Forbes Riley | From Actress to the Pitch Queen, $2.5B in Sales, Media, and Modern Selling

Summary

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Episode Overview

Guest: Forbes Riley, dubbed "The Pitch Queen"
Hosts: James, Jack, Josh (School of Hard Knocks)
Release Date: February 25, 2026
Episode Theme:
A dynamic conversation with Forbes Riley—actress turned infomercial icon, $2.5B in sales, and a pioneer of modern pitching and media selling. Forbes breaks down the art and psychology of pitching, shares the pivotal life lessons behind her resilience, reveals her infomercial secrets, and recounts stories of personal transformation, legacy-building, and unlocking potential.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Sales vs Pitching: The Real Difference (00:04, 01:22)

• Forbes Riley distinguishes herself as "the Pitch Queen," resisting the simple tag of salesperson:
  • "I don't [do] sales. I'm the pitch queen and I'm going to show you guys the difference." (00:04, 01:22)
• Pitching is about eliciting a “yes”—sparking curiosity and desire rather than just pushing a product.

2. The Journey: Adversity and Early Challenges (07:50, 08:29)

• Forbes shares her rough upbringing—difficulties with self-esteem, 8 years in braces, and her father's life-changing accident.
  • "Try eight. Eight years [in braces]. ... full silver head, rubber bands, headgear... I watched a lot of tv. I pointed and I wrote notes to get what I wanted." (08:29)
• Overcoming lack of self-worth, she wins Miss Teenage America (state level), emboldened by a simple act of generosity (doctor fixing her nose for free).

3. The Psychology and Power of Self-Talk (12:22)

• The panel references “Psycho-Cybernetics” and the role of self-image:
  • Forbes: “Imagine if one person in one moment can change your life... I had a feeling as a kid. I’m like, I think I’m special.” (12:22)
• The importance of finding belief in oneself and surrounding oneself with at least one advocate.

4. Entering Acting, Media, and the Pivot to Pitch (13:39–15:37)

• Despite an uncertain start in acting, Forbes experiences a breakthrough casting ("Rosalind" in Shakespeare as a college senior).
  • Mentor is legally blind: "He couldn't see me at all, but he could see me." (13:39)
• Early pitching: Stumbles into infomercials through Body by Jake, rapidly excelling as the only woman in a male-dominated field.
  • "I did 1500 different products, everybody from Suzanne Somers to Richard Simmons... Jake sold the network for a lot of money." (04:03–05:45)

5. The Infomercial Formula: The Art and Science of Pitch (20:42–26:51)

• Forbes’ Pitch Masterclass:
  • Start with the problem or pain experienced by the customer.
  • Build curiosity and desire—"Stop telling people what they need. Get them to want what you have." (23:39, 28:24)
  • Use testimonials and edification from others.
  • Offer a solution with urgency and scarcity ("...two for the price of one, deal goes away at midnight").
  • Finish with an over-deliver.
• Demonstration (SpinGym, 24:49–26:51):

  • “Do you want to see something cool?”—gets hosts involved physically, creating experiential desire.

  • Notable Quote:

    • "Nobody wants to know what it is until they want to know why they want it." (25:24)

6. Real-Time Pitching and Feedback (30:18, 31:30)

• Forbes role-plays with the hosts: pitching household items, coaching them on concise, problem-solution-based hooks.
• Breaks down the essentials:
  • "You have a solution... If you've got a problem and you can identify. So you've got a solution, right? You've got whatever company." (31:30)
  • Emphasizes flipping traditional sales psychology.

7. The Human Element: Making Assumptions and Personal Connection (33:38–34:15, 41:51)

• Make assumptions about your audience to better tailor the pitch—think about who they are, their context, and what they’re feeling.
• Remembering names and personalization:
  • "It's the rule of three... Say hi to somebody and remember their name—they feel like you care about them... stop the noise." (41:51)

8. Staying Ahead and Pioneering in Media (45:23–47:14)

• The only constant is change. Forbes stresses the need to evolve with technology, platforms, and mediums.
  • "I understand that change is constant and that's when the only thing is it will always evolve. If you get too comfortable... that's what I was told you needed to do."
• Push for freedom, not conformity.

9. Legacy, Family, and Intergenerational Business (47:28–52:55)

• Forbes’ daughter inspires the next iteration of her business, teaching her to codify and pass on her pitch system via digital media and training.
  • “She literally said, I'm gonna make us a million dollars in a year if you let me.” (47:28)
  • They launch a 100k/month training business, underscoring the idea of legacy over mere success.
  • “She said, the reason we're doing this for you is its legacy... What's that going to be for the next generation?" (52:55)

10. Launching Careers and Famous Collaborations (53:09)

• Forbes shares stories of working with or helping launch the careers of now-household names, including introducing Kim Kardashian to TV, collaborating with Wolfgang Puck and Tony Little.

  • Notable Quote:
    • "Kim was the most adorable person. She's sweet and humble... She was Paris Hilton's best friend... gave her the show. And she was great." (53:09)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On pitching vs sales:

  • “Pitch is getting a yes. Tell me more. If you can do that... you win.” (01:51, Forbes Riley)

• On adversity:

  • "Life happens for you, not to you... if you've been through some bad things in life... there's lessons to be learned. You lose." (07:50, Forbes Riley)

• On creating desire vs need:

  • "Stop telling people what they need. Get them to want what you have." (23:39, Forbes Riley)

• On over-explaining:

  • "People hate to be sold to, but they love to buy." (28:48, Josh; 28:50, Forbes Riley)

• On impact and legacy:

  • "I would like to be remembered as a little girl who had it really tough and chose to survive and thrive, give to others and change lives... if you use it right, [pitch] will absolutely up level your life." (56:19–56:58, Forbes Riley)

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Important Timestamps

• Introduction/Defining Pitch: 00:04–01:51
• Personal Hardship and Resilience: 07:50–11:56
• Self-Image & Transformation: 11:56–13:39
• Breakthrough as Actress & Pitcher: 13:39–16:09, 04:03–05:45
• Pitching Demonstration (SpinGym): 24:49–26:51
• How to Pitch Anything (Live coaching): 30:18–32:24
• Audience Personalization & Name Memory: 41:51–43:03
• Adapting to Media Changes: 45:23–47:14
• Starting Business with Daughter, Legacy: 47:28–52:55
• Kim Kardashian Story: 53:09–55:01
• Final Legacy Lessons: 55:16–56:58

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Final Takeaways

• Pitching is an essential life skill—not just “sales.”
• Focus on sparking desire—don’t overload people with need or features.
• Personal connection and understanding your audience are more important than ever.
• Legacy isn’t about being on stage; it’s about changing lives and passing down wisdom.
• Resilience and taking action are as crucial as any business tactic: "A lot of people may have that feeling, but it's taking action."
• Anyone can learn to pitch—if you’re willing to break the old rules and learn the formula.

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"Nobody defines you but you... surround yourself with at least one advocate. You don’t need the whole world—just someone who believes in you."
(55:16, Forbes Riley)

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For more free resources from Forbes Riley: free gift from Forbes
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Transcript

[James]

The sales mogul, Forbes Freiley Forbes, it's great to be here with you today.

[Forbes Riley]

You know, I have. Can I correct you?

[James]

Yes.

[Forbes Riley]

I don't. Sales. I'm the pitch queen and I'm going to show you guys the difference. Would that be okay today? Absolutely. Huge difference.

[Jack]

You were able to sell 64,000 units in 24 hours.

[Forbes Riley]

Oh, I made a million point two in a day.

[Jack]

Exactly. What is Forbes Riley secret?

[Forbes Riley]

Should I give this to him for free? I charge for this information. A whole lot of money. Don't.

[Jack]

The one rule for a Hard Knocks podcast is there's no. No holding back.

[Forbes Riley]

No holding back. When you say, what do you do? What do you say?

[Josh]

I run the largest online business media brand in the world.

[Forbes Riley]

Why do I care? I've been through some massive, crazy tragedies, including the loss, the murder of a little boy that I raised for 12 years. I don't know if you know that, but you go through these things in life and you're like, okay, if you don't understand, there's lessons to be learned. You lose. Believe in you and find one advocate. You don't need the whole world just yet, but somebody who you can cry with, laugh with, who believes in you and says, you keep going no matter what.

[James]

If me and you died tomorrow and you can leave one more message, the younger generation, what would that be?

[Forbes Riley]

I'm going to start to cry.

[James]

What's going on, everyone? Welcome back to the School of Hard Knocks podcast. I'm James and I'm here with Jack and Josh. And we have an incredible guest for you all today. We are right now with the sales mogul out in Tampa, Florida, Forbes, Riley Forbes. It's great to be here with you today.

[Forbes Riley]

You know, I have. Can I correct you? Yes, I know sales. I'm the pitch queen.

[James]

The Pitch Queen.

[Forbes Riley]

And I'm gonna show you guys the difference. Would that be okay today?

[James]

Yes.

[Forbes Riley]

Huge difference. You pitched me to be on your show.

[James]

100%.

[Forbes Riley]

Are you paying me to be here?

[James]

No.

[Forbes Riley]

Why did I say yes?

[James]

Because we got the platform, we got the brand.

[Forbes Riley]

Bingo. You pitched me.

[James]

Come on.

[Forbes Riley]

Scored.

[James]

So real quick, though, again, I'm not even double the intro yet, but let's talk about the pitch real quick. Define that for the people out there that are watching this right now. What is the pitch? It's what you've mastered and you've generated billions of dollars with that throughout your career.

[Forbes Riley]

You know what's great about it? Pitch is getting a yes. Tell me more. If you can do that, you're not married yet, right?

[James]

No.

[Forbes Riley]

At some point you're liable to pitch somebody to marry you. That's a pitch. And you wanted to say what?

[Josh]

Yes.

[Forbes Riley]

Yes. That is the ultimate answer. So watch this. You guys want to see something cool?

[James]

Yeah.

[Josh]

Yes. Yes.

[Forbes Riley]

I was sudden, I started out. Now here's one of the problems when people go to present what they're doing. They over talk, they under talk, they babble, they list all. And I, I usually start out asking people and you probably have this at home. What do you do right? If someone asks you at a. Do you want to start your pitch by the way, again, I didn't mean. Can we start all over again? I'm sorry.

[Josh]

This is great.

[Forbes Riley]

I interrupted him. I'm in such guys, I'm in such a coach mode.

[James]

So good. This is so good.

[Forbes Riley]

I have over 100,000 students, you guys, and I'm going to share with you. I coach all the time and I don't mean to be that pushy, but I think if you guys get this, imagine how well you've done. Can you imagine 10xing that? And that's what I do for people. Because once you can nail the pitch, the point is when someone asks you what do you do? What do you say?

[James]

I interview billionaires for a living.

[Forbes Riley]

See, that is a great opening line that you know, I've never heard that before. And it's one reason you're successful. Your pitch is so short. I watched you interrupt people on the street and you get it out so fast they say what? Yes, they say yes. Have you ever really seen somebody else do that?

[James]

Not quite.

[Forbes Riley]

No.

[James]

It's not often.

[Forbes Riley]

And it's why you're so successful that you innately like I'm innately. I was, I was never taught this. I. And we'll talk about how I got to this, but I just knew this. I knew what pitching was about. I don't know why. And I'm going to share with you that it was body by Jake who found me and illuminated and allowed me to do this. How did he do that? I was going to be an actress. I had no desire to sell at all. That's why when you said the word sales. I don't like sales. I didn't grow up with money. So if you say Forbes, you know, somebody's like, I know, thank you or buy something, I got, I get really upset. My dad was in the hospital for three years when I was a kid. We were broke. So what I do is sorry. I just lost my whole train of Thought they're so eager, like, oh, God, tell them what you do. If you can nail down how to get someone else to say yes to you, you win. Stop telling people what they need. Get them to want what you have. They want to be on your show. They want to talk to you because your pitch is so like that. So if I said to you, what do you do? What do you say?

[Jack]

We make the best business content in the planet.

[Forbes Riley]

That's a really good pitch, you guys. I'm going to share some with you. You're successful because you do that. Other people, if you're sitting at home watching this, if you haven't nailed that skill, you will not win. So I'm pursuing a career as an actress. I walk into an audition one day and there's a pen on the table and it says, sell me this pen right to a camera. And I immediately, like, I don't want to. And then I could hear my dad's voice. My dad's been gone about 10 years at that point. He said, do something different because that was my dad. He always was like, like, what could. What could be different? How? And I didn't see Wolf of Wall street hadn't been made yet. I looked dead at the camera and I said, you know, it's the funny thing about pens. I was 15 and a half when I went off to college. I was smart enough to skip a grade, but I was so lonely, insecure. And my mom, God bless her, would write me these handwritten notes every day. I would race to the mailbox to get them. And I realized a pen like this can reach out and touch somebody's heart. I put it down and thought, okay. And then Jake comes out from behind the camera, says, you're gonna make me a lot of money. I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about. He had just created this cable 24 hour channel called Fit TV. And he identified that I should be pitching fitness and wellness products. I was not that fit. I was not that well. I was an actress. But there's something that he got. And you know what? He never taught me a single thing about how to do this. He threw me into the fire. And I did 1500 different products, everybody from Suzanne Somers to Richard Simmons and everybody in between brought their product to me. I'm like, oh, okay, here's how you do it. I would write the pitch, we'd practice it, we go on air, we'd sell it. And we did so well that five years later, I did 1500 products. I never had any coaching whatsoever. And Jake sold the network for a lot of money. Yes.

[James]

So, again, going back into this, you know, the thing that I love is that you're not somebody that just talks about this and preaches it. You've done it before, you've mastered this skill, and you've sold not one, but over $2 billion throughout your career.

[Forbes Riley]

Yes. In fact, I stopped counting at two and a half billion because I realized if it was more than that, I'd have to probably show up in the Jet and the Rolls Royce. And I know some of our friends do that. But I'm really modest. I grew up with a very humble beginnings. It's not an act. I drove a Prius for a very, very, very, very long time just because I care about the environment. And I don't need to show you my car, how wonderful I am. I don't buy labels. I don't buy a lot of expensive, showy things because I know who I am and what I'm worth. And that's not typical. So I do walk the walk. I mean, I've been doing this forever, and I want to show people more that this is a skill, not something you're born with. Although I will say that for a long time, I thought I was. I thought I was special. I thought, I can nail this. And I was at the right time, at the right place. So here I am. Body by Jake. Cable TV has just launched. There's 500 channels and ours is booming. He sells it. I'm on fire. What am I going to do next? And infomercials. The idea that nugget just came about. What do we do with TV that happens from midnight to 6am I was the right place, the right time. Here's the really weird thing. Pitch. Men are not women. You go on the boardwalk, you see these guys, you go to a home show. Hey, little lady, I can make a peanut butter, you know, in this blender. Or cut a tomato with a knife. And it's still. You can cut a can with a tomato and it still slices it. You can cut a can with this knife and still slice a tomato. Girls weren't doing this. It was loud, it was energetic. And it's funny, when I see you do your thing and you walk up to people, there's that energy. I naturally run on high and I talk fast and I've got a lot to say. And all of a sudden we're in this environment and they're like, all right, let's pitch products. And this half Hour format came about. I was one of the only girls around, and I worked with Everybody. I did 197 of these shows, work with everyone, and literally started making billions. It was crazy.

[Jack]

Forbes, did you always have the ability to communicate like this? Did you always have this just. Were you born with it? I feel like so many people, you know, some people are just those natural born communicators. Did. Did it start out like that for you?

[Forbes Riley]

Exactly the opposite. I have a couple of philosophies. One is that life happens for you, not to you. And so if you've been through some bad things in life, and I know you guys are all real young, maybe you've been through some trauma. I've been through some massive, crazy tragedies, including the loss, the murder of a little boy that I raised for 12 years. I don't know if you know that, but you go through these things in life and you're like, okay, if you don't understand, there's lessons to be learned. You. You lose. So as a little girl, I. When I first went, My parents are second generation immigrants from Ukraine, and I went to school and my teeth went in all different directions. I used to suck my thumb and I had these big gaps and my jaw was all deformed. And so they put me in braces, which was a really sweet idea. Do you all have braces?

[Josh]

Yes.

[Forbes Riley]

How long?

[Jack]

Like two, three years, Two and a half years.

[Forbes Riley]

That's typical. Try eight. Eight years. They put this little girl in braces, full silver head, rubber bands, headgear. And then they went and screwed this thing into my mouth called the tongue crusher. And so I'm 8 years old. I talk like this, do you want to be my friend? Because nobody wanted to be my friend. I couldn't understand a single word that I said for two years. I watched a lot of tv. I pointed and I wrote notes to get what I wanted. And I. I didn't put this together until much later in my life when I was looking back. Why is communication so important to me? Why is it when I talk to you, I'm looking at you and I want you to get what I'm saying? I know that you're out there and you're listening to me, so I'm not talking for my sake. I know these stories. I'm telling them so that you go, wow, I feel weird. I feel like an outcast. And if she can do that, so can I. That makes my life matter, to be really honest. And so when the braces came off and all of this happened all of a sudden. This is a crazy thing. I love looking back on my life. And you probably will at some point. You guys are looking forward because in your 20s, you do a lot of that. When you get a little older, you look back and there's a great story. And I'm going to unpack some of this for you. But the idea that I could communicate and do all of this led to. So the braces come on. Well, the braces come off, and my mom. Oh, and my dad. Sorry. Has an accident. Like, as if it's not bad enough that I'm an ugly, awkward little girl. He's a printer, and he works on all these giant printing presses. He slipped and he cut off the whole front of his hand. So in one moment, my dad's in the hospital for three years, my entire high school. Every day after school, I go to see my dad, and we are broke. Because apparently the system is, you have to drain all your savings before they can help you. We couldn't afford. I was hungry a lot, and it was kind of weird. I'm in the hospital one day, so emotional. Sorry. And my mom says to me, kiddo, we have no money for college. And I'm like, okay. Really? That. That's the only thing that I really wanted. And she said, but there's the Miss Teenage America pageant coming to town, and they have a scholarship. And she looks at my face. I have a broken nose. They never fixed my nose. My braces came off. But I've got frizzy hair, I'm overweight, and this horrible nose. And she looks at my face. You don't have sisters, do you? She looks at me and she's like, well, that's not going to work for us and your little girl. At least all I wanted to be was pretty. My dad's doctor overheard her saying that, and he turned to her and said, you know what? I'm going to fix your daughter's nose for free. That was a very strange thing. One of my mottos in life is, dream it, believe it, achieve it. So this idea we have dreamed it, believing it is talking about it. She said the idea out loud. And then, you can't. You have to take massive action. That's how you get things. So a couple of days later, I woke up. I had dieted a little bit because I was, you know, I wasn't nearly eating. And we cut my hair off. And the next thing you know, there's a picture, and I'll share it with you guys. I'll send you this before and after photos. Looks like two different people. I looked in the mirror and a really cute little girl looked back and she said something like, we can do this. Like, do what? Enter a beauty pageant? Are you kidding me? I had to go get a hand me down bridesmaid's dress because we had no money at all. I entered, and my. My reason for doing this and as I was looking across the audience was my parents. I'm like, I could save my family right now. And that's what I think the judges picked up on. And I won. And I went to the nationals. Miss Teenage America on TV with Bob Hope, who for you guys, is the Adam Sandler of my generation. I didn't win there, but again, I learned a lot of lessons, and that was one of the first times my life completely changed like that.

[Josh]

There's a book that I love. It's called Psycho Cybernetics.

[Forbes Riley]

Okay?

[Josh]

And it's all about the transformation and pretty much self talk and the view of individuals and their self image. It seems like you had a transformation internally of pretty much going from, I can't. I'm in a terrible situation to believing that you can. How important do you believe it is for people to have self talk and how important. How important is self talk to be successful in any endeavor that you do?

[Forbes Riley]

I just listened to Arnold Schwarzenegger the other day talk about when he was little, he was born in Austria, and he said he knew he was special. He knew he didn't want to be a farmer or a factory worker. And he watched a documentary on America and bodybuilding and said, that's what I'm gonna do. What an obscenely big gesture to say that. I had a feeling as a kid. I'm like, I think I'm special. I could do this. I want to be at the Oscars. I want to be in gowns. I want to be kissing movie stars. I want to be that girl. And the crazy thing is when I looked in the mirror and I saw a much more attractive version of myself, I'm like, yeah, yeah, that's me. But I still had all these insecurities. So crazy things. Imagine if one person in one moment can change your life. Imagine if watching this, us right now, you hearing my voice might change your life. So the first time, it was that many years later, it was Jake was my doctor at the hospital. But then I'm in college, and I thought, okay, you're smart. You should be a lawyer. You should know how to make money. It's a very Solid profession. I don't know what your parents told you you should be, but they're like, you know, you need a plan B. I don't think podcast host was really what they thought, right? No. So my parents, like, you know, be a lawyer. I'm in college, and I couldn't let the acting bug go. I couldn't let the dream of. I wanted to be an actress, but it was so obscene. Nobody I knew was act for a living. And I. When I was in high school, we did lots of plays. Do you ever do plays in school?

[Jack]

When I was real young, yeah.

[Forbes Riley]

Okay. Well, I was so bad that I was never a lead character. I was the chorus. I was Townsperson number three. And they're like, okay, I get to college. And they were doing Shakespeare's as yous like it. Biggest character he ever wrote for a female called Rosalind. She's in the entire play for two and a half hours. And I'm like, I'm going to audition. It's my senior year. Last chance. I go to the call board and I'm looking for. My name is, what townsperson do I get to play? And my name's not there. And I had this moment of going, see, you really aren't that good. And I remember this moment because the next moment was life changing. I'm like, who got that role? And I look at the top, under Rosalind, there's my name. And I'm like, I think somebody made a mistake. And I went to the drama professor who was the director, and I said, I'm sorry. Me? Really? Do you know what you did right? Because I don't even do Shakespeare that well. He's like, let me tell you something. And he sat me down and he said, this is who you are. You're my ideal Rosalind. You are complicated and curious and funny and manipulative and all of these things that she is. And the coolest thing about Professor David Richmond. See, everyone had always judged my looks. The size of my body, the frizziness of my hair. He was 100% legally blind. He couldn't see me at all, but he could see me. And the play was a success. And based on his belief in me, I said, mom and Dad, I love you very much. I'm going to New York City to be an actress. They were like, we can't help you. We have no real money to do that. I said, I'm good. Moved to New York, auditioned for my very first film ever got the lead role. And I know you all are going to watch Splatter University. It's a slasher horror, 80s film, but I starred in, and it was the start of everything. One guy.

[Jack]

I love that.

[James]

And, you know, you said something in there early on. You brought up the thing about Arnold Schwarzenegger where he kind of saw that vision for himself, and he's like, I'm going to do that. And I even think back to us. Like, I always had that innate feeling ever since I was growing up in high school and college, like, I was not meant to kind of just graduate from school and just go work, like a normal job, and that be it for me.

[Forbes Riley]

Did you ever tell anybody that feeling?

[James]

We always used to scheme a little bit.

[Jack]

I think all three of us used to. I mean, if you were to go back to when we were. I was a senior in high school in physics class, and someone said, you know, you're going to build a business off of street interviewing someday. I would have looked at them like, you're out of your mind.

[James]

But there's always that feeling that we were gonna do something.

[Jack]

I always used to just tell people, it's like, I know that I'm gonna do something massive with my life, okay?

[Josh]

And you know what's funny is, looking back is I remember Jack and I would meet at IHOP almost on, like, an annual basis and just talk about what we're up to and, like, what's kind of going on. And, like, some of the plans that we had for the future. And little did we know, a few years later, the three of us would start the school of hard knocks.

[Forbes Riley]

Kind of funny how that happens. And it's interesting when you look back on it, you're like, well, that makes sense that we spent that time scheming and that you always thought that and you working with your brother. But going forward, you don't know that.

[James]

Right?

[Forbes Riley]

And they call that three feet from gold. Most people stop short because they don't want to take perseverance. No one gave you this, did they?

[James]

No, definitely not.

[Forbes Riley]

And they're like, I believe I can. I think all of you at home have that something inside of you. But. But you don't do it because you let other people. One of my favorite mottos is, don't let somebody else's opinion of you become your reality.

[Jack]

You can't let someone else's opinions pay your bills.

[Forbes Riley]

Oh, all right, it's getting better now.

[James]

Hey, what's going on, guys? We're going to be right back to this episode with forbes. Riley, the $2 billion sales mogul but before we do that, I wanted to make this announcement to remind you all that if you have not done so already, make sure that you're subscribed to the Hard Knocks podcast, because every single week, we. We bring you guys the craziest business guests in the entire world. And be sure to share this episode with a friend, so that way they do not miss out on the free game that they're getting in this episode and on this channel. With that being said, let's get back to the episode where I wanted to go is that. I think the difference, though, that separates the people that end up making it in their industry is that a lot of people may have that feeling, but it's taking action. You know, another saying is, we're full of these sound bites, is that a lot of people, they're addicted to education, but they're allergic to execution. You went out to New York to kind of pursue the acting career prior to acting, right? Because where you found your bread and butter was. Was actually kind of in the business and in particular in the early on, like, media landscape, what was the transition to getting into that to becoming, like, one of the greatest infomercial salespeople of all time?

[Forbes Riley]

Certainly not planned. I can look back on it and see that it was. My dad was a printer, and he always had dirty hands. And he said to me, there's only two girls in my family. He was also a crazy inventor. He would. I had a Batmobile as a kid made out of a half a garbage can, a lawnmower engine, chicken wire and paper mache. And it went four miles an hour. And my dad would dream of these crazy things. And I remember sitting in his garage when I was a kid, and he turned to me and said, kiddo, because he was very not social. How do I get my ideas out to the world? I'm like, dad, I have no idea. I'm eight. When he died, I watched the garbage guys clean out his garage and all of his ideas. And it hit me that if you don't take action, if you don't get your ideas out to the world while you're on this side of the dirt, when you die, they die. And I was left with this going, all right, you know what? It's uncomfortable. What do you guys. You guys are smiling.

[James]

I got one for you. Do you know where the most valuable piece of real estate is?

[Forbes Riley]

Yeah, the graveyard.

[James]

It's in graveyards because there's billion dollar IDs in the ground of people that never took action.

[Forbes Riley]

Right. But. And I. But I watched this firsthand. I watched my precious dad, who was not very social, who couldn't really hold a conversation because he was a. He was a tinkerer. But the greatest. This is really crazy. Do you guys do magic tricks at all?

[James]

No.

[Josh]

No.

[Jack]

When I was a kid, a little bit, but nothing.

[Forbes Riley]

Well, my dad was a magician and he made me do magic when I was a kid. And the coolest thing I think that I learned that allows me to pitch and be different from everyone else out there is that I. He made me do magic tricks. And a trick is weird, like if you just do it, like, oh, here's a card that doesn't work, but if you set it up and do the patter. And my goal in a magic trick is to make you believe the impossible is possible. That's a big leap of faith. And I think that's where all of my. My philosophies come from, is that I've got something, I'm going to show it to you. I'm going to make you believe that what I do is worthwhile for you. And there's a lot of philosophies and they all stem back to magic.

[Jack]

So when I was, you know, a young kid and, you know, I was that last week. It could have been last week. I know I look young, but, you know, stay up late at night and you see all the infomercials or even when I was just be watching tv, the commercials, and I'm like, man, I can't wait to. When I'm an adult to be able to buy some of these things. Like for me, I would see the Shamwow or I would see. Even on Nickelodeon they would have different infomercials and things like that.

[Forbes Riley]

Jack, Jack. Lean Juice was one of the most famous ones.

[Jack]

Yeah, the Orbeez or whatever, you know, they had a bunch of different stuff. I think the most recent one that I can remember is like the Flex Seal guy that did the Flex Seal. But the thing that I didn't know back then that I. That my thought process is now is like, man, these are master pitchers. Like, how. How could you just give us a master class of like, how do you sell it?

[James]

We have a.

[Jack]

We have a good friend. We actually call him the Sound Bite King. His name's Joshua Crisp. And when we interviewed him, he said, oh, I made a million dollars in a day through a webinar.

[Forbes Riley]

Yep.

[Jack]

And so, you know, before this podcast, you, you were showing us that, you know, hey, like you were able to sell, you know, 64,000 units in. In like 24 hours, I made a

[Forbes Riley]

million point two in a day.

[Jack]

Yeah, exactly. What is Forbes Riley secret to pitching an infomercial?

[Forbes Riley]

What? What, do you give this to him for free? I charge for this information. A whole lot of money, though.

[Jack]

The one, the one rule for a Hard Knocks podcast is there's no holding back.

[Josh]

No holding back.

[Forbes Riley]

There's no holding back. All right, well, let's start with something. When you go to sell something and pitch something, do you think that most people over talk it?

[James]

Yeah, they always talk past the sale.

[Forbes Riley]

Right. So let's assume that we've got a stain remover. Pitch it for me.

[Jack]

Give me a sec. That's a good question.

[Forbes Riley]

Yeah, I know it is.

[Jack]

So, Forbes, you like to eat food, right?

[Forbes Riley]

Let's pretend you're like, yes, I do.

[Jack]

You like to eat food. Do you like Italian food?

[Forbes Riley]

Yes.

[Jack]

Do you like spaghetti?

[Forbes Riley]

Love it.

[Jack]

So you know when you get tomato sauce with the spaghetti and you're going to eat it, you know, it's quite possible that the tomato couldn't land on your. On your shirt. Is that correct?

[Forbes Riley]

Mm.

[Jack]

And so since you're the pitch queen and you're gonna be going on stage, you know, you can't avoid eating Italian food forever. Is that correct?

[Forbes Riley]

You're so cute.

[Jack]

You saw where I was going with it.

[Forbes Riley]

Here's the problem. It's gonna take you way too long.

[Jack]

Way too long.

[Forbes Riley]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jack]

Way too over talking.

[Forbes Riley]

No, no, no. But so that's okay. That's

[James]

the agency salesman right here.

[Forbes Riley]

Come on. You know how I do so well. And by the way, people like Tai Lopez and lots of other guys in the industry, we talked about this when, when, when digital marketing first started. Guys, how did you do an infomercial structure? Because there is a structure. So the brothers, they know something.

[James]

I'm laughing because. Because he was just scheming that one

[Forbes Riley]

up right there, you know? Well, but it was good.

[Jack]

It was good.

[James]

Well, you got a break.

[Forbes Riley]

Well, here's the talk too much.

[James]

He's asking questions.

[Forbes Riley]

Who says that's a good thing? O. Okay, so here's the thing, guys. That's one on one. One on one. You cannot make as nearly as much money if I do one too many. Right? So now you, now you got a TV camera. Now you have no idea how you start. You don't ask them questions, they can't answer you. So the first thing you do is not talk about the product. Guys, I've got a stain remover. Everything in this cup, man. Handy dandy. Stain Remover. Right. I'm not going to show it at all. What am I going to do? I'm going to set up the problem. Hey, guys, see my nice white carpet here? Have you ever done this where you've spilled like red wine or spaghetti sauce? What do you do? You put the couch over you hope mom doesn't see it because nothing works. So now I've reminded them at home that they have a problem. Oh, man, I do that. Or do you have that shirt at home that you've got a pen ink on? Going to throw it away? What if I told you magically I could make it a race? I'm still not showing you the product though. I built curiosity and a want. What you were building towards was a need. And it's the exact opposite of how psychology works. Stop telling people what they need. Get them to want what you have. It's very different. You were getting there, but it was taking you a long time to get there.

[Jack]

It was taking me a light year to get there.

[Forbes Riley]

Well, you know what? I got a training for that. And I have a formula. And here's the crazy thing, and I probably shouldn't tell you this, guys, but the formula works every single time on any product. How do you think I sold 1500 products unbodied by Jake? I had a formula. And so the first part of it is to get them to want what you have. Yeah, I've got a stain. Oh, my God, Mark. And you imagine this. It's an infomercial. It's 2 o' clock in the morning. You're like, oh, honey, you got to stay on the carpet. You listen to her right Then I'm still not going to tell it to you. So now you're like, wait, I want this. I want this. Then I'm going to have him. Come on. Going, I use this product and my wife still loves me. She was going to throw out that carpet. $800 I saved right. Now I really want it even more because you're a third party. I'm not telling you how wonderful it is. Somebody I don't know is edifying me and edifying the product. Oh, man. By the time I get to I have the solution. You got your credit card out and then what do I do? I over deliver. Because I'm not going to give you one. I'm going to give you two for the price of one. Come on, this is such a good deal, right? And the deal goes away at midnight. Oh, it's midnight where you are. You got minutes to get you're creating urgency, urgency, scarcity, all those words that you're taught. But I set it up so that you have no other choice. If you've got a stain somewhere in your life, you want this. All right, so now I'm going to do it in real time. It's going to be challenging to do this with a mic that I hold.

[James]

I'll hold it for you.

[Forbes Riley]

I created. Thank you. That was pretty good. I created the greatest fitness product on the planet. Do you believe that? No. Why would you? It's a piece of metal, right? What could this possibly do for me? So here's a funny thing. This is a product I created called Spin. Jim. Anybody here have saggy arms? Kind of. Maybe your mom, sister, brother. You know, I want to tighten my arms. Yeah. So I used to have a booth, I used to rent booths, you know, affairs. And I would meet people and I would tell them all about this product because I am in the National Fitness hall of Fame. I didn't tell them I'm in it because I sold more than anybody else. I was never that fit. But I would tell them all these things, make them do all of these wonderful exercises. Don't worry, I won't hit you. And they would leave after I explained all of this because even though I knew all of it, I fell into my own trap. Nobody wants to know what it is until they want to know why they want it. So you want to high pitch this?

[Jack]

Yes.

[Forbes Riley]

Oh, good.

[James]

We want to know. We want to know.

[Forbes Riley]

All I say is, do you want to see something cool? What do you say?

[Josh]

Yes.

[Forbes Riley]

Yes. Okay, so hold this mic for me for a second. I'm going to start James closest to me, so give me your thumbs. You know what that is? That's called an embed. That's called an embedded command. Why did he give me his thumbs? Cuz, I. I told you to. I asked for the order. I to watch this. I'm going to put this on your hands right here. Make a fist so you don't lose it. Make a fist, spin your. Bend your thumbs and I want you to go 10, 9, 8. Go. 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Now straighten your arms like Superman. Come on, Keep going straight your arms like I know out here Superman flies. Okay, I got you. 9. And if I made him take his shirt off, but I think he'd probably. Can I do that? I love to see. Look at those triceps. Boom. They are. His delts are going crazy. 5, 4, 3, 2. Now put this on your chest over here. Bend Your elbow, bend your elbow. Punch. Punch like you mean it. And they. You are turning very red, my friend. How you feeling?

[James]

I feel good. Yeah, I'm getting that working.

[Forbes Riley]

How many do you want? You want it in silver or gold?

[James]

Gold.

[Forbes Riley]

Okay, so I just made a sale. Let's move on. And literally, if you move on, stop talking. Because, look, you broke out in us. Yeah. What other guest on your show has ever made you sweat?

[James]

No one.

[Forbes Riley]

There you go. All right, so hold this other microphone because your brother's gonna. Wait. I gotta experience.

[James]

Yeah.

[Forbes Riley]

Jack, come on. All right, I'm gonna trade places with you. We're totally messed up your camera. Sorry about it. All right, so give me thumbs. Here we go. And hold that. And go. 10, 9, 8, 7, 6. Oh, wow.

[Jack]

You feel that right away?

[Forbes Riley]

Oh, I'm sorry, what'd you say?

[Jack]

You feel that right away.

[Forbes Riley]

Now keep going. Don't let it sag. Lean back a little bit. Right there. Now where do you feel it, my friend? What are you feeling? Your abs?

[Jack]

Yeah, Just a little bit.

[Forbes Riley]

Yeah, he's also. Now you're laughing because he's sweating. So what are we doing right now? I didn't tell you what it is or why it is. You're telling me you want one?

[Jack]

Man, we're getting that burn right here. I can feel it. And feel it in the. The back of the shoulders right here. You know, in a break in between work calls. Right, for sure.

[Forbes Riley]

And think about your mom. You want another one for her?

[Jack]

Might as well. I mean, she. She'll probably need this. Yeah.

[Forbes Riley]

So now we made two sales and you're drooling. And I'm not going to give it to you. Haha. Scarcity. I've only got two.

[Josh]

This is a master class right here.

[Forbes Riley]

That's the whole. That is the goal.

[Josh]

There is one place. They don't teach this in school. They don't teach this in school.

[Forbes Riley]

Oh, I know that. They don't teach you how to make money in school. They didn't teach me how to balance my checkbook in school. And they didn't teach me to have personal relationships in school. Can we revamp how school is?

[James]

We may need to.

[Forbes Riley]

We teach you guys to make money. Is it okay if I sit here? Are you guys cool with that? All right, I've now moved over here and you've got this sense of. I want to try this, don't you?

[Josh]

Absolutely.

[Forbes Riley]

Isn't that funny? That's how I've sold about 2.8 million of these things so far.

[Josh]

And I think what also just reinforces is the fact that they're talking through their own experience with. With it as well.

[Forbes Riley]

Right? So imagine this. I'm one of them. One of the problems, because I hear pitches every day, all day. People go, I've got this product. It's great. It does this. I love it. And you're like, I don't care because I don't care about why I want it. So write this down, guys. Stop telling people what they need. Get them to want what you have. You literally want this right now. I created a want. When you do that, you got a sale. It's crazy.

[Josh]

People. People hate to be sold to, but they love to buy.

[Forbes Riley]

Oh, man, you guys are stealing all my lines.

[James]

We get. We've read them all out right now.

[Forbes Riley]

Say that again.

[Josh]

People. People hate to be sold to, but they love to buy.

[Forbes Riley]

We buy every day.

[James]

And they love shopping with friends.

[Forbes Riley]

They do love shopping with friends. They also. So I. And I have about a hundred thousand students. I literally come to you and say, look, you no longer have a product or a service. You have a solution. What does that mean? It's a solution to a problem someone else has. So if I said to you, you don't really want three pieces of metal and a string, but if you've got saggy, flabby arms and no time to work out, oh, my gosh, what if I told you this also does in and outer thighs, and you can do it at your desk, in your car while you're waiting for your kids. All of those things. Just seriously reinforce the fact that this is the coolest fitness product on the planet.

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Forbes Riley]

Anyway, that's how you sell everything. So you felt like I put you on the spot, right?

[James]

Yes.

[Forbes Riley]

Okay. Put me on. You can't put me on the spot. It's crazy.

[Josh]

Pitch me the book.

[Forbes Riley]

Pitch the. Oh, oh, give me five. You just got a free spin, Jim. There you go.

[Jack]

The scarcity's gone.

[Forbes Riley]

The scarcity's gone. Yeah, but you don't. You still don't have one. I'm gonna ask for your. I'm gonna ask for your credit card. Hold up.

[James]

The rule is, while she's pitching you to the book, you gotta. You gotta do the exercise.

[Forbes Riley]

All right, so the crazy thing is, if you've got a product or service and you're not getting the leads and the attraction that you want, you're over talking. And if you. So I always ask people, just pick an arbitrary product for a second and I'll like a.

[Josh]

The.

[Jack]

The coaster that you put this.

[Forbes Riley]

Okay, coaster. We're gonna sell coasters now. So I. How would you. You already did this for me. How would you sell a coaster? Real quick, what would you do?

[James]

Am I selling to.

[Forbes Riley]

Let's say, assume you're selling to a camera, a coaster.

[James]

Okay, so this is not directly to one person. This is to, like a live.

[Forbes Riley]

Yeah. Where do you start?

[James]

Have you ever had your table up because of all the water that you get?

[Forbes Riley]

Okay, so that's not gonna air on general television.

[Josh]

That's actually a hook right there.

[James]

I got you. I got you. Have you ever had your table permanently ruined due to the water that has, you know, came off from the drink of your cup?

[Forbes Riley]

Okay, let me. Let me break down what you just did, which was so right on, which is why you're successful. Just to be really clear, you innately have the same skill that I do. Most people don't innately have this, which is why I have this book to teach you what you did. So I have. You have a solution. The solution is a coaster. The biggest problem it solves is what stains on a table. And that's exactly where you started. You don't start with. He doesn't say, look, I've got a coaster with a picture of a dime on it. And you didn't tell us about the coaster at all. If you've got a problem and you can identify. So you've got a solution, right? You've got whatever company. Give me another company, another. And I'll explain this again. Dog walking.

[Jack]

Yeah.

[Forbes Riley]

Okay. Dog walking. That's a service, right? What's the biggest problem somebody has? Who's hiring a dog walker?

[Josh]

Time.

[Forbes Riley]

Whoa. There you go. All right, what's another one?

[Josh]

Trust inconvenient.

[Forbes Riley]

Trust inconvenient. Okay.

[Jack]

Energy.

[Forbes Riley]

So now what if I just question Flip this, looked at the camera and said, hey, guys, if you've got a beautiful dog at home and you don't have the time because you're going off to work, to walk them, to love them, it's inconvenient, but you know how much they need it. I've got a service that will make your dog feel love. The person's like, that's a solution to my problem. And this question, Flip, is truly. When you. And by the way you guys all heard it, he. He innately has got it in his DNA. But most people, like, oh, I don't really understand it. And as soon as you start talking about your product or about, I have a dog walking service, we take your dog, whether they're small or big for eight hours a day. You don't care until you care. And that's one of the biggest things I illuminate for people. Y' all have the answer. You just have it in the wrong order.

[James]

I want to ask, where did this even start? I know that we've talked about somebody that we've interviewed before that's, you know very well is Jake Steinfield. He's body by Jake. Was he the one that had gotten you into the infomercial space?

[Forbes Riley]

So let's to chronologically make that Jake did something. And Jake, I know your house just burned down in California and I reached out to you and talked to you on the phone. He was the first person to identify me. I am so, so grateful. I would have just been an actress and I would have been very happy.

[James]

I wish I could go back and have a conversation. We need to have a conversation with Jake and figure out what his process for identifying talent was.

[Forbes Riley]

Because I would love to know a

[James]

asset, you know, that you work for him.

[Forbes Riley]

Well, that's what I'm like, Jake, how did you. You saw 500 actresses and he's like, you like what? I didn't even understand what we were doing. But again, with that pen, Most people would say, what with the pen? Imagine they'd say, oh, the pen's got a little clicker thing. It's got black ink. It feels good in your hand, sells for a buck. I didn't do that. I immediately went where you go to this. I understood hook. I understood how to get you to want what I have. And we did. I mean, I did 1500 different products. It didn't matter what the product was. I could understand why the person at home wants it. Here's another key thing most people never stop to do. You know what assumptions are?

[James]

Yes.

[Josh]

Yeah.

[Forbes Riley]

Well, maybe you do. Because in the old days they used to say, you make an assumption. You make. Assume. It's making ass of you and me because you assumed. No, you want to make assumptions before you talk to anybody. So I had an assumption about who you guys were. Now, you can shatter that when you meet somebody, but you want to go into it prepared, right? But if you're looking at a TV camera, let's say you're on home shopping. It's 9 o' clock in the morning on a Tuesday and I have to sell between two and $5,000aminute every minute we're on the air. What assumption can you make about that audience?

[Josh]

They're just getting ready for the day. They're a bit Tired, they're, you know, getting ready for work, they're in a rush right now.

[Forbes Riley]

Where's what's interesting when you pitch me the stain. You didn't make an, you made an assumption about me. But if it was a generic audience, you didn't make an assumption about why that person over there would want what we had. So my assumption clock works overtime. So if you're at home at 9am and you're watching QVC, you're sick with some disease, you're got a kid at home, you got a parent at home, you're taking care of, you just got fired, you don't work at all. What? And I would literally go, okay, now it's two o' clock in the morning and I'm on same assumption, same people or no, completely different people. So now I'm going to talk to those people and say, hey guys, you know what? It's 2am in the morning. Did you just get home from a party? Because I got a product for you. And literally talk to them, meet them where they are and understand just even sitting across from somebody, you look at them and make an assumption who they are, what values do they have. And the more you talk to somebody for real, the better you get at it. But to make no assumptions and not think about them and only think about you is the worst way to do this.

[James]

One of my favorite pillars of the pitch and sales in general that you had brought up here was this concept of like not over explaining. And we see so many times like, you know, you wish you could tell people. It's like, dude, put your foot in your mouth and shut up. You know what I mean? When, when, when they're trying to get business from somebody, right? Josh has a beautiful story about at the time when one of his mentors had told him, you know, he was trying to tell somebody.

[Josh]

I was, I was, I was dead broke at a dinner table and I didn't have any money to pay for the food and so I was sucking in. And so I was thinking about the.

[James]

He told us on one of our other podcasts recently. And I think about this all the time.

[Josh]

And I'll never forget I was telling the waiter this long story about why I'm not ordering food and I'm gonna be heading out soon. And my mentor grabbed me by the shoulder and he said, josh, nobody gives a fuck. He said, stop over explaining yourself. He's like, they don't care and you shouldn't care about what they think about you.

[James]

So to tie that though back into Here, from your perspective, right? When is it, like, too much? Right? Like, when do you know? You know, like, Stephen Klubeck sold a company to Hilton for a couple billion dollars. He's based in Los Angeles, and his thing is, you know, you put the pen across the table and shut up. You know? So I want to kind of get your take on that, because this is important right here. And a lot of people, they just are. They blabber, blabber. They keep just yapping, yapping, yapping, when they already maybe have the business.

[Forbes Riley]

Well, the first part of that equation is I call an open door. If you're not. When you sat down, you all looked at my little fitness product, but none of you played with it just yet. Right? I had to kind of wait till the right moment to introduce it, otherwise you wouldn't have been interested. Like, here, try this. You're like, okay, that's nice, but. So I set it up in a certain way for you to play with it, experience it, and all of a sudden you're like, okay, I get it. Do I need to say anything else about the product? You wanted one. It's very tempting to want to say, look, I'm in the National Fitness hall of Fame. I've sold two and a half billion, a million of those things. It comes in all different colors. It sells for this. Why would I do that? So a little bit of is. I call it jumping rope. You know what double dutch is that kind of. There's two jump ropes. And if you jump in too soon, what happens? You get smacked in the head. So you got to understand this time, and you got to feel your audience and you got to be open and available, that it's not all about you. And maybe it's part of our generation, but it's really hard for people to understand. We don't really care. We don't. Like you said, leading with that whole story, you just want to get a yes. When at some point, when you ask somebody to marry you and they say yes, are you going to keep explaining why it's a good idea? No. Right. That's probably the only time you really get, yes, shut up, kiss her and move on. Or him, whatever. But you don't keep talking. Somehow when people have products, and that one. That breaks my heart. You know about network marketing?

[James]

Yes.

[Forbes Riley]

Network marketing is a really cool concept. It means that you don't have to make the product, somebody else does. It's usually a good product that you found that you, like, did something for you, so you want to share it. With other people, it's all about pitching. And almost everyone I've ever met starts out with, hey, I've got this new product. It's this. This cream that fixes this. I had a terrible thing with my finger. Oh, my God, you should see how horrible that is. And they're like, huh, huh? Where is the person in that equation? And so. And then they'll keep talking, and then they'll tell you the ingredients of it, and then they'll ask you if you want to be in the business. You're like, sorry, you're not talking to me at all. There's no open door here. But if you said, hey, I noticed that you keep rubbing your finger. Do you have pain in your hand? You go, oh, yeah, man, you want to try something? And you literally put it on your finger. Call me today, let me know how that works for you. Most people don't have the courage to do that and walk away. I. My little. My line when I meet you, hey, you want to see something cool? You say, yes, give me your thumbs. Or I also have another version of that where I'm like, ask me. Oh, this. Okay, let's get to back. One of the core principles. Ask me what I do.

[Jack]

What do you do?

[Forbes Riley]

I could tell you a lot of things, right? I could tell you that I'm a television host, that I've sold all this, that I'm. I usually only say at a party, I created the greatest fitness product on the planet. Want to see it?

[Jack]

Now I'm intrigued. I gotta see it, right?

[Forbes Riley]

And then I'll be at a party, and we'll start playing. And I don't tell you what I do, because this. This started for two reasons. One, I'm an introvert. Are you an introvert? Do you think? I know you're extrovert.

[James]

What would you guys say? It's got to be. It depends on the audience, depends on

[Jack]

the situation, depends on the sit.

[Forbes Riley]

That's called an extroverted introvert.

[James]

Yes. That's a good way to put it.

[Forbes Riley]

I would. I'm very happy staying at home. One of my greatest moments, the Friday night of COVID The first Friday night, we were all, you're not allowed to go out. I'm like, oh, that's so cool. I can stay home. And nobody wants me to party with them or yell at me or make me feel bad, because I really am kind of a homebody, and I'm very quiet doing that. But you put me in the center of a room, and I command the room or I teach the room or I love being on stage. All those things are great, right? So funny. So I would go to networking events and I'd see somebody and I'm like, not doing anybody know what to do. No one taught me how to do this. I'd feel uncomfortable. I remember how bad this got. I moved to Hollywood. I'd been in. I'm working in New York. I was a Broadway actress. I was working on soap operas. Things were good. I moved out to la. And I am a very sensitive person. Kind of a cool thing, unless you're out in a lot of people. I pull up to the Beverly Wilshire Hotel in my Camaro that I paid cash for. I was so excited. Kind of a little stick shift car. And I pull up and there's the Rolls, the Mercedes and the Lamborghini, cars I'd never even seen because before the Internet, I didn't know they were like, very fancy. A valet who probably makes less money than I did at that moment looks down his nose at my little, you know, car. And so I'm like feeling like, okay. And I walk into this Hollywood party and you know all the celebrities, and I'm looking around going, wow, I am the least attractive, least famous, least successful person in the room. I should leave. And that's what my brain said to me. And I left. And I'll never forget, many years later, I'm thinking, I missed out on finding a great agent, hanging out with a celebrity, maybe meeting a boyfriend. I didn't have any of those. And I went home and I realized that can't work for me. What do I need to do? So I created a system about how to introduce myself and how to literally stick my hand and go, hi, nice to meet you. My name is Forbes Riley. And then I. Okay, here's another thing. My name. If you got a weird name, hi, my name is Forbes Riley. People go, what's your name? I'd say, Forbes. And they say, what? I said, Forbes Riley. And they would say, oh, is Riley your first name? I'm like, no, Forbes is. And they would say, are you sure? And the first five minutes of meeting people was all about my name. Like, this is bizarre. So I created a solution for that. Hi, my name is Forbes. Forbes Riley. Forbes as in the magazine. I stopped talking. You never forget it. That was a good thing.

[Jack]

It's association to something people know.

[Forbes Riley]

Yes. And it explained so I didn't have to go through it.

[Josh]

One of the things that I noticed that when we first met is that for every person that Came into the room and introduced themselves to you.

[Forbes Riley]

You.

[Josh]

You created a naming convention for them. So how can someone never forget someone else's first name?

[Forbes Riley]

Very simple. It's the rule of three. So when everybody walked in for this, I. I knew your name because I've seen you on television. And then I said, jack, as in, my mom's name was Jackie. My daughter's middle name is Jax. Take the moment. Stop the noise. Do you know that one of the most successful things you can do is to re. Say hi to somebody and remember their name? They feel like you care about them, like they're loved on, like they're special,

[Josh]

because most people forget the other person's

[Forbes Riley]

name because they're too in their head. It's not about you. It is about. And everyone's like, I want to serve. Well, then start by serving your name. I said, your name is Joshua. I'm married to a Joshua. Boom. I got it. Now I know your names. And the coolest thing is, when you're at a party, do you ever forget somebody's name? You're like, oh, you don't want to walk up to them. You don't want to say hi to them. You're like, introduce them. So I know. Remember, take a moment out of your busy life because it's not all about you, and go, okay, catalog that. I got Jack. I got Joshua. I got Jason. And all of a sudden, it does a lot for you, especially if you're an introvert. People like, oh, hey, hi. And you remember their name later. But that's only the first part of it. Now the big question. Oh, my God, and this is such a big deal. What do you do? So you've. You see, this is not fair for these guys, because you know what you do, and it's why you're so excited when you say, what do you do? What do you say?

[Josh]

I run the largest online business media brand in the world.

[Forbes Riley]

Did you swallow the word media? Did you hear what he said? What did he say?

[James]

He said. He said, I run the largest online media brand in the world.

[Forbes Riley]

Why do I care? And I look at you, really young, and my first reaction is, he's full of. That's. That was my first reaction. But also, what if I change the question, okay? Because my answer, my response, that is. That's nice for you. And that's not a good response. He's on the spot. He's like, oh, God, he's swallowing. She put me on the spot. Are you so lucky you're not on this couch here's another question. What can you do for me?

[James]

I can give you access to the richest people in the world.

[Forbes Riley]

I know the answer. You're the sturgeon.

[James]

Come on, Smith.

[Forbes Riley]

No, I'm watching him. Come on.

[Josh]

Yeah, I can give you access to my network. Do you want to answer like as if we're in a conversation? Yeah. Access to my network, access of the industry, know how and knowledge of the industry. I'd say those are the two biggest things. Access and know how.

[Forbes Riley]

Okay, so I meet you at an event and you say. I say. What do you do? Say, you know what? As one, as one of the owners of one of the largest media companies on the planet. I know it's kind of hard to believe. I look young and I am young, wildly successful. What if I could give you access and help level up what you do? That's a tell me more moment. Yeah, that was the same amount of time. Just flipped it around. And all of a sudden your response to what do you do? Because I have an ism. Nobody cares what you do when they ask. They care what you can do for them.

[James]

I love that. So I wanted to ask too, because we were looking at some clips of yours, of some of your shows and different things that you've been involved in. And one person in particular that was kind of doing a testimony on you that we saw was Kevin Harrington, who's one of the original, you know, sharks on Shark Tank. And one of the things that he mentioned in particular was that, you know, Forbes, you have always been so quick to adapting to various trends and whatnot and seeing what was going to come before it even came. And when you look at your career, I mean, you were one of the pioneers in, you know, the fitness, you know, TV sales sort of landscape. You've pivoted the business now to where you're kind of in, you know, the online, the social media space. How have you just consistently stayed on top of those trends, like when media shifting, when industries are shifting? What have you done to kind of consistently make sure that that happens?

[Forbes Riley]

One, I understand that change is constant and that's when the only thing is it was always evolve. If you get too comfortable in what you do. And I've never worked for anybody. I mean, I worked for Jake for a while, but not really. I don't. I didn't set out to get a job. That's what I was told you needed to do. Have a career, get a job, 30 years, get your pension. Everyone around me growing up on Long Island, New York, that's What they wanted, I didn't. I wanted freedom. I wanted success. I wanted to travel, I wanted to see the world. I wanted to. I wanted a fantastic life. In fact, I probably did something crazy. I was 20 years old. I graduated college with two degrees in three years. I was. On paper, I was a really smart kid, completely not social. I had very few friends, but I. But I wanted to get out of that and into the world. So I got a book called Europe on $20 a day. And my parents. My mom was a bit of an agoraphobe. She wouldn't leave the house. My dad, very quiet, very simple. And I looked at them and I said, I love you guys. I just don't want to be you. And when I said I was going to Europe because I just finished starring my first movie, I had a couple of thousand dollars, not a lot of money, but I'm going to go see the world. And my mom was like, why? I'm like, because I have a vision that when I'm 83 years old, I'm going to tell the story of my life. And there's going to be kids and grandkids and people are going to listen to this story and want to know. Kind of like Hans Christian Andersen. And at the moment, I have nothing to talk about. And I got on a plane and my entire life literally in the back of my mind is like, is this a great story to tell you guys? There's stories that you don't know. I helped start the X Games for espn. Did you know that?

[Josh]

Did not.

[Forbes Riley]

Yeah, I know. It's one of those. You did what? I have. I was the host of Westwood One's off the Record, 250 syndicated stations, right next to Howard Stern. I had that position. Look, wait a second. How did you do all of that and infomercials and all this? I'm hungry. I just. I think it helps if you have a core value. Do you have a core value in your heart that you live by? What might that be? Great question. What's your core value, do you think?

[Jack]

The biggest one that I have tried to embody from mentors that I've had is integrity.

[Forbes Riley]

Love that you had kick ass mentors, Josh.

[Josh]

Honestly, the same thing. I won't do business with people I don't like and don't trust.

[Forbes Riley]

I got it.

[James]

God.

[Forbes Riley]

First love that mine was, I wanted to matter. When I was little, I didn't matter to anybody. And I kept saying this over. I just want to matter. I want to. I want to. I just want to matter. And not even I want to make a difference. I want to matter. We're kind of a little bit selfish. And so I kept putting myself out there going, I just want to matter. And it didn't. Here's another job I had. You know what the Laugh Factory is in Los Angeles? The largest comedy club. Jamie Masada. How about I was the host of that for three years. Wait a second, you did that? And espn and on a dog game show. And body by Jake. And. And, and I'm going to fast forward though, because the coolest part of my life is now. And I want all of you guys to hear this one. After 9 11, both of my parents, they passed away right before that. They were both 70 years old. And I know you guys love your family. I will tell you, there comes a time when everything that you wanted shattered. When I lost them and I looked at my then husband, I said, you know, I want to have a baby. Otherwise I don't matter. There is no reason to be here. And I was very blessed having twins. And I spent a good amount of time raising them and doing all of these fun philosophies and just having the most amazing time with this boy and girl twin, right? They got to a certain age about 17, Covid hit and they decided we did Covid in my house here and my daughter, because I didn't have a whole lot of friends, which, by the way, if you look at it, life happens for you, not to you. I had the coolest kids. I wanted to be around them. And my daughter, from the time she was 8 years old, would come with me everywhere I went. She'd sit at HSN with me. She'd go on trips, she negotiated deals. Louie sitting there playing games with me. And she comes downstairs at 17 and said, mom, what are you doing? And for the first time in my life, I looked at her and said, nothing. There's nothing to do. My beautiful now husband had been in a horrible motorcycle accident. He was in recovery. It was terrible. The world had shut down and I had no idea what to do. For the first time in my life, all of those things that I wanted ended. And you want to talk about God in the universe? She came downstairs and she said these ridiculous words. It's like, mom, let's start a company. And I'm like, no, you're 17. What do you know about starting a company? I hope you get a good grade in English. And she looked at me and said, you know, mom, you know, I've been doing this Internet thing and been coding and I meet all of your friends. Like, she met and hung out with you. She had a. I didn't realize what she was doing way over there, but people like Joe Theisman and Les Brown, she become friends with them and started building out their network. She was doing their YouTube channel, she was doing their websites. And she shows me her bank account and I'm like, where did you get that money? She's like, mom, I've been working for your friends. You're the only one who doesn't believe in me. And I'm like, okay. And she literally said, I'm gonna make us a million dollars in a year if you let me. And I don't know many 17 year olds who would ever say that to their mother. But we set out to do this new landscape, this digital world and webinars and teaching. And she's. Let's put. Let's memorialize what you do. Which is the precursor to this book. I've now taught over a hundred thousand people how to pitch through all these training programs. But we sat in a room for three weeks and I said, what am I supposed to. What am I supposed to be teaching? She said, mom, that pitch thing that you do, you're so good at it. You're so fast. People are mesmerized by you. I'm like, I can't teach this. I'm just really good at it, right? Can you teach someone to host a podcast?

[James]

No.

[Forbes Riley]

Well, see, you probably could if I sat down and looked at all your shows. Hey, excuse me, sir. You have a system, you have a hook, and if we analyze it, I bet there's a way you could teach that for sure. So she showed me what I had been doing all of these years through all of those Infomercials embodied by Jake episodes. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. We put it together, we put 25 people in a room and in a Zoom room, because Zoom had just come out and I pitched them. Well, I'm a really good pitcher, right? And I have a great product that I love. I sold it for $1,000. Well, I had been doing over and over again, I've been building funnels. Like, I thought funnels were cute. I never launched them because I didn't understand all the technology. And so we launched that one night. It was on a Sunday night. The next morning, I look at the account. There had been zero in the account for three years, and I'd been paying every month on this account. And I said to McKenna, what does the K stand for in the Account. What do you mean? I said, well, it says 25K. It's like, mom, you sold 100% of the room last night. You have $25,000 in your account that you didn't have yesterday. And I'm like, do this again. And we did. We did it for four weeks. 25 people, 25. You know what that adds up to in one month? A six figure business. We had a hundred thousand dollars. And I'm like, oh my gosh, nine months later, we're walking across the stage getting a 2 comma club million dollar funnel award. That was six years ago this month. And it has grown over and over again. And I took everything that I'd learned and now at this point in my life, realize why I went through all those things, why I did all those things. Why qualify to be on your show? Why qualify for you to listen, to say, wait a second, if she can do it? Because the truth is my birthday is coming up April 25th. I'm going to be 66 years old. Which is a number that if you add up all of your years, it pretty much adds up to 66, right? Something like that. It's very strange because I still feel like I'm a 22 year old kid, like I want to go hang out with you guys and go, you know, go shoot some pool. But age does catch up with you. And she said, the reason we're doing this for you is its legacy, which is a very different point in my life. You'll get there 40 years from now and you'll go, man, that forms. Riley said I needed to create a legacy. What's that going to be for the next generation? So it's interesting to talk to you guys at this level, but a lot of my students, a lot of people who are attracted to me are a little bit older and they're wondering. I have three women who are in their late 80s, who are in my world, who are making money online, who never thought they could, who are living a life they never thought they could, they dreamed of. So all the things that I've been through, good, bad and indifferent, I think is added up to this moment.

[Jack]

Forbes, you've met a ton of incredible people over your career, but one career that you helped launch, I think people would be amazed to know you helped launch Kim Kardashian's career on tv.

[Forbes Riley]

Oh, guys, it's in the book. You know, one of the fun things about this book, it's when it gets printed for real, it's gonna be in color and there's lots and lots of photographs in here. And if you heard the people's names, let's see some Wolfgang Puck. You know Wolfgang Puck? Yeah, you've eaten Serena Williams, Tony Horton. Tony Little Richard Simmons, Montel Williams, Mario Lope, and Ms. Kim Kardashian. So I was doing an infomercial with her dad, Bruce Jenner, at the time, and it was a big vitamin show. And he said to me, why don't you come home and meet the family? Kris is absolutely spectacular. Remember, this is about eight months before Keeping up with the Kardashians launch. So about 17 years ago. And I met all the girls, by the way, I wish I'd taken. See, we weren't really big on cameras back then, but we're all jumping on a bed with a little teeny Kylie and a little teeny Kendall going, had I known? And Kim was the most adorable person. She's sweet and humble. And I was doing an infomercial for a steam iron with Kevin Harrington, and I said she would be great to do this. She had never been on television. She was Paris Hilton's best friend. She was a closet organizer, by the way. I had the best looking closet because she's got the girls got taste and gave her the show. And she was great. And we were in a convertible. We're driving here in Florida, and she turns to me and she said, we just got a show with Ryan Seacrest. They're going to do a reality show in our family. And I'm like, like, oh, hope that works out for you. And then I watched the first season and I remember being a little sad because the first season they were all fighting. They showed they've gotten so much better. But I'm like, wow, do you want the world to see that? All I know is it worked. I watched her evolve from a beautiful young girl into this unbelievable woman. And I also defended her because people say, oh, she doesn't. Why is she famous? She's famous for doing nothing. I said, no, she's famous for being glamorous, for having style more than any other actress I've ever seen. And however she left the house, she looked amazing. And what Chris has done with the whole family, that is a master class in marketing.

[James]

Forbes, we'd like to end these podcasts off with two questions for our guests. I'm going to start and then Jack will wrap us up right here. But, Forbes, if me and you died tomorrow and you could leave one more message, but it will not happen. But if we could leave one more message with the Younger generation, What would that be?

[Forbes Riley]

That nobody defines you but you is that people will try to tell you who you are. And you have got to find not only in yourself, but you got to surround yourself. I watched this happen to my daughter. I'm going to start to cry. She sat down with her Grandma. She was 16 years old, and I already knew how special she was and how she was going to do business. And she said, her grandma's like, you should go work in a clothing store like your cousin. 16 Now, a really good future. She said, no, no, no, I'm not going to do that. I'm going to own the store. And she's like, honey. And then she said, I don't want to go to college. And all of her relatives said, you're going to end up broke and homeless, and that's a terrible thing to do. I watched how she believed in her and I watched me believing in her. And that's what you need. Believe in you and find one advocate. You don't need the whole world just yet, but somebody who you can cry with, laugh with, who believes in you and says you keep going no matter what.

[Jack]

And Forbes, the pitch queen. If you were to pitch how you want to be remembered, how would that be.

[Forbes Riley]

That funny? I don't think I'm leaving, just so you know. I would like to be remembered as a little girl who had it really tough and chose to survive and thrive, give to others and change lives. I get thank yous every day on Facebook that the ability to pitch has changed somebody's life. Given them the money, they never thought they could have the freedom, they never thought the closeness, business of their family. And I love that. And I think it's crazy that the whole word pitch, you know, I'm owning that word. It's mine. You can't have it, but if you use it right, it will absolutely up level your life.

[James]

I love that beautiful ending ending to an incredible podcast, fellas. This was a master class.

[Josh]

It was a master class.

[Forbes Riley]

This was.

[James]

This is probably the most dynamic podcast we've done, and it was one of my favorites that I've ever done. So thank you so much. We appreciate you. For us, this is amazing. And for everybody watching right now, guys, be sure to like and subscribe for amazing content and amazing guests that we have coming every week to the Hard Knocks podcast. We're going to put the link down in the description so that you can follow along with Forbes on social media as well as get the link to the new book that's coming out so pitch secrets A to Z.

[Forbes Riley]

Yes. And you know I'll give you one more link guys if you ever want to what we're doing. I love to give away things free. Sure, just go to free gift from Forbes. There's always something there that's wonderful that would excite and uplift who you are. Free gift from Forbes.

[James]

And lastly guys, do not forget but if you go down to the link in the description of this video, you can get access to the number one most powerful entrepreneur, community and network in the entire world called the School of Mentors. Where every single week guys we host live calls with the eight, nine and ten figure entrepreneurs that we interview on the School of Hard Knocks that you get access to. You get to ask your questions to these eight, nine and ten figure founders and entrepreneurs. So if you want access to them, join the School of Mentors in the link below. We can't wait to see you on the inside. And with that being said, we'll see in the next episode.