this, facing retirement and thinking about doing some consulting work. You gotta be careful because you don't want to take on or own the liability associated with telling somebody one thing, having them doing it, take that action and do it your way per se, and then not have it work out. So the idea is just to equip people with some ideas and then maybe give them some choices and then have them choose. And I think that's what's. So I would always approach it to say, here's some things to think about, here's some pros and cons to what you want to do. And we'll just use. We know that people are going to start using funding reserves, right? So they'd ask me, well, what should I do? Well, no, let's look at your reserves. Well, you can look at these three reserves and then you can make a choice to justify using those reserves. And then of course you have to say, but remember, the more that you use this, this could create fiscal cliff for you down the road if you're not able to backfill it or get offsetting revenue. You know, so those are the conversations I have with people there. It's more about choice and providing the tools and less about telling them what to do. Does that make sense?
- [24:02]
A
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.
- [24:04]
B
So it's, believe it or not, it's the old teacher in me where I would look at 22, 23, 24 students in the room. Some of them could learn by mimicking what I do on a, on a chalkboard back then and a whiteboard. Some of them had to do it by reading, some of it had to do it by, you know, you giving them an idea and having them try it on their own. And some of them learned because I gave them, you know, five minutes to do a think pair and share about the situation. So you just have to look at the person that you're working with, give them the tools, figure out kind of what their learning style is, and then present them with the information. So, you know, that's really helped me kind of make that connection, make that connection with my students almost that, you know, that differentiated instruction approach, you know, where you just kind of see who you're working with and then, and then give them ideas and then go from there. And you know what that takes, John? It takes time. It takes time to do that. So you have to be patient and you have to take the time. Again, when I think back to, you know, those leaders around the table that did it for me, I knew I was probably asking a question that they knew inside and out. There's people that took the time to say, yeah, Mike, think about X, Y and Z. And then you go from there. And that's what I try to pride myself on doing that.
- [25:24]
A
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- [26:41]
B
Yeah, I mean, I just did a roundtable on long range financial planning, you know, with Dr. Avery asked me to facilitate the other day and, you know, we talked about, you could use, you know, there's several companies that have software and you can use their software or you could, you know, I taught one person how to do it using a pivot table and look at the priorities of what you need. And now, you know, you just shared with me your class on AI and you know, now you could probably look at, you know, some kind of AI, like you mentioned, Claude, you know, you could look at some kind of AI to develop that long range plan. And it's just evolving, you know, so the idea is just make sure you do it right, doesn't matter how, it's
- [27:22]
A
the most important part.
- [27:23]
B
Just make sure you're actually doing it. And obviously, you know that I preach doing it in the early fall so that you know what you're facing in the upcoming year. So, you know, so I've kind of taken that approach, you know, over time with, with anyone that wants to have a conversation about it.
- [27:40]
A
So you've done so much through ASBO ny, whether it's presentations, committee work, long range planning, and you know, most recently your board service. I'm wondering, being so involved, what have you gained personally from becoming such a, you know, a staple in the association?
- [27:56]
B
Well, I think first of all, being involved as a pillar, I think of just good citizenship. So you got to take the time. One of the things we talk about as school business officials is that we try to balance work, home life and be involved. And I think one of the things I've been telling people is you have vacation for a reason. Take it. I mean, it's great that we have in our contracts where you can cash in vacation days, but it's not the same, especially when it comes to mental health and spending time with friends and family. You know, take your time back, can't buy the time back. So, you know, I've been very clear about balancing your time. But once you become efficient in your job, in the office, and you can manage your, your daily intake of emails and you have your big projects and you can kind of just manage that. And you know, I talk a lot to people about how do you manage that work back at home. Then you can start giving on committee work, you can start giving more of yourself, you know, in the association, if you want to do at the state level or if you just want to stay at the local level. And I think, you know, what happens is your knowledge increases even more because what are you talking about? You know, I always say you go to a conference and you come home and you're exhausted and every, your friends and family think that you're on vacation. What are we talking, what are we really talking about when we're at ASBO New York at The Expo, we're talking school business 24, 7 in our sessions, at our tables, at our dinners. I mean, we're working 12, 14, some of us, 18 hour days and it's all about school business. So you become more of an expert. So to me, with my involvement, my time and all these on this committee work and presentations, it's, you know, continuing to develop my knowledge base and then sharing it with others. And you know, I really, you know, you gain so much more knowledge personally from that networking and you know, you just discover more about the profession and yourself. And you can only get to that point when you're able to master what you have back at work and you're able to balance that time because you know what work's going to be there when you get back. Right, right. So it's just a way to, you know, you just have to be able to balance it. So, you know, I've gained a lot personally by being involved in the association, just by the friendships that I've formed. That's a huge part of it. But my knowledge base has increased threefold. So I might only sit in the session for 20 to 30 minutes and then I have to start wandering. But in that 20 or 30 minutes, I can bet you that I've absorbed as much as I possibly can and then have to stand up and just try to listen to it from there.
- [30:48]
A
So I have to quickly tell that story. Why that's so funny because, yeah, that's kind of how you operate normally. But for everyone who's not aware, we have our annual awards and induction ceremony at ASPO New York. And Mike was awarded the Friedenberg Memorial Award for outstanding service. But this award is a secret, so no one knows who it is. And typically family members and colleagues come from all over the place as a surprise. And the ASPO staff was just sweating bullets the entire day trying to keep tabs on you while corralling all your family. So you didn't see them. So that's why Mike the Wanderer was so stressful that night, because we, everybody was watching you like a hawk. It was hilarious.
- [31:32]
B
Well, you know, and we got to the end and obviously there were some very prestigious awards, you know, ahead of that. And those were great people. And you know, I was, you know, but I was getting to the point where I'm sitting in the front and
- [31:45]
A
getting a little squirrely.
- [31:46]
B
I was getting squirrely and I kind of leaned over to Ruby and said, geez, I think it's time for me to get up and take a walk and Stretch my legs. And she said, don't you dare. And luckily, luckily I sat right there because I would. Ran into. I would have ruined the surprise and ran into everybody. So I said, okay, I'll stay put. You know, she's like, we're almost done. It's, you know, just relax. And.
- [32:08]
A
Yeah, I'm glad it worked out. I'm glad it worked out.
- [32:10]
B
No, it was unbelievable.
- [32:13]
A
So I do wanna ask you about that. So, you know, you had 25 letters of support from friends and colleagues nominating you for this award. You had over 30 family and friends show up to support you as a surprise. Now that you've been recognized with this outstanding service Award, what does that recognition mean to you?
- [32:33]
B
Well, it's just so humbling, you know, it's just one of those things where, you know, and I tried to. I tried to say it. I went back, first of all, when I. When I figured it out, when I figured out that it was me, I was in total shock. I think I couldn't hear anything. I got tunnel vision. I'm trying to watch the videos and pay attention. But then my family walked out and forget it. You know, it was waterworks after that. But, you know, what an honor to, you know, to receive that award. It's, you know, and I think, you know, if you're a member of ASBO New York and you've been around as long as I have and on the committees, it's the. It's the highest honor. It's the best, really. It's just a tremendous honor. So, so humbled to. To receive that, but then to try to. To try to reflect that. And the first thing that I said was, and I tried to say it, but I couldn't really say it, but I implied it is. There's been some really great leaders that have walked across that stage. And of course, you know, you know, you spent most of the night, you were on the stage the whole night, you know, you know, as now the incoming president of ASBO New York, even becoming president of ASBO New York, if you think about it, you've joined a long line, long tradition of history just to accomplish that as becoming the president is quite an honor. And then, you know, and then to get this award is just tremendous. But, you know, I think it just reflects, you know, honestly with how many people that I've been in contact with. And, you know, I was thinking about, you know, If I taught 10 years of the Leadership academy, you know, then I've impacted probably 250 members. I think, you know, at dinner, there were 350 people. There's probably a good chance that half the people that were sitting there had been through, you know, one of the classes that I taught. So, you know, it's just one of those situations where you just. You're just. You're so humbled by it because there's so many great people that walk that stage before you. And the first person that I saw that was the last person that, when I was there. Cause obviously I'd missed last year, was Victor. And that's why I called out to Victor Emanuel, former, you know, past president of asbo. And, you know, he had done great things, and I looked right at him and we made that connection. So we laughed about it afterwards. It wasn't funny at the time because we were sitting up, you know, he was sobbing, and I was trying to keep it together and not cry so I could talk, you know, to say a few words about the award, but just a tremendous honor. And I think, you know, if you're, you know, if you're someone who's listening to this podcast in ASBA New York, if you work hard and you give back, you know, then eventually you get, you know, you have the privilege and the honor to receive this. It's just. It's a tremendous feeling.
- [35:08]
A
Yeah, well, well deserved. And it was such a nice opportunity to tell your story to the audience. And, you know, you spoke beautifully about the award and your service. So very happy for you.
- [35:21]
B
Very proud of you, John. I didn't know what I said until I actually watched the recording and I
- [35:24]
A
thought you sounded good.
- [35:26]
B
What did I sound like? And. Yeah, and that's what someone said. And then I listened to it and I said, no, I was trying to think about this point and I was trying to make this point.
- [35:34]
A
I went, well, you know, to your defense. You had no idea it was coming, so that's why you had to share his remarks. And it's super emot.
- [35:40]
B
So. And then everyone said, no, no, no, we. We implied it here. No, no, you inferred it there. You're. It was fine. But yeah, it was. It was really, what a tremendous honor. So. And, and great surprise. And, you know, and, you know, I'm really happy about people that showed that support. That was really nice, man. Very appreciative of. Of everything. And what a tremendous job the ASBO New York staff did. I mean, all of my friends and family said they're just unbelievable. So talk about, you know, our staff at as I mean, just.
- [36:13]
A
Yeah. The conference they put on this year. Was unlike anything they've done in the past. It was phenomenal.
- [36:18]
B
But also hats off to you and Ron with that format. Better together. You know, I mean, if we really felt like we were at the Academy Awards, I mean, what a, just, what an event, just was an epic evening and I was a little nervous about, you know, who would actually show up for the awards. And we really had a great. Not only do we have a great showing, but I think the word's gonna get out if we do that in the future and I think people are gonna want to be a part of that celebration. You know, it was really, I think, just well done all the way around.
- [36:47]
A
Yeah, it was a lot of fun. And you know, I did buy that tuck, so I need to use it again, so maybe we'll do that similarly.
- [36:53]
B
Hopefully you can get another use out of it next year at the same event for sure.
- [36:56]
A
It's not just gonna hang in my closet for 10 years and then I get rid of it.
- [36:59]
B
No, you'll use it. That's great. You guys looked great. It was good. You kept it light hearted and special and honestly, you felt like, you know, for the little bit of the Academy Awards that I've watched in the past, the clips, it felt like, you know, especially with the, the script that you guys had, it was just, it was so fun. So, yeah, thank you. It was really an honor and still on cloud nine. And if all goes well, I will have all of my letters and the awards, you know, made it here via car to, to Florida. So they should be here soon. Then I'll be able to, you know, look through everything. So it's been a, it's been a week now and I'm really anxious to read through everything and see it. So I can't wait.
- [37:41]
A
I can imagine. So, Mike, this, this past year has really brought some challenges I don't think anybody would choose. And you know, I really want to know, I mean, you have maintained your positive attitude in resilience and just overall outlook on life where I don't know how you do it. And I just want to know, like, where does this positivity come from? How have you been able to maintain such a forward looking viewpoint facing all these challenges?
- [38:06]
B
Well, you know, you and I talked, you know, on the Northway that one day on the way to one of our leadership seminars. And I think, you know, when you're diagnosed with a terminal illness, you know, it's obviously, you know, deeply troubling to say the least. But here's the thing. If you're weepy and negative. It's not going to change the outcome. So when I. When I got diagnosed and it was, you know, it was a year ago in May that I had pancreatic cancer, it was a shock to me and to everybody else. And, yeah, you know, I had to stay in the hospital for four days, and they had to do all the tests and the biopsy and confirm everything. And, you know, when I came out of it, I said, okay, you know, this is the situation. And I had, you know, two choices. I could just, you know, get busy dying or get busy living. You know, obviously stole that quote from Morgan Freeman and Shawshank, but. But I just chose to be positive and, you know, live life to its fullest and. Because it's not going to change the outcome, you know, if you think about it. But I think the biggest thing and, you know, you and I had a chance to talk about this is, you know, so many business officials do these jobs, and they'll say to you, I can't possibly take time off because who's going to do the work? Well, guess what? The work's going to be there. It's going to get done. Go take your vacation time, because you can't get that time back. So I used to work for this older gentleman who was Italian, and he would say, michael, Tomato's another day. And he'd say, basically, he's telling me, go home. I worked at an ice factory and delivered ice all around central New York. Tomato's another day. And that just meant, okay, time to go home, be with your family. The work's gonna be there. So I just took the attitude like, you know, work. Work is still important, and I still want to teach my class and, you know, do all the things that I do and be active. But I also had a, you know, a profound kind of new outlook for spending time with friends and family. So then I thought to myself, why? Why haven't I done that all along? And then I thought to myself, I have done it all along. Like, I was never one of those guys who would cash in vacation days, you know, every once in a while, if I needed the money, I would. But we went on a family vacation at least, you know, a couple times a year. So could I put more money in my 403B?
- [40:25]
A
Sure.
- [40:25]
B
But you know what? I spent that money on family vacations, and it was worth it. I think about all the time that I was at a district clerk and maybe boards of education, wasted time, and I counted up about 900 hours of time where boards were having useless conversations. And I thought that was tough to think about. And there's not a lot you can do there. Just know that it's part of your job, but also know you can make up that time by making sure that you don't miss, you know, musicals and plays and chorus performances and band performances and sporting events and you don't miss those things for, quote, unquote, work. And then when you are at those events, now that we have smartphones, get off your phone, put your phone in your pocket. Those.
- [41:11]
A
Yeah. Be present.
- [41:12]
B
Yeah. Those 20 text messages and those 17 emails, they're going to be there and you can enjoy your, you can enjoy the time with your family and friends and you don't need to get right back to anyone. As long as you're doing that within 24 hours, you're fine. And if you're on vacation, you know, then you'd let people know in an out of office reply that you're on vacation, you'll get back to within a week, you know, so, you know, I think, you know, my attitude was be positive, enjoy every last minute of life and don't dwell on the negativity. You know, just be positive, you know, and, and that's really helped me, you know, get through the last year. And that's the same attitude that I have right now. You know, get, if you're, you're moving, then you're living and I'm still the wanderer. The more I wander, the more alive I feel. And, you know, and that helps. And, you know, so I kind of harp on people. Someone said to me recently, mike, I can't retire. And I said, yeah, why is that? Well, I don't. The district would never be able to find someone to replace me. Well, I got news for you. I got diagnosed and the district had an interim named within 48 hours. Good leaders will find a way to replace you. And everyone's replaceable. And as special as I may be to the district that I work in, right. And to the districts that I have worked in, they've hired someone that have come on to replace my job. So that notion where only you can do that job, it just isn't true. The board of education, the superintendent, they're going to replace you, you know, and life goes on. So you can't feel like you can't retire or you can't take a vacation or you can't spend time with your family and friends because you have this job. Now. There are some people that I've talked to their Life is their job, and good for them. That's what makes them happy. And if that's what makes you happy, that's great. But I feel bad for the people that feel pressured. And, you know, I've tried to empower people. I actually just got an email from someone that said, not taking the cash. And then I clicked on the email and they said, I'm glad you told me that the other day. I'm not cashing in my vacation time. I'm taking my vacation time.
- [43:16]
A
That's amazing.
- [43:17]
B
And we're going somewhere. And I'm like, beautiful. That's what you should do if that's what you want to do. So, you know, the other thing, John, I think, you know, as part of the school business official, we're shared decision makers. A lot of times, school business officials, and this kind of goes probably universally, you know, around the country, they feel the pressure of these financial challenges that we face in school business. They feel all the pressure, like they've got to find the money. Right. How many times we talk about find the money. Right. They have to find the money. They have to do the budget, they have to solve the problems. Our job is to provide the data. It's the superintendent and the Board of Education's leadership combined with our data that makes the decision. We don't make the decisions. We might have thoughts, we might have recommendations, but we're not solving. So another conversation I've had with people, and it's kind of opened my eyes, is take the pressure off yourself, provide the data, and let shared decision making take over. Right. So I've had conversations with people about that. That became very clear to me as well, because if you're going to fight something as hard as cancer, you got to have some reserve energy, and you can't have that negativity.
- [44:34]
A
Right.
- [44:34]
B
You know, John, the other thing I. I think I've. I've talked a little bit about, and I won't get into it just because it's, you know, this is school business, but you have to have some faith.
- [44:42]
A
Yeah.
- [44:42]
B
You know, you have to have some faith. And, you know, for a long time I had moved away from that and, you know, I'd gotten back into that and. And again, I don't want to get too preachy, but you have to believe that you're here for a reason. And, you know, there's probably, you know, a greater good, you know, and a place that, you know, you're going to journey to. So I think, you know, I've told people, have some faith. And then, you know, I think you heard me say a little bit about, you know, community and give back, you know, because, you know, if you can do that as part, you know, as part of just being alive and, you know, feeling good about yourself, you can really, you know, touch so many lives that way. So I just think, you know, spending time with friends and family and having some faith and then giving back to, you know, any. Anything, anytime, if you can just give back, people gave to you, then I think those are three things that just became very clear to me once I received that negative news. And that's what keeps me positive. So my nephew was just here for the weekend. He and my son are going to run the New York City Marathon. And we talked about the positivity that goes along with training. So now we're on a text message group. And I walked two miles and lifted, and they had their running regiment that they're talking about. And then we're all talking about the food that we're trying to eat to be healthy. So, you know, so, you know, we're just trying to keep it light and, you know, and just keep it positive. And that's the only way you get through something like this, knowing that eventually, you know, this is. This is a tough one to beat. So just enjoy as much life as you can. And again, it shouldn't take a terminal diagnosis for people to kind of listen to these words and heed these words, you know, as they move forward. So. So hopefully that that message gets through to people because, man, I don't know about you, but some of these conversations you have with people, you know, at 9:30 at night, when we're having a few cocktails afterwards and they start telling you about their life, their personal lives and, you know, their work life. And I mean, there's. There's people that are in distress in these jobs because. Yeah, because, you know, we're under a lot of pressure and it's like, all right, let's lighten it up. Let's be positive. Let's have fun with life. We're still good. You know, the world's not going to end if we don't run that report out of our financial system. You know, tonight for the board member,
- [47:06]
A
et cetera, perspective's important, you know.
- [47:08]
B
You know, so it's all good, you know, so. But anyway, that's really what I've learned in the short term here.
- [47:14]
A
So as we wind down here.
- [47:16]
B
Yeah.
- [47:17]
A
And as you prepare to retire, what would you say that you're most proud of when you look back on your career, your life, what, what brings you the most pride and joy in what you've done?
- [47:26]
B
Yeah, I, I would say that, you know, the classes that I've taught and the, you know, the people that have taken those classes and the compliments that I've gotten as, you know, as the professor, the instructor, the teacher, you know, I think that's the biggest accomplishment. You know, I've become, along with you, you know, we've become experts in long range financial planning. And, and we know that if we can get our colleagues, which, the percentage of people that actually are actually doing forecasting, it's still pretty dismal. I'd say about a third. I think the classes that we taught and the period of time that I spent working for a software company, I think that had a significant impact. I think a lot of people around the state remember me as the person who taught them how to do long range financial planning. And I think that, you know, that has a huge impact and I think so. I think in the profession, I think that was probably the biggest accomplishment that I brought statewide at a very high level, which impacted a big number of people, is to help them get those reports done and do the long range financial plans.
- [48:33]
A
I remember that jogs my memory. The first time I ever met you and I heard who Mike Vespy is, it was the first year I was a school business official. I think it was the, our annual conference, but it was in Lake Placid and you had just jumped to forecast five. And I remember there was just a flock of people around you saying, I can't believe you did that. Why would you leave, you know, the profession and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But you were passionate about it and you made the most of it and impacted so many people through your private sector work and obviously ultimately came back to school business. But I just remember it was such an unheard of thing and nobody could believe that Mike Vespy, who's been in school business his entire career. I was like, you know what, I'm going to try something else.
- [49:14]
B
It was, that's just it, you know, you reflect, you know, and a lot of people thought I was going through a midlife crisis.
- [49:21]
A
It wasn't a Corvette, it was a career change.
- [49:24]
B
Yeah, I didn't have the money to buy the Corvette, but I could change the job. But no, it really was, you know, I always had that itch for the private sector and you know, that was obviously a startup company and it was exciting and you know, the, the guys who in charge of the company just were wonderful. You know, Scott and Eric Smith and Mike English and you know, I just worked with some of the best, Heather Taylor and you know, some of those folks are also, you know, some of them are still working for Frontline, you know, to this day. And it just, there was just a tremendous team and a tremendous opportunity. But at the end of the day, you know, my passion was public education and I came back into the sector, but I think that was the biggest accomplishment. You know, exactly what you said. Where, you know, I bonded with literally 400 business officials around the state through staff development, doing long range financial planning. I mean, there isn't any bigger stage than that than, you know, we used to travel to all the boces. Like we were, we were just as popular as state aid planning at that point where we did regional trainings and you know, we'd have 20 or 30 people show up and we would, they would come to the session, we'd actually get their long range financial plan done. And, and I just love that because it's like you had your foot in the business world. You still were working in schools. There was the educational component to it. So I think that was really the biggest piece. And then that also gave me the opportunity to bond with new business officials. Right. And that's where that kind of mentorship relationship started. They listened to what I had to say about long range financial planning and then they'd say, oh man. Can I reach out to you after this class? Absolutely. Here's my cell phone and here's my email and whatever you need, ask away. And that's literally how I got to know so many people around the state.
- [51:14]
A
Great. Well, Mike, thank you so much for joining me today and just taking the opportunity to share your story. You're such an inspiration, not just in ASBO New York, but just as a professional, as a human being. And I'm glad that we had time to sit down and informally chat. We've had plenty offline. But I'm just so proud to have had the opportunity to tell your story today.
- [51:33]
B
No, I appreciate it and I appreciate the kind words and the time. And John, I look forward to many more opportunities to collaborate with you. You're a great leader. You're going to be the great leader for ASBO New York in the upcoming year. And I can't tell you how much I'm humbled by you taking the time to talk with me, but also just so appreciative of all of the interactions we've had over the, the years. You know, you're a special leader and I know that's you're going to shine this year. So I really appreciate it.
- [52:04]
A
Thanks, Mike. Appreciate it. Thank you for tuning in to School Business Insider. Make sure to check back each week for your favorite topics on school business.