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School of Hard Knocks Podcast
Greg Perlman | The Real Estate Billionaire Who Built a $2.5B Empire and Chose to Give 75% Of It Away
01:01:51
Greg Perlman is one of America’s most successful and generous real estate investors. Founder of multiple ventures and one of the largest affordable housing portfolios in the U.S., he built a $2.5 billion empire with over 25,000 apartments nationwide....
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- [00:00]
James
How many apartment complexes do you own?
- [00:02]
Greg Perlman
Over 25,000.
- [00:02]
James
And you've amassed an incredible portfolio. I think $2.5 billion worth of real estate at one point in time.
- [00:07]
Greg Perlman
Yeah. Higher, but yeah, I mean, you know, those real estate values keep going up, so it's always hard to tell. I don't even want any more money. I mean, I do because I'm giving it away this year. I'm on track to probably give $30 million away.
- [00:17]
James
When did you first learn and realize that you could get rich off real estate?
- [00:21]
Greg Perlman
I love the idea of getting these monthly checks.
- [00:23]
James
You fell in love with the cash flow.
- [00:24]
Greg Perlman
I mean, yeah, that's just the most beautiful thing. You built your wealth through, through Section 8 housing.
- [00:29]
James
Why did you decide to go all.
- [00:30]
Greg Perlman
In on section 8? If you read the book on section 8, it's close to 500 pages of rules and regulations. It was a program that most people couldn't understand. But then I kind of discovered that one of the best parts of Section eight is that. And so I focused a lot on.
- [00:44]
Jack or Josh
There's a lot of entrepreneurs and business professionals that watch this podcast that probably run themselves into the ground trying to build a great company. What's your perspective on that?
- [00:50]
Greg Perlman
I could count the amount of times on two hands I was in the office past six o'.
- [00:54]
James
Clock.
- [00:54]
Greg Perlman
It wasn't to me, the most important thing.
- [00:56]
James
Greg, if me and you died tomorrow and you had one more guiding principle to leave with the younger generation generation, what would that be? What's going on, everyone? And welcome back to the School of Hard Knocks podcast. I'm James and I'm here with Jack and Josh. And we have an incredible guest for you all out here in Los Angeles, California. We are joined with one of the most successful and prominent real estate investors in the entire country, Greg Perlman. Greg has amassed a portfolio of. How many apartment complexes do you own?
- [01:29]
Greg Perlman
Well, at one point, over 250.
- [01:30]
James
250 complexes, complexes. How many units?
- [01:33]
Greg Perlman
Over 25,000.
- [01:34]
James
Over 25,000 units. And you've amassed an incredible portfolio. I think $2.5 billion worth of real estate. At one point in time.
- [01:42]
Greg Perlman
Yeah. Higher, but yeah, I mean, you know, this. Real estate values keep going up, so it's always hard to tell. You never know. It's like the stock market.
- [01:49]
James
And you recently had an exit as well?
- [01:50]
Greg Perlman
I did.
- [01:51]
James
For how much did you exit for?
- [01:53]
Greg Perlman
I sold about half the portfolio at the time, so it was about little over 1.2 billion.
- [01:58]
James
That is absolutely incredible. Well, we're going to be diving into Real estate today. But you also have one of the most incredible philosophies on money that I've ever heard. I think you and your wife have something where you're going to be giving away 75% of the wealth that you've amassed when it's all said and done. Is that true?
- [02:13]
Greg Perlman
Yeah. And it's probably going to be more because as the wealth continues to grow, but our kids are set. So, yeah, our goal is to give it away and to do it in our lifetime so we can enjoy it because it's so fun for us. But. But we're absolutely on that path right now.
- [02:28]
James
Well, we're going to be diving into that today. But I first want to get started off by asking you, when did you first learn and realize that you could get rich off real estate?
- [02:36]
Greg Perlman
There was a little bit of blood in the family. My grandfather had owned some properties, and my grandmother had given me and my two sisters a piece of a property that brought a check in. That was what we got to live on in college.
- [02:49]
James
What type of property was it?
- [02:50]
Greg Perlman
It was a retail property here in la. Still own it, actually. And so I think at the time it was like, call it $400 a month. So that was my living, plus whatever I made during at work. And so I love the idea of getting these monthly checks. So that was.
- [03:06]
James
You fell in love with the cash flow?
- [03:07]
Greg Perlman
I mean. Yeah, that's just the most beautiful thing. I mean, to get a check like that every single month. I mean, you know, it's like other business, you know, in the world. You got to work for your money, you know, and here you own a building and the money comes in. Now, it's not always perfect. The tenants don't pay and things happen. But, yeah, when that check comes in, it's kind of a great way to live. So I determined right after college that I want to get into real estate.
- [03:31]
James
But you went to law school.
- [03:32]
Greg Perlman
No, I did not. No, No. I went to Boston University, graduated undergraduate business school.
- [03:38]
James
That's amazing.
- [03:38]
Greg Perlman
Yeah.
- [03:39]
James
And. Go ahead, Josh.
- [03:40]
Greg Perlman
I was gonna say. So what do those next steps look like? You decided, okay, I want to go all in on this real estate venture. But what did those first steps look like after college? Did you get a job to fund it?
- [03:48]
James
Did you go right into wholesaling of some sort?
- [03:51]
Greg Perlman
How did you kind of get that capital to dive right in? I. I was fortunate enough. I met a. I met a guy who was a real estate guy who's a broker in la, and he wanted to start developing real Estate. And he just kind of felt I went in there and kind of sold myself because I just had studied real estate a little bit and also. But studied it from a hard knock, talking, you know, to family members. How does it work? So I went in and said, look, I think I can develop some real estate if you'll back me. So we went in, I went to work for my ding, draw a salary, actually found a piece of land, built a 26 unit building in Hollywood. That was my first venture. He actually bought the building from me. So I made money on that and along the way, just started meeting some other people. Had this one guy who got behind me and said, hey, why don't you come for me? I'll back you. And I've got way more money than the other broker I was working for. So I got involved in just acquiring real estate. And at that time, when I was younger, I was buying and selling, you know, because that big chunk of money, I didn't have any money. So that was what I lived on. So I think when I made my first hundred thousand dollars was about two years out of college in 1989, when I got bought out of that building. And that was just a giant amount of money. So I was like, okay, this is cool. But, you know, one of the things I talk about in real estate, it's really hard to get here. It probably pertains to a lot of businesses. What happened is, is that I started acquiring some real estate and it was in the affordable housing space, and I started making good cash flow from it. And I was able to get cash flow and build that up enough to what I call the crossover point. This is a big time, this is a big point. The crossover point is when you have enough cash flow coming in every month that it covers your monthly nut. Now, at that time, I had a little bigger nut. I had two kids. I got married young, so I had a wife and two kids. But whatever that number was, let's say back then, I think it was about 6,000amonth, 7,000amonth just to pay my mortgage, house, cars, this, that. Now you kind of can really go all in, right? Because it's covered. I don't have to sell real estate. I don't have to buy and sell real estate. I can actually own it. I can hold it for the long term. And if you see any of the people in the world in real estate, you guys interview a lot of them. The way to build wealth is to own real estate and hold it, not to buy and sell.
- [06:16]
Jack or Josh
So you have a multibillion dollar portfolio of real estate today. What does the breakdown of that portfolio look like? How much of it? Because you mentioned affordable housing was like mainly what you're going after, what is kind of like the breakdown of the portfolio today.
- [06:30]
Greg Perlman
So after, you know, now I'm, Now I'm at 8,000, I'd call it 8,000 units because I sold off a significant amount of units over the, all the way up until March 2022. And so it's probably about 50, 50 with regular market rate apartments and affordable housing units. And along the way though, I would say up until 2019, it was probably 90% affordable housing and 10% market rate units. So I liked the affordable housing. It was a very esoteric area. When you're dealing with the government, there's so many rules and regulations and it scared off a lot of people and, and it allowed me to use my brain to kind of figure out the nooks and crannies of how to operate within their guidelines. And as long as you operate very tightly in their guidelines, they can be a good partner. The minute you get outside the guidelines, they can come down on you like with the wrath of God. So a lot of people don't like that. And I liked it. And there weren't a lot of people playing in that space in the late 90s at all. And the space got discovered, I call it about mid-2010, 2012, everybody started jumping into affordable housing. And by the time I sold my, you know, I sold two chunks of portfolio. But the big transaction, 22, you had Blackstone in it, Starwood, all the biggest REITs, everybody wanted to be in affordable. And I figured this is a time maybe to hit an exit button.
- [07:58]
James
When did you graduate college?
- [07:59]
Greg Perlman
87.
- [08:00]
James
87. We were having this conversation before we started the podcast that the 80s were, was like the era, it was like the flashiest era where everybody was set on. They wanted to make a bunch of money, to go buy cars, to go buy what we call like liabilities in today's world. What kept you so focused on wanting to kind of accumulate this wealth for years and years to come as opposed to falling into those temptations, falling into that distraction. Could you kind of talk about your mindset? You're coming out of school, you have, I'm sure a lot of people around you that are wanting the flashy things, they're wanting that, that instant gratification. How did you avoid that?
- [08:33]
Greg Perlman
What makes you think I didn't? I mean, this is, come on. This was the, this was the Motivating factor in the 80s. I mean, it was. It was a. It was kind of a straight path, right? First you make, you know, you make money, you get a nice car, especially in la, right? And I was in Boston when I went to school. But, you know, I was from la, came back to la, you're driving a Porsche around automatic entrance into getting girls. I mean, that's kind of what it's all about, right? Then you get a nice apartment, then you get nice clothes, then you get fancy watches. You get all these different things and all the trappings of a good life. This is what we wanted. So I was wanting to build wealth originally as a young person because I wanted those trappings. Now, it so happened that I met a girl in college my senior year who's still currently my wife. So the big pot of gold at the end of having all this trapping was the girls. But that was kind of eliminated. But I still wanted the trappings. I still wanted to kind of be the man and look good and feel good and, you know, and have all those material things. So that's. That was. That was kind of still the main driver of wanting to be wealthy. Alongside of now I got two kids, I have a wife, and, you know, and I wanted to kind of like, you know, provide for them. At the same time, you know, what happened for me, what I will say is that real estate is slow moving. You know, you don't. I mean, there's times that you can buy and sell real estate, but most of wealth in real estate is created over decades. And if you can hold onto that real estate for decades, you can see some real appreciation and real building of your wealth. The slowness of it is also a good thing for you. You know, people who, like, start a tech company and sell it, you know, a year later, and they're young and they're 25 for a billion dollars. I'm like, whoa, how do you ever grasp that? Right? But for me, it's like every day was a. Was a scratch and a claw, and my wealth was. Was building the way grass grows, you know what I'm saying? And all of a sudden, I've got weeds going, you know, up the side of the house. But every single day, you don't see it. And so that is a really good way to kind of keep yourself grounded. And then as I started getting more trappings in life, I started realizing that, well, wait a second, now I have everything. And so what are the next steps? And so it took a while for me to get over that. Not a crazy amount of time, but it takes you a period of time. And when you're buying things slowly and accumulating. I accumulated. I have a much nicer house. I have a second home on the beach. I have a home in the mountains. I started acquiring things like that. And. And then you kind of have everything. So now the question is, now what?
- [11:24]
Jack or Josh
This year, the three of us, we invested into our first real estate deal. And if you were to be able to go back and have a conversation with your younger self when you were first starting, or even just today, looking at today's market, in the real estate market, what would you say to that person that's diving in trying to do their first real estate deal? What would be the advice that you would give to them?
- [11:42]
Greg Perlman
Patience. You know, it's going to be, you know, unfortunately, guys, and it goes for all businesses. There was that word that they have in the stock market. It's called, it's perfect. And I learned that in college, meaning if Jerome Powell says something, by the time the word comes out, the stock market has moved. There's no hidden anything. Back when the stock market started in the 1900s, literally it would take a horse coming to California to tell people what was going on. The same thing's happening in real estate. It's very, very hard to find deals because there's so much information. Every broker knows every building. I get phone call on my cell phone like 25 times a day. So everybody has every piece of information. When I started in real estate, if I wanted to find out the owner of a building, I'd have to go downtown to the halls, which I did. I'd have to find these microfiche, look up the address, and somehow get an owner. And if I called an owner to try and buy a building, I'd be like, yeah, come over for coffee. How are you? Like, you never got a phone call before. So it's. It's hard. But you gotta, you know, you gotta find a niche. You got to find an area you believe in. And, you know, that happened with me with Venice beach, you know, back in the late 90s. And I believed in this area, that this area had to turn. And, you know, I was able to be patient because it doesn't happen overnight. And you'll have investors sometimes who aren't patient. You know, a lot of these private equity guys, real estate funds, they have five, seven year life. These guys want to be in and out, so you got to perform. You know, My wealth was created huge over 20, 25 years. I couldn't be beholden to these short term things because things can happen too. Like right now, prices, values are going down. Y' all from Austin. I mean, prices on real estate apartment buildings in Austin are down 30% from their highs.
- [13:33]
James
What drives that for people that don't understand?
- [13:35]
Greg Perlman
Drives the Austin situation like just the.
- [13:37]
James
Markets, prices going down in general.
- [13:40]
Greg Perlman
I mean, you know, every market's unique. But Texas loves construction because Texas doesn't have any income taxes. All their money's made on property taxes. So they love new buildings.
- [13:49]
James
Can you explain that though? So when there's vacancies, it causes the rents to go down.
- [13:52]
Greg Perlman
Yeah, the more. Well there's. It's supply and demand. So the more units that come online than there are people to occupy them. Owners have to start reducing their rents to get them full. Owners in Austin, you guys are living there will say you guys probably live. I don't know if you're renting or owning, but your neighboring buildings are two months free rent, three months free rent, months free rent. They're giving away anything to get these things occupied. I mean, free rent is just basically a rent reduction. Right? If you sign a one year lease and you get two months free rent, that's a 16% reduction of the rent, whatever the face rent is. So if they're saying it's 2000, it's really down to about 1600.
- [14:30]
James
But isn't it crazy how that works though? Because you look at just a couple years ago, everybody saying go invest in Austin. And then now, like you said, the math isn't math in there in terms of with the vacancies, the rents going down. And it's not a place that you would invest in. So you've seen that I'm sure time and time again with these markets, it's just like they're hot one year and the next they're just complete opposite.
- [14:49]
Greg Perlman
Well, I always dealt in markets and things that were finite. Affordable housing is finite. When I was dealing with project based Section 8 housing, they created a certain amount of units back in the 70s and 80s and they haven't created new units in that program for over 40 years now. There was a finite amount of product. There was no new product. Certain markets, Manhattan, Louisiana, San Francisco, certain places, very hard to build, very hard to build in la. And LA gets a bad rap. And I get it sometimes there's things like rent control and other things that happen here in the politics, but from a supply and demand standpoint, it's very hard to build here. So there's not the Supply, straight out. Supply and demand. The Atlanta, Nashville, Austin, all the coolest places in the country that everyone talks about. Florida, easy to build, easy to create, supply. All the developers come in. We had free money for three years after Covid. Literally, interest rates were zero percent in the bank. So it was cheap money and easy to build. And that just led to an oversupply. Now it'll come back. It'll come back. You got to be patient. You know, at the end of the day, if you look now, there's no new stuff coming out of the ground in Atlanta. There's very little new stuff starting in Austin because the deals don't pencil. The banks don't want to lend because they're seeing what's happening. And so eventually there'll be a supply issue and then rents will go up. And then when rents go up, all of a sudden people start building and then there'll be like, you know, then there'll be an oversupply. So it's. It ebbs and flows. When people talk about building wealth in real estate, people talk about buying single family homes, buying apartments, buying retail centers. But you built your wealth through Section 8 housing. Why did you decide to go all in on Section 8? Because again, it was a program that most people couldn't understand. In the late 90s, it was so highly regulated, there weren't a lot of opportunities to make money in it. It was like, if you read the book on Section 8, it's close to 500 pages of rules and regulations. And I'd been around that space in some way, shape or form for quite some time. And so I really decided that this was a place to go all in on. I figured that there was a place that you could make money as long as you didn't mind dealing with the rules and regulations. You had people who were some tough tenant mixes. But then I kind of discovered that one of the best parts of section 8 was, is the elderly population. And these are generally older women because women outlive men. Let's get ready for that too. And we. You're basically having women, older women living on fixed incomes where Social Security is their only income. So it's a very, very special class of people. The government's never going to cut their housing back. They have no other way of living anywhere. Without this housing, there's very little problems with, with the residents. And so I focused a lot on senior housing. And then since I had the money coming in, we did some great properties. We started putting movie theaters in our properties. We started giving them Social services, we had food services. I mean, all sorts of things. Because I wanted to kind of be a good landlord. And I started becoming. I'd hang out with my tenants. I'd go there and have. When I was in town, I'd have lunch with them, I'd have breakfast with them. And they were, like, so happy that I'd come in. They were just happy to have kind of anybody to talk to. And so, you know, I really took it to heart and was very focused on senior housing. Something that you. You mentioned is the fact that you know your tenants. You'd even have lunch and breakfast with them. How important is it to know your customer in order for you to actually scale your business? You know, it's a slippery slope, because sometimes when you get to know your tenants, all they do is complain to you. My toilet didn't work and my light was broken and everything else. So the tenant landlord relationship is a unique relationship. It's not your standard customer relationship like in the other businesses you might be thinking about. You know, I knew that I had the ability to step up and make sure that my buildings were gonna be operated great. So I didn't have. I wasn't scared to be with my residents, and I wasn't scared to sit there and have breakfast with them. I knew I was also providing such a unique product when we were doing it, Government would come in and see our buildings. Like, no one ever built a movie theater for the residents because they weren't paying me for that. They were giving me whatever the rent was. So I was like, no, we're going to do these things. Amazing. I want these things to look like hotels. The W. Brand had just come out, and a lot of my buildings look like W Brand hotels for my residents. And I still own a bunch of those buildings, and I love it. And so, because I knew I could step up, There's a lot of landlords who don't step up for their residence, and those are the ones that probably aren't going to have breakfast with them.
- [19:30]
James
Now, I'm going to have you mentor the three of us for a second right here.
- [19:33]
Greg Perlman
Okay?
- [19:33]
James
Okay. So Jack mentioned to you earlier that, you know, we went in on a big apartment complex in Texas this year. We've had a very profitable business the last one or two years. And we're looking to, you know, we like that real estate vehicle. We like what you can do with. From a tax standpoint, we like the long game. Right. Warren Buffett says get rich slow. And real estate is obviously one of those Best assets for that.
- [19:54]
Greg Perlman
Very slow.
- [19:55]
James
Yeah. But I want to ask, as we are starting to do more deals with people and we're trying to align ourselves with the best of the best, what are some of those red flags that you would look for instantly, and people putting deals together that would tell you to run the hell away from that person? What are those, you know, you've done deals with, I'm sure the best of the best, but there's also probably been some partnerships that you maybe have regret doing. What are those key red flags that tells us to run away from those people?
- [20:22]
Greg Perlman
You know, I did all my own deals without partners, but I brought investors in at different times. And I think it's really critical that you have big boys. And by big boys or girls, that means people who've been through it, that they've seen adversity. And I think that, you know, There was from 2000, so we had a horror. You know, I don't know how familiar guys are, but in 2008, nine, we had almost a Great Depression. Real estate values plummeted around the country everywhere.
- [20:50]
James
And how much real estate did you own at this point?
- [20:53]
Greg Perlman
I had probably 12, 13,000 units. I was pretty insulated because I was in the affordable housing business. So my section 8 rents were stable. There was people always looking at it.
- [21:03]
James
Because it's guaranteed checks, right? It's guaranteed, yeah.
- [21:05]
Greg Perlman
The rent comes in, the government pays a portion of the rent, and then the tenant pays a portion of their income towards rent, and the rents are set. So those buildings have waiting lists to get in. So I was actually pretty insulated. But everywhere people were going running for the hills starting in 2010, we were coming out of it from 2010, and interest rates were driven down by the Federal reserve starting in 2010 to all the way about 20, 22 or 3. I mean, I was kind of lucky that I chose 22 to get out. Was nothing but rent increases and lower interest rates. When Covid happened, interest rates went to zero. So we were just dealing with nothing but good news for owners. People had never faced adversity. You need to find people whether, you know, and then for me, being a. Being the operator, I needed investors that were big boys, which I got. And you need to find people that you're going to invest with that have seen tough markets, because anybody who's only seen things going up and interest rates going down, those people are up against it right now. And here we are in a market where rents are down. In Austin, some buildings are down 30%. Interest rates at one point were 3% on an apartment building today you're lucky to get anything under 5%. That's just a huge, huge change and a lot of guys haven't dealt with it.
- [22:30]
James
What was your relationship with risk? I say that because, you know, you think of like some of the top people on the Forbes list. There's a lot of the studies have said that a lot of them are willing to go into the negatives to really be successful. What was your perspective on relationship with taking risk managed?
- [22:47]
Greg Perlman
You know, I liked, you know, remember I talked about the crossover. I was never going to go risk the crossover money for everything. You know, it's kind of like what are you left with, you know, that you can risk to try and build wealth, you know, now I don't really need it. You know, I have a different attitude about money. My relationship with money is amazing and I'm super happy with it. Like, I don't need any more money. I really don't. I don't even want any more money. I mean, I do because I'm giving it away, but I'm not going to risk anything to make any more money because I can't spend the money I have in, you know, 20 lifetimes taking care of everybody, family, nieces, nephews, cousins, three generations down, everyone's taken care of.
- [23:29]
James
Great, great, great grandkids.
- [23:31]
Greg Perlman
Great, great, great, grand. Yes, literally. And you know what? So why am I going to take a risk? You know, some people I see out there are taking huge risks. Real estate guys I know who are worth on the, on the Forbes list you mentioned who are worth 5, 10 billion still signing personally on construction loans. I'm like, I can't imagine why. In their 80s, you know, saying there were $10 billion, they're in their 80s, they're signing personally on a loan. I mean, what is the point? What are you trying to do? They just can't help.
- [23:57]
Jack or Josh
It's just a game for them.
- [24:00]
Greg Perlman
It's a game, but, you know, it's a game of risk that I'm not, you know, I was not willing to take. I obviously took risk and I obviously. But I bet on myself. I bet on my properties. I was buying, I was buying properties. Amazing prices. I was so confident I would take every penny I had and put those in and I would do it all over again. But I didn't deem that to be risk because I was operating the properties. I knew the rules of the program and I knew that I was going to make money. Here they say that being rich is being able to take care of yourself and your family for this generation. But being wealthy is being able to take care of your family, your children's family, and for the generations to come. Yes, and you became a billionaire through real estate. But I'm sure not every deal that you did went great, went well. Could you tell us a story about maybe a deal that you did that went wrong and where you lost millions and what you kind of learned from that? Yep, we all have them. So here I am talking about the Section 8 stuff, but, you know, I'm still believing you start to drink your own Kool Aid. I'm a genius. I can do anything.
- [25:05]
James
So believe in the hype.
- [25:06]
Greg Perlman
You believe in your own hype. You know, you're hyping yourself. You know, it's you in the mirror and you're still like, you know, you're still lying to the mirror. And so I got involved in a project where I bought this defunct development out in one of the deserts of California. And there was a golf course and homes that were built, but then all the lots were vacant and the golf course was slowing down the places in bankruptcy. And I came in and I'm like, I'm going to turn this thing around. I'm going to build this. I was very and still am into wellness. I'm going to create this wellness resort. I'm going to make it like this world class golf. I'm going to sell lots, I'm going to, you know, build houses. I'm going to do all these amazing things there. And we went down the path and I signed personally on a lot of loans to make it happen. I believed in this project, I believed in myself. I got investor money in there. I put a lot of my own money that I was making from my other housing, leveraged it and put it into this project. And 2008, came, 2009 and crash. Second home market was the first to go because these were second homes, you know, for people who are retired and bam, they crashed. People at that time used to be able to buy a lot. Like let's say you were going to buy a lot to build a house in one of these developments. Florida was notorious for it. You could get 100% loan on a lot. You can't get anything loan on a lot. You get 100% loan. So you buy a lot for 300,000 and you just get a loan from the bank for 100% and it cost you whatever, six, seven, whatever, 20,000 a year to service it. So that's how people are buying My lots again, drinking my own Kool Aid, as if people believed in my project. They didn't believe in the project. They just wanted to buy lots because they wanted to flip them to make money. The bank that I had signed up, everything with went under like a lot of banks did then. And the new bank that came in, that was backed by the government, came after me like frigging Putin came after Ukraine. I mean, it was a horrible, horrible time, and I had to fight through that. I still had all my other real estate stuff going on, you know, that was all good, but this diversion into something totally different. Building golf courses and houses and all these sorts of things was just my ego. My ego got ahead of me, and it almost took me down. It almost took me down, and I fought through. I had so many little moves I made, I could probably write a book on it. I can't give you the one singular move. I mean, I would tell you the one thing I did, because this bank was a very popular bank in Southern California, and a lot of real estate investors were with them. And when the other bank took them over, everybody was getting hammered by the new bank out in North Carolina. I was unbelievably nice to them. Everybody else was wanting to sue them and tell them to screw themselves and lawyering up. And I gave them all the documentation they needed and everything. Everything. And the one guy was the head of Special Assets who was basically like the general to kill everybody. I remember one time he goes, you know, you're a good guy. I'm going to lay off you for a while. I got other guys to worry about. Just start working on getting me repaid, and I'll give you some time. So, you know, they talk about going in with honey. That helped me. And then I was able to get my feet under me and ultimately negotiate my way out of that mess. But it cost me $25 million out of my net worth at the time.
- [28:31]
James
What was your strategy for building relationships with banks? Because you look at, you go back to the 80s and the 90s. Banks kind of operate a lot differently then than they do now, especially kind of for our generation coming up, in the sense that back then you go into a bank, it was super easy to get a loan and get money. Whereas in today's world, right.
- [28:49]
Greg Perlman
In the 80s.
- [28:50]
James
And so kind of in today's world is, it's like, you know, the famous saying that a bank's only going to give you money when you don't need the money. Right. In other words, it's like they'll give it to you because it's proven you're going to like company like Apple. They're still borrowing money every quarter. But it's because it's, it's proven. How did you build your relationships with banks early on? And maybe some advice to people in today's world that are starting to trying to get access to that capital for their developments, their projects, their investment, whatever it may be.
- [29:15]
Greg Perlman
Yeah, I mean, look at, look, banks. I don't really trust banks because they've turned on me. They turned on me in the late 80s. They turned on everyone, not just me. They turned on everyone in 2008 and nine. Boom, they pulled the rug out. Most of them closed down. So they're kind of like your friend when everything's good, but when everything's bad, they're gone. And now you're dealing with new banks. So, you know, I wouldn't go all in on any one bank. You know, you have to have different relationships. You have to leverage what you can bring to the table. Like, let's say there's like, there are so many. Like, if I went to Citi, as big as I am, if I went to, you know, I don't want to disparage them. They're nice people. I actually know them. Citi or Wells or Bank of America, I'm kind of as big as you guys think I am. I'm a blip on their radar screen. Then there's a bank here that's about a $15 billion bank where all of a sudden I mean a lot to them. Like, I'm one of their biggest clients. I hold deposits there. I bring a lot of business to them. So they're really, really wanting my business. There are smaller banks that are like billion dollar banks out there and they're dying for my business. So you kind of have to spread it around. You have to figure out where you are in the ecosystem and what you can bring to the table. A lot of people, like, I just invested in this young entrepreneur who just really had no resources because that's a lot of the. On my giving side. And he just bought this paving company in Bakersfield, and I was kind of the main investor. I took a chance on him. You know, to me it's like, I hope it works, but it's not going to change my life. And he's just set on going to Chase. I'm like, you can't go to Chase. Chase is so big, you're going to be nothing. The teller will barely know you. Let me set you up with one of my small banks and they'll recognize you. And when you want to grow and buy another company, you'll be able to go to them and they'll know who you are. And he kind of fought me on it because everyone gets in their mind. Chase is so big and this and that. I'm like, look, you're never going to be, you know, caterpillar, like, give me a break. You're going to always be a small guy, a small businessman. So stay in your lane and find banks that appreciate you, where you have the ability to be important to them as they are to you.
- [31:16]
Jack or Josh
Before the podcast, there was some talk about Trump's book the Art of the Deal. And, you know, real estate in many businesses, there's a ton of negotiations going on every single day in your career. What would you say is the best negotiation advice that you could give out there?
- [31:33]
Greg Perlman
You know, first, control the first contract. You know what I'm saying? If you can control the first contract, so that means that you put the contract out. Let them make comments to you. That was kind of one of the best things I always had in house counsel. So I had a woman who worked for me, she was an assistant for me in 1993, went back to law school and she's been my main counsel ever since. So we would always fight because she could do it so fast as opposed to an outside law firm that takes forever and then it's on their terms. So I like controlling the contract process for me when I was a buyer. So this is kind of funny now that you guys are just making me think of things I didn't even think about. So when I was a buyer in early 2000, there was a big company called AIMCO and somehow they had been their REIT. They had bought all kinds of companies and they somehow ended up with all the section 8. They didn't even know what it was and they were selling it and they started selling it. I came in, there were other people trying to buy. There weren't a ton of people, but they had the most one sided contract you've ever seen. It basically said that they could just change their mind at the last second and not sell it to me. Now I knew that wasn't going to be their thing. They were a public company or whatever. So I remember we negotiated as hard as we could and my lawyer at the time wasn't the woman said, I will not let you sign this contract. You can't sign it. And I go, I'm signing it. I was Making an unbelievable deal on it. So I signed the contract and I did it. And I bought so many buildings from them. And I remember hearing from the guy who was the head of their Dispositions. It got back to me going, I like dealing with Perlman. He. He doesn't over negotiate with me. And he signs what we do, and he just goes and does what he says he's gonna do. He doesn't retrade. I built a great reputation of not retrading. Everybody in real estate, especially in this town, retrades. You know what a retrade is? A retrade is when you tell somebody you're gonna pay a million, and right before closing, you go. Or removing all your contingencies, you go, you know, this building doesn't work for me. I'll give you 900,000. When you're a seller, it's like a punch to the gut. So I made it a position to never retrade. I would go in, I'd say, if I'm buying it for that price, I didn't retrade. I built my reputation on that. Brokers would bring me deals, or they wouldn't bring other people deals because they would say, hey, this guy does not retrade. He always closes. He's always fair. And, you know, I kind of kept that reputation to this day. Now there's lots of people like that. And, you know, some people don't care about that reputation. Everybody just wants the highest price. But there's a great chance that you're going to get retraded. So I built my reputation on that. And that really allowed me to buy some of the best returning deals of my life because of that reputation.
- [34:11]
James
We talked about kind of the strategy to build a relationship with the banks. Are there any other just necessary relationships that you built in the cities that you were located? Right. Obviously, Section 8 is. I'm assuming there's got to be some sort of relationship with the government there.
- [34:26]
Greg Perlman
Correct.
- [34:27]
James
For that young person, starting out in whatever city that it may be, what are the necessary relationships that they need to build with the people in those cities?
- [34:33]
Greg Perlman
I mean, that's what I was talking about with the brokers, you know, with the people who control deals. They need to know that you're real. You need to know. They need to know that you're going to stand by your word that you're going to close. All broker wants to make a fee, so he needs to give the deal to the person who's going to close the deal. So if he gives you the deal and then you flake out. He's not going to give you any more deals. Right. If you give the deal to them and you retrade the seller, which maybe cancels the deal, or the seller is so pissed off that's going to ruin his reputation, he's not giving you more deals. So what you need to do is you really need to build relationships with the people who control the deals. In the city, if you control the deal, you can find the money. There's tons of money. It wasn't like that 30 years ago. There was no money. There was nothing but deals. In the 90s, the government took back all the banks or thousands and thousands and thousands of buildings for sale. Nobody could find money. Now there's nothing but money out there. But everyone's having difficulty finding the deals. So go find your deals.
- [35:30]
James
Most people spend their entire life trying to accumulate wealth, yet you've made the.
- [35:35]
Greg Perlman
Decision to give 75% and the majority of your wealth away. What was that conversation like to where you brought it to your family? Like, hey, I'm actually going to make this my mission to give away the majority of my wealth as well as what do you kind of look for and like what projects are you trying to give that money to? So that's an evolution like everything else. And as I said, as we started building wealth, we started doing a lot of giving in a lot of different places. We started something called the Always Up Foundation. Through that foundation, we gave over 600 scholarships to mostly first generation kids going to college and built personal relationships. And along the way my family was involved. The whole thing first is my wife and I were partners and everything. And then my kids participated in that foundation, participated in the activities. So giving was always part of it. And there was never like AN Aha moment. 75% could be more. I mean, the whole point is that the kids are going to be set and then the rest of the money is to be given away. And there's not a. And the talk about it is an absolute yes. I mean, my daughter works for me at the change reaction. The change reaction is what we started as the platform to give money to people here in Los Angeles. So having your daughter or your kids work for you is just amazing. You know, they call, you know the word Nepo babies. Yeah, yeah, I'm sure you guys heard of that one. A Nepo baby who works for you in your giving platform and working and helping you to give your money away is the best Nepo baby out there because you're teaching them and teaching her, in this case, about what the other world lives like, about what the entire world lives like and how separated you are and how all these people in this world who are fighting, many of whom weren't given a chance starting at birth, and others who are just fighting all sorts of odds, that we're here to help them, that we have the ability to go all in on this community across every category of people. We've got, you know, we've got people in hospitals right now, 12 hospitals, the biggest hospitals in the city, that we support them while they're dealing with life threatening illnesses, helping pay rents, helping mothers pay rent while they're there with their kids with cancer. We're helping women who are in domestic violence situations, we're helping foster kids who've aged out and have no families, are in college and have zero support system. We're helping veterans, we're helping elderly folks. It doesn't. We have an entire ecosystem here in LA of hardworking people. These are all working folks that we're able to stabilize with our funds here in la. And I'm having nothing but fun. I never say no. Not never. We're about a 99% yes rate. We've helped over 140,000 people so far. And it's just, you know, it just, it just changes your whole perspective on wealth. I would tell you, which most people don't know. My best friends and partner, my best friends don't even know my business partners who are also best friends. I brought in some younger business partners, which is a great move. One of the reasons I did the deal in 2022 is because I was having so much fulfillment and fun giving the money away that I needed to explode my liquidity to give it away.
- [38:52]
James
You mentioned you found that fulfillment. Was there a period of time when you were at the top of the world in your business? And I asked you this because I recently interviewed a very successful private equity VC gentleman who made hundreds of millions of dollars in that space. And you know, the focal point of the interview that we ended up getting to was he said that he was having a conversation with his wife that 80% of people that are worth more than $25 million are miserable.
- [39:18]
Jack or Josh
Right.
- [39:18]
James
Was there a. And, and I, and I asked him, I said, you know, after you made over $50 million in a year, how did you find fulfillment? And he goes, I shouldn't say. And I go, what do you mean? And he goes, putting it, putting a gun in your mouth, saying, I can't do this anymore. Did you ever have maybe not that extreme. But did you have a moment when you were immensely successful where you were like, there's got to be more than this, because otherwise you just keep on chasing more and more? Did you ever have a moment like that?
- [39:43]
Jack or Josh
No.
- [39:44]
Greg Perlman
And you know what? I. You know, when I talked about. Everything happened slowly, you know, my wealth built slowly. I even started acquiring things slowly. So, like I told you, I have a house on the beach, but before I bought the house, I rented for 8 years, same thing in the mountains, you know, before I bought that house, I rented there for 12 years. Or not. Maybe not quite 12 years. It's probably 10 years. But, you know, I did everything slowly along the way. So along the way, I never got over my skis. You know, I think, like, I'd be concerned for people and myself. I don't know how I'd been if I had made billions of dollars quickly and young. You know, as I was growing, my kids were growing, you know, my family was growing. It was really. And my giving was growing. And so I was. And if you guys knew me back then, I've been happy back then. I. I go out, I party, I travel the world. I have a great time. I have a great outlook on life. I love health and fitness. I like partying at night. I like it all. But the giving aspect was something to really keep you grounded. And when I gave the first big check that I gave, and that was before I was doing the direct giving, I gave a $100,000 check to an organization. The guy said to me something. And I remember I never talked to this guy again. But they came, he was working, called a development guy, and the development people raised money. And I'm like, I really love what you guys are doing. What's the appropriate amount? They were. It was a capital campaign for something building. They were building. And he goes, you know, somebody told me this, that if it's important to you, give, so it hurts. And so I remember at the time, I was building everything up, and it's probably 2002 or three. And, you know, I was accumulating wealth, but again, it's on paper because it's just real estate, but some cash. And I gave $100,000 check. I think my previous biggest gift ever was $5,000. But it was really important to me and the work they were doing in the city. And I felt great about it. First I got scared. Well, how am I going to do this? But I wasn't really scared because I was confident I could make money. But that indicated how important it is to me. And so along the way I continued to kind of make my giving hurt. You know, last year, well, this year I'm on track to probably give $30 million away because the wildfires here really broke my heart. And that's a whole different thing. So. But I'm ready to just continue on that path. I'm ready to make it hurt. There was almost a time I was going to do a big capital gift for an institution here. Give me an opportunity to name a children's hospital. Because we fund the families in that hospital more than anybody in the city. But I didn't want my name on anything. I don't like that.
- [42:31]
James
Why?
- [42:33]
Greg Perlman
I just feel like maybe at Children's Hospital, I'm okay. I feel like it's building your own brand when you put your name on something, basically telling everybody, look what I did.
- [42:44]
James
Which says a lot about the person that you are, though. I mean, some people may want to give, but they also want people to know and the fact that it's very selfless.
- [42:53]
Greg Perlman
They want to brand themselves as a philanthropist rather than be philanthropists. That's a financial transaction. And you know, we talked about it as a family and we were like ready to do it. And then we decided that it wasn't giving. It's amazing. This is going to sound like kind of BS in a way, but everything I do is it's heart based giving. Literally, it comes from the heart. And my heart can crack open on a lot of different things. And if it cracks open, there's no stopping my wallet, no stopping it, because I'm all in, because my heart broke open.
- [43:30]
James
You put the card on the table.
- [43:32]
Greg Perlman
It'S just, it's on there, it's cracked. When the fires came, it cracked open. We gave the first seeding gift to the Wildfire Fund that I started. And it's still one of the biggest individual gifts. And that's just the start where we've helped thousands of families with checks, thousands literally on the ground. I hired 11 additional people full time to be on the ground intaking people, elderly women that lost families who lost everything, have no resources, in churches with them, crying with them, praying with them, getting them housing, bought a thousand sets of furniture to furnish their new housing, bought so far over 80 cars for people, work trucks, tools, everything. This is what you do when your heart cracks. You know, I'll give you like a most random thing. My heart cracked when I read the story of this guy from no One Left behind, which he made, which a movie was made about it about the interpreters in Iraq and Afghanistan that we were leaving behind. And I was like, how the hell could that happen? These guys serve with our army. We gotta like get them over here. And when they were coming over, they were destitute. Even when they finally let him in through the visa thing, where we kind of turned our backs. And so I went all in. I was like, no. I furnished apartments for those guys. I got them housing, I got them cars. I still have. I've got a thousand car loans with 0% interest that these guys pay on, and they never missed a payment. I paid for 800 tickets for people to leave Kabul who are all working for our country because it got my heart. It's all heart based. That's the beauty when you have money. Because I don't need anything else. You. You know, since the day I closed that deal In March of 22, you know, I haven't bought anything. I didn't need anything and buy one material thing, not saying not anything. Bought a few mountain bikes, but, you know, minimal things. I buy another house and buy another car and buy a watch and buy anything.
- [45:21]
Jack or Josh
No jet, nothing like that.
- [45:23]
Greg Perlman
Nothing had that.
- [45:24]
James
But it's safe to say then the more money, it just amplified the person of who you were. Because there is this big notion in society that the top 1%, the richest people in the world are like evil. You know what I mean? But at the end of the day, it amplified you because that's kind of what you were at your core. And it kind of just made you want to do more of that.
- [45:46]
Greg Perlman
It's just, guys, if you ever came to my office, my sister made a board for me of thank you notes. Like 20 of them. Like this collage. I've gotten 30 to 40,000 thank you notes. Do you know how many people tell me that I got somebody who said, I'm now. You've actually planted a seed that I'm now rethinking my interest in God because I'd long ago forgotten up on him because of a gift that I gave of $2,500 or $2,000 to pay rent for somebody that every day you have. I don't know who you are. I can't believe a stranger would do this. But after the fires, you are the one that gave me hope. You've given me hope. You're an angel. You've restored my faith in humanity. This is what I get to do. This is what I get to do with my money. I get to lift up my neighbors. And these are just neighbors. These are working folks. Working people. Because that's what I was always focused on. I think from the Section 8 world, I saw a lot of people that didn't work.
- [46:45]
Jack or Josh
You were on the ground level with them.
- [46:46]
Greg Perlman
I was on the ground level, and they were not working and they were getting a lot of subsidies. What about the guy that makes fifth? Or the woman who's a single mom making $15 an hour and raising kids, doing everything we said you're supposed to do in this country. Try living on $15 an hour and raising a kid, and somehow they're doing it. Then her car breaks down. Boom. What's that going to lead to? A job loss. We have set up. I've got over 2,000 nonprofit workers, teachers, social workers. Everyone in the city knows that they can come to the change reaction to stand up for those people and fix their emergencies and make sure that they don't slide down, that they don't get evicted, that they don't lose jobs. And that's what we've done for the city. And that's why I am just bouncing off the walls about the fact that I get to do this. And that's why I wanted to liquefy my money in 2022. Was like, I want to go even bigger. And when the fires came, I was able to. Boom. Started off. We're already $22 million in. I'm now funding the gaps for all these poor folks that didn't have the amount of insurance to rebuild their houses. I started a new program that I'm giving them the gap so they can rebuild. I mean, it's just the crime. I go out there, I go to altitude. I show up for these people like the rest of my team. The crime you walk into a room, nobody wants to talk to anybody. When the change reaction, when my team walks into a room at a gala or anything, people don't care that this celebrity's there, that celebrity is there. They want to just come meet us. They can't believe that we're there because we showed up for them. Because we're the ones that cared about the people on the front lines. And that's what we get the power to do. And I don't know why more people don't do it and don't understand. This is the fun stuff.
- [48:32]
Jack or Josh
I was going to ask about that. So we interviewed another gentleman who's a billionaire, that his name's John Morgan, and he went on a show called, on a YouTube channel called Jubilee, where basically it was like 20 people get to, I guess Interrogate a billionaire first. That was kind of like the point of the show. And they were asking, they're like, hey, the concept of a billionaire, they have all this money. Why don't they just help every single person in the world? Why don't you just give money to everybody in the world? And I'm very curious to get your take on. Do you think that people that amass that amount of money should have an obligation? Like, do you think there's an obligation for them to turn around and give that back?
- [49:12]
Greg Perlman
I absolutely believe that, though the mandates of it are slippery slope because it's just like, mom, when your mom told you to do something, how'd you feel like, ah, I'm not doing it. It's gotta come from the heart, you know, Most giving is a financial transaction. Oh, I get my name on a building. Oh, I'm going to the gala. I'm being honored. Oh, I'm doing this. Oh, I'm going to buy a table. I. You'll see. You guys are making money. You're going to be hit up for stuff and you're going to do stuff because, hey, my friend started this thing. So I want to give 1,000 bucks, 5,000, whatever it is, but your heart's not going to be into it. And that's how most giving is done. And there's some philanthropists who are amazing. The most amazing philanthropist who's just beyond is Mackenzie Scott Bezos. Because when Jeff divorced her and left her with $40 billion, she's like, what am I going to do with all this? So she gives away billions of dollars a year to organizations all over the country. Kind of had the same attitude I did. You know, I think that you. I think you have to. I will tell you guys this, and I know my wife doesn't even like hearing it because she thinks I say it too much. But this isn't just me just trying to be humble. You know, people humble, brag. It's not that I am rich and wealthy because I'm lucky. Let's just face it, okay? I work hard, I'm smart. But if Those are the two things that qualified you to become wealthy, we'd have 25 million wealthy people in this country. And we don't. There's plenty of rich people, plenty of hard working, smart people out there, smarter than me, with better schools, all this sort of stuff. Work 50, 60, 70 hours a week. You get lucky. First off, I was lucky. How? I was born. I was born to a really good family. Raised me right, cared about me. Let me go to great colleges. Born healthy, born in this country. All these different factors right out of the gate. I was born on second or third base, you know? So let's just face it that I'm lucky. Do you really think when I bought my real estate in the 90s, I thought it'd be worth this right now? And any of these guys who do, just throw water on them, it's all B.S. it's all lucky. So when you start to really think like that, that, man, I was just blessed, then you maybe start to say, not that I don't deserve this, but it's like it's incumbent on me to do something more important from it. If you think that you just worked your ass off, you start to think, well, all these other people could do the same and the reason they're not rich is because they didn't work like I did. And that's how 90% of the wealthy people think. So you start to think about how lucky you were and how fortunate and how real estate you think. I thought when I started, interest rates were 9%. My rents are triple. I bought my buildings in Venice beach. My rents were $700 and now 4,000amonth. Do you think I ever thought that? And anybody who says they did is lying. Okay, interest rates were 8 to 10%. You ever think I could get 3% interest rates? I didn't even know how that could be possible. In the 80s they were 18%. So just get off your high horse, start recognizing your fortune in life and just lift up your neighbors. You have the ability to be freaking the most unbelievable human being. Don't do it. You know, just do it because it makes you. Because your heart is open. Just let the world know that you care. And if we get that way with the wealthy doing it, you know, at some point people are going to come for the wealthy. You heard about the guy who's like, maybe going to win in New York?
- [52:40]
James
Zohan?
- [52:41]
Greg Perlman
Yeah. I'm Donnie. What's he talking about? I want to take the money from the wealthy. It's like Robin Hood. I want to give people free childcare and free buses and whatever. And everyone's going crazy, right? Billionaires are going berserk. You wouldn't need a guy like that if the billionaires were stepping up. Already be like, hey, lay off our billionaires. They take care of us. They're already giving us this. But you naming some museum isn't going to help the guy who needs childcare. It's not going to do it. Show the Community, you care, and we have the power and it's fun. Guys, I'm not railing. I'm railing with a smile. I am having so much fun giving this money away. My team is having fun. I get to do it every single day. I get to lift somebody's life. I wake up and this is the easy part. This is what you guys can do. Give you the easy part to become givers. A lot of people go, I need to be Greg Perelman wealthy. How about you guys wake up every day and go, you know what? I'm going to look for the opportunity to help somebody today. Maybe that's guys cleaning the street. And you go shake his hand and go, hey, listen, I thank you for your work. Or maybe you give him a 20, you know, or maybe you hear about somebody in your circles and you go, you know what? I want to help that guy out. He just lost his job. You know what? I'm going to go help him pay his rent today. Whatever you can do. You guys just wake up. I want to help somebody today. Anyone can do that. You don't have to be my wealth to do that. And then you start laying that foundation. See how that makes you feel. Wow. Wow. That guy cried on my. I never saw my friend cry before. I did that. That's pretty powerful. Okay, I like that. I want to do more of that. Just do that. Everybody listening to this. Everyone in the world can have that mindset. I have that mindset times 100. And I have a team of people finding me opportunities of people to help.
- [54:31]
Jack or Josh
What was the Scout slogan? Do a good turn daily. We're all Eagle Scouts.
- [54:35]
Greg Perlman
Yeah.
- [54:35]
Jack or Josh
So we always.
- [54:36]
Greg Perlman
I got it. Those were great things. I was in the Boy Scouts, and I remember it was good stuff. And they taught us great things. And you know what the truth is, is that you can do it in a much more impactful way. You can. You know, you guys can be so effective and you don't realize it just takes. That takes that mindset. Bam.
- [54:59]
Jack or Josh
Yeah, we. We interviewed a health healthcare executive, and he. He brought up this concept to us about sharpening the saw. That basically to be a high performer, you have to sharpen the saw. And what he meant by that was, if you gave Abraham Lincoln five hours to cut down a cherry tree, he'd spend the first four sharpening the axe. And so for him, he said, like, for him, when I go play tennis, when I go sailing and do these things that aren't, like, super, like, clouding the mind with all this information, it helped him sharpen this all. And so before we started the podcast, we talked about, you know, you've made your work and your health equal importance for you. The amount of time you're competitive tennis player, you mountain bike religiously. I want you to break that down, like for entrepreneurs, because there's a lot of entrepreneurs and business professionals that watch this podcast that probably run themselves into the ground trying to build a great company. What's your perspective on that?
- [55:52]
Greg Perlman
As I said, I could count the amount of times on two hands I was in the office past six o'. Clock. It wasn't to me, the most important thing because, you know, I started recognizing this is the whole thing about wealth. I started realizing, look, I want to give money away. That's why I really wanted to become wealthy. I recognized that about 15, 20 years ago, but I kind of probably internally knew that too. I had this amazing wife. I have amazing kids that I'm so close with, one who worked with me. The other ones I know eventually will work with me. The two boys live in New York, daughter lives here, so she works with me. And you start recognizing what's important in life. And to kill yourself, to just grind yourself to the ground to your death, just to acquire things, to work that hard, to acquire bigger, this, better that for what wasn't that important to me. It's more important to me that I became better tennis player because on the weekends I played tournaments. So I was out of the office. Training, working out, hitting. At that time, that was the 90s. Same thing now. Riding, writing does a lot of different things for me. And I'm not really competing at it, but I love it. Nothing makes me happier. My endorphins are flying through the roof. I'm on such a high. I mean, why wouldn't you just want to do something that gives you a high now? You know, except for drugs giving you a high. But whatever gives you that high, whatever your high is. Mine happens to be athletics and fitness. Whatever your high is, go pursue that. Whatever it is, if it's writing poems or collecting stamps, I don't know, whatever the zillion things people have, you got to figure out what's giving you that high. And, you know, you just can't go all in on just making money. And I know there's people out there who are like, you gotta work hard, you gotta work hard. You gotta do this, you gotta do this. And I get it. There's no easy street. You can't just coast. But, you know, you have to get your priorities straight. You have to Figure out what is it all about. Okay. Thank God I got the North Star of Giving, because that actually started driving me to work harder, to take more risk even, and build this pot of wealth to give it away. That was actually the driving force behind me, because at that point, I had everything.
- [58:14]
James
Yeah. We like to end these podcasts off by asking two questions to our guests. And I'll start with mine and let Jack ask his. My one for you is, Greg, if me and you died tomorrow and you had one more guiding principle to lead with the younger generation, what would that be?
- [58:33]
Greg Perlman
You know, getting away from this thing being about wealth. You know, to me, balance, Please keep balance. I just don't think. I'm not. I don't love the overwork. I love the balance in life that people can get. And if you're driven to make money for good purposes, then go, go, go drive yourself for that. But if you're driven just so that you can buy bigger things and buy more stuff and put yourself in more, you know, you become a slave to those sort of things. When you get more wealth, you guys are going to see it. You're young, you're doing great. Start buying a bigger house, you start getting kids, you start putting them in private schools, you start doing all this stuff, you're now enslaved. Golden handcuffs. Maybe this isn't a job, but now there's people who make a million dollars a year and they're slaves to their jobs because they've created such a huge life. Don't do it. Create the balance. Figure out what's important. If you want to be a slave to making money, make sure it's to do good things, not just to do bigger things, not just to be the biggest guy on the block. Don't do it for ego. That's my number one thing. I feel like that's what I did, and that's why I walk around happy and smiling and fulfilled in life pretty much 99% of the day.
- [59:52]
Jack or Josh
And on the concept, if tomorrow was your last day, how would you want to be remembered?
- [60:00]
Greg Perlman
I'd like to be remembered as somebody who cared and somebody who showed up for people, because I've done that in many, many ways across the board. I'd like to be. And that, to me, is a bigger form, along with the money, of being generous. You know, when you're generous with time, you're generous with your energy, generous with mentoring, generous financially. So being generous with all those aspects, not just my money, which I've been generous, obviously, but the idea that I've showed up for people and been generous with my time and cared about them. That to me is where I've thought about at my funeral. I want to be remembered for showing up for people. People knew that I truly cared about them. I wasn't here just doing it for me. I care about these people. I meet them and I care about them and I just wrap my arms around them and then I'm able to help them financially. So that's what I want to be remembered for.
- [60:54]
Jack or Josh
I love it.
- [60:55]
James
Amazing answer and beautiful podcast brother. Guys, that's a wrap on today's episode with an absolute legend. Be sure to like and subscribe for amazing content we've got coming every week because we're bringing you guys the biggest business owners in the entire world. We're going to put the link down to Greg's socials and you know, programs down below so that way you guys can check out all the incredible work that he's doing. And guys, if you want direct access to the multi millionaires and the billionaires that we interview every single week, the three of us launched and built the number one entrepreneur community in the entire world where every week we host live calls with the 8, 9 and 10 figure entrepreneur where they mentor you directly and answer all of your questions to help you get started in building your first million dollar business. So we can't wait to see you on the inside. The link to become a member of the School of Mentors, the number one most powerful entrepreneur community network in the entire world is down in the description. We can't wait to see on the inside. With that being said, we'll see you in the next episode.