Poppi Founders | How They Built Poppi Into A $500 Million A Year Soda Company In 4 Years (Then Sold For $2 Billion)

Summary

School of Hard Knocks Podcast

Episode Summary: Poppi Founders | How They Built Poppi Into A $500 Million A Year Soda Company In 4 Years (Then Sold For $2 Billion)

Guests: Allison and Steven Ellsworth, Founders of Poppi
Hosts: James, Jack, and Josh
Released: April 2, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode features Allison and Steven Ellsworth, the married co-founders of Poppi, the functional soda brand acquired by PepsiCo for $2 billion just four years after launch. The conversation dives deep into how the duo went from kitchen experiments and maxed-out credit cards to one of the beverage industry’s fastest-growing brands. Key themes include risk-taking, marriage and entrepreneurship, consumer feedback, branding evolution, the power of social media, scaling challenges, team building, and the emotional journey of both the highs and lows of startup life.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Emotional Impact of Selling for $2 Billion

• The sale brought “freedom” but also a sense of overwhelm and a need to search for renewed purpose.

  • Allison: “Freedom is actually a very overwhelming feeling… With freedom, is there really purpose?” (01:23)
  • Steven: “You still put your pants on one leg at a time… life didn’t really change.” (03:06)

• Even after the exit, “normal” life—parenting, meetings—continued.

  • Allison: “Our kids were still screaming... and so it’s this feeling that I feel like a lot of exited founders don’t talk about, but now that the year has settled, we feel a lot different.” (02:25)

2. Husband-and-Wife Founders: Balancing Risk, Trust, and Conflict

• Allison is the “crazy one,” jumping off entrepreneurial cliffs; Steven is the builder and planner.

  • Allison: “I’m always like jumping off the cliff. And he’s building the business plan and trying to catch me as I’m jumping off the next cliff.” (03:52)
  • Steven: “You’ve got to be able to engage in healthy conflict... you need to be willing to have those tough conversations.” (16:18)

• Success as co-founder-couple is rare and requires full commitment and trust.

  • “Both parties need to be 100% committed; 50/50 is one foot in, one foot out.” (15:16 - Steven)
  • “People always ask us who we look up to. We’ve really struggled finding a husband and wife couple that have had an exit that are not divorced or on their way.” (16:26 - Allison)

3. All-In from Day One: Quitting Jobs, Risking Everything

• The pair gave up lucrative oil industry jobs, invested $90,000, maxed out credit cards, and sold both cars to fund Poppi’s start.
  • “We invested about $90,000 year one, maxed out our credit cards, sold both of our cars... to open our own manufacturing facility.” (05:58 - Allison)
  • “When you can’t afford your mortgage, you better love what you’re doing.” (40:40 - Steven)

4. Proving Product-Market Fit: From Kitchen to Farmer’s Market to Whole Foods

• Early positive feedback from friends/family was not enough; real proof came from farmer’s market consumers.

  • “Can you really trust feedback from your friends and family?... we took it to the farmer’s market in Dallas.” (06:58 - Steven)
  • Breakthrough: A Whole Foods' forager discovered them at their booth just weeks in. (07:23)

• Product evolution was crucial—early batches tasted terrible.

  • “When we first started it, it had so much apple cider vinegar in it… it was not good.” (07:23 - Allison)
  • Learning: Shifted messaging from “apple cider vinegar drink” to “revolutionizing soda,” gaining consumer understanding. (09:36 - Allison)

5. Capital, Shark Tank, and Strategic Partners

• Early outside investment offers lacked value (“dumb money”), leading them to Shark Tank, which was pivotal.

  • “At that point, we were growing… But he couldn’t really bring any resources to the table. Don’t take dumb money.” (10:29 - Allison)
  • “Due diligence takes a long time... getting in business with someone is a marriage… harder than a marriage, I’ll be honest.” (12:44 - Allison)

• Shark Tank deal led to a meaningful rebrand, pushing their brand identity and product into new territory.

  • “Our Shark basically said... your liquid is fire, but your branding is shit.” (23:30 - Allison)
  • Spent nine months on a complete rebrand (Mother Beverage → Poppi), focusing on vibrancy and soda cues. (23:43 - Allison)

6. The Power of Social Media: TikTok as a Rocket Fuel

• Early TikTok adoption and story-sharing led to a viral moment (250 million+ views) and instant sell-outs.

  • “We were of the first brands to get online on TikTok to really connect with our community... it went absolutely viral. We sold out every shelf, every grocery store.” (18:01 - Allison)

• Overcame skepticism from board/advisors; authenticity, fun, and ‘messy’ content drove loyalty.

  • “Instagram is your website, but TikTok’s really discovery for brand awareness.” (18:46 - Allison)
  • “We were authentic, we were raw, we weren’t high gloss. We were messy, we were awkward, and people related to that.” (19:34 - Allison)

7. Scaling and Team Building: Hiring Mistakes and Lessons Learned

• Early hires were based on personality and grit, sometimes overlooking skill gaps; later learned the importance of values and culture fit.

  • “They don’t have to be like you… they have to have the same values that contribute to what the overall culture is.” (20:42 - Steven)
  • “Fire them quickly. Get them out of there.” (22:14 - Allison)

• Gave almost all employees equity; valued their team, which contributed to post-sale camaraderie.

  • “We gave 99% of people at Poppi equity and it was like a four-year vest... it was like 40 people millionaires.” (38:36 - Allison)

8. Consumer Feedback, Ego, and Iterative Brand Building

• Key to survival: Willingness to take criticism (“let people call your baby ugly”) and pivot as needed.

  • “You have to have that... You don’t want to surround yourself with people who are just going to say yes.” (26:14 - Steven)

• Even successful founders admit ego gets checked repeatedly during the journey.

  • “You don’t just not have an ego overnight... you kind of have to have one to start.” (27:09 - Allison)

9. On Fun as a Business Fuel, Embarrassment & Confidence

• Allison: “Fun is fuel for business—don’t take yourself so seriously.” (52:59)

• Embarrassment is the “number one unexplored emotion” for success:

  • “Every successful speaker on stage once shook first… embarrassment holds people back… lean into it.” (31:07 - Allison)
  • “Being cringy was the cost to that success.” (33:31 - Allison)

• Confidence is built by working through awkward, embarrassing moments.

10. On Hiring and Scaling Systems

• Initially, they hired six months too late; now, they plan out org charts and strategic hires well in advance.

  • “Now we’re probably looking at it to say... making sure that we’re staying at least 12 months ahead of the hires.” (36:45 - Steven)

• Not all team members are meant to be long-term as the company grows—tough conversations are inevitable.

  • “You helped us get here, you’ve been amazing, but we’ve simply outgrown you.” (38:05 - Steven)

11. Celebrity Partnerships: Why Most Fail

• Authenticity trumps fame. Early partnership with Jennifer Lopez flopped (“gained zero followers”); working with Alex Earl & Post Malone succeeded because relationships were organic and long-term.

  • “The consumer is smarter… it just felt transactional.” (44:17 - Steven)
  • “Find your next Alex and Jake... find early stars and grow with them.” (44:47 - Allison)

• Operations and team infrastructure matter as much as the face of the brand.

  • “If you can find that piece of the operational side, it can be successful.” (46:52 - Allison)

12. On Work-Life Balance and Sacrifice

• Building Poppi meant “absolutely zero balance”—and that was okay for them.

  • “Let’s stop shaming each other around work-life balance. If you need to work hard, do that.” (47:31 - Allison)

• Seasonality in life: Each phase brings new definitions of happiness and what balance means.

  • “Go find what makes you happy and brings you joy and go do that. Don’t worry about what anybody else is doing.” (49:14 - Steven)
  • “If you want what others can’t have, you have to do what others won’t do.” (50:49 - Steven)

13. Advice to Aspiring Founders and Legacy

• Have fun along the way—don’t lose sight of joy.

  • “Fun is fuel for business and the key to not burning out.” (52:59 - Allison)

• It’s okay to fail and not know everything; ask for help.

  • “If I could go back... I had a really hard time asking for help and that’s probably the biggest piece of advice.” (53:36 - Steven)

• Last message: The American dream is alive; live with no regrets.

  • “The American dream is live and well, and we are proof.” (54:51 - Allison)
  • “Show up—if you have a dream, do whatever it takes to make it happen.” (54:55 - Steven)

• Legacy: Female leadership, generosity, and building great businesses without losing kindness.

  • “Exiting my company is the largest exit of a female founder in beverage history. To set that legacy that other females can do what I did is really impactful.” (55:13 - Allison)
  • “Never gives you the permission to be a jerk... I want to be remembered as someone that was a good human... and built really cool businesses.” (55:24 - Steven)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• “Freedom is actually a very overwhelming feeling. Right. Because with freedom, is there really purpose?”
  — Allison (01:23)

• “You got to be able to engage in healthy conflict. Just because you’re brothers or your husband and wife doesn’t mean that everything’s always perfect... we had to ultimately trust one another.”
  — Steven (16:18)

• “Fun is fuel for business and that you have to continue to have fun... and I think fun is the key to not burning out.”
  — Allison (52:59)

• “Let people call your baby ugly.”
  — Steven (26:14)

• “Instagram is like your website, but TikTok’s really discover platform. That’s where people are going to discover you... That was us writing our own playbook.”
  — Allison (18:46)

• “Fire them quickly. Get them out of there.”
  — Allison (22:14)

• “Embarrassment is the number one unexplored emotion when it comes to success.”
  — Allison (31:07)

• “If you want what others can’t have, you have to do what others won’t do.”
  — Steven (50:49)

• “Exiting my company [was] the largest exit of a female founder in beverage history. To set that legacy that other females can do what I did... is really impactful.”
  — Allison (55:13)

• “Never gives you the permission to be a jerk... I want to be remembered as someone that was a good human that was generous with their time, but also built really cool businesses.”
  — Steven (55:24)

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Key Timestamps

• 01:23 – Feeling after the exit: ‘Freedom and overwhelm’
• 03:52 – ‘Jumping off the cliff’: Their co-founder dynamic
• 05:58 – Going all in: Quitting jobs, maxing out cards
• 07:23 – Farmer’s Market to Whole Foods: Proof of concept
• 10:29 – Shark Tank: Seeking strategic partners, not ‘dumb money’
• 18:01 – TikTok: Viral breakthrough, selling out everywhere
• 23:30 – Rebranding: The critical pivot from Mother Beverage to Poppi
• 26:14 – Feedback & ego: “Let people call your baby ugly”
• 36:45 – Scaling infrastructure and team: Lessons learned
• 44:17 – Celebrity partnerships: Why JLo didn’t work, but Alex Earl did
• 47:31 – Work-life balance: “Absolutely zero balance”
• 52:59 – Advice to self: Fun is fuel for business
• 54:51 – Final word: The American dream is alive

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Themes and Takeaways

• Entrepreneurship is not glamorous—expect chaos, lack of balance, and regular ego checks.
• Consumer feedback must drive product, branding, and company culture—ego is the enemy.
• Brand authenticity and organic growth (especially via social media) trump traditional celebrity partnerships or legacy marketing.
• Strong co-founder dynamics rely on complementary skill sets, radical trust, and mutual commitment.
• Success is possible without sacrificing humanity: generosity, fun, and respect are part of lasting legacies.
• The American dream is real—if you embrace risk, embrace rejection, and commit wholeheartedly.

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For Listeners

This episode is a must-listen for aspiring founders, especially those considering working with close partners or spouses. There are real, tactical insights on growing a CPG company, lessons for modern branding, hiring, and maintaining startup energy while scaling—alongside heartfelt advice on the emotional and personal sides of entrepreneurship.

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Don’t miss September 2026—Allison and Steven tease something big coming soon! Stay tuned. (56:05)

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Transcript

[James]

The husband and wife duo, the founders of Poppy, in which they sold for $2 billion with a B to PepsiCo.

[Jack]

People like to say, don't do business with friends or family. You guys did this business while you were married. How has that dynamic been?

[Allison]

He's like, we just bought a house. You're pregnant. And I was like, we're going all in.

[Steven]

The money hit in May, and we actually had, like, our biggest fight that we had ever had. If you don't have the ability to trust one another, nothing really works.

[Josh]

I think it's incredible. You guys just left everything. You were making over $1,000 a day in the oil industry, and you're like, you know what? I'm gonna go all in on my own product.

[Allison]

We about $90,000 year one, maxed out our credit cards, sold both of our cars to be able to buy more bottles, to open our own manufacturing facility.

[Steven]

When you can't afford your mortgage, you better love what you're doing.

[James]

Alison, Steven, if all of us in this room were to pass away tomorrow and you could leave one more message with the younger generation, what would that be? What's going on, everyone? Welcome back to the School of Hard Knocks podcast. I'm James. I'm here with Jack and Josh, and we have not one, but two incredible guests for you all today. The husband and wife du founders of Poppy, in which they sold for $2 billion with a B to PepsiCo in what year?

[Allison]

Just last year? One year ago this month.

[James]

Honestly, to the day, literally to the day, actually. How did that exit feel? First of all, that's. That's what I want to first talk about. You. You guys put blood, sweat, and tears into building this company. You know, how did. How did that feel?

[Allison]

You know, the number one feeling that I personally had when we sold the company was freedom. Freedom and wealth. Freedom to do whatever we wanted to do. And I'll be honest, freedom is actually a very overwhelming feeling. Right. Because with freedom, is there really purpose? And so I feel like we took really the last year post exit to find what is that next purpose and like, kind of look inward and work through that. So I think people are like, you sell your company. Like, this is insane. Incredible. But with that comes so many more decisions in life.

[Steven]

Yeah, I would say I didn't feel like I expected it. It was going to feel. But I would say that the feeling got better over time. We actually gotten our biggest, like, because we. We signed to close to sell the business like a year ago, honestly, to the day, I think. And then it Took about two months for the FTC to like, review, make sure that there was nothing going on. But the money hit in May and we actually had like, our biggest fight that we had ever had. And it was like literally over, over nothing.

[Allison]

But not taking time to celebrate it, honestly, because we're like, move our meetings, let's go to lunch, let's go celebrate this, the money hitting the bank. Because we were like, that's honestly more exciting for us personally is to like, have the money hit the bank versus just signing the paperwork. And we fought and we were just like, why didn't you move your meetings? Why didn't I? And so it's so funny because people think you're going to have this exit and have all of this wealth and then like, your life will change. Well, it didn't really change. We still had meetings, our kids were still screaming, like, trying to get them off to school. And so it's this, this feeling that I feel like a lot of exited founders don't talk about, but now that the year has settled, we feel a lot different. But that's just those raw emotions that you have at the beginning.

[Steven]

Yeah, you still put your pants on one leg at a time, you know. But yeah, I would, I would agree. Like, once you sort of go through the emotion, the emotional sort of roller coaster that it is and finding what your purpose is, I think it's, it's, it is, there's like this freedom. This is this weight that's lifted off your, off of your shoulders. And I think you just get to look at it to say, hey, I can do whatever I want right now. And a lot of that for us, it's like going back to work. It's like finding a new project that we can pour ourselves into that we're super, super passionate about. But, like, we get to do it on our own terms this time. Who we want, when we want, and with whom we want.

[James]

So when you first started the company, you guys didn't start in some fancy factory, you guys started out of a kitchen. When the company first started, which one of you secretly believed that this thing was going to become a billion dollar company? And which one of you thought that the other person was a little crazy?

[Allison]

You know, we've always both been very entrepreneurial, and I think that was something that was just really attractive to each other and kind of like brought us together. Is that entrepreneurial? Sp it. But I'm definitely the crazy one in, in most of the just life decisions, I'm always like jumping off the cliff. And he's building the business plan and trying to catch me as I'm jumping off the next cliff. And I really think that that combination set us up for a lot of success. Because I just, I mean, before I met him, I was making so much money in oil and gas research. I mean, we were making upwards of $1,000 a day, and I didn't even have a savings account. I was spending it left and right, having fun, traveling, doing things. He, hey, maybe we should, you know, think about, like, retirement someday and all these things. So it's always been just like that combination of where I'm like, no, let's go have fun. He's like, well, let's have a plan. And so for me, I think I love that about having a founder. And I, you know, even if it's not husband and wife duo, having that person to balance you out in business, I think is really important because the high highs are going to be higher. In the low lows, you actually have someone there with you, which is really nice. But I started the company because I had just some health problems, girl problems, like, my tummy always hurt, my skin was a mess. Started drinking apple cider vinegar, hated the taste, wanted to figure out a way to make it taste good. And so it was a total passion project, experiment in my kitchen. And he just, like, trusted me through that process. I mean, it tasted horrible at the beginning.

[Steven]

It was awful. Like, here's what I would say is she. She has been the crazy one that's like, hey, I've got this idea. I don't know if it's going to work or not, but I have this idea I'm excited about. We're going to go do it.

[James]

And when she has that idea, do you just let her run with it? You just kind of let her go or.

[Steven]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, like, like, to an extent, right? Like, I'm not going to. It took me probably about a month and a half to like, really get behind it. So. But. But it wasn't like, hey, babes, don't. Don't do this. It was like, hey, like, take your time, whatever. We can spend some money. Like, let's start figuring it out. But before we really started to put our life savings into it and really, like, dedicate and say, hey, this is what we're doing. It probably took me six weeks, eight weeks maybe.

[Allison]

Honestly, pretty quick for two people to start a business, quit their entire jobs, put their life savings into it, Right? A lot of people will do that for two years trying to make it work. So I think that is why we are built a little bit different, because we were just so passionate, went all in day one. And I think that's really hard for entrepreneurs to do. We invested about $90,000 year one, maxed out our credit cards, sold both of our cars to be able to buy more bottles, to open our own manufacturing facility. Like, we believed that the future of soda. And I think that belief took us, you know, through the hard times.

[Josh]

I think it's incredible that you guys just left everything. Like you guys said. You were making over $1,000 a day in the oil industry, and you're like, look, you know what? I'm going to go all in on my own product. How did you get proof of concept, though? Because it's one thing to solve a personal problem, but it's another thing to be like, okay, this is not only a problem that I'm solving for me, but I'm solving for others as well. How did you go about validating that idea in the early stages?

[Steven]

I mean, it was. It was really organic initially, and we. We were, like, really iterative with the. With the product. But first it was friends and family. But, like, like, can you really trust feedback from your friends and family? Oh, my gosh, this is so great. I love it. So then we took it to the. To the farmer's market in Dallas. That was really where we launched the product at first. And then you get, like, real consumers, like, hey, like, you know, do you like this or not? When we first started it, it had so much apple cider vinegar in it.

[Allison]

It was not good.

[Steven]

And I just remember, because it was. It was her product, it was her story. The product needed a lot of work, and I knew that because I would. I would sample it to someone. And this is like a. This is like a soda replacement, right? This is better for you, soda. And I'd be like, here, sample this. And they'd take a shot and they would pause and they'd be like, am I supposed to drink that whole bottle? And I was like, yeah, it's just like a soda, right? And they're like, no, not really. So it took a little bit to get proof of concept and, like, cater to, like, what consumers actually wanted. But the. The great thing for us was, is our third week at the Dallas Farmer's Market, we had a pretty cool booth compared to, like, everything else that was there. We had a bunch of people around. The energy was super high. People were loving the product. And a local forager from Whole Foods actually approached our booth. She saw like, everything that was going on, it was like, I have to check this out. So she came up. I was working with somebody. She went up to Allison in incognito, tried the product. Allison told the story, and she was like, I'm obsessed with what you guys are doing. Like, you guys. You guys. I don't really do this. I'm not. I'm here to see my family. I'm not here for work, but here's my card. You guys need to be in Whole Foods.

[Jack]

At what point in the. The journ from when you guys started to. Then at what point was that for you guys?

[Steven]

That was our third week at the farmer's market, and we had probably been working maybe just a couple months prior, like, in our kitchen, like, trying to figure it out.

[Allison]

Say, like, three or four months. Like, you know, like, you're just, like, tinking around, and there's, like, the mason jars and stuff like that. So this was the first time we kind of went out to sell the product, but it was still kind of a hobby because I just got pregnant. I was about three months pregnant. I didn't want to go back on the road and do oil and gas. We just bought a house. And I remember that moment when I got the card. I was like, this is Whole Foods. We're doing this. And he's like, we just bought a house. You're pregnant. And I was like, we're going all in. And it was nice to have that confirmation kind of early, but I think, like, the consumer took longer for them to kind of get it. And I think a lot of times, listening to your consumer is a little bit hard for people. When you first start a company, I remember to your point, they would kind of try the product. They would look at me with confusion. And when it's your idea, confusion feels a lot like. Like failure, right? Where you're just like, why. Why don't you get this? Like, I get this. I just. It just, like, didn't get. I.

[Steven]

Rejection.

[Allison]

Rejection sucks, right? But through that rejection, I refined how I was talking to the consumer. So I went from talking about, this is an apple cider vinegar drink, too. We are revolutionizing soda for the next generation. That changes everything, right? And so through that process, it's kind of like that embarrassing moment where you're just, like, standing there feeling dumb. Then comes refinement, then comes clarity, then comes the confidence of learning. And that's by listening to your consumer over and over again, which that can take a lot of time. That doesn't happen really overnight.

[James]

The Bevolution.

[Allison]

Yeah, the Bevolution. I love that.

[James]

There we go. At what point did you realize that it was time to go and take on some capital? And how did Shark Tank come about? Because that was. Obviously, you got a massive kind of initial investment on there. What point did you guys kind of have the realization that it's like, hey, we could think way bigger and not just try to bootstrap this and do everything ourselves, but rather, let's go seek some outside capital?

[Allison]

We were about 500,000 in revenue, and we had someone come to us and offer us around $200,000 to invest into our company. But with that money came zero resources, zero network. He was just a guy that liked our product. And we were looking at this seriously because at that point, we were growing. We were in Whole Foods, we had our own manufacturing facility. But he couldn't really bring any resources to the table. And I think that's really important. It's the old saying, don't take dumb money. And so I saw online Shark Tank was coming to town. And so we really went and stood in line for, like, eight hours and pitched our hearts out and went through that whole process. And it took us about six months to go through from the Shark Tank, like, pitching to actually being on the show and getting a deal. I was nine months pregnant, and I was like, I hope this eventually happens. I don't want to have the baby. And, like, it was like this whole thing, and we ended up securing a deal. And, you know, I look back and I've said this before where I don't know if we wouldn't have gotten that deal if we'd still be in business. Right. Because we were so strapped for cash. It wasn't that we didn't have a good product. It's just. It's really easy to fail if you're not. If you don't have a partner that has money.

[Steven]

I think we. We could have kept going, but it would have been different. It would have been another couple years of slog, and who knows if. If we would have made it or not. I think, like, one of the good things that we had about starting the business is we didn't know anything. Knowing what we know now and starting a beverage business, it looks a lot different. It's like most beverage businesses raise hundreds of millions of dollars of capital. Very few of them ever survive and sort of break through main and have it escape velocity and become household brands. So it was really critical that we had a partner that was strategic, that had done it before had access to great people, ultimately had much deeper pockets than the initial investment on Shark Tank. So yeah, I think it was worthwhile for sure.

[Jack]

So you've been on both sides of the table at Shark Tank. You've been on the pitching side and you've been on the investing side. What was the process from the pitching standpoint? Like, what was that process after you guys secured a deal versus, like actually being a shark like on the show? Like, what does that process actually look like?

[Allison]

You know, there's two things on both sides that are reality, is that due diligence takes a long time. So when we got our deal, it took about six months for Rohan Ozas, who we got our deal with the Shark to go through the business and actually make sure we were legit business and that we weren't lying on the show to actually closing and funding. And that took about six months. And it's the same thing when I was a shark this season is that due diligence can take a lot of time and you discover is that product ownable? Is they. Are they saying what they believe they're saying? Is this going to be a partner I want to get into business with? Because at the end of the day, getting in business with someone is a marriage. Like it's, you're. It's almost like harder than a marriage, I'll be honest, because at least with marriage you've like signed up before you get in business and you like like the person, you have to like, grow to like the person and trust and there's so much that comes with that. And so love that I was able to be on both sides because I think it made me a better investor. I have more empathy for that entrepreneur because I stood right where they stood. I also did not want to take investment unless I could add value. I didn't want to just take these people's like 10, 20, 30% of their business if I could not add value back. So I was. The respect that I have for them I think was awesome. And then something I loved about the show is they want entrepreneurs to be successful and get deals. So the producers in the back end are madly working for months trying to match people up correctly, even though you don't know as an entrepreneur or as a judge whether or not who that business person is. So I think the show is beautiful. It's like the most American dream type show out there and it's been running 17 years. So it was cool to kind of experience both sides.

[Jack]

You had brought up that entrepreneurship is like A marriage. And when I look at you guys, I see, like, almost like a unicorn. And when I look at even, like, entrepreneurship teams that are, like most people like to say, don't do business with friends or family. It's just not like, a great, great thing to get into. Like, I look at entrepreneurship teams, like, even ourselves for, for instance, like, brothers and friend as, like, it's like, there's so few pairings that that actually works. Like, some there. Sometimes there could be a falling out. Sometimes there could be. It's one thing to, like, be friends or, like, be siblings, and then at the end of the day, you go back to your own apartments or wherever you live, and you can kind of take a break from that. But you guys did this business while you were married. How has that dynamic been? I know that, you know, Allison says that she kind of has the crazy drive, and then, Steven, you're kind of able to reel her in. But how has that been for you guys being, like, married and building this company into what it was?

[Steven]

It's a lot. But I think, like, the biggest thing is, is that a relationship is built on trust and commitment. And I think that if you don't have the ability to trust one another to do what they say they're going to do, and if. And if vice versa, if I don't show up and do what I say I'm going to do, like, nothing really works. I also like what you said as well. I'll talk about commitment, too. But like, a business relationship and a marriage, they all, like, each party has to be committed 100. They can't be 50, 50 once. If you think about it, like, 50, 50 is like one foot in, one foot out, you know, because inevitably one or both of you are going to be falling short on any given day. And so you've got to be 100 committed. But I also think it's like, you've got to be able to engage in healthy conflict. Like you were saying, like, you. You. Like, just because your brothers or your husband and wife doesn't mean that everything's always perfect. Like, you need to be willing to have those tough conversations. Like. Like, there was a lot of tough conversations both ways where I didn't want to hear it or she didn't want to hear it. But we. We had those conversations, and at the end of the day, like, we had to ultimately trust one another that it was that we were coming in and having these conversations with. With positive intent and wanting to make things better, not make them worse.

[Allison]

I love that you Said it's a unicorn. Because people always ask us who we look up to. And we've really struggled finding a husband and wife couple that have had an exit that are not divorced or on

[Steven]

their way to being divorced or on their way.

[Allison]

And it's so funny. Like, we've really racked our brains. Like, it's really hard to, like, think about it. Maybe, like, Zuck is still married to his wife. Right. But it's really hard, if you think about it, to go through, like, crazy wealth, crazy change so public. Like, everybody knows we sold their company for $2 billion and to then make sure we still have values for our kids and our family at home. Like, I'm like, I think it's kind of cool that we can be that inspiration for others.

[James]

In the first five years, you guys became the fastest growing beverage company in the entire world. You scaled out to, what was it, $500 million in four and a half years.

[Allison]

Yes.

[James]

Which is incredible. Could you explain what was that rocket feel that enabled you to grow significantly that quickly? Because, I mean, and a lot of people. And maybe I want to ask it this way is you hear a lot of people talk about business is a long game. Like, don't expect to make any money the first three to five years. Do you agree with that approach? Like, would you instill in young founders to have that patience, or do you think that it is, hey, how do you. How can you grow as quickly and fastly as, you know as possible?

[Allison]

I think it's important to know that every business is different, and you got to figure out what works for your business and not try to just do what everybody else has done or try to follow a playbook. I think that's what we did really good at, Poppy, is we created our own playbook. We were of the first brands to get online on TikTok to really connect with our community. We had an incredible product.

[James]

And also before, you said that you had members on your board that were telling you not to post on TikTok, correct?

[Allison]

Yeah. I remember when TikTok first came out, we launched Poppy March 3, 2020. They were like, Allison, that is just for TikTokers and dancing people and people making recipe videos. And I was like, look, I'll do all of that. So I was dancing. I was making taco recipe videos. I was doing transitions with hoodies and acting like toefl, putting my kids in it. Steven was in it. Right. And I remember them being like, this is crazy. You're doing this. Why? Why? Instagram is where it's at. And I was like, there's this wild, wild west. And what I love about the two platforms, Instagram's like your website, but TikTok's really discover platform. Right. For brand awareness. That.

[James]

That's great right there. I like that a lot.

[Allison]

Yeah. And so it's like where people are going to discover you. It's not people following you. And so I was like, ah, this is where we're gonna really grow. And I remember I sat down one night, I told our founding story. I had just gotten out of the shower, my hair was wet, I was on the couch in. And it went absolutely viral. It has over 250 million views. We sold out every shelf, every grocery store. We did a hundred thousand dollars worth of sleeping on Amazon. And I just, it was, it finally opened everyone's eyes. They're like, oh, we see this. And we ended up moving all of our paid over to the platform. It completely changed the whole trajectory of our business. And that was us writing our own playbook. Right. And we were able to build a community that built crazy brand loyalty. And we were authentic, we were raw, we weren't high gloss. Like, we were messy, we were awkward and people related to that.

[James]

So that authenticity was important.

[Allison]

Yeah. And. And we had a good product and we had a good brand. Right. I think it's a combination. But also something that was really incredible was our team because I think a lot of entrepreneurs let their ego get in the way of growth and they won't bring on team early enough. And so for us, it was bringing on the right people early on to build it that had the experience that we didn't. So for example, I was running our entire marketing team. It got time to where we were like needing to buy super bowl ads and stuff. And I was like, well, I've never done that. We need help. So we brought in a cmo. He took over all of the traditional media, retail, planning, all that, and allowed me to move over and run the brand and the creative. And it really let me shine. At the end of the day.

[James]

Were there any hires that you all made that you regret looking back at? I mean, maybe that you learned like a valuable lesson from? Because I think that I know even within our organization of 60, like we've had a couple hires where we've been like, lesson learned there that this is what. Even though they may come off as this great person. Did you ever run into that at any point in time where you kind of made a mistake in the hiring process and maybe any lessons that you took from that.

[Steven]

Oh, yeah. So, yeah, so many.

[Allison]

Culture is huge.

[Steven]

Yeah, culture is huge. I feel like, like, friends, people that you hire, we tend to hire people that are kind of like us, or at least like our personality wise. Relatable. Yeah, like, personality wise for sure. And I would say, like, that's a big. Watch out. They don't have to be like you or have the same personality. They have to have, like, the same values that contribute to what the overall culture is. And so I think, like, early on we were hiring for personality. We wanted someone that had that grit, that startup mentality, the ability to run fast, but we weren't necessarily solving for what the true gaps in the organization were. And so I think that that's. That was a really big lesson for us is for me, I hired this SVP of ops and we're actually really good friends now, which is. Which is really interesting. But I didn't want to hire the guy because he was kind of drier. He was a little quieter. He almost seemed a bit standoffish. And I tell this to his face anyways, but he had a great skill set that we needed. And so I decided, okay, let's bring him in. And it ended up being the right. Right. The right move. And it just sort of like, shined a light on all of the people that I hired because they had that grit and that startup mentality, but not necessarily the right skill set. All of this comes down to at the end of the day, like, it does. They don't have to be the same person or you don't have to like them, but they have to have the same values. Because if they don't and you have a toxic culture, like, one bad apple really can spoil the bunch. And it's crazy. Even if that person is amazing at what they do, they're strategic, they hustle, they get it done. They're solving problems in the organization. If people don't like working with them, like, you've got a much bigger problem.

[Allison]

Fire them quickly.

[Steven]

Yeah, you've got a much better.

[Allison]

Get them out of there.

[Steven]

Yeah, we.

[Josh]

We actually. We have a rule where we don't. We do not hire friends and family because.

[Steven]

Except for you guys.

[Jack]

Except for us.

[Josh]

And the reason being is because, like, when you get into business with. With friends and family, it just makes it awkward and, like, it makes it harder to do that exact same thing that you said, which is to fire people quickly because you're like, you know what? I really like this person. I want to give them another chance. I swear they're going to change, but they just don't. Okay. Oftentimes people show their true colors, I'd say within the first two weeks of them working within the organization. And I want to go back to. It's not necessarily about this person being like me or whether I like them on the front end, but it's. They have a strategic skill set. And you said early on that you had someone that was willing to give you guys money, $200,000, and you guys said, you know what, this would be amazing, but they're just not the right fit. And when you went onto Shark Tank, you did get that strategic partner. And your brand wasn't originally called Poppy. This was someone who was a master in branding and attention. So I'm kind of curious, how did that shift kind of happen of like, look, we're actually gonna go all in on brand and kind of having someone else, you know, like help shift the direction?

[Allison]

Yeah. So after getting a deal on Shark Tank, we took nine months off the business to work on the rebrand. And our shark basically said to us, we love your founding story. Your liquid is fire, but your branding is shit. And it makes us.

[James]

What was the original name?

[Allison]

It was called Mother Beverage. And it makes sense. We were a two person show. We were spending most of our time manufacturing. We were not spending any time on the brand or marketing. And nor did we have have the capital to do it or the resources. So we get a deal. And really it was four of us for nine months working on this rebrand. And it was such a fun process because that was that piece. We went from the apple cider vinegar to we are soda for the next generation. And with that, we decided colored cans. Because if you are screaming soda, you have to be like color, vibrant, juicy, tasty, right? You don't want to just be like a white label, like Clean Girl Studio. That does not scream soda. We went in a 12 ounce can because we were going after big soda. We wanted to mimic them, right. And that. And then we were just intentional with our branding. We, we did illustrated fruit versus real fruit because nobody was doing that. So we wanted to be different than everyone. And then we made multiple mocks of different colors. We took it to the shelf, put it on the shelf. So we did a lot of work on who our consumer was. We were going after Millennial Moms, Gen Z, the Poppy girlies, quote, unquote. So then when we launched, we came really strong out of the gate. We who we are. We knew who our consumer was. But then as we Grew. We changed. Right? And I think a lot of people don't want to do the work to continue to change over time. And I think a great story is like, we had our root beer. It was in like a light colored packaging, and the liquid just wasn't good. And our consumer was telling us it was bad. They're like, we hate it. Every poppy flavor is amazing, but their root beer, and talking about our competitors and how much better it was. And Steven, it was like a personal thing of his. He was like, I have to change this. So we redid the packaging, we did a full burn book on how bad our old one was, and we launched our new one and made fun of ourselves. And it worked out so well online because everyone's like, oh my gosh, they acknowledged this. They changed and came out with something better versus, like, trying to do the packaging with the new burst and just being really cheugy and old school marketing. It was like we acknowledged it and listened to our consumer.

[Josh]

Something that I'm realizing and learning about from you guys is that a lot of founders let their ego get in the way of their own success. And throughout this process is you have to take your ego out of the picture. And it's not for me. It's what the consumer wants. I'm not serving this brand for me. It's for them. And I just think it's super interesting. Just learning and listening from you guys is just like, it's always just taking the feedback from the consumer and iterating from there.

[Steven]

Yeah. I always tell myself and Allison and the team let people call your baby ugly because, like, you have to have that. You have to have that. You can't just bury your head in the sand like you. You want. Like, whether it's product or whether it's a process or whether it's a new business vertical or strategy, whatever it is, like, you don't want to surround yourself with people that are just gonna say yes. You're like the greatest thing since sliced bread. Like, put people around you that are gonna call you on your stuff, like, your. Your product sucks. Honestly, like, I knew it for two years, it was just a really hard flavor to get. But like, like, please give me that feedback. That's. That's how we get better. And I think it's so. It's so critical. And, you know, I could. I could go on and on, but it's like being able to check your ego at the door and being able to take critical feedback and apply that in a positive way really provides opportunity for growth. Not easy, but very critical.

[Allison]

No, let's be real. We were not always this way.

[Steven]

No, no.

[Allison]

Like, when you first start a business, you don't. You don't start a business to have one. People tell you what to do.

[Steven]

Correct?

[Allison]

Right. So second, you take on money, you now have a board, right? There's. There's so much that comes with that. And so, like, oh, check your ego, right? So it's like a little bit of checking as you go. You. You start growing and bringing people on, and you become a leader. Check your ego, right? You. You start going out and growing. It's like, is this thing. So you're constantly kind of getting checked along the way, and you're almost having to learn through it. So it's like once those. You don't just not have an ego overnight. Like, let's be real. And so you gotta have to have

[Steven]

one to start a business.

[Allison]

You kind of have to have one to start. Kind of have to. You have to be delusional. So I think one another thing. Entrepreneurs do not know how to be leaders, right? You have to learn to be a leader by leading, by reading books, by getting mentors, by listening to podcasts. You don't know how to be a leader until you lead. And so all of these things can come through growth and all can coexist.

[Jack]

Earlier on the podcast, you had mentioned that you guys got in, you became entrepreneurs because you wanted that freedom. You wanted that freedom to be able to live your life on your own terms, right? But I feel that so many entrepreneurs or people that. That discover they have this great idea, you know, even speaking to entrepreneurs who might be, you know, they're in the kitchen, like, putting something together, they're just like, oh, I'm gonna start this business, and I'm gonna make all this money, and I'm gonna be able to do whatever I want. And it's not really typically the case with colored glasses. When you get into it, freedom is not the. Not the word that you. Maybe after the exit, but, like, if all goes well. If all goes well, which is so

[Allison]

small for most people to exit to, it's so rare.

[Jack]

But when you. When you're in the, like, the heart of the fire, there's no. You are married to this business. And so I wanted to ask, like, for that entrepreneur out there that might have that idea in their kitchen. And they're like, oh, I want to go all in on this. What for you guys was like, maybe the most unexpected thing. When you guys were building Poppy that came to you, whether it's a story or just something for you that just like, man, I never expected this. Like, I didn't realize that this is to where if I'm a founder, it's just like, you know, this is something you should realize.

[Allison]

I think, like, as an entrepreneur, a qu which you didn't ask this a question that I get lately is, did you ever believe you'd be here? Like, of course. Like, absolutely. Like, as an entrepreneur, you think that, but I think through the process, you don't realize how much work it is and how much sacrifice it is. But if you're having fun, it doesn't feel that way. So. So I almost look back on this. None of you guys are gonna get it. But it's like childbirth. Like, you forget the bad stuff and you only remember the good. And I think that's kind of like business, right? You forget all the bad if you're having fun. Now, if you're an entrepreneur and you are not having fun and it is all bad, you're probably not doing what you should be doing.

[Steven]

Wanting to be rich and have the freedom that comes from being rich typically isn't enough to get you through those really tough times. You say it all the time. It's like, I feel like such an important element of success and having fun along the journey is literally giving yourself the freedom to have fun. And I always say it's like, if you're doing something, if you're working on something that you hate, it's called stress. But if you're working on something you love, it's called passion. And so freedom is absolutely great. Being rich is absolutely great, but it really is. Do you love what you're doing? Because when you can't afford your mortgage or you're driving a POS 1995 Chevy pickup with no AC in Texas summers where it's 105 degrees, which all of

[Allison]

that happened to us.

[Steven]

You better love what you're doing if you want to get to the other side.

[James]

You had said a quote when we were outside in downtown Austin and I think it would be extremely valuable for you to share with our audience. It has to do with embarrassment. Could you share the quote and then I'll have a follow up question on top of that.

[Allison]

It. Yeah. So embarrassment is the number one explored emotion or no? Okay, so it's. Embarrassment is the number one unexplored emotion when it comes to success. And so I think as entrepreneurs, you kind of have to go out there and make a fool yourself if you want to be Successful. And. And I always say, like, every single person you've looked up to and admired has been embarrassed. They've put themselves out there. Every leader has wondered if they should be in that room as a leader. Every successful speaker on stage once shook first, right? And so I think that embarrassment holds a lot of people back because they're like, well, what if I say something? They think I'm stupid. You actually have to be okay with looking stupid for a while if you're an entrepreneur, and then you need to lean into it. So if you have embarrassment, that's a green light that you're probably growing as a person, you're stretching yourself and that you're onto something. So lean into the embarrassment. Go make a fool of yourself if you want to be successful. And then don't forget that feeling, because the second you stop, you stop. Having that feeling of embarrassment means you're getting comfortable and you're not pushing yourself. So don't get too comfortable either.

[James]

It takes us to what he said about you have to be comfortable not being comfortable. But the reason why I want to talk about this for a second is I think it's extremely important because I look at, you know, with our channel and our content, just as when you were in your kitchen making TikToks, you could have easily been like, oh, what if people from back home, what if my friends and family see this and they think that I'm cringy for posting content, Right? In our case, we had posted three, 400 times and had 50 followers. It's like, I can't even think about the amount of.

[Allison]

Explain the embarrassment you have when you're walking up to strangers on the street and them saying no to your face. It's hurt. It hurts, right?

[Jack]

100%.

[James]

But that's why I think it's so important for an entrepreneur or just somebody, whether they want to be a content creator, whatever it is that they want to do, to realize you have to think about the bigger picture, which is what you did. And so did you. You like what? Because it's easy to say, like, go be embarrassed. Go feel that emotion, right? Did you kind of have it instilled in you that, like, you weren't going to worry about what other people thought about you? Did you at one point worry about what other people thought? Or was it just one thing where you were like, you know what? In order for this to work, I'm going to have to just kind of do this. Like, I wanted to kind of get your. Your mindset, because people will always Ask me about, you know, how do you. How do you deal with rejection? Right. But it's like, I want to hear it from you, your perspective on being able to kind of go through that process.

[Allison]

And I think it's because I wanted to win and I would do whatever it took to win. And by winning, it can equal success. It can equal getting as many people as possible to try. Poppy. But I think with embarrassment comes. You're really embarrassed at first. Then working through that embarrassment comes, refining how that works and how those feelings are. Then you kind of get this clarity of like, wait, I'm not so embarrassed anymore. And then comes confidence. You know, I get this question all the time. Why are you so confident? How are you so confident, Allison? I was not always confident. I became confident by being awkward and failing and being embarrassed over and over again until I became confident in everything that you do. And that's true for everybody in anything, whether you're an entrepreneur or not. Is. Confidence is not overnight. It's those awkward micro moments that make you just like, cringe a little. Your hot face, your stomach drops. And then until you don't. Right. And so it's easier said than done, but it's. I wanted to win. I started a company because I was obsessed with getting as many people to try it as possible. And being cringy was the cost to that success.

[Steven]

I love that.

[Josh]

I have a question for you, Steven. Is your wife is an avid marketer, she's pioneering. She's burning shit down. And you're over here in the background, you know, putting the pieces together and building the infrastructure. One of the things that I'm kind of just curious for, more of a personal question for myself, is as you're scaling so rapidly, you know, things are breaking, which is a good thing. I'd honestly be more concerned if things weren't breaking. But how do you go about, like, setting the infrastructure up in the sense of, like, are you putting. What's your. Like when you're scaling? Is your approach to hiring, hiring people before you necessarily need them, or are you hiring people after the thing like this is broken and I genuinely can't have this on my plate anymore, and I'll put someone in. So as you kind of progress through your journey, I'm just kind of curious how your philosophy on hiring and putting people and systems in place kind of changed versus, like, having things are broken. I'm placing someone in, or I'm anticipating the need and I'm going to put someone in place.

[Steven]

Yeah. I've learned a lot through the whole journey. And I'll touch on a couple pieces. Like, when we started Mother Beverage, it was like, we just started and had some success. We're like, oh, my gosh, now we need. Now we need capital. Like, let's. Let's go out and raise some capital. Oh, my gosh, this is broken. Or I can't do this all myself. I don't have enough hours. Let's go find somebody. And Alison and I are actually working on a new project. And, like, we're doing it completely different. It's like, before we even got started, it's like, okay, how much capital. How much capital do we think we're going to need to raise? Like, what does dilution look like? How would we structure the board? What does our board of advisors look like? Like, I started with an org chart. Like, when we started Mother Beverage, there was no org chart. It was like we didn't know what we were doing. And oh, my gosh, okay, we've had some success. Now we gotta, like, figure it out. We need to, like, bring more people in. You sort of, like, hodgepodge it together, and it's like, held together with duct tape a little bit. And maybe you guys feel the same way, but it's like this. This time, it's before any one hire, I've got an org chart of, like, 35 or 40 people. And like, what are those strategic hires that you're going to put in place?

[Allison]

Before we even had a name, before

[Steven]

we even had a name. Literally, Literally, full on org chart of 35 or 40 people. And who are those strategic players that can. That are good for the business now but also have longevity in the business? So we're always looking for, like, these player coaches, someone that's strategic but is also, like, willing to roll up their sleeves and get it done. And so before we were, like, we were probably hiring six months too late. And now we're probably looking at it to say, hey, like, how can this person fill the need for at least. Least 18 months and making sure that we're staying at least 12 months ahead of the hires, maybe six months at the very least, to make sure that they're in the right place? Because a lot of the times it takes you longer to get that person to find that person, to get that person into the business, to get that person up to speed and to get that person to actually add value and contribute. And so you just want to get ahead of it.

[Allison]

At Poppy, though, with that process, we were maybe not hiring. We were hiring for now and not future. And I'm sure you guys have heard the saying, like, what's gotten you here won't get you there. And sometimes that's okay. Sometimes you can hire from now if you feel comfortable that you can fire people.

[Steven]

It's easier said than done, though.

[Allison]

It's easier said than done because, like,

[Steven]

even if they aren't your friend or family when you initially hire them, it's really, really tough. It's really hard. You get that conversation when you were like, listen, you were great from zero to $10 million. Or you were great from, you're not

[Allison]

great at 200 million.

[Steven]

Yeah, 10 to $25 million. And like, you helped us get here. You've been amazing, but we've simply outgrown you. That's a really tough conversation to have. And so we've navigated that a couple ways, which is interesting, and they're not easy. But like, we've actually, we've kept people around, demoted their titles, kept them at the same pay because there were so many intangibles that they also contributed to the business. Whether that was culture, camaraderie, like, whatever that was. But those are, those are really tough conversations.

[Allison]

And we gave 99% of people at Poppy Equity and it was like a four year vest. And as people got promoted, we would up their equity and we really just like valued our team. And so like, when we were winning to sell, like, they were part of that. So I don't know, like, how many millionaires did we make? I mean, there's like, people were calling us after the sell, crying. They'd bought a house, they'd bought cars, they bought their mom a house. So it's just like we, it was like, quote, unquote. I actually don't love saying like, like 40 people millionaires. And I just feel like it was. I don't love saying your employees are family because it's not family. You're there to do a business, but you can be friends and you can have respect and you can have conversations outside of work and build relationships at the end of the day. So I think we valued our team above all. And I think that that can go really far. And so then when we had those hard conversations of people that were there from the beginning, we ran into like six of them last week. And you run to each other and give each other hugs, right? They understood it. It, it was not necessarily like a bad thing because they also knew they'd probably outgrown the business.

[Steven]

I love that.

[James]

I wanted to ask about when we Think about a lot of modern day beverage companies in today's world. A lot of people, you know, maybe people that have even had success in the past, they'll want to go and attach themselves to an influential figure per se, to kind of be the head of that company. But a lot of those businesses end up failing. What do you see is the reason that even though people may be able to get a very sorry, influential person, you know, within their space, whether they're an athlete, whether they're an artist, actor, whatever it may be, why do those companies end up failing?

[Allison]

I think it's like celebrity ran companies. Is that what you're saying?

[James]

Or like the idea of either, you know, a celebrity going to partner up with somebody and start a beverage company, a coffee, you know, whatever.

[Allison]

I can speak to Poppy and say like Alex Earl, why that worked so well was because we worked with her when she was still in college and so we grew with her, right? It wasn't like we went to her when she had millions of followers. She was the hottest influencer creator out there. And we said, hey, can we give you a check? And you post Poppy? No, she had been posting us for years, so it was already organically part of her life. And we worked with her for three years between paid and equity. Right. It was a true partnership that she was an extension of our brand. It wasn't just like a pay to play play. And I think that actually celebrities and influencers and creators have gotten smarter. The equity is a riskier thing, but like, why not try it? They've seen success over and over again. So that's one leg of it. The second leg is like say Messi launching his Moss plus hydration company and now it's going out of business because they took a celebrity didn't probably have the right infrastructure on the business side. And it's failing because they thought that him as the fake case would take them really, really far. Right. Look, you can be a celebrity ran business, but you need the team behind you that actually knows what they're doing because that's it's just not going to work that way. If you just slap a celebrity to something, the consumer is smarter. It is a whole other world of authentic connection. And you know, if you can't get it to shelf and know how to market it to get it off shelf, you ruin retailer relationships. Like there's so much more to the ghost of business than the marketing and a celebrity backed.

[James]

But you said something that was like really important right there. And it actually reminds me of a Piece of advice that Todd Graves, the Raising Canes founder, had actually given to me in an interview that we did, which is that whenever he does partnerships or is, like, working with people, he loves it when it's like. Like, the person that is promoting the product authentically actually loves Raising Cane's chicken. And you mentioned that it was already a part of her life. So for her to kind of integrate that or promote the product was naturally or part of a, you know, maybe like a paid gig where it had to be in a video and whatnot, the more organically that it can appear and come off that, like, she's just drinking this. Like, it's like, it's. It's not even. She's not forced to kind of promote it per se. So that was important when you were.

[Allison]

Well, Jake Shane, he's also just having such a moment and such an incredible person. He posted this when he had 90,000 followers. Literally, like, was drinking Poppy in almost every video. And so I always give this advice to businesses. Find your next Alex and Jake. Don't just, you know, think that you need to go really big really soon. Right. And I think Poppy was really good at finding those, like, early stars and, like, growing with them. And then we've supported them and redone our contracts and continue to work with them. It wasn't like we just worked with them for a year and then said, oh, you're big. We've. We've used your audience. We're moving on. No, we were also good partners on our end, and I think brands lose that side of it as well.

[Steven]

Yeah. I think, like, the size of the content creator and influencer and the size of the business has to be. There has to be some sort of. Of, like, alignment there. I feel like it was really interesting. We did a partnership with Jennifer Lopez, like, massive icon. Super year one, year one of Poppy.

[James]

How much did you have to pay her?

[Steven]

We paid her $250,000.

[James]

Was it for, like, just like a post on social1?

[Steven]

1 social post and like, maybe something.

[Allison]

We had one social post and it was like a year of usage on

[Steven]

a little video clip or something.

[Allison]

On a little video clip and use on the website or something. And it was. Was very exciting. Like, it's Jennifer Lopez. Right. But our. We weren't even in, like, half the stores in the nation, so people could even, like, find us. We gained zero followers.

[Steven]

Yeah.

[Allison]

Because it was like a celebrity. It wasn't like an authentic connection. And it was a really good lesson that we learned. Year one.

[Steven]

She's like, Holding a Poppy. She's got, like, Dolce and Gabbana on. She's got, like, three other brands that she's, like, promoting in this, like, music video. And it just. Yeah, it just felt. It just felt like a. It felt transactional, I guess, is the biggest way. And I feel like it was because she's got, like, how many hundreds of millions of followers across all of her platforms or whatever it is. Like, we had, like, 20,000 or, like 30,000 followers at this time. And so, like, how does that. How does that relationship really come about if it's not transactional? And I think people can just. People can.

[Allison]

Consumer smarter.

[Steven]

Yeah, people can sense that.

[Josh]

That is so interesting. I've never heard anyone say that before of the brand and the creator, if they're doing a partnership, has to be aligned in terms of just kind of like, recognition.

[James]

Awareness, for sure.

[Josh]

And awareness. Because then it just. It seems almost in a way to where it is strictly just transactional. It's like, oh, this is just another paid ad versus, like, this is actually a company I actually personally endorse. It's like a completely different style of messaging. When you're looking at creators, like, doing deals and, like, when you look at that deal in particular, did you notice a big difference? Like, did you notice an up. Uptick of sales and, like. Or what was kind of like the biggest thing you guys kind of learned

[Allison]

from doing that partnership just to not do it again? I don't think we were.

[Steven]

Don't let a quarter million dollars of cash. No.

[Allison]

We didn't work with any more celebrities until we were a big company. Like, basically the year before we sold, we did an incredible partnership with Post Malone, and it was because we were actually friends with his manager, Post. He went through, like, a whole transformation. And Steven texted him, and I was like, hey, he's looking great. And he's like, yeah, I introduced him to Poppy. He lost all this weight, stopped drinking soda. It was like. I was like, this is so cool. And then he went on a bunch of podcasts, and he was talking about it, and I was like, okay, we did. And then it was really successful because, like, he was drinking it. He loved the product. There was, like, organic conversation. He, you know, it was this whole thing, and the retailers loved him, and he was having a moment, but we were huge. It was the year before we sold, so it can work. But, like, I think this is a good lesson that people can hear. And then I think one more piece on this that I think is really important is it can be Successful in looking like. Take skims, for example. You have Kim, who's iconic, she's doing skims, and her co founder is Yanza and Emma Greed. And they operationally are incredible. They know how to run a business and they are running a business in partnership with the. The creative of what Kim is doing. And it is a wild billion dollar company. So if you can find that piece of the operational side, it can be successful. But that's on almost the key piece.

[Steven]

Yeah, they've got to be all in too.

[Allison]

Yeah.

[Steven]

I think, like, as we go back to Moss, it's like, how much was like, he's got a million other things going on as well. And so it's like incentives had to have to be properly aligned with all of like the boring back of the house stuff to make sure that the business is successful.

[James]

You guys have been married 12 years when you guys were building the company. Right. You have three kids, you were pregnant at a pivotal point in time during building the company, and you built a billion dollar company. I want to talk about balance first. Second, does balance exist when trying to build a billion dollar company? Especially in your case, you're balancing a relationship, you're balancing children, you're balancing the grind of trying to grow the company. What is your perspective on balance?

[Allison]

When we were building Poppy, there was absolutely zero balance. But let me just tell you, I loved every second of it because I liked the chaos. I like working hard. And I think it's something a lot of people don't talk about. And there's a few stories. I remember I had my. My second. It was right after. No, it was after my third. It was during the year, fastest growing year we were at. And I was on a call with our PR agency. They're like, allison, this is not a good look. You're on a call three days after you gave birth. And I said, why? I want to be here. She's like, oof, I don't know about that example. And I said, my child's just fine sleeping. I will breastfeed on the zoom. Like, I don't know what to tell you. Like, I want to be here and I'm perfectly fine. And I saw the owner of the PR agency three months later, and she was pregnant for the first time at 42 and said, I never thought I could do that until I talked to you. And now she has three kids. And I just think that, like, sometimes we all think we need to have balance in life. You can figure out what is that balance for you if you need to Work out, do that. If you like to work hard, do that. And I think we should stop shaming each other and having this work life balance. It's like, have it now, now, next company that we're working on, we've earned that right to have more balance. And absolutely, I will have more balance. And another piece on that is like that balance I had to learn with the kids piece is the non negotiable. So when I am home, I am present. We put the tablets down, we put our phones down and we play with our kids. And I think if you find that you just do that in your present that like you being away for five days, they're like, oh, hey mom, where were you? Like, cool, give me a hug. And they like run and go play football. Right? So I think you have to figure out what your balance is, but stop shaming us if we like to work hard.

[Steven]

Yeah, it's like, what is the purpose of balance? Like, people are like trying to achieve balance because they believe that's where happiness and joy resides, is in balance. And I think everybody has a different journey on what brings them joy and what brings them happiness. And so I think you've just. Every season of life is going to be different for each person. But I think it's like, go find what makes you happy, happy and brings you joy and go do that and don't worry about what, what anybody else is doing. You know, for us, like she said, we had a lot of fun doing what we were doing. And so it didn't, it didn't feel like work. We were, we were happy and, and we had a lot of joy in doing it. But like I think as you said in this, in this next season, and it's also like having that, having that freedom which we now have, the financial freedom that we now have like that goal and desire to do that, that was also like something that we felt like would bring us joy and happiness of, of attaining that goal. And, and so now that we've attained the goal, I think that there's less pressure on us. And what brings us happiness and joy now is being able to still build and create and work really hard and challenge ourselves. But it's also to like, challenge ourselves within the four walls of our home and how we show up for each other and how we show up for our kids as well.

[Allison]

It was so funny the other day, some, some founder said to me and Steven were sitting there and he's like, oh, I just am so into longevity. I shut the computer at 4, I cold plunge. I sauna, I work out.

[Steven]

And I was like, I was like,

[Allison]

oh, my gosh, when was your exit? He's like, oh, I, I've not exited. I'm like, makes a lot of sense. Like, I'm like, it's not gonna work. Four o'. Clock. Like, what are you doing? Like, we, we both walked away from that. We were like, he's not gonna probably ever exit.

[Steven]

Yeah, for sure. Like, I mean, it's like I, I, I say it all, all the time. Like, if you, like, if you want what others can't have, like, you have to do what others won't do. And, like, are you willing to do that? And, and if you're not, like, you know, you need to be okay with not having, having all of these other things that, that people want. But as we talk about, like, working hard and, like, being challenged, and I think, like, balance sort of plays into that as well. Like, oh, I've got to have, like, time to relax and do all of these other things. Like, ask yourself. And I asked myself, like, what are the times in my life that, that I feel the most proud of, that I've had the most growth from. And those are typically the most challenging and most difficult seasons of your life that you've been able to overcome that maybe didn't allow you to have balance in the moment. But I think showing up, working hard, trying your best, and overcoming those really challenging moments are like, what have been a huge source of joy and confidence for me. And so, I don't know. That's one of the things I focus on. I like to share with other people. It's just like, work hard, and you'll probably be happier for doing it if you're working hard on something you love.

[Jack]

I have a question for both of you guys. So when I look at your story, I see you had a great founder story. There was, was a clear problem that you guys were able to come up with a solution for. You had a, you had a great product. You know, you were able to find some distribution early on with the Whole Foods Connection. Eventually, you guys developed a really great brand, and you, you found a really savvy marketing strategy. Yeah, that's, it's, it's almost like, it's hard to, like, most, most people don't get to that point. Uh, and oftentimes, while we're building this journey, I like to think back to, like, you know, I've started My first, I'm 25 now, but I started my first business at 18. I'm like, man, Like, I don't believe in, like, regrets or changing anything because, like, I believe everything that got me to this moment today is, like, what made us who we are. But I almost want to ask for each of you guys, if you had, if you could be face to face with yourselves when you first started the business, when you first had that idea in the kitchen, and when you decided to go all in, if you had 30 seconds to be able to have a conversation with yourself, what would you say? What would you tell yourself in that, that moment?

[Allison]

Mine is that fun is fuel for business and that you have to continue to have fun. Don't take yourself so serious. I think early days or early career people are always, like, on the grind. Like, I gotta graduate college to get a job. I got. Once you start a business, I gotta sell this company. I, you know, gotta start a family. Like, we're always, like, working towards a goal and we forget to have fun. And even, you know, maybe that was the balance that I had at Poppy is we still went to ACL every year and went to festivals. Um, we giggled in meetings. And it was the culture at Poppy of that, like, fun piece. And I think fun is the key to not burning out.

[Steven]

Like, I love that so much. And I even want to talk about, like, your example of, of, like, having a kid. I feel like at so many corporations or organizations, like, that's not celebrated. And I think that we genuinely cared about all of the people that we were working with. So, like, if they were training for a marathon or if they were, like, starting a family, like, all of those things were talked about and so normal within the organization that, like, while we weren't family, we had, like, so much camaraderie and respect for. For one another and their pursuits. Like, outside of the four walls of the organization, if I could go back, there's so many cringe moments and of things that I would go back and do differently. But I agree with you. Where it's just like, listen, we're here where we are, and there were really great opportunities for growth. But what I would say is it's okay to fail and it's okay to not know everything. I felt like I had to know everything. I had to figure out how to do it all on my own. I had a really asking for help, and that's probably the biggest piece of advice that I'd go back and tell myself.

[James]

We'd like to end these podcasts off with two quick questions for our guests. I'll start and Jack will end us off here. I talked about this earlier, but Alison, Stephen, if all of us in this room were to pass away tomorrow and you could leave one more message with the younger generation, what would that be? What's your last message to the younger generation today?

[Allison]

For me, it's the American dream is live and well and we are proof.

[Steven]

Live your life with no regrets. I think show up if you have a dream. Do whatever it takes to make it happen.

[Jack]

And for both of you guys, you know you exited a company $2 billion, like less than 0.00001% of people ever get a chance to do that. For you guys, how do you want to be remembered?

[Allison]

Exiting my company is the largest exit of a female founder in beverage history. So to set that legacy that other females can do what I did I think is really impactful.

[Steven]

The legacy that I want to leave is you can build a great business and you can be really successful and you can do really great things, but it never gives you the permission to be a jerk. And I think that I want to be remembered as someone that was a good human that was generous with their time, but also built really cool businesses.

[James]

You guys have amazing advice and this was an incredible podcast.

[Allison]

Thank you.

[James]

Thank you both. And for everybody watching right now, be sure to like and subscribe for amazing content, interviews and the biggest business owners in the entire world. Coming to the Hard Knocks podcast, we're going to put the link down in the description to the handles for both Alice and Steven. That way everybody can continue to follow along with your guys's journey. Anything else that people need to be aware of coming down in the the pipeline for you all. What's going on in the near future for you guys?

[Allison]

Stay tuned for September of this year. Something coming soon.

[Steven]

September 2026.

[Allison]

Let's go.

[James]

Baby's coming soon. Be sure to everybody be sure to follow along with them. And we're also going to put the link down in the description to the School of Mentors, which is the number one most powerful entrepreneur, community and network in the entire world that we launched to connect you directly with the eight, nine and ten figure entrepreneurs that we interview every single week on the School of Hard Knock. So we can't wait to see you on the inside. With that being said, we'll see you in the next episode.