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School of Hard Knocks Podcast
Michael Franzese | He Made $10 Million a Week in the Mafia...Now He's Found Redemption
00:53:59
Michael Franzese is one of the most fascinating and legendary figures to ever walk away from the mob and live to tell the tale. As a former Capo for the Colombo crime family in New York, Michael was once making millions per week and was considered one...
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- [00:00]
A
What's going on, everybody? And welcome back to the School of Hard Knocks podcast. I'm James. I'm here with Jack and Josh, and we've got an incredible guest today, Michael Franzisi out of Newport beach in California. And, man, Michael, you've lived multiple lifetimes in one, from, you know, high up in the Mafia to becoming, you know, a criminal entrepreneur to inmate, to now a man focused on redemption, man of God, building multi million dollar businesses. Before we unpack all of that, I want to start here. If I were to meet you on the street in 1985 at the height of your mafia power, how would you have introduced yourself to me? And how would that differ from the man that's across me right now today?
- [00:43]
B
Well, I probably would have introduced myself the same way. Hi, I'm Michael Francis, and. But I was in a little bit of a different position, I would say, than I am now. You know, I like to think that I've been the same person, just have, you know, different way of doing things at this point, different mindset, but the same guy.
- [01:00]
C
And so tell us about some of those early days, like how did you get come up in the Mafia? I know your father was involved. What were some of those things that he taught you? And how. How did that whole process get started?
- [01:12]
B
Well, you know, originally I was. I had no intention to be part of that life. My dad was extremely high profile. He was kind of like the John Gotti of his day. So I grew up with my father constantly being arrested, constantly going on trial. And I hated the police, hated law enforcement, because I always looked at my dad as somebody being harassed. Our family, everything else. So he wanted me to go to school, he wanted me to be a doctor. And I was on that road. I was an athlete in school, and I was going to college. I was a pre med student at Hofstra University in Long Island. And my dad gets, after three former trials, he goes to trial a fourth time, gets convicted for masterminding a nationwide string of bank robbers, gets a 50 year prison sentence, longest sentence for that conspiracy ever given up to that point. And that was in 1967. In 1970, he goes off to prison to do his time. And I was a pre med student, Joe Colombo, who was the boss of the Colombo family. He was kind of a mentor of mine. I got very close to him when my dad went away. And I started hearing a lot of my dad's friends. Mike, what are you doing? Good going to school. If you don't help your father out, he's going to die in prison. And I love my dad. He was my hero. So I lose interest in school. I go see my dad in Leavenworth Penitentiary. Dad, I'm not going to school anymore. If I don't help you out, you're going to die in here. And he was a little bit upset because he really wanted me to be the first professional in the family. That's what he would say. But he also told me when I said to him, dad, bank robbery. It doesn't sound right. That's not who you are. And he said, son, I was framed on this case. I'm no bank robbery. He said, the government got me. He said, I'm innocent. And I believed him. My dad never lied to me. So I said, well, in that case, I got to help you. And he thought the best way to help him out was to become a member of his life. He said, if you're going to be on the street, I need you to do it the right way. And he thought the right way was to become a member. So it was at that point, he asked me a couple of questions, and he proposed me for membership into the life. Because you can't just come up to somebody and say, hey, I'd like to join. Somebody has to sponsor you, vouch for you, propose you. In my case, with my dad, that's how it started. I was 20 years old.
- [03:19]
D
And so you were inducted into the. Into the Mafia in 1975 on Halloween night.
- [03:24]
B
Right.
- [03:25]
D
What was that process like, and what emotions were you kind of feeling in that moment?
- [03:29]
B
Well, you know, it's a very serious process because they want you to know the seriousness of what you were getting involved in. And I worked for two and a half, three years to get to that point. You know, I was a recruit, and I had to do whatever I was told to do to prove myself worthy. And so the night that it happened, they don't tell you this in advance because it's a secret ceremony. So all of a sudden, one day, hey, you know, meet at such and such a place, wear a suit, but you hear that almost every day. And then I got the feeling that Halloween night, that this was the night. So it was myself and five other gentlemen, and it was late at night because we had to make sure the law enforcement wasn't following us. And it was in a catering hall in Brooklyn. Joe Colombo's son had a catering hall there. And we went into a room individually, and we had. It was set up like the boss of our family. We're sitting in, like, a horseshoe Configuration. The two other official positions under Boss Consiglieri to his left and right, and all the Carpa regimes and captains were alongside of them. We had about 15 in our family. So I walked down the aisle, stood in front of the boss, held out my hand. He took a knife, cut my finger. Some blood dropped on the floor. This is a blood oath. I cupped my hands. He took a picture of a saint, the Catholic altar. God put it in my hands, lit it a flame. It didn't hurt. It burned quickly. It was merely symbolic. And he said, tonight, Michael Francis, you are born again into a new life, into Cosa Nostra. If you violate this oath, betray your brothers, and you're going to die and burn in hell like this saint is burning in your hands. Do you accept? Yes, I do. That's the oath. That's how it started for me. The other five guys went in, they all took the oath, and you come into the life. You come in as a soldier. That's the first official position, and that was it.
- [05:09]
A
Now, you became one of the most influential people in the Mafia at a very young age. And I think in today's world, you know, there's this concept where if you're a young guy in an industry, a lot of times, if people don't see enough gray in your hair, they don't necessarily have a lot of respect for you. Now, you having that much influence as a young guy, what were some things that you did to kind of establish your credibility and build that respect from your peers all around you, from some of the elder people? So, like, despite having some of the family ties, from some of the people that were in the Mafia, how did you build that credibility and respect, get the respect of those older people at a young age? You know, being very young, with a lot of influence, you know, it's a.
- [05:48]
B
Very good question, very good point, because the younger guys always have a lot of a resentment. And in that life, it's intensified because you had guys in there that were made guys, and that's the term for 25, 30 years. And all of a sudden, here's this young guy coming in, you're going to tell me what to do. Even though when you take that oath, you're all equal, you're told that no matter who's older, younger, you're all on equal terms. So there was a lot of resentment, especially when you're successful. So I figured out at a young age, look, I have to make these guys understand that even though we're on the same level, I give them A little bit more respect. So I was always very diplomatic with them as best as I could be, unless they crossed the line where I had to say, hey, enough is enough. But I always made them feel that I was giving them more respect than I could have, let's put it that way. And that kind of endeared them to me. So I learned that early on. You know, you gotta learn how to read the room, so to speak, when you're involved in anything, and especially in that life, because the consequences of not knowing that can be pretty severe. So, but that was it. I gave them a lot more respect. You know, I can give you so many examples of that. You know, could you give us, you know, this is intense, but you asked for it, I'll give it to you. You know, I was a captain in the family and at that time I had a lot of soldiers under me. Well, they were always getting in trouble for some reason or other, right? So this one guy, a Jewish guy who was, he made some very disparaging remarks about another maid guy from another family. And he made them to the guy's brother in law. And the guy's brother in law went back and told him, and you can never disrespect another maid guy. Can't do it. Even a maid guy can't respect another maid guy. It's wrong, right? So I have to go to this sit down, that's what we call it. And in this sit down, the guy was from another family, Genovese family. And he sat down and he said, do you have a guy by the name of Jerry Zimmerman, Jewish guy, around you? And I said, yeah, and he was 30 years older than me and he pounds on the table, he says, I want him dead. That's what happened. Now I knew what happened and it was all this disrespect thing, right? Well, this argument went on for three hours because he said, I'm gonna kill your guy. I said, well, now I gotta kill your guy. I said, because your guy is lying. I was lying because I knew that my guy was disrespectful, but I can't give him up because I'll put him in a lot of trouble. So this went back and forth for three hours. He said, well, I was winning a little bit. He says, well, I'm put your guy in a hospital, that's this life. I, I said, well, I'm going to have to put your guy in a hospital bed right next to him. I said, you know, if you're going to do the one we're going to do it the same way. Finally, I saw I was getting nowhere with this guy. And the only solution would have to bring it up to the boss, his boss, and my boss. And I didn't want that to happen because you never know when you get to that level. So I started to say, look, I know what's going on here. Here's the deal. I have a lot of respect for you. It was over a car, believe it or not, where I had a car dealership. And the guy came back and said, this car was a lemon. And my guy was yelling at him. It was back and forth, stupid. So I said, I'm going to give you a guy, a new car on me. I says, go back, tell him what you won. You know, you got it. I said, and you can tell him you defeated me in the argument. You got the upper hand, and you got him a new car. That should satisfy him. Well, that kind of rang a bell with him, and he said, okay, that's how we resolved it. But there again, I gave in to his age. Even though he wasn't my superior, we were on equal ground. And I kind of knew at one point in time that that was the only way that this was going to get resolved, if I catered to him a little bit. So it cost me a car in the long run, wasn't a big deal. So I did things like that to show people that, you know, I had respect for you, even though we're equal. You've been around here a lot longer than me. I get it.
- [09:35]
A
I had a quick second part to that question. I interviewed a gentleman a couple weeks ago. His name is Mark McLean. He's the CEO of a publicly traded software company. They do, like 700 million a year. And he brought up this concept to me about, like, reverse mentorship. And I know how. I had asked you about how at the time, you being a really young guy, you know, having a lot of influence, and now, you know, we were just having a conversation off camera about. How old are you now?
- [10:00]
B
I'll be 74 this year.
- [10:02]
A
No, you're not.
- [10:02]
B
I am.
- [10:03]
A
There's. There's no way.
- [10:05]
B
Yes.
- [10:05]
A
Are you. Are you serious?
- [10:06]
B
Serious?
- [10:07]
A
You look incredible.
- [10:08]
C
Yeah.
- [10:08]
A
50S.
- [10:09]
B
We don't.
- [10:10]
C
Let's still.
- [10:11]
B
Are you serious? I did.
- [10:13]
A
Okay, so.
- [10:14]
B
So.
- [10:14]
A
But we were having a conversation about how your entire team is, like, in their, like, mid-20s. They're young. I want to know your perspective on that reverse mentorship about how. And this is for anybody in any sort of business. You were on the diary of. Of a. CEO Stephen Bartlett's podcast. And we were with him in Austin the other day, and he was talking to us about how, you know, guys like Mr. Beast and the. The best people in the world, what they do is, is they have the tables of, like, the young guys who maybe they know that digital marketing, that social media, but then the older guys who've been at Paramount or Warner Bros. Or YouTube, executives of 20, 30 years. How imperative do you think it is to kind of have that instilled in you whether you're younger or older, but that reverse mentorship that we can really learn from people who may be significantly younger and significantly older?
- [11:01]
B
Oh, it's. It's critically important. I wouldn't be doing the things that I'm doing. It wasn't for the young guys that are into digital marketing, into all of this production that I have no interest in. I probably wouldn't do well in it. It's just not something that I knew I wouldn't be good at. So it's important I rely on them for our production, for even ideas, conceptually, what's our strategy in building our social media platforms and doing our marketing? So I rely on them and they rely on me for advice in certain ways. So it's a great mix. And I really, you know, in today's world, you know, with all the social media and all the Internet, you got to have young people around you because they. I don't know if you guys absorb it better than we do. You know, when I look at a computer, I just want to do what I do. I don't want to know how it works. I don't want to know how it originates. I don't want to know anything about that. I want to know that it works. When I have a problem, I call one of my kids, my younger kids, or I call my team, Hey, I got a problem. Fix it for me. Don't tell me how. Just fix it so I can work it. That's it. It's important. Really important. And, you know, look, we've had in my wine business, for example, my. My partner is 25 years old. The work he's done is absolutely incredible. In building this business over the past three years, has he made some mistakes? Yeah, and I've been able to correct those mistakes because of my experience. But it's a great mix and I wouldn't have it any other way.
- [12:26]
C
I believe I've heard you on a podcast, kind of break down in the mafia. You know, you have racketeers and you have gangsters and the racketeers are the ones that pretty much, they're the ones that kind of operate, do the business, bring in the money. How was that sort of development? How do you figure out who those people are that have those skills to do that? And how can somebody, you know, transferring kind of in today's world really shape themselves into being kind of that operator, that money maker? How did they develop the skills, especially as a young guy coming up in order to fulfill into that role? And how do they go into that route? Or would they find themselves as a gangster in the mafia? Kind of break that down for me?
- [12:58]
B
Well, you know, it's like I always say, do what you do best, delegate the rest. In the mob, you don't have to choose who's going to be that. They're going to present themselves either way, you're either going to be a racketeer or a gangster. And those people that in that life that don't know how to use the life to benefit them in business, they're just not going to make it, you know, if you try to strong on people and tough guy people and things like that. Because a lot of people think once they get that badge that everybody in the world has to give them respect and they're better than everybody else. It doesn't work. No matter who you think you are, you got to prove yourself in that regard by who you are, and you got to figure that out early. And most guys don't, you know, the gangsters, they do all the grunt work, you know, and I don't want to be demeaning to them, but it's true. Because they got to earn what they've been given, so they do that work. And they can't be the racketeers. They just don't know how. The racketeers, on the other hand, have to be gangsters also because they're gonna be called upon to do work. So you gotta know both, you know, but it's just a skill that comes out in you. You either have it or you don't. And people see that right away. And I think in the real world, it's the same way. You know, you either have it or you don't. Now you still have to work to improve yourself, but you either have it or you don't. I mean, that's how I've seen it. That's been my experience.
- [14:17]
C
And in the example that you were talking to James about, you were saying like, oh, if you come after my guy, I'll get your guy. And you're Having that sort of tense back and forth negotiation, especially if you're in sort of that racketeering role, you have to be a phenomenal negotiator, especially in this life. What are some of those tips that, like, if looking back on that life and what you've carried into business today, what are some of those things that maybe the average person doesn't know on how to negotiate in those tense, tough situations when people, their lives are on the line?
- [14:43]
B
Well, I can tell you this. And for the young people listening, I want them to understand, you know, there is a certain point that you don't. You could be submissive, if that's the right word, to a point. But then when somebody draws or goes over the line, then you have to exert yourself because you shouldn't be taken advantage of because of your age. If you're giving it up willingly to show a sign of respect, that's one thing. But don't take disrespect from somebody, you know, And I've learned that. So being one of the younger guys, I had to go to a point. But then, hey, enough, you know, don't forget now we're both equal here, you know, and even in life, we're both human beings. You treat me respectfully and I'll do the same with you. You cross that line, it's different, you know, but again, you know, in a negotiation, I think one of the most important, two of the most important things is, number one, be prepared. And being prepared is learning how to read the room and keep your composure. Keep your composure. Don't ever blow up. You blow up, you lose. You know, when you walk out of a room because nothing's worked, you hey, it's not going to work. I'll see you later, get up and leave. That's it. Can't come to him yet. We get it. I've done that so many times and they've called me back. You know, I'm not mad at you. This is negotiation. It's business, not personal. But not going to work here. I'll see you later. But wait a second. Maybe we can. Tell me what you want to talk about. Otherwise we're done. And it works. Never lose your composure. Now that's a skill because people can try to do that. I got to tell you this. In my former life, when two made guys were having a discussion and because of the position I was in, this happened almost daily where I had to sit down over a business deal or over one, I just described where somebody might have been in trouble. And the older guys were very tactical, because if you're a made guy and I'm sitting here and you're trying to win an argument and you're lying through your teeth, and I know you're lying, if I call you a liar in that argument, I lose the argument. Yeah, I can't do that. I have to figure out how to make the boss, if he's overseeing this, see that you're lying without calling you a liar. So that means I have to be prepared. I have to know what I'm talking about when I get in there.
- [16:57]
A
You.
- [16:57]
C
You can't let your emotions get the best of you.
- [16:59]
B
But.
- [17:00]
A
But I want to touch on that real quick because you talked about how that is a skill. And I would say I've been a culprit as well as, like, you know, I want you to talk about how if there was, like, a situation where somebody was trying to lowball you or that they didn't know your worth, and that can get under somebody's skin. Because I know I've definitely felt that before, especially if it's coming from the same person two or three or four different times, especially maybe if you've already provided value to that person. How do you maintain your composure and not get emotional in that situation and get like, is there. Is there something in that moment? Like, how did you develop that skill? Or was it just innate?
- [17:36]
B
I'm already prepared to know that he's trying to get under my skin. I already know that. It's like I had a sit down with Bill Maher on his club Random. And so many people came back. Michael, how do you keep your composure? You know, Bill was doing this. Well, I know Bill. I know exactly what he's going to do. So why would I let him win? I knew exactly what he was gonna do, you know, and it's the same way whenever I go into a meeting like that, I already know you're gonna try to do something to upset me, you know, something to get to me. So it's not gonna happen. You know, that's my attitude every single time.
- [18:08]
D
There's a couple of lessons there. There's the ability to keep your composure, the ability to walk away from a deal and know your worth, as well as the ability to never underestimate anyone. And especially when you're at a deal and at a table, you never really know all the cards that are at play. But one of the things I'm curious about is you've built businesses within the criminal world as well as in the legal world. Now, what are some of the principles you've taken from that other life and now into the businesses that you have today?
- [18:38]
B
Well, I apply the same principles. Know again, as far as, you know, always being prepared and have a plan. You know, I had, I think, two talents. People have said to me, michael, you're a brilliant businessman. And I said, no, I'm not. I'm not. There's a lot of people out there a lot smarter than me. People that built these, you know, multi billion dollar companies, they're probably smarter than me because they'll do things that I'm not capable of doing. But I had two talents. Number one, I was able to recognize a good opportunity. I saw ahead and said this could work, this couldn't work. So I was able to recognize a good opportunity and then I was always able to put the right people in place to do the right job and motivate them, you know, and I always looked at, I wanted people to buy into the concept. If they didn't buy into the concept and I knew that long term they wouldn't be a fit. I might hire them short term because I needed them for something, but I knew long term they wouldn't fit, be a good fit. I want people committed to what it is they're doing. But how do you get them committed? You treat them right, motivate them.
- [19:40]
D
Something I'm curious about as well is you said prior to us chatting here on camera is that back in the day you would have people pitch you every single Monday on potential business ideas and opportunities. And one thing I'm curious about is would you rather, back in the day, would you rather bet on a great idea or a great person?
- [19:59]
B
It's always a great person. Because a great idea, if it's not what was implemented by a good person is not going to work. Everybody has ideas, but if you don't have the right implementation of that idea, it's not going to work no matter what it is. That's how I look at it anyway.
- [20:18]
A
And you brought up how one of your strengths has always been being able to identify the right opportunity. I want to talk about in today's world, I think one of the biggest things that younger people struggle with is instant gratification. They have that, but they have that shiny object syndrome, especially with things like social media. They're fascinated with the idea of get rich quick schemes and all that type of stuff. How did you maintain your focus on the right, you know, opportunities that would provide for long term gains as opposed to just seeing shiny object Syndrome and wanting to jump from here to here to here to here. How did you maintain that focus and identify those right opportunities and not get distracted?
- [20:56]
B
Well, again, you know, I, I think it's experience at this point because I've been around for so long and seen and look, I've had my mistakes, I've made mistakes, I've had mishaps along the way. Nothing too traumatic or that impacted me in such a way. I'm a risk taker, but my risks are always calculated, calculated risks. But I think again, that just comes with experience. I had no idea. I was very against getting involved in social media. I had 43 or 44 speaking events canceled during the pandemic. And so my team said, what are you going to do? And I said, nothing, I'm going to stay home. I haven't been home like this in 25 years. I'm not traveling. I was traveling 40 weeks a year. I said, it's wonderful, it's great. Can't do that. You got to go on social media. I said, no, too old for that. I want to go on social media. Well, they convinced me, the younger guys, again. So we started our YouTube platform in I think August of the year, the pandemic. And it just blew up, you know, in my view. And then I realized, okay, I'm in business. Social media is the place to go. It's amazing that you're getting paid for advertising yourself. What other medium do you have that you can do that in? They pay me to advertise my products. It's amazing. So I realize, okay, now it's important, the brand is important. So I have to continue to develop this. And so just things like that, something I didn't know right off the bat, but I learned pretty quickly how important it was. So hopefully that answers it.
- [22:29]
C
I don't know, I'm very curious. I mean, I'm sure many people with a background in the mafia life, they probably wouldn't want to talk about these things or come forward about them and share them. What ultimately led to your decision to want to be. To kind of open your life up like this and share some of these stories with us on a public scale.
- [22:50]
B
Very simple. Was a faith based issue. Because instance, I would say because when I came out of prison, I spent almost three years in solitary confinement, 29 months and seven days. I could tell you the hours, to be exact. And that's very difficult. Very, very difficult. And if people tell you it's not, they're not being honest with you, you know, it's A form of torture when you're confined like that. I'm dead set against it. For people your age that are confined because it can ruin them emotionally. I saw a lot of bad things happened with guys that just couldn't handle it, and I don't demean them. It's difficult. But when I came out of prison and I become a person of faith in there, people started to ask me to share my testimony. And this being in a church setting, I did it with professional sports, with college sports. And I would go to a church in the Midwest, and they didn't know who I was. I had a pretty big name back east and a little bit here in California, but Midwest, they didn't know me. And I would go there, and the marquee, it would say the mob guy, and it would be standing room only in the church. So I said, wow, I've been given a platform. People are interested in this life. They're intrigued by it. So I may as well use this platform to get my message across. And that is held strong for 30 years now. I went to Singapore. Singapore. I'm in front of 1800 people. I do my thing. My host tells me, as part of the package, we offered a Q and A. But Michael, Singaporeans are very polite. They don't ask questions. They're very reserved. He said, we're going to put a shill. We'll ask a question or two. I said, great, we'll go home early. I was there for two hours. Where's Jimmy Hoffa buried? You know, what's the best mob movie you ever seen? I was amazed at how involved these people and intrigued there were in my former life. So I said, hey, I've been given a platform. I'm going to use it, and that's it. And it's the basis for everything I do. Because people, that's why you see all this stuff around here. That's. That's what the. But it gives me the platform. Yeah.
- [24:51]
A
How did you find God?
- [24:52]
B
You know, people ask that, and it's, did you find God or did God find you? Or was he always there? You just woke up to it? You know, for me, it was. I don't mind saying it, and I'm very humble with regard to this. The worst night of my life was when I was thrown in solitary. I had done five years in prison. I was out for 13 months, and I violated my parole. I fell into a trap by the government and violated my parole, and they locked me up. Coming out of a bank in Brentwood, California, they Went to my house with a search warrant. Cleaned us out. I was married with two little babies, and they leaned all my bank accounts, drove my car away. And they were very upset that I wasn't cooperating with them. They wanted me to cooperate. And on the way to the lockup, they said, we're indicting you on another case. We have informants that are implicating you in some terrible things. Wasn't really true, but they were saying that. And they said, we violated your parole. You'll never see the street again. So they put me in a hole. And it was the first night that I was always a control guy. I can handle anything, no problem. No matter what it is, I'm going to resolve it. That was the first night that I was out of answers. I said, my wife, we were married, you know, seven years. But I was away for five of those years. Thirteen months on parole. I said, I'm going to lose the girl I did all this for. She was only 26 years old at that point. I said, they can't put me in the yard because I walked away from the life. Everybody was upset with me. Contract on my life, basically. My father had even, you know, he didn't do the right thing with me all the way. I still loved him. And I said, and the government hates me. I said, I got no friends. I got nothing. I'm here maybe for the rest of my life. Now, understand. I visited my dad for 25 years in prison. I did eight years on my own. I was 41 years old. I said, if I'm going to spend the rest of my life in this hole, I don't even want to live. I really felt that night that I just wanted to lay my head on that cot and not wake up. I'll tell you how bad it was. I at one time demeaned people for being suicidal. I said, you're weak. How do you not face your troubles? I don't do that anymore. Now, I wasn't suicidal. I wasn't that brave, but I just wanted to lay down. If you can ever picture being too painful to think about your life, that's how I felt. And long story short, you know, a prison guard had walked by my cell, and he looked in, he said, franzese, you don't look good. Are you all right? I said, get away from me, man. I chased him. I said, I don't want to see any of you guys. And he came back and he pushed the Bible through the slot on the door. And it started my journey. I would say, that and for the next 29 months and seven days, I studied every single faith. I had my wife send me in books on every faith. And if you say my prison Bible, there's more my notes. There's more my notes on there than there is scripture. I think I write on everything I like to learn. And I came out of there a person of faith.
- [27:52]
A
You said that you studied a bunch of different faiths, though. How did you know Christianity was your religion?
- [27:58]
B
It was based upon evidence. I'm very into evidence. I really am. And proving my faith. And it was the only one that resonated with me. I found enough evidence to support that Jesus was crucified and rose from the dead. I found enough evidence and prophecy that was 100% accurate in predicting, you know, things that happened in the New Testament and things I believe that are occurring now. And then I took a sensible path to that because I studied, you know, from the time I was a kid, my father would say to me, the standard you have to live up to in life. You have to be a man's man, walk down the street, have integrity, treat women and children the right way, be honest with people. You know, might sound like, you know, because my dad was a gangster, but that's how he held himself. And so, you know, I heard the same thing in the life. We're men of honor, we're men of integrity, the same thing. So when I started to study Jesus, I separated his deity from his manhood because I wanted to see what kind of guy he was. And I concluded that he was the only perfect man that ever walked the face of the earth in every facet of his character. I was really turned on by his Persona. So I came to this conclusion, and this is something that I think people should understand if you try to emulate, in my view, the greatest person that ever walked the face of the earth in every facet of his character. Well, throughout your life, you're going to be a better person. And even though you fall short, you're going to be better. Everybody around you is going to benefit from you being that type of person. And I said, well, when I die, if for any reason I'm wrong and he's not the savior of the world and there is no eternity, well, what did I have to lose? But throughout my life, you know, I was dead anyway. Throughout my life, I benefited, and everyone around me benefited. But then, you know, there is enough evidence for me to prove that Jesus is our risen savior. And that's. That's all that matters.
- [30:03]
C
Proverbs 16, 7. You have it on the merge. What does it mean? And. And why that verse?
- [30:09]
B
On that very bad night, the first book that I opened up, I didn't know even know where to start to read the Bible, but when I held it and opened it up, it. It just opened up to the book of Proverbs. And I was really turned on by Proverbs. Brilliant book. I mean, Solomon was brilliant, you know, unbelievable. So I started to forget some of the things, and I was focusing on the Proverbs, and I came to this verse. It was the first verse that really struck me. It's when a man's ways are pleasing to the Lord, even his enemies are at peace with him. Well, I had nothing but enemies that night on both sides of the law. And, you know, it was almost. If I had been kidding myself, my wife is a Christian, and she was trying to school me on it, and I was being very polite to her because I respected her position. She lived it, but I wasn't buying into it. And so it was almost that night if I looked at myself in the mirror and said, who are you kidding? You haven't changed anything. You're still a mob guy. But then it was almost as if, I don't know, you know, you get. I never had God speak to me. I never seen him in a dream. I don't hear him audibly. I don't have that gift. Some people do. Maybe I don't. But it was almost that night if something touched my heart and said, well, maybe if you did do the right thing and you did follow me, I'll take care of your enemies. And that thought came into my head, and it started me on this little journey to want to learn a little bit more. And sometimes you can hear one thing that can resonate with you in such a way that it can cause you to want to learn more. And that did it for me.
- [31:45]
D
You're a father now, seven kids. And with those seven kids, you probably had to tell them when they were growing up a bit more about your story. How did you kind of approach that conversation, telling them about your past life? And what's the main lesson that you hope they got away from your story?
- [32:00]
B
Well, in my case, it was kind of hard for them not to know it because I was. I had a lot of media attention. So they knew and they were affected by it. And they visited me in prison, so they knew the whole deal. You know, I always say this, kids, you have to give kids a reason not to love their parents. They want to Love their parents. I mean, I know in my own case with my dad, I wanted to love him. No matter what people said about him, what I read in the newspaper, he was my dad and he was good to me and I loved him. I didn't care. So I tried to be as honest as possibly could with them without revealing everything. I mean, I can tell you this, we're sitting down here having this conversation. I have never had this conversation with my wife till this very moment. She doesn't need to know certain things. I mean, not that she hasn't heard this a million times, but an in depth conversation about the 20 years I've spent in that life. No, I've had a little bit more conversation with my boys. I have two boys. Not so much with the girls, but, you know, they see how I am with them and I think that's enough. And I've tried to instill the right values in them to the best I could. And I've learned something. With kids, you can do everything. You have to understand something. Because sometimes my son will do something. And my wife said, where did we go wrong? And I said, we didn't go wrong. But remember, they are their own person. At some point in time, our kids are not kids anymore. And they're going to make their own decisions. They're going to know the values we instilled with them. They may reject them. Doesn't mean we failed. And so I've come to that conclusion too, because you're your own person, ultimately, you're responsible for your own life. I'll tell you another thing that was very helpful to me. And I tell this to young people all the time. Ten years old, my mother was very hard on me. Very, very strict on me. She didn't spare the rod. She was very tough on me. My father less so, but my mother rough. So I'm 10 years old and she had admonished me for something. I don't remember what it was. And I walked into the living room of my house and my uncle Joe was there. Now my uncle Joe is a merchant marine, hard drinking, tough guy. And I had a tear in my eye and I walked in the room and he said, what's the matter with you? I said, uncle Joe, my mother again, you know, she's doing it. He looked at me and he said, do you have a dictionary in this house? And I said, yeah. He said, go get it. I said, he said, just go get it. Go get it. I bring it back. He said, you're gonna, you know the Alphabet? I said, yeah. He said, you know the letter S? I said, yes. He said, go there, open that page. He says, I want you to look for the word sympathy. And I look for it. And he says, you see the definition? I said, yeah. He said, don't ever look for it again, ever. Now go out here. I never forgot that. Never, ever forgot that. So here's my thing. I said to myself, no matter what goes wrong in my life, I'm to blame. I don't care who screws me. I should have known better. Why didn't I look at this guy's character a little bit more? How did I make that mistake? I have found out when you hold yourself responsible for anything that goes wrong in your life, makes you a better person, more perceptive and works.
- [35:17]
A
Now, I interviewed a gentleman in Palm beach this past August and he was a very successful guy on Wall street, managed money for a lot of ultra wealthy people in New York City. And I asked him about the greatest lesson that he learned about entrepreneurship, I believe. And he said that he ends up bringing it to this. He said, the most important decision that you will ever make is marrying the right woman. And he said that, you know, and ironically I interviewed them, this was organically, and he was with his wife and it was their, I think 65th wedding anniversary, so they were, you know, much older, in their 80s and 90s. And so. And he said that most people find a woman who's part of the problem. I have one, that's part of the solution. How important was that decision and what was the impact that that had on your life? Finding the right woman?
- [36:02]
B
Brilliant statement by that gentleman. I can take it a step further. If I don't meet my wife 1000%, I'm dead or in prison for the rest of my life. Not even a. There's, there's no other way. And the reason being, I can say this. The mob life, the gang life, Mafia cousin Austria, evil lifestyles. Let me be clear. I'm not calling the guys evil. I was one of them. You know, there's an age old question. Why do good people do bad things? Doesn't make them bad people. There's reasons why people make mistakes and do bad things. Doesn't make them a bad person in every case. But the life is evil. Because I don't know any family of any member of that life that hasn't been totally devastated, including my own and not my wife and kids. I've been able to spare them of that. But my mother, 33 years without her husband because my father did 40 years in prison at the end of her life. Her relationship with my dad can only be described as ugly. Why? Because she blamed him, rightfully so, for everything that went wrong. She didn't put him in prison. This was his choice to be in that life. Sister dies of an overdose of drugs, 27 years old. My brother, 25 years, a drug addict, put us through hell. Me just trying to keep him alive on the street. My younger sister, 40 years old, dies at 40. She was never mentally stable. The whole family destroyed. And every family of every member of that life goes through a similar situation. So it's a bad lifestyle, not conducive to a good family life. So I meet this girl and I fall in love with her. I'm a major target of law enforcement at that point in time. I've already been indicted seven times, went to trial five times, been arrested 18 times. Bullseye on my back as big as any picture you got in here. They were never going to let me go, ever. So I meet this girl. I fall in love with her. She's 20 years old. I said, am I going to put her through this? Doesn't make sense. Either I let her go and stay with the life, or I choose her and get out of the life. So I chose her. And everything that followed was based upon my having a life with her. And she has been my rock in every way, shape or form. And we'll be celebrating 40 years together this May, and without her. She's made me a better person, without a doubt, and a smarter person. She made me look at things differently.
- [38:27]
A
I wanted to. It was something I was curious about. Going a little bit back to the old days, I think it was noted that in 2002, you had came out and talked about how during the 1970s and 80s, you were, I guess, persuading New York Yankee baseball players to, I guess, fix games for betting purposes. What were those conversations likes with you and the New York Yankee baseball players? I'm curious about that.
- [38:52]
B
You. You got it a little bit wrong. I want to make it clear I never implicated the Yankees because I am a diehard Yankee fan.
- [38:58]
A
Yeah.
- [38:58]
B
So. But let me clarify that. They tried me. They tried to get me, I think it was 48 hours, I remember, to implicate some Yankees. And I said, get off of this. It's not going to happen. But here's what we did do. I had a pretty big gambling operation. When I say I, you know, bookmakers on the street at that time, you couldn't operate unless you were involved with Us, because we financed you and we collected for you, so you needed us. So I had about 12 bookmakers working for me at the time, working under me. And a lot of athletes would go and gamble with them, you know, and they're not supposed to, but they're gambling with them. So I'll give you an example. Bookmaker would come to me, hey, so and so from the Mets, the Jets, whatever. They rent to me for 50 grand. They haven't paid. What should I do? You know, collect. I said, what are you worried about? I said, what are you doing? You're putting an entry on a piece of paper. It doesn't cost you a penny. I said, let them get into you for 250 grand and then bring them to me. Get them in deep again. Doesn't cost you anything. Piece of paper, get in. 250 grand. Come to my office. Sit down. Hey, you owe me a lot of money. Oh, I didn't know it was your. Well, now you know. It's me. How are you going to pay me? You got to pay. Can't walk away. Well, I don't know. You got a rich uncle. Go rob a bank. I don't care how you do it, but bring me my money on Monday. You know what? On second thought, now he's scared. On second thought, I love your team. You're a pretty good player. I have a lot of respect for you. Here's what I'm going to do. You don't have to pay me all at once. You owe me 2.50. Pay me 1% a week. You play on Sunday. When do you get paid? You get paid Friday. Monday morning, you bring in money in cash, okay? They want to do anything to get out of the room. Okay, great. I don't have to pay. But what happens? They're gamblers. They go to another gambler across town. I mean, another bookmaker across town. They're getting in more debt. So now I bring a guy back. Let's say he's a football player. We'll go football. Stay away from baseball. And let's say he's a. He's a running back, right? Hey, let me tell you how you're going to win. How are you going to pay me back? You don't have to come up with any money, but here's what you're going to do. You're running back. First three times you get the ball, you put it on the ground. First three times, put it on the ground. I'll worry about it after that, because remember, it's Never about winning or losing. It's about the spread. So we know which way we got to go. In a case like that, you get a player working with you for a couple of games, you make a lot of money. And that happened quite often, unfortunately, because they gambled. And I hate to say it, but many athletes are just bad gamblers. I don't know if they're emotional or whatever. They just don't gamble well. So, you know, and look, understand this. You got basketball. You got five guys on the court, right? A referee, he can call a foul every time they go down the court, or he don't have to call a foul. So let's go back where we don't implicate any players. Let's say the Lakers are playing whatever team. Lakers are favored to win by 10. Kobe Bryant is there, right? Time. So how do you. How do you manipulate the spread? How do you do it? You give Kobe three extra minutes, five extra minutes on the bench, call a few extra fouls on him. He sits down for a while. Now you manipulate the spread. Point to 2, 3, you win, you got a referee going along with you for the season. You're going to make a lot of money, a lot of money. So you didn't have to threaten them. You know, a lot of the threats were kind of. They're over, you know, I mean, they didn't know it, but you get them to work with you and they caused their own problem by getting into debt.
- [42:29]
D
Do you think that's still going on today?
- [42:32]
B
It's not as much on the pro level because these guys are making an obscene amount of money. Let's face it, they can cover their bets. You know, I had a thing with Michael Jordan. I can tell you stuff about Michael because I worked at the NBA, but we won't get into that. But I used to say he was a degenerate gambler. The guy gambled on anything. He had a gambling problem. But then I heard him on that documentary that he did, and he said, I don't have a gambling problem. He said, I have a competition problem. And in Michael's case, that's true because his gambling doesn't cause him any problems. He's got enough money to pay his debt. So it's like a harmless activity. He's right. But most people are not in that position. But pro players now, they can support their debts. College, different story. A lot of these kids are in trouble, and it's because of access. Now they can gamble on their phone, and they get in a lot of trouble. And I've had, you know, enough. I've done over 300 Division 1 and Division 2 schools. You want to hear this? Every school I went to, every single school, over 300. When I leave the school and I speak to all the student athletes, you know, male, female, all sports, you got a gambling issue. You know somebody that does, if it's impacting you, email me. I don't work for the school. I don't tell anybody. It's between you. And I don't even give me a name. By the time I go tell back to my hotel room, I have emails from students that are having a gambling problem. That's how serious it could be.
- [44:03]
A
You were extremely diversified. I mean, in a bunch of unique businesses, right? Obviously, you had the gambling operation, you were in, you know, the gasoline with the Russians. You were in film, you had car dealerships. What are your thoughts on diversification for entrepreneurs? And it's a big debate in today's world whether people should just go deep on one thing or whether they should diversify. Tell me about how you feel about diversify, diversification.
- [44:27]
B
It's all according to your talent level, you know, if you can handle. I mean, I'm entrepreneurial in that I can get involved in a lot of different things. As a matter of fact, sometimes it's at this point in my life I shouldn't because I don't want to spend that kind of time. When I was your age and I was younger, forget it. You bring me something I like and I'm into it, and I'm working it, too. I mean, I work seven days a week if I had to. So if you can handle it, if it's within you to handle it, and you, you, you have that capability, I don't see anything wrong with it.
- [44:57]
A
And you talked, right? One thing that you advocated here, and I know that we spoke earlier about how important it was, like putting the right people in places. When you have all these kind of different operations and businesses going on, how are you ensuring that all of them are staying on top of things? Or is it just you're instilling the principles and all these people, or how are you able to balance all these different things going on? Because, you know, you can't be in 150 places at one time, but other people can.
- [45:19]
B
I agree. Well, you have to take what you're able to handle, but you can't. There's no absentee management, in my view. I had to be on top. People had to know that I'm paying attention. And so I Never went outside of that. I wouldn't take on something I knew I couldn't give my time to. That was always the key to me. Can I get involved in this? Time wise, am I able to do it? And if I thought I could and it was worth it, then I would do it.
- [45:42]
A
Yeah.
- [45:43]
B
Time management, you know, you talk about, I had two car agencies. I bought a Mazda agency. When you couldn't give a Mazda away, the Wankel engines were exploding, you couldn't give them away. I took it from a guy that was ready to close his doors, and I built that into the biggest agency on the northeast. In the Northeast. And I was your age, and the way I did it, it was just, I figured out new things to do until that I knew the car would come back. Mazda's not going out of business. They're going to figure out the problem. So I did things to compensate, to bring income in until that came back. And. But again, I mean, I worked it. I worked my butt off, you know, to do it, but we did it.
- [46:22]
A
Yeah.
- [46:23]
D
One of the things I'm really curious about is early on in your career within the Mafia, you're probably getting exposed to a whole new way of life. But I'm wondering, is there, was there a certain moment or maybe deal that went south or just, you know, interaction where you were like, wow, this is. This is not a game. This is real life.
- [46:44]
B
Well, there was a couple of those. But, you know, business wise, I learned something right away. You know, how to deal with the hierarchy of the mob. I'll tell you what happened. Somebody, a guy under me, he hijacked a load of meat. Me, right? And he brought it to me. And there's a saying in that life, you have to put everything on record. Anything that's done on the street, you have to put it on record with your boss to let him know that this is going on. They do it for two reasons. The first reason is in case somebody challenges you from within the family or another family, it's on record, we know about this so we can protect you. If it's not on record, you're going to lose. Secondly, they want to know what you're doing. This is the way for them to keep tabs on you. So this guy brings me a load of meat, and I bring it into my boss. At the time, he was my captain. I was a soldier, and I said, you know, this is what I got. I was a recruit, I wasn't even a soldier. And I said, I'm going to sell it and I'll bring it to the, I'll bring it to you. So I sell it, I think I got like almost $7,000 for it. So I hand him the whole 7,000. Two days later, he hands me back 600 bucks. I said 600 bucks, I just bought you seven grand. That's all I get out of this. So immediately the next time I went to visit my dad, I said, hey dad, what's going on here? You know this how this works. You know, I'm new, I'm a recruit. And he says from now on, he says, anything you get on the street, put it on record. But you give them 25% of anything that you, you give it to them, you don't let them, you don't give them the money and let them take it from, give you what they want to give you. So I mean that was eye opening as far as business was concerned. So my formula on the street was whatever I do, you get 25% of. If you're my partner, that's a different thing. Then we'll work it out. But if I bring a score, I bring something in, you got 25%, that's it. And so I figured that out early on. Otherwise, you know, they take advantage of you. It's just the way it goes. So I don't know if I answered your question, but hopefully it was at least partially I did. Yeah, go ahead.
- [48:41]
A
I mean, I'm just going to say this was absolutely incredible. We got two last questions for you. What's one guiding principle you could give to any 20 year old watching this right now? Your best advice to a 20 year old starting out in the real world today, Give them one more nugget piece of advice. Something to stick with them to take on for the rest of their lives.
- [48:59]
B
Well, again, it's, it's multifaceted with me. You know, take responsibility for everything. Don't rely or put the blame the way I, I. One of my pet peeves is when people make a mistake and don't take responsibility for it because we all make mistakes. I still make them and I gladly take responsibility for them. That's number one. Number two, again, surround yourself with the right people. You are who you hang out with. Your people will influence you. No matter how strong you think you are, you must, you are judged by who you hang with. People are going to judge you even if it's, if it's not a proper judgment, they're going to judge you by the people you hang out with. And then of course, accountability, accountability is everything. In life, who you are accountable to is going to direct the path that you want. So get that. Yet the right person. For me, it's God first, family second, and then the people that rely on you and do business with you. And don't burn bridges. Don't burn bridges, no matter what you think. I mean, it's okay to cut somebody out of your life if they're no good, but don't burn bridges because they come in useful at some point in your life if you have that entrepreneurial spirit about you. You know, another thing I tell people, not everybody is cut out to be a business person. You know, some people are just better at work. If that's your deal in life, go for it. There's nothing to be ashamed of. If you're a better worker than you are a business person or a boss or a leader, go for it, because we need workers. I wouldn't have what I have if I had didn't have skilled people working under me. So there's nothing wrong with that.
- [50:26]
C
And we usually like to cap our podcasts off. You know, we asked a lot of very successful and storied people on our channel how they made their success, and we see those clues left in our interviews. And so I just wanted to ask you, how do you want to be remembered? What legacy do you want to leave behind for everybody watching right now?
- [50:44]
B
You know, very important for me right now, I've realized one thing in life is that we are losing a sense of community in the world. It might be because of social media, might be because people don't have to get out in the world as much. So I recently started a platform that's basically a community where people have resources that we put in there how to negotiate, how to be a leader, how to be a good boss. We do Bible studies in there to bring people together. We have entrepreneurs and we have workers working together in a community environment to benefit one another. And I'm very active in that community because I want people to know I didn't just create this. I'm not just the name on the brand. I'm part of it because I want to instill the way I grew up. It was always a sense of community, a sense of family that we're lacking. I believe the greatest problem or challenge we face in this country now, the root problem of so many issues is the breakup of the family and the breakup of the community. And if we can bring that back, it's important. So I've started a community, if you don't mind. It's michaelfranciece.com family. I know you have one too. I'm not sure what you're into, but I think these platforms are tremendously beneficial when people can get together for a common interest and work together for the benefit of everyone. And that's going to be my legacy. If it goes according to plan, it's that I brought people together. And as a result of bringing them together, we effectuated change in the right way, in a positive way.
- [52:15]
A
Michael, this was incredible. Thank you so much for having us out to your home out here in Newport Beach. And where can everybody find you on social media? We'll put the links down in the description as well.
- [52:22]
B
Well, but yeah, it's just on every platform. I believe it's at Michael Franzis and my team know. I hope I'm getting it right.
- [52:30]
A
Where can, where can I get myself a bottle of these if I want one of those?
- [52:33]
B
Well, we're in, you know, about nine states right now. We're in all the big store. We're in Ralph's, we're in Costco, we're in Kroger, we're in Total Wines. We're everywhere now.
- [52:42]
A
And what's the name of the.
- [52:43]
B
It's Franzy Swine. Francis Francie Swine. You could also go to franziswine.com we're direct to consumer also. And pizza. We have pizza vending machines. Something that is pretty innovative. But I promise you this, Coles slices, the pizza coming out of that machine is as good as it is coming out of the oven. That's the formula. Wow. I love it. Otherwise I'm Italian. I wouldn't have it, but it's great.
- [53:05]
A
Guys, thank you so much for tuning in. This was an incredible episode with Michael Franzisi. One of my favorites that I've ever done. This was a treat getting to come out here and interview you and in Newport Beach. But I need you guys to like, subscribe for incredible content interviews with the most successful people in the entire world. We're going all over the world for you guys and we're going to put links down to your community as well as our community as well. The School of mentors, the one of the biggest communities in the entire world where we bring in the multimillionaires and billionaires that we interview to mentor all of the members in there. So check out the communities, become a member of those today. And we can't wait to see you guys in the next episode. We'll see you guys soon.
- [53:45]
B
If I can add one thing, I have to say this. This is why I surround myself with young people, because this was one of the most innovative interviews that I've ever done, and I really mean that. And you guys were great. So thank you.
- [53:58]
D
Thank you so much.
- [53:59]
A
Thank you so much.